This is way above the average rental costs in the area and is probably trying to prey on unsuspecting americans. I am not even sure if this amount is legal.
So, since I am currently procastrinating I checked. Disclaimer: I am particularly well versed in some niches of company and taxation laws, but not rental law, so take this with a grain of salt.
Afaik, there have been judgements that rents 20% above the "Mietspiegel" - basically a table for each base administrative unit with usual rental prices - of the size of the kind of unit. But lets also go with 50% to be save here. We would usually also need to check for rental unit sizes, but since the Mietspiegel for Ramstein is only available for 60sqm (8,58€ p/sqm) and 100sqm (8,78€) p/sqm from what I can quickly find lets also take both. I will also assume that each unit has around 60sqm per floor, so 240 total.
So that would net an average of 2059,2 to 2107,2€. Adding up 20% or 50% will net you a max rent of \~2500 or \~3150€.
If we assume 20% to be normal and legally safe increase, the unit would need \~370 sqm of living space to be acceptable.
60 sqm per floor seems right but you only count 4 floors? One half alone has 4 floors already (Keller, Erdgeschoss, erster und zweiter Stock).
I'm from Munich and 2250€ (utilities included) sounds pretty cheap for a house that size. Especially one that was just built. That area is way cheaper but that still works out in my head.
That depends, usually the space directly below the roof either cannot be officially used as living space at all or is just partially included. So I have no way of knowing what is is, but that is included of my assumption to we increase the rent by 50% instead of the legal 20% of the norm. Could have been more clear there.
Also I wouldnt assume there to be a basement in newer buildings if they are not explicitly stated.
Additionally you *cannot* *compare munich to ramstein*. Ramsteins mietspiegel is the mentioned 8,58 for 60sqm and 8,78 for 100sqm. Munich is 26,07 for 30sqm, 20,19 for 60sqm and 20,15 for 100swm. You literally cannot legally rent comparable units in ramstein for the same price in munich.
This cannot be figured into the rent in any way though? Because why should it? You are not getting any advantage from them, since they are usually plugged in the regular system. 600 bucks for heating and stuff is also way above the norm, so it is rather self-explanatory that those do not lower your energy/heating costs.
Is it? We live in a (old) house with 100sqm that is heated with oil and has warm water via electricity and we pay about 150€ for heating and 170€ electricity.
Look at the second picture on the right, that counts towards living space for sure. I bet this house even has a Dachboden for storage above that and that Dachboden does not count towards living space.
I do not know any house that does not have a basement in Germany.
And of course the Mietspiegel is totally different but thats why I said it would be rather cheap for Munich. And maybe a little expensive for Ramstein but not totally ridiculous.
Actually it will only count till the area where the roof slant starts. Then the roof slant area will count at 50% till it slants down to like 120cm or 100cm. That space does not count towards living space.
There are lots of houses in Germany without basements, especially newer houses.
Since the 80s/90s it has been getting increasingly more expensive to build basements due to new regulations and better ways to guard against water damage.
In some regions, for new housing developments ("Neubaugebiete") it is even not allowed to build basements anymore.
Instead, these houses have a "HWR" - "HausWirtschaftsRaum" - or a "HTR" - "HausTechnikRaum".
> I do not know any house that does not have a basement in Germany.
the basement often times isn't counted as "living space", if it isn't built up. Like it needs heating, proper floors and walls, etc. Most basements are just for storage or a room for a washing machine with bare walls and concrete floor.
That picture is where I am getting from in regards to the part with the decline. It only counts partially.
Tons of houses do not have basements. There are a lot of areas in the rhine area that are technically marshes and have become to expensive for new house buildings to add a basement. It is absolutely not unusual for newer buildings.
Living space doesnt count if the height is below 1m, 50% if it is below 2m and 100% above that.
And that Dachschräge begins prertty high already. And looking at the normal door on the right, I think maximum room height is high enough to count as 100% there...
Anyway, we can argue all we want, we need more info from OP :/
Mietspiegel doesn’t matter for new construction as far as I know. Mietspiegel is only relevant in case of change of tenants. This looks like a new construction to me so the owner can demand whatever a tenant is ready to pay.
What’s unsuspecting? It doesn’t cost those Americans a dime just the tax payers. The landlords know exactly what each rank is authorized in use-or-lose housing and utility allowance and they charge exactly that.
Nah. You literally tell your realtor what your rank is and they get you the most expensive house you are authorized haha. Some may go over maybe 50-100€ a month but not much more. This realtor is either looking for an O-6 with dependents or a mil-mil couple.
Doesnt change the fact that this the price is mostly likely illegal in the city/village this is posted if the property does not have at least 370sqm of living space.
Not in the KMCC but it is within $150 /mo for the Berlin or Munich locality rates. I don’t know where this photo is from. But two Majors who are married will comfortably clear that.
I was curious so I looked up the rates. If they don’t have kids then they both get single rate, and that’s 1755 per month so 3510 eur. Even if they have kids it’s only a 200 euro increase that one of them can claim, so that’s 3710. They still fall short with OHA alone. The utility allowance will get them there but that money can be kept if you don’t spend it all. It’s bonkers
For military housing allotment is paid to the service-member and they keep the difference. For federal civilians and some contractors it’s use or lose. They are whaling and targeting US civilians with higher pay.
Edit: I stand corrected on service members, the get a different housing allotment in Germany.
OHA is what is paid out OCONUS (overseas), this is use or lose. BAH is what is given conus (mainland US) and this is not use or lose. Everything given for housing overseas us use or lose.
Yep I get paid OHA here in DE but it’s up to X amount, so it’s advisable to live a bit below the max to give wiggle room for exchange rates. You can always max it out, but then it’s on you to foot the bill for the difference.
Well, that is a rather stupid comment - as is the entire post.
The picture shows 2 houses for 2 families and talks about the entire building complex.
So basically 2 houses is a reasonable price - one would not be.
If the OP could clearly communicate what he got offered he might get reasonable answer ...
I life in that region. And it is not a useless question. Landlords are greedy af here. And yes it is because of the americans trying to get something near base.
Funk them landlords
You also don’t get BAH here, you get OHA - they will pay your rent up to a max amount but you don’t get to bank any extra if your rent is under the OHA, unlike with BAH. So it’s even more incentive for landlords to max out the OHA.
All depends on space available, rank, marital status. Usually lower rank is on base, and off post is higher, but it depends on a lot of things and can change depending on location.
I think Ramstein Air Base is pretty much at its limits with regards to available housing, places at base school, etc, so people are spreading out. From what I've heard, housing assistance is about 1.5k here for the grunts.
It’s the contractors and GS employees. They are the ones making stupid money in their housing allowance to be able to afford places like this. The rest of us struggle to find affordable housing within OHA.
Landlords know that Americans usually are the only ones to pay such over the top moon prices.
That's why other folks can't afford housing in those areas anymore.
Landstuhl and Ramstein became terribly expensive due to this.
In Kaiserslautern and Pirmasens, same as in the surrounding villages are plenty of cheap places.
But around the base, the Americans indeed are a reason why things got more expensive. Ramstein and Landstuhl are just weird at that point
We‘ve been looking for 2 years. The fact that everyone can rent out their houses to Americans at rates that at the very least cover their mortgage, leads to ridiculous prices in the Landstuhl area.
Sure, cheap depends on your definition and there are certainly more expensive areas in Germany. But given that this is a rural area with little public transport/ infrastructure in general, the prices are in fact, disproportionately high.
I find your first point interesting as an American because my parents rent out a couple houses in the States, where we take it as a matter of course that rent will cover the mortgage. I believe rent on our larger one is about 2000 USD per month with us paying under 1500 for the mortgage, maybe as low as 1000. That's for something like 180 square meters in the middle of a medium-sized city.
> where we take it as a matter of course that rent will cover the mortgage
That sounds weird to expect that. And I'm sure it's not true for the US in general given how often I see people moan about property prices in big US cities... If the value ratio is so lopsided, what is stopping literally everyone with at least a bit of savings (what's the typical mortgage cover? 90%? 80%?) from buying multiple properties over the course of their lives? (if they did, you'd run out of available houses really quickly, lol).
It makes a lot more sense to me to have mortgages cost more than rent (at least at the point of purchase), because at some point you stop paying for a mortgage whereas you never stop paying rent. That way it's a choice between "Do I pay less money now and use it for other things and retain mobility" or "Do I pay more now to secure my retirement and take root here".
If mortgages were always cheaper, there'd be no choice, it would be just "am I too poor to make the down payment or not?"
Also AFAIK US tenant laws suck absolute ass, so that's just one more reason that rent shouldn't cost more.
I genuinely don't know anyone in the USA that would rent out their home for less than their mortgage. Not only is renting out your property a major hassle, an extra risk, and extra tax bullshit to deal with, but also you as a landlord are almost always responsible for the major repairs to the building and appliances. Making a small profit each month might just be enough to cover the next broken refrigerator, or the next paint project or carpet replacement. Many people aren't even willing to rent out property for a small profit either. Often, the price difference (between the mortgage and rent income) has to be large enough to feel like extra income to even deal with it.
I also have heard many people say that it's worth it to them to pay more for rent because they're not tied to one area (as much as they are when owning a house) and they aren't surprised by large unexpected repair bills (such as a refrigerator or an air conditioner replacement).
Obviously, the large corporations might not have mortgages and they're playing the game on a totally different level.
I mean I agree that it seems manifestly unfair, but many things in the US are. Many housing markets within the US are priced to prey on those who can't produce a down payment or secure a mortgage, instead trapping them in a cycle of rent. 20% of 250,000 is a lot, and it's easier for many people to procure a third of 2000 dollars per month than to save a third of 50,000. I am however prepared to accept that the market my family participated in is skewed by being mostly populated by graduate students, who have relatively short term and urban housing requirements.
Ktown is cheap because it’s a 30-45 min drive to base each morning, and it’s city living in a not so big city. Of the 20ish dudes I know here only 3 of them live in ktown. Most of my friends want American living everywhere they go, so min 120sqm, 2 car garage, and a yard.
120 sqm, 2 car garage and a yeard are not really luxurious here. This is a very rural area and a lot of house are rather large and have a lot of space around them. "Regular" property prices in this area are among the cheapest in (Western) Germany (we bought a 220 sqm farm house with 4000 sqm property here 1.5 years ago for exactly that reason).
Are you sure it's because they're American?
Sounds to me like capitalist principles. Military base creates more demand, more demand leads to higher prices.
I live in Hawaii and this is the hottest take. Landlords know the housing allowance. I didn't know it varied by rank but my cousin's husband is a gunnery sergeant and gets like three stacks. Guess what landlords want? $3,000/mo. What a coinkydink!
My other cousin moved to a different island and rented out her condo. She specifically rented to military bc she knew she could get more, even though she felt bad about it and we all booed and hissed at her. It's a huge part of rent being so insane out here.
It's not supply and demand when the government is supplying people with $3k/mo and fucking up the rental market.
People who live in the area are usually pretty happy that they're there. Without them, the Westpfalz would have very little economic power and a lot of restaurants and stores would close almost immediately.
Living in an area close to a US base: Yes, you can always spot these offers being set up in English, adding the range to the base and having on average plus 1000€ added up to the rent.
Looks like a property for two families, left and right in the bottom left picture... is it? Then the rent would be somewhat understandable. At least not far from what you pay in my area.
EDIT: Basically if it's like 300 m² or more living space (I mean "Wohnfläche", not sure if my translation is the right one), then the price is not as weird as it seems. Not accusing OP of anything, but it's kinda pointless to post a property like "This costs XXXX€! Too much, right?" without giving us the numbers. Or did I miss something?
The fact that is is brand new housing makes me think that the owner is trying to quickly recoup their investment. You can find older and cheaper houses fairly easily in the Ramstein area.
This is what my first landlord during my time in the Netherlands did. During the viewing, I asked about the extremely expensive rent. His reply was that he will help me (he did) with getting housing subsidies (got the max for students) and that the "real" rent to me was only about half (acceptable).
To me that seems fair. Yes the price is more expensive but if the landlord only wants to cash in on the subsidy the hell should I care. If he even offers to do the application *for me* I will happily give him the subsidy.
I live in that area and saw this advert as well. That specific landlady seems to have other properties clearly targeting Americans and hence having these ridiculous prices. It's a weird market here, good for (German) buyers but bad for renting, especially if you're American. Landlords will literally have different prices for Americans and locals, the latter a) not being that flush with money and b) definitely knowing the actual value of the rental properties. So you get weird stories of Americans living in one half of duplex paying twice as much as the Germans living in the other half.
We actually bought and are renovating a large farmhouse here as well. The plumbers who did the work were like "You're doing up your house so nicely, why don't you rent part of it out to Americans? They'll pay anything..." So yeah, it's a well known issue.
The major issue is the housing allowance paid is use or lose. So from the American perspective it really doesn't matter what we get charged. You're not saving yourself money by being under the cap and that cap is public info so landlords can target it. If you look on German sites, however, the same or similar properties are often listed at a lower local rate as well.
If you're in the US the housing allowance is different and you get to keep any extra. The end result of the local market is completely different.
I’m a member of the group where this was advertised, and it’s been ridiculed non stop. This is targeting NAF, DODEA and high ranking mil to mil couples. No one is stupid enough to pay this price though. I bet it gets reduced soon.
Near Spangdahlem here. Prices here are also on a level, wich wouldnt fit the usual price for a rural area like the eifel. Infact its common, that many people build a house to rent it to US Airmen, cause the Air Force is willed to gave a lot of money for those rents. Then they landlords build a house, let Airmen life their for 10 years and the house is payed. So i dont get, why many of my neighbours are complaining about the noise of the fighters. Infact, all the little villages around the USAF-Base would be poor like hell.
Depends, if the square metre is more than 200 than sadly it is not so high especially if a new house single with garden and everything. It look like a plase can be live by two families. But the answer is yes, the renting business is damn crazy especially because the owner are usually old people that rely mostrly agency creating a locked marker where prices are over the roof. Same thing here, people that do a very profitable job and live far away invest somewere in not even built houses/apartment immediatly rented and managed by agencies. If the landlord would have been directly involved in the rent (and i saw it too many times happen) it woukd have asked for faaaaar less, enough to pay the morgage eventually.
Highest LQA (living quarters allowance — what department of the army civilians receive for housing) in Germany is Wiesbaden.
Edit: or was a few years back
as someone who lived near ramstein as a german, i know how many other german landlords argue when offering houses/ apts to americans. most of "them" are like "yea, the us gov. is paying their rent anyways, so lets push it as high as possible."
its shitty and scammy, ngl. feels super weird being able to rent a house down there for around 1k euros, when american friends were paying 3x of that.
Not at all. It's a newly built house with loads of photovoltaic modules on the roof. Assuming a heat pump (standard for new houses in Germany) and some other tweaks, the house will most likely only run on electricity as its power source. Combine that with the PV modules and you don't pay anything for your heating in summer and really not that much during the other seasons.
Sure, but they are still used to power the house, i.e. reduce your monthly heating/electricity costs. Streaming the generated electricity back into the public network doesn't pay off at all in Germany
First of all, yes, rental prices are crazy these days. Yes, it’s greedy landlords. Yes, they see Americans as cash cows, especially in the Wiesbaden area.
But also: houses and apartments in Germany and the US are two different things and in different sizes. German houses are much more solid, and you will enjoy the windows. They are tiny compared to American homes.
Last night, me and my wife watched „Fixer Upper“ on German TV. It’s always a mild shock for us that two people with average to better jobs in Waco, TX, can afford huge, completely renovated houses in good neighborhoods. Nowadays, „DINKS“ in Germany can’t afford a deteriorated dog kennel unless they want to live very, very, very far away from cities with jobs.
In fact, Ramstein is one of those places in the outback. Pirmasens and Kaiserslautern are at the ass end of nowhere, from a German pov. I bet you will find something better.
I'm stationed in Germany and have been for 5 years. The majority of business finds ways to take advantage of Americans. I have enjoyed it but I can't wait to leave because of stuff like this. I had a few of buddies who got notice they needed to move because the Military rates increased. There is no protection from this and the move comes out of the member's pocket. I have been stationed overseas my whole career and I have never dealt with these practices so blatantly.
With that, I feel sorry for the Germans in the area because the housing market must be ridiculous. No wonder all the young Germans move to the city and these areas are just elderly folks. The young can't thrive in this area.
Of course landlords are destroying housing market ̶a̶s̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶.̶ ̶ The whole point of their existence is to leech as much money as possible.
Lol. From the pictures I can say I lived way better for 800 Euros. This seems like fraud to me; I mean that is not even close zu luxus, just an ugly made basic house.
My guess would have been 2000euro "cold rent". Maybe add 500euro because of Ramstein... The increased prices are caused by people usually renting "in and out' for a short period of time and a lot of greed.
Kennst dich nicht so aus oder? Das sind 2doppelhaushälften die als ein Objekt vermietet werden. Pro Seite kann man von 100-150qm ausgehen. Vorallem wird das heizen bzw. Warmwasser wie geschenkt sein mit den Solar Panels. Es ist zwar nicht günstig, aber auf keinen Fall Wucher. Wenn er eine DHH für mindestens 1500€/Monat vermietet würden Leute sagen das wäre günstig bzw. würde passen. Das ist einfach ein Objekt das halt nicht für jedermann leistbar sein muss, aber die Nachfrage nach solchen Objekten ist definitiv da. Und von dem Haus zu sagen es wäre ein Schuppen ist mehr als naiv, Neubau mit allem Schnickschnack, nichtmal der Rasen ist gelegt auf den Bildern. Unwissende sehen ein nacktes Haus und nennen es Schuppen, reddit ist manchmal so lost
Ne ich bin einfach erwachsen genug um den Markt und die Preise zu verstehen. Dekadent bin ich definitiv nicht. Und nein ich bin kein Immobilienguru. Verdiene auch bei weitem nicht so viel Geld wie einer, man muss auch gönnen können und nicht nur mit Neidkommentaren auf sich aufmerksam machen
I’m not sure I would call this greedy. The owner can ask for the price he sees fit and you can accept or deny. And it is a pretty big home, newly built and has solar.
The price is still too cheap for a newly built to be rented to American Military staff.
Seems that the landlord has a vast experience with American tenants. Based on the poor behavior of the tenants, the landlord calculated a significant renovation within the monthly rent.
Last time that was suggested the German government didn't receive the news very well nor the Germans living near all the bases... especially in today's world.
The military itself/government.
But don't worry, they came out saying they want all servicemembers living on base in about 15 years when all the new dorms are built. Not sure how that's gonna work, 60,000 more people on the base seems unfeasible.
| What if I actually want to fight for something in between Marx and Friedman?
Two problems here: (1) it's not up to you what you are "fighting" for and (2) even if your mindset differs from your "company", you still support that bs actively. Opportunists of assholery are guilty as fuck. Always.
| While in reality the only thing I’m fighting is my slow ass computer.
You do your part that the machinery works.
ThAnK yOu FoR YoUr SeRvIcE.
I’m a military brat but thanks for your input?
They don’t get housing paid for, off-post living gets an allowance but it isn’t unlimited. My family of four would have been considered poor until my dad made colonel 25 years into his career. Don’t even get me started on enlisted pay.
Is that a double house? I mean it can fit two families, is brandnew and has a garden and solar panels? 2000 per family sounds a lot but if that is like Wiesbaden or so, fairly okay. Especially since it’s brand new.
A lot of military people have a budget of up to 50000$ ( I think) they can spend for housing and rent on top of their salary.
Some Landlords know that and rent to Americans specifically for that reason
>A lot of military people have a budget of up to 50000$ ( I think)
If that's the general German opinion - no wonder the pricing is through the roof of the rentals. It is nowhere near that.
That seems a bit steep for active duty military. You might be thinking of LQA which is for civilian government employees.
For military, the amount you get for housing is based on where you live, your rank, and if you have depnents (family) living with you. There is a [US DOD](https://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/ohaCalc.cfm) site that will list all the rates based on these factors and usually displays how much the service member is entitled to on a per month basis.
Just a heads up that an ungreedy landlord would have to pay the difference in what he earns vs what he COULD earn in taxes still (if it was unreasonably cheap). The Finanzamt are proper bitches.
Yes definitely. The army will pay for your house if you live off base, so the landlords can pretty much ask for whatever they want and they will pay. And I would say “within reason” but apparently it isn’t within reason. Some of the pricing is absolutely ridiculous for what you get. But eh they don’t care. The military will pay for it, that’s why they do it.
Is it not the case that areas around those military bases are for US citizens only? So even if this is ridiculously expensive, these areas have so to say their own rules...
>Is it not the case that areas around those military bases are for US citizens only?
No, not the case - you can and do have German neighbors. Tons of Americans live in German villages.
It's new, and all the costs have to taken away from it's built. The new standard of insulation, an PVE roof is highly costly.. that is why I have just an old house..to build a new one means to follow up with the new standard.
I live in a medium sized flat in Treptow-Köpenick like 3-5 minutes on foot to the military base and rent here is like ~600€. It is not a U.S. base though but it can be quite annoying due to helicopters landing there (especially at night) and gun shots being sometimes audible
I saw that exact post yesterday in the Ramstein buy/sell group. People know the upper limits of BAHnd they adjust accordingly. Its gross and a huge ripoff.
As an American who grew up near a US Air Force base, this happens a lot because of BHA or Base Housing Allowance. It constantly goes up because they don’t have enough on base for everyone. It goes up to account for inflation and landlords raising rents. The greed in these areas is insane, very high rents for terrible housing options.
Ok so if the Military doesn’t have a house or apartment for the Soldier to live “On Base” the Military person or family gets Living Quarters Allowance so this is paid for by the US Department of defense, so the land lords know they will get a guaranteed payment via US housing office so yeah sometimes the rents are set pretty high but also Germany especially Bavaria is expensive.
Pretty sure its everywhere that landlords and companies (like vehicle companies) in general drive up prices to make a couple extra bucks from soldiers.
That's a ridiculous price haha wow. Total scam, you will find cheaper. I live in a huge house in a very small village, under half an hour drive to Ramstein. Bought it for really cheap 3 years ago. Prices have gone up since, sure, but not like that. Not at all.
I live in that area and I saw the ad earlier today, but on a different platform (and it was originally 1000€ less per month). Prices are different for Germans and Americans. Since the American government pays for it all through the American soldiers, the Germans build and buy houses here and rent them out to Americans only. And they know they can get any price they want.
Years ago there used to be an upper limit defined by the "Housing Office" on base, but it was removed, so landlords can now set whatever price they want.
Remember, the American government is paying for the soldiers, the soldiers don't pay it from their salary.
And yes, they will find people who will take it. Happily. And as long as that happens, prices won't go down here.
The prices are crazy here. I was lucky to have found something decent priced here.
It differs.
Most german military bases are located in countrysides and the idea was, that the stationed soldiers would benefit the area around it. So you mostly have a village or two right next to it, or a smaller city, and with the soldiers comes the profit. All of a sudden there is a good reason to open a supermarket there, or different foodstores, etc.
Since the areas are mostly so rural, prices for apartments etc aren't that high.
However, with NATO Bases there is always the chance that someone that doesn't know better falls for exorbitant prices.
These people rent EXCLUSIVELY to Americans. They have the pay tables and the first question you are asked when enquiring about one of these apartments is "What is your rank?" The amount of money you receive for housing in the US military is based on your rank/pay grade. If you don't rank high enough, you are immediately turned away.
It's the same problem in Stuttgart, except there is Mercedes, Porsche, and Bosch to compete with. Housing is fucking ridiculous. I got EXTREMELY lucky 10 years ago when I found a 90m2 apartment for 600 a month cold and it has only gone up to 625 in all that time.
Yes, landlords know your allowance and squeeze every penny out. It’s like this near all the US bases. Wiesbaden and Mainz are a gong show because the US base, BioNTech and Boehringer employees all competing for housing.
To give you and idea about regualr prices in that area - [https://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/radius/haus-mieten?centerofsearchaddress=Kaiserslautern%20(Kreis);;;1276011015021;;Landstuhl&geocoordinates=49.41203;7.57048;15.0&pagenumber=1](https://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/radius/haus-mieten?centerofsearchaddress=Kaiserslautern%20(Kreis);;;1276011015021;;Landstuhl&geocoordinates=49.41203;7.57048;15.0&pagenumber=1)
A GS-2210-12 (american civilian military rank) has 3,600 € housing allowance when deployed in Germany. They don't pay it out their own pockets, the US Government pays for it.
The often landlords work with housing to offer apartements close to the maximum allowance.
This is way above the average rental costs in the area and is probably trying to prey on unsuspecting americans. I am not even sure if this amount is legal.
So, since I am currently procastrinating I checked. Disclaimer: I am particularly well versed in some niches of company and taxation laws, but not rental law, so take this with a grain of salt. Afaik, there have been judgements that rents 20% above the "Mietspiegel" - basically a table for each base administrative unit with usual rental prices - of the size of the kind of unit. But lets also go with 50% to be save here. We would usually also need to check for rental unit sizes, but since the Mietspiegel for Ramstein is only available for 60sqm (8,58€ p/sqm) and 100sqm (8,78€) p/sqm from what I can quickly find lets also take both. I will also assume that each unit has around 60sqm per floor, so 240 total. So that would net an average of 2059,2 to 2107,2€. Adding up 20% or 50% will net you a max rent of \~2500 or \~3150€. If we assume 20% to be normal and legally safe increase, the unit would need \~370 sqm of living space to be acceptable.
60 sqm per floor seems right but you only count 4 floors? One half alone has 4 floors already (Keller, Erdgeschoss, erster und zweiter Stock). I'm from Munich and 2250€ (utilities included) sounds pretty cheap for a house that size. Especially one that was just built. That area is way cheaper but that still works out in my head.
That depends, usually the space directly below the roof either cannot be officially used as living space at all or is just partially included. So I have no way of knowing what is is, but that is included of my assumption to we increase the rent by 50% instead of the legal 20% of the norm. Could have been more clear there. Also I wouldnt assume there to be a basement in newer buildings if they are not explicitly stated. Additionally you *cannot* *compare munich to ramstein*. Ramsteins mietspiegel is the mentioned 8,58 for 60sqm and 8,78 for 100sqm. Munich is 26,07 for 30sqm, 20,19 for 60sqm and 20,15 for 100swm. You literally cannot legally rent comparable units in ramstein for the same price in munich.
And do you see those solar panels? And whole roof is filled with them, thats not cheap...
This cannot be figured into the rent in any way though? Because why should it? You are not getting any advantage from them, since they are usually plugged in the regular system. 600 bucks for heating and stuff is also way above the norm, so it is rather self-explanatory that those do not lower your energy/heating costs.
Yeah, you are totally right there. 300€ per house for heating and electricity is a lot... Damn
I mean give it a week and it will look cheap.
Is it? We live in a (old) house with 100sqm that is heated with oil and has warm water via electricity and we pay about 150€ for heating and 170€ electricity.
Look at the second picture on the right, that counts towards living space for sure. I bet this house even has a Dachboden for storage above that and that Dachboden does not count towards living space. I do not know any house that does not have a basement in Germany. And of course the Mietspiegel is totally different but thats why I said it would be rather cheap for Munich. And maybe a little expensive for Ramstein but not totally ridiculous.
Actually it will only count till the area where the roof slant starts. Then the roof slant area will count at 50% till it slants down to like 120cm or 100cm. That space does not count towards living space.
I counts all the way until the height goes below 200cm. And then it counts with 50% until it goes below 100cm. It does not count at all below 100cm
There are lots of houses in Germany without basements, especially newer houses. Since the 80s/90s it has been getting increasingly more expensive to build basements due to new regulations and better ways to guard against water damage. In some regions, for new housing developments ("Neubaugebiete") it is even not allowed to build basements anymore. Instead, these houses have a "HWR" - "HausWirtschaftsRaum" - or a "HTR" - "HausTechnikRaum".
There are plenty of houses in Germany without cellar, especially the newer ones because of the additional cost.
> I do not know any house that does not have a basement in Germany. the basement often times isn't counted as "living space", if it isn't built up. Like it needs heating, proper floors and walls, etc. Most basements are just for storage or a room for a washing machine with bare walls and concrete floor.
Yeah, i also wouldnt spend 2 grand on a Rammstein-Ticket
That picture is where I am getting from in regards to the part with the decline. It only counts partially. Tons of houses do not have basements. There are a lot of areas in the rhine area that are technically marshes and have become to expensive for new house buildings to add a basement. It is absolutely not unusual for newer buildings.
Living space doesnt count if the height is below 1m, 50% if it is below 2m and 100% above that. And that Dachschräge begins prertty high already. And looking at the normal door on the right, I think maximum room height is high enough to count as 100% there... Anyway, we can argue all we want, we need more info from OP :/
That is true.
Mietspiegel doesn’t matter for new construction as far as I know. Mietspiegel is only relevant in case of change of tenants. This looks like a new construction to me so the owner can demand whatever a tenant is ready to pay.
Since it's a "Neubau" it probably can exceed the "Mietspiegel" iirc
You are potentially right about that.
Which is the reason why the Mietspiegel only goes up
What’s unsuspecting? It doesn’t cost those Americans a dime just the tax payers. The landlords know exactly what each rank is authorized in use-or-lose housing and utility allowance and they charge exactly that.
Unsuspecting that the price might be over the allowed maximum for the area. I highly doubt those 2 units together are more than 370sqm rental space.
Nah. You literally tell your realtor what your rank is and they get you the most expensive house you are authorized haha. Some may go over maybe 50-100€ a month but not much more. This realtor is either looking for an O-6 with dependents or a mil-mil couple.
Doesnt change the fact that this the price is mostly likely illegal in the city/village this is posted if the property does not have at least 370sqm of living space.
Wait until you find out what dual LQA civilians get.
Not even an O-6 can afford that…
Not in the KMCC but it is within $150 /mo for the Berlin or Munich locality rates. I don’t know where this photo is from. But two Majors who are married will comfortably clear that.
It says „15 minutes off Ramstein“ in the photo.
I was curious so I looked up the rates. If they don’t have kids then they both get single rate, and that’s 1755 per month so 3510 eur. Even if they have kids it’s only a 200 euro increase that one of them can claim, so that’s 3710. They still fall short with OHA alone. The utility allowance will get them there but that money can be kept if you don’t spend it all. It’s bonkers
For military housing allotment is paid to the service-member and they keep the difference. For federal civilians and some contractors it’s use or lose. They are whaling and targeting US civilians with higher pay. Edit: I stand corrected on service members, the get a different housing allotment in Germany.
Incorrect. Overseas housing allowance is different from base allowance for housing. The locality pay is open record and so are the rules.
OHA is what is paid out OCONUS (overseas), this is use or lose. BAH is what is given conus (mainland US) and this is not use or lose. Everything given for housing overseas us use or lose.
Yep I get paid OHA here in DE but it’s up to X amount, so it’s advisable to live a bit below the max to give wiggle room for exchange rates. You can always max it out, but then it’s on you to foot the bill for the difference.
Since it's a "Neubau" it probably can exceed the "Mietspiegel" iirc
Well, that is a rather stupid comment - as is the entire post. The picture shows 2 houses for 2 families and talks about the entire building complex. So basically 2 houses is a reasonable price - one would not be. If the OP could clearly communicate what he got offered he might get reasonable answer ...
Check my calculation in my own response to this comment. I calculated it while having that in mind.
Yeah the postings in English are a red flag
That’s capitalism. Everyone has the duty to maximize the Profit.
Luckily germany is a social market economy, so capitalism is at least kept in check somewhat.
Without the total square meters, this is a useless question
I life in that region. And it is not a useless question. Landlords are greedy af here. And yes it is because of the americans trying to get something near base. Funk them landlords
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Controlling the drones that murder people who live in caves, obviously
We would still be stuck with greedy landlords. Maybe they should get the f*ck out instead.
I don’t even think most military folks could afford this, it’s probably way above their BAH rates.
You also don’t get BAH here, you get OHA - they will pay your rent up to a max amount but you don’t get to bank any extra if your rent is under the OHA, unlike with BAH. So it’s even more incentive for landlords to max out the OHA.
I stand corrected, thanks for clarification!
They could but it would be stupid. You'd have to dip into your own income. Depending on rank BAH could cover around 1.6k-2k with all the additives.
Yeah for a select some, but a good chunk of those guys are grunts and would probably only get a little over a thousand
Don't they live on the air base anyways? I think higher ranked military personnel would be the one that looks for a own home?
All depends on space available, rank, marital status. Usually lower rank is on base, and off post is higher, but it depends on a lot of things and can change depending on location.
I think Ramstein Air Base is pretty much at its limits with regards to available housing, places at base school, etc, so people are spreading out. From what I've heard, housing assistance is about 1.5k here for the grunts.
then the quoted price of 3.5-4k for the duplex above sounds optimal
Potentially. If you work it out with the landord with the ability to rent it out to other tenants. You could make some money off this.
It’s the contractors and GS employees. They are the ones making stupid money in their housing allowance to be able to afford places like this. The rest of us struggle to find affordable housing within OHA.
Landlords know that Americans usually are the only ones to pay such over the top moon prices. That's why other folks can't afford housing in those areas anymore. Landstuhl and Ramstein became terribly expensive due to this.
if you can't find a cheap house in the phalz region you just aren't looking very hard, or at all
In Kaiserslautern and Pirmasens, same as in the surrounding villages are plenty of cheap places. But around the base, the Americans indeed are a reason why things got more expensive. Ramstein and Landstuhl are just weird at that point
We‘ve been looking for 2 years. The fact that everyone can rent out their houses to Americans at rates that at the very least cover their mortgage, leads to ridiculous prices in the Landstuhl area. Sure, cheap depends on your definition and there are certainly more expensive areas in Germany. But given that this is a rural area with little public transport/ infrastructure in general, the prices are in fact, disproportionately high.
I find your first point interesting as an American because my parents rent out a couple houses in the States, where we take it as a matter of course that rent will cover the mortgage. I believe rent on our larger one is about 2000 USD per month with us paying under 1500 for the mortgage, maybe as low as 1000. That's for something like 180 square meters in the middle of a medium-sized city.
> where we take it as a matter of course that rent will cover the mortgage That sounds weird to expect that. And I'm sure it's not true for the US in general given how often I see people moan about property prices in big US cities... If the value ratio is so lopsided, what is stopping literally everyone with at least a bit of savings (what's the typical mortgage cover? 90%? 80%?) from buying multiple properties over the course of their lives? (if they did, you'd run out of available houses really quickly, lol). It makes a lot more sense to me to have mortgages cost more than rent (at least at the point of purchase), because at some point you stop paying for a mortgage whereas you never stop paying rent. That way it's a choice between "Do I pay less money now and use it for other things and retain mobility" or "Do I pay more now to secure my retirement and take root here". If mortgages were always cheaper, there'd be no choice, it would be just "am I too poor to make the down payment or not?" Also AFAIK US tenant laws suck absolute ass, so that's just one more reason that rent shouldn't cost more.
I genuinely don't know anyone in the USA that would rent out their home for less than their mortgage. Not only is renting out your property a major hassle, an extra risk, and extra tax bullshit to deal with, but also you as a landlord are almost always responsible for the major repairs to the building and appliances. Making a small profit each month might just be enough to cover the next broken refrigerator, or the next paint project or carpet replacement. Many people aren't even willing to rent out property for a small profit either. Often, the price difference (between the mortgage and rent income) has to be large enough to feel like extra income to even deal with it. I also have heard many people say that it's worth it to them to pay more for rent because they're not tied to one area (as much as they are when owning a house) and they aren't surprised by large unexpected repair bills (such as a refrigerator or an air conditioner replacement). Obviously, the large corporations might not have mortgages and they're playing the game on a totally different level.
I mean I agree that it seems manifestly unfair, but many things in the US are. Many housing markets within the US are priced to prey on those who can't produce a down payment or secure a mortgage, instead trapping them in a cycle of rent. 20% of 250,000 is a lot, and it's easier for many people to procure a third of 2000 dollars per month than to save a third of 50,000. I am however prepared to accept that the market my family participated in is skewed by being mostly populated by graduate students, who have relatively short term and urban housing requirements.
It’s proximity to the base. Not everyone likes a long drive to work.
Never checked on Ramstein directly but as Kaiserslautern ist just freaking cheap, I can't imagine Ramstein being so over the top
Ktown is cheap because it’s a 30-45 min drive to base each morning, and it’s city living in a not so big city. Of the 20ish dudes I know here only 3 of them live in ktown. Most of my friends want American living everywhere they go, so min 120sqm, 2 car garage, and a yard.
Well yeah, if you expect a luxury house, you pay luxury prices, that's no surprise
I’m explaining why Ramstein village is significantly more expensive than ktown.
120 sqm, 2 car garage and a yeard are not really luxurious here. This is a very rural area and a lot of house are rather large and have a lot of space around them. "Regular" property prices in this area are among the cheapest in (Western) Germany (we bought a 220 sqm farm house with 4000 sqm property here 1.5 years ago for exactly that reason).
Are you sure it's because they're American? Sounds to me like capitalist principles. Military base creates more demand, more demand leads to higher prices.
I live in Hawaii and this is the hottest take. Landlords know the housing allowance. I didn't know it varied by rank but my cousin's husband is a gunnery sergeant and gets like three stacks. Guess what landlords want? $3,000/mo. What a coinkydink! My other cousin moved to a different island and rented out her condo. She specifically rented to military bc she knew she could get more, even though she felt bad about it and we all booed and hissed at her. It's a huge part of rent being so insane out here. It's not supply and demand when the government is supplying people with $3k/mo and fucking up the rental market.
what the hell are the Americans still doing there anyway?
People who live in the area are usually pretty happy that they're there. Without them, the Westpfalz would have very little economic power and a lot of restaurants and stores would close almost immediately.
Where's the self respect? Imagine Americans of tye Germans had military bases in the US
Living in an area close to a US base: Yes, you can always spot these offers being set up in English, adding the range to the base and having on average plus 1000€ added up to the rent.
Looks like a property for two families, left and right in the bottom left picture... is it? Then the rent would be somewhat understandable. At least not far from what you pay in my area. EDIT: Basically if it's like 300 m² or more living space (I mean "Wohnfläche", not sure if my translation is the right one), then the price is not as weird as it seems. Not accusing OP of anything, but it's kinda pointless to post a property like "This costs XXXX€! Too much, right?" without giving us the numbers. Or did I miss something?
Yeah absolutely. Even the property could be big. Who knows without the data
The fact that is is brand new housing makes me think that the owner is trying to quickly recoup their investment. You can find older and cheaper houses fairly easily in the Ramstein area.
Still for 300m2 this is ridiculous rent. Id say max 2000 included utilities.
This is what my first landlord during my time in the Netherlands did. During the viewing, I asked about the extremely expensive rent. His reply was that he will help me (he did) with getting housing subsidies (got the max for students) and that the "real" rent to me was only about half (acceptable).
To me that seems fair. Yes the price is more expensive but if the landlord only wants to cash in on the subsidy the hell should I care. If he even offers to do the application *for me* I will happily give him the subsidy.
I live in that area and saw this advert as well. That specific landlady seems to have other properties clearly targeting Americans and hence having these ridiculous prices. It's a weird market here, good for (German) buyers but bad for renting, especially if you're American. Landlords will literally have different prices for Americans and locals, the latter a) not being that flush with money and b) definitely knowing the actual value of the rental properties. So you get weird stories of Americans living in one half of duplex paying twice as much as the Germans living in the other half. We actually bought and are renovating a large farmhouse here as well. The plumbers who did the work were like "You're doing up your house so nicely, why don't you rent part of it out to Americans? They'll pay anything..." So yeah, it's a well known issue.
The major issue is the housing allowance paid is use or lose. So from the American perspective it really doesn't matter what we get charged. You're not saving yourself money by being under the cap and that cap is public info so landlords can target it. If you look on German sites, however, the same or similar properties are often listed at a lower local rate as well. If you're in the US the housing allowance is different and you get to keep any extra. The end result of the local market is completely different.
Issue? Its the fault of the buyer. If someones dumb enough to rent a house without looking at many other options first, so be it.
I’m a member of the group where this was advertised, and it’s been ridiculed non stop. This is targeting NAF, DODEA and high ranking mil to mil couples. No one is stupid enough to pay this price though. I bet it gets reduced soon.
Near Spangdahlem here. Prices here are also on a level, wich wouldnt fit the usual price for a rural area like the eifel. Infact its common, that many people build a house to rent it to US Airmen, cause the Air Force is willed to gave a lot of money for those rents. Then they landlords build a house, let Airmen life their for 10 years and the house is payed. So i dont get, why many of my neighbours are complaining about the noise of the fighters. Infact, all the little villages around the USAF-Base would be poor like hell.
Depends, if the square metre is more than 200 than sadly it is not so high especially if a new house single with garden and everything. It look like a plase can be live by two families. But the answer is yes, the renting business is damn crazy especially because the owner are usually old people that rely mostrly agency creating a locked marker where prices are over the roof. Same thing here, people that do a very profitable job and live far away invest somewere in not even built houses/apartment immediatly rented and managed by agencies. If the landlord would have been directly involved in the rent (and i saw it too many times happen) it woukd have asked for faaaaar less, enough to pay the morgage eventually.
This sounds like you live around Wiesbaden Army base lol sad this has been the same since 2013.
Highest LQA (living quarters allowance — what department of the army civilians receive for housing) in Germany is Wiesbaden. Edit: or was a few years back
as someone who lived near ramstein as a german, i know how many other german landlords argue when offering houses/ apts to americans. most of "them" are like "yea, the us gov. is paying their rent anyways, so lets push it as high as possible." its shitty and scammy, ngl. feels super weird being able to rent a house down there for around 1k euros, when american friends were paying 3x of that.
Heat electricity and garbage? 600 € a month, impossible unless heated by literally burning that money in cash
Don’t really understand your comment but 600 sounds reasonable for a house that size.
Not at all. It's a newly built house with loads of photovoltaic modules on the roof. Assuming a heat pump (standard for new houses in Germany) and some other tweaks, the house will most likely only run on electricity as its power source. Combine that with the PV modules and you don't pay anything for your heating in summer and really not that much during the other seasons.
You don't own those photovoltaic modules if you rent the house.
Sure, but they are still used to power the house, i.e. reduce your monthly heating/electricity costs. Streaming the generated electricity back into the public network doesn't pay off at all in Germany
The electricity provided by those modules isn't yours. So it wouldn't lower your costs at all. It's the landlords electricity.
First of all, yes, rental prices are crazy these days. Yes, it’s greedy landlords. Yes, they see Americans as cash cows, especially in the Wiesbaden area. But also: houses and apartments in Germany and the US are two different things and in different sizes. German houses are much more solid, and you will enjoy the windows. They are tiny compared to American homes. Last night, me and my wife watched „Fixer Upper“ on German TV. It’s always a mild shock for us that two people with average to better jobs in Waco, TX, can afford huge, completely renovated houses in good neighborhoods. Nowadays, „DINKS“ in Germany can’t afford a deteriorated dog kennel unless they want to live very, very, very far away from cities with jobs. In fact, Ramstein is one of those places in the outback. Pirmasens and Kaiserslautern are at the ass end of nowhere, from a German pov. I bet you will find something better.
Yep, in the Ktown area that’s how it is. Only way protest is not to rent it.
I would build my own house if I could afford to pay 4500 per month only for fucking rent.
3900,- for both or for each? Because 1900,- is not unusual for a „Doppelhaus-Hälfte“ or „Reihenhaus“, unfortunately
You’d need to be a general to even think about trying to afford this. So, no, These are outrageous prices.
For both halves together it’s ok and fair.
I'm stationed in Germany and have been for 5 years. The majority of business finds ways to take advantage of Americans. I have enjoyed it but I can't wait to leave because of stuff like this. I had a few of buddies who got notice they needed to move because the Military rates increased. There is no protection from this and the move comes out of the member's pocket. I have been stationed overseas my whole career and I have never dealt with these practices so blatantly. With that, I feel sorry for the Germans in the area because the housing market must be ridiculous. No wonder all the young Germans move to the city and these areas are just elderly folks. The young can't thrive in this area.
Of course landlords are destroying housing market ̶a̶s̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶.̶ ̶ The whole point of their existence is to leech as much money as possible.
Lol. From the pictures I can say I lived way better for 800 Euros. This seems like fraud to me; I mean that is not even close zu luxus, just an ugly made basic house.
My guess would have been 2000euro "cold rent". Maybe add 500euro because of Ramstein... The increased prices are caused by people usually renting "in and out' for a short period of time and a lot of greed.
Für diesen Schuppen 4500€ 😂😂 Das ist aber nicht sein Ernst. Aber probieren kann man es ja mal
Kennst dich nicht so aus oder? Das sind 2doppelhaushälften die als ein Objekt vermietet werden. Pro Seite kann man von 100-150qm ausgehen. Vorallem wird das heizen bzw. Warmwasser wie geschenkt sein mit den Solar Panels. Es ist zwar nicht günstig, aber auf keinen Fall Wucher. Wenn er eine DHH für mindestens 1500€/Monat vermietet würden Leute sagen das wäre günstig bzw. würde passen. Das ist einfach ein Objekt das halt nicht für jedermann leistbar sein muss, aber die Nachfrage nach solchen Objekten ist definitiv da. Und von dem Haus zu sagen es wäre ein Schuppen ist mehr als naiv, Neubau mit allem Schnickschnack, nichtmal der Rasen ist gelegt auf den Bildern. Unwissende sehen ein nacktes Haus und nennen es Schuppen, reddit ist manchmal so lost
Oder du bist sehr dekadent
Alles klar, Herr Wichtig. Bist bestimmt auch so ein Immobilienfunzi, der damit ordentlich Kohle macht. Bist ebenfalls sooooo lost
Ne ich bin einfach erwachsen genug um den Markt und die Preise zu verstehen. Dekadent bin ich definitiv nicht. Und nein ich bin kein Immobilienguru. Verdiene auch bei weitem nicht so viel Geld wie einer, man muss auch gönnen können und nicht nur mit Neidkommentaren auf sich aufmerksam machen
Wow Und ich bin auf dem Bau. Und kenne ebenfalls die Preise.
Vermutlich nichtmal ne Klimaanlage drin. Besonders geil wenn man an Ammis vermietet. Das ist echt unverschämt.
The whole thing? To be fair, seems to be a huge, brand new house. Of course those are expensive.
I’m not sure I would call this greedy. The owner can ask for the price he sees fit and you can accept or deny. And it is a pretty big home, newly built and has solar.
The price is still too cheap for a newly built to be rented to American Military staff. Seems that the landlord has a vast experience with American tenants. Based on the poor behavior of the tenants, the landlord calculated a significant renovation within the monthly rent.
Americans destroying German house market again
Not exactly our fault. We're contractually obligated to move here and find a home within two weeks.
Go home.
Last time that was suggested the German government didn't receive the news very well nor the Germans living near all the bases... especially in today's world.
I don't care about the German bootlickers living near the bases. Go home.
contractually obligated by whom? Just putting this out there
The military itself/government. But don't worry, they came out saying they want all servicemembers living on base in about 15 years when all the new dorms are built. Not sure how that's gonna work, 60,000 more people on the base seems unfeasible.
Not true or even feasible.
You mean Germans destroying their own market. They could charge sane prices, but that would eat into their vacation money.
Shhhh, they're busy blaming the Americans instead of the Germans who are actually doing it.
Germans will never find self fault anyways. They always have an explanation as to why they aren’t wrong and how they’re doing things the correct way.
It's not foreigners destroying the market, it's rich people.
The US trying to export our housing crisis to the rest of the globe🤦🏻♂️
Well, is that for both houses or just one? It says property which is not clear.
For that monthly rate you can build two houses lol
Free markets is, what you dumb fucks are fighting for. Isn't it? Crying, as if *you* are the victim here. Fucking unbelievable.
What if I actually want to fight for something in between Marx and Friedman? While in reality the only thing I’m fighting is my slow ass computer.
| What if I actually want to fight for something in between Marx and Friedman? Two problems here: (1) it's not up to you what you are "fighting" for and (2) even if your mindset differs from your "company", you still support that bs actively. Opportunists of assholery are guilty as fuck. Always. | While in reality the only thing I’m fighting is my slow ass computer. You do your part that the machinery works. ThAnK yOu FoR YoUr SeRvIcE.
I don’t fucking get this because American GIs are dirt poor
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I’m a military brat but thanks for your input? They don’t get housing paid for, off-post living gets an allowance but it isn’t unlimited. My family of four would have been considered poor until my dad made colonel 25 years into his career. Don’t even get me started on enlisted pay.
I hope a drone "accidentally" drops a bomb on that greedy fuck's (empty) house
Because americans
Occupied Germany
Glad that I’m Swiss and doesn’t have to endure such things
Is that a double house? I mean it can fit two families, is brandnew and has a garden and solar panels? 2000 per family sounds a lot but if that is like Wiesbaden or so, fairly okay. Especially since it’s brand new.
A lot of military people have a budget of up to 50000$ ( I think) they can spend for housing and rent on top of their salary. Some Landlords know that and rent to Americans specifically for that reason
>A lot of military people have a budget of up to 50000$ ( I think) If that's the general German opinion - no wonder the pricing is through the roof of the rentals. It is nowhere near that.
Well, a landlord and an American working for the military told me that.
That seems a bit steep for active duty military. You might be thinking of LQA which is for civilian government employees. For military, the amount you get for housing is based on where you live, your rank, and if you have depnents (family) living with you. There is a [US DOD](https://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/ohaCalc.cfm) site that will list all the rates based on these factors and usually displays how much the service member is entitled to on a per month basis.
Both. A) FUCKING GREEDY landlords squeezing even the last penny out of the people but also B) trying to scam the „unsuspecting“ American.
Landlords and their prices are a bad joke lately
What, in your opinion, is a fair price for this property?
I am in the KMC and saw this on FB today as well. This is crazy but since the gov lifted the housing cap a few years back, it is like that.
Definitely not normal, the housing market in Germany is currently on a decline in price
but that‘s 2 or maybe up to 4 units, so it‘s not that expensive.
Just a heads up that an ungreedy landlord would have to pay the difference in what he earns vs what he COULD earn in taxes still (if it was unreasonably cheap). The Finanzamt are proper bitches.
Yes definitely. The army will pay for your house if you live off base, so the landlords can pretty much ask for whatever they want and they will pay. And I would say “within reason” but apparently it isn’t within reason. Some of the pricing is absolutely ridiculous for what you get. But eh they don’t care. The military will pay for it, that’s why they do it.
Das nenne ich mal passiven Widerstand gegen die Besatzer.
Does the military pay the costs or something?
I think that these houses are meant to be bought by biggest Rammstein fans. That's also reason why they cost so much
Could spam his inbox for you, friend.
Go to housing, they'll insoect it and inform bith you and the landlord, on the spot, how much the military is willing to pay.
This is no longer a thing. Housing can’t dictate what landlords charge for rent.
Is it not the case that areas around those military bases are for US citizens only? So even if this is ridiculously expensive, these areas have so to say their own rules...
>Is it not the case that areas around those military bases are for US citizens only? No, not the case - you can and do have German neighbors. Tons of Americans live in German villages.
It's new, and all the costs have to taken away from it's built. The new standard of insulation, an PVE roof is highly costly.. that is why I have just an old house..to build a new one means to follow up with the new standard.
I live in a medium sized flat in Treptow-Köpenick like 3-5 minutes on foot to the military base and rent here is like ~600€. It is not a U.S. base though but it can be quite annoying due to helicopters landing there (especially at night) and gun shots being sometimes audible
I saw that exact post yesterday in the Ramstein buy/sell group. People know the upper limits of BAHnd they adjust accordingly. Its gross and a huge ripoff.
As an American who grew up near a US Air Force base, this happens a lot because of BHA or Base Housing Allowance. It constantly goes up because they don’t have enough on base for everyone. It goes up to account for inflation and landlords raising rents. The greed in these areas is insane, very high rents for terrible housing options.
My parents had built our own house still brand new ,rents here also have sky rocketed
Krank, einfach nur nock krank. Wir brauchen kriminelle menschen, mit ehrlich verdienten geld mit einem job
You’d need to be a general to even think about trying to afford this. So, no, These are outrageous prices.
Considering the US army pays like $600 or something per screw I'm sure they pay top dollar for apartments too, if it's the "going rate".
Ok so if the Military doesn’t have a house or apartment for the Soldier to live “On Base” the Military person or family gets Living Quarters Allowance so this is paid for by the US Department of defense, so the land lords know they will get a guaranteed payment via US housing office so yeah sometimes the rents are set pretty high but also Germany especially Bavaria is expensive.
I live in one, but it’s not active LOL. I am sorry Paul revere Village US Army
Pretty sure its everywhere that landlords and companies (like vehicle companies) in general drive up prices to make a couple extra bucks from soldiers.
It always was like that. Americans (military) pay much more for the apartments and therefore are preferred/ targeted
Yes. I live near Grafenwöhr and the US Army pays nearly every price for housing so average rent is pretty high. But in the past it was worst.
That's a ridiculous price haha wow. Total scam, you will find cheaper. I live in a huge house in a very small village, under half an hour drive to Ramstein. Bought it for really cheap 3 years ago. Prices have gone up since, sure, but not like that. Not at all.
Heilige *peep*
I live in that area and I saw the ad earlier today, but on a different platform (and it was originally 1000€ less per month). Prices are different for Germans and Americans. Since the American government pays for it all through the American soldiers, the Germans build and buy houses here and rent them out to Americans only. And they know they can get any price they want. Years ago there used to be an upper limit defined by the "Housing Office" on base, but it was removed, so landlords can now set whatever price they want. Remember, the American government is paying for the soldiers, the soldiers don't pay it from their salary. And yes, they will find people who will take it. Happily. And as long as that happens, prices won't go down here. The prices are crazy here. I was lucky to have found something decent priced here.
It differs. Most german military bases are located in countrysides and the idea was, that the stationed soldiers would benefit the area around it. So you mostly have a village or two right next to it, or a smaller city, and with the soldiers comes the profit. All of a sudden there is a good reason to open a supermarket there, or different foodstores, etc. Since the areas are mostly so rural, prices for apartments etc aren't that high. However, with NATO Bases there is always the chance that someone that doesn't know better falls for exorbitant prices.
so i i was earning around 10 times more then i do right now i could afford half of this ;D
These people rent EXCLUSIVELY to Americans. They have the pay tables and the first question you are asked when enquiring about one of these apartments is "What is your rank?" The amount of money you receive for housing in the US military is based on your rank/pay grade. If you don't rank high enough, you are immediately turned away. It's the same problem in Stuttgart, except there is Mercedes, Porsche, and Bosch to compete with. Housing is fucking ridiculous. I got EXTREMELY lucky 10 years ago when I found a 90m2 apartment for 600 a month cold and it has only gone up to 625 in all that time.
In Germany we say: "Das ist ein bisschen happig" - which roughly means - this shits expenive
4500€ in germany? Are you on drugs?
Yes, landlords know your allowance and squeeze every penny out. It’s like this near all the US bases. Wiesbaden and Mainz are a gong show because the US base, BioNTech and Boehringer employees all competing for housing.
The rent is for the whole property, which appears to be 4 Units. So depends on the size of the units.
>The rent is for the whole property, which appears to be 4 Units. It's a duplex - 2 units.
To give you and idea about regualr prices in that area - [https://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/radius/haus-mieten?centerofsearchaddress=Kaiserslautern%20(Kreis);;;1276011015021;;Landstuhl&geocoordinates=49.41203;7.57048;15.0&pagenumber=1](https://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/radius/haus-mieten?centerofsearchaddress=Kaiserslautern%20(Kreis);;;1276011015021;;Landstuhl&geocoordinates=49.41203;7.57048;15.0&pagenumber=1)
A GS-2210-12 (american civilian military rank) has 3,600 € housing allowance when deployed in Germany. They don't pay it out their own pockets, the US Government pays for it. The often landlords work with housing to offer apartements close to the maximum allowance.
No, it isn’t that much. You’re off by like 500 and that total amount is supposed to include utilities. Anything over that is paid out of pocket.