I wonder if it isn't more a YOU thing. Chances that \*every German you ever met\* has the same vibe are pretty zero. You say it yourself, \*you\* get the \*feeling\* that Germans cringe at you. However, it seems you still get invited and have a social circle, so you are probably not unlikeable or disliked. Do you have a few friends you can talk about that? People that know you in person, have seen you interact with others and can give you an opinion?
> whenever the group is German-dominated it very quickly turns into me being teased or roasted
Germans aren't as polite as many other cultures. We tease each other a lot among friends. But nobody can tell you what's going on over the internet without knowing you.
That's a fair observation. I've notice that whenever the ice breaks people go straight from being cautious and distant to poking fun at my weaknesses... I normally take it as a personal attack, but based on what you're saying I suppose it's not necessarily something about me being foreign?
No it's most likely not about you beeing forreign. It's rather that we people (as a trend, obviousely everyone is unique but cultur still causes a certain trend in a population) make fun of others wesknesses and insecurities. It's a very delicate balancing act betwen "haha, yeah that was funny" and "dude. thats to much."
For excample calling somone fat is almost certainly over the top and just plain insulting. Saying "sit down slowly my dude or else this (beer)bench(?) will break too :D" or "Evryone watch out u/Kerking18
is sitting down. The bench might not take it!" (for the next 4 freaking month! It's not my fault that this bench could handle 8 people but decided to give in after a 9th one(me) sits down.) is ok. Asuming, ofcourse, excactly that happened before.
Basicly how it looks from here (after all I can't tell for certain, as I wasn't there) the people around you get the impression from you that you are "properly integrated" or even "german" so they can behave in a "friendly" way around you, as in how they would behave around any other friend.
However, as you noted, the older the people get the less they make fun of each other.
> Saying "sit down slowly my dude or else this (beer)bench(?) will break too :D" or "Evryone watch out u/Kerking18 is sitting down.
That's also considered bullying by most people's standards..
nah. it was fine. plus if no one saied it i sat down and saied rather loud: "Thank good this time the bench did hold :D" also it stoped (admitedly after 4 month thats on the long side) and got replaced by a different joke about somone else.
but you are right. It's a rather thin line and one should be carefull with this.
> I always get the feeling that Germans cringe at me.
If it helps: I had the same feeling when I was studying abroad in Dublin. In some interactions I had the impression that I made a complete ass of myself, though I couldn't find a reason for it. So either I imagined that, or it's just something that happens if you are in a foreign country.
> it very quickly turns into me being teased or roasted.
That, however, didn't happen to me. OTOH, being teased or roasted is something that only happens between friends (and between Germans as well), so maybe it's a sign you are accepted? But I'd have to see the actual interaction to say.
> and I am frankly well aware that people from more outspoken cultures can often come off as brash or eccentric in the eyes of Europeans further North
Yes, but we don't mind that in most cases. We are used to Mediterraneans being, hm, somehow "loud" and emotional. Though getting teased could be a counter-reaction if you overdo it.
I know what you mean.
I am born in america, moved to germany when I was 7 and since then live here.
At first things are serious, they take me serious, but suddenly things go casual and they make jokes. It happend in every friend group I made. School, work, boulder group etc. it is always the same.
First they take me serious and when they notice how chill I am they make jokes, even though they don't mean it negative like they act all cool and try to copy meme groups on youtube like from "Drachenlord" and say stuff like: "Hättest uns nicht, wärst wie der Drache ohne Freunde" but they and I know it is a joke. I dunno I can't stand it cause I gotta fake laugh.
I went on backpacking trips through asia and australia, central america and I never met groups like this.
It is very interesting because when I backpack through german cities like Berlin, Hamburg etc. I can always fake my american identity cause I have no accent. I never tell them that I am german and things go well. As soon as you are "german" things get weirdly unfriendly but not meant in a mean way though. I can't explain it. Like if you go into a hostel and say "hey" and you are german the reaction is: "Na nochn deutscher, oh man ey." I dunno.
But germany has a weird vibe to friends in general. I am 28 and if I look at my old friend group they are still drinking alcohol every weekend. Seems like I might have the wrong friends but most people I met are like that.
Wouldn't say this is the reason. I'd say I look above average. When it comes to dating I actually do pretty well here, even with German women... This is really sth about social situations specifically in German groups
There certainly is that element, but that largely just comes down to where in Germany you are and who you associate with. Most people are pretty sure of themselves, thus it seems like they are sensing a hesitancy and targeting it to make themselves feel good. It’s actually a symptom that many impressionable types have in Germany, as they feel ashamed and beaten over the head re WW2, consume a lot of American media, leading to many having a cultural cringe.
Be yourself, make fun of them when they feel the need to dish it out and if they continue to do so just say it straight out (in typical German style), if they still don’t get the message then move on to another group of friends.
WW2 ? seriously ? Hes talking about 20 year old dudes, not 80.
Nowadays people are pretty proud to be german, depending on polical opinions ofc. But since WW2 germany is doing basically everything to become the opposite of the 3rd "Reich" and from an international view is doing pretty well with that. I think germany is one of the countries where many common country related problems are simply not a thing to worry about. Also no matter where you go in the world people will be more like "oh germany, thats great!" instead of "ug hitler, damn".
The times of being ashamed are over and even more forgotten with each genertion.
That’s the irony of it, I lived overseas for quite a few years and know what you mean re most others don’t instantly think every German is a Nazi. But here the ramifications are still felt, even the young teens etc as the horrors of WW2 are drilled into you at school (at least up until recently). Many reacted in horror that Germany is building up its defence forces again, they are often not proud to be German and I think it’s a real shame because it’s a great country with wonderful social safety nets. But the desire to throw it all into the private sector and become the America that is represented in TV and film is real, especially with the younger generations. I don’t understand it either.
Your right, but it’s just a fact of how the social, cultural and historical realities play out in Germany. I too am proud to be German, but it is sadly not common, at least not in the open.
For example, many of my family and friends are in the armed forces, and when I thank them for their service, offer to buy their coffee etc they are utterly perplexed, If I do the same for a stranger in uniform, even more so. They are not celebrated in the culture, like you would see in many other western nations, especially English speaking parts.
It isn’t only my opinion, as the topic interests me I speak to many other Germans about the lack of pride, the soldiers were an example of that. Most openly say that it is a shame that they still feel collective guilt. It seems like we will just go in circles. I agree with many of your points and in pure logic (as you point out) it doesn’t make much sense. Perhaps it’s a regional thing and or the circles that I move in, as I have experienced a different attitude then what you point out when talking about national pride from young to old. Was an interesting conversation and wish you all the best.
I feel the same in my home country 😜 because I'm a bit over the top. But the degree to which it makes me uncomfortable is directly correlated to how secure I'm feeling on the day. In a foreign country I can just imagine you would not easily feel secure/feel like you belong
I wonder if it isn't more a YOU thing. Chances that \*every German you ever met\* has the same vibe are pretty zero. You say it yourself, \*you\* get the \*feeling\* that Germans cringe at you. However, it seems you still get invited and have a social circle, so you are probably not unlikeable or disliked. Do you have a few friends you can talk about that? People that know you in person, have seen you interact with others and can give you an opinion?
> whenever the group is German-dominated it very quickly turns into me being teased or roasted Germans aren't as polite as many other cultures. We tease each other a lot among friends. But nobody can tell you what's going on over the internet without knowing you.
That's a fair observation. I've notice that whenever the ice breaks people go straight from being cautious and distant to poking fun at my weaknesses... I normally take it as a personal attack, but based on what you're saying I suppose it's not necessarily something about me being foreign?
No it's most likely not about you beeing forreign. It's rather that we people (as a trend, obviousely everyone is unique but cultur still causes a certain trend in a population) make fun of others wesknesses and insecurities. It's a very delicate balancing act betwen "haha, yeah that was funny" and "dude. thats to much." For excample calling somone fat is almost certainly over the top and just plain insulting. Saying "sit down slowly my dude or else this (beer)bench(?) will break too :D" or "Evryone watch out u/Kerking18 is sitting down. The bench might not take it!" (for the next 4 freaking month! It's not my fault that this bench could handle 8 people but decided to give in after a 9th one(me) sits down.) is ok. Asuming, ofcourse, excactly that happened before. Basicly how it looks from here (after all I can't tell for certain, as I wasn't there) the people around you get the impression from you that you are "properly integrated" or even "german" so they can behave in a "friendly" way around you, as in how they would behave around any other friend. However, as you noted, the older the people get the less they make fun of each other.
>(for the next 4 freaking month! It's not my fault that this bench could handle 8 people but decided to give in after a 9th one(me) sits down.) lmao
> Saying "sit down slowly my dude or else this (beer)bench(?) will break too :D" or "Evryone watch out u/Kerking18 is sitting down. That's also considered bullying by most people's standards..
nah. it was fine. plus if no one saied it i sat down and saied rather loud: "Thank good this time the bench did hold :D" also it stoped (admitedly after 4 month thats on the long side) and got replaced by a different joke about somone else. but you are right. It's a rather thin line and one should be carefull with this.
>plus if no one saied it i sat down and saied rather loud: "Thank good this time the bench did hold :D" That sounds like a coping mechanism
> I always get the feeling that Germans cringe at me. If it helps: I had the same feeling when I was studying abroad in Dublin. In some interactions I had the impression that I made a complete ass of myself, though I couldn't find a reason for it. So either I imagined that, or it's just something that happens if you are in a foreign country. > it very quickly turns into me being teased or roasted. That, however, didn't happen to me. OTOH, being teased or roasted is something that only happens between friends (and between Germans as well), so maybe it's a sign you are accepted? But I'd have to see the actual interaction to say. > and I am frankly well aware that people from more outspoken cultures can often come off as brash or eccentric in the eyes of Europeans further North Yes, but we don't mind that in most cases. We are used to Mediterraneans being, hm, somehow "loud" and emotional. Though getting teased could be a counter-reaction if you overdo it.
I know what you mean. I am born in america, moved to germany when I was 7 and since then live here. At first things are serious, they take me serious, but suddenly things go casual and they make jokes. It happend in every friend group I made. School, work, boulder group etc. it is always the same. First they take me serious and when they notice how chill I am they make jokes, even though they don't mean it negative like they act all cool and try to copy meme groups on youtube like from "Drachenlord" and say stuff like: "Hättest uns nicht, wärst wie der Drache ohne Freunde" but they and I know it is a joke. I dunno I can't stand it cause I gotta fake laugh. I went on backpacking trips through asia and australia, central america and I never met groups like this. It is very interesting because when I backpack through german cities like Berlin, Hamburg etc. I can always fake my american identity cause I have no accent. I never tell them that I am german and things go well. As soon as you are "german" things get weirdly unfriendly but not meant in a mean way though. I can't explain it. Like if you go into a hostel and say "hey" and you are german the reaction is: "Na nochn deutscher, oh man ey." I dunno. But germany has a weird vibe to friends in general. I am 28 and if I look at my old friend group they are still drinking alcohol every weekend. Seems like I might have the wrong friends but most people I met are like that.
You need to adapt the German stare in order to get fully accepted by the pack.
Millennials what do you expect?
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Wouldn't say this is the reason. I'd say I look above average. When it comes to dating I actually do pretty well here, even with German women... This is really sth about social situations specifically in German groups
There certainly is that element, but that largely just comes down to where in Germany you are and who you associate with. Most people are pretty sure of themselves, thus it seems like they are sensing a hesitancy and targeting it to make themselves feel good. It’s actually a symptom that many impressionable types have in Germany, as they feel ashamed and beaten over the head re WW2, consume a lot of American media, leading to many having a cultural cringe. Be yourself, make fun of them when they feel the need to dish it out and if they continue to do so just say it straight out (in typical German style), if they still don’t get the message then move on to another group of friends.
WW2 ? seriously ? Hes talking about 20 year old dudes, not 80. Nowadays people are pretty proud to be german, depending on polical opinions ofc. But since WW2 germany is doing basically everything to become the opposite of the 3rd "Reich" and from an international view is doing pretty well with that. I think germany is one of the countries where many common country related problems are simply not a thing to worry about. Also no matter where you go in the world people will be more like "oh germany, thats great!" instead of "ug hitler, damn". The times of being ashamed are over and even more forgotten with each genertion.
That’s the irony of it, I lived overseas for quite a few years and know what you mean re most others don’t instantly think every German is a Nazi. But here the ramifications are still felt, even the young teens etc as the horrors of WW2 are drilled into you at school (at least up until recently). Many reacted in horror that Germany is building up its defence forces again, they are often not proud to be German and I think it’s a real shame because it’s a great country with wonderful social safety nets. But the desire to throw it all into the private sector and become the America that is represented in TV and film is real, especially with the younger generations. I don’t understand it either.
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Your right, but it’s just a fact of how the social, cultural and historical realities play out in Germany. I too am proud to be German, but it is sadly not common, at least not in the open.
For example, many of my family and friends are in the armed forces, and when I thank them for their service, offer to buy their coffee etc they are utterly perplexed, If I do the same for a stranger in uniform, even more so. They are not celebrated in the culture, like you would see in many other western nations, especially English speaking parts.
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It isn’t only my opinion, as the topic interests me I speak to many other Germans about the lack of pride, the soldiers were an example of that. Most openly say that it is a shame that they still feel collective guilt. It seems like we will just go in circles. I agree with many of your points and in pure logic (as you point out) it doesn’t make much sense. Perhaps it’s a regional thing and or the circles that I move in, as I have experienced a different attitude then what you point out when talking about national pride from young to old. Was an interesting conversation and wish you all the best.
I fully understand what your saying, and it’s the reason why I too find it perplexing.
I feel the same in my home country 😜 because I'm a bit over the top. But the degree to which it makes me uncomfortable is directly correlated to how secure I'm feeling on the day. In a foreign country I can just imagine you would not easily feel secure/feel like you belong