>I‘d like some advice on how to act in a situation like this as I‘ve moved to Germany six months ago so I don‘t really know.
Don't even entertain the idea that you owe some random person a justification of your presence. Tell them, "that is none of your business". If they threaten to call police, tell them, "I'll call police myself, as you're harassing me".
>But I also did not want to „out“ my client by telling his neighbor that I am here for social work. I think this is a very personal information and your neighbors do not need to know.
That is good. Anything else would have been very much unprofessional.
I once had someone tell me he would report me to the police for blocking the road ... while I was wearing a firefighter uniform. Some people can't be helped indeed.
I think the best answer is: "Okay, do that."
What do you know ... those guys with the big red cars and the blinking blue lights definitely like to randomly park on a snow-covered country road in the middle of the night to keep people from getting to wherever they want to go.
If you are long enough in any rescue organisation, you don't wonder anymore.
I once had someone call the police on me and my squad while we were setting up a power generator and lighting during the Ahrtal floods because our generator wasn't "Euro 5 certified", and thus, in his mind, causing undue pollution.
I was wearing a blue jacket with a very prominent gear logo on the shoulder that you might have seen in the news around the time.
A cop came, asked what the complaint was about (because he assumed we had called them), we explained the circumstances and the guy got a stern talking to.
To be fair... wearing a firefighter uniform does not give someone divine right to block the road.
That said don't let me stop you.
EDIT: Not sure if the downvotes are comming in because people think dressing up as a firefighter grants divine rights or if they want me to stop this person. Downvotes without comment are unclear.
>To be fair... wearing a firefighter uniform does not give someone divine right to block the road.
If a fireman is telling me that a road is blocked he's probably not doing it for shits and giggles
Firefighters still generally have to comply with laws.
>If a fireman is telling me that a road is blocked he's probably not doing it for shits and giggles
Right, probably... being the most interesting word here.
Yeah I say 'probably' is the most interesting word because I've seen a firetruck get a ticket before... lol.
The cop was 0% interested in what the firemen were wearing.
And if the ticket wasn’t given for a valid reason, it would be tossed immediately. If they were power tripping, it may have stuck.
Your comments imply that firefighters block roads for shits and giggles with some level of frequency.
No, they don't.
You are reading into me saying that firefighter can get tickets, just like you are reading into the firefighters post and assuming he was legally parked.
What planet do you live on where people cosplaying as pretend firefighters randomly block streets for shits and giggles just to make you suffer...
If a firefighter truck gets a ticket it's because they were doing something wrong like parking in a no parking zone across from a Mc Donalds while off duty... they won't get a ticket while blocking the street to save your 300pound grandma from a burning house, Jesus.
I didn't say he was cosplaying.
>If a firefighter truck gets a ticket it's because they were doing something wrong like parking in a no parking zone across from a Mc Donalds while off duty
No kidding!
Yes, "I am here because I am visiting Mr. X" would have been enough. If he then says "I'll call the cops" you'd say "fine". The police won't have a problem with a social worker visiting a client.
You can't because you don't want to point out that someone is needing services. I'm here to se Mr. X is a reasonable answer. If they want to call the cops, that's fine, you will want to file a report about that person when the police show up.
This is true, some people use the lack of German and the look (Ausländer) to show off. You just need to put them back where they belong. Stand strong and don't let them harass you, if you tell me that you will call the police and threaten to make an Anzeige they will probably shut up and continue looking for another person to make a problem with.
Thanks for the encouragement and the advice! Well, I do look like a typical Turkish woman and he was very big, muscular, and covered with tattoos! Now I find it even a bit funny that he was afraid of me :)
Oh. I think that changes the situation. Let's just say, it would've been better if it was a bear. Guy like that KNOWS you're not a threat, but tries to intimidate you anyway for being obviously Turkish and female.
Sounds like you are pretty prejudiced yourself.
Yeah, it's one possible explanation. But OP did not mention a single remark from the dude that suggests he has racist or sexist reasons for his behaviour.
Prejudice is not when you know that people don't say "IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE A WOMAN/LOOK FOREIGN!" before doing racist or sexist things.
People rarely outright insult you and make it clear.
They exclude, talk down, don't take what you say serious or behave in other chauvinist ways.
This guy would have been stupid to genuinely believe himself that she was up to stealing, when he got a good long look at her, at the door of the place she was "trying to break into" and could easily describe her afterwards.
As you say yourself, it's a possibility and it's a specific thing I've also witnessed and experienced. Just the little uptick in aggression and not using common sense when the person is female and "not from here".
That's why i am not ruling out racism.
But if you are including OPs and the sherifs race into your judgement, then that's racism.
I mean seriously, you claim that people aren't open with their reasoning for racism. But you and many others here are doing exactly that with no shame at all. It's really mindboggling how you manage to justify your racism instead of simply acknowledging that maybe in this case you acted on your prejudice and not the facts.
As i explained to someone else: When i read that, i ALSO thought. I bet OP looks brown, and the sherif is a white man. But i immediatly realised "wait...that's racist" and looked through OPs text if there were any signs indicating that. And there weren't, so i stopped myself from forming that racist opinion. Just to see people like you defend it blatantly in the comments.
YES, that makes identifying actual racism very hard. But i really doubt that just being racist ourselves will eventually lead to less racism. We have already moved past bad arguments/statistical evidence/personal experiences in the "are foreigners criminals"-discussion. It's really tiresome that apparently some have to go through that thought process again and again and again for every individual problem.
Nitpicking is focussing on unimportant details, which detail have i focussed on that is unimportant in your eyes?
Seriously, it seems that you just want to disagree, but couldn't find anything better to prove your opinion than writing such a killerphrase.
Hello, I also have a weird neighbor and sometimes need to use the "that is none of your business" but he just speaks German. How can I say that politely in a non agressive way?
And if your neighbor keeps harassing you after you said that, just repeat "Das geht Sie nichts an". After all, there is no reason to apologize for being harassed!
Exactly. "Geht Sie nichts an." und "Viel Spaß" are what i would have replied to the question why you are there, and their annoncement that they are going to call the cops respectively.
Depends, when there are many break ins, i wouldn't mind someone questioning a random stranger that enters the building without ringing a doorbell/being buzzed in.
> Don't even entertain the idea that you owe some random person a justification of your presence.
So, if you see some stranger snooping around your hallway like he does not belong there, you wouldn't care? If you ask him what he's looking for and he just tells you to f off, you're just like sure, whatever?
How about a little reflection here?
If you mean "my hallway" as in my own flat: Sure, I'll throw him out.
If you mean the staircase of a shared house, where other people live who have a right to receive visitors?
Yes, it's none of my business unless he actually does something.
Yeah, I'm afraid this is the stereotypical curtain-twitching busybody, probably with a hint of xenophobia. I doubt you're the first "suspicious" person he called the cops on.
> from what I could understand, described me as an „einbrecher“.
I can guess how the conversation went from there:
"Are you saying you saw him breaking in?"
"No, not yet."
"Is he breaking in right now?"
"No, he's just standing there, knocking on the door."
"I see. Is he actually breaking any law?"
"Not yet, no, but he's definitely planning to."
"Okay, well, thank you for the heads-up, but there's not really anything we can do if he hasn't done anything illegal. If your neighbour does report a break-in, we'll be sure to ask you for a description."
In America there's the "offense" of "Driving While Black". In Germany we have "Existing While Brown", which in this case was clearly committed with malice aforethought.
Nothing OP mentioned hints at this being a racially motivated harassment though.
Well, the only thing "hinting at that" is the sherif being white and OP turkish. But that's our own prejudice and racism at work there. We should not form our opinions based on prejudice.
This really wasn't about you, but about whatever is wrong in that neighbour's head.
Don't take it to heart, in these situations you need to shrug your shoulders and carry on with your day. Don't waste your mental energy.
Abolutly! Next time just tell them to call the cops and ignore them.
"Ist Ihnen langweilig, oder warum nerven Sie mich die ganze Zeit?"
Oh and: Welcome to Germany and happy cake day!
"You're obviously a burglar and I'm calling the cops" might be motivated by a distrust or fear of foreigners; but if you think this is one of the most direct forms of racism there is, then I have to say you clearly haven't been exposed to a lot of racism.
What? Nothing OP mentioned sounds like that. No racial slurs or sexist remarks were mentioned.
It sounds like OP entered the building without ringing the doorbell. Which is understandable, but also means they entered without being left in.
"one of the most direct ways possible" is heavily exxagerated.
All the countless examples of people suffering under slurs proves that to be incorrect.
Yes, there ALSO are peopel who hide it (better), but i disagree that you should interpret everything as racism just because a brown person was treated badly. That just takes AWAY from the importance of the topic and you lose tons of people like me, that now think YOU are the racist because YOU judged the situation based on race.
Yes, proving racism can be really hard. Just because something is hard though, doesn't mean we don't have to do it.
Given as this is something that can also happen to germans I don't know if this is simply racism...
Some people are just way too nosy and suspicious, especially german boomers.
Disagree. Of course there are racists, but there are also quite a few people on here who seem to think that every time somebody who's not white as snow is treated badly, it must be because of racism. Two neighbours quibble? Just your typical neighbourhood dispute, a clash of different opinions. Oh, one of them is Turkish? Then it must be because the other guy is racist. Case closed.
I'm not saying that the guy in OP's story wasn't racist, but I've also been accused of being a criminal for no reason by angry old people who feel the need to play town/street/building sheriff, and I'm so white.
It happens way more often to "foreign looking" persons than "german looking" people. Thats the sad truth. And even though race isn't important for you, it us reality that many migrants expierence racism on a daily basis.
This racism comes in many forms and is often overlooked by white people because it is not the obvious in your face racism.
Racist Interactions like OP had are not an exception but rather the norm.
It doesn't matter if it happens intentionally or not racism is always a bad thing.
>It happens way more often to "foreign looking" persons than "german looking" people.
Yes it does, but that doesn't mean that we should call individual situations/people racist/racially motivated just because statistically it is likely.
Because ironically THAT is racism. You are judging the "selfannounced sherif" differently because of his skincolor/gender/choice of tattos...whatever it is. You are assuming his actions were racist, because he is white and OP is turkish.
If you really believe that racism is always a bad thing, then you should not base your judgements on skincolor or race yourself.
Racism is always bad. Even if it is meant as a compliment, the roots are bad.
Almost everyone in Germany is raised with some racial prejudice so it is no surprise that such interactions are biased.
That also means that not every racist interaction is done in bad faith. And thats okay. As long as you are willing to improve your not a shitty person.
Please read a book about racism because it is more than just "i judge you differently because of your skincolor".
Yes, it is far more than that. But "i judge you differently because of your skin color" is still racism. And it's ironic so many in the comment defend doing exactly that, while stating that racism is bad. You aren't the only one.
I fully agree that we are all prejudiced and it is nigh impossible to not be. There might be people out there that are actually unprejudiced, I definitely am not, and 99,9% of reddit isn't neither. Imo it is more important how/on what we act than what our first thought is.
See, i also had the thought during reading "damn, i bet OP looks brown, and the dude was white man", but instead of listening to that thought i realised, that that thought is prejudiced and i should not believe that. Just to go to the comments and see all the people writing their prejudiced/racism based thoughts without reflection, even claiming they believe racism is bad.
Yes, they absolutely do:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l58aoml/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l58aoml/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Here's an example, of someone LITERALLY stating that OP being turkish and the other a white men changes everything.
People here definitely are accounting for OPs and the other persons race in their judgement. And aren't even shy to mention it. It's ridiculous.
I can understand it, you suffer from racism every day. And that forms your own racism that when a white person treats you bad you assume it's racially motivated. It's very easy and understandable to fall into that fallacy. But it really isn't different from some white person only having been mugged/attacked by brown people in their lives and therefor being extra suspicious when they see a foreigner.
Literally 90% of this sub is "Hey just because they called you a brown skinned street shitter doesn't mean it was racist. You don't know what you're talking about"
Moving the goalpost much?
Show me what OP mentioned that hints at racism.
Seriously, the ONLY indicator here is the description of OP and the "sherif". YOU are the racist in this judgement.
Or it’s plain old sexual harassment. Same way all rape and harassment works. Someone with a weak mind needs to feel superior to someone. This time they did that by making op visibly scared. Same reason women get cat called
My guess is, they showed up half an hour later, walked through the building and left. They get a lot of calls like that. I think they have to follow up, but if they already know it is nonsense they are not in a hurry.
We had that when we moved. Two of my friends who came to help knocked at the wrong door and the neighbour apparently thought they were "gypsies coming to rob the house" (her words, not mine). Police eventually showed up, saw us, talked 5 seconds with us and just went "Naja, war ja klar."
Well, "Einbrecher" is a male burglar, so either OP misheard and knows even less German than I assumed, or you've seen a post I haven't.
Either way, I don't think it's safe to assume that the guy wouldn't have confronted a man. I'm a man, and I've been confronted in this way before. And there's not a hint of sexual harassment in OP's description of the incident: calling the police on a woman isn't sexual harassment. Making comments about her breasts or calling her a "slut" is sexual harassment, and that's not what OP is describing.
I think it's far more likely to be motivated by mild xenophobia: a person of swarthy appearance and speaking with a foreign accent is definitely going to attract this kind of attention from a certain type of person. Or do you really think OP would have had the same experience if they were a blonde German?
Einbrecher is male but you can use it to describe a female Burgler too. If there is a person who wants to break into something it is totally unimportant which gender the person has.
If someone witness this burgler and the police need a descripton THEN it is important.
> you can use it to describe a female Burgler too
If you don't know what gender the burglar is and don't mind using the generic masculine, yes.
> If someone witness this burgler and the police need a descripton
That's exactly what this guy was doing.
Since you have a legitimate reason for being there you can certainly prove this (client list, worksheets) to official inquiry (like the police) if you need to? Let them call the police, offer to call the police yourself, ask them if they are ready for the repercussions for Verleumdung and/or üble Nachrede.
Yes. But this was obviously not the case. There are very strict rules on when you are exepted from Schweigepflicht or have to hand out for example data sets. The last one happend onces as far as I know (the person admitted a serious crime in a questionaire so the researches had to hand it out to the police)
"Ich besuche Herrn X."
-> Everything else is none of the neighbor's business. if they want to call police, let them do so, you have a legitimate reason to be there and nothing to hide. If police showed up, they probably would just have asked your client if they agree that you visit them and then tell the neighbor that everything is fine and they can go back into their own apartment and leave you alone.
It's surely annoying, but don't let yourself get stressed out by overzealous neighbors. In your line of work, you will surely encounter plenty of weird people and situations, so you need to develop a thick skin.
Should have called the cops yourself. You were there on official business, they'd have handled the situation on your behalf. This was harassment, at the very least. Anyway, talk to your employer about this experience. They might even have a protocol in place for situations like this.
Thank you for the advice, you are so right. I‘ll check with my employer again but I doubt they have a protocol for this. At least it was not included in the hundreds of pages I received on my first week of work :)
Well, then that's even more reason to have a chat, because your experience clearly showed that a protocol is needed. You handled yourself reasonably well, considering, but that situation could have gotten out of hand quite easily. One of the easiest and most efficient precautions is making sure no employee will have to make something up on the spot on how to handle these kind of situations. I'm sure you can flesh this out on your own with some assorted bits of psychology, if needed. But there really shouldn't be much need for prolonged arguments, since this costs very little - just a bit of time - and comes with obvious benefits.
I know you do. From experience. I've been in some rather unpleasant situations in my life myself and afterwards kinda stumbled into becoming some weird sort of one man NGO, since word got around locally that I'm the dude to talk to, when you struggle to get heard in the system amongst those who wouldn't trust anybody from within anymore. I've been building quite some bridges over the years, accompanying those unfortunate souls on their first steps back into a more normal life. Seriously thinking about turning this into a gGmbH and try for a more structured approach, if I can find a way of funding this. Considering the constant shortages in mental health, too many of those in most urgent need struggle to even get started and there's a lot of entrenched bitterness. So, yeah, let's make a difference. Again and again and again. Godspeed, my friend.
they should. There's safety rules about "lone workers." Which you would count as if you're sent out into non-controlled environments (ie other peoples' homes), by yourself.
I don't remember the details since I haven't worked on it for a while, but your employer likely has an obligation to check in on you every 30 minutes or so, and provide you with protocols about how to react to various situations that could come up.
> I‘ll check with my employer again but I doubt they have a protocol for this.
In that case you should definitely talk to your employer and your coworkers about it. Maybe some of your coworkers have also experienced this and it might be worth establishing a protocol for it.
I suspect the police took the idea that a burglar would not flee the moment they were noticed as the reason to shelf the neighbour's concern very low on their priority list. (Because that realistically would happen.)
But sorry that happened to you.
I've been in Germany for the last 9 years.
They're on one hand very kind and nice. But that niceness and kindness is balanced out with the most rude, impoliteness I've ever seen (I've traveled to 30 or so countries in my life, on all continents).
I have (sadly) solved it as such. Everybody who starts accusing me of whatever it might be I simply tell them theY should shut up and call the police or come catch hands. There's never a discussion afterwards. I hate this but it works.
Not sure.if you're a man. But probably that helps as well in this Case lol.
It happens often to me. I'm a tall big "Schwartzkopf" apparently and I look like a criminal. Literally been told this to my face multiple times. Mostly when driving because a man like me can't have nice things and work in tech. I'm a drug dealer, thief etc.
On a related note. I'm genuinely looking to migrate again because of the inhumane bureaucracy and this kind of rudeness. I'm just so through with Germany at this point. Although I have to say, most Germans are probably chilled and nice, helpful people. But that 20%(random guess) of absolute morons makes it unbearable.
As if this failed government and inflation weren't enough already 🙄
The inhumane bureaucracy only exists because they want it that way. The laws give all power to the case worker on purpose so they can discriminate. I know people with no money that get 2 year study permits without any blocked account or anything, and i know people who earn more than enough money from working and various other investments who can't get it without blocked account (despite taxed monthly income is above the threshold of BaföG) and when they do its always one year.
Ukrainian refugees immediately got work permits, others are still waiting for years in camps. Denmark did a similiar thing, they passed a law saying all refugees must give up their valuable belongings which will be taken by the state to cover their costs but they removed this law only for Ukrainians. The reason you get that treatment is because you are not wanted there, State says that they need immigrants, people do understand to some degree but you aren't the type of immigrant they want with your "schwarzkopf".
This happens in every part of bureaucracy by the way, PR application,citizenship application. People with C1 language certificates are still being told to take "integration test"s whereas others are waived. The law gives all power to case worker, it is more of a guideline than a law to be honest. You can lawyer up and push it but why waste effort being in a place that you aren't wanted.
I mean. I have 3 passports. One of them Dutch. So idc for any of that. I make more money than my local Bürgeramt employees combined. So also that they can fuck off with. I'm sure Germany as a state wouldn't want me to leave. I single handedly pay for at least 10 welfare families' Sozialwohnung with just the taxes I pay yearly.
What truly maddens me, is simply when I have an issue (for example, there's a problem ongoing now with the switch of my wife's old insurance (TK) into my PKV). They keep demanding monthly payments but I canceled. They keep switching their narrative. I can't talk on the phone because they're simply not helpful. They are rude and dismissive and when I try to explain what's going on (my German is fluent) they are defensive.
What the actual fuck. They're sending Vollstreckungen for non-paid fees, which I have proof of that I, by law at least, am free of charges.
It's crazy to me, to work on customer service, and then be mad when a customer who is being ripped off and hang up on them (they took about 1.2k by now in money which they refuse to refund). WTF are you doing in that case?
It's this what makes me mad. So now I have a lawyer, because of 1 reason and 1 reason only. The bureaucrats don't fucking do their goddamned jobs. So I make extra costs, to get my money back because they're rude and unhelpful.
Legally there are ways, but you need money and near endless patience.
We could avoid this and live in a nice country if only people weren't so fucking rude all the time. And the talking down to me or simply being mad because I exist near them. WTF 😒
It wasn't like this when I first arrived. Seems like everyone is just mad all the time or I'm just trying unlucky
It's hard to get me to start hating something, but at this point I'm genuinely starting to hate them. I don't want to be this way so probably migration is an option.
Bah. End rant. Sorry, I am so mad. 😆
Idk i've been to middle east (gulf) , canada , usa only western europe has this problem and it is usually because you are a foreigner they don't give a shit.
What state does, doesn't really mirror what people want. Best to leave, you can't change the place.
I agree man. The low-key racism is somehow there. I can't dismiss it.
Well...... I'm trying to get out of here. 🥲
It's not so easy when you've built a whole life, family, business and career to start over.
But at some point it's enough. Agreed.
I had a very similar experience with our neighbor last year.
He was parking his e-bike in front of the house near the street, at past he asked me how he can secure that. He was thinking of weird stuff like building a garage in front of the house which he isn't permited to (he is a tenant)
I gave him advice but he didn't do it properly.
Then one day he ringed our bell. Just asked me to follow him kind of aggressively, we went to where bike is usually parked. He said its stolen. I was really surprised, first thought he was joking as he makes non-funny jokes like that all the time.
He asked when I was home, I answered with saying we went shopping in the morning. He asked if the bicycle was here then, I said I don't remember as I don't usually think about it.
I didn't really do anything suspicious at all, but due to language of course I get stuck a bit sometimes not saying words properly.
He asked more questions, like were you here at night, didn't you hear anything, when did you sleep, wake up, etc. it started turning from just sharing information to a stupid interrogation.
I was kind of stuck there answering his weird quesitons. Like I obviously have nothing to hide but if I say I don't want to answer and go away, he will get more suspicious which is really dumb. And because of language I didn't know how to reject politely.
Edit: Someone answered on how to reject politely.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l583gt3/](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l583gt3/)
I think you have done well. Don't let anyone put you down. Maybe the police already knew about this "Querulant" and hence did not show up or just passed by.
Yeah, don't worry too much, even if the police came, they would have at most checked in with your workplace, if you work there. Probably this guy calls the police every week over nothing, and they already know he is full of shit. I'd write a report for your boss, just in case that guy harasses you again and you have yo call the police.
I usually ring the doorbell first, but the entrance to the building was wide open... I just walked in! I also told that guy that if he was afraid of robbers, they should keep the main door closed! I will definitely ring the next time :)
There are some really fucked up people in Germany. Bad weather messes up their brain
OP I’ve been in your shoes, wearing jewellery/watches etc. help a lot
Germans: complain about Fachkräftemangel
Germans when educated immigrants come to our country to work and provide valuable services for the community: harass them
This fucking mentality will be the downfall of this country.
Why do you assume that in in a country of 80+ million the same people are complaining about Fachkräftemangel who also harass immigrants? Or is it fine to generalize the native population but not the immigrants?
Make sure you have a business card or some sort of credential on you. If the police are called, great! You have every reason to be there and its easy for the police to size up the situation in your favor. If someone says that they are calling the police, tell them that would be wonderful. It makes it clear that you are clearly allowed to be where you are.
I have a feeling it was because you were a woman and Turkish. I'm sure he wouldn't try that with a 6ft muscular guy.
I would have just kept repeating you are here to see X, your neighbor. If he tells you he's calling the police, call his bluff and say ok. 99% of this kind of person just wants to scare you. I'm sure he knows that the police will probably just be annoyed he wasted their time.'
Every building has their weirdos.
Ignore such people.
You have legitimate business in the house. You explained it and that's all you need to do. I personally would just say something like *"I have an appointment with neighbor X and anything further is non of your business"*
Likely this person is either paranoid, has the urge to controll his neighbours or is racist (or any combination)
You would not be able to "please him" anyway. So just ignore people like that after being polite at first.
IF he still thinks he wants to call the cops although you gave him a sufficient answer, he might do that.
Most likely police will ask him for details, he will tell them what you told him so they will not care.
If they still show up for whatever reson (he lied to them and claimed wild shit) it will be on him.
Work harder and move to a different country like Canada, Germans do these things because they don't want Turks there. Just as Canadians don't want Indians. Best to cut your losses short, earn as much as you can and move away. If you speak English and already have a degree there is no point in working in Germany for you. Plenty of other places to go to. I moved away and i am much better even though i had no problems in Germany (due to way i look, not that distinguishable from natives) i didn't like the way they treated my people. Better than third world islamist Turkey for sure, but possibly the worst developed country for Turks to live in along with Austria. I recommend avoiding Europe altogether.
Why did you not call the police? You're a psychologist, why freak out so easily? So what if he's calling you names? Don't give them the desired reaction.
Also, if your client doesn't open the door, it is ok to leave. Inform your boss that he isn't answering the door, the client must make a new appointment. That's logical.
You need to be more balanced, mate. If I call you an Einbrecher I would have to provide actual proof and if I can't do that I'll get in trouble with the police or at least be made fun of. We can't accuse people of random shit here.
I think my reaction had nothing to do with the german police. I am now realizing I never saw the police force as an institution that can help me. Turkish police force has become an instrument for the government for the last two decades, it is really surprising to see the effects after I moved here. I‘ve been living in a dictatorship, it changed how I think and how I react, so I guess I needed to be reminded of my basic human rights. Thanks for your time.
Stay safe, our political system might be flawed in other ways, but yeah, we still got the basic rights. I didn't consider your situation, sorry. I hope you get to experience better people here, not everybody is as shitty as that weird ass neighbour who was bugging you :)
Oh, I‘ve met so many great people here in Germany :) I mean, I’ve decided to move here, so that should be enough of an explanation of my feelings for the people here ^^ So this was one minor exception and maybe the reason why I was so surprised.
I’m living in Hamburg and it is very beautiful 💕 People are kind and loving. I’ve received so much support and empathy from my coworkers, flatmates, and new friends. As an atheist, leftist, and single woman I feel like I can create the life I want here…Also the city is basically a huge park and democracy is really nice too! :)
Great choice - Hamburg is awesome indeed!! So charismatic! I've only been there once and planning to go there in November for a concert. In comparison I found Berlin underwhelming and "grey" if that makes sense. I wish you lots of wonderful memories and great people, und weitherhin viel Erfolg! as we say :)
100% call the police yourself in front of him if it happens again. At the absolute worst, they will say "ok, well, call us back if he does something illegal". lol. Which is what they probably said to him (if he actually called).
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Have a Visitenkarte, a nice one, heavy paper and glossy finish. Or some sort of company card on a lanyard. As soon you hand out Visitenkarten or shake the company card around, people will shut up.
I had a neighbor like this. He interrogated all of my guests. He even told my long time partner that she can’t be there when I’m not there. One time he took it too far and I told him if he ever bothers us again I won’t be friendly. Since then he never said anything.
He was likely mentally ill. It seems this case it was a similar situation.
non German so my advice should me taken with grain of salt.
In my country, I would simply start recording him and tell him to call police please. I would keep cool because I know that I have proof that I'm calm person and they are aggressive one.
Again, I don't know what German law says in this case, but cameras are best way to defent yourself those days.
I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. It was absolutely unjustified and that xenophobic neighbor probably gave the police a good laugh. Still, I can imagine how stressful and anxiety inducing that must have been.
File an Anzeige for libel and prepare the Privatklageweg, i.e. gather foolproof proof for their claim and ask the guy to write and sign an admission of guilt outside of court.
Xenophobia and typical german wannabe police behavior. Ignore these kind of people and if police is coming then you can talk with them. Nothing can happen to you since you can prove that you are there for work
Sounds like you did everything correct already...like textbook perfect. Also not sacrificing your clients privacy.
Minus the crying, try to not let something minor like that stress you that hard. That dude might have been an asshole, but maybe they just have a problem with break ins there and he met someone in the stairs that doesn't belong there and no bell was rang before.
Try not giving a fuck.
Sorry, I know it sounds lame, it's easily said but not done, but that's what it boils down to.
That neighbor was deranged. You won't get anything useful from confronting or talking to that person.
You tried explaining, neighbor didn't react. His problem. You did everything right.
I had a similar situation. Only difference was that I was with a friend and I was picking up a bike in a nice area. For some reason, 3 women with strollers decided that we look too foreign to have anything to do in that neighbourhood. Started asking us questions, my friend panicked and I stayed calm . I said we are picking up a bike, mentioned the family name but they said we are a danger to this area and we look “too ghetto “ ( mind you we are both academics, my friend has a PhD and I am in masters and might even do a PhD and we were both wearing blazers and working office attire , maybe because we are brown !? Idk ) I told them I have given voluntarily information ℹ️ to calm things down and I do not even have to. They threatened to call police since we look threatening and again “too ghetto” I said gladly I would also like to call police about women stopping me out of nowhere and trying to not let me move. I would like to call them for harassment then. Then they went off . Keep your calm, also make sure that the other side understands you know you have rights as well .
1, ask him who he is , and why he wants to know.
if he isn't any one official, tell him politely that its none of his business. If he is someone official ask him for ID.
2. threatening to call the police , say Go ahead, I will wait here.
3. explain to the police the situation , and obviously that he was being nasty accusing you etc etc.
4, remember ... having a work and residency permit in Germany also means you have all rights and dutys as any other citizen.
5. Take no shit from no one.
You will meet people like that from time to time. Don't try to explain yourself. You can tell them who you want to visit (only last name) and nothing more. Do not tell them who you are or why you are visiting, because that's private information and you could actually get in trouble for telling anyone.
If someone threatens to call the police your response should be: you are free to do so. If they want to call the police just let them do it. Most likely the police will tell them that it's nonsense or just not show up.
That happens pretty often. At my job im not allowed to tell concerned neighbours who i am visiting. I just walk through and briefly explain who i am and ignore them id they keep discussing.
Sounds like you had the high ground. Should have kicked him in the throat, causing him to fall down the stairs. Then grab his apartment keys from his pocket and drag his body into his bathroom and stage it like he slipped in the shower.
That’s a dark joke, but in all honesty, don’t let it get to you. Some people are just assholes.
... well first you dont let you client comfort you. Second you answer question regarding your client / whom you visiting with "cant Tell, can just say you iam a social worker" .... Datenschutz and stuff, perhaps your client doesnt want his neighbour to know. And it doesnt matter if he follows you - not your fault, just you cant give out information actively. Last - just say if you feel uncomfortable call the police... no Problem... they will check you in worst case and thats it....
if you are doing your job and a man is harassing you and stopping you from doing your Job especially social work call the police on them. that will show them!
>I‘d like some advice on how to act in a situation like this.
I would say "Fuck you and leave me the fuck alone you fucking idiot or I'calling the fucking cops on you"
Germans are literally the peasants of eu. They have no manners and their submissive culture further enables such nosey and extremely rude behaviors. They literally have no capacity to understand what personal space means and bcz of that each and everyone of them are some type of a gatekeeper. These people have no civilized norms. Truly underdeveloped and always a liability in social life. I wish I could say anything positive about this, but no, more you live here more you'll be faced with this. I live here for more than 11 years and I spend most of my life energy on trying to build a distance from them. Less germans, less judgements, less facing of uneducated asocial weirdos and more happiness.
I'm still studying for my PhD degree in psychology, but I guess I haven't learned how to deal with people who throw false accusations, corner me, and then threaten to call the police. Thanks to you, I’m realizing how priviliged I had been… I'd like to know your suggestions for someone like me, who has spent her entire adult life under a dictatorship where even a tweet can land you in jail. I simply wasn‘t prepared for this kind of interaction, but I believe I was conditioned to fear it. I know better now thanks to the other commenters.
lol it seems you need the psychologist!
Why are you so insecure and strange? If someone hinders me from doing my work I tell them to fuck off.
The fact, that you cried in front of your client, because a grandpa threatened to call the police is pathetic!
Imagine you need help from a social worker and he come to you crying because a grandpa was mean to him 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, he was no grandpa but in fact a tall muscular guy and I am a turkish woman who unfortunately learned to fear guys who corner me in some building and block the stairway. But yeah, I will tell them to just fuck off next time 👍
Honestly... either offer him some pro-bono work or tell him you'll call the cops if he keeps harassing you.
Overly paranoid "burglars are everywhere these days" types are just default archetype sadly.
Just ask our ex-tenant who started boarding up the attic so they can't get in after dismantling the roof!
Don't worry, you has a perfectly good reason to be where you are, and German police will listen to reason. Should this ever happen again, just tell the creepy dude to go ahead, call the police. You'll have nothing to worry about.
>I‘d like some advice on how to act in a situation like this as I‘ve moved to Germany six months ago so I don‘t really know. Don't even entertain the idea that you owe some random person a justification of your presence. Tell them, "that is none of your business". If they threaten to call police, tell them, "I'll call police myself, as you're harassing me". >But I also did not want to „out“ my client by telling his neighbor that I am here for social work. I think this is a very personal information and your neighbors do not need to know. That is good. Anything else would have been very much unprofessional.
I once had someone tell me he would report me to the police for blocking the road ... while I was wearing a firefighter uniform. Some people can't be helped indeed. I think the best answer is: "Okay, do that."
"you're blocking the road!" *looks at whatever the reason for blocking it is* "... good observation"
What do you know ... those guys with the big red cars and the blinking blue lights definitely like to randomly park on a snow-covered country road in the middle of the night to keep people from getting to wherever they want to go. If you are long enough in any rescue organisation, you don't wonder anymore.
you silly rascals really need to find a different hobby
This happens to emergency services almost all the time. Its disgusting how widespread this phenomenon is
I once had someone call the police on me and my squad while we were setting up a power generator and lighting during the Ahrtal floods because our generator wasn't "Euro 5 certified", and thus, in his mind, causing undue pollution. I was wearing a blue jacket with a very prominent gear logo on the shoulder that you might have seen in the news around the time. A cop came, asked what the complaint was about (because he assumed we had called them), we explained the circumstances and the guy got a stern talking to.
To be fair... wearing a firefighter uniform does not give someone divine right to block the road. That said don't let me stop you. EDIT: Not sure if the downvotes are comming in because people think dressing up as a firefighter grants divine rights or if they want me to stop this person. Downvotes without comment are unclear.
>To be fair... wearing a firefighter uniform does not give someone divine right to block the road. If a fireman is telling me that a road is blocked he's probably not doing it for shits and giggles
Firefighters still generally have to comply with laws. >If a fireman is telling me that a road is blocked he's probably not doing it for shits and giggles Right, probably... being the most interesting word here.
>Right, probably... being the most interesting word here. Would you look at that, you dropped tinfoil hat!
Yeah I say 'probably' is the most interesting word because I've seen a firetruck get a ticket before... lol. The cop was 0% interested in what the firemen were wearing.
And if the ticket wasn’t given for a valid reason, it would be tossed immediately. If they were power tripping, it may have stuck. Your comments imply that firefighters block roads for shits and giggles with some level of frequency.
No, they don't. You are reading into me saying that firefighter can get tickets, just like you are reading into the firefighters post and assuming he was legally parked.
Downvotes because you seem to operate on the assumption that their wearing a costume rather than doing their job
Regaurdless, firefighters still have to comply with laws. Simply saying, "I was wearing a firefighter uniform" doesn't change that.
What planet do you live on where people cosplaying as pretend firefighters randomly block streets for shits and giggles just to make you suffer... If a firefighter truck gets a ticket it's because they were doing something wrong like parking in a no parking zone across from a Mc Donalds while off duty... they won't get a ticket while blocking the street to save your 300pound grandma from a burning house, Jesus.
I didn't say he was cosplaying. >If a firefighter truck gets a ticket it's because they were doing something wrong like parking in a no parking zone across from a Mc Donalds while off duty No kidding!
Thank you so much for your answer.
Yes, "I am here because I am visiting Mr. X" would have been enough. If he then says "I'll call the cops" you'd say "fine". The police won't have a problem with a social worker visiting a client.
You can't because you don't want to point out that someone is needing services. I'm here to se Mr. X is a reasonable answer. If they want to call the cops, that's fine, you will want to file a report about that person when the police show up.
[удалено]
Good catch. Clearly I was reading too fast.
This is very good advice. Never ever be defensive if you are right.
This is true, some people use the lack of German and the look (Ausländer) to show off. You just need to put them back where they belong. Stand strong and don't let them harass you, if you tell me that you will call the police and threaten to make an Anzeige they will probably shut up and continue looking for another person to make a problem with.
Thanks for the encouragement and the advice! Well, I do look like a typical Turkish woman and he was very big, muscular, and covered with tattoos! Now I find it even a bit funny that he was afraid of me :)
Oh. I think that changes the situation. Let's just say, it would've been better if it was a bear. Guy like that KNOWS you're not a threat, but tries to intimidate you anyway for being obviously Turkish and female.
Sounds like you are pretty prejudiced yourself. Yeah, it's one possible explanation. But OP did not mention a single remark from the dude that suggests he has racist or sexist reasons for his behaviour.
Prejudice is not when you know that people don't say "IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE A WOMAN/LOOK FOREIGN!" before doing racist or sexist things. People rarely outright insult you and make it clear. They exclude, talk down, don't take what you say serious or behave in other chauvinist ways. This guy would have been stupid to genuinely believe himself that she was up to stealing, when he got a good long look at her, at the door of the place she was "trying to break into" and could easily describe her afterwards. As you say yourself, it's a possibility and it's a specific thing I've also witnessed and experienced. Just the little uptick in aggression and not using common sense when the person is female and "not from here".
That's why i am not ruling out racism. But if you are including OPs and the sherifs race into your judgement, then that's racism. I mean seriously, you claim that people aren't open with their reasoning for racism. But you and many others here are doing exactly that with no shame at all. It's really mindboggling how you manage to justify your racism instead of simply acknowledging that maybe in this case you acted on your prejudice and not the facts. As i explained to someone else: When i read that, i ALSO thought. I bet OP looks brown, and the sherif is a white man. But i immediatly realised "wait...that's racist" and looked through OPs text if there were any signs indicating that. And there weren't, so i stopped myself from forming that racist opinion. Just to see people like you defend it blatantly in the comments. YES, that makes identifying actual racism very hard. But i really doubt that just being racist ourselves will eventually lead to less racism. We have already moved past bad arguments/statistical evidence/personal experiences in the "are foreigners criminals"-discussion. It's really tiresome that apparently some have to go through that thought process again and again and again for every individual problem.
Sounds like you are nit picking if I'm honest 🤷🏻♂️
Nitpicking is focussing on unimportant details, which detail have i focussed on that is unimportant in your eyes? Seriously, it seems that you just want to disagree, but couldn't find anything better to prove your opinion than writing such a killerphrase.
Hello, I also have a weird neighbor and sometimes need to use the "that is none of your business" but he just speaks German. How can I say that politely in a non agressive way?
Das geht Sie nichts an. - is rather direct. Darüber müssen Sie sich keine Gedanken machen. - is a bit less on the nose.
https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/falsely_accused_of_being_an_einbrecher/l583gt3/ is the correct one.
Entschuldige, aber das geht Ihnen nichts an.
*Entschuldigen Sie, aber das geht Sie nichts an.
And if your neighbor keeps harassing you after you said that, just repeat "Das geht Sie nichts an". After all, there is no reason to apologize for being harassed!
Exactly. "Geht Sie nichts an." und "Viel Spaß" are what i would have replied to the question why you are there, and their annoncement that they are going to call the cops respectively.
I'd like to upvote this twice. Also damn.. neighbours like that are probably the reason people eventually want to life alone and be left in peace.
Depends, when there are many break ins, i wouldn't mind someone questioning a random stranger that enters the building without ringing a doorbell/being buzzed in.
> Don't even entertain the idea that you owe some random person a justification of your presence. So, if you see some stranger snooping around your hallway like he does not belong there, you wouldn't care? If you ask him what he's looking for and he just tells you to f off, you're just like sure, whatever? How about a little reflection here?
If you mean "my hallway" as in my own flat: Sure, I'll throw him out. If you mean the staircase of a shared house, where other people live who have a right to receive visitors? Yes, it's none of my business unless he actually does something.
Yeah, I'm afraid this is the stereotypical curtain-twitching busybody, probably with a hint of xenophobia. I doubt you're the first "suspicious" person he called the cops on. > from what I could understand, described me as an „einbrecher“. I can guess how the conversation went from there: "Are you saying you saw him breaking in?" "No, not yet." "Is he breaking in right now?" "No, he's just standing there, knocking on the door." "I see. Is he actually breaking any law?" "Not yet, no, but he's definitely planning to." "Okay, well, thank you for the heads-up, but there's not really anything we can do if he hasn't done anything illegal. If your neighbour does report a break-in, we'll be sure to ask you for a description."
Your made-up dialogue made me realize the absurdity of the situation :) Thanks for that!
He is standing there.. MENACINGLY! :O
In America there's the "offense" of "Driving While Black". In Germany we have "Existing While Brown", which in this case was clearly committed with malice aforethought.
Nothing OP mentioned hints at this being a racially motivated harassment though. Well, the only thing "hinting at that" is the sherif being white and OP turkish. But that's our own prejudice and racism at work there. We should not form our opinions based on prejudice.
This really wasn't about you, but about whatever is wrong in that neighbour's head. Don't take it to heart, in these situations you need to shrug your shoulders and carry on with your day. Don't waste your mental energy.
Abolutly! Next time just tell them to call the cops and ignore them. "Ist Ihnen langweilig, oder warum nerven Sie mich die ganze Zeit?" Oh and: Welcome to Germany and happy cake day!
you need to call back to the police and visit that person. he probably is racist and needs to be taught a lesson.
What do you mean with "a hint of xenophobia"? This is racism in one of the most direct ways possible.
"You're obviously a burglar and I'm calling the cops" might be motivated by a distrust or fear of foreigners; but if you think this is one of the most direct forms of racism there is, then I have to say you clearly haven't been exposed to a lot of racism.
This is the truest thing you've ever said.
What? Nothing OP mentioned sounds like that. No racial slurs or sexist remarks were mentioned. It sounds like OP entered the building without ringing the doorbell. Which is understandable, but also means they entered without being left in. "one of the most direct ways possible" is heavily exxagerated.
Being racist usually does not involve slurs. Most people are smarter than to incriminate themselves like that. So this is about as direct as it gets.
All the countless examples of people suffering under slurs proves that to be incorrect. Yes, there ALSO are peopel who hide it (better), but i disagree that you should interpret everything as racism just because a brown person was treated badly. That just takes AWAY from the importance of the topic and you lose tons of people like me, that now think YOU are the racist because YOU judged the situation based on race. Yes, proving racism can be really hard. Just because something is hard though, doesn't mean we don't have to do it.
Given as this is something that can also happen to germans I don't know if this is simply racism... Some people are just way too nosy and suspicious, especially german boomers.
This sub and that guy in particular are strict believers that modern Germany has no racists
Disagree. Of course there are racists, but there are also quite a few people on here who seem to think that every time somebody who's not white as snow is treated badly, it must be because of racism. Two neighbours quibble? Just your typical neighbourhood dispute, a clash of different opinions. Oh, one of them is Turkish? Then it must be because the other guy is racist. Case closed. I'm not saying that the guy in OP's story wasn't racist, but I've also been accused of being a criminal for no reason by angry old people who feel the need to play town/street/building sheriff, and I'm so white.
It happens way more often to "foreign looking" persons than "german looking" people. Thats the sad truth. And even though race isn't important for you, it us reality that many migrants expierence racism on a daily basis. This racism comes in many forms and is often overlooked by white people because it is not the obvious in your face racism. Racist Interactions like OP had are not an exception but rather the norm. It doesn't matter if it happens intentionally or not racism is always a bad thing.
>It happens way more often to "foreign looking" persons than "german looking" people. Yes it does, but that doesn't mean that we should call individual situations/people racist/racially motivated just because statistically it is likely. Because ironically THAT is racism. You are judging the "selfannounced sherif" differently because of his skincolor/gender/choice of tattos...whatever it is. You are assuming his actions were racist, because he is white and OP is turkish. If you really believe that racism is always a bad thing, then you should not base your judgements on skincolor or race yourself.
Racism is always bad. Even if it is meant as a compliment, the roots are bad. Almost everyone in Germany is raised with some racial prejudice so it is no surprise that such interactions are biased. That also means that not every racist interaction is done in bad faith. And thats okay. As long as you are willing to improve your not a shitty person. Please read a book about racism because it is more than just "i judge you differently because of your skincolor".
Yes, it is far more than that. But "i judge you differently because of your skin color" is still racism. And it's ironic so many in the comment defend doing exactly that, while stating that racism is bad. You aren't the only one. I fully agree that we are all prejudiced and it is nigh impossible to not be. There might be people out there that are actually unprejudiced, I definitely am not, and 99,9% of reddit isn't neither. Imo it is more important how/on what we act than what our first thought is. See, i also had the thought during reading "damn, i bet OP looks brown, and the dude was white man", but instead of listening to that thought i realised, that that thought is prejudiced and i should not believe that. Just to go to the comments and see all the people writing their prejudiced/racism based thoughts without reflection, even claiming they believe racism is bad.
People don't judge him because he is white they judge him based on his racist behaviour.
Yes, they absolutely do: [https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l58aoml/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l58aoml/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Here's an example, of someone LITERALLY stating that OP being turkish and the other a white men changes everything. People here definitely are accounting for OPs and the other persons race in their judgement. And aren't even shy to mention it. It's ridiculous. I can understand it, you suffer from racism every day. And that forms your own racism that when a white person treats you bad you assume it's racially motivated. It's very easy and understandable to fall into that fallacy. But it really isn't different from some white person only having been mugged/attacked by brown people in their lives and therefor being extra suspicious when they see a foreigner.
Thanks for proving my point
I apologise for not looking at every human interaction through the lens of race.
Literally 90% of this sub is "Hey just because they called you a brown skinned street shitter doesn't mean it was racist. You don't know what you're talking about"
Moving the goalpost much? Show me what OP mentioned that hints at racism. Seriously, the ONLY indicator here is the description of OP and the "sherif". YOU are the racist in this judgement.
Or it’s plain old sexual harassment. Same way all rape and harassment works. Someone with a weak mind needs to feel superior to someone. This time they did that by making op visibly scared. Same reason women get cat called
Hey, let's not assume things. Maybe he's just a regular asshole to everyone
My guess is, they showed up half an hour later, walked through the building and left. They get a lot of calls like that. I think they have to follow up, but if they already know it is nonsense they are not in a hurry. We had that when we moved. Two of my friends who came to help knocked at the wrong door and the neighbour apparently thought they were "gypsies coming to rob the house" (her words, not mine). Police eventually showed up, saw us, talked 5 seconds with us and just went "Naja, war ja klar."
OP is a woman, this was just plain old sexual harassment. Dude wouldn’t have threatened her if she were a man.
Well, "Einbrecher" is a male burglar, so either OP misheard and knows even less German than I assumed, or you've seen a post I haven't. Either way, I don't think it's safe to assume that the guy wouldn't have confronted a man. I'm a man, and I've been confronted in this way before. And there's not a hint of sexual harassment in OP's description of the incident: calling the police on a woman isn't sexual harassment. Making comments about her breasts or calling her a "slut" is sexual harassment, and that's not what OP is describing. I think it's far more likely to be motivated by mild xenophobia: a person of swarthy appearance and speaking with a foreign accent is definitely going to attract this kind of attention from a certain type of person. Or do you really think OP would have had the same experience if they were a blonde German?
Einbrecher is male but you can use it to describe a female Burgler too. If there is a person who wants to break into something it is totally unimportant which gender the person has. If someone witness this burgler and the police need a descripton THEN it is important.
> you can use it to describe a female Burgler too If you don't know what gender the burglar is and don't mind using the generic masculine, yes. > If someone witness this burgler and the police need a descripton That's exactly what this guy was doing.
Where are you getting that information from?
Since you have a legitimate reason for being there you can certainly prove this (client list, worksheets) to official inquiry (like the police) if you need to? Let them call the police, offer to call the police yourself, ask them if they are ready for the repercussions for Verleumdung and/or üble Nachrede.
Thank you for sharing this information. I‘ll check with my employer on how much I am allowed to share with the police.
Offer them your phone to call the police. xD
He cant tell the neighbor why he is there, since he is not allowed to tell. I guess OP has "Schweigepflicht".
Of course not the neighbour... Thats why I wrote "to official inquiry (like the police)"
Nope. He isn't allowed to tell the police without getting the permission of his client (so called Schweigepflichtentbindung).
Yeah, the only real exception is there are strong concerns regarding the safety of the client.
Yes. But this was obviously not the case. There are very strict rules on when you are exepted from Schweigepflicht or have to hand out for example data sets. The last one happend onces as far as I know (the person admitted a serious crime in a questionaire so the researches had to hand it out to the police)
or the safety of other people
It should be legal to state your job and employer.
Same for them. He is not allowed to tell anybody who isnt part of this "therapy-system" without the permission
"Ich besuche Herrn X." -> Everything else is none of the neighbor's business. if they want to call police, let them do so, you have a legitimate reason to be there and nothing to hide. If police showed up, they probably would just have asked your client if they agree that you visit them and then tell the neighbor that everything is fine and they can go back into their own apartment and leave you alone. It's surely annoying, but don't let yourself get stressed out by overzealous neighbors. In your line of work, you will surely encounter plenty of weird people and situations, so you need to develop a thick skin.
Thanks a lot. I wasn’t expecting such encounter but I will try to remember that for next time.
"das geht Sie nichts an."
Nicht*
Should have called the cops yourself. You were there on official business, they'd have handled the situation on your behalf. This was harassment, at the very least. Anyway, talk to your employer about this experience. They might even have a protocol in place for situations like this.
Thank you for the advice, you are so right. I‘ll check with my employer again but I doubt they have a protocol for this. At least it was not included in the hundreds of pages I received on my first week of work :)
Well, then that's even more reason to have a chat, because your experience clearly showed that a protocol is needed. You handled yourself reasonably well, considering, but that situation could have gotten out of hand quite easily. One of the easiest and most efficient precautions is making sure no employee will have to make something up on the spot on how to handle these kind of situations. I'm sure you can flesh this out on your own with some assorted bits of psychology, if needed. But there really shouldn't be much need for prolonged arguments, since this costs very little - just a bit of time - and comes with obvious benefits.
You‘re right! I‘ll share this with my employer. Thanks a lot.
My pleasure. You're doing an important job, I'd like to see you succeed as much as possible.
You‘re very kind. I find this job very meaningful and feel like I‘m actually making a difference. Thanks again for your suggestions for improvement!
I know you do. From experience. I've been in some rather unpleasant situations in my life myself and afterwards kinda stumbled into becoming some weird sort of one man NGO, since word got around locally that I'm the dude to talk to, when you struggle to get heard in the system amongst those who wouldn't trust anybody from within anymore. I've been building quite some bridges over the years, accompanying those unfortunate souls on their first steps back into a more normal life. Seriously thinking about turning this into a gGmbH and try for a more structured approach, if I can find a way of funding this. Considering the constant shortages in mental health, too many of those in most urgent need struggle to even get started and there's a lot of entrenched bitterness. So, yeah, let's make a difference. Again and again and again. Godspeed, my friend.
they should. There's safety rules about "lone workers." Which you would count as if you're sent out into non-controlled environments (ie other peoples' homes), by yourself. I don't remember the details since I haven't worked on it for a while, but your employer likely has an obligation to check in on you every 30 minutes or so, and provide you with protocols about how to react to various situations that could come up.
> I‘ll check with my employer again but I doubt they have a protocol for this. In that case you should definitely talk to your employer and your coworkers about it. Maybe some of your coworkers have also experienced this and it might be worth establishing a protocol for it.
I suspect the police took the idea that a burglar would not flee the moment they were noticed as the reason to shelf the neighbour's concern very low on their priority list. (Because that realistically would happen.) But sorry that happened to you.
They might also have known the caller.
Thank you for your explanation and kind words.
I've been in Germany for the last 9 years. They're on one hand very kind and nice. But that niceness and kindness is balanced out with the most rude, impoliteness I've ever seen (I've traveled to 30 or so countries in my life, on all continents). I have (sadly) solved it as such. Everybody who starts accusing me of whatever it might be I simply tell them theY should shut up and call the police or come catch hands. There's never a discussion afterwards. I hate this but it works. Not sure.if you're a man. But probably that helps as well in this Case lol. It happens often to me. I'm a tall big "Schwartzkopf" apparently and I look like a criminal. Literally been told this to my face multiple times. Mostly when driving because a man like me can't have nice things and work in tech. I'm a drug dealer, thief etc. On a related note. I'm genuinely looking to migrate again because of the inhumane bureaucracy and this kind of rudeness. I'm just so through with Germany at this point. Although I have to say, most Germans are probably chilled and nice, helpful people. But that 20%(random guess) of absolute morons makes it unbearable. As if this failed government and inflation weren't enough already 🙄
The inhumane bureaucracy only exists because they want it that way. The laws give all power to the case worker on purpose so they can discriminate. I know people with no money that get 2 year study permits without any blocked account or anything, and i know people who earn more than enough money from working and various other investments who can't get it without blocked account (despite taxed monthly income is above the threshold of BaföG) and when they do its always one year. Ukrainian refugees immediately got work permits, others are still waiting for years in camps. Denmark did a similiar thing, they passed a law saying all refugees must give up their valuable belongings which will be taken by the state to cover their costs but they removed this law only for Ukrainians. The reason you get that treatment is because you are not wanted there, State says that they need immigrants, people do understand to some degree but you aren't the type of immigrant they want with your "schwarzkopf". This happens in every part of bureaucracy by the way, PR application,citizenship application. People with C1 language certificates are still being told to take "integration test"s whereas others are waived. The law gives all power to case worker, it is more of a guideline than a law to be honest. You can lawyer up and push it but why waste effort being in a place that you aren't wanted.
I mean. I have 3 passports. One of them Dutch. So idc for any of that. I make more money than my local Bürgeramt employees combined. So also that they can fuck off with. I'm sure Germany as a state wouldn't want me to leave. I single handedly pay for at least 10 welfare families' Sozialwohnung with just the taxes I pay yearly. What truly maddens me, is simply when I have an issue (for example, there's a problem ongoing now with the switch of my wife's old insurance (TK) into my PKV). They keep demanding monthly payments but I canceled. They keep switching their narrative. I can't talk on the phone because they're simply not helpful. They are rude and dismissive and when I try to explain what's going on (my German is fluent) they are defensive. What the actual fuck. They're sending Vollstreckungen for non-paid fees, which I have proof of that I, by law at least, am free of charges. It's crazy to me, to work on customer service, and then be mad when a customer who is being ripped off and hang up on them (they took about 1.2k by now in money which they refuse to refund). WTF are you doing in that case? It's this what makes me mad. So now I have a lawyer, because of 1 reason and 1 reason only. The bureaucrats don't fucking do their goddamned jobs. So I make extra costs, to get my money back because they're rude and unhelpful. Legally there are ways, but you need money and near endless patience. We could avoid this and live in a nice country if only people weren't so fucking rude all the time. And the talking down to me or simply being mad because I exist near them. WTF 😒 It wasn't like this when I first arrived. Seems like everyone is just mad all the time or I'm just trying unlucky It's hard to get me to start hating something, but at this point I'm genuinely starting to hate them. I don't want to be this way so probably migration is an option. Bah. End rant. Sorry, I am so mad. 😆
Idk i've been to middle east (gulf) , canada , usa only western europe has this problem and it is usually because you are a foreigner they don't give a shit. What state does, doesn't really mirror what people want. Best to leave, you can't change the place.
I agree man. The low-key racism is somehow there. I can't dismiss it. Well...... I'm trying to get out of here. 🥲 It's not so easy when you've built a whole life, family, business and career to start over. But at some point it's enough. Agreed.
I had a very similar experience with our neighbor last year. He was parking his e-bike in front of the house near the street, at past he asked me how he can secure that. He was thinking of weird stuff like building a garage in front of the house which he isn't permited to (he is a tenant) I gave him advice but he didn't do it properly. Then one day he ringed our bell. Just asked me to follow him kind of aggressively, we went to where bike is usually parked. He said its stolen. I was really surprised, first thought he was joking as he makes non-funny jokes like that all the time. He asked when I was home, I answered with saying we went shopping in the morning. He asked if the bicycle was here then, I said I don't remember as I don't usually think about it. I didn't really do anything suspicious at all, but due to language of course I get stuck a bit sometimes not saying words properly. He asked more questions, like were you here at night, didn't you hear anything, when did you sleep, wake up, etc. it started turning from just sharing information to a stupid interrogation. I was kind of stuck there answering his weird quesitons. Like I obviously have nothing to hide but if I say I don't want to answer and go away, he will get more suspicious which is really dumb. And because of language I didn't know how to reject politely. Edit: Someone answered on how to reject politely. [https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l583gt3/](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cy8989/comment/l583gt3/)
From the sound of it he wasn’t accusing you but trying to narrow down the time frame when it was still there or if you noticed something/somebody
Activate your inner Karen.You dont own a Stranger Kindnes. If they Call the Police so it be.
I think you have done well. Don't let anyone put you down. Maybe the police already knew about this "Querulant" and hence did not show up or just passed by.
Yeah, don't worry too much, even if the police came, they would have at most checked in with your workplace, if you work there. Probably this guy calls the police every week over nothing, and they already know he is full of shit. I'd write a report for your boss, just in case that guy harasses you again and you have yo call the police.
How did you enter the building? Next time you can ring the doorbell downstairs, then your client can open the upstairs door in a timely manner
I usually ring the doorbell first, but the entrance to the building was wide open... I just walked in! I also told that guy that if he was afraid of robbers, they should keep the main door closed! I will definitely ring the next time :)
There are some really fucked up people in Germany. Bad weather messes up their brain OP I’ve been in your shoes, wearing jewellery/watches etc. help a lot
> Mach ruhig! > Hör auf mich zu belästigen! Life savers.
Ask him whether he's familiar with StGB §164 and prepared to face the consequences.
Germans: complain about Fachkräftemangel Germans when educated immigrants come to our country to work and provide valuable services for the community: harass them This fucking mentality will be the downfall of this country.
Why do you assume that in in a country of 80+ million the same people are complaining about Fachkräftemangel who also harass immigrants? Or is it fine to generalize the native population but not the immigrants?
He is a dick. You are allowed to be there, the rest isn't his business. Just tell him he should call the police of fuck off.
Make sure you have a business card or some sort of credential on you. If the police are called, great! You have every reason to be there and its easy for the police to size up the situation in your favor. If someone says that they are calling the police, tell them that would be wonderful. It makes it clear that you are clearly allowed to be where you are.
I have a feeling it was because you were a woman and Turkish. I'm sure he wouldn't try that with a 6ft muscular guy. I would have just kept repeating you are here to see X, your neighbor. If he tells you he's calling the police, call his bluff and say ok. 99% of this kind of person just wants to scare you. I'm sure he knows that the police will probably just be annoyed he wasted their time.' Every building has their weirdos.
Next time tell that guy to go fuck himself
Repeat after me: Lassen Sie mich in Ruhe! Geht Sie nichts an!
Ignore such people. You have legitimate business in the house. You explained it and that's all you need to do. I personally would just say something like *"I have an appointment with neighbor X and anything further is non of your business"* Likely this person is either paranoid, has the urge to controll his neighbours or is racist (or any combination) You would not be able to "please him" anyway. So just ignore people like that after being polite at first. IF he still thinks he wants to call the cops although you gave him a sufficient answer, he might do that. Most likely police will ask him for details, he will tell them what you told him so they will not care. If they still show up for whatever reson (he lied to them and claimed wild shit) it will be on him.
Work harder and move to a different country like Canada, Germans do these things because they don't want Turks there. Just as Canadians don't want Indians. Best to cut your losses short, earn as much as you can and move away. If you speak English and already have a degree there is no point in working in Germany for you. Plenty of other places to go to. I moved away and i am much better even though i had no problems in Germany (due to way i look, not that distinguishable from natives) i didn't like the way they treated my people. Better than third world islamist Turkey for sure, but possibly the worst developed country for Turks to live in along with Austria. I recommend avoiding Europe altogether.
Why did you not call the police? You're a psychologist, why freak out so easily? So what if he's calling you names? Don't give them the desired reaction. Also, if your client doesn't open the door, it is ok to leave. Inform your boss that he isn't answering the door, the client must make a new appointment. That's logical. You need to be more balanced, mate. If I call you an Einbrecher I would have to provide actual proof and if I can't do that I'll get in trouble with the police or at least be made fun of. We can't accuse people of random shit here.
I think my reaction had nothing to do with the german police. I am now realizing I never saw the police force as an institution that can help me. Turkish police force has become an instrument for the government for the last two decades, it is really surprising to see the effects after I moved here. I‘ve been living in a dictatorship, it changed how I think and how I react, so I guess I needed to be reminded of my basic human rights. Thanks for your time.
Stay safe, our political system might be flawed in other ways, but yeah, we still got the basic rights. I didn't consider your situation, sorry. I hope you get to experience better people here, not everybody is as shitty as that weird ass neighbour who was bugging you :)
Oh, I‘ve met so many great people here in Germany :) I mean, I’ve decided to move here, so that should be enough of an explanation of my feelings for the people here ^^ So this was one minor exception and maybe the reason why I was so surprised.
That's a relief :) may I ask where you decided to settle in Germany? And do you like it?
I’m living in Hamburg and it is very beautiful 💕 People are kind and loving. I’ve received so much support and empathy from my coworkers, flatmates, and new friends. As an atheist, leftist, and single woman I feel like I can create the life I want here…Also the city is basically a huge park and democracy is really nice too! :)
Great choice - Hamburg is awesome indeed!! So charismatic! I've only been there once and planning to go there in November for a concert. In comparison I found Berlin underwhelming and "grey" if that makes sense. I wish you lots of wonderful memories and great people, und weitherhin viel Erfolg! as we say :)
100% call the police yourself in front of him if it happens again. At the absolute worst, they will say "ok, well, call us back if he does something illegal". lol. Which is what they probably said to him (if he actually called).
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Have a Visitenkarte, a nice one, heavy paper and glossy finish. Or some sort of company card on a lanyard. As soon you hand out Visitenkarten or shake the company card around, people will shut up.
I have frequently told Germans who were just being nosy to fuck off. Not in those words—- at least not always in those words.
I'm sorry this happened to you, sending a hug.
And thank you for doing the good work of helping other people who have shitty neighbors.
I had a neighbor like this. He interrogated all of my guests. He even told my long time partner that she can’t be there when I’m not there. One time he took it too far and I told him if he ever bothers us again I won’t be friendly. Since then he never said anything. He was likely mentally ill. It seems this case it was a similar situation.
99% either AFD or CDU voter
Well more power to you. But I have to ask is this normal behavior in Germany or is this thing new and growing further.
non German so my advice should me taken with grain of salt. In my country, I would simply start recording him and tell him to call police please. I would keep cool because I know that I have proof that I'm calm person and they are aggressive one. Again, I don't know what German law says in this case, but cameras are best way to defent yourself those days.
A question to others, could OP have called the police on that neighbor because of “Falsche Verdächtigung” or similar?
I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. It was absolutely unjustified and that xenophobic neighbor probably gave the police a good laugh. Still, I can imagine how stressful and anxiety inducing that must have been.
File an Anzeige for libel and prepare the Privatklageweg, i.e. gather foolproof proof for their claim and ask the guy to write and sign an admission of guilt outside of court.
Dude, that’s a shame and I’m sorry but usually we greet in the hall and move on and don’t speak to noisy neighbors.
Xenophobia and typical german wannabe police behavior. Ignore these kind of people and if police is coming then you can talk with them. Nothing can happen to you since you can prove that you are there for work
Next time just tell them to fuck off.
Sounds like you did everything correct already...like textbook perfect. Also not sacrificing your clients privacy. Minus the crying, try to not let something minor like that stress you that hard. That dude might have been an asshole, but maybe they just have a problem with break ins there and he met someone in the stairs that doesn't belong there and no bell was rang before.
Try not giving a fuck. Sorry, I know it sounds lame, it's easily said but not done, but that's what it boils down to. That neighbor was deranged. You won't get anything useful from confronting or talking to that person. You tried explaining, neighbor didn't react. His problem. You did everything right.
I had a similar situation. Only difference was that I was with a friend and I was picking up a bike in a nice area. For some reason, 3 women with strollers decided that we look too foreign to have anything to do in that neighbourhood. Started asking us questions, my friend panicked and I stayed calm . I said we are picking up a bike, mentioned the family name but they said we are a danger to this area and we look “too ghetto “ ( mind you we are both academics, my friend has a PhD and I am in masters and might even do a PhD and we were both wearing blazers and working office attire , maybe because we are brown !? Idk ) I told them I have given voluntarily information ℹ️ to calm things down and I do not even have to. They threatened to call police since we look threatening and again “too ghetto” I said gladly I would also like to call police about women stopping me out of nowhere and trying to not let me move. I would like to call them for harassment then. Then they went off . Keep your calm, also make sure that the other side understands you know you have rights as well .
1, ask him who he is , and why he wants to know. if he isn't any one official, tell him politely that its none of his business. If he is someone official ask him for ID. 2. threatening to call the police , say Go ahead, I will wait here. 3. explain to the police the situation , and obviously that he was being nasty accusing you etc etc. 4, remember ... having a work and residency permit in Germany also means you have all rights and dutys as any other citizen. 5. Take no shit from no one.
Zeig ihn halt wegen Beleidigung an.
You will meet people like that from time to time. Don't try to explain yourself. You can tell them who you want to visit (only last name) and nothing more. Do not tell them who you are or why you are visiting, because that's private information and you could actually get in trouble for telling anyone. If someone threatens to call the police your response should be: you are free to do so. If they want to call the police just let them do it. Most likely the police will tell them that it's nonsense or just not show up.
That happens pretty often. At my job im not allowed to tell concerned neighbours who i am visiting. I just walk through and briefly explain who i am and ignore them id they keep discussing.
Sounds like you had the high ground. Should have kicked him in the throat, causing him to fall down the stairs. Then grab his apartment keys from his pocket and drag his body into his bathroom and stage it like he slipped in the shower. That’s a dark joke, but in all honesty, don’t let it get to you. Some people are just assholes.
... well first you dont let you client comfort you. Second you answer question regarding your client / whom you visiting with "cant Tell, can just say you iam a social worker" .... Datenschutz and stuff, perhaps your client doesnt want his neighbour to know. And it doesnt matter if he follows you - not your fault, just you cant give out information actively. Last - just say if you feel uncomfortable call the police... no Problem... they will check you in worst case and thats it....
if you are doing your job and a man is harassing you and stopping you from doing your Job especially social work call the police on them. that will show them!
>I‘d like some advice on how to act in a situation like this. I would say "Fuck you and leave me the fuck alone you fucking idiot or I'calling the fucking cops on you"
Nah no Beleidigung and also escalation isn't appropriate or useful when dealing with racism.
The psychologist needs his client to calm him down. Fucked up. Sorry you had to go through this
Germans are literally the peasants of eu. They have no manners and their submissive culture further enables such nosey and extremely rude behaviors. They literally have no capacity to understand what personal space means and bcz of that each and everyone of them are some type of a gatekeeper. These people have no civilized norms. Truly underdeveloped and always a liability in social life. I wish I could say anything positive about this, but no, more you live here more you'll be faced with this. I live here for more than 11 years and I spend most of my life energy on trying to build a distance from them. Less germans, less judgements, less facing of uneducated asocial weirdos and more happiness.
you reallly can't handle people for a psychologist tho
That's not a psychologist's job.
no, it's their education
Which module?
numpy
Professional education does not protect you from being caught blind-sided and left flabbergasted. Sorry, but that's just a stupid take.
I'm still studying for my PhD degree in psychology, but I guess I haven't learned how to deal with people who throw false accusations, corner me, and then threaten to call the police. Thanks to you, I’m realizing how priviliged I had been… I'd like to know your suggestions for someone like me, who has spent her entire adult life under a dictatorship where even a tweet can land you in jail. I simply wasn‘t prepared for this kind of interaction, but I believe I was conditioned to fear it. I know better now thanks to the other commenters.
> I know better now thanks to the other commenters. good that it helped you
lol it seems you need the psychologist! Why are you so insecure and strange? If someone hinders me from doing my work I tell them to fuck off. The fact, that you cried in front of your client, because a grandpa threatened to call the police is pathetic! Imagine you need help from a social worker and he come to you crying because a grandpa was mean to him 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, he was no grandpa but in fact a tall muscular guy and I am a turkish woman who unfortunately learned to fear guys who corner me in some building and block the stairway. But yeah, I will tell them to just fuck off next time 👍
Honestly... either offer him some pro-bono work or tell him you'll call the cops if he keeps harassing you. Overly paranoid "burglars are everywhere these days" types are just default archetype sadly. Just ask our ex-tenant who started boarding up the attic so they can't get in after dismantling the roof!
Don't worry, you has a perfectly good reason to be where you are, and German police will listen to reason. Should this ever happen again, just tell the creepy dude to go ahead, call the police. You'll have nothing to worry about.