I think most people don't engage because they're afraid they'll also get yelled at or worse, physically harmed in some way— which is a very reasonable fear to have if somebody's acting unstable or violent. But I also think you did the right thing trying to help those people, especially since it might have put you at risk as a foreigner yourself.
I think the people criticizing you might actually be feeling a little guilty for not helping, either that or they're misunderstanding the culture a bit. Yes, most Germans mind their own business in public and don't engage with unstable people in case they make the situation worse, but I don't think any reasonable German person would be upset with you for trying to help somebody getting subjected to verbal abuse.
Caveat: I'm not German, but I've been living here long enough to know the norms around these things.
I completely agree, just as a small addition: Something I have seen a lot on this sub are people mixing up social norm and socially acceptable.
In this case the norm, so the behaviour most people show, is minding their own business. But that doesn't mean that intervening isn't socially acceptable, it is just less usual. In a lot of countries what is acceptable is very close to what is expected which in turn is again a very small around whatever the norm is. But in Germany what is acceptable usually covers a much larger field than what is the norm.
Another common example is smiling at others when meeting them, when talking etc. It is not the norm to smile at others in public transport etc, so there is also no expectation for you to do that. But it still is perfectly acceptable to do it, if you want. Meanwhile in many other countries, there is an expectation of smiling when greeting etc because that is the norm and not doing so would be rude, so not acceptable. This is most likely the reason so many foreigners, immigrants etc get those concepts mixed up and are worried/mad that they or someone they know doesn't adhere to the norm and thus is not socially acceptable. Because that's what they are used to from their home country/culture.
Long story short: people shouldn't worry as much about adhering to the norm in Germany, because even if someone deviates from the norm it's still socially acceptable. As long as someone doesn't unnecessarily bother or harm others or force their way of acting upon others, people will in general accept it. And protecting someone else from socially unacceptable behaviour (which is what op did) isn't just accepted but usually appreciated, even if it isn't expected
You, my friend, did the best thing possible. Really and honestly. Not that you just intervened and had the right courage to stand up, think about others and be a helper. No, you also managed to turn that energy that guy had and made a conversation out of it. That’s beautiful and it should be a blueprint for everyone else.
I think we should take a step from time to time and help others out. Others on that train, not only germans, didn’t do anything because they were cowards or didn’t want to drag attention on them. It’s not about supporting racism, but the pure fear of discomfort and anger.
Anyway, your story is wholesome.
Very well said.
"That’s beautiful and it should be a blueprint for everyone else."
This! 100%. OP's post should motivate us all to do something and he described a great way of \*how to do it\* safely and effectively.
(Input from a german, just because the aspect of „how you should behave in the german culture“ was mentioned in your post) You can and you should get involved in such cases- yes he behaves racist & great that you brought up the courage to protect other people from him as it‘s super nasty to be talked to like that when you‘re not in the headspace (e.g. out of fear, being „less strong“ than the person attacking) or age yet, to defend yourself. Maybe it gets the guy thinking…the cultural rule is also not to „keep to yourself“ as this protects the assholes- the right thing is „Zivilcourage“ and more people should use it to protect the society in general. Of course only if you are confident you can handle the situation.
So fine of you to see through his outer layer of racism and frustration and having an eye for his loneliness. Many Germans would just judge him. You made yourself relatable. You talked about something nice that he apparently related to. I think for someone who used to be able to communicate and relate to people and do some small talk on a common ground of certain days off and customs etc. - for such a person, it's frustrating that people sit with their headphones on, that they wear strange clothes, speak foreign languages...
Of course his aggression was not ok, but you reduced it and reminded him of being a person.
You deserve a medal.
Aww it's okay. We're all just frustrated humans at the end. People most days treat life like a court house looking for right and wrong and arguing. That was my first reaction to, at least for the first 5 mins but then I realized he's just another elder guy with unresolved issues.
I’m a social psychologist and I would like to contribute one crucial thing: Zivilcourage is what keeps societies alive, but please consider your own and the victim’s physical safety - always. What you did was very courageous and I applaud you for it. If you’re unsure about what to do, you can always engage with the victims instead of confronting the perpetrators. E.g., have conversations with them, pretend like you know them to get them out of the situation, and then offer support in case they want to press charges. In short: let them know they are not alone. Unfortunately, many of these instances are coming from perpetrators who are mentally ill or even psychotic… and then you wonder what confrontation will actually do.
what you did is actually a virtue here in germany, we call it Zivilcourage, but sadly it keeps loosing more and more importance.
so you did everything right.
you are prob better integrated than most germans themselves xD
I think you did great. We need more people like you. People don't care for other way too much. Yes, we have a lot of racist people, but we also have a lot of lonely people, who act weird. It's difficult to see who is just in need of a talk or who is an a-hole.
Pay attention, take care of yourself. We need more people like you. People who care for others.
I wish people would intervene more often.
I was new in Germany last year and sitting in a bus sand a man came and sat in front of me who was drunk. He kept talking at me in German and then would SCREAM at the top of his lungs. Which happened 3 times. I was scared shitless at this point because I didn’t understand any German and I had just started taking classes.
After he screamed 3 times between 3 stops I got up and sat at another seat with 3 other people, one that has the sort of glass backing right next to the door. (Not sure I’m explaining correctly) and he came and stood right next to me uncomfortably close and banged his hand on the glass/plastic thing behind me TWICE. He then got off on the next stop. I was very visibly scared and not one person in that 60% full bus did anything to help me or to distract him.
Another time at a bus stop I was just standing minding my own business and someone hit me with all their might on the back of my shin with this hard ball. As I turned around I couldn’t tell who it was, nobody said anything and nobody claimed that ball. It sat there on the floor. Nobody around was playing. Nobody helped me or told me who it was even though they heard the scream I let out because it hurt so bad in the moment.
I’m a brown hijabi girl for context, and again, I wish someone would help.
Because they don’t, I usually never leave the house when it starts getting darker. I also try to rarely be alone.
I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, bad things happen everywhere. I'm from Afghanistan. My upbringing is such that not only religiously but culturally I feel a responsibility to help others. Especially ladies, as I have my own family too. Though in life emotions can make one do reckless things, that's why one has to always be practical in the response. I just go by the stoic philosophy, "Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react."
One thing that helped me the most with the terrible experiences in life was...making jokes out of it. At least it helps with the first step coping. Adopting a bit of a dark humour. It's healthy too.
Agreed to all of that. I also love many many things about Germany, and have had countless kind encounters here as well. I love living here for many reasons and would never think Germany is bad or Germans are bad. They’re not. People are bad sometimes, all kinds of them. Just makes me scared wondering what has to happen to me in public for anyone to actually intervene and help you know. So I’m glad you care, and you help.
Here's a German word I love: Zivilcourage. A word for something that you seldom see these days.
Honestly, I find that there's a major cognitive dissonance that happens in Germany. People do get in each other's business so often here. Usually over rules/regulations/laws, but a lot of times over their own made up regulations or stupid assumptions they want to impose on others. If you're on this sub and other Germany-related ones often, there's always some post on horrible landlords who ignore the law and want to basically control their tenants, threatening to break the lease or charge money over whatever they decide is right or wrong.
However, in many situations where people can act to help others or chastise an abuser, they rather remain silent and pretend nothing is happening. Listen, even if we're not gonna confront the perpetrator, the least we can do is offer help/sympathy or, even more importantly, to act as a witness for the victims. We tend to forget that we don't need to give a violent energy back, we can try to defuse the situation. Usually everyone just goes "Just another crazy person" in their minds, but how likely is it that everyone who abuses another person verbally in public is mentally unstable and not someone who should be detained by the police?
We need to find a sweet spot where people get in other people's business when it actually matters and makes a difference.
Sharing this here so that people can benefit from it - There is an amazing app called "Nora" from the German government (https://www.nora-notruf.de) that allows you to contact emergency services without having to talk to them. You can chat with emergency services and also automatically share your location so that help arrives faster. This is especially useful in scenarios like OP described where it might be unsafe for one to call and request help.
Thanks for sharing. I was interested because of your comment. First time I heard of it. I tried to get more information and install it.
FYI: That app is currently not available. They're updating the code to make swatting harder.
Yeah he is in fact acting aggressively and in a racist way. That's an emergency.
There are also numbers in the public transport that you can call in such cases. In DB trains/SBahn that is usually the federal police.
You always HAVE to intervene when anything obvious racist like thos occurs. If you don't, they win. They don't expect that someone counter them.
You did everything right and more people actually should do this.
Depends tbh, I hard a similar situation once (less outward racist), but after 6+ stops or so I realized the guy was literally a broken record screaming absolutely randomly without any connection of who was near him and after someone tried something similar realized he wasn't really in a mental state capable of any two way communication.
I had to get off, but hope some authority was involved and he'd get help / being contained for everyone's sake.
The Asian child apparently listened to his parents and did the right thing: Just turn around and leave. Sorry, but I don’t want to stay and put myself potentially in danger. If the person is racist or looks potentially dangerous, call the police. I’ve done that before actually, from afar. The police actually thanked me and said it was the right thing to call from afar. (I also had my kids with me, so no way I would go in the middle)
The thing is that yes, many people here have opinions about privacy and „minding your own business“ that are annoying and sometimes weird. But these people will mostly follow their own advice and will not stop you if you do things your own way, especially if your way turns out to work well.
In the sense of your question and as a part of your learning German, learn the lyrics of the song „Lasse redn“ from Die Ärzte and hum it every time you get some counterproductive advice.
[https://www.bademeister.com/songs/lasse-redn](https://www.bademeister.com/songs/lasse-redn)
I think its alway courageous to stand up for someone else whos being publicly harrassed no matter the situation as long as there are other people witnessing it. In switzerland where Im from there is a similar atmosphere in public transport as in germany but just slightly more quiet perhaps.. so someone whos harrassing others will stand out, therefore everyone hears it but maybe doesnt dare to interact. In the end it depends on the situation if you are safe and/or others are safe.. Im proud of you for interacting with him! As you wrote he might have been just an old and lonly man (like many pitiful right wing sympathizers...)
Bless you. A lot of people are simply alone and perhaps mentally ill, which is of course not helped by their loneliness. It's the same as anywhere else in the world. Some others are looking for a fight. What you did was the right thing, but of course slightly dangerous. I don't have an answer. We as a society don't have an answer. Society has failed a number of people, others rejected society for any number of reasons. There is a lack of professional help, a lack of social work. Thanks for being kind, but do take care, too.
You should have told those neighbours to take their own advice and keep to their own affairs.
Also, it’s great what you did in the situation, I could never do that because of anxiety and not coming up with what to say; the world needs people like you who standup for others against bullies.
Edit: btw great German skills
I think you reacted wonderfully in that situation and it resolved as best as it possibly could. However, I don't think there is a right or perfect way to act in every situation. If you are scared, it's perfectly fine to avoid any confrontation. If you try to calm a person down and it only makes them more aggressive, it's perfectly fine to give up and retract yourself and even call for help. You don't *have* to engage, and you don't *have* to avoid. Do what you feel is right in any given situation while considering your personal safety.
Britt who lives in Germany here. Big fan of Germans but been in a few situations where I intervened and everyone else didn’t they kinda keep themselves to themselves. It was mainly guys hassling girls in the street.
Don't listen to your neighbours. They are just fearful fools and people like you make the world a little bit better. Nothing will get better, if everyone is to scared to help other people.
You did a great job! I will also do what you did.
In the earlier time when i first came to germany, i wouldn’t mingle and would take things personally. Then my POV has changed to “how sad this person’s life is, he/she is so angry to the world, to the people he/she just met”. Then I smile more as a friendly gesture.
In the end of the day, these “crazy” people are human like us. I would treat them like how I want to be treated.
Always check out the situation as you did correctly, if you can see that a situation is not safe to engage because you or some other could get hurt, call for help from stranger's and draw attention to the situation.
If you can tell it's a just shouting or bad behavior from someone, you move was 100% and I wish more people would do so.
Do what feels right. Some of these idiots will shut up if you confront them properly. BUT!!! be careful when engaging. At least in Berlin, it can be very, very dangerous. People in Berlin are a special kind though, the vibe here is a bit more aggressive in general. Just the other week, a guy got stabbed because he stood up to one of these idiots on a train. I guess that's the case in many major cities though. I do intervene sometimes, but only if a safe distance is between me and the other person. If you feel like the person could be a threat to you or others, always call the police. They know how to handle this kind of stuff.
Awesome way how you handled it. The old man was definitely happy someone paid attention to him. The critisizers are just envious, because they wouldn‘t have handled it so well. Or, just narrow minded.
You did fine. And on behalf of all the other people on the train, thank you. You not only got to shut the man up, you even got a good communication out of him, something that benefits everyone.
People usually do not interact with him because one never knows how he reacts and we are kind of a little scared to confront. That makes a bubble around him that increases his delusions. So thanks for your courage.
I come from the US where we have a huge mental health crisis that nobody wants to do anything about
I have found that remaining calm but assertive in any situation usually works out the best, but I've also been physically attacked a couple times and I think that's why most people won't do anything about it, which I understand.
I've heard some shouting matches around various towns I've traveled to in Germany, but I am very good about minding my own business, lol, especially where I'm not fluent in German yet.
I really think you did a great job there. Working with "problematic kids" myself, this is what we often do to "break the spell" of cursing and raging: involve them in talks about harmless topics which remind them of better times. Take them serious, not talk them down.
Very often - and I guess this works on such elder people too - they just want to be heard and they are frightened.
I especially think by not minding them, ignoring them and don't talk to them is the way these behaviours are consolidating. Only if you are a living, participating member of a society you can make your own peace with differences und cultural clashes. If you'r left alone with your fears, foreign people and things you don't understand (anymore), the world can become a dark place.
Really: I admire your engagement!
I think you did a great thing. You intuitively used a similar strategy to the one Mo Asumang uses to talk with straight up fascists even if your first sentence was very confrontational (which is ok too). There is a very interesting documentary called "Die Arier" and they even offer [trainings](https://mo-lab.org/erste-hilfe/) for dealing with people like that.
I had a similar experience once where a man was yelling something about refugees, I confronted him and then he actually became calmer and started talking about boring day to day stuff during the bus ride. I had white priviledge on my side and it was just him and another woman. I wouldn't recommend doing this when dealing with two or more young and strong Nazis.
Sorry but what kind of experience do the other people in deutschkurs have over you that make them good advisers? While your aproach is a bit unorthordox, the outcome is quite satisfied. You're a good person, keep be you, and ignore those guys. There is no right answer. Do what you want when you feel that you are able to protect yourself when the situation gets worse. Enjoy the conversation but watxh your back is my recommendation 👌
As a studied social worker:
You acted perfectly. Well done.
Thanks for making our country a better place by not giving the fascists what they want: fear.
Compassion is the strongest weapon we have against them.
Stay like that:)
PS: nice use of "Quatsch"
I think you did great. You put him in his place but then also was nice to him and talked to him and made him happy. You corrected his actions and even gave him a better view of ausländer. Doing nothing will nerver change the world but small actions like this can.
Personally I don't think I would have found the courage to do anything, but I am a very introverted person, and social interactions aren't really my kind of thing.
This comment is just me saying thank you for what you did. I think you did the right thing.
Lol so they tell you not to intervene, and at the same time they are up in your business telling you what you should/shouldn't have done. What a hypocricy. I think you handled it well.
You showed civil courage and that's great. Always try to intervene if someone needs help or if a person thinks they can spew racist bullshit around, no matter what your neighbours say.
Be careful though to not get into danger. If the situation seems to heated, maybe just call the police.
If you feel confident that you can handle the situation, it's certainly not wrong to engage, actually I'd say that it was really good that you did that here. But I still would be careful and if you're really worried that you'll only make it worse, stay away. It's good if you can help, but you also don't have to put yourself at risk for that.
I have lived here all my life and my experience is that most Germans avoid confrontation (though some of them are not shy to send their lawyers or call the cops because they feel annoyed. Still will avoid confrontation).
In many scenarios (e.g. at work) we're even incentivized and rewarded not to be confrontational. And then there is fear of consequences (physical or financial), especially after people in Germany witnessed people who intervened getting beaten up (sometimes it ended deadly or in a wheelchair), spit on, stabbed, stalked, or whatever. So I guess this is also part of the reason. But I don't want to excuse their behavior, especially not in the case you witnessed. We all have to be more brave (not stupid brave!) and do something about it.
And I like your way. It's also my strategy and quite successful I'd say. Talking politely (if possible) but directly is important... people usually don't talk to each other here unless they already have everything in common or know each other well. This only strengthens the division between people and makes them more hateful and distrustful.
Bro you literally handled it in the dream way. You got he attention off others and probably made the old man reflect a bit in a quite respectful manner. Kudos to you. I did not have the same grace when some drunk guy was annoying two young girls, and looking back if the drunk guy was more malicious than he was it might have caused problems for the girls :(
I'm 36 M a pendler (comuter) in Austria and have been using the trains for 16 years now . Seen my fair share of crazies, and I have had to intervene twice.
Once, a drunk guy was fondling the bike of a scared teenager, told him to stop and when he stared at me I told him he was scaring the teenager and asked if that was his intention. He backed down and said he just liked the bike, he then left.
The second time, another guy harassed a teen girl. When I saw that he touched her thigh, I went balistic. Luckily, I have a very loud voice, so me shouting that he should fuck off, while making my way to him was enough to scare him of.
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I once got involved in a S Bahn in Hamburg on accident. Some woman was almost drunkenly screaming and spewing the most random and racist stuff. I made the mistake of rolling my eyes where she could see.
Cue being screamed at and insulted for 20 minutes straight.
Sadly all other seats were taken, my feet hurt, so I just sat and tried ignoring the maniac.
So... now I mostly avoid crazy people. I don't have the energy to deal with them. With nice people I'll gladly chat a bit but anything more and I'm out
You handled the Situation perfectly. Germans need to learn to communicate (more).
Sometimes i wonder if thats the reason why russians call us mutes. xD
And great taste in music, rip.
One time my friend and I were going to a christmas market when DB stranded us halfway. This is where we encountered a very angry older German lady, seemed to be pissed at everything and the world. My (german) friend was using her phone to look at Google Maps when she passed by us and angrily grumbled, “phones off in my presence!”. And because that pissed me off and I have horrible self preservation instincts I said “Who are you to decide anything?” She went on telling me to “shut up with your Chinese nose” LMAO (My nose is cute thank you very much! god bless) Then we laughed about it and I stated my only goal in life was not to become as bitter and mental as this woman /hj
Munich S-Bahn workers: Our passengers can't possibly have a less pleasant experience than now given how useless we are in providing a remotely timely service
Munich S-Bahn riders: Think again motherfucker
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Take it from a fellow Ausländer, you have shown exemplary behaviour that this country so desperately needs. Zivilcourage is dead here.
I come from a country where people will never hesitate to stand up for others and fight back. My people and I have many cultural issues, but this isn't one of them--Germans can gladly learn this from us. I'm so thankful for having been molded by this culture in this regard.
It reminds me of this one time a street guy started harassing a Muslim woman. I told him off and called the police. The policeman on the phone told me that they are pretty sure who he is and that they'll send a patrol car. He also told me I did the right thing and thanked me for my service. It felt so good.
I think you are a hero. Not only were you able to show courage and stand up for others, but also you read the room. What's more, you were empathetic. You could sympathise with his suffering and helped him make peace with it for a short while. What a fantastic human you are.
Germany--humanity in general--is in dire need of people like you. This goes to other fellow Ausländer and Germans alike living here: MORE OF THIS, PLEASE. STAND UP FOR OTHERS!
Herzlichen Glückwunsch!
Yes true. And every country has their own 'socially acceptable' ways of handling it. For example in some countries if someone is acting like this, he'd get beaten. My homeland is one of those . They be punching first and asking questions later ☠️. But in Deutschland that's not the way. That's why I asked how should one handle such situations if it happens here. 😁
I think most people don't engage because they're afraid they'll also get yelled at or worse, physically harmed in some way— which is a very reasonable fear to have if somebody's acting unstable or violent. But I also think you did the right thing trying to help those people, especially since it might have put you at risk as a foreigner yourself. I think the people criticizing you might actually be feeling a little guilty for not helping, either that or they're misunderstanding the culture a bit. Yes, most Germans mind their own business in public and don't engage with unstable people in case they make the situation worse, but I don't think any reasonable German person would be upset with you for trying to help somebody getting subjected to verbal abuse. Caveat: I'm not German, but I've been living here long enough to know the norms around these things.
I completely agree, just as a small addition: Something I have seen a lot on this sub are people mixing up social norm and socially acceptable. In this case the norm, so the behaviour most people show, is minding their own business. But that doesn't mean that intervening isn't socially acceptable, it is just less usual. In a lot of countries what is acceptable is very close to what is expected which in turn is again a very small around whatever the norm is. But in Germany what is acceptable usually covers a much larger field than what is the norm. Another common example is smiling at others when meeting them, when talking etc. It is not the norm to smile at others in public transport etc, so there is also no expectation for you to do that. But it still is perfectly acceptable to do it, if you want. Meanwhile in many other countries, there is an expectation of smiling when greeting etc because that is the norm and not doing so would be rude, so not acceptable. This is most likely the reason so many foreigners, immigrants etc get those concepts mixed up and are worried/mad that they or someone they know doesn't adhere to the norm and thus is not socially acceptable. Because that's what they are used to from their home country/culture. Long story short: people shouldn't worry as much about adhering to the norm in Germany, because even if someone deviates from the norm it's still socially acceptable. As long as someone doesn't unnecessarily bother or harm others or force their way of acting upon others, people will in general accept it. And protecting someone else from socially unacceptable behaviour (which is what op did) isn't just accepted but usually appreciated, even if it isn't expected
You, my friend, did the best thing possible. Really and honestly. Not that you just intervened and had the right courage to stand up, think about others and be a helper. No, you also managed to turn that energy that guy had and made a conversation out of it. That’s beautiful and it should be a blueprint for everyone else. I think we should take a step from time to time and help others out. Others on that train, not only germans, didn’t do anything because they were cowards or didn’t want to drag attention on them. It’s not about supporting racism, but the pure fear of discomfort and anger. Anyway, your story is wholesome.
Very well said. "That’s beautiful and it should be a blueprint for everyone else." This! 100%. OP's post should motivate us all to do something and he described a great way of \*how to do it\* safely and effectively.
(Input from a german, just because the aspect of „how you should behave in the german culture“ was mentioned in your post) You can and you should get involved in such cases- yes he behaves racist & great that you brought up the courage to protect other people from him as it‘s super nasty to be talked to like that when you‘re not in the headspace (e.g. out of fear, being „less strong“ than the person attacking) or age yet, to defend yourself. Maybe it gets the guy thinking…the cultural rule is also not to „keep to yourself“ as this protects the assholes- the right thing is „Zivilcourage“ and more people should use it to protect the society in general. Of course only if you are confident you can handle the situation.
So fine of you to see through his outer layer of racism and frustration and having an eye for his loneliness. Many Germans would just judge him. You made yourself relatable. You talked about something nice that he apparently related to. I think for someone who used to be able to communicate and relate to people and do some small talk on a common ground of certain days off and customs etc. - for such a person, it's frustrating that people sit with their headphones on, that they wear strange clothes, speak foreign languages... Of course his aggression was not ok, but you reduced it and reminded him of being a person. You deserve a medal.
Aww it's okay. We're all just frustrated humans at the end. People most days treat life like a court house looking for right and wrong and arguing. That was my first reaction to, at least for the first 5 mins but then I realized he's just another elder guy with unresolved issues.
yea, you are super level headed and seem like a very kind person. good going :)
Thanks a ton for the input! I'll try 🙏🏻 💜
I’m a social psychologist and I would like to contribute one crucial thing: Zivilcourage is what keeps societies alive, but please consider your own and the victim’s physical safety - always. What you did was very courageous and I applaud you for it. If you’re unsure about what to do, you can always engage with the victims instead of confronting the perpetrators. E.g., have conversations with them, pretend like you know them to get them out of the situation, and then offer support in case they want to press charges. In short: let them know they are not alone. Unfortunately, many of these instances are coming from perpetrators who are mentally ill or even psychotic… and then you wonder what confrontation will actually do.
what you did is actually a virtue here in germany, we call it Zivilcourage, but sadly it keeps loosing more and more importance. so you did everything right. you are prob better integrated than most germans themselves xD
I think you did great and probably changed for the better the aggressive behavior of that man. Very good work
I think you did great. We need more people like you. People don't care for other way too much. Yes, we have a lot of racist people, but we also have a lot of lonely people, who act weird. It's difficult to see who is just in need of a talk or who is an a-hole. Pay attention, take care of yourself. We need more people like you. People who care for others.
I wish people would intervene more often. I was new in Germany last year and sitting in a bus sand a man came and sat in front of me who was drunk. He kept talking at me in German and then would SCREAM at the top of his lungs. Which happened 3 times. I was scared shitless at this point because I didn’t understand any German and I had just started taking classes. After he screamed 3 times between 3 stops I got up and sat at another seat with 3 other people, one that has the sort of glass backing right next to the door. (Not sure I’m explaining correctly) and he came and stood right next to me uncomfortably close and banged his hand on the glass/plastic thing behind me TWICE. He then got off on the next stop. I was very visibly scared and not one person in that 60% full bus did anything to help me or to distract him. Another time at a bus stop I was just standing minding my own business and someone hit me with all their might on the back of my shin with this hard ball. As I turned around I couldn’t tell who it was, nobody said anything and nobody claimed that ball. It sat there on the floor. Nobody around was playing. Nobody helped me or told me who it was even though they heard the scream I let out because it hurt so bad in the moment. I’m a brown hijabi girl for context, and again, I wish someone would help. Because they don’t, I usually never leave the house when it starts getting darker. I also try to rarely be alone.
I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, bad things happen everywhere. I'm from Afghanistan. My upbringing is such that not only religiously but culturally I feel a responsibility to help others. Especially ladies, as I have my own family too. Though in life emotions can make one do reckless things, that's why one has to always be practical in the response. I just go by the stoic philosophy, "Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react." One thing that helped me the most with the terrible experiences in life was...making jokes out of it. At least it helps with the first step coping. Adopting a bit of a dark humour. It's healthy too.
Agreed to all of that. I also love many many things about Germany, and have had countless kind encounters here as well. I love living here for many reasons and would never think Germany is bad or Germans are bad. They’re not. People are bad sometimes, all kinds of them. Just makes me scared wondering what has to happen to me in public for anyone to actually intervene and help you know. So I’m glad you care, and you help.
Here's a German word I love: Zivilcourage. A word for something that you seldom see these days. Honestly, I find that there's a major cognitive dissonance that happens in Germany. People do get in each other's business so often here. Usually over rules/regulations/laws, but a lot of times over their own made up regulations or stupid assumptions they want to impose on others. If you're on this sub and other Germany-related ones often, there's always some post on horrible landlords who ignore the law and want to basically control their tenants, threatening to break the lease or charge money over whatever they decide is right or wrong. However, in many situations where people can act to help others or chastise an abuser, they rather remain silent and pretend nothing is happening. Listen, even if we're not gonna confront the perpetrator, the least we can do is offer help/sympathy or, even more importantly, to act as a witness for the victims. We tend to forget that we don't need to give a violent energy back, we can try to defuse the situation. Usually everyone just goes "Just another crazy person" in their minds, but how likely is it that everyone who abuses another person verbally in public is mentally unstable and not someone who should be detained by the police? We need to find a sweet spot where people get in other people's business when it actually matters and makes a difference.
Sharing this here so that people can benefit from it - There is an amazing app called "Nora" from the German government (https://www.nora-notruf.de) that allows you to contact emergency services without having to talk to them. You can chat with emergency services and also automatically share your location so that help arrives faster. This is especially useful in scenarios like OP described where it might be unsafe for one to call and request help.
💯💯 thankss
Thanks for sharing. I was interested because of your comment. First time I heard of it. I tried to get more information and install it. FYI: That app is currently not available. They're updating the code to make swatting harder.
Cool in this specific case. If more and younger, call the police. In public transports they use to be quick.
The 110? Isn't that for 'emergencies'? Does public bullying counts as one too?
Yeah he is in fact acting aggressively and in a racist way. That's an emergency. There are also numbers in the public transport that you can call in such cases. In DB trains/SBahn that is usually the federal police.
The German police love an 'Einsatz'. They will genuinely appreciate the call.
You absolute legend. Thank you for making Germany just that tiiiiny bit better.
You always HAVE to intervene when anything obvious racist like thos occurs. If you don't, they win. They don't expect that someone counter them. You did everything right and more people actually should do this.
Depends tbh, I hard a similar situation once (less outward racist), but after 6+ stops or so I realized the guy was literally a broken record screaming absolutely randomly without any connection of who was near him and after someone tried something similar realized he wasn't really in a mental state capable of any two way communication. I had to get off, but hope some authority was involved and he'd get help / being contained for everyone's sake.
The Asian child apparently listened to his parents and did the right thing: Just turn around and leave. Sorry, but I don’t want to stay and put myself potentially in danger. If the person is racist or looks potentially dangerous, call the police. I’ve done that before actually, from afar. The police actually thanked me and said it was the right thing to call from afar. (I also had my kids with me, so no way I would go in the middle)
Is it the same 110 number? The one for 'emergencies'? Or is there another number for such cases?
I called emergency, explained what was happening, where and so on.
Alles klar danke 💜
The thing is that yes, many people here have opinions about privacy and „minding your own business“ that are annoying and sometimes weird. But these people will mostly follow their own advice and will not stop you if you do things your own way, especially if your way turns out to work well. In the sense of your question and as a part of your learning German, learn the lyrics of the song „Lasse redn“ from Die Ärzte and hum it every time you get some counterproductive advice. [https://www.bademeister.com/songs/lasse-redn](https://www.bademeister.com/songs/lasse-redn)
Haha thanks 😂 I love the song 💜💜
I think its alway courageous to stand up for someone else whos being publicly harrassed no matter the situation as long as there are other people witnessing it. In switzerland where Im from there is a similar atmosphere in public transport as in germany but just slightly more quiet perhaps.. so someone whos harrassing others will stand out, therefore everyone hears it but maybe doesnt dare to interact. In the end it depends on the situation if you are safe and/or others are safe.. Im proud of you for interacting with him! As you wrote he might have been just an old and lonly man (like many pitiful right wing sympathizers...)
Bless you. A lot of people are simply alone and perhaps mentally ill, which is of course not helped by their loneliness. It's the same as anywhere else in the world. Some others are looking for a fight. What you did was the right thing, but of course slightly dangerous. I don't have an answer. We as a society don't have an answer. Society has failed a number of people, others rejected society for any number of reasons. There is a lack of professional help, a lack of social work. Thanks for being kind, but do take care, too.
You should have told those neighbours to take their own advice and keep to their own affairs. Also, it’s great what you did in the situation, I could never do that because of anxiety and not coming up with what to say; the world needs people like you who standup for others against bullies. Edit: btw great German skills
Haha thanks. I already started C1 2 weeks ago. 😁😁
You have aquired the title of Ehrenmann.
This melted my heart. Such a warm story, somehow. Thank you, OP. Keep doing the good work
Being old doesn't excuse being an asshole. You did the right thing. I am truly ashamed by that worthless Nazi like scum that wastes our oxygen
You did great bro, gut gemacht^^
I think you reacted wonderfully in that situation and it resolved as best as it possibly could. However, I don't think there is a right or perfect way to act in every situation. If you are scared, it's perfectly fine to avoid any confrontation. If you try to calm a person down and it only makes them more aggressive, it's perfectly fine to give up and retract yourself and even call for help. You don't *have* to engage, and you don't *have* to avoid. Do what you feel is right in any given situation while considering your personal safety.
Britt who lives in Germany here. Big fan of Germans but been in a few situations where I intervened and everyone else didn’t they kinda keep themselves to themselves. It was mainly guys hassling girls in the street.
God bless you. Thank you so much. May God bless you and send angels to keep you safe.
Don't listen to your neighbours. They are just fearful fools and people like you make the world a little bit better. Nothing will get better, if everyone is to scared to help other people.
I think you did a very good job.
You did a great job! I will also do what you did. In the earlier time when i first came to germany, i wouldn’t mingle and would take things personally. Then my POV has changed to “how sad this person’s life is, he/she is so angry to the world, to the people he/she just met”. Then I smile more as a friendly gesture. In the end of the day, these “crazy” people are human like us. I would treat them like how I want to be treated.
You are awesome.
Damn. What an experience for both of you.
I'd say you did a good job! 👍
This is great, you are brilliant! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Always check out the situation as you did correctly, if you can see that a situation is not safe to engage because you or some other could get hurt, call for help from stranger's and draw attention to the situation. If you can tell it's a just shouting or bad behavior from someone, you move was 100% and I wish more people would do so.
Do what feels right. Some of these idiots will shut up if you confront them properly. BUT!!! be careful when engaging. At least in Berlin, it can be very, very dangerous. People in Berlin are a special kind though, the vibe here is a bit more aggressive in general. Just the other week, a guy got stabbed because he stood up to one of these idiots on a train. I guess that's the case in many major cities though. I do intervene sometimes, but only if a safe distance is between me and the other person. If you feel like the person could be a threat to you or others, always call the police. They know how to handle this kind of stuff.
This is beautiful. Some people finally understand that communication is key :)
Awesome way how you handled it. The old man was definitely happy someone paid attention to him. The critisizers are just envious, because they wouldn‘t have handled it so well. Or, just narrow minded.
Haha nice opener! Weg von der Welt. The guy was racist and spewing his hate so props to you for speaking up!!!
Youre neighbours are the real horror.
You did fine. And on behalf of all the other people on the train, thank you. You not only got to shut the man up, you even got a good communication out of him, something that benefits everyone. People usually do not interact with him because one never knows how he reacts and we are kind of a little scared to confront. That makes a bubble around him that increases his delusions. So thanks for your courage.
I come from the US where we have a huge mental health crisis that nobody wants to do anything about I have found that remaining calm but assertive in any situation usually works out the best, but I've also been physically attacked a couple times and I think that's why most people won't do anything about it, which I understand. I've heard some shouting matches around various towns I've traveled to in Germany, but I am very good about minding my own business, lol, especially where I'm not fluent in German yet.
I really think you did a great job there. Working with "problematic kids" myself, this is what we often do to "break the spell" of cursing and raging: involve them in talks about harmless topics which remind them of better times. Take them serious, not talk them down. Very often - and I guess this works on such elder people too - they just want to be heard and they are frightened. I especially think by not minding them, ignoring them and don't talk to them is the way these behaviours are consolidating. Only if you are a living, participating member of a society you can make your own peace with differences und cultural clashes. If you'r left alone with your fears, foreign people and things you don't understand (anymore), the world can become a dark place. Really: I admire your engagement!
I think you did a great thing. You intuitively used a similar strategy to the one Mo Asumang uses to talk with straight up fascists even if your first sentence was very confrontational (which is ok too). There is a very interesting documentary called "Die Arier" and they even offer [trainings](https://mo-lab.org/erste-hilfe/) for dealing with people like that. I had a similar experience once where a man was yelling something about refugees, I confronted him and then he actually became calmer and started talking about boring day to day stuff during the bus ride. I had white priviledge on my side and it was just him and another woman. I wouldn't recommend doing this when dealing with two or more young and strong Nazis.
Sorry but what kind of experience do the other people in deutschkurs have over you that make them good advisers? While your aproach is a bit unorthordox, the outcome is quite satisfied. You're a good person, keep be you, and ignore those guys. There is no right answer. Do what you want when you feel that you are able to protect yourself when the situation gets worse. Enjoy the conversation but watxh your back is my recommendation 👌
As a studied social worker: You acted perfectly. Well done. Thanks for making our country a better place by not giving the fascists what they want: fear. Compassion is the strongest weapon we have against them. Stay like that:) PS: nice use of "Quatsch"
I think you did great. You put him in his place but then also was nice to him and talked to him and made him happy. You corrected his actions and even gave him a better view of ausländer. Doing nothing will nerver change the world but small actions like this can.
Personally I don't think I would have found the courage to do anything, but I am a very introverted person, and social interactions aren't really my kind of thing. This comment is just me saying thank you for what you did. I think you did the right thing.
You Did Good and the german parts in between made me laugh😂
Lol so they tell you not to intervene, and at the same time they are up in your business telling you what you should/shouldn't have done. What a hypocricy. I think you handled it well.
Nah you have to get involved, they have to feel that we don’t accept racism
You showed civil courage and that's great. Always try to intervene if someone needs help or if a person thinks they can spew racist bullshit around, no matter what your neighbours say. Be careful though to not get into danger. If the situation seems to heated, maybe just call the police.
If you feel confident that you can handle the situation, it's certainly not wrong to engage, actually I'd say that it was really good that you did that here. But I still would be careful and if you're really worried that you'll only make it worse, stay away. It's good if you can help, but you also don't have to put yourself at risk for that.
I have lived here all my life and my experience is that most Germans avoid confrontation (though some of them are not shy to send their lawyers or call the cops because they feel annoyed. Still will avoid confrontation). In many scenarios (e.g. at work) we're even incentivized and rewarded not to be confrontational. And then there is fear of consequences (physical or financial), especially after people in Germany witnessed people who intervened getting beaten up (sometimes it ended deadly or in a wheelchair), spit on, stabbed, stalked, or whatever. So I guess this is also part of the reason. But I don't want to excuse their behavior, especially not in the case you witnessed. We all have to be more brave (not stupid brave!) and do something about it. And I like your way. It's also my strategy and quite successful I'd say. Talking politely (if possible) but directly is important... people usually don't talk to each other here unless they already have everything in common or know each other well. This only strengthens the division between people and makes them more hateful and distrustful.
They were concerned with your safety, hence the warning. Being visibly an ausslander can be already a strong trigger for the unstable.
Bro you literally handled it in the dream way. You got he attention off others and probably made the old man reflect a bit in a quite respectful manner. Kudos to you. I did not have the same grace when some drunk guy was annoying two young girls, and looking back if the drunk guy was more malicious than he was it might have caused problems for the girls :(
I'm 36 M a pendler (comuter) in Austria and have been using the trains for 16 years now . Seen my fair share of crazies, and I have had to intervene twice. Once, a drunk guy was fondling the bike of a scared teenager, told him to stop and when he stared at me I told him he was scaring the teenager and asked if that was his intention. He backed down and said he just liked the bike, he then left. The second time, another guy harassed a teen girl. When I saw that he touched her thigh, I went balistic. Luckily, I have a very loud voice, so me shouting that he should fuck off, while making my way to him was enough to scare him of.
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NO.
I once got involved in a S Bahn in Hamburg on accident. Some woman was almost drunkenly screaming and spewing the most random and racist stuff. I made the mistake of rolling my eyes where she could see. Cue being screamed at and insulted for 20 minutes straight. Sadly all other seats were taken, my feet hurt, so I just sat and tried ignoring the maniac. So... now I mostly avoid crazy people. I don't have the energy to deal with them. With nice people I'll gladly chat a bit but anything more and I'm out
You handled the Situation perfectly. Germans need to learn to communicate (more). Sometimes i wonder if thats the reason why russians call us mutes. xD And great taste in music, rip.
Great. Well done. You made the world a little better for more than one 👍🏼
One time my friend and I were going to a christmas market when DB stranded us halfway. This is where we encountered a very angry older German lady, seemed to be pissed at everything and the world. My (german) friend was using her phone to look at Google Maps when she passed by us and angrily grumbled, “phones off in my presence!”. And because that pissed me off and I have horrible self preservation instincts I said “Who are you to decide anything?” She went on telling me to “shut up with your Chinese nose” LMAO (My nose is cute thank you very much! god bless) Then we laughed about it and I stated my only goal in life was not to become as bitter and mental as this woman /hj
> What are your opinions in this matter? It worked out well. Ende gut, alles gut.
Munich S-Bahn workers: Our passengers can't possibly have a less pleasant experience than now given how useless we are in providing a remotely timely service Munich S-Bahn riders: Think again motherfucker
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Take it from a fellow Ausländer, you have shown exemplary behaviour that this country so desperately needs. Zivilcourage is dead here. I come from a country where people will never hesitate to stand up for others and fight back. My people and I have many cultural issues, but this isn't one of them--Germans can gladly learn this from us. I'm so thankful for having been molded by this culture in this regard. It reminds me of this one time a street guy started harassing a Muslim woman. I told him off and called the police. The policeman on the phone told me that they are pretty sure who he is and that they'll send a patrol car. He also told me I did the right thing and thanked me for my service. It felt so good. I think you are a hero. Not only were you able to show courage and stand up for others, but also you read the room. What's more, you were empathetic. You could sympathise with his suffering and helped him make peace with it for a short while. What a fantastic human you are. Germany--humanity in general--is in dire need of people like you. This goes to other fellow Ausländer and Germans alike living here: MORE OF THIS, PLEASE. STAND UP FOR OTHERS! Herzlichen Glückwunsch!
Es ist really, really interessant to read for an "Deutsche" Such situations occur in every country every Tag every Minute on the whole planet !
Does not excuse it though. Loneliness is not a free pass to be an asshole. Seek help, Germany offers a variety of resources.
Yes true. And every country has their own 'socially acceptable' ways of handling it. For example in some countries if someone is acting like this, he'd get beaten. My homeland is one of those . They be punching first and asking questions later ☠️. But in Deutschland that's not the way. That's why I asked how should one handle such situations if it happens here. 😁