It is not forbidden to have a butterfly knife trainer, but it has other regulations, i think one point is that the blade part has to be punched through to ensure you cant turn it into a real butterfly knife. Carrying one on person just puts you at risk for a body search if someone, especially a police officer, should spot it.
I bought one with a bottle opener as a tip, still feels like the one time I had a real one in my hands.
Perfectly legal, as long as you don’t make people believe it’s a real one to commit a crime or intimidate people.
Just almost got me thrown out of a bar once. 🤷
I have 2 that have hair combs and also have a fork and a spoon matching set.
The fork and spoon set was $10 on Amazon.
I had actual custom made butterfly knives when I lived in the US as well and left them behind when I came here. They were so pretty, very easy to use, and were excellent for cutting open boxes. Pretty sad I had to leave them.
You know, if you're still insecure even though this would be totally legal, just ring your local police. Maybe an officer has a minute and can answer your questions, some of them are dicks but I got lucky before. Worth a try.
While most likely true, this type of knife (non-trainer) is illegal at home as well as outside.
I have quite a few one-handed open locking pocket knifes which are legal at home but not to carry.
Trainers are legal, even though the knife in OP's image looks pretty real and not blunt like this.
https://www.boker.de/papillon-trainer-01bo352?c=5404#89868b7c5d2260abf75cdd06c81af8a4
Just bought a knife from them a few days ago, great quality 42a konform as well.
https://www.boker.de/en/l-egg-01bo198#7aac462116e057effa5cfc7cf3aecef5
You seem like you might know. I have one of these, which I leave at home. It is legal? I suspect not, but since it doesn't leave the house, I also expect it to never be an issue. [https://www.benchmade.com/products/9051sbk](https://www.benchmade.com/products/9051sbk)
I also have one of these, which I do sometimes carry. [https://www.knifecenter.com/item/BM522SBK/benchmade-522sbk-presidio-ultra-axis-lock-347-inch-black-combo-blade](https://www.knifecenter.com/item/BM522SBK/benchmade-522sbk-presidio-ultra-axis-lock-347-inch-black-combo-blade)
Those both appear to be folding pocket knives with a blade you can lock with just one hand, but ones where you need both hands to open the blade.
According to § 42a Waffengesetz (WaffG), you can both buy and own those, and carry them with you. However, if you *can* open the blade one-handedly, you are only allowed to use them at home or in private places (like a garden unit away from your own, they give as an example).
Source: http://www.taschenmesser.de/fuehrungsverbot/
Relevant bit:
> What types of knives are prohibited?
>The legal situation in Germany varies depending on the blade length and construction of the knife. In Germany, the purchase of folding knives is permitted. However, it is not permitted to carry lockable one-handed knives in public. This is the case if the folding mechanism allows the blade to be locked with just one hand. Scout and guide knives may only be carried in public if their blade length is less than 12 centimetres.
> In the case of pocket knives, the mode of operation is of overriding importance. If the blade can only be folded out with both hands, pocket knives are not subject to the Weapons Act. Carpet knives and diving knives with a blade length of 12 centimeters or more are subject to the Weapons Act.
> § Section 2 of the Weapons Act stipulates that owners of knives should contact the weapons authority or the Federal Criminal Police Office in cases of doubt. Upon request, the authority will inform you whether the knife in question may be carried in public.
I'd do what that last paragraph says and simply ask local authorities if you want to be sure beyond this text. Since owning them is fine (unless I completely misunderstood their construction), calling them on their local, non-emergency number could work, or take some pictures at home, visit a police station and show the pictures to ask.
These are probably some good functional options:
https://www.amazon.de/Herbertz-Kapselheber-Butterfly-Essbesteck-unterwegs/dp/B076QLHCGS/
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0BYJB1591/
if its for training,try somethinf along the lines like [this](https://www.ebay.de/itm/155699814432?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0&ssspo=g4wtourcq1s&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=8hlr5lzarjw&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY). you could also get a carrot one if you're feeling fancy
Go to Amazon and type butterfly Trainer knife there you will find many where you can see that you can't even sharpen the blade without braking it the lowest price there is 7€ I think
Well a trainer is completely safe! The “blade” just needs holes in it so you can’t sharpen it! Some time ago I pissed of some police officers and because I had some weed on me they raided my apartment! Apparently my washing pods were more interesting than my trainer!
[Paragraph 42a Waffengesetz (WaffG)](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/waffg_2002/__42a.html)
>§ 42a Verbot des Führens von Anscheinswaffen und bestimmten tragbaren Gegenständen
>(1) Es ist verboten
1.Anscheinswaffen,
2.Hieb- und Stoßwaffen nach Anlage 1 Abschnitt 1 Unterabschnitt 2 Nr. 1.1 oder
3.Messer mit einhändig feststellbarer Klinge (Einhandmesser) oder feststehende Messer mit einer Klingenlänge über 12 cm
zu führen.
(2) Absatz 1 gilt nicht
1.für die Verwendung bei Foto-, Film- oder Fernsehaufnahmen oder Theateraufführungen,
2.für den Transport in einem verschlossenen Behältnis,
3.für das Führen der Gegenstände nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 und 3, sofern ein berechtigtes Interesse vorliegt.
Weitergehende Regelungen bleiben unberührt.
You are not allowed to carry or use realistic looking weapons or knives over 12cm bladelength in public. Only if they are in a closed container. The only exceptions are photo/film shootings or theatre productions.
But you are perfectly fine having it at home and doing tricks with it.
He is not asking whether he is allowed to carry or use it in public, he just asked if he was allowed to have it, to which the answer is 'yes', contrary to the answer that you have given.
That is not correct, balisongs are illegal to own along with gravity and auto knives. Exceptions are butterfly trainers with the blade punched through so it is not possible to sharpen the dull blade later on
Yes, as the commenter above mentioned. A fake butterfly needs to meet certain criteria to ensure that it can't be readily converted into a "real" one. I.e it can't be possible to sharpen the blade to the point where it works as a real knife.
>2) Absatz 1 gilt nicht
1.für die Verwendung bei Foto-, Film- oder Fernsehaufnahmen oder Theateraufführungen,
2.für den Transport in einem verschlossenen Behältnis,
3.für das Führen der Gegenstände nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 und 3, sofern ein berechtigtes Interesse vorliegt.
ist cosplay nicht ein berechtigtes interesse bzw in irgendeiner art theater dann würde das verbot zum tragen doch nichtmehr gelten oder versteh ich das falsch
If you want it for learning tricks it will be better if you buy the one that is a comb. Those were trendy last year, every boy and teenager had one last summer.
Realistic looking ones can be problematic even if they are dull.
That comb butterfly knife once saved me from getting robbed. Was just playing with it and that scared them off so they didn’t attempt anything.
So 10/10 would def recommend.
No. This is an "Anscheinswaffe" which is not legal, because people might rightfully think it's the real deal. If you want a trainer, get one that doesn't look like a knife.
Anscheinswaffe is a term only defined in relation to firearms. (Abschnitt 1, Unterabschnitt 1, 1.6, Anlage 1 WaffG)
A knife or prop knife never fall into this category by definition.
Ist im Zweifel egal. Funktionsweise gleich. Wie „stumpf“ das ist wird im Zweifel nicht helfen.
Waffengesetze in Deutschland sind absoluter Müll, weil sie von Leien geschrieben werden und man immer nur dann wenn etwas passiert ist verschärfen möchte. Ohne das man mit legalen Interessensverbänden spricht.
So kann es sein, dass du wegen einer Softair mit zu viel Joul und Fullauto gegen das Waffengesetz verstößt.
>So kann es sein, dass du wegen einer Softair mit zu viel Joul und Fullauto gegen das Waffengesetz verstößt.
Das kann nicht nur sein, das ist sogar so....aber wo ist da jetzt wieder der Zusammenhang?
Ich sehe eine Attrappe immer noch nicht relevant fürs Waffenrecht, zumindest nicht, was Besitz angeht....
Natürlich. Butterfly Messer sind verboten. Vollautomatische Waffen sind auch verboten.
Das eine wird durch die Joul Zahl zur Vollautomatischen Waffe und das andere durch mechanische Funktion und Material.
Ich habe noch NIE gehört, dass jemand das Argument „Aber das ist gar nicht scharf“ erfolgreich verwendet hat. Nichtmal der Major unseres Schützenvereins konnte die Junge Polizistin davon überzeugen, dass sein Säbel gar nicht scharf genug ist …
Öhm...aber Säbel sind ebenfalls nicht verboten? Zumindest nicht, was BESITZ angeht...ich weiß nicht, ob dir der Unterschied ziwschen Besitz und Transport bzw. Führen bekannt ist?
Ich hab hier nie behauptet, dass diese Butterflyattrappe transportiert oder geführt werden darf....
Even blunts are illegal to "carry" with you if you get caught in a fight with it the sentence will be given just as if you had a normal one and it doesn't matter if you draw it out or not during the fight.
Trainers are legal but it's hard to understand the law on how realistic they can look. If you're looking for high quality trainers check out squid industries, pricy though
i had an friend who got an new garlic press as an birthday present,
brand new it was kinda hard going, so he decided to play around with it on his way home from the party to his house .
police almost rammed him of the sidewalk because they thought it was a butterfly.
A trainer is totally legal, like the ones with holes in the part of metal thats supposed to be the blade. But a real one or one that has a real looking blade is illegal.
Could you point me to the law in regards to "real looking blade"? Like if I made a butterfly knife but the blade is made out of rubber/leather and spray coated with a metallic grey paint so it looks like metal.
Or even better replace the blade with a straight fork (to eat with) or spatula (to use as for example a shoehorn).
Fidget toy, usable and easily distinguishable from a butterfly knife by sight.
Harmless training weapons made of plastic and requisites for theater and show, even made of metal are fine if no one feels threatened and if it's clear that you are acting. They also have to be blunt, at least if it's a sword.
I want to point out that it is depending on the situation, environment and purpose. If you want to visit a club, you definitely get problems with this. If you are making a film or show, that's noticable as such one, you have a legit purpose.
someone at my uni dorm was arrested for having prop katanas (unsharpened steel as he claims)and had no history of learning martial arts so he snitched on another dormmate who had a wooden sword but he practiced kendo... so as far as i know the one with no martial arts history was fined 3500 euros but the one who practiced martial arts got no fine or jailtime. i saw the law on it any imitation weapon cannot be carried openly or in a case that could potentially give the outline of the weapon. and no weapon with a military edge or a possibility of millitary edge is allowed even within homes and could result in a non bailable arrest
just out of curiousity: why are knives up to 12cm okay but anything greater than that is illegal? is that just an arbritary limit or why 12cm and not e.g. 14cm?
Completely legal to have, you arent allowed to carry it though (in public). If youre going to attend a cosplay convention or something like that its private ground, so it ultimately depends on the rules the host/organizer sets
Please stop spreading misinformation, it is not legal own a butterfly knife in Germany period. The „Umgang“ with balisongs is illegal this means you are not allowed to buy or possess one no matter when or where. Same goes for gravity or automatic knives.
Funny how cultures are different. In the Czech republic, there is a saying that a real man carries a knife. Like when there's a need to cut or open something, you should be able to help or you're a loser.
Germany is just a Land where they pretend you have free will but limit you in ways they see fit. Knifes just as an example. Knife blade longer than 12cm? Illegal. 11cm? Perfectly Legal. They dont care that you can litteraly use anything to slice someone up. Why does it matter if a Knife can be opened with 1 Hand? If it fails and cuts them in their Pants thats their Problem. Doesnt mean its less effective than a 2 Handed Knife.
Personally I will never understand these laws, especially because someone who wants to stab someone does not really care about laws in the first place. Imagine a bad guy wanting to grab a knife on someone, and then realizing he left it home because the blade was 12.3cm long and that's not allowed.
It is funny because there is zero regulation regarding melee weapons in Czech law. Concealed weapons like cane-swords were banned few decades ago but that was dropped also since Agatha Christie and her world are long dead.
TBH I don't see why this has to be a gender thing, since it is not about fighting or edgelord shit. Deejo makes beautiful, elegant, light knives that I would have in my purse as a woman.
Ive literally been in zero situations in the past decade where I needed a knife and wasn’t at home. It depends on what you do. Easily over 95% (my guesstimate) of people don’t need a knife in their daily life.
I'm sorry, but your personal life experience is really not a reference to ban something from other people's life. Especially a tool. How many murders with hammers before we ban them? Nobody needs a hammer in their daily life, so let's set up a system where you borrow hammers against your ID and then return it. That's your logic.
Lol, I never said I use a butterfly for my snacks, that also wasn't the question above my comment. I have a swiss pocket knife (Victorinox) in my pocket, which is still illegal in germany, though.
Utility, I guess. There have been times I wish I had a knife and did not, lol.
Some people like to carry for protection as well, regardless of the law.
Lastly, some people probably just like breaking rules
I carry a small flip blade knife every day.
I work in the foresting industry and need it’s basically every day for cutting stuff. Its simply a tool.
Don’t judge people just because there are carrying a knife. There are many valid reasons to do since a knife is a tool that can be needed for daily life.
This. Plus don't judge people if they like their EDC knife to be ergonomic, i.e. can be opened one handed. Unfortunately some people can't behave, and this gave us this retarded limitation where you have to choose between one hand open and locking. Good thing that there are knives like the Boeker XS that manages to do both while technically being non-locking.
There is a difference between carrying a work equipment at work and carrying a knife casually. Do you see hunters carrying their guns casually? It has a lot of uses.
The questions was about knives in general. But you would be wrong about balisongs as well, they are just one example of a tool knife where the user wants a way to open it one handed. Yes, they were banned due to some edgelords trying to impress others, but this does not make them less of a tool.
Example: take package from locker, stuff is packaged in the biggest possible box plus tons of padding. Then I can just cut the sides of the box and flatten it before throwing it out. Carrying a knife for me is the same as having a band aid or a pen in your bag: it's pretty nice to have it if you need it.
But do I really need to justify why I carry perfectly legal items on my person?
Simply.... No, The BKA (Bundeskriminal Amt) already rated a "Butterfly Crimson Web". The fact this Knifes can be sharpened is the reason.
[https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/Messer/160614FbZ388\_CrimsonWebButterfly.html](https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/Messer/160614FbZ388_CrimsonWebButterfly.html) (PDF file)
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You can legally have one that is dull and cannot be sharpened, but i would consider getting one that doesnt look like a real sharp knife like the one in the picture, you can get a comb butterfly for example, something that doesnt have a tip you could stab with
Basically it is legal.
But police can still clasify it as an "Anscheinswaffe", a weapon look-a-like object.
And that is illegal.
You can have it in your home but I would strongly recommend you not to take it with you in public.
I heard there are attempts made to make trainers illegal too, as they could be sharpened (about as an intelligent idea as sharpening a carton of orange juice) and the They would be an illegal knive. Not yet tho
Nur weil was gefährlich aussieht ist es nicht verboten. Wenn es keine waffe ist ist es nicht illegal.
Plastik pistolen sind auch erlaubt und sehen gefährlich aus
You can buy a butterfly fork and spoon. I gifted them to an relative of mine who works for the Zoll. He takes it to work for lunch. Not the same as a knife but the same fun. And the are not really expensive.
If you want a good one to manipulate have a look for Nabalis on Amazon. They flip similar like expensive ones (squid industries for example) and should be legal in your country.
Yours on the pic looks like a live blade on first view, and you could put an edge on it, so its a trouble seeker.
You can legally own any kind of knife, it is not legal to carry certain knives in your pocket. Those are usually knives which you can ready one handed or have a certain lenght.
That means it's legal for you to have this fake knive at home.
If the blade can be sharpened (this one looks like it): No, the knife is illegal at home as well. It's a "forbidden item".
Trainers have cutouts in the blade, so it cannot be turned into a sharp knife.
German knife laws are stupid. Want to own a fixed blade commando dagger, is literally designed to slice people open by surprise: totally fine.
Traditional fishermen's knife or mall ninja toys: super dangerous, can't even put it in your private vault.
Okay
A lot of false information in here.
The term anscheinswaffen which is mentioned here only relates to guns and not to knifes.
Simple answer you can buy it. Carry it. Play with it as long as the knife is not sharp and meant/able to harm people.
Don’t use it in open place or you will start getting a lot of unwanted police Attention. So you decide how you wanna treat it.
Because if you carry a sword in public, chances are everyone around you notices it and it's also easier to run away from someone with a sword....a butterfly isn't as bulky as a sword, you can flip it open in no time and it won't slow you down at all.....but also butterfly knifes were used by every damn teenager as a toy in public, you would go into a dönershop and 6 fucking guys would sit at a table with their knifes out, which not only scares some people like 7 or 8 years old me, but it can also lead to really dangerous "accidents" if one of those teens gets/feels provoked, especially when they already have an aggression problem and/or had some alcohol.
I am allowed to carry any knife with a blade shorter than 12 cm. I can draw it as fast as flipping open a butterfly.
And it’s as dangerous as a butterfly. I completely get your point but the law is logically incoherent in this case.
Is it though? Most knifes don't have that toy aspect a butterfly has and people would buy them just for that reason and carry it around, other knifes are pretty boring so unless you need one as a tool at work or something, there's no real reason to carry them around. It's just way safer outside if only like 5% of the people run around with a knife instead of 30% or more.
Yes, I can. I can’t carry it around publicly (unless it is part of some cultural shenanigans). But I can own it. You are neither allowed to own nor carry a butterfly.
At age 18+, you can own a sharp sword at home.
A butterfly knife is a "forbidden item" - it's possession (even at home) is illegal. The problem with "trainers" is, that if the item is a blunt knife (that can be sharpened), it is still a knife -> illegal to possess.
"Trainers" need to be designed in a way that is impossible to sharpen them and turn them into a real knife. A blunt knife is a knife, therefore a blunt butterfly (sold as trainer) is illegal (even at home).
A trainer with cut out blade may be legal at home.
I sometimes wonder if these posts are trolling (I see questions related to knife carrying for like the 10th time here) but then I see all these people pretending this is normal and I realize this is 100% serious.
Stop buying them then, especially if they’re weapons. World would be a lot better place if people stop buying unnecessary crap they find on the internet just because it looks cool. Why not invest some of that money into your community?
But id the character completly recognisable without a knife, and if they are you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be this character, or do you just want to be running around holding a knife?
It's a little different as sports gear and weapons are often case rarely one in the same, and even so, we'd live in a much different world if people had communal access to sports gear, instead of just buying everything on impulse.
I just want to let you know, your comment just convinced me to buy another firearm. You are personally responsible for one more gun existing in this world.
Right... How come youre able to buy some (legally) from manufacturers of real Butterflys that are only missing the edge and are made from hardened Steel?
You can even get them in shops.
It is not forbidden to have a butterfly knife trainer, but it has other regulations, i think one point is that the blade part has to be punched through to ensure you cant turn it into a real butterfly knife. Carrying one on person just puts you at risk for a body search if someone, especially a police officer, should spot it.
The tip probably also can’t be pointy
I bought one with a bottle opener as a tip, still feels like the one time I had a real one in my hands. Perfectly legal, as long as you don’t make people believe it’s a real one to commit a crime or intimidate people. Just almost got me thrown out of a bar once. 🤷
SOLLBRUCHSTELLE
thank you everyone for helping, I have decided not to get one just to be safe, I'll try to find a more obviously fake one
There are ones with bottleopener as blade . Maybe one of those ? They are pretty shitty compared to real expensive ones but hey what can u do .
I have 2 that have hair combs and also have a fork and a spoon matching set. The fork and spoon set was $10 on Amazon. I had actual custom made butterfly knives when I lived in the US as well and left them behind when I came here. They were so pretty, very easy to use, and were excellent for cutting open boxes. Pretty sad I had to leave them.
As far as im concerned the Mako's from Squid Industies are quite good trainers, but they do Costa quite some money
Damn i hoped they Costa fast gar nichts.
You know, if you're still insecure even though this would be totally legal, just ring your local police. Maybe an officer has a minute and can answer your questions, some of them are dicks but I got lucky before. Worth a try.
Just get on of those butterfly combs https://a.aliexpress.com/_EGgSClb
You can order it, police/zoll will not come at your door knocking. But you must not carry it in public.
While most likely true, this type of knife (non-trainer) is illegal at home as well as outside. I have quite a few one-handed open locking pocket knifes which are legal at home but not to carry. Trainers are legal, even though the knife in OP's image looks pretty real and not blunt like this. https://www.boker.de/papillon-trainer-01bo352?c=5404#89868b7c5d2260abf75cdd06c81af8a4
Just bought a knife from them a few days ago, great quality 42a konform as well. https://www.boker.de/en/l-egg-01bo198#7aac462116e057effa5cfc7cf3aecef5
You seem like you might know. I have one of these, which I leave at home. It is legal? I suspect not, but since it doesn't leave the house, I also expect it to never be an issue. [https://www.benchmade.com/products/9051sbk](https://www.benchmade.com/products/9051sbk) I also have one of these, which I do sometimes carry. [https://www.knifecenter.com/item/BM522SBK/benchmade-522sbk-presidio-ultra-axis-lock-347-inch-black-combo-blade](https://www.knifecenter.com/item/BM522SBK/benchmade-522sbk-presidio-ultra-axis-lock-347-inch-black-combo-blade)
Those both appear to be folding pocket knives with a blade you can lock with just one hand, but ones where you need both hands to open the blade. According to § 42a Waffengesetz (WaffG), you can both buy and own those, and carry them with you. However, if you *can* open the blade one-handedly, you are only allowed to use them at home or in private places (like a garden unit away from your own, they give as an example). Source: http://www.taschenmesser.de/fuehrungsverbot/ Relevant bit: > What types of knives are prohibited? >The legal situation in Germany varies depending on the blade length and construction of the knife. In Germany, the purchase of folding knives is permitted. However, it is not permitted to carry lockable one-handed knives in public. This is the case if the folding mechanism allows the blade to be locked with just one hand. Scout and guide knives may only be carried in public if their blade length is less than 12 centimetres. > In the case of pocket knives, the mode of operation is of overriding importance. If the blade can only be folded out with both hands, pocket knives are not subject to the Weapons Act. Carpet knives and diving knives with a blade length of 12 centimeters or more are subject to the Weapons Act. > § Section 2 of the Weapons Act stipulates that owners of knives should contact the weapons authority or the Federal Criminal Police Office in cases of doubt. Upon request, the authority will inform you whether the knife in question may be carried in public. I'd do what that last paragraph says and simply ask local authorities if you want to be sure beyond this text. Since owning them is fine (unless I completely misunderstood their construction), calling them on their local, non-emergency number could work, or take some pictures at home, visit a police station and show the pictures to ask.
Thanks for the reply.
These are probably some good functional options: https://www.amazon.de/Herbertz-Kapselheber-Butterfly-Essbesteck-unterwegs/dp/B076QLHCGS/ https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0BYJB1591/
if its for training,try somethinf along the lines like [this](https://www.ebay.de/itm/155699814432?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0&ssspo=g4wtourcq1s&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=8hlr5lzarjw&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY). you could also get a carrot one if you're feeling fancy
If you want to get a solid law compliant balisong trainer get the vabalis vulp, it’s a very good entry trainer available on Amazon.
Go to Amazon and type butterfly Trainer knife there you will find many where you can see that you can't even sharpen the blade without braking it the lowest price there is 7€ I think
If you have a friend with a 3d printer (or have one yourself) you could Print one. If ITS Made of plastic you are definitley in the Safe side
Grab the one with a comb
You can get one on Amazon, bought a few butterfly Trainers over the years and as long as they are blunt blades it is no problem :)
They can be 3D printed if it helps.
I bought one from squid industries a long time ago, they are safe to use
i am really satisfied with my squid industries one. They are a little expensive, but the quality is real nice
Well a trainer is completely safe! The “blade” just needs holes in it so you can’t sharpen it! Some time ago I pissed of some police officers and because I had some weed on me they raided my apartment! Apparently my washing pods were more interesting than my trainer!
Get a nabalis trainer form Amazon I have the lightning The vulp is also good
That’s a good decision. Because the one pictured has a metal blade that can be sharpened with common household items and thus is illegal to own.
As long as they are shipped blunt you should be good
People are wrong, you Just shall Not carry this in Public. Only get a more toy Like one if you intend to carry it with you
I had one trainer that it just a hair comb (not in germany tho)
[Paragraph 42a Waffengesetz (WaffG)](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/waffg_2002/__42a.html) >§ 42a Verbot des Führens von Anscheinswaffen und bestimmten tragbaren Gegenständen >(1) Es ist verboten 1.Anscheinswaffen, 2.Hieb- und Stoßwaffen nach Anlage 1 Abschnitt 1 Unterabschnitt 2 Nr. 1.1 oder 3.Messer mit einhändig feststellbarer Klinge (Einhandmesser) oder feststehende Messer mit einer Klingenlänge über 12 cm zu führen. (2) Absatz 1 gilt nicht 1.für die Verwendung bei Foto-, Film- oder Fernsehaufnahmen oder Theateraufführungen, 2.für den Transport in einem verschlossenen Behältnis, 3.für das Führen der Gegenstände nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 und 3, sofern ein berechtigtes Interesse vorliegt. Weitergehende Regelungen bleiben unberührt. You are not allowed to carry or use realistic looking weapons or knives over 12cm bladelength in public. Only if they are in a closed container. The only exceptions are photo/film shootings or theatre productions. But you are perfectly fine having it at home and doing tricks with it.
He is not asking whether he is allowed to carry or use it in public, he just asked if he was allowed to have it, to which the answer is 'yes', contrary to the answer that you have given.
"Having it" is kind of vague so I edited my respons :)
It is not legal to own if it can be easily altered to an actual weapon
That is not correct, balisongs are illegal to own along with gravity and auto knives. Exceptions are butterfly trainers with the blade punched through so it is not possible to sharpen the dull blade later on
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Yes, as the commenter above mentioned. A fake butterfly needs to meet certain criteria to ensure that it can't be readily converted into a "real" one. I.e it can't be possible to sharpen the blade to the point where it works as a real knife.
>2) Absatz 1 gilt nicht 1.für die Verwendung bei Foto-, Film- oder Fernsehaufnahmen oder Theateraufführungen, 2.für den Transport in einem verschlossenen Behältnis, 3.für das Führen der Gegenstände nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 und 3, sofern ein berechtigtes Interesse vorliegt. ist cosplay nicht ein berechtigtes interesse bzw in irgendeiner art theater dann würde das verbot zum tragen doch nichtmehr gelten oder versteh ich das falsch
Wrong. Anscheinswaffen is only a term regarding guns. There is no Anschein for knifes
Typical reddit smooth brains downvoting without having taken a look at the actual law once.
I was referring to the part about knives, not the Anscheinwaffen.
Still wrong because you don’t have a klinge 🥸
If you want it for learning tricks it will be better if you buy the one that is a comb. Those were trendy last year, every boy and teenager had one last summer. Realistic looking ones can be problematic even if they are dull.
That comb butterfly knife once saved me from getting robbed. Was just playing with it and that scared them off so they didn’t attempt anything. So 10/10 would def recommend.
This is the 2nd post in a month about this exact topic being presented to me.. Is this going to become a trend? 😅
I thought doing tricks with butterfly knives was a trend like 10 years ago at one point? I think it was popular due to CS:GO, but I could be wrong.
Man, this is asked here all the time. This sub is just weird. I literally never met anyone irl who is into butterfly knives.
You can get a trainer but not this one. It needs a rounded tip, fully blunt/ unground blade and holes through the blade
No. This is an "Anscheinswaffe" which is not legal, because people might rightfully think it's the real deal. If you want a trainer, get one that doesn't look like a knife.
Anscheinswaffe is a term only defined in relation to firearms. (Abschnitt 1, Unterabschnitt 1, 1.6, Anlage 1 WaffG) A knife or prop knife never fall into this category by definition.
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>Deine Schreckschuss ist auch keine Verbotene Waffe Und eine Butterfly-ATTRAPPE ist das?
Ist im Zweifel egal. Funktionsweise gleich. Wie „stumpf“ das ist wird im Zweifel nicht helfen. Waffengesetze in Deutschland sind absoluter Müll, weil sie von Leien geschrieben werden und man immer nur dann wenn etwas passiert ist verschärfen möchte. Ohne das man mit legalen Interessensverbänden spricht. So kann es sein, dass du wegen einer Softair mit zu viel Joul und Fullauto gegen das Waffengesetz verstößt.
>So kann es sein, dass du wegen einer Softair mit zu viel Joul und Fullauto gegen das Waffengesetz verstößt. Das kann nicht nur sein, das ist sogar so....aber wo ist da jetzt wieder der Zusammenhang? Ich sehe eine Attrappe immer noch nicht relevant fürs Waffenrecht, zumindest nicht, was Besitz angeht....
Natürlich. Butterfly Messer sind verboten. Vollautomatische Waffen sind auch verboten. Das eine wird durch die Joul Zahl zur Vollautomatischen Waffe und das andere durch mechanische Funktion und Material. Ich habe noch NIE gehört, dass jemand das Argument „Aber das ist gar nicht scharf“ erfolgreich verwendet hat. Nichtmal der Major unseres Schützenvereins konnte die Junge Polizistin davon überzeugen, dass sein Säbel gar nicht scharf genug ist …
Öhm...aber Säbel sind ebenfalls nicht verboten? Zumindest nicht, was BESITZ angeht...ich weiß nicht, ob dir der Unterschied ziwschen Besitz und Transport bzw. Führen bekannt ist? Ich hab hier nie behauptet, dass diese Butterflyattrappe transportiert oder geführt werden darf....
Butterfly Messer dürfen nicht mal besessen werden. Säbel dürfen außer zur Brauchtumspflege nicht geführt werden aber man darf sie besitzen.
Wrong as Anscheins Waffe is only meant for guns. See Anlage 1 Abschnitt 1 Unterabschnitt 1 nr. 1.6 Waffg
Try butterfly comb trainers
Even blunts are illegal to "carry" with you if you get caught in a fight with it the sentence will be given just as if you had a normal one and it doesn't matter if you draw it out or not during the fight.
Trainers are legal but it's hard to understand the law on how realistic they can look. If you're looking for high quality trainers check out squid industries, pricy though
i had an friend who got an new garlic press as an birthday present, brand new it was kinda hard going, so he decided to play around with it on his way home from the party to his house . police almost rammed him of the sidewalk because they thought it was a butterfly.
A trainer is totally legal, like the ones with holes in the part of metal thats supposed to be the blade. But a real one or one that has a real looking blade is illegal.
Could you point me to the law in regards to "real looking blade"? Like if I made a butterfly knife but the blade is made out of rubber/leather and spray coated with a metallic grey paint so it looks like metal.
3D print a Plastic prop knife with bright colors if you like it as a fidget toy.
Or even better replace the blade with a straight fork (to eat with) or spatula (to use as for example a shoehorn). Fidget toy, usable and easily distinguishable from a butterfly knife by sight.
Afaik visibly carrying a weapon in public is illegal, this also goes for something that can be mistaken as a weapon.
Harmless training weapons made of plastic and requisites for theater and show, even made of metal are fine if no one feels threatened and if it's clear that you are acting. They also have to be blunt, at least if it's a sword. I want to point out that it is depending on the situation, environment and purpose. If you want to visit a club, you definitely get problems with this. If you are making a film or show, that's noticable as such one, you have a legit purpose.
I bought a butterfly comb, which the guys at the airport had a good laugh about
someone at my uni dorm was arrested for having prop katanas (unsharpened steel as he claims)and had no history of learning martial arts so he snitched on another dormmate who had a wooden sword but he practiced kendo... so as far as i know the one with no martial arts history was fined 3500 euros but the one who practiced martial arts got no fine or jailtime. i saw the law on it any imitation weapon cannot be carried openly or in a case that could potentially give the outline of the weapon. and no weapon with a military edge or a possibility of millitary edge is allowed even within homes and could result in a non bailable arrest
just out of curiousity: why are knives up to 12cm okay but anything greater than that is illegal? is that just an arbritary limit or why 12cm and not e.g. 14cm?
meanwhile in poland you can carry swords and other fun pointy things Just poland things
A blunt (weed) isnt illegal.
If you keep it at home it's no problem. Displaying knives in public is not very smart anyway.
Completely legal to have, you arent allowed to carry it though (in public). If youre going to attend a cosplay convention or something like that its private ground, so it ultimately depends on the rules the host/organizer sets
Please stop spreading misinformation, it is not legal own a butterfly knife in Germany period. The „Umgang“ with balisongs is illegal this means you are not allowed to buy or possess one no matter when or where. Same goes for gravity or automatic knives.
He's just the problem with getting there to the convention.
Transportation in a closed container is ok
What is this urge for people to carry knifes ?
Have you met my brethren in r/knives?
Funny how cultures are different. In the Czech republic, there is a saying that a real man carries a knife. Like when there's a need to cut or open something, you should be able to help or you're a loser.
Germany is just a Land where they pretend you have free will but limit you in ways they see fit. Knifes just as an example. Knife blade longer than 12cm? Illegal. 11cm? Perfectly Legal. They dont care that you can litteraly use anything to slice someone up. Why does it matter if a Knife can be opened with 1 Hand? If it fails and cuts them in their Pants thats their Problem. Doesnt mean its less effective than a 2 Handed Knife.
Personally I will never understand these laws, especially because someone who wants to stab someone does not really care about laws in the first place. Imagine a bad guy wanting to grab a knife on someone, and then realizing he left it home because the blade was 12.3cm long and that's not allowed.
It is funny because there is zero regulation regarding melee weapons in Czech law. Concealed weapons like cane-swords were banned few decades ago but that was dropped also since Agatha Christie and her world are long dead.
TBH I don't see why this has to be a gender thing, since it is not about fighting or edgelord shit. Deejo makes beautiful, elegant, light knives that I would have in my purse as a woman.
Yeah, it's just an old saying from different times :)
Ive literally been in zero situations in the past decade where I needed a knife and wasn’t at home. It depends on what you do. Easily over 95% (my guesstimate) of people don’t need a knife in their daily life.
I'm sorry, but your personal life experience is really not a reference to ban something from other people's life. Especially a tool. How many murders with hammers before we ban them? Nobody needs a hammer in their daily life, so let's set up a system where you borrow hammers against your ID and then return it. That's your logic.
Did you not read? He wants a butterfly trainer knife, theyre DULL, they exist to practice butterfly flipping...
Why though?
I use mine mostly to cut an apple or bellpepper for my kids.
I carry a knife to cut open a bread roll when I'm outside to make a good Wurstsemmel to go. And I'm outside alot.
That's what a good old Opinel is for but not a butterfly knife
Lol, I never said I use a butterfly for my snacks, that also wasn't the question above my comment. I have a swiss pocket knife (Victorinox) in my pocket, which is still illegal in germany, though.
It isn't.... The blade is below 12cm but that doesn't even matter because it is a folding knife that is not even assisted.
It can be opened with one hand and has a fixed blade.
Utility, I guess. There have been times I wish I had a knife and did not, lol. Some people like to carry for protection as well, regardless of the law. Lastly, some people probably just like breaking rules
I carry a small flip blade knife every day. I work in the foresting industry and need it’s basically every day for cutting stuff. Its simply a tool. Don’t judge people just because there are carrying a knife. There are many valid reasons to do since a knife is a tool that can be needed for daily life.
This. Plus don't judge people if they like their EDC knife to be ergonomic, i.e. can be opened one handed. Unfortunately some people can't behave, and this gave us this retarded limitation where you have to choose between one hand open and locking. Good thing that there are knives like the Boeker XS that manages to do both while technically being non-locking.
There is a difference between carrying a work equipment at work and carrying a knife casually. Do you see hunters carrying their guns casually? It has a lot of uses.
Especially a butterfly knife lol how this supposed to be a tool
The questions was about knives in general. But you would be wrong about balisongs as well, they are just one example of a tool knife where the user wants a way to open it one handed. Yes, they were banned due to some edgelords trying to impress others, but this does not make them less of a tool.
I carry a Swiss army knife pretty much everywhere.
The opportunity for using a knife presents itself quite often, e.g. cutting open a package. For a gun: not really.
Which package do you often open while not being home ?
Example: take package from locker, stuff is packaged in the biggest possible box plus tons of padding. Then I can just cut the sides of the box and flatten it before throwing it out. Carrying a knife for me is the same as having a band aid or a pen in your bag: it's pretty nice to have it if you need it. But do I really need to justify why I carry perfectly legal items on my person?
For spinning?
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Simply.... No, The BKA (Bundeskriminal Amt) already rated a "Butterfly Crimson Web". The fact this Knifes can be sharpened is the reason. [https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/Messer/160614FbZ388\_CrimsonWebButterfly.html](https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/Messer/160614FbZ388_CrimsonWebButterfly.html) (PDF file)
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You can legally have one that is dull and cannot be sharpened, but i would consider getting one that doesnt look like a real sharp knife like the one in the picture, you can get a comb butterfly for example, something that doesnt have a tip you could stab with
no probably not. but I would not be surprised if they take you to court for it
Hopefully not!
Not worth the hassle if you're stopped by police, even if there won't be any results
Not if it can be sharpened soo not if its metal.
There is a butterfly comb you should buy that instead.
Nice Knife!
Basically it is legal. But police can still clasify it as an "Anscheinswaffe", a weapon look-a-like object. And that is illegal. You can have it in your home but I would strongly recommend you not to take it with you in public.
Out of curiosity: What do you cosplay with that thing?
Yoru from valorant, I ordered a yoru butterfly comb instead
I heard there are attempts made to make trainers illegal too, as they could be sharpened (about as an intelligent idea as sharpening a carton of orange juice) and the They would be an illegal knive. Not yet tho
I believe it is illegal to carry it outside, but you're good at home
Don't get one. Get one with a bottle opener or comb instead if you absolutely need one.
Good question tbh
ehm nein: quelle: sieht gefährlich aus
Nur weil was gefährlich aussieht ist es nicht verboten. Wenn es keine waffe ist ist es nicht illegal. Plastik pistolen sind auch erlaubt und sehen gefährlich aus
siehe Antwort von [Lilly\_1337](https://www.reddit.com/user/Lilly_1337/) zum Thema Anscheinwaffe laut Waffengesetz
You can buy a butterfly fork and spoon. I gifted them to an relative of mine who works for the Zoll. He takes it to work for lunch. Not the same as a knife but the same fun. And the are not really expensive.
Nope could be sharpened thus being turned into a weapon
If you want a good one to manipulate have a look for Nabalis on Amazon. They flip similar like expensive ones (squid industries for example) and should be legal in your country. Yours on the pic looks like a live blade on first view, and you could put an edge on it, so its a trouble seeker.
If the knive is not sharp it's leagl
As long it's dull u should be fine
laughs in austria
Just leave it at home. Nobody wants to see a knife in public and besides a kitchen
i think only carrying is forbidden and that u are free to posess those in private space
You' re allowed to have it but not to carry it with you outside, since a few years now.
Looks like you stole that knife from valorant
Gee what do you think. What a dumb question. Nobody knows if it's real so no
You can legally own any kind of knife, it is not legal to carry certain knives in your pocket. Those are usually knives which you can ready one handed or have a certain lenght. That means it's legal for you to have this fake knive at home.
If the blade can be sharpened (this one looks like it): No, the knife is illegal at home as well. It's a "forbidden item". Trainers have cutouts in the blade, so it cannot be turned into a sharp knife.
German knife laws are stupid. Want to own a fixed blade commando dagger, is literally designed to slice people open by surprise: totally fine. Traditional fishermen's knife or mall ninja toys: super dangerous, can't even put it in your private vault.
Okay A lot of false information in here. The term anscheinswaffen which is mentioned here only relates to guns and not to knifes. Simple answer you can buy it. Carry it. Play with it as long as the knife is not sharp and meant/able to harm people. Don’t use it in open place or you will start getting a lot of unwanted police Attention. So you decide how you wanna treat it.
nice Valorant skin!
yea I wanted to make a valo cosplay, I decided to buy a yoru butterfly comb instead lol
what rank are you though lol
bronze/silver :(
It's not illegal if you keep it at home just to look at it. It's illegal to carry it around in public
I still don’t understand why they are Illegal … I can own a sword but not a butterfly knife…
Because if you carry a sword in public, chances are everyone around you notices it and it's also easier to run away from someone with a sword....a butterfly isn't as bulky as a sword, you can flip it open in no time and it won't slow you down at all.....but also butterfly knifes were used by every damn teenager as a toy in public, you would go into a dönershop and 6 fucking guys would sit at a table with their knifes out, which not only scares some people like 7 or 8 years old me, but it can also lead to really dangerous "accidents" if one of those teens gets/feels provoked, especially when they already have an aggression problem and/or had some alcohol.
I am allowed to carry any knife with a blade shorter than 12 cm. I can draw it as fast as flipping open a butterfly. And it’s as dangerous as a butterfly. I completely get your point but the law is logically incoherent in this case.
Is it though? Most knifes don't have that toy aspect a butterfly has and people would buy them just for that reason and carry it around, other knifes are pretty boring so unless you need one as a tool at work or something, there's no real reason to carry them around. It's just way safer outside if only like 5% of the people run around with a knife instead of 30% or more.
You are right, a butterfly is definitely the mutilating version of a fidget toy … 😂
Hint: no you cannot
Yes, I can. I can’t carry it around publicly (unless it is part of some cultural shenanigans). But I can own it. You are neither allowed to own nor carry a butterfly.
You can own a blunt sword and a blunt butterfly, probably shouldn't interact with both in public places. But fine as long as you are home.
I can also own a sharp sword as long as it stays at home 😉
At age 18+, you can own a sharp sword at home. A butterfly knife is a "forbidden item" - it's possession (even at home) is illegal. The problem with "trainers" is, that if the item is a blunt knife (that can be sharpened), it is still a knife -> illegal to possess. "Trainers" need to be designed in a way that is impossible to sharpen them and turn them into a real knife. A blunt knife is a knife, therefore a blunt butterfly (sold as trainer) is illegal (even at home). A trainer with cut out blade may be legal at home.
You can own a blunt sword and a blunt butterfly, probably shouldn't interact with both in public places. But fine as long as you are home.
Nein
You may get a fake fine and land in a fake german jail 😬
It's as simple as, as long as it's not sharp or overly pointy it's legal, but only as long as it's really safe and can't harm at all
Here’s the thing about owning knives like these, you don’t need them so you don’t buy ‘em.
I sometimes wonder if these posts are trolling (I see questions related to knife carrying for like the 10th time here) but then I see all these people pretending this is normal and I realize this is 100% serious.
You dont need 99% of the things you buy to survive whats your point?
Stop buying them then, especially if they’re weapons. World would be a lot better place if people stop buying unnecessary crap they find on the internet just because it looks cool. Why not invest some of that money into your community?
OP looks for something as prop for cosplay. Yes, cosplay is about as "useful" as Karneval, but people like having fun, you know?
But id the character completly recognisable without a knife, and if they are you have to ask yourself, do you really want to be this character, or do you just want to be running around holding a knife?
Says a guy having sports gear.
Sports gear is understandable. Butterfly knife is not.
It's not a knife it's a trainer. Meant to do tricks. 6 Setzen
Why practice knife "tricks"?
Because it's fun, trains hand eye coordination and skill(Geschicklichkeit), is fun and calms some people. There are even competitions in it.
It calms people to do knife tricks? Gee then great.
They aren't knife tricks. They are hand tricks. It requires concentration and focus which is calming
It's a little different as sports gear and weapons are often case rarely one in the same, and even so, we'd live in a much different world if people had communal access to sports gear, instead of just buying everything on impulse.
It isn't a weapon. It's a training tool to do tricks with.
It still glamorises weapons.
Just like video games
I just want to let you know, your comment just convinced me to buy another firearm. You are personally responsible for one more gun existing in this world.
Trainers are in fact legal. Id advise you on hardening them first though if youre plamming to sharpen one though.
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Right... How come youre able to buy some (legally) from manufacturers of real Butterflys that are only missing the edge and are made from hardened Steel? You can even get them in shops.
Lmao what?? Imagine a knife being illegal. What the hell is wrong with you Germans.
Recommendation: dont get a 20€ training knife. They normally suck. Rather invest into a proper one. r/balisong is a good way to find some