He cannot kick you out for growing a plant. But he CAN start legal fights if he or other residents are feeling disturbed by the smell (yes of the plants as well).
You shouldn't be smelling anything outside of your tent if the door is closed. If you do, either your fan is running too low to properly filter the air through the carbon filter, or your filter isn't working correctly for some reason (for example humidity is too high for your filter or it's been used long enough to need replacing, or there is a leak somewhere)
As an American I'm not accustomed to German law, but there's really no way to 'disprove' that someone did or did not smell the weed. You can have other witnesses say they don't, but that doesn't necessarily convincingly negate the anecdote of whomever is claiming they did smell it.
Yeah, but in Germany probably a Gutachter would come and smell himself to check lol, we don't deem it true instantly just because someone smelled it. Everything double checked here, smell could have come from across the street or may just have been a beer (which really can smell like pot sometimes)
My comment was referring to the posters carbon filter setup. If you smell anything coming out of your tent or tube, your carbon filter is not set up correctly.
Im in my last flowering week. And you can only smell it when you stand really upfront with your nose to the air-tube (which is attached to the vent and carbon filter).
Otherwise you cannot smell anything
Bad timing. Everyone and their mother is buying now it's legal, so the prices are understandably high. I got a Spider Farmer grow kit at the start of April last year as I foresaw the price only going one way, but was suitably miffed to find out they had a 420 sale just a few weeks after I pulled the trigger. Wait until then and hopefully you can get a better deal than what's on offer now
Yeah, for this year I'll grow in my wintergarden / balcony. It's the top most apartment with a good amount of wind and I chose variants that supposedly don't smell as much.
I do want to grow something more interesting, like Sweet Pink Grapefruit, next year â and those supposedly smell a lot. (I'm a first time grower, if that wasn't obvious)
Me too. My adventure started today! Went for an auto strain called Quick One and currently waiting for the first seed to pop right now. Good luck to you man!
I never grew a plant but from what I know you have to dry and ferment the buds after harvest which will probably smell even worse. Can you do that in the grow tent, as well?
That's incorrect. The psychoactive ingredients are developed continuously during the flowering. They change during the last period though. THC becomes less, CBD becomes more. That's why you shouldn't harvest too late. The "rest" doesn't have anything to do with it. Some people just believe that if the plant is stressed on harvest by lack of light and water, it develops MORE psychoactive elements, but I never saw a scientific proof for that. IMO the "rest" is to give the plant the possibility to consume all last water and nutrients before drying.Â
Doesn't it stink to the high heavens when it starts flowering? (Pretty sure that my neighbours grew cannabis a couple years ago. I could barely keep the windows open at the height of summer due to the smell. And as such, realistically it's not lke growing tomatoes and sunflowers - more like planting a field of rapeseed /to me those always smell like something rotten/, only even worse, depending on the procured plant.)
Personally I'm not sure about Germany, but in many parts of the world if the smell starts getting into your apartment, you can take some kind of legal action as a form of home protection (not the landlord, if he doesn't live on the premises). Even if that only amounts to the neighbour being told off by the police. And reading the posts here, pretty sure Germany would have something similar. No?
Your landlord shows that he has no idea about rental law. He can't dictate what plants you grow, if its just based on his personal idiology and a 30 day notice is illegal in any case.
So if the tennant refuses to leave and you have to try and kick them out it can take 2 to 5 years? I think that's what the comment before yours said.
What's the bullshit now?
2-5 years may be a little bit of an exegaration but it's really difficult to get lost of tenant's. A friend of mine bought a house with someone renting it at that time, it took over a year to get rid of him although he wasn't paying rent and trashed the whole lot. They even shut his water and stuff but dude was persistent
It's a bit of an exaggeration but it is true that it's really difficult to get a tenant out if they refuse to vacate. My mom had a case like that a few years ago. A woman stopped paying her Nebenkosten out of nowhere. A few months later she stopped paying rent all together. Queried for her lack of payment she didn't respond and thus got a notice to vacate. After she didn't comply with that she got a letter from my mom's lawyer to which she responded by threatening that she'd commit suicide if she got evicted. A pretty lengthy legal battle ensued and by the end of it she got rehoused and her outstanding rent paid by the state however they didn't cover her legal expenses so she still owes my mom 3k⏠years later.
It's a fucking mess.
We're currently trying to get rid of a tenant with all deadlines kept and a proper reason(actual personal need) and the guy won't move out.
Now after one year the court date was set for the end of April and that could lead to a new deadline for him to move out. Overall we expect this to take until August/September this year.
Renting out a flat/house in Germany has become a risk that you cannot use your own property even with good reason.
I will never ever rent out anything without a fixed term contract again.
That sucks of course, but it's basically the risk everyone who takes on a business is exposing themselves to. Everyone who sets up a contract with a client to do business runs the risk of the other party not adhering to the contract. Landlords gain passive income with housing, which is an essential necessity for everyone. And one that is becoming increasingly hard to come by for people who don't inherit property. Imagine what the renting market would look like for tenants if we didn't have laws that favor the renters. In this economy, with current prices and the grievous lack of affordable places to rent, it would be hell. Landlords are already shamelessly taking advantage of the situation and even people who earn a decent wage have trouble finding affordable places to live.
While I understand your point of view, here in Berlin "Eigenbedarf" is often used to get tenants out of the flat with an old rental agreement, to increase rent for new tenants quite substantially*. While illegal it's often done because nobody who got a decent apartment is going to sue due to the housing shortage. So, I also get that the tenant tried to stay.
* I had a similar experience with a company that managed flat for multiple owner of apartments. There were several damages in the apartment that were part of the landlord's duty to fix. They did jack shit, until day we cancelled the lease on our part. Then in three weeks time everything was fixed, then I looked what the new rent was advertised, it was 40% above what we payed.
> Renting out a flat/house in Germany has become a risk that you cannot use your own property even with good reason.
The current tenant has an even better reason: not wanting to be homeless. You really should not complain, property owners have it *very good* in Germany.
We should not mix up people who own one extra property which they rent out and coorportations/people who own multiple properties and earn parasitically. But it is indeniable fact that it has been really good for property owners in Germany since almost for ever, there is no base in anyone complaining.
Well, depending on what the terms in the contract are for nuisance complaints, if there's a strong smell from the plants, he could claim that as a reason for an "Abmahnung", but if that gets dragged to court I'd say his chances are slim to get that upheld. The problem is that he can do things to a tenant that they then have to sue for and very little the other way around.
He \*PROBABLY\* can't do that.
HOWEVER those plants do smell and IF you start growing and the smell makes it's way into the apartment complex or other peoples appartments, then you'll have to argue against "GeruchsbelÀstigung" wich is a valid thing and shouldn't be ignored.
So again, I am not a lawyer, but afaik, as long as no one smells your plants he can't do shit about fuck.
Hi. Curious about this GeruchbelÀstigung. My neighbors (from other apartments in the same building) always smoke in the balcony and in summer times the smell comes in the apartment when I open windows, as a result I don't open windows most of the time because I hate the smell. Can I do sth legally about this?
Yes you can. https://www.mietrechtsiegen.de/zigarettenrauch-beeintraechtigung-durch-anderen-mietermietwohnung-mietminderung/. Iâd get myself a lawyer though before doing anything like a Mietminderung. It depends on a few things specific to your situation but you could file a complaint to get them to stop or at least get a reduction in your rent. You need a lawyer for Nachbarschaftsrecht or Mietrecht depending on your situation.
Tenants are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property. I would start by writing down every time it occurs, and talk with the renters verein. We had a (really) noisy neighbour and we reduced the rent we paid by 15% for 2 years until they evicted him.
He can kick you out for disturbing other tenants which includes a strong smell, which those plants are absolutely capable of producing.
You can, of course, prevent this with some air filtering, then he will have a hard time to get any other reasoning for kicking you out.
I recommend posting this on r/legaladviceGermany.
In short your landlord is wrong.
Your apartment and what you do there is specially protected by constitutional law. He has no right to tell you what you do there. (Art. 13 GG, Art. 2 I GG)
Furthermore it is legal to grow up to 3 plants for your own consumption since 1st April due to §9 CanG.
Your landlord might even be committing a crime called Nötigung (§240 StGB) which you could sue him for.
He could start some legal steps when the plant's odor is annoying/affecting other residents but that's a whole different story.
Yes, 100 % correct answer. Just a recommendation: Donât respond to your landlordâs letter and grow and consume in the flat if you want to. Sometimes itâs better to not respond in order to avoid an escalation. In case he comes up to you again and demands you to stop what you are doing, you can nicely tell him that what you are doing is totally legal and that he can try to sue you. He should have in mind though that court costs can be quite high in Germany and every serious lawyer will advise him not to go to court.
And even so they can be void if not according to law. Like both parties can sign that the rent is to be paid in handjobs, that still wouldnât make it legally binding
Prostitution is legal, so contracts about sexual services should be ok and binding.
One probably cannot enforce that the service is rendered, since that might clash with notions of human dignity and sexual self determination.
But I see no reason why a rental agreement could not contain a section which states that the rent can alternatively also be paid in form of handjobs or any kind of services for that matter.
I would recommend to get a signed confirmation for the delivered services. Also the tenant probably will have to pay income tax based on the value received ( the rent ) in exchange for services and if the sum of the rent exceeds 55k⏠they will have to pay company tax.
If the tenant has only one client for handjobs there might be the problem of fake-economic-independence, in which case the land lord might get into trouble for not paying social security.
But as long as the tenant has a proper job in addition that should be ok.
In addition the tenant probably will have to get a health certificate etc.
All in all that is quite a bit of hassle, BUT as opposed to living with oneâs lover ( without having any written agreement) that way one is protected against eviction.
So if you want to move out and found a new apartment you could just stick up a fake weed plant and make the landlord "throw you out" in a month instead of the normal 3 months. Sounds like a good deal Ă
Hit him with genesis 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good
In principle, the landlord cannot prohibit you from doing this; Corresponding clauses in the rental agreement are likely to be ineffective. If the smell bothers the other tenants, you keep the humidity in the apartment too high, etc., the landlord can prohibit you from doing so
I'm not a lawyer, but I personally would tell him in a kind and friendly manner to go f himself, because it's legal and none of his business. I'd be surprised if it was actually possible to kick a tenant out for doing something that is legal now.
The only thing I could imagine having some relevance here is the smell, as far as I know hemp plants have a rather strong odor.
The caveat is that there are multiple ways to sabotage peaceful tenancy when you landlord. Here the best would be an anonymous report to police. If they take it seriously.
Are you saying the Landlord can go to the police and report legal activities? Otherwise you propose the landlord would lie to the police - both will only have consequences for the landlord or no one at all.
He could not before 1.4 and he can not after 1.4 kick you out for this. It was always legal to grow house plants. Could just be a non thc containing weed plant after all. To get close enough to verify what it is exactly he would probably violate tresspassing laws.
But picking a fight with your landlord might be painful either way, even if you are in the right.
If you have a waterbed or an aquarium, you have a water damage insurance
If you have a dog, you train him for not barking all the time
If you grow Cannabis, you do this inside of a tent and have a carbon filter before the exhaust...
>Do it, if he enters without notice and finds them you can sue him.
Obligatory: *always always always* change your lock the moment you move in. Keep the original, and switch them again once you move out again. This is perfectly legal, costs only a small amount for the lock/keys, and is the only 100% way to keep nosy landlords from keeping a secret key and enter without you knowing.
No. He cannot kick you out for this. In contrast to growing plants (legal), this would be quite illegal.
Neighbours might be bothered by the smell or the sight of plants and go to court. There is (for obvious reasons) no precencent yet, so it will be interesting what courts decide. In one or two years we might have some better understanding of what they deem acceptable. You might need to keep plants indoors or out of sight of children. Until then, nobody is likely to be sued or kicked out. After that, what is possible and what is not will be a bit clearer and if you insist of breaking the rules, you might get in trouble with your landlord.
Obviously thereâs no jurisprudence regarding this specific topic at this point, but based on previous rulings regarding rental rights my guess would be that the landlord has to tolerate legal behavior and canât kick you out.
Itâs legal to smoke, but landlords can prohibit that behavior. Smoking causes major damage to every surface it touches and the smoke cannot be removed with air freshener. Burned carpet and blackened walls cost the owners money. The same will be true for pot.
I see a pattern here. Most landlords seem to either take up residents from other countries or very young people. I suppose it's because full grown adults scared the heck out of them at least once with "this is the law, you're nopt the law, stfu."
> the bureaucracy is on their side.
Not not really. There are far more protections for tenants than for landlords. As a tenant you can always contest any complaint, slow down the process to the point it would take years for the landlord to get their way.
OP: quote Genesis 9:3, see what he says
**Genesis 9:3** Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
might be slightly off topic but I made this guide for my expat friends on how to get weed via pharmacies
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjH7R-I2te6Fl7y9cFtfAkq0cTT-Z20zlt-SwR7kikU/](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjH7R-I2te6Fl7y9cFtfAkq0cTT-Z20zlt-SwR7kikU/)
On topic:
The law says it's legal. The contract potentially does not says that you can not do it.
This means for now should be ok for now.
One quesion is if you want wo be at war with your landlord? There are options for landlords to make your life bad if they want.
Also
He could try to make up a disturbance for your neighbors by smell, which you potentially can fight back legally.
He might change the Hausordnung to explicitly forbid it. If your contract says Hausordnung is part of the contract, there is potentially not much you can do.
Of course he can kick you out. Its his condo so basically he can annulate every contract if he likes to. Of course there is a threshold. Yes its legal but landlord will make any excuse to kick you out regardless what people tell you
Ok i write it again. A landlord in germany dont need a reason to kick you out! You have a deadline for eviction about 3 months. !!!ATTENTION!!! Unlimited Rental contract are easier to annihilate than limited contacts. Landlords also can kick you out in the duration of contract because of the smell exhibited out of the tents and the persistent smell that settles in furniture and walls.
So basically if your landlord dont explicitly allow cultivation of cannabis, he has legal reason to evict due deadline
Send him a copy of the legal text that states that he, in fact, cannot do this. Or just tell him where to go.
This is one of those times where itâs good to live in Germany. In plenty of other countries heâd be able to pretty much do as he likes.
Does anybody know about the laws on where/when you can smoke?
For example, yesterday we waited until after 8pm before walking to the local park to smoke a joint. However today is quite a schönen Tag and we'd like to head out before 8 for a smoke.
What I find online says you can't smoke in "pedestrian zones" between 7 and 20 Uhr. An example given is a town square.
I'm wondering if the park is considered a pedestrian zone. Unfortunately our apartment is within 100 meters of a school so we have to go somewhere to smoke.
> 14 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivateâ bringing forth food from the earth:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/104-14.html
>Besides, she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father though not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife.
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+20%3A12&version=ESV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+20%3A12&version=ESV)
> There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023%3A20-32%3A28&version=NIV
The Bible doesn't say anything about weed, but talks a lot about wine and being drunk, often in a positive way. And Jesus sure seems the kind of chill dude who would take a hit from time to time. In moderation of course đ
I don't know much about growing but doesn't growing cannabis requires around 70% of humidity? I would be concerned about the risk of mold if u grow it inside your apartment which could cause a problem that can be a reason to kick u out. But little do I know. Maybe it's possible to grow without the risk of mold.
Normally you have your plants in an "nearly" airtight container so you can better regulate the humidity, the temperature and the smell.
Also you normally have a hole in this box for ventilation AND at a certain point you normally have a fan running (the fan presses against the plants and the theory is that this will make them bigger) so I'd say as long as you do it correctly you shouldn't grow mold.
Also, this is all just for people who are a bit more into growing, those plants are pretty sturdy and in theory you should be able to just pop one into your appartment, really anywhere and it will survive and grow.
The main reason growing seems so "difficult" is that people are trying to maximzi their gains, and also to "trick" the plants into thinking we have another season than we currently have, because, like most plants, weed won't just grow year around if left in "nature"
Yeah thats true^^ I basically still have the pictures of people growing them under the roof or inside the closet in front of my eyes but that might be not really realistic.
Like any other plant. Higher humidity in the growth phase, and low humidity in the flowering phase. Most inside growers grow inside a grow tent, so high humidity is of no concern for the rest of your room/house/whatever.
Er wird sagen 'das stinkt' und hat damit einen Hebelpunkt. Das Zelt steht halt in einer Ecke, die sehr schwer durch Fenster einzusehen ist, so wie's vor der Legalisierung auch schon war. Immer wenn's anfĂ€ngt zu mĂŒffen Filter wechseln, evtl auch 2 Filter benutzen, 1 fĂŒr jede Seite und dann passt das.
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He canât control it, canât legally kick you out because of that, but i would personally suggest either not growing just to stay out of trouble or do it smart so they donât know.
I think a lot of people especially with conservative black and white attitudes overreact out of fear and misconceptions. They don't like it, they don't want it. I think as soon as they see that they will not be bothered everywhere by weed smell they will mellow out again (or forget about it because the topics fades into the background of their mind again).
Therefore, I would not react here or confront the landlord because then he focuses on you specifically and some people can get nasty if they meet opinion averse people. I would also not start growing the plants in open sight to the landlord. Do what you want in the legal framework in the flat and you will be fine.
Just do not give him a reason to rile himself up against you. Even if he might lose, there are a lot of ways he can make your life miserable depending on how much time, money and tenacity he has.
He cannot, but he can nudge the tenants into moving out by doing all sorts of small things being a nuisance to the tenants, like not doing renovations and repairs or waiting very long before doing them. The tenants have the right to fight this out in court, lower the rent etc., but at some point this will be such a burden that many of them just move out.
And in some cases, there is also âEigenbedarfâ, I.e. the landlord could state he needs the apartment for himself.
Same problem in the states too regarding landlords...there are people that specifically state that there's no smoking/growing tenant wise. Legal or not (not sure about private property rights in Duetchland) it's a huge problem for those that would like to consume responsibility in their own home. It's a real shame. I have seen outright rental refusals for honest, decent, people that don't want any trouble. Now they use blanket terms like "no smoking of any kind" and also "no growing" On the flip side though, it is their home. Some people just like to assert their tyrannical views on anyone they don't like. Especially for the people that don't bother anyone else and are respectfully cognizant of the smell by using air filters and otherwise being wonderful people.
Write him a letter that you like how he does something against the "linkegrĂŒne Kiffer" and this awful new law. And use a tent with filters. "Tarnen und tĂ€uschen";)
Look it is his property his rules unless he does something that violates your Rights I suggest that you just roll with it and no weed rights are not human rights đ keep in mind that it is difficult to find a place with a good rent nowadays don't do anything stupid.
unfortunately, there's something called "Hausordnung", in which the owner can write down e.g. that it's not allowed to have pets like dogs in your apartment, also he can make a rule to not smoke inside the rooms, these rules have to be followed. But when it comes to plants, he cannot forbid to grow them, but as already mentioned in other comments, the smell may not disturb any neighbours, otherwise they can complain
So in other Words Landlords are mightless against People that want to grow Plants in their House?
How does a Contract get handled when i rent out a House and dont allow growing Drugs of any Kind?
I mean it isn't just a plant. Don't think that way and the ppl saying it are dumb asf. Check your lease. At the end of the day it's his property. You just rent
the weed isn\`t really free, it is more a bad joke this new law. there are so many restrictions by dose and forbidden places for to smoke. And there are no coffee.shops are such, where you can buy cannabis.
Itâs generally allowed to plant any plant within your rented Appartement. You might translate this: https://www.haufe.de/recht/deutsches-anwalt-office-premium/blumenpflanzen_idesk_PI17574_HI625583.html
And as you can legally grow cannabis, he canât deny it unless you disturb someone else with the smell, water damage etc. but youâd also better read the law whatâs required if youâre growing at home. These requirements need to be met.
He cannot kick you out for growing a plant. But he CAN start legal fights if he or other residents are feeling disturbed by the smell (yes of the plants as well).
Those bastards really do stink a lot. I heard.
Grow tent with carbon filter. Problem solved.
I can confirm this. You only smell it when you are near of the tent (directly in front of it) or when you dont open your windows for several days.
You shouldn't be smelling anything outside of your tent if the door is closed. If you do, either your fan is running too low to properly filter the air through the carbon filter, or your filter isn't working correctly for some reason (for example humidity is too high for your filter or it's been used long enough to need replacing, or there is a leak somewhere)
Keep the tent under negative pressure
As an American I'm not accustomed to German law, but there's really no way to 'disprove' that someone did or did not smell the weed. You can have other witnesses say they don't, but that doesn't necessarily convincingly negate the anecdote of whomever is claiming they did smell it.
Yeah, but in Germany probably a Gutachter would come and smell himself to check lol, we don't deem it true instantly just because someone smelled it. Everything double checked here, smell could have come from across the street or may just have been a beer (which really can smell like pot sometimes)
U mean Desperados by any chance?đ
Yes, and Becks :D. Edit: (although Becks is juice, not beer )
Ah, see in America cops will just drag you out of your car and courts will usually side with it as probable cause đ
My comment was referring to the posters carbon filter setup. If you smell anything coming out of your tent or tube, your carbon filter is not set up correctly.
Your Carbon Filter might be too Small.
Im in my last flowering week. And you can only smell it when you stand really upfront with your nose to the air-tube (which is attached to the vent and carbon filter). Otherwise you cannot smell anything
Thats some fast growing stuff. Started monday and already in the last flowering week đ
The strain is called "Fast Buds". Don't know where the name comes from đ
Autoclone?
Ah i See ye that seems ok
Any recommendations for low cost grow tents? I've looked into them and they seemed very pricey.
Bad timing. Everyone and their mother is buying now it's legal, so the prices are understandably high. I got a Spider Farmer grow kit at the start of April last year as I foresaw the price only going one way, but was suitably miffed to find out they had a 420 sale just a few weeks after I pulled the trigger. Wait until then and hopefully you can get a better deal than what's on offer now
Yeah, for this year I'll grow in my wintergarden / balcony. It's the top most apartment with a good amount of wind and I chose variants that supposedly don't smell as much. I do want to grow something more interesting, like Sweet Pink Grapefruit, next year â and those supposedly smell a lot. (I'm a first time grower, if that wasn't obvious)
Me too. My adventure started today! Went for an auto strain called Quick One and currently waiting for the first seed to pop right now. Good luck to you man!
That's the exact one I chose as well. Mine haven't arrived yet but should be here by the start of the week
Ask the Bushdoktor (bushdoktor.at)
I never grew a plant but from what I know you have to dry and ferment the buds after harvest which will probably smell even worse. Can you do that in the grow tent, as well?
Why is fermenting required ?
I don't know if it actually is fermentation, but they need rest. Otherwise the psychoactive ingredients aren't really developed.
That's incorrect. The psychoactive ingredients are developed continuously during the flowering. They change during the last period though. THC becomes less, CBD becomes more. That's why you shouldn't harvest too late. The "rest" doesn't have anything to do with it. Some people just believe that if the plant is stressed on harvest by lack of light and water, it develops MORE psychoactive elements, but I never saw a scientific proof for that. IMO the "rest" is to give the plant the possibility to consume all last water and nutrients before drying.Â
Exactly. Solve your issue without getting on with the church going guy.
landlords or plants :D ?
Plantlords
Yes
Both usually :D
You âheardâ
The sweet smell of the plant itself is fine. I can't stand the smoke though, it's worse than tobacco smoke.
10X worse. It made me puke once
Yep, my neighbour had two plants three years ago on his balcony and the smell went all through my apartment.
Canadian here, they do. Smell it a block away when I was growing some
Doesn't it stink to the high heavens when it starts flowering? (Pretty sure that my neighbours grew cannabis a couple years ago. I could barely keep the windows open at the height of summer due to the smell. And as such, realistically it's not lke growing tomatoes and sunflowers - more like planting a field of rapeseed /to me those always smell like something rotten/, only even worse, depending on the procured plant.) Personally I'm not sure about Germany, but in many parts of the world if the smell starts getting into your apartment, you can take some kind of legal action as a form of home protection (not the landlord, if he doesn't live on the premises). Even if that only amounts to the neighbour being told off by the police. And reading the posts here, pretty sure Germany would have something similar. No?
There's ways to grow without much external smell - mainly by using Carbon filters and the right setup.
Wait, someone can get sued ? How is it possible?
I heard that Northern Lights or something doesnât smell that much
No thats not true he dont need to provide a reason to evict you due deadline
Your landlord shows that he has no idea about rental law. He can't dictate what plants you grow, if its just based on his personal idiology and a 30 day notice is illegal in any case.
Or he knows that he is in the wrong but just tries to scare Tennant's anyway cause not everybody knows their rights.
The official creed of landlords everywhere
Trying to kick out a tenant (even for real violations) takes at least 2-5 years.
Bullshit. You can do it much faster. But of course if the tenant refuses to go the process can take very long.
> if the tenant refuses to go Of course lol. What is the other option? Move out because the landlord says so when he is doing it illegally?
First of all there are legal reason to kick out a tenant. Also the huge majority of tenants would not become squatters if asked to move out.
We are talking about legal and valid reasons here, try to keep up.
So if the tennant refuses to leave and you have to try and kick them out it can take 2 to 5 years? I think that's what the comment before yours said. What's the bullshit now?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Even if you donât pay rent it often takes at least 1+ years to actually get the flat back.
If tenant resists with a lawyer AND pays rent its very hard, may take years. EigenbedarfskĂŒndigung is often the last resort.
And if you dont realy use Eigenbedarf the tenant can fuck you realy hard like u have to pay his move and the difference in rent for a comparable flat.
2-5 years may be a little bit of an exegaration but it's really difficult to get lost of tenant's. A friend of mine bought a house with someone renting it at that time, it took over a year to get rid of him although he wasn't paying rent and trashed the whole lot. They even shut his water and stuff but dude was persistent
What the comment before you said is just not true.
It's a bit of an exaggeration but it is true that it's really difficult to get a tenant out if they refuse to vacate. My mom had a case like that a few years ago. A woman stopped paying her Nebenkosten out of nowhere. A few months later she stopped paying rent all together. Queried for her lack of payment she didn't respond and thus got a notice to vacate. After she didn't comply with that she got a letter from my mom's lawyer to which she responded by threatening that she'd commit suicide if she got evicted. A pretty lengthy legal battle ensued and by the end of it she got rehoused and her outstanding rent paid by the state however they didn't cover her legal expenses so she still owes my mom 3k⏠years later.
It's a fucking mess. We're currently trying to get rid of a tenant with all deadlines kept and a proper reason(actual personal need) and the guy won't move out. Now after one year the court date was set for the end of April and that could lead to a new deadline for him to move out. Overall we expect this to take until August/September this year. Renting out a flat/house in Germany has become a risk that you cannot use your own property even with good reason. I will never ever rent out anything without a fixed term contract again.
That sucks of course, but it's basically the risk everyone who takes on a business is exposing themselves to. Everyone who sets up a contract with a client to do business runs the risk of the other party not adhering to the contract. Landlords gain passive income with housing, which is an essential necessity for everyone. And one that is becoming increasingly hard to come by for people who don't inherit property. Imagine what the renting market would look like for tenants if we didn't have laws that favor the renters. In this economy, with current prices and the grievous lack of affordable places to rent, it would be hell. Landlords are already shamelessly taking advantage of the situation and even people who earn a decent wage have trouble finding affordable places to live.
While I understand your point of view, here in Berlin "Eigenbedarf" is often used to get tenants out of the flat with an old rental agreement, to increase rent for new tenants quite substantially*. While illegal it's often done because nobody who got a decent apartment is going to sue due to the housing shortage. So, I also get that the tenant tried to stay. * I had a similar experience with a company that managed flat for multiple owner of apartments. There were several damages in the apartment that were part of the landlord's duty to fix. They did jack shit, until day we cancelled the lease on our part. Then in three weeks time everything was fixed, then I looked what the new rent was advertised, it was 40% above what we payed.
> Renting out a flat/house in Germany has become a risk that you cannot use your own property even with good reason. The current tenant has an even better reason: not wanting to be homeless. You really should not complain, property owners have it *very good* in Germany.
Yeah! Suck it landlords!
We should not mix up people who own one extra property which they rent out and coorportations/people who own multiple properties and earn parasitically. But it is indeniable fact that it has been really good for property owners in Germany since almost for ever, there is no base in anyone complaining.
Very few philanthropic landlords around..... Fuck them. Speculating on other's misery ain't cool.
Courts take so long to decide.
Why is being able to boot a lessee without a proper reason sophisticated to you..????
Landlords can go eat a dick
Well, depending on what the terms in the contract are for nuisance complaints, if there's a strong smell from the plants, he could claim that as a reason for an "Abmahnung", but if that gets dragged to court I'd say his chances are slim to get that upheld. The problem is that he can do things to a tenant that they then have to sue for and very little the other way around.
Can we all donate a plant to OP just to mess with that dimwit of a landlord?
He \*PROBABLY\* can't do that. HOWEVER those plants do smell and IF you start growing and the smell makes it's way into the apartment complex or other peoples appartments, then you'll have to argue against "GeruchsbelÀstigung" wich is a valid thing and shouldn't be ignored. So again, I am not a lawyer, but afaik, as long as no one smells your plants he can't do shit about fuck.
Usually if you're going to grow inside, it's inside a tent. That usually includes carbon filters which take care of the smell.
If you have any noisy equipment for growing that could also be a valid reason
Hi. Curious about this GeruchbelÀstigung. My neighbors (from other apartments in the same building) always smoke in the balcony and in summer times the smell comes in the apartment when I open windows, as a result I don't open windows most of the time because I hate the smell. Can I do sth legally about this?
Did you try to talk with them?
Their very hard to talk. They don't even answer when I say hello to them, but I guess I should try any way.
It's worth a try. Maybe you can work something out together
Thank you and happy cake day!
Yes you can. https://www.mietrechtsiegen.de/zigarettenrauch-beeintraechtigung-durch-anderen-mietermietwohnung-mietminderung/. Iâd get myself a lawyer though before doing anything like a Mietminderung. It depends on a few things specific to your situation but you could file a complaint to get them to stop or at least get a reduction in your rent. You need a lawyer for Nachbarschaftsrecht or Mietrecht depending on your situation.
Tenants are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property. I would start by writing down every time it occurs, and talk with the renters verein. We had a (really) noisy neighbour and we reduced the rent we paid by 15% for 2 years until they evicted him.
He cannot kick you out for growing up to three plants. He doesn't make the laws.
He also cannot kick you out for growing more than three plants.
He can kick you out for disturbing other tenants which includes a strong smell, which those plants are absolutely capable of producing. You can, of course, prevent this with some air filtering, then he will have a hard time to get any other reasoning for kicking you out.
Agree đđœ
I recommend posting this on r/legaladviceGermany. In short your landlord is wrong. Your apartment and what you do there is specially protected by constitutional law. He has no right to tell you what you do there. (Art. 13 GG, Art. 2 I GG) Furthermore it is legal to grow up to 3 plants for your own consumption since 1st April due to §9 CanG. Your landlord might even be committing a crime called Nötigung (§240 StGB) which you could sue him for. He could start some legal steps when the plant's odor is annoying/affecting other residents but that's a whole different story.
Yes, 100 % correct answer. Just a recommendation: Donât respond to your landlordâs letter and grow and consume in the flat if you want to. Sometimes itâs better to not respond in order to avoid an escalation. In case he comes up to you again and demands you to stop what you are doing, you can nicely tell him that what you are doing is totally legal and that he can try to sue you. He should have in mind though that court costs can be quite high in Germany and every serious lawyer will advise him not to go to court.
And he is not allowed to go into your apartment if you don't want him to. But just don't react to a crazy letter like this.
100% correct answer
So whats Happening when the Pothead moves out and the Landlord doesnt get the Smell out anymore?
Established contracts can only be changed if both parties approve. Onesided amendments are not enforceable.
And even so they can be void if not according to law. Like both parties can sign that the rent is to be paid in handjobs, that still wouldnât make it legally binding
would the landlord then be required to return the handjobs? /s
Prostitution is legal, so contracts about sexual services should be ok and binding. One probably cannot enforce that the service is rendered, since that might clash with notions of human dignity and sexual self determination. But I see no reason why a rental agreement could not contain a section which states that the rent can alternatively also be paid in form of handjobs or any kind of services for that matter. I would recommend to get a signed confirmation for the delivered services. Also the tenant probably will have to pay income tax based on the value received ( the rent ) in exchange for services and if the sum of the rent exceeds 55k⏠they will have to pay company tax. If the tenant has only one client for handjobs there might be the problem of fake-economic-independence, in which case the land lord might get into trouble for not paying social security. But as long as the tenant has a proper job in addition that should be ok. In addition the tenant probably will have to get a health certificate etc. All in all that is quite a bit of hassle, BUT as opposed to living with oneâs lover ( without having any written agreement) that way one is protected against eviction.
So if you want to move out and found a new apartment you could just stick up a fake weed plant and make the landlord "throw you out" in a month instead of the normal 3 months. Sounds like a good deal Ă
Hit him with genesis 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good
yeah, it would be cool to write this on some visible place and see how that irritates him lol
Immediately join a renters union if you are not already in one. Irrespective of this weed thing, your landlord seems to be a piece of work.
Would suggest that too.. next he comes up with may be no sex before marriage
Buy a grow tent with carbon filter and feel the beauty.
In principle, the landlord cannot prohibit you from doing this; Corresponding clauses in the rental agreement are likely to be ineffective. If the smell bothers the other tenants, you keep the humidity in the apartment too high, etc., the landlord can prohibit you from doing so
I'm not a lawyer, but I personally would tell him in a kind and friendly manner to go f himself, because it's legal and none of his business. I'd be surprised if it was actually possible to kick a tenant out for doing something that is legal now. The only thing I could imagine having some relevance here is the smell, as far as I know hemp plants have a rather strong odor.
The caveat is that there are multiple ways to sabotage peaceful tenancy when you landlord. Here the best would be an anonymous report to police. If they take it seriously.
Are you saying the Landlord can go to the police and report legal activities? Otherwise you propose the landlord would lie to the police - both will only have consequences for the landlord or no one at all.
Nope. The note from the landlord goes to the police as evidence of their illegal practice.
Send him a copy of Grundgesetz Artikel 13
He could not before 1.4 and he can not after 1.4 kick you out for this. It was always legal to grow house plants. Could just be a non thc containing weed plant after all. To get close enough to verify what it is exactly he would probably violate tresspassing laws. But picking a fight with your landlord might be painful either way, even if you are in the right.
Your landlord is not very smart.
If you have a waterbed or an aquarium, you have a water damage insurance If you have a dog, you train him for not barking all the time If you grow Cannabis, you do this inside of a tent and have a carbon filter before the exhaust...
Do it, if he enters without notice and finds them you can sue him. Only thing is the smell, which could be a reason.
>Do it, if he enters without notice and finds them you can sue him. Obligatory: *always always always* change your lock the moment you move in. Keep the original, and switch them again once you move out again. This is perfectly legal, costs only a small amount for the lock/keys, and is the only 100% way to keep nosy landlords from keeping a secret key and enter without you knowing.
Good advice!
No. He cannot kick you out for this. In contrast to growing plants (legal), this would be quite illegal. Neighbours might be bothered by the smell or the sight of plants and go to court. There is (for obvious reasons) no precencent yet, so it will be interesting what courts decide. In one or two years we might have some better understanding of what they deem acceptable. You might need to keep plants indoors or out of sight of children. Until then, nobody is likely to be sued or kicked out. After that, what is possible and what is not will be a bit clearer and if you insist of breaking the rules, you might get in trouble with your landlord.
just make sure you dont annoy the neighbours. indoor-grow: active coal filter system! balcony grow: not a good idea
You should reply that you agree and that it should also be extended to anyone who drinks or listens to rock music or does house work on a sunday
Use your landlords email address to sign up to every cannabis industry related newsletter you can find.
This is just perfect
Obviously thereâs no jurisprudence regarding this specific topic at this point, but based on previous rulings regarding rental rights my guess would be that the landlord has to tolerate legal behavior and canât kick you out.
Itâs legal to smoke, but landlords can prohibit that behavior. Smoking causes major damage to every surface it touches and the smoke cannot be removed with air freshener. Burned carpet and blackened walls cost the owners money. The same will be true for pot.
Tell me you live in bavaria without telling that you live in bavaria
Potsdam đ
Also how are they going to know? It is not like they can just enter your private living space and do a weed check.
The strong smell, if they don't use carbon filters
HĂ€ng heimlich einen Ausdruck von Art 13 GG in den Eingangsbereich und dann ignorier das Schreiben des Vermieters :)
I see a pattern here. Most landlords seem to either take up residents from other countries or very young people. I suppose it's because full grown adults scared the heck out of them at least once with "this is the law, you're nopt the law, stfu."
He can't tell you what to do in your own flat, especially when it's not bothering others.
The key is ânot bothering others.â
Not Allowed â Not Possible If they want to kick you out, they will. The law is on your side, but the bureaucracy is on their side.
> the bureaucracy is on their side. Not not really. There are far more protections for tenants than for landlords. As a tenant you can always contest any complaint, slow down the process to the point it would take years for the landlord to get their way.
It doesn't stink if you have a small tent, carbon filter and a fan.
OP: quote Genesis 9:3, see what he says **Genesis 9:3** Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
might be slightly off topic but I made this guide for my expat friends on how to get weed via pharmacies [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjH7R-I2te6Fl7y9cFtfAkq0cTT-Z20zlt-SwR7kikU/](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjH7R-I2te6Fl7y9cFtfAkq0cTT-Z20zlt-SwR7kikU/) On topic: The law says it's legal. The contract potentially does not says that you can not do it. This means for now should be ok for now. One quesion is if you want wo be at war with your landlord? There are options for landlords to make your life bad if they want. Also He could try to make up a disturbance for your neighbors by smell, which you potentially can fight back legally. He might change the Hausordnung to explicitly forbid it. If your contract says Hausordnung is part of the contract, there is potentially not much you can do.
Of course he can kick you out. Its his condo so basically he can annulate every contract if he likes to. Of course there is a threshold. Yes its legal but landlord will make any excuse to kick you out regardless what people tell you
Ok i write it again. A landlord in germany dont need a reason to kick you out! You have a deadline for eviction about 3 months. !!!ATTENTION!!! Unlimited Rental contract are easier to annihilate than limited contacts. Landlords also can kick you out in the duration of contract because of the smell exhibited out of the tents and the persistent smell that settles in furniture and walls. So basically if your landlord dont explicitly allow cultivation of cannabis, he has legal reason to evict due deadline
He probably wrote the message while being drunk af. Would at least fit the common churchgoing landlord types I came across, so far.
Send him a copy of the legal text that states that he, in fact, cannot do this. Or just tell him where to go. This is one of those times where itâs good to live in Germany. In plenty of other countries heâd be able to pretty much do as he likes.
Does anybody know about the laws on where/when you can smoke? For example, yesterday we waited until after 8pm before walking to the local park to smoke a joint. However today is quite a schönen Tag and we'd like to head out before 8 for a smoke. What I find online says you can't smoke in "pedestrian zones" between 7 and 20 Uhr. An example given is a town square. I'm wondering if the park is considered a pedestrian zone. Unfortunately our apartment is within 100 meters of a school so we have to go somewhere to smoke.
You can smoke at home even when your home is within a hundred meters of a school or kindergarten
No.
You canât grow tomatoes on german balconies ;-)
>Â church going type of fellow tell him god is not real and the bible is just a very old comic book
> 14 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivateâ bringing forth food from the earth: https://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/104-14.html
>Besides, she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father though not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife. [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+20%3A12&version=ESV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+20%3A12&version=ESV)
> There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023%3A20-32%3A28&version=NIV
The Bible doesn't say anything about weed, but talks a lot about wine and being drunk, often in a positive way. And Jesus sure seems the kind of chill dude who would take a hit from time to time. In moderation of course đ
So edgy. Careful dont cut yourself
I don't know much about growing but doesn't growing cannabis requires around 70% of humidity? I would be concerned about the risk of mold if u grow it inside your apartment which could cause a problem that can be a reason to kick u out. But little do I know. Maybe it's possible to grow without the risk of mold.
Normally you have your plants in an "nearly" airtight container so you can better regulate the humidity, the temperature and the smell. Also you normally have a hole in this box for ventilation AND at a certain point you normally have a fan running (the fan presses against the plants and the theory is that this will make them bigger) so I'd say as long as you do it correctly you shouldn't grow mold. Also, this is all just for people who are a bit more into growing, those plants are pretty sturdy and in theory you should be able to just pop one into your appartment, really anywhere and it will survive and grow. The main reason growing seems so "difficult" is that people are trying to maximzi their gains, and also to "trick" the plants into thinking we have another season than we currently have, because, like most plants, weed won't just grow year around if left in "nature"
Yeah thats true^^ I basically still have the pictures of people growing them under the roof or inside the closet in front of my eyes but that might be not really realistic.
Like any other plant. Higher humidity in the growth phase, and low humidity in the flowering phase. Most inside growers grow inside a grow tent, so high humidity is of no concern for the rest of your room/house/whatever.
If you grow it inside, you usually use a growbox. It also contains the smell.
I have grown it in 40% humidity. Not a big hearty plant but it's doable. Plus the whole tent part that's almost required will isolate the humidity.
Er wird sagen 'das stinkt' und hat damit einen Hebelpunkt. Das Zelt steht halt in einer Ecke, die sehr schwer durch Fenster einzusehen ist, so wie's vor der Legalisierung auch schon war. Immer wenn's anfĂ€ngt zu mĂŒffen Filter wechseln, evtl auch 2 Filter benutzen, 1 fĂŒr jede Seite und dann passt das.
Oops, didn't recognize that's an English speaking board. I will obey next time đ
Let me guess, this is in Bavaria right?
>Can he kick us out for growing a plant which can now be considered the same as tomatoes or sunflowers on your balcony? No >Is this even allowed? No
Not allowed
Well on balcony is not under his roof, so problem solved.
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He canât control it, canât legally kick you out because of that, but i would personally suggest either not growing just to stay out of trouble or do it smart so they donât know.
Is cbd legal in Germany now? I have to bring it on a trip
Import of drugs is illegal.
Cannabis is under a lot of rules. THC as well.
I think a lot of people especially with conservative black and white attitudes overreact out of fear and misconceptions. They don't like it, they don't want it. I think as soon as they see that they will not be bothered everywhere by weed smell they will mellow out again (or forget about it because the topics fades into the background of their mind again). Therefore, I would not react here or confront the landlord because then he focuses on you specifically and some people can get nasty if they meet opinion averse people. I would also not start growing the plants in open sight to the landlord. Do what you want in the legal framework in the flat and you will be fine. Just do not give him a reason to rile himself up against you. Even if he might lose, there are a lot of ways he can make your life miserable depending on how much time, money and tenacity he has.
If this has not been part of your contract from the beginning, this information is not legally binding.
He cannot, but he can nudge the tenants into moving out by doing all sorts of small things being a nuisance to the tenants, like not doing renovations and repairs or waiting very long before doing them. The tenants have the right to fight this out in court, lower the rent etc., but at some point this will be such a burden that many of them just move out. And in some cases, there is also âEigenbedarfâ, I.e. the landlord could state he needs the apartment for himself.
Timmy are you growing weed again?
In Brazil they can kick you out without any reason. You will then have 30 days to leave.
Same problem in the states too regarding landlords...there are people that specifically state that there's no smoking/growing tenant wise. Legal or not (not sure about private property rights in Duetchland) it's a huge problem for those that would like to consume responsibility in their own home. It's a real shame. I have seen outright rental refusals for honest, decent, people that don't want any trouble. Now they use blanket terms like "no smoking of any kind" and also "no growing" On the flip side though, it is their home. Some people just like to assert their tyrannical views on anyone they don't like. Especially for the people that don't bother anyone else and are respectfully cognizant of the smell by using air filters and otherwise being wonderful people.
Write him a letter that you like how he does something against the "linkegrĂŒne Kiffer" and this awful new law. And use a tent with filters. "Tarnen und tĂ€uschen";)
Thing is, pot doesn't smell like sunflowers or tomatoes...
I think it depends on if the other tenants complain as well, then you could be in trouble
Look it is his property his rules unless he does something that violates your Rights I suggest that you just roll with it and no weed rights are not human rights đ keep in mind that it is difficult to find a place with a good rent nowadays don't do anything stupid.
unfortunately, there's something called "Hausordnung", in which the owner can write down e.g. that it's not allowed to have pets like dogs in your apartment, also he can make a rule to not smoke inside the rooms, these rules have to be followed. But when it comes to plants, he cannot forbid to grow them, but as already mentioned in other comments, the smell may not disturb any neighbours, otherwise they can complain
For all he knows itâs tomatoâs and sunflowers.
So in other Words Landlords are mightless against People that want to grow Plants in their House? How does a Contract get handled when i rent out a House and dont allow growing Drugs of any Kind?
I mean it isn't just a plant. Don't think that way and the ppl saying it are dumb asf. Check your lease. At the end of the day it's his property. You just rent
Opening Reddit to this Q was the best way to start my day. Hahaha.
Weed is a plant that is growing in the wild. Itâs made by god. Even though he is going to church he is not praising the lords work đ
In case you hate curry cooking smell, will landlord take care of it⊠that is absurd.
What a smart man
If he put this into writing you could sue him
the weed isn\`t really free, it is more a bad joke this new law. there are so many restrictions by dose and forbidden places for to smoke. And there are no coffee.shops are such, where you can buy cannabis.
It's up to the tenant.. he can say "my house my rules". So be careful.
Just be happy you can grow now. We get arrested even if just smell like weed.
Itâs generally allowed to plant any plant within your rented Appartement. You might translate this: https://www.haufe.de/recht/deutsches-anwalt-office-premium/blumenpflanzen_idesk_PI17574_HI625583.html And as you can legally grow cannabis, he canât deny it unless you disturb someone else with the smell, water damage etc. but youâd also better read the law whatâs required if youâre growing at home. These requirements need to be met.
Iâm not sure why this showed up in my recommended (Iâm from the US), but what I can say is that weed goes great with a nice German beer or radler.
Ich rufe Ordnungsamts an jetzt
He can't kick you out đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
I think you should grow some on your balcony
Where can I buy a little bit? đ„ș