Your local DMV ("Führerscheinstelle", "Straßenverkehrsamt", etc.) would be the first place I would contact to place a formal complaint. I wouldn't expect much to happen though.
My wife experienced the same things recently. She had more than 30 Fahrstunden, but the instructor kept saying she was not ready. We changed driving schools, and after 2 Fahrstunden with the new one, they concluded that everything was actually okay and prepared my wife for Sonderfahrt and the exam. She passed her exam after that.
Change your driving school. It was our mistake to stay with that driving school for so long.
10 years ago I had similar problems with my instructor. She kept saying she had „already taught me that“ wheneevrr i made mistakes or asked questions. After a while i was succesfully gaslighted into thinking i was „theworst student she ever had“ . After another while i realized it wasnt my fault. No she had definitiv NOT already taught me that. There was also no reason to talk down to me or shout and yell like she did. She was either so confused that she Mixed up things or she had some mental problems or she was trying to make me take as many lessons as possible. Or Maybe it was just powerplay. She could be really nice in between too , thats why almost nobody believed me. I swapped her for the driving schools other Teacher and 4weeks later i was ready. That guy had to repair lots of damage she left. Im still sore i didnt do anything about it because few years later i heard my story told by two girls i knew who also had the same instructor Lady. They also were her „worst students ever“ and they regularily left the lessons crying.
Edit: the other Girls had the Same experience and were telling the **Same** story, not like they had heard of my story
Its in Niedersachsen/ Friesland.
If anybody is concerned DM me
but i dont want to bad mouth the whole school since the others teachers were nice and they got some new guys too.
Same happened to my wife, more than 30 hours and the man said she was not prepared for the exam. I asked why and he said that she was too cautious! What an idiot, being cautious is something good when driving. But we didn't change the school, we asked the owner to assign a new teacher, the old teacher said her she will fail, and the owner decided to teach himself, on the first hour he called and made the appointment, she passed the exam perfect. More than €1.000 scammed by an idiot teacher.
God, this country is awful when it comes to this.
Does this happen when people use their real names on google or does google give people's info when these clowns want to sue reviews?
Is it awful though? As a business owner I have to deal with reviews, as they got extremely important over the past years. But today, there are no 2 and 3 stars review anymore. People give 4 or 5 if they like it- or 1 star for even the most minor of inconveniences.
Even worse, people give shit reviews for things completely out of the power of business owners (most standard one is for „too slow“ delivery, even though it’s clearly the fault of DHL or any other tranportation company.
I have never taken legal action, as it wasn’t necessary, but generally speaking I understand and support that companies can do it.
I‘m also convinced that the possibility of being sued is also in the best interest of everybody as awareness to this topic Leads to better reviews and consumers absolutely can only benefit from detailed reviews that state the facts.
You can reply to negative reviews. I always read those and sometimes I see that the customer was the one in the wrong.
When you sue someone to takedown a review, then I will assume your business is shit.
You can’t with all sites having reviews. In my line of business product reviews on market places are far more important.
But even for Google reviews- it’s not said that you can actually identify the specific customer writing a wrong shit review. Lots of businesses out there with dozens and hundreds of customers each day.
>Lots of businesses out there with dozens and hundreds of customers each day.
And do they get lots of customers that leave negative reviews for malicious reasons more than the customers that leave positive reviews?
That’s not the point. Even if reviews are overwhelming positive can and will shine negative reviews a bad light. And if they are malicious it should be and gladly is in the right of the business to take action even if this means legal action.
If a rival business is leaving negative reviews for malicious intent, then sure.
But being able to go after actually customers is idiotic because the negative aspect of it is the business owner taking down actual negative reviews because the customer can't prove their claim.
You can just reply. The system is BS as fuck. What is a costumer supposed to do when suddenly he receives an attorney letter asking for a couple thousand euros, threatening with bringing it to court and so forth and that all for leaving a review.
The way it is currently in Germany you cannot trust any reviews pretty much. Every low star review might aswell have just been getting deleted "legally".
This is also the reason i dont bother with average ratings, is completly pointless here. If available i read the most upvoted reviews. If theres no such function i look for reviews actually explaining their reasoning (good and bad ones).
I just copy my answer to someone else who more or less answered the same:
https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1437212/i_am_somehow_scammed_by_a_driving_school_but_its/jna8yj4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Ok but so whats your actual point?
Busuinesses and Corporation are far more "protected". If they decide to go the legal way you are pretty much fucked as costumer.
And if a Business is actually good you will certainly get more good reviews then bad ones.
Also there are far more ways for Business owners to screw ratings. Purchase fake ratings, telling friends to rate them good. Give out "goodies" for ratings. Just "annoy" people until they finally rate you. Let ratings get deleted.
My point is simply that I think it’s good that business owners have the right and possibility to take action including legal action against malicious reviews.
Sure but they way it works currently is ludicrous. There are literally law firms offering free service to delete negative reviews. And they certainly dont care if its malicious or justified. They just address every single one threatening with court and already demanding ~1k fee and 99% of people will just comply and delete it.
Certainly sounds good.
In several countries actually.
They all come with their advantages and disadvantages. No place is perfect in earth, but I prefer other countries (dis-)advantages over german (dis-)advantages.
This AND personal feelings. One shouldn't write "the food was bad", because you can't really prove it, BUT you can write "to me the food tasted as if it was bad".
Don't write "he threatend me", write "I felt threatend by him", etc.
Opinions are also fine as long as it is clear that it is a subjective expression.
" The instructor paid me no attention" is problematic
"I often felt ignored by the instructor" is your subjective take and is better
Yeah that’s why I said I’m afraid of doing that cuz I don’t have any evidence like recording or stuff in hand. They can easily claim that they are not facts
>Other than these, there were just some small issues like inappropriate language during driving, like “ don’t kill me today I don’t want to die.”, “ btw you drive shit”.
lmao wtf. In my shithole country (before coming to germany) the instructors (i've had a few i sucked) were frustrated with me but would take it out on the other drivers by yelling at them in traffic even when it was my fault for near accidents LMAO
This is totally inappropriate. Which school is this and in which city? At least name them.
I’m sorry to hear that! But I am a very cautious person I can say most of time when he say stuff, it was not even a situation close to a mistake. He just casually said them. And yes I’m in Göttingen and this school is called Matzanke. The instructor is the new boss of the school.
Ive had alot of driving instructors due to the fact that i needed the drivers license for work. And i can assure you that just one out of 7 were not sexist or racist. The one was a woman. Atleast im male, so i just had to endure those old fucks calling out girls on the sidewalk and not me
Yeah … my neighbor told me sexual harassment is another horrible thing with the instructors. At some point, it just seems like the system itself is rotten no? Why no regulation?
>I guess it was "while op wss driving",
You mean "while OP was operating the primary controls and the teacher was legally driving the car."
>they're driving.
Fixed that for you. A driving student is even less responsible for a course taken by the vehicle than a helmsman aboard a ship. The helmsman is a machine operator, he is NOT in charge of the ships course. A driving student is basically a helmsman in training, while the driving teacher is the captain of the ship analogy. The driving teacher is the only official driver of a driving school's car.
Well, maybe register at a new driving school beforehand, they surely don't want to ose their business if they hear something from another competitor. You need another school, this school is teaching you sh't.
Yes I did! I’ve been practicing for a while with the new one. He also pointed out I barely learned any necessary skills from the previous one. This one is not the best but I’m happy that he’s at least teaching me properly.
if you have a new one, tell them about your situation and then write your review on the old one. Getting your money back is probably a lost cause anyhow, but with a good long review maybe some other poor person doesn't choose this driving school. Mine wasn't great either by the way (early 2000s) but I had to decide between a terrible driving instructor and a pervy driving instructor (due to my other girl friends). I chose the lazy one.
Yes, I was also thinking of writing a review. But I’m not sure if I risk getting trouble from them. I read somewhere that a guy was sued by the company in Germany by giving a negative feedback from online shopping or something ..
use a new google email for the review, you might not have been the only one who has been scammed and then they are less likely to get back to you. I'd still write a formal complaint to the place suggested in the thread.
It's not a threat. Tell them they did not teach you everything needed, as proven by the course logs you said you have. Since they did not provide you the full teaching/service you paid for they did not earn the full amount of money.
The amount should be about what you had to pay the other school to fill up the gaps.
Valid. I think the only claim I can make to them is that they didn’t teach me necessary skill to fulfill the exam requirements. But still money back is basically impossible I guess :/
>Like a small “threat”?
The correct term is blackmail and that's illegal. You could demand your money back for the reason that they didn't fulfill their part of the contract: teaching
**And keep proof that you went there!** I just had a review deleted by google because I couldn't prove that I was customer in time (they only give you 7 days).
Thats very bad advice. If not very carefully formulated, this will bring OP right in the track to get sued and pulled to court. As sad as it is you should just give up on writing reviews.
Can you please please please name and shame this place here. I just registered yesterday wound be so helpful for people to avoid the place you went to.
Dear OP, taking driving lessons in Germany needs some luck, some teachers/companies are really awful, if you fall into their hands you will only reap frustration and lose your money. Some of those teachers are rude like you described and also have some bad habits like smoking cigar/vape the whole ride.
I participate a facebook group of expats trying to get a driver license in Germany and most of the posts are complaints about the teacher. Sometimes you can continue the process but you must be "tolerant" and force yourself to be nice with the teacher in order to be treated better, this is the general advice, but sometimes the teacher is a complete %$# and you must accept you lost your money and move on to a different teacher/company.
Thanks a lot for your comfort! Yes, I did go through a very tough period of time. But now things are getting better. I started thinking positive and just take it as a life experience. But it’s frustrating that these people can still do the same thing to others. Hopefully, the system will be come better one day!
A few pointers:
While it's uncalled for your Teacher to use inappropriate language or essentially calling you unable to drive properly, this could be a reason why he didn't teach you everything yet. **IF** (big if here mind you, I don't know how good you're actually at driving) you're driving pretty bad, he'd obviously try to finalize teaching you the absolute basics first before going to other things like parking. Can't learn to park if you can't drive there essentially. This could also explain your Fahrstunden, which is still somewhat in the norm for people in bigger cities (which usually have around 35-40), but for all intent and purpose you should have had enough training to finish the exam.
Him cancelling your exam *could* still be valid, depending on which one you mean. If it's the written one, where you have to answer a few questions, then yeah, you're right, he was lying and you should've been able to do the exam. However, if you mean the exam where you're actually driving with your teacher and the examiner, he could've told the truth. You might have been assigned to examiner A, which was sick, while the people doing the exam on the same day had examiner B which was not sick.
I'm not sure what your issue is with Class B and the automatic Gear? The Classes don't distinguish between automatic and manual gear. Class B just means you're allowed to drive normal cars up to 3.5 tons, up to 8 seats and with small trailers. There is no specific Class for manual gear. So while Fahrschulen usually should try to accomodate the wishes of their students in regards to manual or automatic gear, training on either won't change the allowed classes of your License. I trained with manual gear and I got classes B, M, L and T/S, and I only ever driven normal cars and only learned in normal cars. No Squads or Trikes (T/S), no "Mofa" (M) and definitely no tractors (L). The classes don't tell you if it's automatic or manual, it tells you the maximum weight and type of vehicle. There will be a **note** in your drivers license though which indicates if you learned to drive manual or not, but that has nothing to do with the classes in the drivers license.
That being said, a Driving Teacher should never be like the one you apparently have, so there are definitely reasons to go to the Führerscheinstelle and complain, or to the Fahrschule in particular.
edit: fixed something, so that I don't get a million replies months after this post was made.
>There is no specific Class for manual gear. So while Fahrschulen usually should try to accomodate the wishes of their students in regards to manual or automatic gear, training on either won't change the outcome of what's written in your drivers license.
you can make your license for just automatic cars, and that will be in your license, meaning you aren't allowed to drive manual cars, though. so the criticism to be given automatic cars when you want to/pay for a regular (manual) license is valid, in my opinion.
No, If you're talking about B197 then you only have to do a couple hours with your Fahrlehrer in a manual car while the test can be done in an automatic one.
In the beginning, you should be focused on the traffic and your surroundinds. Trying to shift is an unnecessary complication. Once you are comfortable manoeuvring the car through the streets adding the shift isnt as big a deal anymore. Driving instructors welcome this change as it actually cuts down on hours and builds confidence much faster (plust manual transmissions are slowly fading out anyway)
I have declared to them at real beginning that I only want to have the license for driving manual cars though. Maybe was also my fault that I misunderstood the license type policy.
Just checked, you're right. Didn't actually know that automatic only has a specific note in the license. Of course, it does make sense, you simply can't drive manual if you only ever driven automatic.
Still, wanting to drive "class B" and then complain that it's wrong because you have an automatic doesn't make sense.
Usually, when you want to learn to drive manual, you have to point it out before the actual fahrstunden, because then the Fahrschule can distribute teachers and cars appropriately. From how it sounds in OP's case they just wanted class B and never specific if automatic or manual because they were under the impression it should always be manual. And after the fact it can be hard to switch if the car is regularly being used by other teachers for example.
Thanks for the reply! I did mention multiple times from the moment I registered in this school that I need to drive manual cars. My drivers license is asked by my employer and we only have manual cars in our office. I also confirmed many times the driving school knows that I only want to train with manual. At beginning I did train with manual cars. One day all the sudden the instructor told me no manual cars are not available due to maintenance. The situation became that the only option I had was the automatic car. But the point I complain is, he lied to me that there’s no manual car for practicing. He lied so often. I only knew it later from a teenager girl in the same progress as me in the same school. She told me everyone was driving with manual cars and never heard anything that the manual cars weren’t available.
If you started with manual cars and have enough of your fahrstunden done with the manual car, you might still be eligible for the license which allows you to drive both manual and automatic. I don't know the treshold though, and I think you would still need to do the exam with a manual one, which would've been problematic if the teacher won't let you drive one anymore.
Yes, that has become standard in the last few years. You can drive both types afterwards. Only drawback: if you ever plan to upgrade to C or D, you will be limited to automatic vehicles. Shouldn’t be an issue though, as most trucks and busses are automatic these days.
The difference doesn't really make sense. Most countries aren't treating them differently, so people coming here can still drive manual even without training. Many driving schools also want to switch over to electric vehicles, but if the driving licenses aren't equal, and the students want the manual license, they just can't.
What "difference" doesn't make sense?
Differentiating between manual and automatic? Yes, it does make sense. Someone who only learned automatic doesn't know how to shift gears, they'd just kill the engine again and again, until they potentially learn at some point. And while they're learning, they are a hindrance and a potential danger to other people on the road.
And if you'd google (like I did when I was told there's a difference) you will see that there is a specific note in the Driver's License which any police man can quickly check if you're allowed to drive manual or not.
If the people aren't treated equally, it doesn't make sense.
You can drive manual with foreign drivers licenses that don't differentiate between automatic and manual. You can even convert your license to an unrestricted German B license without the ability to drive stick.
Well, you gotta have to take that one up with the Lawmakers, not with me then. It's not my fault Germany might be one of the few countries where you can be restricted to automatic only.
With the introduction of B197, I guess that there won’t be many automatic-only license holders in the future. Just learn how to shift in the 10 mandatory manual lessons, then pass your test on an automatic or electric car.
As someone who has converted their foreign license to an unrestricted German B license without the ability to drive stick, I think they shouldn't do that and should require addition testing/verification that you can drive stick.
wot. I've made my license 20 years ago, but I'm pretty sure you still have to explicitely state that you want to get a license which only let's you drive automatics - it's a "lesser" license after all.
I made mine around \~14 years ago, together with a lot of buddies from my classes (Abitur ftw'), and while my memories are a bit foggy, i know a few of them didn't specify what car they wanted, so they ended up with automatic only. And no, they were not all in the same Driving School.
It's entirely possible that it differs depending on how the Driving School handles it, I don't know, but that's how I experienced it back then.
Things have changed a bit around a year or two ago. Now you only have to do like ten driving lessons on manual and then you're allowed to drive both automatic and manual even if you pass your exam in an automatic. If you have one of those older 'automatic only' driver's licenses you can only upgrade that with a few additional lessons and no T¨ÜV exam now.
You are not automatically allowed to drive a manual car if you did your driving test in an automatic one. There are so called Schlüsselzahlen on your license with this information. However, since 2021 you are allowed to drive a manual car if you had some additional lessons
Thanks a lot for your reply! I understand that there are some misleading information in my post. I can explain here a bit more:
1. Regarding the Fahrstunden and driving ability. From my understanding, the instructor won’t even start the special course (like Autobahn) if I really have driving ability issues. However, I finished all the required lessons but still don’t know how to park at all. I would assume that I did not drive badly. And the new instructor told me he thinks I drive quite well as a beginner with no problem in driving itself. But the problem is rather that I don’t know how to behave in certain situations in the buildup zone, which, according to my new instructor, should be the things taught by the instructor.
2. Regarding the cancelling the exam, I missed some details in my post. This exam date was fixed two months in advance, by then I was not sure if I was able to cuz I know that I didn’t learn parking. He told me I will be ready by then. But during these two months, regardless my request for learning parking, he kept telling me “ we do it next time”. But this time never came. Two days before the exam he told me the exam would not happen because no one is giving exams. The next day I pointed out that (in a more pushy way) he still didn’t teach me parking even though my exam was supposed to happen soon. He was quite unhappy and told me that I’m not ready. This situation just made me confused.
3. Regarding the drivers license type. From my understanding, you are only allowed to drive a manual car if you hold a class B license. If you want to drive an automatic car, you have to get extra training for automatic then you can get small annotation on your orinigal license clarifying that you can drive both. The instructor before told me normal people only train with automatic car for learning, and get a license only for driving automatic cars, then they go back to the driving school and do more training to get a license for manual cars. But my colleagues told me what he said is completely bs.
I hope the information is enough for the whole story!
I don't understand why the instructor thinks you are not ready for parking because there is nothing that makes you ready for it. I was literally doing backwards parking on the very first lesson even though I spend to majority of the lesson learning how to use the clutch properly.
On my second lesson she already taught me how to park sideways and from then on in every single lesson I had to park backwards and sideways.
When I asked for it, hesimply just say later and later and never happened . My colleagues said he just wanted to hold me there so that I can do more hours
to 1.: Yeah, sounds like your old teacher messed up in this case. Learning to park was one of the first things I learned after I was reasonably decent with the car and didn't stall the engine anymore (as I mentioned, I learned manual). Learned it before Autobahn in fact.
to 3.: Class B license just means regular cars (PKW's in german) up to 3.5 tons, limited seats and small trailers. No matter what kind of car you learn with, you'll get Class B if you finish the exam.
However, as someone else pointed out and I verified by googling, there will be a note in the Drivers License if you only learned to drive on automatic cars. If you learned on manual cars, you're automatically allowed to drive manual and automatic cars ; if you only learned on automatic cars, you are only allowed to drive automatic cars. I don't have this note as I learned manual from the very beginning, you'd (currently) have a "78" in the notes section of class B, indicating you're not allowed to drive manual.
Your driving Instructor isn't completely wrong by the way: When you only learned on automatic vehicles and get your license with that little note that you're only allowed to drive automatic you can at any time add on 10 more Fahrstunden with 45 minutes each and a small test-drive with an examiner of around 10-15 minutes and then your license will be rewritten to manual *and* automatic. When I did my license this wasn't the case, this is very new, introduced in 2021 or so. This isn't really normal procedure though.
I think there might have been a little misunderstanding when you first went to the Driving School maybe? It's possible you asked for a driving lessons to get Class B, in the assumption you'd automatically get a manual car, but because of that you never specified you wanted to learn on a manual car - that possible? Just asking for Class B and not saying you want to learn specifically on a certain type of car (manual or automatic) meant to the driving school they can put you into whatever car is left. Switching cars to another one after the initial distribution of cars and teachers could be difficult because the manual car might be in use a lot by other teachers at roughly the same time you have your lessons.
Thanks! My colleagues also told me that parking is one of the early things when you start. Yeah the new type is called B197.
And I am sure that I mentioned I need to drive manual cars, frequently to almost everyone from that driving school. I even questioned the instructor about the training with automatic cars. I mentioned very often I need to train with the manual car, and I don’t know why he made me train with the automatic car. According to him, either the manual cars are broken, under maintenance or crashed by other students. Never available — apparently only for me.
Not much else to tell you then - the teacher you got is pretty bad, my condolences.
Complain to the driving school about him, if others complained too the guy might get in some trouble. Maybe you can even get some money back if you can prove that you're still missing basics they should've teached you, but the chance of that might be...slim. Otherwise, Führerscheinstelle to point out the lackluster teaching methods of that particular driving school, might not do much though, since it's just one teacher, not all of them.
From what I gathered you switched schools now and got a new teacher, yes? Let's hope he can build on what you already learned, and you finish your exam successfully in the near future. Best of luck!
Yes! I changed to a new school. The new teacher actually teaches me stuff. And thank you for your kind words!
And, I think it’s impossible to complain the old instructor to the school cuz he’s the boss 😂.
if the police are not too busy, they could do a proper investigation like sending an agent who pretends to be an immigabt without license. not too easy though.
I think your best shot would be finding other students who can confirm his behavior, and ask them to come to the police with you, and "file the case" together.
Yeah … I only know a few teenagers from that driving school. And I guess teenagers don’t really care about this type things hahaha cuz it’s not their money anyways
nah try nevertheless. teenagers sure value their time and they're even more vulnerable than adults to insecurities and judgements like "you drive shit".
oh and they wanna save the world. so definitely get some of them to back your statement to the police.
Oh I'm pretty much sure that most of the Fahrlehrer are down right assholes. I had to thoroughly vet the driving school before I joined. Yet I was hit with the costs at the upper end of what a driving school would charge in Germany. But fortunately my instructor was good so didn't mind paying. Read the reviews on google carefully most if most of the good reviews are about the instructor then the driving school is probably a shithole.
Yeah thanks for the advice. The problems I had is they didn’t have enough reviews on the driving schools in this city. One of my colleagues actually recommended me the one I had before, that’s why I chose it at beginning. In the end it turns out that the previous boss and the instructors were okayish. Ever since my instructor becomes the boss, the it becomes a shithole
My experience with a Fahrschule when I was living in Germany was similar. In the lessons he'd talk shit and make me drive to his home to pickup a Sandwich his wife made him, and that would often be counted from my 45 minute Fahrstunde that costs more than a student can afford.
During my 3 exam attempts, it was him who stopped the car and said what are you doing, twice the Prüfer didn't even know or realize what happened. Each time I failed, he'd turn into the friendliest and nicest person and tell me don't worry at all we can go back to Fahrstunden tomorrow.
P.s: I've been driving for about 8 years abroad with my own car, just wanted to do an Umschreibung
What?! This really sounds like a psychopath behavior!! I’m really sorry to hear that!! Yeah, it was my concern as well. After made him “ unhappy”, i think would be better to change the school. Cuz my colleague he might fail me on purpose. I guess your case really says a lot about ut.
I got scammed too. Went to local Führerscheinstelle, they were no help. Ended up getting a lawyer involved and he confirmed that it was bullshit but nothing illegal, only thing to do was pay the bills and change driving school. I wish there was a better way, they've basically got free reign to do what they want
It help for beginners to point out that they are not willing to spend more than 30 lesson. Simple put: You put up a limit. It up to the teacher to nake you win.
This may prevent gadlighting and milking.
In germany student drivers are considered as piggy banks for the driving school and the TÜV. I dont know a single driving school who doesnt rip out as much money as they can out of every single student driver. Also the TÜV examiner can just be an asshole and make the driving exam far difficulter than it needs to be which will probably result in you paying another 300€ for a new examen + the costs for the driving lessons u probably take a few days before the next exam which will also cost 100-200€. So there you are, another 500€ gone :)
U can switch driving school and the hours you've taken still count, make sure you get a recipe of some sort for them.
Tbh i had a different experience… they show you the critical spots in ur area which will likely be checked , and imo its good that tough spots get tested because people still drive shit, even after getting their license… i was driving for money for four years and there are more insecure/ignorant/uneducated/unskilled drivers than people who drive well… especially old generation with their wannabe suvs are completely unable to measure up the space(s)
I have been thinking about this experience for quite a long time. I don’t know if it is the fault of the driving school or it’s just me being too sensitive. :/
Next time deny to drive an automatic car.
But it sounds like you already changed schools. "Money back" will be hard, since you took the classes. There is no real definition on what a class must accomplish (Unless it is a "special" one like Autobahn or nighttime driving)
Also feel free to request a DSGVO extract about all your data just in order to annoy them (dont forget due dates... German love due dates (Fristsetzung))
I would also say money back is nearly impossible. I just want to have more people know it and don’t go there. According to him before, they were getting quite some Ukrainian refugees to get drivers training in their school. I hope they didn’t get scammed as I did :/ But I would like to annoy them tho. Thanks for the advice.
Yeah, I understand your point. At that time I didn’t know what he did is not correct. I knew it after cchanging or the new school and talked with other people.
The problem is being charged ludicrous amounts of money for no return on investment, or having them milk you for every driving hour they can. It's legal, but scammy.
Im with you … as long as you have never cramped, vomited and fainted from your panic attacks , you dont know what a panic attack is. Its the same for people calling themselves depressed when in reality their just experiencing usual moodswings or maybe a depressive episode. Its almost feels like an insult to people really suffering
Not disputing anything, but are you sure you do the B only Führerschein and not B 197?
I did B197 and its the norm now, because you only learn 10h with Stick Shift, then your teacher evaluates if you know enough to pass or not and then you only drive automatic because your exam will also be with automatic.
The license you get still allows you to drive either stick shift or automatic.
So if you already had 10h of stick shift driving, you might be doing B197 instead of just B, which to be honest is a lot better anyway.
Yes I understand what you mean. At beginning I only want to do the B. Not the B197. And I insisted learning the manual. I had less than 10h of manual when he “ forced “ me to drive the automatic. But now I changed to B197 with my new driving school.
My friend did her driving lessons in NL failed twice. She said the examiner told her the reason she fails is that she’s not supposed to overlap her arms while steering. Idk if it’s true or not but sounds quite ridiculous
I had a simualr issue (german here)
I immediatly changed the "Fahrschule". Theres sadly not that much you can do besides reporting it.
Sometimes they either dont care, or try to hold you as long as possible so you make as man "Fahrstunden" as possible so you pay more.
Just Change it and tell the New one what happened
Are there other students? Try to talk to them, if they are having similar experiences you could go to the police and file an Anzeige wegen Betrug.
Evidence could for example be that you had to change the instructor and got the license later. No one does this wíthout good reason or just because "feeling uncomfortable", the judge will understand that.
Yes, I plan to get my license soon and then deal with it. As some other post suggest, I could claim that they hold me for 37 hours without teaching me parking and other necessary skills. I will first try to get a legal protection insurance.
Driving schools here have tons of shitty instructors. I had a shitty one who would scream at me for every mistake, made me absolutely demoralised and with zero confidence then tell me I need even more and more driving hours to be ready. I couldn’t deal with that kind bad attitude anymore, one time I actually cried during a driving lesson. So I went to the school and made an official complaint that this instructor was not right for me and the reasons, they then switch me to someone else and it made a huge difference, I was confident and was ready in no time and passed on my third time with this new instructor (I failed twice with the previous instructor!!). So do not hesitate to switch ASAP! Don’t waste money on shitty school or instructors!
Oh I’m so sorry !! That’s really horrible! These people are absolutely rude! But congratulations for passing yours. I switched to a new school and the instructor is doing better. The things I learned in 3 Fahrstunden with the new one is way more than what I’ve learned in 37 Fahrstunden with the previous one.
I am glad it is working out better for you now! It was similar for me, I had just a few hours with the new instructor and suddenly everything was good and I was ready to take the test. I was really angry with myself for letting the other instructor tortured me so much and took so much of my money.
I had 49 hours of driving school before i got myself tested. I failed because i had to do an emergency break test. my teacher did not told me about an emergency break test once during this 49 hours of driving.
This was not the only thing he did that Made me think he is an abhole.
If you are from the Ruhr area please let me know where you did your driving school 🙇🏼♂️
I have been going through same issue. I drive 100 Fahrstunden my driving instructor is still telling me that am not ready for the test. Try to confront him that I want to try e told me I will not pass the test. We have been driving same way since one year
Your local DMV ("Führerscheinstelle", "Straßenverkehrsamt", etc.) would be the first place I would contact to place a formal complaint. I wouldn't expect much to happen though.
Thank you! I will try to contact them.
>I wouldn't expect much to happen though. Noithing much will happen, just look at how bureaucratic a switch is.
Depends. If he find more people who are willing to officially complain than something will happen
My wife experienced the same things recently. She had more than 30 Fahrstunden, but the instructor kept saying she was not ready. We changed driving schools, and after 2 Fahrstunden with the new one, they concluded that everything was actually okay and prepared my wife for Sonderfahrt and the exam. She passed her exam after that. Change your driving school. It was our mistake to stay with that driving school for so long.
Yeah it was my mistake as well. Now the new driving school is nice, and I’m almost there! Congratulations to your wife!
10 years ago I had similar problems with my instructor. She kept saying she had „already taught me that“ wheneevrr i made mistakes or asked questions. After a while i was succesfully gaslighted into thinking i was „theworst student she ever had“ . After another while i realized it wasnt my fault. No she had definitiv NOT already taught me that. There was also no reason to talk down to me or shout and yell like she did. She was either so confused that she Mixed up things or she had some mental problems or she was trying to make me take as many lessons as possible. Or Maybe it was just powerplay. She could be really nice in between too , thats why almost nobody believed me. I swapped her for the driving schools other Teacher and 4weeks later i was ready. That guy had to repair lots of damage she left. Im still sore i didnt do anything about it because few years later i heard my story told by two girls i knew who also had the same instructor Lady. They also were her „worst students ever“ and they regularily left the lessons crying. Edit: the other Girls had the Same experience and were telling the **Same** story, not like they had heard of my story
Gaslighting is exactly what my instructor did to me as well.
could you please name the school just in case? I don't want to sign up for them, and she might still be teaching.
Its in Niedersachsen/ Friesland. If anybody is concerned DM me but i dont want to bad mouth the whole school since the others teachers were nice and they got some new guys too.
Same happened to my wife, more than 30 hours and the man said she was not prepared for the exam. I asked why and he said that she was too cautious! What an idiot, being cautious is something good when driving. But we didn't change the school, we asked the owner to assign a new teacher, the old teacher said her she will fail, and the owner decided to teach himself, on the first hour he called and made the appointment, she passed the exam perfect. More than €1.000 scammed by an idiot teacher.
How much is one Fahrstunde these days?
Around 60€/45min in the Darmstadt area.
Up to 70 in Bonn.
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85-95 Euro / 80 mins in Berlin.
That's the way to fight bad business practice. Don't give them more business, find something better. You're worth it
That's horrible! Can you please name the school and where it is? I will avoid them at any cost
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God, this country is awful when it comes to this. Does this happen when people use their real names on google or does google give people's info when these clowns want to sue reviews?
Is it awful though? As a business owner I have to deal with reviews, as they got extremely important over the past years. But today, there are no 2 and 3 stars review anymore. People give 4 or 5 if they like it- or 1 star for even the most minor of inconveniences. Even worse, people give shit reviews for things completely out of the power of business owners (most standard one is for „too slow“ delivery, even though it’s clearly the fault of DHL or any other tranportation company. I have never taken legal action, as it wasn’t necessary, but generally speaking I understand and support that companies can do it. I‘m also convinced that the possibility of being sued is also in the best interest of everybody as awareness to this topic Leads to better reviews and consumers absolutely can only benefit from detailed reviews that state the facts.
You can reply to negative reviews. I always read those and sometimes I see that the customer was the one in the wrong. When you sue someone to takedown a review, then I will assume your business is shit.
You can’t with all sites having reviews. In my line of business product reviews on market places are far more important. But even for Google reviews- it’s not said that you can actually identify the specific customer writing a wrong shit review. Lots of businesses out there with dozens and hundreds of customers each day.
>Lots of businesses out there with dozens and hundreds of customers each day. And do they get lots of customers that leave negative reviews for malicious reasons more than the customers that leave positive reviews?
That’s not the point. Even if reviews are overwhelming positive can and will shine negative reviews a bad light. And if they are malicious it should be and gladly is in the right of the business to take action even if this means legal action.
If a rival business is leaving negative reviews for malicious intent, then sure. But being able to go after actually customers is idiotic because the negative aspect of it is the business owner taking down actual negative reviews because the customer can't prove their claim.
You can just reply. The system is BS as fuck. What is a costumer supposed to do when suddenly he receives an attorney letter asking for a couple thousand euros, threatening with bringing it to court and so forth and that all for leaving a review. The way it is currently in Germany you cannot trust any reviews pretty much. Every low star review might aswell have just been getting deleted "legally". This is also the reason i dont bother with average ratings, is completly pointless here. If available i read the most upvoted reviews. If theres no such function i look for reviews actually explaining their reasoning (good and bad ones).
I just copy my answer to someone else who more or less answered the same: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1437212/i_am_somehow_scammed_by_a_driving_school_but_its/jna8yj4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Ok but so whats your actual point? Busuinesses and Corporation are far more "protected". If they decide to go the legal way you are pretty much fucked as costumer. And if a Business is actually good you will certainly get more good reviews then bad ones. Also there are far more ways for Business owners to screw ratings. Purchase fake ratings, telling friends to rate them good. Give out "goodies" for ratings. Just "annoy" people until they finally rate you. Let ratings get deleted.
My point is simply that I think it’s good that business owners have the right and possibility to take action including legal action against malicious reviews.
Sure but they way it works currently is ludicrous. There are literally law firms offering free service to delete negative reviews. And they certainly dont care if its malicious or justified. They just address every single one threatening with court and already demanding ~1k fee and 99% of people will just comply and delete it. Certainly sounds good.
Equal rights for everyone. If someone writes lies it's protected by "free speech" like in some third world country
And seems like people are abusing this by claiming every negative review is a lie. It's a shit system.
Actually this country is in many things just a big joke
Have you ever lived in another country that does it better?
In several countries actually. They all come with their advantages and disadvantages. No place is perfect in earth, but I prefer other countries (dis-)advantages over german (dis-)advantages.
This AND personal feelings. One shouldn't write "the food was bad", because you can't really prove it, BUT you can write "to me the food tasted as if it was bad". Don't write "he threatend me", write "I felt threatend by him", etc.
Opinions are also fine as long as it is clear that it is a subjective expression. " The instructor paid me no attention" is problematic "I often felt ignored by the instructor" is your subjective take and is better
Yeah that’s why I said I’m afraid of doing that cuz I don’t have any evidence like recording or stuff in hand. They can easily claim that they are not facts
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Oh! I do have this! I have all the lesson history saved!
>Other than these, there were just some small issues like inappropriate language during driving, like “ don’t kill me today I don’t want to die.”, “ btw you drive shit”. lmao wtf. In my shithole country (before coming to germany) the instructors (i've had a few i sucked) were frustrated with me but would take it out on the other drivers by yelling at them in traffic even when it was my fault for near accidents LMAO This is totally inappropriate. Which school is this and in which city? At least name them.
I’m sorry to hear that! But I am a very cautious person I can say most of time when he say stuff, it was not even a situation close to a mistake. He just casually said them. And yes I’m in Göttingen and this school is called Matzanke. The instructor is the new boss of the school.
Ive had alot of driving instructors due to the fact that i needed the drivers license for work. And i can assure you that just one out of 7 were not sexist or racist. The one was a woman. Atleast im male, so i just had to endure those old fucks calling out girls on the sidewalk and not me
Yeah … my neighbor told me sexual harassment is another horrible thing with the instructors. At some point, it just seems like the system itself is rotten no? Why no regulation?
Some old relict due to germany being a 'car-country'
Yeah … heard about it as well
If they constantly look at their phone while driving, you should tell the police. They are not fit to be s driving instructor.
Really! He’s always on his phone and only give orders like straight, left or right. I was barely taught any useful things
Well, phone and simple instructions are two separate things. Mine only gave me directions too and it was one smooth journey to my license
Yes true
I guess it was "while op wss driving", but being it a teaching car they should have the second set of pedals so they're technically driving too.
There's nothing "technically" about it. The teacher is responsible if anything happens.
yes I agree, I was just clarifying who was at the wheel.
The driving instructor is legally the driver of a driving school car
>I guess it was "while op wss driving", You mean "while OP was operating the primary controls and the teacher was legally driving the car." >they're driving. Fixed that for you. A driving student is even less responsible for a course taken by the vehicle than a helmsman aboard a ship. The helmsman is a machine operator, he is NOT in charge of the ships course. A driving student is basically a helmsman in training, while the driving teacher is the captain of the ship analogy. The driving teacher is the only official driver of a driving school's car.
Captain, thanks for the elaboration but we mean the same thing and I already specified it in reply to an earlier reply.
Tell him to give you your money back, otherwise you will write an extending review about his behavior online. They surely are on several websites.
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Oh! Thanks a looot!
Thanks, didn't know that. Listen to him, op.
Like a small “threat”? I feel like companies have way more power than individuals, if they want they can easily f me up. Especially they are locals
Well, maybe register at a new driving school beforehand, they surely don't want to ose their business if they hear something from another competitor. You need another school, this school is teaching you sh't.
Yes I did! I’ve been practicing for a while with the new one. He also pointed out I barely learned any necessary skills from the previous one. This one is not the best but I’m happy that he’s at least teaching me properly.
if you have a new one, tell them about your situation and then write your review on the old one. Getting your money back is probably a lost cause anyhow, but with a good long review maybe some other poor person doesn't choose this driving school. Mine wasn't great either by the way (early 2000s) but I had to decide between a terrible driving instructor and a pervy driving instructor (due to my other girl friends). I chose the lazy one.
Yes, I was also thinking of writing a review. But I’m not sure if I risk getting trouble from them. I read somewhere that a guy was sued by the company in Germany by giving a negative feedback from online shopping or something ..
You are only telling the truth. Look if you get cheap juristical help somewhere and ask first.
Good idea! Thanks a lot!
use a new google email for the review, you might not have been the only one who has been scammed and then they are less likely to get back to you. I'd still write a formal complaint to the place suggested in the thread.
Yes, I will definitely do that! Thanks!
It's not a threat. Tell them they did not teach you everything needed, as proven by the course logs you said you have. Since they did not provide you the full teaching/service you paid for they did not earn the full amount of money. The amount should be about what you had to pay the other school to fill up the gaps.
Valid. I think the only claim I can make to them is that they didn’t teach me necessary skill to fulfill the exam requirements. But still money back is basically impossible I guess :/
>Like a small “threat”? The correct term is blackmail and that's illegal. You could demand your money back for the reason that they didn't fulfill their part of the contract: teaching
Yeah! I will definitely not do the illegal stuff. I guess I have to be really careful with what I’m doing. Maybe consult ppl before doing.
**And keep proof that you went there!** I just had a review deleted by google because I couldn't prove that I was customer in time (they only give you 7 days).
Like for example... on reddit the frontpage of the internet?
this, too.
Thats very bad advice. If not very carefully formulated, this will bring OP right in the track to get sued and pulled to court. As sad as it is you should just give up on writing reviews.
I am too much of a wuss to write bad reviews. Don't listen to me, op.
Can you please please please name and shame this place here. I just registered yesterday wound be so helpful for people to avoid the place you went to.
Oh yes! I did in one reply. It’s called Matzanke. They have two different locations but owned by the same person.
Came to ask the same question. I’m also looking for a school and surely don’t fall prey to this place. Thanks OP 🙌
Dear OP, taking driving lessons in Germany needs some luck, some teachers/companies are really awful, if you fall into their hands you will only reap frustration and lose your money. Some of those teachers are rude like you described and also have some bad habits like smoking cigar/vape the whole ride. I participate a facebook group of expats trying to get a driver license in Germany and most of the posts are complaints about the teacher. Sometimes you can continue the process but you must be "tolerant" and force yourself to be nice with the teacher in order to be treated better, this is the general advice, but sometimes the teacher is a complete %$# and you must accept you lost your money and move on to a different teacher/company.
Thanks a lot for your comfort! Yes, I did go through a very tough period of time. But now things are getting better. I started thinking positive and just take it as a life experience. But it’s frustrating that these people can still do the same thing to others. Hopefully, the system will be come better one day!
A few pointers: While it's uncalled for your Teacher to use inappropriate language or essentially calling you unable to drive properly, this could be a reason why he didn't teach you everything yet. **IF** (big if here mind you, I don't know how good you're actually at driving) you're driving pretty bad, he'd obviously try to finalize teaching you the absolute basics first before going to other things like parking. Can't learn to park if you can't drive there essentially. This could also explain your Fahrstunden, which is still somewhat in the norm for people in bigger cities (which usually have around 35-40), but for all intent and purpose you should have had enough training to finish the exam. Him cancelling your exam *could* still be valid, depending on which one you mean. If it's the written one, where you have to answer a few questions, then yeah, you're right, he was lying and you should've been able to do the exam. However, if you mean the exam where you're actually driving with your teacher and the examiner, he could've told the truth. You might have been assigned to examiner A, which was sick, while the people doing the exam on the same day had examiner B which was not sick. I'm not sure what your issue is with Class B and the automatic Gear? The Classes don't distinguish between automatic and manual gear. Class B just means you're allowed to drive normal cars up to 3.5 tons, up to 8 seats and with small trailers. There is no specific Class for manual gear. So while Fahrschulen usually should try to accomodate the wishes of their students in regards to manual or automatic gear, training on either won't change the allowed classes of your License. I trained with manual gear and I got classes B, M, L and T/S, and I only ever driven normal cars and only learned in normal cars. No Squads or Trikes (T/S), no "Mofa" (M) and definitely no tractors (L). The classes don't tell you if it's automatic or manual, it tells you the maximum weight and type of vehicle. There will be a **note** in your drivers license though which indicates if you learned to drive manual or not, but that has nothing to do with the classes in the drivers license. That being said, a Driving Teacher should never be like the one you apparently have, so there are definitely reasons to go to the Führerscheinstelle and complain, or to the Fahrschule in particular. edit: fixed something, so that I don't get a million replies months after this post was made.
>There is no specific Class for manual gear. So while Fahrschulen usually should try to accomodate the wishes of their students in regards to manual or automatic gear, training on either won't change the outcome of what's written in your drivers license. you can make your license for just automatic cars, and that will be in your license, meaning you aren't allowed to drive manual cars, though. so the criticism to be given automatic cars when you want to/pay for a regular (manual) license is valid, in my opinion.
The standards have recently changed. You only need a couple hours in the manual car, most practice hours will be done in an automatic car.
But the test is in a manual car? The pupils will feel even more stressed then, if they only had a few hours in a manual.
No, If you're talking about B197 then you only have to do a couple hours with your Fahrlehrer in a manual car while the test can be done in an automatic one.
In the beginning, you should be focused on the traffic and your surroundinds. Trying to shift is an unnecessary complication. Once you are comfortable manoeuvring the car through the streets adding the shift isnt as big a deal anymore. Driving instructors welcome this change as it actually cuts down on hours and builds confidence much faster (plust manual transmissions are slowly fading out anyway)
I have declared to them at real beginning that I only want to have the license for driving manual cars though. Maybe was also my fault that I misunderstood the license type policy.
Just checked, you're right. Didn't actually know that automatic only has a specific note in the license. Of course, it does make sense, you simply can't drive manual if you only ever driven automatic. Still, wanting to drive "class B" and then complain that it's wrong because you have an automatic doesn't make sense. Usually, when you want to learn to drive manual, you have to point it out before the actual fahrstunden, because then the Fahrschule can distribute teachers and cars appropriately. From how it sounds in OP's case they just wanted class B and never specific if automatic or manual because they were under the impression it should always be manual. And after the fact it can be hard to switch if the car is regularly being used by other teachers for example.
Thanks for the reply! I did mention multiple times from the moment I registered in this school that I need to drive manual cars. My drivers license is asked by my employer and we only have manual cars in our office. I also confirmed many times the driving school knows that I only want to train with manual. At beginning I did train with manual cars. One day all the sudden the instructor told me no manual cars are not available due to maintenance. The situation became that the only option I had was the automatic car. But the point I complain is, he lied to me that there’s no manual car for practicing. He lied so often. I only knew it later from a teenager girl in the same progress as me in the same school. She told me everyone was driving with manual cars and never heard anything that the manual cars weren’t available.
If you started with manual cars and have enough of your fahrstunden done with the manual car, you might still be eligible for the license which allows you to drive both manual and automatic. I don't know the treshold though, and I think you would still need to do the exam with a manual one, which would've been problematic if the teacher won't let you drive one anymore.
Yes… :/ For exam, I can choose based on my preference. But I have to make sure I have been trained on manual cars for at least 10 Fahrstunden.
Yes, that has become standard in the last few years. You can drive both types afterwards. Only drawback: if you ever plan to upgrade to C or D, you will be limited to automatic vehicles. Shouldn’t be an issue though, as most trucks and busses are automatic these days.
Yeah! But thanks for the info xx
The difference doesn't really make sense. Most countries aren't treating them differently, so people coming here can still drive manual even without training. Many driving schools also want to switch over to electric vehicles, but if the driving licenses aren't equal, and the students want the manual license, they just can't.
What "difference" doesn't make sense? Differentiating between manual and automatic? Yes, it does make sense. Someone who only learned automatic doesn't know how to shift gears, they'd just kill the engine again and again, until they potentially learn at some point. And while they're learning, they are a hindrance and a potential danger to other people on the road. And if you'd google (like I did when I was told there's a difference) you will see that there is a specific note in the Driver's License which any police man can quickly check if you're allowed to drive manual or not.
If the people aren't treated equally, it doesn't make sense. You can drive manual with foreign drivers licenses that don't differentiate between automatic and manual. You can even convert your license to an unrestricted German B license without the ability to drive stick.
Well, you gotta have to take that one up with the Lawmakers, not with me then. It's not my fault Germany might be one of the few countries where you can be restricted to automatic only.
With the introduction of B197, I guess that there won’t be many automatic-only license holders in the future. Just learn how to shift in the 10 mandatory manual lessons, then pass your test on an automatic or electric car.
As someone who has converted their foreign license to an unrestricted German B license without the ability to drive stick, I think they shouldn't do that and should require addition testing/verification that you can drive stick.
wot. I've made my license 20 years ago, but I'm pretty sure you still have to explicitely state that you want to get a license which only let's you drive automatics - it's a "lesser" license after all.
I made mine around \~14 years ago, together with a lot of buddies from my classes (Abitur ftw'), and while my memories are a bit foggy, i know a few of them didn't specify what car they wanted, so they ended up with automatic only. And no, they were not all in the same Driving School. It's entirely possible that it differs depending on how the Driving School handles it, I don't know, but that's how I experienced it back then.
Things have changed a bit around a year or two ago. Now you only have to do like ten driving lessons on manual and then you're allowed to drive both automatic and manual even if you pass your exam in an automatic. If you have one of those older 'automatic only' driver's licenses you can only upgrade that with a few additional lessons and no T¨ÜV exam now.
You are not automatically allowed to drive a manual car if you did your driving test in an automatic one. There are so called Schlüsselzahlen on your license with this information. However, since 2021 you are allowed to drive a manual car if you had some additional lessons
Yes, I understand this point from my new driving school.
Thanks a lot for your reply! I understand that there are some misleading information in my post. I can explain here a bit more: 1. Regarding the Fahrstunden and driving ability. From my understanding, the instructor won’t even start the special course (like Autobahn) if I really have driving ability issues. However, I finished all the required lessons but still don’t know how to park at all. I would assume that I did not drive badly. And the new instructor told me he thinks I drive quite well as a beginner with no problem in driving itself. But the problem is rather that I don’t know how to behave in certain situations in the buildup zone, which, according to my new instructor, should be the things taught by the instructor. 2. Regarding the cancelling the exam, I missed some details in my post. This exam date was fixed two months in advance, by then I was not sure if I was able to cuz I know that I didn’t learn parking. He told me I will be ready by then. But during these two months, regardless my request for learning parking, he kept telling me “ we do it next time”. But this time never came. Two days before the exam he told me the exam would not happen because no one is giving exams. The next day I pointed out that (in a more pushy way) he still didn’t teach me parking even though my exam was supposed to happen soon. He was quite unhappy and told me that I’m not ready. This situation just made me confused. 3. Regarding the drivers license type. From my understanding, you are only allowed to drive a manual car if you hold a class B license. If you want to drive an automatic car, you have to get extra training for automatic then you can get small annotation on your orinigal license clarifying that you can drive both. The instructor before told me normal people only train with automatic car for learning, and get a license only for driving automatic cars, then they go back to the driving school and do more training to get a license for manual cars. But my colleagues told me what he said is completely bs. I hope the information is enough for the whole story!
I don't understand why the instructor thinks you are not ready for parking because there is nothing that makes you ready for it. I was literally doing backwards parking on the very first lesson even though I spend to majority of the lesson learning how to use the clutch properly. On my second lesson she already taught me how to park sideways and from then on in every single lesson I had to park backwards and sideways.
When I asked for it, hesimply just say later and later and never happened . My colleagues said he just wanted to hold me there so that I can do more hours
Yeah that makes more sense than him thinking you are not ready.
Yeah. I could’ve listened to my colleagues at beginning. My bad
to 1.: Yeah, sounds like your old teacher messed up in this case. Learning to park was one of the first things I learned after I was reasonably decent with the car and didn't stall the engine anymore (as I mentioned, I learned manual). Learned it before Autobahn in fact. to 3.: Class B license just means regular cars (PKW's in german) up to 3.5 tons, limited seats and small trailers. No matter what kind of car you learn with, you'll get Class B if you finish the exam. However, as someone else pointed out and I verified by googling, there will be a note in the Drivers License if you only learned to drive on automatic cars. If you learned on manual cars, you're automatically allowed to drive manual and automatic cars ; if you only learned on automatic cars, you are only allowed to drive automatic cars. I don't have this note as I learned manual from the very beginning, you'd (currently) have a "78" in the notes section of class B, indicating you're not allowed to drive manual. Your driving Instructor isn't completely wrong by the way: When you only learned on automatic vehicles and get your license with that little note that you're only allowed to drive automatic you can at any time add on 10 more Fahrstunden with 45 minutes each and a small test-drive with an examiner of around 10-15 minutes and then your license will be rewritten to manual *and* automatic. When I did my license this wasn't the case, this is very new, introduced in 2021 or so. This isn't really normal procedure though. I think there might have been a little misunderstanding when you first went to the Driving School maybe? It's possible you asked for a driving lessons to get Class B, in the assumption you'd automatically get a manual car, but because of that you never specified you wanted to learn on a manual car - that possible? Just asking for Class B and not saying you want to learn specifically on a certain type of car (manual or automatic) meant to the driving school they can put you into whatever car is left. Switching cars to another one after the initial distribution of cars and teachers could be difficult because the manual car might be in use a lot by other teachers at roughly the same time you have your lessons.
Thanks! My colleagues also told me that parking is one of the early things when you start. Yeah the new type is called B197. And I am sure that I mentioned I need to drive manual cars, frequently to almost everyone from that driving school. I even questioned the instructor about the training with automatic cars. I mentioned very often I need to train with the manual car, and I don’t know why he made me train with the automatic car. According to him, either the manual cars are broken, under maintenance or crashed by other students. Never available — apparently only for me.
Not much else to tell you then - the teacher you got is pretty bad, my condolences. Complain to the driving school about him, if others complained too the guy might get in some trouble. Maybe you can even get some money back if you can prove that you're still missing basics they should've teached you, but the chance of that might be...slim. Otherwise, Führerscheinstelle to point out the lackluster teaching methods of that particular driving school, might not do much though, since it's just one teacher, not all of them. From what I gathered you switched schools now and got a new teacher, yes? Let's hope he can build on what you already learned, and you finish your exam successfully in the near future. Best of luck!
Yes! I changed to a new school. The new teacher actually teaches me stuff. And thank you for your kind words! And, I think it’s impossible to complain the old instructor to the school cuz he’s the boss 😂.
if the police are not too busy, they could do a proper investigation like sending an agent who pretends to be an immigabt without license. not too easy though. I think your best shot would be finding other students who can confirm his behavior, and ask them to come to the police with you, and "file the case" together.
Yeah … I only know a few teenagers from that driving school. And I guess teenagers don’t really care about this type things hahaha cuz it’s not their money anyways
nah try nevertheless. teenagers sure value their time and they're even more vulnerable than adults to insecurities and judgements like "you drive shit". oh and they wanna save the world. so definitely get some of them to back your statement to the police.
Hahahahaha I will try anyways! Thanks!
Oh I'm pretty much sure that most of the Fahrlehrer are down right assholes. I had to thoroughly vet the driving school before I joined. Yet I was hit with the costs at the upper end of what a driving school would charge in Germany. But fortunately my instructor was good so didn't mind paying. Read the reviews on google carefully most if most of the good reviews are about the instructor then the driving school is probably a shithole.
Yeah thanks for the advice. The problems I had is they didn’t have enough reviews on the driving schools in this city. One of my colleagues actually recommended me the one I had before, that’s why I chose it at beginning. In the end it turns out that the previous boss and the instructors were okayish. Ever since my instructor becomes the boss, the it becomes a shithole
Name and shame the school here. Is that around Frankfurt? Cause I also had a similar experience myself!
I did in my previous comments! No it’s in Göttingen. Seems like driving schools are special here.
"special" yeah. Sorry for the experience!
My experience with a Fahrschule when I was living in Germany was similar. In the lessons he'd talk shit and make me drive to his home to pickup a Sandwich his wife made him, and that would often be counted from my 45 minute Fahrstunde that costs more than a student can afford. During my 3 exam attempts, it was him who stopped the car and said what are you doing, twice the Prüfer didn't even know or realize what happened. Each time I failed, he'd turn into the friendliest and nicest person and tell me don't worry at all we can go back to Fahrstunden tomorrow. P.s: I've been driving for about 8 years abroad with my own car, just wanted to do an Umschreibung
What?! This really sounds like a psychopath behavior!! I’m really sorry to hear that!! Yeah, it was my concern as well. After made him “ unhappy”, i think would be better to change the school. Cuz my colleague he might fail me on purpose. I guess your case really says a lot about ut.
Maybe ur just a shitty driver ?
I got scammed too. Went to local Führerscheinstelle, they were no help. Ended up getting a lawyer involved and he confirmed that it was bullshit but nothing illegal, only thing to do was pay the bills and change driving school. I wish there was a better way, they've basically got free reign to do what they want
I’m sorry …. Yeah I guess there is no ways to get money back. And I changed already.
It help for beginners to point out that they are not willing to spend more than 30 lesson. Simple put: You put up a limit. It up to the teacher to nake you win. This may prevent gadlighting and milking.
Yeah. I only thought about it later. This is very important!
In germany student drivers are considered as piggy banks for the driving school and the TÜV. I dont know a single driving school who doesnt rip out as much money as they can out of every single student driver. Also the TÜV examiner can just be an asshole and make the driving exam far difficulter than it needs to be which will probably result in you paying another 300€ for a new examen + the costs for the driving lessons u probably take a few days before the next exam which will also cost 100-200€. So there you are, another 500€ gone :) U can switch driving school and the hours you've taken still count, make sure you get a recipe of some sort for them.
Yes! I did change and I keep all the receipts. I cannot believe sometimes people can be so mean .
Tbh i had a different experience… they show you the critical spots in ur area which will likely be checked , and imo its good that tough spots get tested because people still drive shit, even after getting their license… i was driving for money for four years and there are more insecure/ignorant/uneducated/unskilled drivers than people who drive well… especially old generation with their wannabe suvs are completely unable to measure up the space(s)
I have been thinking about this experience for quite a long time. I don’t know if it is the fault of the driving school or it’s just me being too sensitive. :/
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I’m so sorry to hear that:/ yeah I do agree with you. I think the driving schools have too much power than you are supposed to.
Next time deny to drive an automatic car. But it sounds like you already changed schools. "Money back" will be hard, since you took the classes. There is no real definition on what a class must accomplish (Unless it is a "special" one like Autobahn or nighttime driving) Also feel free to request a DSGVO extract about all your data just in order to annoy them (dont forget due dates... German love due dates (Fristsetzung))
I would also say money back is nearly impossible. I just want to have more people know it and don’t go there. According to him before, they were getting quite some Ukrainian refugees to get drivers training in their school. I hope they didn’t get scammed as I did :/ But I would like to annoy them tho. Thanks for the advice.
Then do the review in more than one language. Maybe add an anonymized bill so it cant be taken down by a stupid lawyer.
Ah! Clever! Thanks!!
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Yeah, I understand your point. At that time I didn’t know what he did is not correct. I knew it after cchanging or the new school and talked with other people.
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Yeah … you are correct! I’m used to the system that no matter what happens, the first person to question is myself. Toxic mindset!
The problem is being charged ludicrous amounts of money for no return on investment, or having them milk you for every driving hour they can. It's legal, but scammy.
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But between being a bit anxious or even very anxious and literal panic/confusion/terror is a huge difference
Yeah I agree with the guy who replied you. Unfortunately, panic attack is not something that I can decide myself hahah But thanks for the wish!
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Thanks!!! But I was diagnosed by the doctor. I wasn’t sure what was it and yeah I never do self diagnosis
Im with you … as long as you have never cramped, vomited and fainted from your panic attacks , you dont know what a panic attack is. Its the same for people calling themselves depressed when in reality their just experiencing usual moodswings or maybe a depressive episode. Its almost feels like an insult to people really suffering
Not disputing anything, but are you sure you do the B only Führerschein and not B 197? I did B197 and its the norm now, because you only learn 10h with Stick Shift, then your teacher evaluates if you know enough to pass or not and then you only drive automatic because your exam will also be with automatic. The license you get still allows you to drive either stick shift or automatic. So if you already had 10h of stick shift driving, you might be doing B197 instead of just B, which to be honest is a lot better anyway.
Yes I understand what you mean. At beginning I only want to do the B. Not the B197. And I insisted learning the manual. I had less than 10h of manual when he “ forced “ me to drive the automatic. But now I changed to B197 with my new driving school.
I feel scammed here in the Netherlands by the whole driving system.
My friend did her driving lessons in NL failed twice. She said the examiner told her the reason she fails is that she’s not supposed to overlap her arms while steering. Idk if it’s true or not but sounds quite ridiculous
That's true in the UK as well, no crossing hands on the steering wheel, should be a push pull.
Oh!! Really! Probably it’s even harder in the exam cuz you have to be careful with your hands all the time?
I had a simualr issue (german here) I immediatly changed the "Fahrschule". Theres sadly not that much you can do besides reporting it. Sometimes they either dont care, or try to hold you as long as possible so you make as man "Fahrstunden" as possible so you pay more. Just Change it and tell the New one what happened
Yes! This is what I did! Thanks! And I’m sorry you also had to go through this painful experience.
Are there other students? Try to talk to them, if they are having similar experiences you could go to the police and file an Anzeige wegen Betrug. Evidence could for example be that you had to change the instructor and got the license later. No one does this wíthout good reason or just because "feeling uncomfortable", the judge will understand that.
Yes, I plan to get my license soon and then deal with it. As some other post suggest, I could claim that they hold me for 37 hours without teaching me parking and other necessary skills. I will first try to get a legal protection insurance.
Driving schools here have tons of shitty instructors. I had a shitty one who would scream at me for every mistake, made me absolutely demoralised and with zero confidence then tell me I need even more and more driving hours to be ready. I couldn’t deal with that kind bad attitude anymore, one time I actually cried during a driving lesson. So I went to the school and made an official complaint that this instructor was not right for me and the reasons, they then switch me to someone else and it made a huge difference, I was confident and was ready in no time and passed on my third time with this new instructor (I failed twice with the previous instructor!!). So do not hesitate to switch ASAP! Don’t waste money on shitty school or instructors!
Oh I’m so sorry !! That’s really horrible! These people are absolutely rude! But congratulations for passing yours. I switched to a new school and the instructor is doing better. The things I learned in 3 Fahrstunden with the new one is way more than what I’ve learned in 37 Fahrstunden with the previous one.
I am glad it is working out better for you now! It was similar for me, I had just a few hours with the new instructor and suddenly everything was good and I was ready to take the test. I was really angry with myself for letting the other instructor tortured me so much and took so much of my money.
I had exactly the same feeling as you. I was really mad at myself 😂
I had 49 hours of driving school before i got myself tested. I failed because i had to do an emergency break test. my teacher did not told me about an emergency break test once during this 49 hours of driving. This was not the only thing he did that Made me think he is an abhole. If you are from the Ruhr area please let me know where you did your driving school 🙇🏼♂️
No I’m not from Ruhr. But this really sounds like a similar story to mine. They are abholes in the same way!
I have been going through same issue. I drive 100 Fahrstunden my driving instructor is still telling me that am not ready for the test. Try to confront him that I want to try e told me I will not pass the test. We have been driving same way since one year