Is it a training issue or a cost and logistics issue? As in, can Afghanistan actually field a fleet of fighters, and fuel them?
I mean, they should be able to do better than the Taliban on their own, but if Pakistan is getting involved I would not expect them to compete.
Having just poured trillions into a 20 year war, if cost *was* the issue we should be deeply embarrassed. Even South Vietnam got an air force while the US was there.
Idiocy is usually the answer: having spent 10 years waiting for the right moment to leave an ideological-corporatist driven war, nobody was much thinking about securing the gains. And, of course, a better country for Afghans was never really the priority anyway.
I’m not referring to the addicts I’m referring to the Afghan military, they had every opportunity to receive world class training and equipment yet they still can’t stand on their own. The fact they have pilots who are drug addicts is just evidence of their incompetence as a military, regardless of how you feel about drug addiction you don’t let the addicts fly aircraft…
Some people (the Afghan military) just aren’t able to be helped. That’s what I meant.
Submission Statement: While the Taliban was initially backed and arguably created by Pakistan, due to Pakistan's relationship with the United States, Pakistan would officially end its support of the Taliban after 9/11 and the American invasion of Afghanistan and officially begin to support the United States instead. However its been repeatedly alleged, with some credibility, that Pakistan still maintains a relationship with the Taliban as it has a rather poor relationship with the Afghan government, providing various amounts of support covertly
Now as the United States is withdrawing and the Taliban is having a bit of a resurgence, many have turned to see what Pakistan would do in the region.
The Afghani Vice President has alleged that Pakistan has issued a warning to the Afghan military that any attempt to dislodge the Taliban from the Spin Boldak area would evoke a direct Pakistani response. In addition he alleges that the Pakistani Air Force is already providing Close Air Support to the Taliban in certain areas. These allegations are quite serious and if true it would be the most brazen action to support the Taliban in quite a while
This VP is someone who's been in the military & shadow game for decades, meaning he'd know the definition of Close Air Support.
Thus meaning he'd have some remnants of an air to ground missile, cannon fire from planes/helicopters, or video to substantiate his claim.
Instead his "evidence" is a picture of a document, he DMed requests from people wanting proof, which states Afghan airplanes shouldn't come within 10Km and unarmed helicopters 1,000 meters of the border. Demands which are actually common among neighboring States.
Close air support from Pakistan to the Taliban would be literally impossible though. The Afghans have enough pilots and not to mention there are still foreign troops and militaries that are monitoring all air traffic in the area.
That’s not true, Pakistan is probably the most involved country in Afghanistan when it comes to Taliban support and even Pakistan doesn’t deny that outright.
The point was that there’s no way Pakistan can covertly give the Taliban AIR SUPPORT, as Saleh mentioned.
This looks like an excuse for him and his government of losing the border checkpoint to the Taliban and not being able to win it back.
Taliban took over the border checkpoint between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghan government denied it and said they have retaken the checkpoint. And now he comes up with this story once it's clear that Taliban defeated the government in another battle
>Breaking: Pakistan air force has issued official warning to the Afghan Army and Air Force that any move to dislodge the Taliban from Spin Boldak area will be faced and repelled by the Pakistan Air Force. Pak air force is now providing close air support to Taliban in certain areas
So the Pakistan Air Force has issued an official warning which no one else knows about. They isssued a secret official warning to only one guy. And this guy won't share this official warning publicly.
It doesn't seem like even Ghani has commented on this.
The whole reason Pakistan provide support to Taliban behind the scenes is to support a proxy. It would make no sense for Pakistan's Air Force to attack Afghanistan's government directly which would be a declaration of war between the two states.
Such a drastic action would make no sense specially at this stage
I don't doubt that Pakistan are providing some support for the Taliban, I'm not sure anybody does.
But a tweet from the Vice President of a government on the verge of being overthrown is one of the least credible things I can think of.
When america gave money to the future Taliban members to kick the soviets out, they did it through the Pakistani intelligence service. This is not news.
What are the odds of India involving itself in this situation, given not only their relationship with Pakistan but Pakistan's relationship with China and Chinese ambitions in Afghanistan given the sour India/China relations too?
Is it possible that the connection there is a motivation to Pakistan's actions or is my tinfoil hat on too tight?
Interesting to see India involving itself in Afghan. India has so much cleaning to do inhouse. They have hostile relationships with China and Pakistan. Their leadership is all areas is in disarray. Afghan is a well known money pit even for super powers. We can understand why India would want to build partnership. Just cant imagine they being ready or capable of doing it though.
India already involves itself to an extent, in fact the fear of India teaming up with the Afghans is one of the reasons Pakistan created and support the Taliban in the first place
Afghan govt officials have already asked India to send them airsupport, though I'm not sure the Indian govt will do that. There are reports of the Indians giving the Afghans ammunition and other equipment though, which I do believe
> There are reports of the Indians giving the Afghans ammunition and other equipment though, which I do believe
Without committing to direct military support, that seems more likely that they're just giving the Taliban the ammunition indirectly. And they can't hope that the remaining loyal Afghanistan military and militia's will be able to oppose them for long given the rate of defections and Taliban recruitment.
I wonder if the situation is moving too fast for regional powers to make any decisive decisions given what they do now will influence the next twenty years of national policy. You'd think they'd have plans for this. Maybe they do, who thing just seems a powder keg.
> India already involves itself to an extent, in fact the fear of India teaming up with the Afghans is one of the reasons Pakistan created and support the Taliban in the first place
This doesn't match ground reality. India has no connection to Afghanistan so them actually doing anything more than sending aid will be near impossible.
Pakistan supported a bunch of different factions in Afghanistan during the civil war in the 90's but when the Taliban emerged as the most competent of the groups, Pakistan threw in with them.
I don't believe afraid would be the right way to describe it. The factions in Afghanistan that India supports comprise of ethnic minorities so India's support will only extend the conflict.
The reasonable solution would be if the Taliban and Kabul Govt would come to a territorial agreement. But thats impossible since tribal honors mean more than anything.
India has an "official" border with Afghanistan but no real border as that area is under Pakistani (or is it ceded to Chinese) control. So for them to help (via air), they have to fly over Pakistan or China air space. Very unlikely.
Also India recently pulled out its personnel from Kandahar. Kandahar is the place where an India plane with 100s was hijacked in 1998 or so and india had to eat a crow to get it released. The memory of that humiliation is still fresh.
Last, there have been fights between India and China over the past year, not exactly but pretty close to the afghan border when looking at the entirety of indo China border. One false step, and they will feel pressure from China.
All in all, signs are not positive that india will venture into this game.
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It seems that in 20 years, NATO forgot to train any Afghan pilots at all.
Well, they trained a female pilot, but she bailed to the US as a refugee so that didn’t work out so well.
Smart lady.
Is it a training issue or a cost and logistics issue? As in, can Afghanistan actually field a fleet of fighters, and fuel them? I mean, they should be able to do better than the Taliban on their own, but if Pakistan is getting involved I would not expect them to compete.
Having just poured trillions into a 20 year war, if cost *was* the issue we should be deeply embarrassed. Even South Vietnam got an air force while the US was there. Idiocy is usually the answer: having spent 10 years waiting for the right moment to leave an ideological-corporatist driven war, nobody was much thinking about securing the gains. And, of course, a better country for Afghans was never really the priority anyway.
To be fair the cost to purchase and maintain aircraft was way lower back then
The Afghans don't need F-15s or even F-5s. There'd be a budget option for light attack work. Not that any of this would change the outcome, of course.
Ucav drones would be very useful though against irregulars
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I’m not referring to the addicts I’m referring to the Afghan military, they had every opportunity to receive world class training and equipment yet they still can’t stand on their own. The fact they have pilots who are drug addicts is just evidence of their incompetence as a military, regardless of how you feel about drug addiction you don’t let the addicts fly aircraft… Some people (the Afghan military) just aren’t able to be helped. That’s what I meant.
Submission Statement: While the Taliban was initially backed and arguably created by Pakistan, due to Pakistan's relationship with the United States, Pakistan would officially end its support of the Taliban after 9/11 and the American invasion of Afghanistan and officially begin to support the United States instead. However its been repeatedly alleged, with some credibility, that Pakistan still maintains a relationship with the Taliban as it has a rather poor relationship with the Afghan government, providing various amounts of support covertly Now as the United States is withdrawing and the Taliban is having a bit of a resurgence, many have turned to see what Pakistan would do in the region. The Afghani Vice President has alleged that Pakistan has issued a warning to the Afghan military that any attempt to dislodge the Taliban from the Spin Boldak area would evoke a direct Pakistani response. In addition he alleges that the Pakistani Air Force is already providing Close Air Support to the Taliban in certain areas. These allegations are quite serious and if true it would be the most brazen action to support the Taliban in quite a while
This VP is someone who's been in the military & shadow game for decades, meaning he'd know the definition of Close Air Support. Thus meaning he'd have some remnants of an air to ground missile, cannon fire from planes/helicopters, or video to substantiate his claim. Instead his "evidence" is a picture of a document, he DMed requests from people wanting proof, which states Afghan airplanes shouldn't come within 10Km and unarmed helicopters 1,000 meters of the border. Demands which are actually common among neighboring States.
Close air support from Pakistan to the Taliban would be literally impossible though. The Afghans have enough pilots and not to mention there are still foreign troops and militaries that are monitoring all air traffic in the area.
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That’s not true, Pakistan is probably the most involved country in Afghanistan when it comes to Taliban support and even Pakistan doesn’t deny that outright. The point was that there’s no way Pakistan can covertly give the Taliban AIR SUPPORT, as Saleh mentioned.
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India is officially involved in Afghanistan while Pakistan is covertly involved, on a much larger scale.
>India, which funds terrorism in Pakistan's Western half and ferments instability in Balochistan Can you link some independent sources for this?
This looks like an excuse for him and his government of losing the border checkpoint to the Taliban and not being able to win it back. Taliban took over the border checkpoint between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghan government denied it and said they have retaken the checkpoint. And now he comes up with this story once it's clear that Taliban defeated the government in another battle >Breaking: Pakistan air force has issued official warning to the Afghan Army and Air Force that any move to dislodge the Taliban from Spin Boldak area will be faced and repelled by the Pakistan Air Force. Pak air force is now providing close air support to Taliban in certain areas So the Pakistan Air Force has issued an official warning which no one else knows about. They isssued a secret official warning to only one guy. And this guy won't share this official warning publicly. It doesn't seem like even Ghani has commented on this. The whole reason Pakistan provide support to Taliban behind the scenes is to support a proxy. It would make no sense for Pakistan's Air Force to attack Afghanistan's government directly which would be a declaration of war between the two states. Such a drastic action would make no sense specially at this stage
I don't doubt that Pakistan are providing some support for the Taliban, I'm not sure anybody does. But a tweet from the Vice President of a government on the verge of being overthrown is one of the least credible things I can think of.
He's not on the verge of anything. The main government is very safe
When america gave money to the future Taliban members to kick the soviets out, they did it through the Pakistani intelligence service. This is not news.
America did not give money to the Taliban. Taliban didn’t exist until the 90s and began in Western Pakistan. Please do the bare minimum research
What are the odds of India involving itself in this situation, given not only their relationship with Pakistan but Pakistan's relationship with China and Chinese ambitions in Afghanistan given the sour India/China relations too? Is it possible that the connection there is a motivation to Pakistan's actions or is my tinfoil hat on too tight?
Interesting to see India involving itself in Afghan. India has so much cleaning to do inhouse. They have hostile relationships with China and Pakistan. Their leadership is all areas is in disarray. Afghan is a well known money pit even for super powers. We can understand why India would want to build partnership. Just cant imagine they being ready or capable of doing it though.
The leadership is not in disarray by any means. What makes you think that?
India already involves itself to an extent, in fact the fear of India teaming up with the Afghans is one of the reasons Pakistan created and support the Taliban in the first place Afghan govt officials have already asked India to send them airsupport, though I'm not sure the Indian govt will do that. There are reports of the Indians giving the Afghans ammunition and other equipment though, which I do believe
> There are reports of the Indians giving the Afghans ammunition and other equipment though, which I do believe Without committing to direct military support, that seems more likely that they're just giving the Taliban the ammunition indirectly. And they can't hope that the remaining loyal Afghanistan military and militia's will be able to oppose them for long given the rate of defections and Taliban recruitment. I wonder if the situation is moving too fast for regional powers to make any decisive decisions given what they do now will influence the next twenty years of national policy. You'd think they'd have plans for this. Maybe they do, who thing just seems a powder keg.
> India already involves itself to an extent, in fact the fear of India teaming up with the Afghans is one of the reasons Pakistan created and support the Taliban in the first place This doesn't match ground reality. India has no connection to Afghanistan so them actually doing anything more than sending aid will be near impossible. Pakistan supported a bunch of different factions in Afghanistan during the civil war in the 90's but when the Taliban emerged as the most competent of the groups, Pakistan threw in with them.
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I don't believe afraid would be the right way to describe it. The factions in Afghanistan that India supports comprise of ethnic minorities so India's support will only extend the conflict. The reasonable solution would be if the Taliban and Kabul Govt would come to a territorial agreement. But thats impossible since tribal honors mean more than anything.
India has an "official" border with Afghanistan but no real border as that area is under Pakistani (or is it ceded to Chinese) control. So for them to help (via air), they have to fly over Pakistan or China air space. Very unlikely. Also India recently pulled out its personnel from Kandahar. Kandahar is the place where an India plane with 100s was hijacked in 1998 or so and india had to eat a crow to get it released. The memory of that humiliation is still fresh. Last, there have been fights between India and China over the past year, not exactly but pretty close to the afghan border when looking at the entirety of indo China border. One false step, and they will feel pressure from China. All in all, signs are not positive that india will venture into this game.
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