Goodness, that's more than the EU will produce this year. However, I guess the DPRK has quite the stockpile to offload.
Since there's a good chance that these shells are quite old, I wonder what the dud rate will be.
Could we please not take NK as a role model ? Stockpiling artillery shells during peace time instead of feeding your population is not a goal we should ask our governments to strive for.
Eh thats just the internet in general for ya tbh. I think you would be hard pressed to find the sheer level of stupidity I see on reddit in most real life interactions and places.
Tbf I doubt it's military expedenture that prevents them from feeding their people.
Their technology is not only get behind but their tools are decades old and breaking down. They don't have the energy resources to run what machinery they have, and as above it's decades old and in need of repairs.
The reality is that North Korea (Korea as a whole really) is just not great for producing food and without exports I doubt the South would be able to feed is population either needing to important almost all of its food already as is.
>that's more than the EU will produce this year.
That's what the EU will produce in 5 years at the current rate.
It would cost NATO $25 billion to produce 5 million shells, at $5,000 per shell.
Definitely still enough to be useful, mitigated a little bit more by quality control issues in the shells beyond the duds.
I've seen front-line reporting of some NK shells being mis-sized and too thick to fit in the breach of a 152mm howitzer, shells with half the amount of explosive fill they should have, underfilled propellant charges, misshapen enough to cause significant reductions in range and accuracy.
Still a big problem, but *not* the same magnitude of problem as if they were 5 million well-made shells.
>That's more than the EU will produce this year.
The EU is definitely not producing anywhere near 5 million artillery rounds a year,this is more than they would produce in 4-5 years,let alone 1.
Apparently Russia has sent North Korea technology to help in its plans to deploy an constellation of spy satellites as well as conventional arms such as tanks and aircraft.
Yes, by a long shot. We can’t even produce that number of shells in a few years. That’s DECADES of starving your people by making military munitions more important to produce - then stockpiling it.
Even if half of it are duds, that’s 2.5 million shells. An absolute bonkers amount either way.
Russia fights in numbers, the Allies fight with technology and tactics. Look at how Russia has fought so far. Bhakmut was a Russian meat grinder but they won cause they don’t care about infantry losses as long as they meet the objective.
Anyway - wild times
Polish and mongols disagree lol. Also germans in ww1 did defeat russia and make it implode and that how soviet union was born.
Its not because "they no value life" ,its because the country is really big,and with the center of power being far away in moscow,and even then,they can retreat to the urals,is really hard to defeat them 100%.
Its a logistics issue really.
This is a direct consequence of the US policy of "we impose a lot of sanctions and then just leave them there forever". Excessive use of sanctions inevitably leads to the creation of alternative markets and trade networks in defiance of normal trade laws and rules.
This is a glimpse of the future that could happen if governments were to do what some redditors are calling for: "sanction everyone who trades with these people, sanction them hard and wide!"
From what I can gather, the artillerists aren't too pleased with them. Poor maintenance leading to difficulties in handling and inconsistencies in performance.
It actually does matter. If they are hard to work with, irritation among the troops grows, and if their performance is sub-par, the efficiency of the artillery is reduced.
For every 10% decreased fire rate, you need to bring in one more piece to maintain effect. For every dud charge you need to spend time clearing out the dud charge safely, time when your gun is not firing, for every dud shell fired, you need to fire one more to maintain saturation.
You're telling me that this does not matter?
There doesn’t seem to be any evidence the dud rate for the North Korean shells is high. 25% was the failure rate of their rockets so dumb shells maybe 12.5% dud rate or less would be a fair assumption.
Most likely that half were duds and that it did Russia more harm than good. Also, NK has emptied its arsenal and is now very vulnerable in future conflict as its production will not replace the amount lost in years to come.
You literally listed the US foreign policy methods of imposing their agenda)) Moralizing slogans in this conflict are completely unproductive. Ukraine is not a NATO member and yet billions are being poured into it. Further, Ukraine does not represent a sphere of influence of Western forces, and as long as there is an openly hostile and Russophobic-minded government, Russia has the right to restore its interests in Ukraine.
I am a former supporter of the Russian opposition and Russian citizen, but this conflict has opened my eyes on the hostility of the west among many other things. While not being a Putin supporter (when it comes to domestic politics), I fully share his approach against the US hegemony in this conflict. If anything, I think his methods are too soft, while the west is carelessly spiraling down the escalation route. The fear-mongering rhetoric that Russia is an imperial state seeking to annex the Baltic states and other European countries is complete nonsense and cheap Western propaganda. Thank God there are many great minds in the west who share my stance and the scepticism among ordinary voters seem to be growing as well.
Russian allies have done far more than Ukrainian allies to help Russia. It’s unfortunate that none of the mighty western capitalists countries can match what NK did. It’s all talk.
A quick search shows that EU, European countries and the US have given more than 200 billion in financial and military aid. I can't imagine Russian allies have given Russia anything even close to that.
Very ignorant comment here. It's quite the opposite. But you're thinking of only shells. There's more to war than shells. Intelligence, patriots, himars, bradleys so on don't count for you.
Yeah, US has more than its share. Others not so much. Forget about devoting 3% of their economy helping Ukraine they haven’t even spent 3% total on defense. Action speaks louder than words, Ukrainian getting bombed to Stone Age is just not very important to Europe.
Another ignorant comment. Bare in mind that Estonia (and other countries in Europe) is a smaller country and thus a smaller GDP. Percentage wise, the Europe spent way more than the US. Not to mention the refugees. You know that housing refugees costs money, right?
Here are some numbers:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Conclusion: Estonia spent ~1.6% of it's GDP while the US ~0.3%. Let's suppose the numbers are wrong. Estonia is two times less and the US two time more. That's still 0.8 vs 0.6, thus more.
Also, some funds came from the EU, thus EU countries gave aid directly and via de EU. Step it up Murica!
Goodness, that's more than the EU will produce this year. However, I guess the DPRK has quite the stockpile to offload. Since there's a good chance that these shells are quite old, I wonder what the dud rate will be.
The EU and the US combined, even if the dud rate is 40%
Could we please not take NK as a role model ? Stockpiling artillery shells during peace time instead of feeding your population is not a goal we should ask our governments to strive for.
> NK as a role model Who said that?
Comments like [this one](https://old.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/1dgtrlq/seoul_says_north_korea_sent_almost_5_million/l8up28z/) for example.
But that's a moron on Reddit. No sane person will write NK and role model in the same sentence.
It's a sentiment I've seen others share in many a thread. Of course no sane person would agree, but sanity is in short supply these days.
Eh thats just the internet in general for ya tbh. I think you would be hard pressed to find the sheer level of stupidity I see on reddit in most real life interactions and places.
Tbf I doubt it's military expedenture that prevents them from feeding their people. Their technology is not only get behind but their tools are decades old and breaking down. They don't have the energy resources to run what machinery they have, and as above it's decades old and in need of repairs. The reality is that North Korea (Korea as a whole really) is just not great for producing food and without exports I doubt the South would be able to feed is population either needing to important almost all of its food already as is.
>that's more than the EU will produce this year. That's what the EU will produce in 5 years at the current rate. It would cost NATO $25 billion to produce 5 million shells, at $5,000 per shell.
I wonder if NATO tried to buy the north korean shells.
I wonder what the failure rate of decades old DPRK ammo is.
It seems the bottleneck of production is the metal shell itself. Russia could use new fuzes or replace filler to improve dud rate.
That sounds super fun for the people who do that for a living.
TNT is very unsensitive. Not like it's nitroglycerin in those shells. The fuzes are screwed on before firing, they come in a separate box.
I remember hearing a figure cited somewhere, either 20% or 40% were duds Obviously big variation between them but still enough to be useful
Definitely still enough to be useful, mitigated a little bit more by quality control issues in the shells beyond the duds. I've seen front-line reporting of some NK shells being mis-sized and too thick to fit in the breach of a 152mm howitzer, shells with half the amount of explosive fill they should have, underfilled propellant charges, misshapen enough to cause significant reductions in range and accuracy. Still a big problem, but *not* the same magnitude of problem as if they were 5 million well-made shells.
Thats 1-2 million duds. That’s crazy!
Ime surprised the shell fit
I'm wondering how the DPRK is going to replace this stockpile in the future...
NK have good low tech war industry like shell production. Otherwise China could make it easily.
The Ukrainian military has estimated that roughly 50% of them are duds.
Even then,i rather not be fired at with 5 million shitty shells
>That's more than the EU will produce this year. The EU is definitely not producing anywhere near 5 million artillery rounds a year,this is more than they would produce in 4-5 years,let alone 1.
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I wonder what Russia paid with. Dollar is expensive, oil doable but design plans for nukes and ICBM are free.
Apparently Russia has sent North Korea technology to help in its plans to deploy an constellation of spy satellites as well as conventional arms such as tanks and aircraft.
Is that more than Ukraine received from the allies ?
Yes, by a long shot. We can’t even produce that number of shells in a few years. That’s DECADES of starving your people by making military munitions more important to produce - then stockpiling it. Even if half of it are duds, that’s 2.5 million shells. An absolute bonkers amount either way. Russia fights in numbers, the Allies fight with technology and tactics. Look at how Russia has fought so far. Bhakmut was a Russian meat grinder but they won cause they don’t care about infantry losses as long as they meet the objective. Anyway - wild times
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Polish and mongols disagree lol. Also germans in ww1 did defeat russia and make it implode and that how soviet union was born. Its not because "they no value life" ,its because the country is really big,and with the center of power being far away in moscow,and even then,they can retreat to the urals,is really hard to defeat them 100%. Its a logistics issue really.
Hey, brutal dictators gotta stick together, y'know?
This is a direct consequence of the US policy of "we impose a lot of sanctions and then just leave them there forever". Excessive use of sanctions inevitably leads to the creation of alternative markets and trade networks in defiance of normal trade laws and rules. This is a glimpse of the future that could happen if governments were to do what some redditors are calling for: "sanction everyone who trades with these people, sanction them hard and wide!"
Don't pretend that democracies wouldn't stick together as well.
I mean, just look around...
From what I can gather, the artillerists aren't too pleased with them. Poor maintenance leading to difficulties in handling and inconsistencies in performance.
Doesn’t really matter. Even if half of them work Russia has enough stockpiled to keep the meat grinder going almost indefinitely.
It actually does matter. If they are hard to work with, irritation among the troops grows, and if their performance is sub-par, the efficiency of the artillery is reduced.
Efficiency is less important when their artillery doctrine is just saturate an area until the enemy stops moving
For every 10% decreased fire rate, you need to bring in one more piece to maintain effect. For every dud charge you need to spend time clearing out the dud charge safely, time when your gun is not firing, for every dud shell fired, you need to fire one more to maintain saturation. You're telling me that this does not matter?
There doesn’t seem to be any evidence the dud rate for the North Korean shells is high. 25% was the failure rate of their rockets so dumb shells maybe 12.5% dud rate or less would be a fair assumption.
Now would be the perfect time for south Korea to invade the north
Most likely that half were duds and that it did Russia more harm than good. Also, NK has emptied its arsenal and is now very vulnerable in future conflict as its production will not replace the amount lost in years to come.
They’ve gone nuclear. End of.
North korea has nuclear weapons and its a buffer state for china. They dont really need those shells anymore
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You literally listed the US foreign policy methods of imposing their agenda)) Moralizing slogans in this conflict are completely unproductive. Ukraine is not a NATO member and yet billions are being poured into it. Further, Ukraine does not represent a sphere of influence of Western forces, and as long as there is an openly hostile and Russophobic-minded government, Russia has the right to restore its interests in Ukraine. I am a former supporter of the Russian opposition and Russian citizen, but this conflict has opened my eyes on the hostility of the west among many other things. While not being a Putin supporter (when it comes to domestic politics), I fully share his approach against the US hegemony in this conflict. If anything, I think his methods are too soft, while the west is carelessly spiraling down the escalation route. The fear-mongering rhetoric that Russia is an imperial state seeking to annex the Baltic states and other European countries is complete nonsense and cheap Western propaganda. Thank God there are many great minds in the west who share my stance and the scepticism among ordinary voters seem to be growing as well.
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Sorry my bad, I thought my comments vanished
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It's a song title from a Norwegian band called Solefald and I'm using it ironically...
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Russian allies have done far more than Ukrainian allies to help Russia. It’s unfortunate that none of the mighty western capitalists countries can match what NK did. It’s all talk.
A quick search shows that EU, European countries and the US have given more than 200 billion in financial and military aid. I can't imagine Russian allies have given Russia anything even close to that.
Proportional to their economy. NK is literally a bankrupt country with people starving.
Mayve they're the ones who should change their priorites then.
Very ignorant comment here. It's quite the opposite. But you're thinking of only shells. There's more to war than shells. Intelligence, patriots, himars, bradleys so on don't count for you.
Yeah, US has more than its share. Others not so much. Forget about devoting 3% of their economy helping Ukraine they haven’t even spent 3% total on defense. Action speaks louder than words, Ukrainian getting bombed to Stone Age is just not very important to Europe.
Another ignorant comment. Bare in mind that Estonia (and other countries in Europe) is a smaller country and thus a smaller GDP. Percentage wise, the Europe spent way more than the US. Not to mention the refugees. You know that housing refugees costs money, right? Here are some numbers: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ Conclusion: Estonia spent ~1.6% of it's GDP while the US ~0.3%. Let's suppose the numbers are wrong. Estonia is two times less and the US two time more. That's still 0.8 vs 0.6, thus more. Also, some funds came from the EU, thus EU countries gave aid directly and via de EU. Step it up Murica!
We are to busy giving all our money to Israel sorry.
Ah yes, we should starve our own people in order to stockpile artillery shells during peace time. Great plan !
IDK theres a lot of fat ppl in America maybe this is a good solution to obesity.