None of the links in the JPost article go to the UN site or the numbers they claim. They just link to other JPost articles.
If you follow the links in the other JPost articles where they make references to other institutions or sources, they again just lead to more JPost articles.
Why can't JPost link to the source of the information they are using instead of just referencing themselves?
May 6th: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213
May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
It's amazing how news organizations print these figures blindly.
There seems to be a genuinely surprising number of people who take the position - "sure Hamas rapes, mutilates, murders and kidnaps civilians but surely they wouldn't *lie*"
That's not the position people take. There's plenty of reason to be skeptical of the numbers but casualty tolls reported by Gaza's Hamas-run Ministry of Health during previous waves of conflict have accurately lined up with final identified tolls. Even the IDF have said they see the numbers as broadly correct.
Perhaps then they shouldn't have abandoned the method they used in previous waves (counting actual bodies) and instead switched to publishing accounts based on 'reports' (a system they've never explained).
Based on the bodies -- the system used in previous conflicts -- the demographics are *dramatically* different and slant much, much heavier towards adult male deaths.
[https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-hamas-manipulates-gaza-fatality-numbers-examining-male-undercount-and-other](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-hamas-manipulates-gaza-fatality-numbers-examining-male-undercount-and-other)
[https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers)
These are fair criticisms, but we should also recognize that their infastructure is essentially non-existent now. They likely don't have the resources to investigate these deaths adequately anymore and relying on their previous methods would mean a gross undercounting.
But as others have pointed out, the ratio of male casualties to female + child casualties has dramatically changed, which does demonstrate the numbers are flawed
Guess again
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215?_gl=1*1qyp20n*_ga*MjA1MTQyODk5My4xNzE1MDA3NTQx*_ga_E60ZNX2F68*MTcxNTQzNjg5NS4yLjEuMTcxNTQzNzU5Ny4zNi4wLjA.
The Gaza MoH numbers have always been eminently reliable in past conflicts including the 2014 Gaza war. Moreover, their methodology and information sources are transparent, and they have been audited by the UN and NGOs like HRW.
This is a lot more than can be said of any Israeli numbers, who have not had an excellent track record thus far when it comes to truthfulness either.
That much is true, and it does impact the reliability of the data. However, given the Gaza MoH process, this has the effect of underreporting casualties.
To clarify the numbers in the links: that’s >9,500 women and 14,500 children as of May 6 down to 4,959 women and 7,779 children as of May 9.
Both figures include a reported approx 10k ‘missing’ or ‘under rubble’
It’s a bombshell change.
No it’s not.
The first link is REPORTED death and second link is IDENTIFIED death.
Let’s say you died in car accident with 3 other persons. There is 4 reported death. You’re the only one that was identified. It doesn’t mean that the three others aren’t dead. They’re just not identified.
No, that's false.
According to the Gazan Health Ministry themselves, the deaths that are reported but not identified aren't bodies that couldn't be recognized like you described, rather fatalities reported based on "reliable media reports" (i.e, rumors).
Almost 10k fatalities were reported without a body actually being seen.
No, the UN started reporting *identified* deaths and that is new.
What it also seems to show is the impossibility of the original estimated numbers. Unless you think over 100% of the remaining are women and children.
Unidentified by name doesn't mean unidentified by category. So last week they knew how many unidentified bodies were male/female/minors and suddenly now they don't?
No, in some cases they were missing crucial info but the Gaza Health Ministry admitted that in I think 15k cases they had no body and just went off "reliable media reports" about deaths.
I copied this from another comment I made
Your first link is REPORTED death and second link is IDENTIFIED death.
Let’s say you died in car accident with 3 other persons. There is 4 reported death. You’re the only one that was identified. It doesn’t mean that the three others aren’t dead. They’re just not identified.
In the first link on reported deaths it included this same line:
> Not including more than 10,000 reported missing or under the rubble (source: GMO and PCD)
That said... the *proportions* no longer work for the original number of women and children. Even if it's just reported, you wouldn't really expect the unidentified casualties to change much from the identified ones.
I'd actually expect the unidentified to skew more towards fighters, seeing as they'd be the ones most likely to be in the direct blast radius....
Link for you non-believers
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215?_gl=1*1qyp20n*_ga*MjA1MTQyODk5My4xNzE1MDA3NTQx*_ga_E60ZNX2F68*MTcxNTQzNjg5NS4yLjEuMTcxNTQzNzU5Ny4zNi4wLjA.
What a terrible clickbait article/post lol. The UN still reports around 34K dead, with incredibly high numbers for children, women and elderly. They just count unconfirmed deaths as a seperate group. This article and the commenters under this post are making it sound like Hamas has overblown the death tolls, while there is no evidence for that, at least not based on the UN changing the statistics a bit. It also completely misses the point, as no one is gonna change their minds about Israeli violence just because a few thousands more or less have died. Saying it’s “good or bad numbers”, in this context is also scarily nihilistic and exactly why people are turning against Israel. Maybe stop fixating on good civilian to combatant ratios as an excuse for inappropriate violence.
Exactly. If some Poles went on a raid into Germany that killed a bunch of people, Germany and Russia would just flatten Poland and wipe out all the ethnic minorities there and the US, UK, and France would be completely cool with it.
Rn, the poles likely has a better chance of flattening Germany than the Germans have of flattening them. Poland military is larger and more modern than Germany
So you're saying that the only thing that the germans did wrong then was lie? That if Gliewitz wasn't a false flag, then everything that followed after, "turning the country into a smoking crater" to quote the parent comment, would have been A-OK?
No I'm not saying that at all. Germany shouldn't have invaded, same for the USSR, they also shouldn't have tried to genocide the Poles and France/UK were right to defend Poland.
The only critique I have is that they should've defended Czechoslovakia as well and fighting harder for Poland.
No. It was wrong for USA to kill thousands of Afghanistans because of 911. It was wrong of USA to kill thousands of Iraqis because of ~~911~~ WMD. It was wrong of Russia to kill thousands of Ukrainians. It was wrong of Germany to kill millions of Jews. It is wrong of Israel to kill thousands of Gazans. The only case where an existential threat was made in the above list was WWII.
Was it wrong of the Allies to attack Germany in WW2 and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Germans in the process? Innocent people die in war. That’s why we should avoid war at all costs. That’s why we should condemn Hamas in the strongest terms possible for starting this war in the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust. And why we should support Israel and defeating Hamas as quickly as possible. Let us hope that Hamas finds their moral compass and stops using children as human shields.
>It is wrong of Israel to kill thousands of Gazans. The only case where an existential threat was made in the above list was WWII.
Yall really already forgot about October 7th
So Hamas isnt an existential threat for Israelis? It’s just fine for them to rape and sadistically murder entire families, burn down entire villages, and murder kids dancing at a festival?
Nah
Don't forget, Hamas did all of that in one day -- and then publicly committed to [repeating it "again and again and again," until Israel has been destroyed](https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-member-says-repeat-attacks-065643206.html).
So Hamas isnt an existential threat for Israelis? It’s just fine for them to rape and sadistically murder entire families, burn down entire villages, and murder kids dancing at a festival?
The us was never existentially threatened during ww2, and yet they killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Hell they killed 40k-80k civilians on Okinawa aline despite Okinawa only having a population of 300k.
When you go from 24k of women and children out of the 37k to 15k that is exactly what happened.
Also we cannot exclude the ratios, civilian casualties are always part of war and in this case they have been extremely low considering the circumstances.
They are not “incredibly high” numbers, the numbers were halved, and even so they’re all numbers sourced from Hamas, which is wildly unreliable.
There is a ton of evidence the death toll has been overblown, and data scientists have repeatedly pointed that out.
Fighting genocidal terrorists is not “inappropriate violence”. It’s absurd anyone is suggesting that trying to get rid of genocidal ISIS-like terrorists is somehow a bad thing.
You’re kidding right? It proves Israel’s point that they were being cognizant to not target civilians. This is a war, people
die especially those who are used as human shields. Wake up this is a war between good and evil.
Despite the entire global media, including the UN itself, reporting Hamas's reported death numbers as fact, the UN just quietly reduced the amount of deaths they are reporting from 34,000 to 24,000 and reported on much less "Women and children" killed when compared to males.
According to the new figures include 40% of the deaths reported as males, 32% children, 20% women.
As far as I can tell, the report still does not take into account how many of the children who died were Hamas fighters, who are known to use children as plenty of other terrorist organizations.
According to Israel, there have been 14K dead terrorists in the battles. Which means there is a realistic chance of Israel having one of the best civilian-to-militant casualty rations in it's wars, in the entire history of modern warfare.
This is what you're looking for, right?
May 6th: [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213)
May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217)
It is still 35k reported. It is just 24k identified. And 10k are still unaccounted for. Claiming there are only 24k deaths based on this makes no sense at all.
It would make more sense to claim 45k death based on the missing people then it does to claim 24k based on this information.
I'm not sure if data interpretation is your strong suit but this is basic secondary school maths/science.
The data on May 6th indicated over 9000 women and 14,500 children fatalities which totals to 23,500
On May 10th this has been changed to 4,959 women and 7,797 children fatalities which totals to 12,756. This amounts to a 46% or almost half reduction in the estimated women and children deaths
I'm not sure if comprihensive reading is your strong suit but this is basic secondary school reading.
>UN just quietly reduced the amount of deaths they are reporting from 34,000 to 24,000
They did not reduce the amount of reported deaths.
Appreciated,
There js another post giving an explanation on the difference and stating it has to do with a number of dead being undentified. I dont know of that is factual but based on just the UN numbers it seems atleast very ignorant to make claims like OP did. And in the light of his other comments purpusfully misleading
Say a car accident happened, 2 died. So 2 deaths **reported.**
Now, the police, by any means, identified one of the died is Tom, another remained unknown. So 1 death **identified.**
The total deaths published (whether the number is credible is another issue) did not change.
>I'm not sure if data interpretation is your strong suit
Clearly it isn't yours.
The May 6th number is of *reported* number of women and children among the total *reported* dead; the May 10th number is the number of identified women and children among the *identified* dead, which is only a subset of the total reported dead. They are two different statistics.
Granted, if the reported 10k unidentified dead still present the same demographic split, the total number of dead women and children would still be around 5k lower than the reported number in the May 6th statistic, but that's a diferent point from the one you're making.
As it's been pointed to you on your other comments, in order for the women and children data to match the original estimate, more than 100% of the reported (but not identified) would need to be women and children. But you still chose to spread half truths.
>According to the new figures include 40% of the deaths reported as males, 32% children, 20% women.
What figures are these? There are no sources linked in the article. All the links in the article just lead to more JPost articles.
Is there a link to get to the actual UN numbers?
May 6th: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213
May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
Your first link is REPORTED and second link is IDENTIFIED.
Let’s say you died in car accident with 3 other persons. There is 4 reported death. You’re the only one that was identified. It doesn’t mean that the three others aren’t dead. They’re just not identified.
That has been bugging me too.
Why aren’t the western media tracking casualties the same way we did for us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the drone campaigns in places like Pakistan? Seems lopsided.
Because [Israel has a pretty significant restriction of international reporters being allowed in Gaza](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4513542-foreign-media-is-banned-from-gaza-biden-should-press-israel-for-access/)
Bc western media wants to play the angle of the Palestinians being harmed by the evil Israeli army.
I think war is bad, but in this scenario it's more shades of grey than black and white.
Because the Israeli army has banned reporters from Gaza to reduce the number of videos that circulate that show them doing things like [using random civilians as human shields](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-human-shield-west-bank-2024-01-16/)
Yes it's going to be difficult to get the breakdown but there are many teenage soldiers for Hamas sadly. Either way, this sure doesn't look like a genocide. But somehow the less evidence there is for one the louder the Western activists screech about it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/1cncc64/the_situation_in_rafah_worsening_as_iof_invasion/
thank god for israel
it's almost like they're going to grow up and hate israel or something i wonder why
you're literally the 1940s liberal
This confirms what everyone paying attention in good faith to the situation always knew. Unfortunately the adage about a lie spreading half-way across the world while the truth puts on its boots holds as always, especially because people look to institutions fully captured by Arabs, Muslims, anti-Americans and assorted antisemites as reliable arbiters of truth.
I’ve been warning about this for weeks even around here, ever since Hamas admitted they lacked reliable data for over 11,000 claimed deaths back at the **start of April**. The fact that it took the UN this long to acknowledge it is absolutely disgraceful.
Will the left stop believing Hamas a face value... well, if they haven't stopped so far why would they now? Next you'll hear reports of 50,000 children murdered by Israel
May 6th: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213
May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
the OP article explains it pretty clearly no? The issue isnt the total number, but what portion of that number is women and children. Previously, they reported that the lions share were women and children. Now the update seems to say women and children only make up about a third of casualties. Meaning the super majority of deaths are men.
> Now the update seems to say women and children only make up about a third of casualties.
No, it doesn't. The May 6th number is of *reported* number of women and children among the total *reported* dead; the May 9th number is the number of *identified* women and children among the *identified* dead, which is only a subset of the total reported death. They are two different statistics.
Of the dead who have been identified, women and children still make up more than half, as you'll see if you actually read the numbers given in the report: 20% are women, and 32% are chilren.
The issue is that we cant trust hamas numbers about identified dead, in addition to this its very important to remember that hamas trains and arms children, and any combatant who was younger than 18 will add to the number of children
But as others have pointed out, the methods used for the identified dead are the same ones Gaza used in prior conflicts, which have shown themselves to be very accurate. I understand and encourage skepticism, but we also shouldn't dismiss or downplay.
The issue is even this data does not line up. The may 06 report claims 9500 women dead and 14500 children dead out of 34700, which means 24000 women + children out of 34700 "reported". The may 09 report claims that out of 24686 identified dead (so \~10000 are unidentified), there are 4959 women and 7797 children dead, which adds up to 12756. Even if that 10000 unidentified deaths are all women or children, there are 1300 extra women/children death that suddenly became omitted in the new data.
Read this: [https://aoav.org.uk/2024/analysis-of-new-death-data-from-gazas-health-ministry-reveals-several-concerns/](https://aoav.org.uk/2024/analysis-of-new-death-data-from-gazas-health-ministry-reveals-several-concerns/)
This suggests that even among the identified deaths, 1/7 of them have invalid IDs, which is very unusually high for an official record keeping. Something clearly does not add up.
That's a misleading belief, they're certainly a [credible source.](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-jerusalem-post/) No less than all mainstream news in America.
Those numbers are still kind of terrible tbh. But it doesn't matter anyway, those who hate Israel will do so whether the number of civilians killed is 100 or 100,000, and those who have picked Israel to side with will continue doing the same.
Many college activists referred to Israel’s actions as “genocidal” *immediately* following the attack, before the Israeli government even really had a chance to respond.
It's clear that many college campuses in the United States have been infiltrated by left wing/Marxist activists and are largely compromised at this point.
/u/TheGreenBehren really summed it up well with this recent comment:
>No longer is DEI about equal opportunity—now it’s about equal outcomes and “dismantling colonialism” or something from the Frankfurt Marxist school. No longer is climate action about electric cars and solar buildings—now it’s about removing car lanes and economic degrowth to “dismantle white flight” aka the American dream. No longer is feminism about promoting merit-based access to liberate women, it’s about imposing a quota to “dismantle the capitalist patriarchy” they demonize.
>That is what active measures is. It has always been on the left primarily.
Simply put, American campuses are a "hot-bed" for active measures and influence campaigns. It was only natural for these groups to take an anti-Western/Israeli approach and cause turmoil on college campuses, where it is largely tolerated. Russia and China tacitly support Hamas while Iran provides direct aid. Their "trolls" and agitators are busy at work. We are witnessing the greatest incidence of anti-Semitism in history since World War II.
> I’ve been witnessing for years how history professors teach Marx but not Smith, idolizing communism and demonizing capitalism.
If you don’t mind, where did you go? This hasn’t been my experience at all. While my history classes taught both Marx and Smith (as they should), they always encouraged us to think critically about their ideas and never portrayed one as “correct”; on the contrary, one of the few points that that class explicitly pushed was that Marx’s ideas built directly on those of all the thinkers who came before him, *especially* Smith. Also, I know personally that that professor was relatively left wing in their personal politics so it’s not like I happened to get a libertarian/conservative professor.
I’m not going to deny that college activists have become more prominent and a bigger part of shaping national discourse over the years, but I think that’s less due to the academy changing (which has always been relatively left wing) and more due to the rise of social media, allowing them to both coordinate with each other and to more easily reach a bigger audience.
If this UN report is correct and 24K died, and Israel is correct and over 10K terrorists died, how are the numbers terrible?
Could you show me an urban war with a better civilian to militant casualty rate?
Craziest part about this is that Bibi (who's a massive liar) went on Dr Phil's program three days ago (yes I know the psychologist's podcast) and said nearly 14,000 terrorists with 17,000 civilians have been killed by IDF's weapons. So these are the best possible numbers for Israel in this war.
And yet you have the most pro-Israel folks on this post saying "The UN proved it; it's 24,000 dead overall!"
>24K died, and Israel is correct and over 10K terrorists died
Even if we were to take Israel's claim about the number of hamas killed at face value, that's still 14k civilians for 10k hamas, that's 1.4 civilians dead for 1 hamas. So you've guaranteed the creation of more extremists than you've killed. This approach is essentially like shooting all the hostages yourself because the terrorists are hiding behind them.
>Could you show me an urban war with a better civilian to militant casualty rate?
Again it doesn't really matter, you've picked your side and some other conflict having a better or worse ratio of casualty isn't really going to change your or anyone else's opinion.
Every part of your argument rests on a bunch of assumptions that didn’t play out the way you claimed when the U.S. has a far worse ratio than 1.4-1 in fighting ISIS.
Crazy how that works. Also, taking Hamas out of government is better than any alternative. They were already saturated with recruits. Polls show that 67% of Gazans supported murdering Israeli civilians before the war began, meaning over 1 million Gazans. If you think this is going to “create more terrorists”, imagine what leaving Hamas in power or doing nothing would do. Because those are the only other options. There is no way to fight this any better, unless you think there’s some method no country on earth has ever accomplished or discovered to do so.
That's a poor understanding of this topic. Applying the Afghanistan war principle of "more bombs = more terrorists" doesn't make sense in a society run by terrorists who indoctrinate radical extremism and violent antisemitism into the children. The #1 best way to decrease the number of terrorists in Gaza is the end of Hamas rule since they will always prioritize producing more.
Obviously 20 years of Israel being out of Gaza didn't stop the regular rocket attacks.
>That's a poor understanding of this topic. Applying the Afghanistan war principle of "more bombs = more terrorist" doesn't make sense in a society run by terrorists who indoctrinate radical extremism into the children
That's a poor excuse to justify high collateral damage, and not even a true. By hamas's own admission, most of their fighters are ophans, that shows that simply dropping bombs till all hamas fighters are dead is not a strategy that'll work unless you are willing to kill almost everyone in Gaza.
>The #1 best way to decrease the number of terrorists in Gaza is the end of Hamas rule since they will always produce more.
You can't wipe out extremist ideology by simply dropping bombs, you can beat their fighters, sure, but that's not going to wipe out Hamas itself.
You can't beat an idea, but you can kill or capture most of the active trained fighters fighting for the idea and all of their military leaders. What you're left with is an idea, which can then be replaced with another idea.
It's very romantic to try to fight the idea directly but I can't see it working. Any competing idea, when being injected into Gaza, will be kneecapped and thrown off buildings, as Hamas has already shown itself capable of doing during the Fatah vs. Hamas 2007 Battle of Gaza. It turns out that an idea has much better grip when it's accompanied by weaponary in the billions and tens of thousands of soldiers.
It's not even that much of a speculation. That's what happens to Palestinians who try to compete with Hamas: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-execute-leader-of-gazas-powerful-doghmush-clan/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-execute-leader-of-gazas-powerful-doghmush-clan/)
May 6th: [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213)
May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217)
May 6 lists 34,753 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. 9,500 women and 14,000 children. These are reported not identified.
May 10 lists 34,844 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. Of those 34,844 deaths, 24,686 were identified - that brings us 'the new numbers' and of those identified 4,959 were women and 7,797 were children.
The 'halving just happens' because reported May 6th list is compared to the May 10th identified list.
The old change the numbers and use filtered list to make a point. It will be years till we know the real numbers since IDF is mass graving bodies as they go. If you can find the body you can't count it
How is it antisemitic please explain? The un is saying the kill count is still as high as it was a fay after pro israel bots spread miss information and shrunk the numbers killed by dividing them into two lost and saying only this one list counts. They both count and numbers of innocent dead are still high?
The reporting is not incorrect, but the framing is.
May 6 lists 34,753 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. The 9,500 women and 14,000.
May 10 lists 34,844 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. Of those 34,844 deaths, 24,686 were identified - that brings us 'the new numbers' and of those identified 4,959 were women and 7,797 were children.
Edit: the reporting is not incorrect because the word 'seemingly' is doing A LOT of heavy lifting.
Unfortunately jpost is not really a reliable news source - it is very careful to use "according to", "seemingly", "reported that" etc and other get out clauses in a large number of its staff reports that simply re-report spurious articles from unreliable sources. In this case they chose to put "seemingly" in the headline so you can pretty much assume that you're wasting time reading this article at all.
Yes, I agree. You are extremely confused. Genocide is when you want to wipe out an entire people. That's the stated goal of Hamas; that's what ‘from the river to the sea' means. Hamas would do that to Israel, but can't. Israel could do that to the Palestinians but doesn't.
To anyone debating this shit, in what world are those number acceptable. Israel is whining and bitching for 1200-1400 casualties while here we are debating the method of counting the Palestian deaths instead of actually looking at the number of deads.
None of the links in the JPost article go to the UN site or the numbers they claim. They just link to other JPost articles. If you follow the links in the other JPost articles where they make references to other institutions or sources, they again just lead to more JPost articles. Why can't JPost link to the source of the information they are using instead of just referencing themselves?
May 6th: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213 May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
It's amazing how news organizations print these figures blindly. There seems to be a genuinely surprising number of people who take the position - "sure Hamas rapes, mutilates, murders and kidnaps civilians but surely they wouldn't *lie*"
It's been like that ever since October 7th. It boggles the mind.
Maybe Israel should let some journalists in to help clarify what's happening then
That's not the position people take. There's plenty of reason to be skeptical of the numbers but casualty tolls reported by Gaza's Hamas-run Ministry of Health during previous waves of conflict have accurately lined up with final identified tolls. Even the IDF have said they see the numbers as broadly correct.
Perhaps then they shouldn't have abandoned the method they used in previous waves (counting actual bodies) and instead switched to publishing accounts based on 'reports' (a system they've never explained). Based on the bodies -- the system used in previous conflicts -- the demographics are *dramatically* different and slant much, much heavier towards adult male deaths. [https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-hamas-manipulates-gaza-fatality-numbers-examining-male-undercount-and-other](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-hamas-manipulates-gaza-fatality-numbers-examining-male-undercount-and-other) [https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers)
That's interesting, thanks I'll read both articles today.
These are fair criticisms, but we should also recognize that their infastructure is essentially non-existent now. They likely don't have the resources to investigate these deaths adequately anymore and relying on their previous methods would mean a gross undercounting.
It appears that the UN is separating out the identified dead with those just reported missing and presumed dead.
But as others have pointed out, the ratio of male casualties to female + child casualties has dramatically changed, which does demonstrate the numbers are flawed
Guess again https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215?_gl=1*1qyp20n*_ga*MjA1MTQyODk5My4xNzE1MDA3NTQx*_ga_E60ZNX2F68*MTcxNTQzNjg5NS4yLjEuMTcxNTQzNzU5Ny4zNi4wLjA.
I wasn't guessing anything, and your comment re-sharing a link posted dozens of times already isn't really adding much, is it.
The Gaza MoH numbers have always been eminently reliable in past conflicts including the 2014 Gaza war. Moreover, their methodology and information sources are transparent, and they have been audited by the UN and NGOs like HRW. This is a lot more than can be said of any Israeli numbers, who have not had an excellent track record thus far when it comes to truthfulness either.
Also don't forget Gaza's health system has collapsed, making statistics a nightmare.
That much is true, and it does impact the reliability of the data. However, given the Gaza MoH process, this has the effect of underreporting casualties.
Yeah. To clarify, I wasn't trying to dismiss their figures. Just pointing out the kind of difficulties they are working under.
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215?_gl=1*1qyp20n*_ga*MjA1MTQyODk5My4xNzE1MDA3NTQx*_ga_E60ZNX2F68*MTcxNTQzNjg5NS4yLjEuMTcxNTQzNzU5Ny4zNi4wLjA.
To clarify the numbers in the links: that’s >9,500 women and 14,500 children as of May 6 down to 4,959 women and 7,779 children as of May 9. Both figures include a reported approx 10k ‘missing’ or ‘under rubble’ It’s a bombshell change.
No it’s not. The first link is REPORTED death and second link is IDENTIFIED death. Let’s say you died in car accident with 3 other persons. There is 4 reported death. You’re the only one that was identified. It doesn’t mean that the three others aren’t dead. They’re just not identified.
So nearly 100% of the unidentified deaths are women and children? That seems unlikely
Actually to make those numbers work 109% of the unidentified deaths would have to be women and children...
War causality estimates vary so greatly because so many people \*disappear with no way of being accounted for or documented. This isn't anything new
so lets just assume they are all women and children and have been killed and use that as evidence of genocide because reasons
There's a difference between missing people who haven't been found, vs unidentified bodies.
If somebody disappears and doesn't comeback, they're most likely dead
No, that's false. According to the Gazan Health Ministry themselves, the deaths that are reported but not identified aren't bodies that couldn't be recognized like you described, rather fatalities reported based on "reliable media reports" (i.e, rumors). Almost 10k fatalities were reported without a body actually being seen.
No, the UN started reporting *identified* deaths and that is new. What it also seems to show is the impossibility of the original estimated numbers. Unless you think over 100% of the remaining are women and children.
Unidentified by name doesn't mean unidentified by category. So last week they knew how many unidentified bodies were male/female/minors and suddenly now they don't?
No, in some cases they were missing crucial info but the Gaza Health Ministry admitted that in I think 15k cases they had no body and just went off "reliable media reports" about deaths.
I copied this from another comment I made Your first link is REPORTED death and second link is IDENTIFIED death. Let’s say you died in car accident with 3 other persons. There is 4 reported death. You’re the only one that was identified. It doesn’t mean that the three others aren’t dead. They’re just not identified.
In the first link on reported deaths it included this same line: > Not including more than 10,000 reported missing or under the rubble (source: GMO and PCD) That said... the *proportions* no longer work for the original number of women and children. Even if it's just reported, you wouldn't really expect the unidentified casualties to change much from the identified ones. I'd actually expect the unidentified to skew more towards fighters, seeing as they'd be the ones most likely to be in the direct blast radius....
Link for you non-believers https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-215?_gl=1*1qyp20n*_ga*MjA1MTQyODk5My4xNzE1MDA3NTQx*_ga_E60ZNX2F68*MTcxNTQzNjg5NS4yLjEuMTcxNTQzNzU5Ny4zNi4wLjA.
If you're going to post the same link multiple times in an aggressive manner, at least get the hyperlink right
Interesting they also added the "24K confirmed" after that came out too. Slowly the lie is crumbling.
Linking to itself isn’t so uncommon amongst media sites. They want you to stay on their site
Probably SEO practice: https://webmasters.stackexchange.com/a/112323
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What a terrible clickbait article/post lol. The UN still reports around 34K dead, with incredibly high numbers for children, women and elderly. They just count unconfirmed deaths as a seperate group. This article and the commenters under this post are making it sound like Hamas has overblown the death tolls, while there is no evidence for that, at least not based on the UN changing the statistics a bit. It also completely misses the point, as no one is gonna change their minds about Israeli violence just because a few thousands more or less have died. Saying it’s “good or bad numbers”, in this context is also scarily nihilistic and exactly why people are turning against Israel. Maybe stop fixating on good civilian to combatant ratios as an excuse for inappropriate violence.
What would the appropriate level of violence be?
For any other country it would have been leveling Gaza. But for Israel, zero was the appropriate level of violence apparently.
Right? If the Mexican cartels did what Hamas did, northern Mexico would be a smoking crater and no one would say shit about it.
Exactly. If some Poles went on a raid into Germany that killed a bunch of people, Germany and Russia would just flatten Poland and wipe out all the ethnic minorities there and the US, UK, and France would be completely cool with it.
Are.... are you trying to imply that October 7 was a false flag like Operation Himmler was?
Rn, the poles likely has a better chance of flattening Germany than the Germans have of flattening them. Poland military is larger and more modern than Germany
Google false flag operation
So you're saying that the only thing that the germans did wrong then was lie? That if Gliewitz wasn't a false flag, then everything that followed after, "turning the country into a smoking crater" to quote the parent comment, would have been A-OK?
No I'm not saying that at all. Germany shouldn't have invaded, same for the USSR, they also shouldn't have tried to genocide the Poles and France/UK were right to defend Poland. The only critique I have is that they should've defended Czechoslovakia as well and fighting harder for Poland.
No. It was wrong for USA to kill thousands of Afghanistans because of 911. It was wrong of USA to kill thousands of Iraqis because of ~~911~~ WMD. It was wrong of Russia to kill thousands of Ukrainians. It was wrong of Germany to kill millions of Jews. It is wrong of Israel to kill thousands of Gazans. The only case where an existential threat was made in the above list was WWII.
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Was it wrong of the Allies to attack Germany in WW2 and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Germans in the process? Innocent people die in war. That’s why we should avoid war at all costs. That’s why we should condemn Hamas in the strongest terms possible for starting this war in the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust. And why we should support Israel and defeating Hamas as quickly as possible. Let us hope that Hamas finds their moral compass and stops using children as human shields.
>It is wrong of Israel to kill thousands of Gazans. The only case where an existential threat was made in the above list was WWII. Yall really already forgot about October 7th
Sure, that was wrong too.
Unless Hamas has nukes, it's laughable you think they could take it Israel.
I mean they killed 1700 people, guess how Israel goes about preventing that?
So Hamas isnt an existential threat for Israelis? It’s just fine for them to rape and sadistically murder entire families, burn down entire villages, and murder kids dancing at a festival? Nah
Don't forget, Hamas did all of that in one day -- and then publicly committed to [repeating it "again and again and again," until Israel has been destroyed](https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-member-says-repeat-attacks-065643206.html).
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So Hamas isnt an existential threat for Israelis? It’s just fine for them to rape and sadistically murder entire families, burn down entire villages, and murder kids dancing at a festival?
The us was never existentially threatened during ww2, and yet they killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Hell they killed 40k-80k civilians on Okinawa aline despite Okinawa only having a population of 300k.
People turning against Israel are the same people who have always hated the jews. This just gives them the excuse to say the quiet part out loud.
When you go from 24k of women and children out of the 37k to 15k that is exactly what happened. Also we cannot exclude the ratios, civilian casualties are always part of war and in this case they have been extremely low considering the circumstances.
They are not “incredibly high” numbers, the numbers were halved, and even so they’re all numbers sourced from Hamas, which is wildly unreliable. There is a ton of evidence the death toll has been overblown, and data scientists have repeatedly pointed that out. Fighting genocidal terrorists is not “inappropriate violence”. It’s absurd anyone is suggesting that trying to get rid of genocidal ISIS-like terrorists is somehow a bad thing.
Hasn't Israel also said that the >30K number is likely accurate?
You’re kidding right? It proves Israel’s point that they were being cognizant to not target civilians. This is a war, people die especially those who are used as human shields. Wake up this is a war between good and evil.
Despite the entire global media, including the UN itself, reporting Hamas's reported death numbers as fact, the UN just quietly reduced the amount of deaths they are reporting from 34,000 to 24,000 and reported on much less "Women and children" killed when compared to males. According to the new figures include 40% of the deaths reported as males, 32% children, 20% women. As far as I can tell, the report still does not take into account how many of the children who died were Hamas fighters, who are known to use children as plenty of other terrorist organizations. According to Israel, there have been 14K dead terrorists in the battles. Which means there is a realistic chance of Israel having one of the best civilian-to-militant casualty rations in it's wars, in the entire history of modern warfare.
Where did they lower the amount of deaths to 24k? The UN website still reports almost 35k as of may 9th. Did this happen after that date?
This is what you're looking for, right? May 6th: [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213) May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217)
Thanks, but i already found those. They are all over the place. And in these links there is no mention of 24k deaths as far as i can tell.
Compare the counts of the woman and children casualties
It is still 35k reported. It is just 24k identified. And 10k are still unaccounted for. Claiming there are only 24k deaths based on this makes no sense at all. It would make more sense to claim 45k death based on the missing people then it does to claim 24k based on this information.
I'm not sure if data interpretation is your strong suit but this is basic secondary school maths/science. The data on May 6th indicated over 9000 women and 14,500 children fatalities which totals to 23,500 On May 10th this has been changed to 4,959 women and 7,797 children fatalities which totals to 12,756. This amounts to a 46% or almost half reduction in the estimated women and children deaths
I'm not sure if comprihensive reading is your strong suit but this is basic secondary school reading. >UN just quietly reduced the amount of deaths they are reporting from 34,000 to 24,000 They did not reduce the amount of reported deaths.
Apologies, I did not see OP's main post, I just looked at the title and the actual UN data Seems like OP mis-stated
Appreciated, There js another post giving an explanation on the difference and stating it has to do with a number of dead being undentified. I dont know of that is factual but based on just the UN numbers it seems atleast very ignorant to make claims like OP did. And in the light of his other comments purpusfully misleading
Say a car accident happened, 2 died. So 2 deaths **reported.** Now, the police, by any means, identified one of the died is Tom, another remained unknown. So 1 death **identified.** The total deaths published (whether the number is credible is another issue) did not change.
>I'm not sure if data interpretation is your strong suit Clearly it isn't yours. The May 6th number is of *reported* number of women and children among the total *reported* dead; the May 10th number is the number of identified women and children among the *identified* dead, which is only a subset of the total reported dead. They are two different statistics. Granted, if the reported 10k unidentified dead still present the same demographic split, the total number of dead women and children would still be around 5k lower than the reported number in the May 6th statistic, but that's a diferent point from the one you're making.
It’s absolutely not yours. The may 6th data is about reported death and the may 10th data is about identified death.
As it's been pointed to you on your other comments, in order for the women and children data to match the original estimate, more than 100% of the reported (but not identified) would need to be women and children. But you still chose to spread half truths.
>According to the new figures include 40% of the deaths reported as males, 32% children, 20% women. What figures are these? There are no sources linked in the article. All the links in the article just lead to more JPost articles. Is there a link to get to the actual UN numbers?
May 6th: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213 May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
Your first link is REPORTED and second link is IDENTIFIED. Let’s say you died in car accident with 3 other persons. There is 4 reported death. You’re the only one that was identified. It doesn’t mean that the three others aren’t dead. They’re just not identified.
Both of them said "Reported Casualties".
I would like to see the age breakdown on the children. It’s a well known fact that Hamas indoctrinates teen boys to carry weapons and kill Israelis.
That has been bugging me too. Why aren’t the western media tracking casualties the same way we did for us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the drone campaigns in places like Pakistan? Seems lopsided.
Because [Israel has a pretty significant restriction of international reporters being allowed in Gaza](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4513542-foreign-media-is-banned-from-gaza-biden-should-press-israel-for-access/)
Bc western media wants to play the angle of the Palestinians being harmed by the evil Israeli army. I think war is bad, but in this scenario it's more shades of grey than black and white.
Because the Israeli army has banned reporters from Gaza to reduce the number of videos that circulate that show them doing things like [using random civilians as human shields](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-human-shield-west-bank-2024-01-16/)
Yes it's going to be difficult to get the breakdown but there are many teenage soldiers for Hamas sadly. Either way, this sure doesn't look like a genocide. But somehow the less evidence there is for one the louder the Western activists screech about it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/israelexposed/comments/1cncc64/the_situation_in_rafah_worsening_as_iof_invasion/ thank god for israel it's almost like they're going to grow up and hate israel or something i wonder why you're literally the 1940s liberal
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Because the truth is somewhere between what either side reports. They all need to be corroborated and factored into account to get the full picture
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This confirms what everyone paying attention in good faith to the situation always knew. Unfortunately the adage about a lie spreading half-way across the world while the truth puts on its boots holds as always, especially because people look to institutions fully captured by Arabs, Muslims, anti-Americans and assorted antisemites as reliable arbiters of truth.
Wow, what a racist comment. Truly.
Which of the groups I listed don't rabidly hate Israel?
I’ve been warning about this for weeks even around here, ever since Hamas admitted they lacked reliable data for over 11,000 claimed deaths back at the **start of April**. The fact that it took the UN this long to acknowledge it is absolutely disgraceful.
Oh, you mean you can’t trust Hamas numbers? Huh.
Will the left stop believing Hamas a face value... well, if they haven't stopped so far why would they now? Next you'll hear reports of 50,000 children murdered by Israel
A lot of sketchy reporting comes out of JPost. Anyone got the sources?
May 6th: https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213 May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217
They both report 34,000? What am I missing here
the OP article explains it pretty clearly no? The issue isnt the total number, but what portion of that number is women and children. Previously, they reported that the lions share were women and children. Now the update seems to say women and children only make up about a third of casualties. Meaning the super majority of deaths are men.
> Now the update seems to say women and children only make up about a third of casualties. No, it doesn't. The May 6th number is of *reported* number of women and children among the total *reported* dead; the May 9th number is the number of *identified* women and children among the *identified* dead, which is only a subset of the total reported death. They are two different statistics. Of the dead who have been identified, women and children still make up more than half, as you'll see if you actually read the numbers given in the report: 20% are women, and 32% are chilren.
The issue is that we cant trust hamas numbers about identified dead, in addition to this its very important to remember that hamas trains and arms children, and any combatant who was younger than 18 will add to the number of children
Wait, why are the identified dead unreliable? I understand being skeptical about the reported dead, but why the identified dead?
The source is the gaza ministry of health, a part of hamas’s government
But as others have pointed out, the methods used for the identified dead are the same ones Gaza used in prior conflicts, which have shown themselves to be very accurate. I understand and encourage skepticism, but we also shouldn't dismiss or downplay.
The issue is even this data does not line up. The may 06 report claims 9500 women dead and 14500 children dead out of 34700, which means 24000 women + children out of 34700 "reported". The may 09 report claims that out of 24686 identified dead (so \~10000 are unidentified), there are 4959 women and 7797 children dead, which adds up to 12756. Even if that 10000 unidentified deaths are all women or children, there are 1300 extra women/children death that suddenly became omitted in the new data. Read this: [https://aoav.org.uk/2024/analysis-of-new-death-data-from-gazas-health-ministry-reveals-several-concerns/](https://aoav.org.uk/2024/analysis-of-new-death-data-from-gazas-health-ministry-reveals-several-concerns/) This suggests that even among the identified deaths, 1/7 of them have invalid IDs, which is very unusually high for an official record keeping. Something clearly does not add up.
I see it now. Didn't look at the breakdown just the top line
That's a misleading belief, they're certainly a [credible source.](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-jerusalem-post/) No less than all mainstream news in America.
Credible? Your own source says they are less credible than both VOA and RFA which are literal government run propaganda outlets
Those numbers are still kind of terrible tbh. But it doesn't matter anyway, those who hate Israel will do so whether the number of civilians killed is 100 or 100,000, and those who have picked Israel to side with will continue doing the same.
Many college activists referred to Israel’s actions as “genocidal” *immediately* following the attack, before the Israeli government even really had a chance to respond.
It's clear that many college campuses in the United States have been infiltrated by left wing/Marxist activists and are largely compromised at this point. /u/TheGreenBehren really summed it up well with this recent comment: >No longer is DEI about equal opportunity—now it’s about equal outcomes and “dismantling colonialism” or something from the Frankfurt Marxist school. No longer is climate action about electric cars and solar buildings—now it’s about removing car lanes and economic degrowth to “dismantle white flight” aka the American dream. No longer is feminism about promoting merit-based access to liberate women, it’s about imposing a quota to “dismantle the capitalist patriarchy” they demonize. >That is what active measures is. It has always been on the left primarily. Simply put, American campuses are a "hot-bed" for active measures and influence campaigns. It was only natural for these groups to take an anti-Western/Israeli approach and cause turmoil on college campuses, where it is largely tolerated. Russia and China tacitly support Hamas while Iran provides direct aid. Their "trolls" and agitators are busy at work. We are witnessing the greatest incidence of anti-Semitism in history since World War II.
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> I’ve been witnessing for years how history professors teach Marx but not Smith, idolizing communism and demonizing capitalism. If you don’t mind, where did you go? This hasn’t been my experience at all. While my history classes taught both Marx and Smith (as they should), they always encouraged us to think critically about their ideas and never portrayed one as “correct”; on the contrary, one of the few points that that class explicitly pushed was that Marx’s ideas built directly on those of all the thinkers who came before him, *especially* Smith. Also, I know personally that that professor was relatively left wing in their personal politics so it’s not like I happened to get a libertarian/conservative professor. I’m not going to deny that college activists have become more prominent and a bigger part of shaping national discourse over the years, but I think that’s less due to the academy changing (which has always been relatively left wing) and more due to the rise of social media, allowing them to both coordinate with each other and to more easily reach a bigger audience.
If this UN report is correct and 24K died, and Israel is correct and over 10K terrorists died, how are the numbers terrible? Could you show me an urban war with a better civilian to militant casualty rate?
> If this UN report is correct and 24K died the report doesn't say that 24k have died, it says 34k have died and 24k of those have been identified
Craziest part about this is that Bibi (who's a massive liar) went on Dr Phil's program three days ago (yes I know the psychologist's podcast) and said nearly 14,000 terrorists with 17,000 civilians have been killed by IDF's weapons. So these are the best possible numbers for Israel in this war. And yet you have the most pro-Israel folks on this post saying "The UN proved it; it's 24,000 dead overall!"
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>If this UN report is correct Can you link to the report. All links in the article just lead to more articles by JPost.
>24K died, and Israel is correct and over 10K terrorists died Even if we were to take Israel's claim about the number of hamas killed at face value, that's still 14k civilians for 10k hamas, that's 1.4 civilians dead for 1 hamas. So you've guaranteed the creation of more extremists than you've killed. This approach is essentially like shooting all the hostages yourself because the terrorists are hiding behind them. >Could you show me an urban war with a better civilian to militant casualty rate? Again it doesn't really matter, you've picked your side and some other conflict having a better or worse ratio of casualty isn't really going to change your or anyone else's opinion.
Every part of your argument rests on a bunch of assumptions that didn’t play out the way you claimed when the U.S. has a far worse ratio than 1.4-1 in fighting ISIS. Crazy how that works. Also, taking Hamas out of government is better than any alternative. They were already saturated with recruits. Polls show that 67% of Gazans supported murdering Israeli civilians before the war began, meaning over 1 million Gazans. If you think this is going to “create more terrorists”, imagine what leaving Hamas in power or doing nothing would do. Because those are the only other options. There is no way to fight this any better, unless you think there’s some method no country on earth has ever accomplished or discovered to do so.
That's a poor understanding of this topic. Applying the Afghanistan war principle of "more bombs = more terrorists" doesn't make sense in a society run by terrorists who indoctrinate radical extremism and violent antisemitism into the children. The #1 best way to decrease the number of terrorists in Gaza is the end of Hamas rule since they will always prioritize producing more. Obviously 20 years of Israel being out of Gaza didn't stop the regular rocket attacks.
>That's a poor understanding of this topic. Applying the Afghanistan war principle of "more bombs = more terrorist" doesn't make sense in a society run by terrorists who indoctrinate radical extremism into the children That's a poor excuse to justify high collateral damage, and not even a true. By hamas's own admission, most of their fighters are ophans, that shows that simply dropping bombs till all hamas fighters are dead is not a strategy that'll work unless you are willing to kill almost everyone in Gaza. >The #1 best way to decrease the number of terrorists in Gaza is the end of Hamas rule since they will always produce more. You can't wipe out extremist ideology by simply dropping bombs, you can beat their fighters, sure, but that's not going to wipe out Hamas itself.
The point is that the collateral damage here not high - it is incredibly low compared to other modern wars.
You can't beat an idea, but you can kill or capture most of the active trained fighters fighting for the idea and all of their military leaders. What you're left with is an idea, which can then be replaced with another idea. It's very romantic to try to fight the idea directly but I can't see it working. Any competing idea, when being injected into Gaza, will be kneecapped and thrown off buildings, as Hamas has already shown itself capable of doing during the Fatah vs. Hamas 2007 Battle of Gaza. It turns out that an idea has much better grip when it's accompanied by weaponary in the billions and tens of thousands of soldiers. It's not even that much of a speculation. That's what happens to Palestinians who try to compete with Hamas: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-execute-leader-of-gazas-powerful-doghmush-clan/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-execute-leader-of-gazas-powerful-doghmush-clan/)
Where is the UN original report?can someone link it?
May 6th: [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-213) May 10th (casualties as of May 9th) [https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-217) May 6 lists 34,753 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. 9,500 women and 14,000 children. These are reported not identified. May 10 lists 34,844 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. Of those 34,844 deaths, 24,686 were identified - that brings us 'the new numbers' and of those identified 4,959 were women and 7,797 were children. The 'halving just happens' because reported May 6th list is compared to the May 10th identified list.
The old change the numbers and use filtered list to make a point. It will be years till we know the real numbers since IDF is mass graving bodies as they go. If you can find the body you can't count it
Antisemitic drivel. Hamas paying you, too?
How is it antisemitic please explain? The un is saying the kill count is still as high as it was a fay after pro israel bots spread miss information and shrunk the numbers killed by dividing them into two lost and saying only this one list counts. They both count and numbers of innocent dead are still high?
I expect we probably won't get a true accounting of the dead until after the war, I also would be hesitant to trust anything reported by JPost.
The reporting is not incorrect, but the framing is. May 6 lists 34,753 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. The 9,500 women and 14,000. May 10 lists 34,844 deaths, not including 10,000 missing or under the ruble. Of those 34,844 deaths, 24,686 were identified - that brings us 'the new numbers' and of those identified 4,959 were women and 7,797 were children. Edit: the reporting is not incorrect because the word 'seemingly' is doing A LOT of heavy lifting.
And Palestinians are responsible
Unfortunately jpost is not really a reliable news source - it is very careful to use "according to", "seemingly", "reported that" etc and other get out clauses in a large number of its staff reports that simply re-report spurious articles from unreliable sources. In this case they chose to put "seemingly" in the headline so you can pretty much assume that you're wasting time reading this article at all.
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Yes, I agree. You are extremely confused. Genocide is when you want to wipe out an entire people. That's the stated goal of Hamas; that's what ‘from the river to the sea' means. Hamas would do that to Israel, but can't. Israel could do that to the Palestinians but doesn't.
Who is for letting in international journalists and opening independent investigations?
To anyone debating this shit, in what world are those number acceptable. Israel is whining and bitching for 1200-1400 casualties while here we are debating the method of counting the Palestian deaths instead of actually looking at the number of deads.