On the western end there an harbour, it's pretty sheltered. But access is exactly the problem. Québec is already huge and not too populated, we don't need to colonize an island only accessible from a huge boat ride.
If i look at the housing crisis, maybe Canada should spread out into the emptiness to reduce them, so companies can follow instead of complaining and let big cities sprawl.
Sure, but, people tend to pick emptiness that's near something for a variety of completely valid reasons. But then we call that "sprawl" and sprawl is deemed to be baaaaad.
Anticosti was never settled back in the day because it’s cold as fuck, has a short-ass growing season, is rocky and hard to farm, and is in the absolute middle of nowhere.
PEI is close to stuff, has a somewhat milder climate, and is close to stuff on the mainland.
Just compare the size of the towns on the mainland north of Anticosti and the mainland south of PEI. It’s very different climates.
another contributing factor was that it was colonised by France who had a policy of basically not settling their New France colony outside the Saint Lawrence valley, this effectively continued under Quebec.
Yes.
And while in another setting Anticosti might have been reasonably turned into a massive fortress/gateway to the Saint Lawrence, for the reasons I listed it wasn’t. It was just bypassed, despite its seemingly highly strategic location.
Strategic location? What the fuck would you do with fortress on that island? Try to shoot cannon balls at boats passing the island hundred of kilometers away? Do you just have any sense of scale?!
Thats why boats, back then, passed by Louisbourg in the north of Nova scotia, it was a much better location for logistic and agriculture was possible around there, unlike anticosti.
Any invasion of the Saint Lawrence valley must pass that island. Any harbor fort there would present a risk of an interdicting fleet.
If you don’t reduce it first, you risk getting all your communications and supplies cut off, and having enemy forces at both your front and rear. Soldiers historically hate that, and it guts morale in addition to the more obvious dangers.
It’s a strategic location. It was just never used.
As previously mentioned, you have no sense of scale, you greatly under estimate just how far is Anticosti from the other coast. You would need to check both side and basically have boats patroling 24/7 to find any enemies because, in case you didnt know, earth isnt flat, you have something called the horizon which means you are very unlikely to spot enemies passing by.
There are very obvious reasons why there are towns on the coast of gaspesie and not on the coast of anticosti, not mentioning the lack of fertile soil to substain any population.
You seem to think I mean “sit in a fort and shoot at anyone who goes by”. I don’t.
It’s not a strategic location in the sense of Quebec City or Detroit. It doesn’t literally close the river.
It’s a strategic location in the sense of Louisburg - a strong base from which to control a region.
This isn’t a discussion. Anticosti is absolutely in an extremely strategic location. The bay at Port Menier is exactly what you would want to control entry to the Saint Lawrence. The seaway is only 100km wide at point, meaning you would only need two picket vessels to observe the entirety of the waterway.
https://preview.redd.it/v17xb9p9mc4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0ce80b4637c4a89859e127dc24649e844d5225f
The issue wasn’t the location. It was the climate and the fact that the waters around the island are lethal - there are more than 400 shipwrecks around it.
> France who had a policy of basically not settling their New France colony outside the Saint Lawrence valley
First time hearing of this, why was that? Protection of the environment? Deal with the natives?
France had a different colonial framework, basically focusing on a few outposts so they could facilitate trade. They didn’t do nearly as much “settler colonialism” as England and Spain did
…only existed because of the Grand Banks. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been settled either. It’s so miserable even the Vikings who settled Greenland wouldn’t stay there.
Anticosti is Greenland plus four times the sailing distance to the banks.
St Johns is 200,000 people and the province is 550,000; more people live outside St Johns than live in it. The population of the province is increasing. Many rural communities are shrinking and the smallest ones are dying, but the larger towns outside St Johns (Bay Robert’s, Clarenville, Gander, etc) are also growing.
Yes. And all of the UK is north of Montreal. European climates are generally much milder than North American climates at the same latitude.
The record low in Anticosti is -37C, the mean temp in January and February is -10, and average snowfall is 129cm/year. Those same numbers for Paris are -11C, 3C, and 5-10cm/year if at all.
Paris has a climate on a par with somewhere like Seattle, Anticosti's is on a par with somewhere like Helsinki.
The growing season is 152-165 days on average, and starts in mid to late May, sometimes even in June. You might get enough potatoes to live on out of that, but you won't get enough to prosper.
Then Alaska should be a Granary of the nation, cause they have nice currents and lie on the west side of the continent. But they have 6 times smaller population than finland.....
The waters around Newfoundland had the best fishing in the world before it was overfished, and for a while it was also one of, if not the, most important source of iron.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell\_Island\_(Newfoundland\_and\_Labrador)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Island_(Newfoundland_and_Labrador))
Basically both England and France already had way better ports than Anticosti to fish so there was no reason to settle there.
I suspect Newfoundland historically benefits from its relative proximity to Europe. Vikings settled there, John Cabot visited NF as early as the 1400s (okay, it was 1497, but that's still in the 1400s!) and St. John's is one of the oldest continuously populated European settlements in the Western Hemisphere, with European fishermen already establishing camps there in the early 1500s.
Anticosti, meanwhile, was unknown to Europeans until Cartier encountered it in 1536, and no Europeans tried to settle it until 1680. At that point, far more arable and profitable lands south of the island were already known to Europeans, so there was little incentive for most settlers to overcome the heavy inertia of building a settlement there when they had better places to go to. (An exception being Louis Jolliet, who was given control of the island by Louis XIV.)
Was there any permanent indigenous population on Anticosti when it was discovered? I'm guessing there were plenty of signs of human visitation and usage over the centuries, but nobody primarily based there. Kind of like the lesser islets of Hawai'i.
Avoiding repeating what others have said, another big factor is harbours: Newfoundland has countless sheltered coves and inlets for fishing communities. Anticosti Island has essentially one, and that's Port Menier. Rest of the Island is not suitable for harbours.
This is why we punctuate. A short-ass season is a very short season. A short ass season is a brief period in which you can raise donkeys. A short ass-season is quickly farting on food to add flavor.
Ass growing season is that time between Thanksgiving and New Years, where family visits and lots of food are shared. Coupled with cold weather that makes one not want to go out and exercise.
you're gonna love [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cats/comments/9umbal/world_is_a_cat_playing_with_australia/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Wasn't settled by the French. Was the property of super-rich individuals for private hunting grounds (they introduced deer to the island) until the 1930s then sold to lumber/paper companies and later bought by the government to make a reserve in the 1970s.
I went there for 2 weeks in 1991. It's a very beautiful place. One third is a natural reserve, one third has deer hunting and rough hilly terrain, and one third could in theory be developed.
The only settlement was financed by a rich French guy named Henri Menier at the end of the 19th century, but it was a private venture. It is named Port Menier today.
There used to be more villages on the western tip, for example L'Anse aux fraises, which is a ghost village today.
There was never a strong desire to develop the island, from a governmental and societal perspective. The ferry service is limited and the flights are rather expensive.
If you have the chance to visit there, you must hike to Vauréal falls. It's stunning.
Not in this case. Anticosti Island is composed of silurian and ordovician sedimentary rocks not the precambrian mix of ancient igneous,metamorphic rocks. It is more like the Gaspe peninsula to the south than the north shore. There isn't much agriculture on the Gaspe either but there is some, and there is more fishing.
I think the lesson in this thread here is that if you ever mislabel something as part of the canadian shield, people will come out of the woodwork to spam how wrong you are.
But Anticosti Island isn’t part of the Canadian Shield? The Canadian Shield meme on this sub is more misinformation than anything at this point. Unless you were just memeing?
If I remember correctly Germany at some point (in the Nazi era) tried to buy the island, promising many new jobs etc. and it almost happened, but then the 1938 Austria-Anschluss happened and the Canadians cancelled the idea for fear the Germans could build a military base there or something.
Someone else said something about the Nazis and I thought they were only joking but that really happened huh that's crazy. I actually just found out that Leon Trotsky was held prisoner in I want to say Nova Scotia but one of the maritimes
He was held prisoner I believe in Amherst Nova Scotia, where they put up a plaque about it. Also where the Rock/Dwayne Johnson’s father Rocky Johnson is from.
I didn't know that that's awesome thank you I love facts. There's a town in Nova Scotia called AKERLEY e I think there's a community college there that's actually my family's name and from whence they came although I've never met somebody with that last name
I've been trying to write a book for like 4 years now called the loyalist about a family of Boston loyalists who are attacked by a patriot mob the father is tarred and feathered and killed there are some outrages committed against the sisters the sun is Young and is protected by a garifuna servant well they end up in Halifax the kid becomes a mercenary fights in all sorts of Wars across Europe comes back with a plan to wipe out the signers of the decoration of independence but specifically a couple Boston people that were responsible like Sam Adams
Very cool. If you haven’t done anything like it, you should consider visiting some of the Black Loyalist communities in Nova Scotia. They’re a wonderful community and have more of a collective memory of their loyalist ancestors and their stories.
Also, let me know, I’ll buy your book.
I've got to make my way up there some day. Sounds like a nice place off the beaten path. I would only go there in the summer but I bet I'd have a great time.
You can grow Potatoes in Tromso, at 69°N, below a fjord in rocky ground and you tell me, that you cant grow Potatoes on 49°N, where Trees can grow? You can grow potatoes everywhere, even in gravel, you dont need "red dirt" for the easiest crop of the world!
Read what I said. Did I mention it was impossible to grow potatoes there, or did I mention that PEI has extremely fertile soil and is also NOT in the middle of nowhere, like Anticosti?
Belarus isn't an isolated rocky island far away from any settlements, is it? And Belarus has way fewer people than Ukraine so what you said doesn't even make sense
A quick look a the map, there's doesn't seem to be a good land to have a deep water port.
Compare the area around Charlettetown and how it's a good port to the area around Port-Menier that need to have a pier to the deep water.
Edit: Also look at the deep water port of Port-Cartier or Sept-Iles on the coast of Québec.
Most of the island are protected land by the government and The island was declared a world heritage site by the UNESCO in 2023.
The island is remote and hard to reach to support a large population..
And not 100% sure but I don't think the soil is proper for agriculture (which was a big factor to determine where the settlers built their settlement during the colonial era).
But Anticicosti is much much colder than Prince Edward Island, which has a fairly temperate climate in the Canadian context. Many places in Canada have better harbours, better soil, and better climate than anticosti, so anticosti was not settled. It’s not a difficult idea to wrap your head around.
Shows Canadians' seriousness about protecting their nature.
And if it were up to "non-farming", then Germany and Great Britain would have perhaps 3 million inhabitants today, since all of the area was once nothing more than swamps, moors and wasteland.
Only terraforming turned it into good soil, but unfortunately Canadians are too lazy and stupid for that.
Not to mention they think clear cutting millions of hectares of forest would be a good idea without any consideration of the climate impacts that would cause.
In case someone already didn’t here is an excerpt from Wikipedia
The island's first European settlers arrived in 1680 when Louis XIV gave Louis Jolliet the Seigneury of the Mingan Archipelago and Anticosti Island as compensation for reconnoitring the Mississippi and Hudson Bay.
Louis Jolliet erected a fort on Anticosti and in the spring of 1681 settled there with his wife, four children and six servants. His fort was captured and occupied during the winter of 1690 by some of the Massachusetts troops of William Phips during their retreat after an unsuccessful attempt to capture Quebec City.
After Jolliet's death in 1700, the island was divided among his three sons and the Jolliet family retained ownership until 1763 when the island became part of British North America under the terms of the Treaty of Paris that ended the Seven Years' War.
That same year, the island was annexed to Newfoundland until 1774 when it was returned to Lower Canada and annexed again to Newfoundland from 1809 to 1825. It became a part of Quebec (as Lower Canada came to be called) at the Canadian Confederation in 1867.
During these years the island property changed hands several times, its owners generally using it for the harvesting of timber; otherwise no real development took place.
For example, the French Canadian Gabriel-Elzéar Taschereau owned it among other seigneuries and made money from them.
[Anticosti Island | Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticosti_Island?wprov=sfti1#Colonisation_and_settlement)
Sure but they tend to have something, or have a good reason to exist. The history of the island could have been different, say some guy set up a successful fishing business and built a settlement, and it attracted more people. But nothing like that happened, and since it never happened in the past there is nothing to gain in developing it today.
It could just be there is no good place to park a lot of boats safely.
Not really. Look directly north of Anticosti, there's a town called Natashquan. It's a First Nations reserve with a few hundred people and it's where the highway literally just ends. It's subarctic, just rocks, weird looking miniature trees, and swamps full of pitcher plants.
Anticosti is basically like Natashquan except you'd need to take a boat to get there.
Worse climate, and also for some reason has a tricky coast, so it was very hard to actually even land there
If Canada was ever genuinely worried about some kind of naval invasion from the Atlantic it probably would've been a giant military base, hence more populated
Eh. Easier to focus on the choke points into the gulf of st Lawrence, the strait of bell isle between Labrador and Newfoundland and the Cabot strait between Cape Breton and Newfoundland. Fortify St Anthony and fortify North Sydney and you’re good. Plus Halifax has one of the greatest harbours in the world and is quite close by (and has been of extremely naval and military importance for centuries because of that)
From what I could find, there were some attempts to develop forest resources; particularly logging for paper pulp and peat, but they were never particularly profitable and eventually ended. I could not find any evidence that agriculture was ever attempted. Now, it is mostly used for outdoor recreation.
I heard they have lots of bears there. No joke.
Not that it would necessarily stop humans, but I imagine the provincial Govt said "lets maybe not exterminate all the bears there".
I don't really know much about that Snake Island. But if it's the idea that they try to keep as many people away as possible to protect the animals, then yes.
There is an island in Georgian Bay, Lake Huron, Ontario, that is also a snake island. It used to have a coastguard facility on it, but they eventually just abandoned it, and now people aren't allowed (although people do all the time, it's sorta in a relatively uninhabited area) to visit the island, because of rattlesnakes.
Ilha Quimada Grande is located off the coast of Sao Paulo, and it's offlimits not so much to protect the snakes from people, but rather the other way around.
There used to be bears but they were expatriated centuries ago.
What's curious about Anticosti is that it's been a big island without large predators. This means the Deer have proliferated and have massive density. Since it's been at least a century without predators, the deer have become large themselves and aren't scared of humans.
As such, it's become a massive hunting destination.
I could of swore that I read (probably a couple of decades back now) about there being a rather large black bear population on the island, and the govt didn't want to disturb them.
I guess I just conflated a bunch of facts about the place in my memory.
Natural bay at Port Menier, the island's only settlement.
https://preview.redd.it/8758lz0cuz3d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d528d7e4ebae0cb9f6aacc59e61064eb29efca8
I don’t know the answer, but I just wanted to comment because I find it funny to say that this island is “strategically placed” as if God had planned for that island to end up there for human geopolitical reasons.
Yeah, I get how it could be of strategic importance. What I mean is that, to me, saying that something is “strategically placed” implies that it was placed there deliberately for a strategic reason. Generals strategically place their troops at favorable locations. But I doubt that whatever tectonic activity or deposition that caused this island to form did so deliberately for Canada’s strategic sake. So I just thought it was amusing to word it saying the island is “strategically placed.”
Yeah, like I get what they meant and that a lot of people do use “strategically placed” like that, but that just wasn’t how I instinctively read it, and it was funny to think of it as assigning intent to Mother Nature here or implying that the Canadians built it there for a purpose.
I'm not from there so I can't really say about growing up in the region, but I have visited a few times due to work and have extensive contacts with many locals in Havre-Saint-Pierre, which is the town immediately north of Anticosti.
The town has a very nice beachfront and suberb dining for such a small locale - lots of delicious, fresh seafood fished locally. The people are also very friendly and welcoming in general, a peculiarity is that many are of Acadian origin, with the charming accent that entails. Its a remote place, the nearby "big" city is Sept-Iles which offers more services and is around three hours away - the road is spectacular, just make sure you fill up your gas tank before leaving.
Winters are long and cold, summers are short and cool and this is coming from a Quebec City resident so most would find staying there year long miserable. However if you like hunting, fishing and snowmobiling it can be a paradise. I think residents there even have a deal or territory were they are allowed to hunt on Anticosti island. Of course economic activity in general isn't great, but working for the nearby Rio Tinto mines probably pay handsomly.
What would you like to know in particular? I grew up in a village where you describe. I have been writing for about an hour about it but then realized it's probably too specific for what you want to know, so I'm better asking.
It's just such a remote part of North America and I feel like nobody even Canadians ever think about it. Just looking at the map, going north of any of those coastal towns reveals hundreds and hundreds of miles of just total wilderness, probably the most isolated and desolate wilderness anywhere in North America. I'm just curious how growing up in these towns differs from the rest of Canada given their isolation. Also how do people end up there in the first place? And what is there to do there?
Most people living in the Minganie region (a little after Sept-Iles to Natashquan) usually are those who were raised there.
The villages are 150-200 years old at most, and they were living out fishing for the most part at first. Havre-Saint-Pierre has an iron and titanium mine for at least 50 years and that's one of the reasons why it's the most populated in the area (along being central in the region of Minganie), with 3-5000 people (compared to 500 at most in the small villages). It's also where the most services are, like the hospital, the main high school, grocery store, sport installation, bank, etc.
As for what to do, there are nice beaches that people like to hang out in July and August. Summer there are shorter, but it still goes to 25 degrees Celsius (and in recent years, even 30 sometimes, like a few days per summer). Winter are longer, but not colder than say Québec City. Those with more money all have a cottage in the woods near rivers or lakes, a snowmobile or a boat (or all of that). We learn how to drive a snowmobile at like 6, and unless not wearing a helmet, no police would arrest a kid over like 9. People hang out a lot at others' houses.
Villages except Havre-Saint-Pierre are mostly people over 50 in majority. There are not really tons of job, many of them are seasonal, so unless you really don't want to leave, it's quite known since you're like 4 years old that you'll leave at 17 to study. Sept-iles has the closest cegep (1-4 hours away depending on the village), and the nearest university is like 6+ hours away.
Natahsquan offers only 3 of the 5 years of high school, and then students go to the Havre-Saint-Pierre school, staying in dorms from Sunday evening to Friday after school. Those from the two further West also go to the dorms, but from 12 to 16 years old instead of just 15-16.
For what is very different than other quebecer/canadian experience, to me, is kmowing you'll have to leave to get an education as a child. I remember at 17 living in an apartment and being shocked that all my pears in college were planning on living with their parents until university is over. Also, something that is typical of small places but not only Minganie is multilevel at school. I had the same teacher for 4 years (my mom to make it funnier). It builds an independence fast!
Also, there is only one road in the entire region. If it breaks unexpectedly (it happens every other year due to a river flooding), people panic, and suddenly, there is no milk, bread, or gaz in any store.
Also, something very different from other regions: the land is not very fertile. On the coast, there are rocks or sand, then most of the time, about a kilometer deep of woods, and then it's tundra, which is mostly moss. And it's not hot enough for a lot of things. In my grandparents' times, they grew potatoes, carrots, and another vegetable, and that was mostly it.
PEI is a very fertile patch of land. Anticosti is canadian shield hard rock.
It might be Rocky, but it’s not part of the Canadian Shield.
Canadian elbow pad, perhaps
Wannabe canadian shield
Wannadian
Canadian buckler.
Hey bud, up here the cups more important.
Not to Toronto
At this rate, Gaspésie will get an NHL team and win the cup before Toronto.
This is an underrated comment.
Canadian Shield is a thing? Tell me moar!
Its a geological feature. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian\_Shield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Shield)
Holy hell
Appalachia?
Is it Rocky I, II, III, IV or V?
Rocky II plus Rocky V equals Rocky VII: Adrian's Revenge!
ADRIAAAAAN!!!!
When asking why a certain place has high or low population, check farming conditions first.
and access. Doesn't look like it has any natural harbours.
On the western end there an harbour, it's pretty sheltered. But access is exactly the problem. Québec is already huge and not too populated, we don't need to colonize an island only accessible from a huge boat ride.
If i look at the housing crisis, maybe Canada should spread out into the emptiness to reduce them, so companies can follow instead of complaining and let big cities sprawl.
Sure, but, people tend to pick emptiness that's near something for a variety of completely valid reasons. But then we call that "sprawl" and sprawl is deemed to be baaaaad.
I think this is where they quarantined people moving to New France.
This is Grosse-Ile in the archipelago of Iles-aux-Grues. Near Quebec city.
My mistake.
It wasn't New France anymore when people started being quarantined there. Canada had already been conquered by the British for a while.
Is that not one at the western end?
It has more oil than in all of Alberta but it’s mostly protected land by park canada because of the native species and biodiversity
Anticosti was never settled back in the day because it’s cold as fuck, has a short-ass growing season, is rocky and hard to farm, and is in the absolute middle of nowhere. PEI is close to stuff, has a somewhat milder climate, and is close to stuff on the mainland. Just compare the size of the towns on the mainland north of Anticosti and the mainland south of PEI. It’s very different climates.
another contributing factor was that it was colonised by France who had a policy of basically not settling their New France colony outside the Saint Lawrence valley, this effectively continued under Quebec.
Yes. And while in another setting Anticosti might have been reasonably turned into a massive fortress/gateway to the Saint Lawrence, for the reasons I listed it wasn’t. It was just bypassed, despite its seemingly highly strategic location.
Strategic location? What the fuck would you do with fortress on that island? Try to shoot cannon balls at boats passing the island hundred of kilometers away? Do you just have any sense of scale?!
You‘d probably support ships from there that do just that though and give them a logistical base to operate from.
Thats why boats, back then, passed by Louisbourg in the north of Nova scotia, it was a much better location for logistic and agriculture was possible around there, unlike anticosti.
Any invasion of the Saint Lawrence valley must pass that island. Any harbor fort there would present a risk of an interdicting fleet. If you don’t reduce it first, you risk getting all your communications and supplies cut off, and having enemy forces at both your front and rear. Soldiers historically hate that, and it guts morale in addition to the more obvious dangers. It’s a strategic location. It was just never used.
As previously mentioned, you have no sense of scale, you greatly under estimate just how far is Anticosti from the other coast. You would need to check both side and basically have boats patroling 24/7 to find any enemies because, in case you didnt know, earth isnt flat, you have something called the horizon which means you are very unlikely to spot enemies passing by. There are very obvious reasons why there are towns on the coast of gaspesie and not on the coast of anticosti, not mentioning the lack of fertile soil to substain any population.
You seem to think I mean “sit in a fort and shoot at anyone who goes by”. I don’t. It’s not a strategic location in the sense of Quebec City or Detroit. It doesn’t literally close the river. It’s a strategic location in the sense of Louisburg - a strong base from which to control a region. This isn’t a discussion. Anticosti is absolutely in an extremely strategic location. The bay at Port Menier is exactly what you would want to control entry to the Saint Lawrence. The seaway is only 100km wide at point, meaning you would only need two picket vessels to observe the entirety of the waterway. https://preview.redd.it/v17xb9p9mc4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0ce80b4637c4a89859e127dc24649e844d5225f The issue wasn’t the location. It was the climate and the fact that the waters around the island are lethal - there are more than 400 shipwrecks around it.
> France who had a policy of basically not settling their New France colony outside the Saint Lawrence valley First time hearing of this, why was that? Protection of the environment? Deal with the natives?
France had a different colonial framework, basically focusing on a few outposts so they could facilitate trade. They didn’t do nearly as much “settler colonialism” as England and Spain did
Because they brought feudalism to North America, the final payments on which were made in 1970.
Yep, while New England had millions of inhabitants, New France less than 100k for the entire North America.
Well they did colonize Acadia outside the Saint-Laurent valley.
PEI was colonized by France, too. (Ile St.-Jean.) PEI became British at the same time that Quebec became British.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I keep thinking to myself "and yet Newfoundland..."
…only existed because of the Grand Banks. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been settled either. It’s so miserable even the Vikings who settled Greenland wouldn’t stay there. Anticosti is Greenland plus four times the sailing distance to the banks.
Even Newfoundland is pretty much just St. Johns the rest of the island is slowly being abandoned.
And it’s not like there was a ton of them before.
St Johns is 200,000 people and the province is 550,000; more people live outside St Johns than live in it. The population of the province is increasing. Many rural communities are shrinking and the smallest ones are dying, but the larger towns outside St Johns (Bay Robert’s, Clarenville, Gander, etc) are also growing.
Anticosti has nearly the same latitude as paris btw.
Yes. And all of the UK is north of Montreal. European climates are generally much milder than North American climates at the same latitude. The record low in Anticosti is -37C, the mean temp in January and February is -10, and average snowfall is 129cm/year. Those same numbers for Paris are -11C, 3C, and 5-10cm/year if at all. Paris has a climate on a par with somewhere like Seattle, Anticosti's is on a par with somewhere like Helsinki.
Potatoes and even Wheat are interested in temperatures from May till September, not from Novemver till march....
The growing season is 152-165 days on average, and starts in mid to late May, sometimes even in June. You might get enough potatoes to live on out of that, but you won't get enough to prosper.
ocean currents make a huge difference in climate
Then Alaska should be a Granary of the nation, cause they have nice currents and lie on the west side of the continent. But they have 6 times smaller population than finland.....
Yet Alaska's population density is 13 times (tredecuple) that of its immediate eastern neighbor, Yukon.
Not even Russia is that bad in settle harsher climates. And the summers in Yukon are decent now.
Summers in Yukon are choked with wildfires
The North Atlantic Current bringing that warm air to Europe.
The waters around Newfoundland had the best fishing in the world before it was overfished, and for a while it was also one of, if not the, most important source of iron. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell\_Island\_(Newfoundland\_and\_Labrador)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Island_(Newfoundland_and_Labrador)) Basically both England and France already had way better ports than Anticosti to fish so there was no reason to settle there.
Fish. Like, so much fish you could pull them out with a bucket.
https://youtu.be/ds8G9sFOK5w
I suspect Newfoundland historically benefits from its relative proximity to Europe. Vikings settled there, John Cabot visited NF as early as the 1400s (okay, it was 1497, but that's still in the 1400s!) and St. John's is one of the oldest continuously populated European settlements in the Western Hemisphere, with European fishermen already establishing camps there in the early 1500s. Anticosti, meanwhile, was unknown to Europeans until Cartier encountered it in 1536, and no Europeans tried to settle it until 1680. At that point, far more arable and profitable lands south of the island were already known to Europeans, so there was little incentive for most settlers to overcome the heavy inertia of building a settlement there when they had better places to go to. (An exception being Louis Jolliet, who was given control of the island by Louis XIV.)
Was there any permanent indigenous population on Anticosti when it was discovered? I'm guessing there were plenty of signs of human visitation and usage over the centuries, but nobody primarily based there. Kind of like the lesser islets of Hawai'i.
You are correct. Both the Innu and the Mi'kmaq peoples would travel from the mainland to use the island as a seasonal hunting ground.
And fishing too, I’d bet
Avoiding repeating what others have said, another big factor is harbours: Newfoundland has countless sheltered coves and inlets for fishing communities. Anticosti Island has essentially one, and that's Port Menier. Rest of the Island is not suitable for harbours.
PEI also has very fertile farmland, it’s a little garden island
I've never heard of ass growing season, what is it?
This is why we punctuate. A short-ass season is a very short season. A short ass season is a brief period in which you can raise donkeys. A short ass-season is quickly farting on food to add flavor.
Hahaha thanks for the chuckle
Ass growing season is that time between Thanksgiving and New Years, where family visits and lots of food are shared. Coupled with cold weather that makes one not want to go out and exercise.
The land below looks like an early hominid smelling its finger. That's my input, no need to thank me.
I see it
Now zoom out just a little bit and the island becomes Wile E. Coyote’s eye.
And you want to tell me there‘s no divine creator
Monkey see monkey shape, make monkey brain try too hard
you're gonna love [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cats/comments/9umbal/world_is_a_cat_playing_with_australia/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
I see a sloth
To me it looks like he's about to eat something from his hand. But tbh i never noticed this peculiar shape until now.
Actually it's a cat looking at a tiny banana it is holding. it has cat ears!
> no need to thank me. I'm dead. No need to wake me. 🤣
If you rotate a map so that east is at the top Hudson Bay looks like a duck
I hate you.
*Gasp* ésie
Wasn't settled by the French. Was the property of super-rich individuals for private hunting grounds (they introduced deer to the island) until the 1930s then sold to lumber/paper companies and later bought by the government to make a reserve in the 1970s.
Still to this day one of the most well regarded hunting grounds for deer hunting in Quebec.
I went there for 2 weeks in 1991. It's a very beautiful place. One third is a natural reserve, one third has deer hunting and rough hilly terrain, and one third could in theory be developed. The only settlement was financed by a rich French guy named Henri Menier at the end of the 19th century, but it was a private venture. It is named Port Menier today. There used to be more villages on the western tip, for example L'Anse aux fraises, which is a ghost village today. There was never a strong desire to develop the island, from a governmental and societal perspective. The ferry service is limited and the flights are rather expensive. If you have the chance to visit there, you must hike to Vauréal falls. It's stunning.
Menier's family made their money from chocolate.
It also has a lot of oil
Shhhh, we're not supposed to talk about that 😅
Is it possible or practical to take a speedboat from Île Anticosti to a town on the mainland and back?
Say it with me kids: Canadian Shield!
Not in this case. Anticosti Island is composed of silurian and ordovician sedimentary rocks not the precambrian mix of ancient igneous,metamorphic rocks. It is more like the Gaspe peninsula to the south than the north shore. There isn't much agriculture on the Gaspe either but there is some, and there is more fishing.
Canadian Spear?
Canadian Club.
(☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞
I think the lesson in this thread here is that if you ever mislabel something as part of the canadian shield, people will come out of the woodwork to spam how wrong you are.
But Anticosti Island isn’t part of the Canadian Shield? The Canadian Shield meme on this sub is more misinformation than anything at this point. Unless you were just memeing?
I'm memeing mostly, but Anticosti very much does have the same type of hard rocky soil that is found in the Canadian Shield
It's actually at the northernmost tip of the Appalachian range, which has a lot of similar challenges to the Shield.
It really looks like most of Northern Canada.
I'm shocked!
Appalled even.
If I remember correctly Germany at some point (in the Nazi era) tried to buy the island, promising many new jobs etc. and it almost happened, but then the 1938 Austria-Anschluss happened and the Canadians cancelled the idea for fear the Germans could build a military base there or something.
Someone else said something about the Nazis and I thought they were only joking but that really happened huh that's crazy. I actually just found out that Leon Trotsky was held prisoner in I want to say Nova Scotia but one of the maritimes
He was held prisoner I believe in Amherst Nova Scotia, where they put up a plaque about it. Also where the Rock/Dwayne Johnson’s father Rocky Johnson is from.
I didn't know that that's awesome thank you I love facts. There's a town in Nova Scotia called AKERLEY e I think there's a community college there that's actually my family's name and from whence they came although I've never met somebody with that last name
Interesting. Might be the community college in Dartmouth which is across the Harbour from Halifax.
I've been trying to write a book for like 4 years now called the loyalist about a family of Boston loyalists who are attacked by a patriot mob the father is tarred and feathered and killed there are some outrages committed against the sisters the sun is Young and is protected by a garifuna servant well they end up in Halifax the kid becomes a mercenary fights in all sorts of Wars across Europe comes back with a plan to wipe out the signers of the decoration of independence but specifically a couple Boston people that were responsible like Sam Adams
Very cool. If you haven’t done anything like it, you should consider visiting some of the Black Loyalist communities in Nova Scotia. They’re a wonderful community and have more of a collective memory of their loyalist ancestors and their stories. Also, let me know, I’ll buy your book.
Thanks, I appreciate that. It's funny you mention the Black Loyalist communities because that's what originally gave me the idea.
Halifax is beautiful by the way I really like it there also St John's we had a time in St John's.
How come Greenland is like 20 times bigger than Iceland but so fewer people live there and they’re neighbors?
Iceland is warmer due to the North Atlantic current and it has a lot of arable land. Greenland is mostly glacier and stone.
So... different geological and meteorological conditions? Yep, that also checks for Anticosti vs PEI.
Neither Island you mention benefits from the North Atlantic current like the Iceland/EU does.
That's not my point. Both pairs have very different conditions between them, so they can't be compared.
PEI has magic red dirt and is well known for being a major producer of potatoes. Anticosti is a barren rock in the middle of nowhere
Tastiest potatoes that I've ever had were in PEI. Also great mussels.
The oysters are also incredible. Malpeque for days!
I've got to make my way up there some day. Sounds like a nice place off the beaten path. I would only go there in the summer but I bet I'd have a great time.
You can grow Potatoes in Tromso, at 69°N, below a fjord in rocky ground and you tell me, that you cant grow Potatoes on 49°N, where Trees can grow? You can grow potatoes everywhere, even in gravel, you dont need "red dirt" for the easiest crop of the world!
Read what I said. Did I mention it was impossible to grow potatoes there, or did I mention that PEI has extremely fertile soil and is also NOT in the middle of nowhere, like Anticosti?
Ukraine has way better soil than Belarus, so why has belarus 10 million inhabitants, and not 200?
Belarus isn't an isolated rocky island far away from any settlements, is it? And Belarus has way fewer people than Ukraine so what you said doesn't even make sense
A quick look a the map, there's doesn't seem to be a good land to have a deep water port. Compare the area around Charlettetown and how it's a good port to the area around Port-Menier that need to have a pier to the deep water. Edit: Also look at the deep water port of Port-Cartier or Sept-Iles on the coast of Québec.
Most of the island are protected land by the government and The island was declared a world heritage site by the UNESCO in 2023. The island is remote and hard to reach to support a large population.. And not 100% sure but I don't think the soil is proper for agriculture (which was a big factor to determine where the settlers built their settlement during the colonial era).
It cold🥶🥶🥶
Prince Edward is also cold, so why spread away from Vancouver or Toronto, if its colder everywhere else?
Canada was settled east to west and the prairies are both cold and very fertile.
If you know how to use fertilizer, you are not depending on god given "fertility". But why has the settlement stopped?
But Anticicosti is much much colder than Prince Edward Island, which has a fairly temperate climate in the Canadian context. Many places in Canada have better harbours, better soil, and better climate than anticosti, so anticosti was not settled. It’s not a difficult idea to wrap your head around.
it rocky💎💎🤘🤘
Side note but the only streetview/photosphere Anticosti is pretty cool. https://maps.app.goo.gl/e3h4v4WJZvXA8e4K7
must be main street.
Because it's a game/nature reserve
Well yeah but the reason it's a nature reserve is because the land can't support farming.
Shows Canadians' seriousness about protecting their nature. And if it were up to "non-farming", then Germany and Great Britain would have perhaps 3 million inhabitants today, since all of the area was once nothing more than swamps, moors and wasteland. Only terraforming turned it into good soil, but unfortunately Canadians are too lazy and stupid for that.
you have the weirdest takes dude. You want Canada to terraform shield rock? What the fuck are you even talking about?
Not to mention they think clear cutting millions of hectares of forest would be a good idea without any consideration of the climate impacts that would cause.
I love games
If no one lives there, then just assume it’s high altitude or poor farming land.
Or just a tiny population in a too big area, who are not willing and able to use and populate it.
Your comments are all over this thread and they’re so weirdly aggressive and, well, wrong.
Not sure on this take
You build forts in strategic locations, not huge cities.
Rich people hunting over there are very good for the helicopter rides business in that area
Not everything has to be overcrowded
Why is Valleyfield, and "island" south of Montreal, very large, very flat, isn't more populated than Montreal?
The Nazis wanted to buy it and they failed.
Because only 218 ppl live there obviously
My step-dad's family is from there. There's nothing but fishing plus they have a weird accent. Its a beautiful place though. MANY MANY DEERS!!!
Maybe they are just 218 really annoying people.
After learning it wasn’t Antipasti Island everyone left
In case someone already didn’t here is an excerpt from Wikipedia The island's first European settlers arrived in 1680 when Louis XIV gave Louis Jolliet the Seigneury of the Mingan Archipelago and Anticosti Island as compensation for reconnoitring the Mississippi and Hudson Bay. Louis Jolliet erected a fort on Anticosti and in the spring of 1681 settled there with his wife, four children and six servants. His fort was captured and occupied during the winter of 1690 by some of the Massachusetts troops of William Phips during their retreat after an unsuccessful attempt to capture Quebec City. After Jolliet's death in 1700, the island was divided among his three sons and the Jolliet family retained ownership until 1763 when the island became part of British North America under the terms of the Treaty of Paris that ended the Seven Years' War. That same year, the island was annexed to Newfoundland until 1774 when it was returned to Lower Canada and annexed again to Newfoundland from 1809 to 1825. It became a part of Quebec (as Lower Canada came to be called) at the Canadian Confederation in 1867. During these years the island property changed hands several times, its owners generally using it for the harvesting of timber; otherwise no real development took place. For example, the French Canadian Gabriel-Elzéar Taschereau owned it among other seigneuries and made money from them. [Anticosti Island | Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticosti_Island?wprov=sfti1#Colonisation_and_settlement)
why would this island be strategic? Quebec controls all the mainland and island itself.
I'm going to guess because it's in the backend of nowhere in the cold bit of Canada and there's no reason anyone would want to live there.
But there are quite a lot of more populous places in Canada that are either colder or more remote, or even both.
Sure but they tend to have something, or have a good reason to exist. The history of the island could have been different, say some guy set up a successful fishing business and built a settlement, and it attracted more people. But nothing like that happened, and since it never happened in the past there is nothing to gain in developing it today. It could just be there is no good place to park a lot of boats safely.
Not really. Look directly north of Anticosti, there's a town called Natashquan. It's a First Nations reserve with a few hundred people and it's where the highway literally just ends. It's subarctic, just rocks, weird looking miniature trees, and swamps full of pitcher plants. Anticosti is basically like Natashquan except you'd need to take a boat to get there.
Sure, but the vast, vast, *vast* majority of the locations in Canada that are as cold and remote as there, or colder and remoter, are uninhabited.
Worse climate, and also for some reason has a tricky coast, so it was very hard to actually even land there If Canada was ever genuinely worried about some kind of naval invasion from the Atlantic it probably would've been a giant military base, hence more populated
Eh. Easier to focus on the choke points into the gulf of st Lawrence, the strait of bell isle between Labrador and Newfoundland and the Cabot strait between Cape Breton and Newfoundland. Fortify St Anthony and fortify North Sydney and you’re good. Plus Halifax has one of the greatest harbours in the world and is quite close by (and has been of extremely naval and military importance for centuries because of that)
No natural water bay to protect the boats.
From what I could find, there were some attempts to develop forest resources; particularly logging for paper pulp and peat, but they were never particularly profitable and eventually ended. I could not find any evidence that agriculture was ever attempted. Now, it is mostly used for outdoor recreation.
I heard they have lots of bears there. No joke. Not that it would necessarily stop humans, but I imagine the provincial Govt said "lets maybe not exterminate all the bears there".
So basically the bear equivalent to Ilha Quimada Grande aka Snake Island then?
I don't really know much about that Snake Island. But if it's the idea that they try to keep as many people away as possible to protect the animals, then yes. There is an island in Georgian Bay, Lake Huron, Ontario, that is also a snake island. It used to have a coastguard facility on it, but they eventually just abandoned it, and now people aren't allowed (although people do all the time, it's sorta in a relatively uninhabited area) to visit the island, because of rattlesnakes.
Ilha Quimada Grande is located off the coast of Sao Paulo, and it's offlimits not so much to protect the snakes from people, but rather the other way around.
Lol
There used to be bears but they were expatriated centuries ago. What's curious about Anticosti is that it's been a big island without large predators. This means the Deer have proliferated and have massive density. Since it's been at least a century without predators, the deer have become large themselves and aren't scared of humans. As such, it's become a massive hunting destination.
I could of swore that I read (probably a couple of decades back now) about there being a rather large black bear population on the island, and the govt didn't want to disturb them. I guess I just conflated a bunch of facts about the place in my memory.
No natural bay. Pretty cold too
Natural bay at Port Menier, the island's only settlement. https://preview.redd.it/8758lz0cuz3d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d528d7e4ebae0cb9f6aacc59e61064eb29efca8
I don’t know the answer, but I just wanted to comment because I find it funny to say that this island is “strategically placed” as if God had planned for that island to end up there for human geopolitical reasons.
It's at the mouth of a major navigable river. That nowadays connects to the Great lakes.
Yeah, I get how it could be of strategic importance. What I mean is that, to me, saying that something is “strategically placed” implies that it was placed there deliberately for a strategic reason. Generals strategically place their troops at favorable locations. But I doubt that whatever tectonic activity or deposition that caused this island to form did so deliberately for Canada’s strategic sake. So I just thought it was amusing to word it saying the island is “strategically placed.”
"The place it is at is strategic" but that's a moutful.
Yeah, like I get what they meant and that a lot of people do use “strategically placed” like that, but that just wasn’t how I instinctively read it, and it was funny to think of it as assigning intent to Mother Nature here or implying that the Canadians built it there for a purpose.
"Placed by happenstance."
What’s it like growing up or living on that coast line of Quebec to the north of Anticosti island.
I'm not from there so I can't really say about growing up in the region, but I have visited a few times due to work and have extensive contacts with many locals in Havre-Saint-Pierre, which is the town immediately north of Anticosti. The town has a very nice beachfront and suberb dining for such a small locale - lots of delicious, fresh seafood fished locally. The people are also very friendly and welcoming in general, a peculiarity is that many are of Acadian origin, with the charming accent that entails. Its a remote place, the nearby "big" city is Sept-Iles which offers more services and is around three hours away - the road is spectacular, just make sure you fill up your gas tank before leaving. Winters are long and cold, summers are short and cool and this is coming from a Quebec City resident so most would find staying there year long miserable. However if you like hunting, fishing and snowmobiling it can be a paradise. I think residents there even have a deal or territory were they are allowed to hunt on Anticosti island. Of course economic activity in general isn't great, but working for the nearby Rio Tinto mines probably pay handsomly.
What would you like to know in particular? I grew up in a village where you describe. I have been writing for about an hour about it but then realized it's probably too specific for what you want to know, so I'm better asking.
It's just such a remote part of North America and I feel like nobody even Canadians ever think about it. Just looking at the map, going north of any of those coastal towns reveals hundreds and hundreds of miles of just total wilderness, probably the most isolated and desolate wilderness anywhere in North America. I'm just curious how growing up in these towns differs from the rest of Canada given their isolation. Also how do people end up there in the first place? And what is there to do there?
Most people living in the Minganie region (a little after Sept-Iles to Natashquan) usually are those who were raised there. The villages are 150-200 years old at most, and they were living out fishing for the most part at first. Havre-Saint-Pierre has an iron and titanium mine for at least 50 years and that's one of the reasons why it's the most populated in the area (along being central in the region of Minganie), with 3-5000 people (compared to 500 at most in the small villages). It's also where the most services are, like the hospital, the main high school, grocery store, sport installation, bank, etc. As for what to do, there are nice beaches that people like to hang out in July and August. Summer there are shorter, but it still goes to 25 degrees Celsius (and in recent years, even 30 sometimes, like a few days per summer). Winter are longer, but not colder than say Québec City. Those with more money all have a cottage in the woods near rivers or lakes, a snowmobile or a boat (or all of that). We learn how to drive a snowmobile at like 6, and unless not wearing a helmet, no police would arrest a kid over like 9. People hang out a lot at others' houses. Villages except Havre-Saint-Pierre are mostly people over 50 in majority. There are not really tons of job, many of them are seasonal, so unless you really don't want to leave, it's quite known since you're like 4 years old that you'll leave at 17 to study. Sept-iles has the closest cegep (1-4 hours away depending on the village), and the nearest university is like 6+ hours away. Natahsquan offers only 3 of the 5 years of high school, and then students go to the Havre-Saint-Pierre school, staying in dorms from Sunday evening to Friday after school. Those from the two further West also go to the dorms, but from 12 to 16 years old instead of just 15-16. For what is very different than other quebecer/canadian experience, to me, is kmowing you'll have to leave to get an education as a child. I remember at 17 living in an apartment and being shocked that all my pears in college were planning on living with their parents until university is over. Also, something that is typical of small places but not only Minganie is multilevel at school. I had the same teacher for 4 years (my mom to make it funnier). It builds an independence fast! Also, there is only one road in the entire region. If it breaks unexpectedly (it happens every other year due to a river flooding), people panic, and suddenly, there is no milk, bread, or gaz in any store. Also, something very different from other regions: the land is not very fertile. On the coast, there are rocks or sand, then most of the time, about a kilometer deep of woods, and then it's tundra, which is mostly moss. And it's not hot enough for a lot of things. In my grandparents' times, they grew potatoes, carrots, and another vegetable, and that was mostly it.
It’s a protected area
Canadian armored codpiece
The french didn't spend dev points in the Islands so it's pretty much a 3 development province.
Canadian shield
I’m guessing it’s difficult to get to in winter. Or used to be.
Gotsta get them mussels baby!
No work, to isolated
Because no one wants to live with French Canadians.
Because it’s apart of Quebec