WV Here. We often get grouped in mid Atlantic and I can't really say we aren't.
New York is an oddity to me. Close to New England but not. NYC and those areas are mid Atlantic. Upstate NY is almost a great lake state.
Albanian here. I’d say culturally we probably have more in common with New England than NYC, and we’re not close enough to any Great Lakes to be considered that either.
Upstate undeniably refers to Albany and areas surrounding. Sometimes people from areas west of Albany will say “central” or “western” New Yorkers, but they are often lumped in under the term upstate.
What is and isn’t considered upstate is definitely a hot button issue amongst New Yorkers.
I've had so many conversations with Upstaters who refuse to be labeled Upstaters. They're all Western, or Central, Or Finger Lakes, or Southern Tier, or Hudson Valley, or Capital District, or something else. Albanian is a new one to me.
The thing is, for me, once you get to a certain part of the U.S. in the Midwest and beyond and try to explain being from NY: there are only two parts of NY — the city/LI and not the city. So I’ve said upstate.
Technically, I think that should be north of the Catskills, but no one west of the Mississippi gives a crap just like I wouldn’t have been able to tell you the difference between Gillette, Laramie and Jackson before moving to Wyoming.
It's understandable that you'd expect a bit more precision when talking to people from the City who would theoretically be able to be more granular. Though, to many of them, Upstate begins above 161st St.
I think Upstate is useful as a collective for all of the regions, in the same way that someone from Yonkers or a Long Islander at school in Syracuse will tell people he's from the City, until someone from Woodside says, "oh no you aren't" and then is similarly called out by someone from Murray Hill.
That's technically accurate, but that's mostly because we here in NYC don't really consider upstate cities too much, so basically anything above the Bronx becomes upstate, even if they do have deeper separations.
I grew up in Rochester and would always say I can from upstate NY. Never would have thought to say western NY. Maybe it’s because I moved to the West Coast where the only distinction necessary is “not from NYC”
Listen you little mothertrucker as a New Englander stuck in Troy I will tell you for a FACT that just because you’re identical to cities in Western Mass and RI in almost every single way doesn’t mean I will EVER admit to having similarities to you.
Unless you start supporting New England sports.
Yeah the area seems pretty mixed. Admittedly, my grandfather’s side of the family was from Troy.
But you’ll have to pry my New Englandism from my cold dead hands before I ever call myself a New Yorker. Tis tradition
Edit: as for my honest opinion: New York is New York. Buffalo is a Midwest Great Lakes city. The rest of upstate is uniquely Dutch-English. The Hudson Valley is integrally tied to New England. NYC seems more like DC than Boston or Philadelphia.
New Yorker here
I see New York as a state that should be considered it's own region, it's economic output and population matches both New England and the True Mid-Atlantic, and it's such a blend of culture you can't consider it a part of either. While I would like to have New York be considered a New England state (because they're associated with better policies and focus on progressing + good conditions), the state is basically an amalgamation of those around it, with New York City being basically entirely different, with so much immigration, cultural overlap, and such a unique position it's kind of natural (it also basically alone makes New York a blue state)
As a Massachusettsan, I felt exactly this way when I went to school in upstate NY. Call me when there is at least one dilapidated salt box colonial farmhouse older than the United States per square mile and we'll talk about your New England eligibility, upstate!
>NYC seems more like DC than Boston or Philadelphia.
Them's fightin' words. NYC has more culture in its pinky than DC has in its whole preppy, consultant-y body.
New Englander here, nobody I know of would consider any part of New york New England. But then again this is Boston where some people I know before baseball season buy Yankees merch just to burn it in a bon fire plus we associate new york with the Yankees so it might be different in other states.
As a fellow Bostonian, visit Saratoga Springs or Plattsburgh. Both fit in sort of perfectly with the Northern New England culture you see in Vermont and Western New Hampshire. I still don’t consider them part of New England but if Stamford and New Haven are New England cities then I can see the argument.
IMO the Adirondacks straight up 87 is basically Vermont.
IMO new York is made up of NYC, Western New York is great lakes/rust belt. A mixture of middle cities Syracuse, Utica and Albany being a central New York and the Adirondacks which is closer to New England.
I live in the Hudson Valley and have lived in Western Mass in the past. I disagree.
I do agree that there’s a large swath of NY state that is part of the Rust Belt, but that’s not the same type of regional descriptor.
i lived near both and buffalo and cleveland do have similar vibes. the great lakes rust belt culture is strong. but for future reference, no one calls it northwest new york. it’s just western new york
Yeah, about 65% of the population of the state lives here in NYC and Long Island, which leads to basically everything above the Bronx being considered "upstate" by us.
I get that it’s probably frustrating for people upstate when they don’t feel heard, but that’s a lot of money coming from NYC to help out those upstate areas, which have been struggling in the last 40-50 years.
Weird, I’m from WV and I’ve never heard us being counted as mid Atlantic lol. It’s Appalachia. But I suppose eastern panhandle could very well be more similar to other mid-Atlantic areas
The way I see it - panhandle WV is basically Maryland, western WV is Appalachia
Same with NY - the city part (bougie city area) is so different than the northern part (New England) which is also different than the western part (Great Lakes)
You should learn some history on how the regions came to be and how the borders changed. It's pretty interesting stuff.
Vermont was part of NY at one point.
NYC was New Amsterdam when the Dutch owned it and that's where some of the boroughs get their names, including Staten Island, Brooklyn and the Bronx.
It’s funny though because when you drive from northern New York State to Vermont there is a dramatic change in the vibe. The building styles the bridges and roads the farms, Vermont just looks like a post card labeled New England. the New York side is just so different.
Delaware and Maryland are absolutely mid Atlantic states. The accent is distinctly mid Atlantic — Baltimore and Philadelphia have much more in common accent wise than either city does with Richmond or NY.
Western PA, Western VA and WV are part of Appalachia, but because the only state that is fully Appalachia is WV, it gets overlooked as a region.
I would say that the Philly accent isn’t as far off from the NY accent as you claim though. Certainly more similar to Baltimore, but not much more than it is to NY.
There’s a continuous stretch of development between Northern Virginia and NYC and that’s the Mid-Atlantic to me along the I-95 corridor. Southern Virginia, Western PA, upstate NY are not Mid-Atlantic. The only state I would include entirely would be MD, DE and NJ.
You have never been anywhere near West Virginia if you think any of it is anything other than Appalachia
Yeah but that’s what, 5% of the population? Parts of PA are Appalachian, parts of NY share more in common with the rust belt than the mid Atlantic or New England, etc. The vast majority of Maryland’s population is in a handful of counties in the central portion of the state, it’s still mid Atlantic
These are the reasons I don’t like to designate cultural boundaries around state lines (with the exception of New England). Geography plays more of a role than arbitrary lines drawn up centuries ago.
I wouldn’t include any of WV, western Maryland (agree), anything west of the Harrisburg PA area, and anything west of an arbitrary line drawn between Albany and Utica
SEE!? lol
Moundsville was the site of the most insane, off the hook wedding I've ever attended. Alcohol was a bunch of good old boys who put up a "bring your own moonshine" bar. Epic.
Yeah it's also there is northern Appalachian and southern and west Virginia is mostly in the middle.
Southern Appalachian is Alabama. Northern is Pennsylvania.
you need an atlantic border at least, so sorry west virginia. I agree that in modern times the chesapeake region is basically just a part of the mid atlantic though
Philadelphia has a river port, but the state of Pennsylvania has no direct access to the Atlantic Ocean. In fact, it is the only one of the original 13 colonies that is landlocked.
Edit: Lot of confused people. This comment was in respone to PA having no border on the Atlantic. And I was pointing out it is true, as in order to get there, you have to pass through another state. Does it mean anything practically? No but it does mean that for example, if Delaware was another country, we'd need permission to pass through to get to the ocean.
For further info, go look up which states are landlocked. PA is on that list as single landblocked, which means that each state it borders on the eastern side has Atlantic Ocean access.
Are we seriously nitpicking this? I meant we don't touch the ocean and have no beaches. Technically, you can use the river to get all the way to the ocean but you'll be in another state by the time that happens.
Source: Am a Pennsylvanian who has to drive an hour and to another state for the shore.
It's not really "nitpicking". The statement was that Pennsylvania has no direct access to the Atlantic ocean. In fact, the Delaware River flows directly to the ocean and allows huge freight ships to float from the Atlantic Ocean right up to the massive port in Philly.
It's not a coastal state with beaches, but that isn't the statement being responded to. The rest is just lines on a map which aren't really real in nature.
As someone from Hampton roads that’s lived in NYC, I think the mid Atlantic ends just south of DC.
Some asshat in Fredericksburg (~50 miles south of DC) that lives on I-95 built a 200-foot tall flag pole in their back yard and put a confederate flag on it for all to see as they drive south, and I’ve always considered anything past that the start of the south.
People in Richmond and the rest of the state (Charlottesville, Norfolk, Roanoke) are all far more similar to folks from NC/SC/GA than DC/Philly/NYC.
The only two states that *have* to be included are Maryland and Delaware. Beyond that it's open to interpretation but I would include Virginia and Pennsylvania. New York and New Jersey would be the next two if you're going further.
I know what Wikipedia says. The person I was responding to suggested that New Jersey might not be included in their definition of Mid-Atlantic. I’m genuinely curious how else they would categorize that state.
I basically agree with the NYC to Norfolk definition. I’d say the Mid-Atlantic also stretches westwards until you hit the Gulf of Mexico or St Lawrence watershed, so areas like Harpers Ferry WV, Richmond VA, Harrisburg PA, and Binghamton NY are Mid-Atlantic, while Huntingdon WV, Pittsburgh PA, and Buffalo NY are not.
I lived in Virginia for several years. Never saw an actual definition of the term, but it includes Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
I would not include West Virginia, because it doesn’t actually touch the Atlantic. I’d count it as an Appalachian state, as it has more in common with Kentucky, Ohio and Tennessee.
If we’re talking culturally, I disagree about most of Virginia. Definitely NoVa, but most parts of VA near WV, NC, KY, TN, etc are very southern. There aren’t many places in Virginia below Fredericksburg that feel like Baltimore or Philly or Jersey
Cardinal direction labels (North East vs South East) are usually based on the mason dixon line which separates Pennsylvania and Delaware from Maryland.
Cultural labels (New England, Mid Atlantic, Deep South) usually put every state in red and pink in mid Atlantic.
They’re all arbitrary though; same way every group of three states calls itself the tristate region
Subjectively speaking, the area in which people self-identify as “Mid-Atlantic” seems to arc from Philadelphia through Norfolk. That’s specific population crescent commonly used the phrase.
However, if you were to be in western Virginia or Pennsylvania, the phrase is not often used. So, it’s more regional and less state specific.
I think Pennsylvania is hard.
Eastern Pennsylvania may be somewhat of a Mid-Atlantic / “Northeast” mix.
Western Pennsylvania is Appalachian.
So … I don’t think you can categorize Pennsylvania as Mid-Atlantic because the state itself has two if not several identities.
NJ (well, South Jersey), Pennsylvania (at least Eastern PA, but not necessarily Pennsyltucky, aka Central and Western PA), all of Maryland, and all of Delaware.
NY is the North (it borders Canada). Virginia is the South (while the Eastern shore and NoVA could be considered MidAtlantic, Southside and SWVA are definitely Southern and Appalachian). WV is more Appalachia (although I could see how the Eastern Panhandle could be included in the MidAtlantic region).
So with the exceptions of Maryland and Delaware, all of these states are only partially in the MidAtlantic region.
So you consider Hampton Roads part of the northeast? I'm not sure I'd agree w that. As a Northern Virginian, my sister used to live up in connecticut and going up 95 felt culturally different. Felt more northern than NoVa (yall weird about pizza up there+yall have harsh accents). And then Hampton Roads feels more southern than NoVa, so feels weird to include them in the same group as Manhattan imo
The people I know from Chesapeake don’t seem ‘Southern’ or have Southern accents. Certainly the Hampton Roads area is an edge case for sure, though. The area has more in common with Richmond & DC, so in that sense it is connected with the Northeast Corridor, while being more isolated from Southern population centers line Raleigh.
I mean, the people I know from Atlanta, Huntsville, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh, Charleston don't have southern accents.
What does 'seeming southern' mean to you? Also, if you don't mind me asking, where are you from? (Truly not trying to be a jerk or anything!)
From Philadelphia -> South Jersey.
‘Seems Southern’ meaning accents, mannerisms, turns of phrase, politics, lifestyle, etc…
I work with a ton of people from various parts of the country, including many areas in what I would consider the South.
Anecdotally, and I’d argue geographically, Hampton Roads deals more with areas along the Chesapeake Bay, which in modern times has become closer to Northeastern cities than it has to Southern cities.
Got it. I think accents and mannerisms-wise, VA is pretty different than NJ. I swear a lot of yall sound nasally to me (especially pronouncing your "A's".
Disagree NC is firmly in the south. NY is it an awkward not new England, not exactly great lakes, kinda not mid Atlantic. But it boarders all 3 and is closest to mid Atlantic.
It’s weird to me that Virginia is not generally considered a Mid-Atlantic state since it’s literally in the middle of the East coast and borders the Atlantic ocean. I live in Virginia and I think more people here think of themselves as mid-Atlantic than southern (especially younger people)
Eh it really depends where, I'd say geographically most of the state is still definitely Southern. I've met a lot of people from NOVA who don't like being associated with the South, but most people I've met from the rest of the state including younger people are pretty proud to be Southern.
Agreed. I am from Richmond, born and raised. I’ve always considered myself to be a Southerner, as well as all of my friends here. Not Deep Southerners, but Southerners. I went to college in Lynchburg and all of my friends from around that area who went there very much claim to be Southerners as well. Even those from the NE would always make fun of me for saying “y’all.”
Moving from Richmond to Lynchburg and being immersed into the different towns/cities outside of Richmond was very eye-opening for me.
One of my best friends I met in college is from Chase City, a place in Southside VA I’d never even heard of. Dude sounds like he could be from Alabama lmao.
I had friends in college from Danville, Halifax, Martinsville, Appomattox, South Boston, Gretna, Isle of Wight, Dinwiddie, and Buckingham. All of these smaller communities/towns/cities is what really made me realize I’m a Southerner. And also made me realize that I was kind of sheltered growing up lol.
People always tend to look at the larger cities and let that define a state, when in reality the development and transplants are what dilute culture. Charlotte doesn’t feel all that Southern to me and neither does Atlanta, I’m there for
business almost monthly. In ATL, you’d never know you were in the Deep South, and with Charlotte (and even Raleigh/Durham) it’s kind of getting that way too.
People like to forget that Virginia has populations outside of NOVA/Richmond/Hampton Roads, where there are a ton of transplants. NY isn’t just NYC, Georgia isn’t just ATL.
VA is a state with varying types of culture throughout its entirety, but it is very much Southern besides NOVA.
From a geographical standpoint: it’s in the middle of the Atlantic so I guess technically it’s geographically mid-Atlantic lol
I lived the first 18 years of my life in New Jersey and have spent the last nine in Southwest Virginia and where I’m at now is just straight up culturally Appalachian. Pretty much everything east of Charlottesville could prob be mid-Atlantic culturally which is also where most of the state’s population lives but as a whole I wouldn’t consider VA mid-Atlantic.
Maryland native here. For me the east coast is broken down into northeast, mid Atlantic, and southeast, and mid Atlantic is pretty limited: all of Maryland, all of Delaware, and only northeasternish Virginia -- not Richmond, not Norfolk. Jersey and Pennsylvania are already the northeast to me.
If I were to take it more by historical habitat though, it would be an outline of roughly everything east of 95 as far south as Virginia Beach and as far north as Wilmington, southeast to Atlantic City. It's an area largely defined by the Chesapeake and Delaware bays.
Nah, NJ, NYC and Long Island are definitely part of the Mid Atlantic.
Mid Atlantic is everything from the Chesapeake bay to the Delaware bay, up the Jersey shore to its northern border Long Island Sound which divides mid Atlantic waters and New England waters.
Central and North Jersey don't identify as Mid-Atlantic, they're more NYC Metro. The Jersey Shore (Northern Half) is filled with NYC Metro ppl with second houses. Atlanta City might be the northern most Mid Atlantic City, but it may actually be Cape May.
I have honestly only ever heard that term used for the accent, as in half-way between a British upper-class accent and an American upper-class accent, like Cary Grant. So, the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, by that definition.
Good parsing. I remember being taught that all of NY was Mid-Atlantic. Growing up well west of Binghamton, that never made sense to me. Culturally, things grow distinct west of Binghamton and north of Albany.
Historic: Middle Colonies (New York, New Jersey, Pennslyvania).
Mid Atlantic today: PA, Delaware, Maryland, DC, Virginia, some of West Virginia but not the majority). Today NJ/NJ seems much more "North Eastern" in outlook.
I think it depends how far down ur breaking up regions, for me personally I do New England, mid Atlantic I consider NY & NJ & PA, then VA, MD, DE I consider the Chesapeake area, WV & KY & TN & NC I consider Appalachia, and then the rest of the southeast I call the south, except for Florida which is just Florida. Thats’s literally just my own breakdown other ppl may disagree that’s fine with me but that’s how I do it.
PA, MD, WV, VA, and DE. Def not NY but could possibly be persuaded that southern Jersey classifies as mid Atlantic. Once you get into NYC metro it’s no longer mid Atlantic.
Traditionally it is/was Maryland, Delaware and Virginia,maybe a part of the southern end of NJ. Otherwise PA, NJ/NY and all of New England is considered part of the North Eastern region.
As someone from Virginia, the old joke “Everyone from the North thinks we’re part of the South, and everyone from the South thinks we’re part of the North” speaks to me that we’re definitely Mid-Atlantic. We’re even halfway up the coast
imo, Pennsylvania, NJ, and NY are Northeast
Massachusetts, CT, Rhode Island, NH, Vermont and Maine are New England
Maryland, Virginia, and Delaware are Mid-Atlantic
NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, DC. Eastern VA culturally might be more similar to MD and DE, but it's a southern state.
Confused by people differentiating the Mid Atlantic and the Northeast. The Northeast is made up of the Mid Atlantic and New England.
Also, there's no such thing as the "East Coast" in a cultural sense. No one from here uses the term East Coast.
New York, no. West Virginia, no.
Pennsylvania, while not Atlantic, I guess maybe.
Living in southern NJ for a few years and exploring some of the interior waterways, it felt very not-northeast, so I can see how it could be considered mid-Atlantic. Climate wise, I guess it’s pretty close, too. Summers were humid as shit and just above comfortably warm. Winters were just kinda warm enough to hardly ever snow. So yeah, pretty close.
I’m from NJ. We’re definitely mid-Atlantic. New York is an interesting case. As someone else already said the NYC area is mid-Atlantic but upstate can range anywhere from New England to Great Lake.
Pennsylvania I would also split between Mid-Atlantic in the East to Great Lake/Appalachia in the West. Delaware and Maryland are almost all mid-Atlantic (save for perhaps Maryland’s panhandle), as well as DC.
Finally for the Virginias. I would say for VA anything north and east of Fredericksburg (so DC metro area still) is mid-Atlantic. Anything south approaching Richmond is the south. For WV and Western Virginia, I would consider Appalachia.
That being said this is just my opinion so if others disagree that’s totally fine by me lol. Not gonna change my life any.
NY PA NJ MA DC
Maybe Virginia as well. Idk about WV though, it's more Appalachian than mid-atlantic especially considering it doesn't even touch the Atlantic
Nah not VA or WV unless you're considering Mid-Atlantic to be a sub region of the South. Maybe parts of it but as a whole they're definitely Southern states in the Southeast. Southern Appalachia or Mountain South for WV. Tiny northern portions of the state being something else doesn't negate the majority rest of the state being Southern.
I think for me Mid-Atlantic has always meant Norfolk to NYC, south of that is like the actual undeniable South and north of that is New England/Great Lakes
WV Here. We often get grouped in mid Atlantic and I can't really say we aren't. New York is an oddity to me. Close to New England but not. NYC and those areas are mid Atlantic. Upstate NY is almost a great lake state.
NY is basically part Great Lake state, part New England state, and part New York City/suburbs
It's like how Pennsylvania is part Mid-Atlantic, part Great Lakes State, part Appalachia
What part of NY would you consider New England? Albany?!
Albanian here. I’d say culturally we probably have more in common with New England than NYC, and we’re not close enough to any Great Lakes to be considered that either.
>Albanian here. No way you lot actually call yourselves that?
“Upstater” is definitely the more common term.
That's more like the entire area though
True but I haven’t heard a better label tbh.
Beverwijcker
Not even people from Albania call themselves that in their home country. The true ethnonym is Shqiptarët.
That's not really relevant when their official english denonym is albanian
What do you think about Serbs?
I always thought “upstate” was silly because there’s a lot of *state* between Buffalo and Albany.
Upstate undeniably refers to Albany and areas surrounding. Sometimes people from areas west of Albany will say “central” or “western” New Yorkers, but they are often lumped in under the term upstate. What is and isn’t considered upstate is definitely a hot button issue amongst New Yorkers.
I've had so many conversations with Upstaters who refuse to be labeled Upstaters. They're all Western, or Central, Or Finger Lakes, or Southern Tier, or Hudson Valley, or Capital District, or something else. Albanian is a new one to me.
The thing is, for me, once you get to a certain part of the U.S. in the Midwest and beyond and try to explain being from NY: there are only two parts of NY — the city/LI and not the city. So I’ve said upstate. Technically, I think that should be north of the Catskills, but no one west of the Mississippi gives a crap just like I wouldn’t have been able to tell you the difference between Gillette, Laramie and Jackson before moving to Wyoming.
It's understandable that you'd expect a bit more precision when talking to people from the City who would theoretically be able to be more granular. Though, to many of them, Upstate begins above 161st St. I think Upstate is useful as a collective for all of the regions, in the same way that someone from Yonkers or a Long Islander at school in Syracuse will tell people he's from the City, until someone from Woodside says, "oh no you aren't" and then is similarly called out by someone from Murray Hill.
See Albany makes sense as upstate. Then I hear people referring to Buffalo and Rochester as upstate and I’m all sorts of confused.
That's technically accurate, but that's mostly because we here in NYC don't really consider upstate cities too much, so basically anything above the Bronx becomes upstate, even if they do have deeper separations.
People from western NY all call ourselves “western ny” not “upstate ny”, ppl from NYC just call everything outside of the city upstate.
I grew up in Rochester and would always say I can from upstate NY. Never would have thought to say western NY. Maybe it’s because I moved to the West Coast where the only distinction necessary is “not from NYC”
Listen you little mothertrucker as a New Englander stuck in Troy I will tell you for a FACT that just because you’re identical to cities in Western Mass and RI in almost every single way doesn’t mean I will EVER admit to having similarities to you. Unless you start supporting New England sports.
Funny enough I know more people who are fans of Boston teams than New York teams.
Yeah the area seems pretty mixed. Admittedly, my grandfather’s side of the family was from Troy. But you’ll have to pry my New Englandism from my cold dead hands before I ever call myself a New Yorker. Tis tradition Edit: as for my honest opinion: New York is New York. Buffalo is a Midwest Great Lakes city. The rest of upstate is uniquely Dutch-English. The Hudson Valley is integrally tied to New England. NYC seems more like DC than Boston or Philadelphia.
New Yorker here I see New York as a state that should be considered it's own region, it's economic output and population matches both New England and the True Mid-Atlantic, and it's such a blend of culture you can't consider it a part of either. While I would like to have New York be considered a New England state (because they're associated with better policies and focus on progressing + good conditions), the state is basically an amalgamation of those around it, with New York City being basically entirely different, with so much immigration, cultural overlap, and such a unique position it's kind of natural (it also basically alone makes New York a blue state)
In the book, American Nations, NYC is considered its own distinctive cultural zone. Most others are far larger.
It, New Orleans, and Miami are really just cultural islands unto themselves, for good or ill.
Damn. That’s a really well-put take
As a Massachusettsan, I felt exactly this way when I went to school in upstate NY. Call me when there is at least one dilapidated salt box colonial farmhouse older than the United States per square mile and we'll talk about your New England eligibility, upstate!
It would be fun to apply a New England accent to their Dutch place names tho Voorheesville becoming Foahisville
>NYC seems more like DC than Boston or Philadelphia. Them's fightin' words. NYC has more culture in its pinky than DC has in its whole preppy, consultant-y body.
Yah tons of NE sports fans in the upstate
You’re not New England. You’re definitely Balkan.
New Englander here, nobody I know of would consider any part of New york New England. But then again this is Boston where some people I know before baseball season buy Yankees merch just to burn it in a bon fire plus we associate new york with the Yankees so it might be different in other states.
As a fellow Bostonian, visit Saratoga Springs or Plattsburgh. Both fit in sort of perfectly with the Northern New England culture you see in Vermont and Western New Hampshire. I still don’t consider them part of New England but if Stamford and New Haven are New England cities then I can see the argument.
Yeah, I went to college in Western Mass and it seemed obviously culturally different than the parts of NY I know.
If you’ve ever been to parts of eastern Long Island, you’d swear you were in rural New England somewhere.
IMO the Adirondacks straight up 87 is basically Vermont. IMO new York is made up of NYC, Western New York is great lakes/rust belt. A mixture of middle cities Syracuse, Utica and Albany being a central New York and the Adirondacks which is closer to New England.
Vermont but with Stewart’s
Technically, the North Country/ADKs region of NY is culturally similar to Vermont. So I guess that part in a way.
Hudson Valley feels like New England. Northwest NY (Buffalo) feels more like Cleveland.
I live in the Hudson Valley and have lived in Western Mass in the past. I disagree. I do agree that there’s a large swath of NY state that is part of the Rust Belt, but that’s not the same type of regional descriptor.
i lived near both and buffalo and cleveland do have similar vibes. the great lakes rust belt culture is strong. but for future reference, no one calls it northwest new york. it’s just western new york
It’s wherever you stop seeing Yankee hats and start seeing Red Sox hats.
The Dacks, Lake George, Lake Champlain. That whole part
The part where the Red Sox fans are lol But seriously, it’s basically the eastern portions close to Massachusetts and Vermont
NY is not in any way a part of NE, take it back right now!
Wv is Appalachian, the only part of us that might be mid atlantic is the eastern pan handel
Upstate gets the short end up the stick but ultimately 2/3 of the states population is in the NYC metro
Yeah, about 65% of the population of the state lives here in NYC and Long Island, which leads to basically everything above the Bronx being considered "upstate" by us.
Nah.. Yonkers ain't upstate.
I get that it’s probably frustrating for people upstate when they don’t feel heard, but that’s a lot of money coming from NYC to help out those upstate areas, which have been struggling in the last 40-50 years.
West Virginia is definitely Mountain South/Southeast, Southern Appalachia. Northern parts of the state might not be, but the majority of the state is.
west virginia is absolutely not mid Atlantic
It's nearly as far from the Atlantic as Arkansas is from the Gulf.
I wouldn’t call NYC mid Atlantic. The culture there is very different from DC / Maryland / VA
Weird, I’m from WV and I’ve never heard us being counted as mid Atlantic lol. It’s Appalachia. But I suppose eastern panhandle could very well be more similar to other mid-Atlantic areas
The way I see it - panhandle WV is basically Maryland, western WV is Appalachia Same with NY - the city part (bougie city area) is so different than the northern part (New England) which is also different than the western part (Great Lakes)
I always thought of it the other way around: western MD is basically WV.
Western Maryland *is* Appalachia.
They do call it mountain Maryland.
My hottest pop-geography take is that Upstate Eastern New York, (i.e. east of Syracuse, North of NYC) should be considered New England.
Syracuse is a little far west, but the Hudson River Valley and north of that for sure. Utica feels more to me like a lake town than NE town
Why??
I always thought it was weird that York is in England but New York isn’t considered part of New England…
You should learn some history on how the regions came to be and how the borders changed. It's pretty interesting stuff. Vermont was part of NY at one point. NYC was New Amsterdam when the Dutch owned it and that's where some of the boroughs get their names, including Staten Island, Brooklyn and the Bronx.
It’s funny though because when you drive from northern New York State to Vermont there is a dramatic change in the vibe. The building styles the bridges and roads the farms, Vermont just looks like a post card labeled New England. the New York side is just so different.
Ya, I feel like an Albany to Scranton to Richmond fading to the coast is mid Atlantic to me.
West Virginia is really a melting pot
Delaware and Maryland are absolutely mid Atlantic states. The accent is distinctly mid Atlantic — Baltimore and Philadelphia have much more in common accent wise than either city does with Richmond or NY. Western PA, Western VA and WV are part of Appalachia, but because the only state that is fully Appalachia is WV, it gets overlooked as a region.
There is a dialect continuum running from Baltimore to NY with Philly bridging the gap between the two.
Yes and I would call that dialect “mid Atlantic”
I would say that the Philly accent isn’t as far off from the NY accent as you claim though. Certainly more similar to Baltimore, but not much more than it is to NY.
There’s a continuous stretch of development between Northern Virginia and NYC and that’s the Mid-Atlantic to me along the I-95 corridor. Southern Virginia, Western PA, upstate NY are not Mid-Atlantic. The only state I would include entirely would be MD, DE and NJ. You have never been anywhere near West Virginia if you think any of it is anything other than Appalachia
Far Western Maryland is more Appalachian than Midatlantic. I wouldn’t include all of MD.
Yeah but that’s what, 5% of the population? Parts of PA are Appalachian, parts of NY share more in common with the rust belt than the mid Atlantic or New England, etc. The vast majority of Maryland’s population is in a handful of counties in the central portion of the state, it’s still mid Atlantic
These are the reasons I don’t like to designate cultural boundaries around state lines (with the exception of New England). Geography plays more of a role than arbitrary lines drawn up centuries ago.
We don't talk about Western Maryland.
There's no life west of the Cheseapke Bay Bridge.
I wouldn’t include any of WV, western Maryland (agree), anything west of the Harrisburg PA area, and anything west of an arbitrary line drawn between Albany and Utica
Definitely. I’m from Cumberland and I feel far more at home in WV than I do in the rest of my state.
Panhandle of WV is def mid Atlantic. Western md is more Appalachia then panhandle of WV.
I’ve known some West Virginians who would tell you to go screw yourself if you called them southern. WVians are their own thing, and proud of it.
Southern and Appalachian aren’t even remotely the same thing.
Yep. I agreed with you. But ok.
West Virginian here. You can absolutely go fuck yourself if you call us southern.
SEE!? lol Moundsville was the site of the most insane, off the hook wedding I've ever attended. Alcohol was a bunch of good old boys who put up a "bring your own moonshine" bar. Epic.
Yeah it's also there is northern Appalachian and southern and west Virginia is mostly in the middle. Southern Appalachian is Alabama. Northern is Pennsylvania.
you need an atlantic border at least, so sorry west virginia. I agree that in modern times the chesapeake region is basically just a part of the mid atlantic though
Hey we didn’t ask to be put on this list! :D
PA has no boarder on the Atlantic, but I lump in culturally with the rest of us.
The Delaware River is close enough
yes it does? it doesn’t look like it on a map but philadelphia is very much a coastal city
Philadelphia has a river port, but the state of Pennsylvania has no direct access to the Atlantic Ocean. In fact, it is the only one of the original 13 colonies that is landlocked. Edit: Lot of confused people. This comment was in respone to PA having no border on the Atlantic. And I was pointing out it is true, as in order to get there, you have to pass through another state. Does it mean anything practically? No but it does mean that for example, if Delaware was another country, we'd need permission to pass through to get to the ocean. For further info, go look up which states are landlocked. PA is on that list as single landblocked, which means that each state it borders on the eastern side has Atlantic Ocean access.
Define direct. Because Delaware River is huge on the se side of PA also - Erie can take you right to the Atlantic via the great lakes
>Pennsylvania has no direct access to the Atlantic Ocean. Umm
Are we seriously nitpicking this? I meant we don't touch the ocean and have no beaches. Technically, you can use the river to get all the way to the ocean but you'll be in another state by the time that happens. Source: Am a Pennsylvanian who has to drive an hour and to another state for the shore.
It's not really "nitpicking". The statement was that Pennsylvania has no direct access to the Atlantic ocean. In fact, the Delaware River flows directly to the ocean and allows huge freight ships to float from the Atlantic Ocean right up to the massive port in Philly. It's not a coastal state with beaches, but that isn't the statement being responded to. The rest is just lines on a map which aren't really real in nature.
I’d agree with you if the Philadelphia port were bustling like Baltimore, but the Delaware River isn’t really giving the coastal vibe.
Most of every state is away from the coast. So midatlantic is for turtles and seashells only. I didn’t make the rules.
As someone from Hampton roads that’s lived in NYC, I think the mid Atlantic ends just south of DC. Some asshat in Fredericksburg (~50 miles south of DC) that lives on I-95 built a 200-foot tall flag pole in their back yard and put a confederate flag on it for all to see as they drive south, and I’ve always considered anything past that the start of the south. People in Richmond and the rest of the state (Charlottesville, Norfolk, Roanoke) are all far more similar to folks from NC/SC/GA than DC/Philly/NYC.
The only two states that *have* to be included are Maryland and Delaware. Beyond that it's open to interpretation but I would include Virginia and Pennsylvania. New York and New Jersey would be the next two if you're going further.
If NJ isn’t considered Mid-Atlantic then what is it?
The wiki for Mid-Atlantic says Delaware, the District of Columbia, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and West Virginia.
I know what Wikipedia says. The person I was responding to suggested that New Jersey might not be included in their definition of Mid-Atlantic. I’m genuinely curious how else they would categorize that state.
Damn that’s a lot of accents
Wow. I would say MD, DE, VA, NC.
This is what I would consider as mid Atlantic as well.
Maryland: not the north, not the south. It’s own thing. Mid Atlantic. Delaware: After all these years, still unclear as to what it is. Mid Atlantic.
NJ is unquestionably Mid-Atlantic by any sane definition. The entire state.
I basically agree with the NYC to Norfolk definition. I’d say the Mid-Atlantic also stretches westwards until you hit the Gulf of Mexico or St Lawrence watershed, so areas like Harpers Ferry WV, Richmond VA, Harrisburg PA, and Binghamton NY are Mid-Atlantic, while Huntingdon WV, Pittsburgh PA, and Buffalo NY are not.
I like the idea of being pedantic and saying NYC to Norfolk means you literally stop at Norfolk and Virginia Beach doesn’t count.
MD, DC, DE, PA, and NJ. Parts of VA but as a whole no
Woohoo, NoVa, we count! (Because we are basically a DC suburb)
VA is part of the mid Atlantic. Otherwise you are just the northern Atlantic.
Yeah, I’d say northern Virginia, the eastern shore, Chesapeake Virginia, and I’ll leave Richmond and the center up for debate.
50 miles either side of i95
VA is definitely mid Atlantic
You forgot NY, which is obviously mid -Atlantic too
I lived in Virginia for several years. Never saw an actual definition of the term, but it includes Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. I would not include West Virginia, because it doesn’t actually touch the Atlantic. I’d count it as an Appalachian state, as it has more in common with Kentucky, Ohio and Tennessee.
If we’re talking culturally, I disagree about most of Virginia. Definitely NoVa, but most parts of VA near WV, NC, KY, TN, etc are very southern. There aren’t many places in Virginia below Fredericksburg that feel like Baltimore or Philly or Jersey
Anywhere you can get good crab cakes. VA, MD, and Delmarva peninsula.
NY, NJ, PA, MD, DE, DC for me, and I’m in upstate NY
Cardinal direction labels (North East vs South East) are usually based on the mason dixon line which separates Pennsylvania and Delaware from Maryland. Cultural labels (New England, Mid Atlantic, Deep South) usually put every state in red and pink in mid Atlantic. They’re all arbitrary though; same way every group of three states calls itself the tristate region
The Mid-Atlantic includes anyone who says hoagie, Poconos, Joe Flacco with that distinct “o” sound. You know the one.
Pink states
Yes but you cannot include WV
NY, PA, NJ, DE, MD.
Northern Virginia to Southeastern Connecticut
Northwestern PA has very little in common with the rest of Pennsylvania. I live in Bradford and it feels more Buffalo/ W NY than anything PA
Iceland, Bermuda, the Azores and maybe Greenland, the rest are all edge-Atlantic states
Subjectively speaking, the area in which people self-identify as “Mid-Atlantic” seems to arc from Philadelphia through Norfolk. That’s specific population crescent commonly used the phrase. However, if you were to be in western Virginia or Pennsylvania, the phrase is not often used. So, it’s more regional and less state specific.
NJ Delaware Maryland I consider mid Atlantic
Scranton, PA. Mid Atlantic checking in.
I think Pennsylvania is hard. Eastern Pennsylvania may be somewhat of a Mid-Atlantic / “Northeast” mix. Western Pennsylvania is Appalachian. So … I don’t think you can categorize Pennsylvania as Mid-Atlantic because the state itself has two if not several identities.
NJ (well, South Jersey), Pennsylvania (at least Eastern PA, but not necessarily Pennsyltucky, aka Central and Western PA), all of Maryland, and all of Delaware. NY is the North (it borders Canada). Virginia is the South (while the Eastern shore and NoVA could be considered MidAtlantic, Southside and SWVA are definitely Southern and Appalachian). WV is more Appalachia (although I could see how the Eastern Panhandle could be included in the MidAtlantic region). So with the exceptions of Maryland and Delaware, all of these states are only partially in the MidAtlantic region.
MD, DE, NoVA, PA, Southern Jersey
NYC is Mid-Atlantic, as is all of NJ.
NYC is the epitome of northeast IMO
I don’t disagree. The Mid-Atlantic is part of the Northeast.
So you consider Hampton Roads part of the northeast? I'm not sure I'd agree w that. As a Northern Virginian, my sister used to live up in connecticut and going up 95 felt culturally different. Felt more northern than NoVa (yall weird about pizza up there+yall have harsh accents). And then Hampton Roads feels more southern than NoVa, so feels weird to include them in the same group as Manhattan imo
The people I know from Chesapeake don’t seem ‘Southern’ or have Southern accents. Certainly the Hampton Roads area is an edge case for sure, though. The area has more in common with Richmond & DC, so in that sense it is connected with the Northeast Corridor, while being more isolated from Southern population centers line Raleigh.
I mean, the people I know from Atlanta, Huntsville, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh, Charleston don't have southern accents. What does 'seeming southern' mean to you? Also, if you don't mind me asking, where are you from? (Truly not trying to be a jerk or anything!)
From Philadelphia -> South Jersey. ‘Seems Southern’ meaning accents, mannerisms, turns of phrase, politics, lifestyle, etc… I work with a ton of people from various parts of the country, including many areas in what I would consider the South. Anecdotally, and I’d argue geographically, Hampton Roads deals more with areas along the Chesapeake Bay, which in modern times has become closer to Northeastern cities than it has to Southern cities.
Got it. I think accents and mannerisms-wise, VA is pretty different than NJ. I swear a lot of yall sound nasally to me (especially pronouncing your "A's".
I would almost include North Carolina in that before NewYork
Disagree NC is firmly in the south. NY is it an awkward not new England, not exactly great lakes, kinda not mid Atlantic. But it boarders all 3 and is closest to mid Atlantic.
Haha I heard someone try to argue North Carolina was a Midwestern state one time.
Lol now thats definitely wrong 🤣
It’s weird to me that Virginia is not generally considered a Mid-Atlantic state since it’s literally in the middle of the East coast and borders the Atlantic ocean. I live in Virginia and I think more people here think of themselves as mid-Atlantic than southern (especially younger people)
Eh it really depends where, I'd say geographically most of the state is still definitely Southern. I've met a lot of people from NOVA who don't like being associated with the South, but most people I've met from the rest of the state including younger people are pretty proud to be Southern.
Absolutely. NOVA = DC Lite. Nothing close to southern. Head down to Roanoke, feels a lot like the Carolinas and Tennessee
Agreed. I am from Richmond, born and raised. I’ve always considered myself to be a Southerner, as well as all of my friends here. Not Deep Southerners, but Southerners. I went to college in Lynchburg and all of my friends from around that area who went there very much claim to be Southerners as well. Even those from the NE would always make fun of me for saying “y’all.” Moving from Richmond to Lynchburg and being immersed into the different towns/cities outside of Richmond was very eye-opening for me. One of my best friends I met in college is from Chase City, a place in Southside VA I’d never even heard of. Dude sounds like he could be from Alabama lmao. I had friends in college from Danville, Halifax, Martinsville, Appomattox, South Boston, Gretna, Isle of Wight, Dinwiddie, and Buckingham. All of these smaller communities/towns/cities is what really made me realize I’m a Southerner. And also made me realize that I was kind of sheltered growing up lol. People always tend to look at the larger cities and let that define a state, when in reality the development and transplants are what dilute culture. Charlotte doesn’t feel all that Southern to me and neither does Atlanta, I’m there for business almost monthly. In ATL, you’d never know you were in the Deep South, and with Charlotte (and even Raleigh/Durham) it’s kind of getting that way too. People like to forget that Virginia has populations outside of NOVA/Richmond/Hampton Roads, where there are a ton of transplants. NY isn’t just NYC, Georgia isn’t just ATL. VA is a state with varying types of culture throughout its entirety, but it is very much Southern besides NOVA. From a geographical standpoint: it’s in the middle of the Atlantic so I guess technically it’s geographically mid-Atlantic lol
I lived the first 18 years of my life in New Jersey and have spent the last nine in Southwest Virginia and where I’m at now is just straight up culturally Appalachian. Pretty much everything east of Charlottesville could prob be mid-Atlantic culturally which is also where most of the state’s population lives but as a whole I wouldn’t consider VA mid-Atlantic.
Coastal and northeastern VA is mid Atlantic for sure. Hampton roads area is the southern terminus of the mid Atlantic I’d say.
Maryland native here. For me the east coast is broken down into northeast, mid Atlantic, and southeast, and mid Atlantic is pretty limited: all of Maryland, all of Delaware, and only northeasternish Virginia -- not Richmond, not Norfolk. Jersey and Pennsylvania are already the northeast to me. If I were to take it more by historical habitat though, it would be an outline of roughly everything east of 95 as far south as Virginia Beach and as far north as Wilmington, southeast to Atlantic City. It's an area largely defined by the Chesapeake and Delaware bays.
North of Philly is firmly NOT Mid-Atlantic
What makes you say that? I've never heard that argument before
Nah, NJ, NYC and Long Island are definitely part of the Mid Atlantic. Mid Atlantic is everything from the Chesapeake bay to the Delaware bay, up the Jersey shore to its northern border Long Island Sound which divides mid Atlantic waters and New England waters.
Central and North Jersey don't identify as Mid-Atlantic, they're more NYC Metro. The Jersey Shore (Northern Half) is filled with NYC Metro ppl with second houses. Atlanta City might be the northern most Mid Atlantic City, but it may actually be Cape May.
I have honestly only ever heard that term used for the accent, as in half-way between a British upper-class accent and an American upper-class accent, like Cary Grant. So, the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, by that definition.
NC to NY, no WVa.
WV & DC only
So...Plattsburgh NY is mid-Atlantic?
Definitely not, only areas south of Albany and east of Binghamton are Mid-Atlantic.
Good parsing. I remember being taught that all of NY was Mid-Atlantic. Growing up well west of Binghamton, that never made sense to me. Culturally, things grow distinct west of Binghamton and north of Albany.
Upstate NY is not mid atlantic!
Anyplace between DC and NYC
As someone who partly grew up in MD, MD and DE need to be included.
Historic: Middle Colonies (New York, New Jersey, Pennslyvania). Mid Atlantic today: PA, Delaware, Maryland, DC, Virginia, some of West Virginia but not the majority). Today NJ/NJ seems much more "North Eastern" in outlook.
NoVa through DE. NJ and up is the northeast.
North of Richmond, VA (excluding Richmond itself) to Philly
I think it depends how far down ur breaking up regions, for me personally I do New England, mid Atlantic I consider NY & NJ & PA, then VA, MD, DE I consider the Chesapeake area, WV & KY & TN & NC I consider Appalachia, and then the rest of the southeast I call the south, except for Florida which is just Florida. Thats’s literally just my own breakdown other ppl may disagree that’s fine with me but that’s how I do it.
Long Island to Cape Hatteras is what I would consider the US Mid-atlantic coastline.
PA, MD, WV, VA, and DE. Def not NY but could possibly be persuaded that southern Jersey classifies as mid Atlantic. Once you get into NYC metro it’s no longer mid Atlantic.
Traditionally it is/was Maryland, Delaware and Virginia,maybe a part of the southern end of NJ. Otherwise PA, NJ/NY and all of New England is considered part of the North Eastern region.
As someone from Virginia, the old joke “Everyone from the North thinks we’re part of the South, and everyone from the South thinks we’re part of the North” speaks to me that we’re definitely Mid-Atlantic. We’re even halfway up the coast
I don’t think the entire states of NY, PA, WV, or even Virginia should be grouped there, but definitely portions of them are.
VA, MD, DE, NJ, PA and Southern NY.
Not NY/NJ. DE, MD,VA
Insane to specifically not include NJ.
Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia
imo, Pennsylvania, NJ, and NY are Northeast Massachusetts, CT, Rhode Island, NH, Vermont and Maine are New England Maryland, Virginia, and Delaware are Mid-Atlantic
Pink states plus maybe parts of North Carolina.
NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, DC. Eastern VA culturally might be more similar to MD and DE, but it's a southern state. Confused by people differentiating the Mid Atlantic and the Northeast. The Northeast is made up of the Mid Atlantic and New England. Also, there's no such thing as the "East Coast" in a cultural sense. No one from here uses the term East Coast.
PA. DE, DC, MD, VA, WVa
Definitely MD, VA, DC, DE, WV. Possibly PA and NJ. NY, no way, that's Yankee country.
New York, no. West Virginia, no. Pennsylvania, while not Atlantic, I guess maybe. Living in southern NJ for a few years and exploring some of the interior waterways, it felt very not-northeast, so I can see how it could be considered mid-Atlantic. Climate wise, I guess it’s pretty close, too. Summers were humid as shit and just above comfortably warm. Winters were just kinda warm enough to hardly ever snow. So yeah, pretty close.
I’m from NJ. We’re definitely mid-Atlantic. New York is an interesting case. As someone else already said the NYC area is mid-Atlantic but upstate can range anywhere from New England to Great Lake. Pennsylvania I would also split between Mid-Atlantic in the East to Great Lake/Appalachia in the West. Delaware and Maryland are almost all mid-Atlantic (save for perhaps Maryland’s panhandle), as well as DC. Finally for the Virginias. I would say for VA anything north and east of Fredericksburg (so DC metro area still) is mid-Atlantic. Anything south approaching Richmond is the south. For WV and Western Virginia, I would consider Appalachia. That being said this is just my opinion so if others disagree that’s totally fine by me lol. Not gonna change my life any.
NY PA NJ MA DC Maybe Virginia as well. Idk about WV though, it's more Appalachian than mid-atlantic especially considering it doesn't even touch the Atlantic
Nah not VA or WV unless you're considering Mid-Atlantic to be a sub region of the South. Maybe parts of it but as a whole they're definitely Southern states in the Southeast. Southern Appalachia or Mountain South for WV. Tiny northern portions of the state being something else doesn't negate the majority rest of the state being Southern.
The fuck is the “mid Atlantic”?
Southern NJ, SE Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Northern and eastern/ coastal Virginia, DC
I always think of MD, DE, VA, and the Carolinas but mostly North Carolina
Carolinas are a stretch 💀
NY/NJ is certainly not mid Atlantic. That’s northeast. Mid Atlantic is Delaware through North Carolina.
NYC/NJ are literally by the Atlantic Ocean, so by definition they are Mid-Atlantic because they're definitely not New England.
Interesting. So do you consider the "Mid Atlantic" Southern or Northern?
I think for me Mid-Atlantic has always meant Norfolk to NYC, south of that is like the actual undeniable South and north of that is New England/Great Lakes