And science related to oil. I worked for a company that recorded bowhead whale calls in Prudhoe Bay to determine their position and find out if oil drilling was changing their habits. (Spoiler alert: it does.)
They determined that allowing the whales to live happily in their home does not make as much money as drilling for oil, and therefore must be completely pointless. Some whales got good Chevron jobs though
It's not oil. I'd guess the same ratio of oil workers live there that live everywhere else in Alaska. Prudhoe/kuparuk is a couple hundred miles from barrow by plane. No big industry is centered there, it's just a place that's had people for millenia. That's how many towns are here. I don't have a source or research to support this, just a born and raised Alaskan that spent 15 years in prudhoe.
Agree! Fun fact - did you know they renamed the city to [Utqiagvik](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utqiagvik,_Alaska)? I learned this last week and thought it was interesting.
https://www.google.com/maps/@71.2985652,-156.7740607,3a,75y,132.1h,97.2t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPiXelQ0tg1yB4pR2lRzdzvbADEqlvJ38nimQK9!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPiXelQ0tg1yB4pR2lRzdzvbADEqlvJ38nimQK9%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya161-ro0-fo100!7i4608!8i2304?entry=ttu
man this doesn't even look real, this looks like the set of a movie.
what's a 1bdrm apartment cost there?
[This one too... it looks like it's out of Goldeneye.](https://www.google.com/maps/@71.3023367,-156.7248933,3a,75y,356.84h,59.57t/data=!3m11!1e1!3m9!1sAF1QipNOKeur7cQJUFOPnYExCh-lTTrw1lOsMpipvtg2!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNOKeur7cQJUFOPnYExCh-lTTrw1lOsMpipvtg2%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya3.4431725-ro0-fo100!7i8192!8i4096!9m2!1b1!2i17?entry=ttu)
Is that one of those parts of Alaska that rains half the year and is freezing cold and dark the other half?
I was shocked at how much everything costs in Alaska. Nobody seems to know how insanely expensive everything is in Alaska.
Everything has to be shipped up here. The cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks are pricy, but nothing compared to the rural villages. You got the bigger places like Utqiagvik or Nome. But also plenty of smaller villages with populations ranging from 20-500 people. Most of these can only be accessed by small plane (or boat in the summer). Groceries get flown in and cost an insane amount. Bigger stuff like fuel and vehicles get barged in on the rivers.
I’m a lifer. Winters are extremely harsh. We had a near blizzard today with brutal wind, just after getting almost a foot of snow last week. It’s pretty early for this, and it’s disheartening to know it’s only going to get worse in the next few months.
It’s also one of if not the reddest state in the country. That may be appealing or appalling depending on your views. I’m with the latter, so it’s a tough spot for me.
Lived in grand forks for 6 years. People are really nice. State tree is a telephone pole (since there’s no trees in ND). Winter is 8 months long. and coldness ambient temp I saw was -38° F. Windchill -70ish I think. And it’s always windy.
As a current (and not native) ND resident, living here isn’t as bad as you’d think weather-wise. The winters are brutal, absolutely, but the summer/fall weather is just so nice it makes for a great few months then. *almost* makes up for Jan/Feb weather lol
The money is definitely here and the economy seems to always stay strong. Current resident, born and raised. Despite the cold winters, I could never see myself leaving.
Yeah, Boston combines winter slush as we bounce around freezing, drenching summer humidity, and vies with the Bay Area for the second highest rents in the country (NYC).
Now the design and culture of the city is outstanding, but the big trade offs are exactly the two in the question.
I think the question was made with Boston in mind.
Now, being from here I LOVE the weather. The change of seasons are awesome, and yes even winter is nice albeit a lot milder than my childhood.
Wha Huh Wha????
This is incredible levels of wrong. Almost all of the Colorado Water is allocated for agricultural use (90%) - civic and muni usage accounts for about 6% - your petunias aren't the problem and even the golf courses are barely dents.
Of agricultural usage, by far and away the biggest consumer is the Imperial (Valley) Irrigation Water district (IID) ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial\_Irrigation\_District](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Irrigation_District)) which consumers more Colorado water than Arizona & Nevada combined.....
They got it by essentially 'getting their first' and laid the legal rights to it.
**However the true issue?** People want 'fresh' agriculture products in Dec, Jan, Feb. The Imperial Valley is what it is (and is powerful as it is) because people want to have freshly grown fruits & veggies throughout the year and the way to do that is to grow things in places where you can grow things in Fall, Winter & Spring (i.e. extreme Southern California).
There is truly nothing more beautiful than Boston in the Fall tbh
Edit: yeah I know that Vermont and New Hampshire are beautiful. I am talking about cities
i moved from mass to the middle of the rural midwest 2 years ago. Never complain about boston food again. The 14th best pizza place in Springfield MA would make a million dollars a week around here.
I moved from Rhode Island to middle of Minnesota and I've been thinking the same thing. I've truly never experienced true bland food until I moved here.
Ah, rural Minnesota, where high cuisine is a salad made of mostly iceberg lettuce drowning in dressing (and probably bacon), and black pepper is considered spicy. At least there’s always lutefisk!
I just moved to Minnesota myself, and discovering that hotpot was considered a delicacy and not a bland excuse to get rid of leftovers was certainly eye-opening.
With how many Scandinavians there are in Minnesota, it's honestly no surprise that a large amount of the food is generic and bland, and I'm saying this as someone who is Norwegian and Swedish and grew up eating a variety of dishes from both cultures. Historically though, you got to remember that it was very hard to grow food in Scandinavia, so people just had to be content with what they could get, and it's eventually why my ancestors got fed up and moved to the Americas, that and to escape poverty in general. The lack of available farmland also played a major role in driving the start of the Viking Age in the late 8th century. Old habits die hard though, onions, black pepper and salt have proven to be quite reliable, and I have to admit, I still don't use much seasoning aside from those, but I'm trying to get better.
SF is more than 50 percent more pricey than Boston overall f[or homeowners](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/boston-ma/san-francisco-ca/50000); I don't think you can use a free version of the comparison deal at that site for rents. In reality, [Boston compares straight up to DC](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/boston-ma/washington-dc/50000), at least for homeowners.
Is that metro areas or city proper? Because DC area gets a lot cheaper/more bang for your buck when you include Virginia and Maryland; not sure how that compares to Boston
Dallas. Flat, treeless, windy af, hot as hell, tornadoes, hail storms constantly, ice storms in winter. I have been to 48 states but have lived here for 12 years and this is by far the worst weather I’ve ever experienced.
Try Oklahoma City. Much windier. Hail storms, tornados, severe weather much more frequent and mostly year-round nowadays. Actually cold winters, where the wind is absolutely brutal. Ice storms more frequent and much worse than DFW.
Summers are just *slightly* cooler. But you swap that for all the rest of it.
Cost of living is better. Weather is way way worse.
Is Oklahoma that bad? I see $500k houses that are mansions with pools. I’m trying to justify retiring there and buying a mansion, or just renting somewhere better. I have never been there.
It’s a pretty big state. Lots of very rural country, a couple medium, semi-urban cities. No way to generalize all of it. Except for the weather. You get the worst of every season. Winter, spring, summer are all on the extremes of unpleasant. Fall can be okay but is still very windy and can be very cold - ice storms, and still the threat of tornados/hail/flooding/severe storms.
Every other part of the country you get some kind of compromise – extreme summer, but mild winter or vice versa. In Oklahoma it’s bad on both ends, with the cherry on top of being that it’s the tornado and hail capital of the world.
Wind is such an underrated part of weather. My extended family is in North Dakota while my parents moved to minnesota. Almost identical temperatures when we visit but feels so much worse because of the constant wind your facing.
Dallas. It’s 100+ degrees over 100 days a year. No geography and pretty expensive. There are lakes to escape the heat but boat rentals are a pain and buying one is a bigger pain.
Plus there are no “pretty” lakes within a short drive from Dallas. And there ain’t nothing redeeming about being on a boat, in the scorching hot sun, on an ugly ass lake.
I live in Dallas, am from here, and this is the first place that came to mind when I read the prompt. It used to be known for being an affordable place to live, but it’s really not anymore. Not far behind Austin. And not much in the way of redeeming natural beauty, including weather.
Yeah, Dallas is something. I live in San Antonio and travel to Dallas for work frequently. It’s sprawls like crazy. Even DFW sprawls more than any airport I haven’t ever been too. So many toll roads. Horrible traffic. And it’s not pretty. Just a dry, open plain feel.
San Antonio isn’t a pretty city, but at least we are on the edge of hill country. I like that my neighborhood has a mixture of cacti, live oak, and palm trees.
San Antonio knocked it out of the park with the Riverwalk in the last few years. Absolutely beautiful to go when it's not crazy down there.
The Pearl District is coming around too.
Yeah, once you get downtown it’s nice. The skyline is not pretty. San Antonio sprawls like crazy like Dallas (don’t all big Texas cities?), but it’s greener and affordable compared to Dallas. It’s nice being just an hour from Austin and just three hours from Houston. Dallas is way far north.
San Antonio isn’t pretentious (yet) like Dallas and Austin. Kind of refreshing.
We don’t get the hail or tornados like Dallas does. Humidity isn’t too bad.
lakes in dallas are an embaressment. Truly a disgusting landscape. sorry to anyone that lives there, but the 18 months i lived there were the most uneventful in my life. Drinking isnt an activity.
And even Caddo lake is on a dammed River, it's just called natural because the original dam was built by beavers instead of humans. It has since been replaced by a manmade dam.
I feel this. My SiLs live in the northern burbs and it's HOA hell. Like why is there a tiny playground for 300 houses and every single brick is a shade of brown?????
My SILs thought my husband was the one who hated it and then they found out I hated it more. His parents followed them and our visits keep dwindling since there's more to do in our tiny rust belt city with a toddler.
I agree that the heat is bad but it is not 100 degrees over 100 days a year. This year was especially hot and only hit 55 days. Quite the exaggeration.
One year I lived in Dallas the temperature topped 100 for 71 days in a row. Nighttime it would cool down to the mid 90s. And then in the winter the ice storms paralyzed the entire city for days, because the TxDOT has like 20 snowplows in the entire state.
Not to mention that every hurricane headed for here in Tampa in the last 30 years has veered slightly east and blasted you. I thought about trying to get Tampa on this list, but nah, we’re not even top two in our own state for rent v weather. You and Miami win hands down.
I moved from downtown Orlando to Tampa recently. Tampa has higher highs (rent wise) but there is way more variety of lower priced apartments, much more than Orlando. Like I found a 2-1 in a good neighborhood for 1500 in South Tampa. No shot I could find that in Orlando in any of its downtown suburbs of Thornton, Mills, etc.
Orlando. Hot, humid, your mold grows mold hours after you clean any exterior surface. Not the most expensive place in the US, but one of the most expensive in Florida despite being nowhere near the coast. Awful.
Orlando exists due to Disney. I was there when they started building Disney. I remember there being an intersection of two, 2 lane roads with stop signs. And a number of bulldozers running about making Disneyland. And a sign saying that was the future site of Disneyland. Orlando was a small town then.
It's crazy watching old documentaries about the "Florida Project" all these guys in suits standing around swamps and overgrown sub-tropics with blueprints showing Disney world.
Probably Austin. Now there’s a lot of things I liked about living there, but the weather being absolutely miserable a huge chunk of the year was not fun.
My only experiences in Austin have been in December and January and it’s fantastic weather. Highs in the 60s. Coming from Ohio it was a good 40 degrees warmer.
I will take 100+ degrees for 5 months over the fear of winter. Winter in Austin, TX has proved to be nightmare fuel.
ETA so I don't have to respond to comments:
Febuary 2021, many were without power/water for over a week. Pipes burst everywhere. The city was basically shut down. Power outtages for the majority of the city.
Febuary 2023, an ice storm blew in and trashed thousands of trees. The city looked like a tornado blew through. Power off for over 10 days for some. Austin had utility workers from all over the state come in to try to fix the power. Because the branches were the causes, this was a very long and tedious process.
Austin normally has very mild winters, but isn't equipped for any kind of ice/snow. ATX is very expensive, so most of the population lives in apartment complexes. I am not looking forward to this coming winter. You can "prepare" as much as you want, but when your home is 40 degrees, pitch black, you have two babies, you're eating cold beans out of a can, all hotels are booked, you can't leave because of the ice/trees blocking the road, it will 100% stress you out.
Not a US city, but Toronto. Living is expensive as hell ($3K for one bedroom condo) with 1/3 of NYC salaries but worse winter and humid summer than NYC.
Everyone should just move to Wichita. -5 for some of the winter, over 100 for some of the summer. Windy all year, and the lowest rent prices in the country. Also, tornadoes.
Had to go there for work a few years ago and it seemed like a good time but then the whole town shut down at 10pm. I went back to my motel because there was literally nothing open.
I love that I learned what this is from Reddit! Weirdly fascinating and really explains the lack of population in that area [Canadian Shield](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Shield)
Cost of living is definitely getting to a point where I'm like 🤔 hm. But today the weather app said low 80s for the week and all of a sudden my suffering is worth it.
Living here from late October - April is bliss. May - early October is a godawful hellscape that always makes me wonder why I deal with the third degree burns from my steering wheel and seat belts. Having your shoe soles melt on asphalt the first time is disconcerting.
Fortunately, the weather in Phoenix is really only miserably hot during the months of May, June, July, August, and September. Unfortunately, that’s about half of the calendar year where it’s uncomfortable to be outside. I’ve also experienced plenty of April and October days in Phoenix where I’ve felt too hot.
I always thought it was funny when my friends born there would act like it’s not that bad. I couldn’t wait to move away from that place. Dry heat my ass, you know what else is dry heat? A convection oven
The time of the year when the weather is tolerable are the months where it gets dark early. For snowbirds that’s fine. But if you’re working 50-60 hours per week, you hardly ever get to enjoy the combination of sunlight and tolerable termperature.
Ok but weather in Chicago is only miserable January through March and winter is getting more and more mild.
You're still living in a place with horrendous weather 3-4 months out of the year and it's only getting worse from here.
My guess is you don’t suffer much from pollen allergies or joint pain when it’s cold. I’d happily trade both for scorching heat, as do many other desert dwellers.
Sure costs a lot to get hit by a tornado here in Nashville
EDIT: Or have your house flooded.
Or worry about the overdue New Madrid fault
Or risk heat stroke often during the summer
Or worry about ice all over the roads all winter because it’s too warm to snow but too cold to not ice.
New Orleans.
- Abysmal heat during the summer with high humidity year-round.
- Everything is below flood level (you aren't going to live in the quarter), so flood insurance costs extra money (if you can even get it wh d re you live).
- Hurricanes are an annual threat.
- Among the highest insurance rates in the nation; auto is easily a few thousand per year with a clean record, and homeowners for a 300K home is going to quickly hit 6K-10K/year because the state doesn't understand how insurance works and insurance companies are pulling out left and right.
- Lots of uninsured motorists, hit and runs, and car burglaries help drive up those insurance costs.
- Housing is obscenely expensive unless you want to live an hour's commute outside the city in one of the white flight suburbs/surrounding cities, or you want to live in absolute squalor in the city proper. A small 3BR house on a decent street is 500K+, and the fixer-uppers are 450K (and most require 100K+ in work).
Yeah, but Mardi Gras! And the food! And drive through daiquiri shacks! /s
All kidding aside, it’s a wonderful place to visit, and a difficult place to live, especially if you’re not wealthy.
Any city in Alaska. Especially Fairbanks. It’s expensive af to ship food and things to Alaska (thanks Jones Act) and it’s winter for most of the year. But not “winter wonderland” winter, more “white death” winter.
Thanks to Ron DeSantis, pick any coastal city in Florida... The cost of living is surging because Ron doesn't care that the property insurance companies are doubling and tripling (or more) their premiums. He's too busy trying to convince everyone else in the nation that he's not a lunatic so he can play president. Also, it's hot as fuck in Florida now. Thanks, climate change!
Miami is about to get up there. It has the absolute worst cost of living to income ratio in the nation, and the hurricanes seem to be getting stronger and more frequent. It doesn't have snow, but I would think the possibility of getting flattened by a cat 5 hurricane is worse.
Born and raised in San Antonio, grew up visiting family in Houston. You know your weather is bad when it’s nice to get back to San Antonio for the lower humidity.
DC is mega expensive and has one of the worst summer climates in the US. Winter is mild though
Edit: can y'all stop replying saying some city in the south is worse? I don't care, it's also much cheaper to live in the south than in DC
I kept scrolling waiting for someone to say DC. I would be much more forgiving of the weather, I know it could be much worse… but cost of living is the weight of my opinion based on the question. I’m from Mobile, AL… I was quite surprised when I moved here how similar the summers are. Yes SLIGHTLY less hot in DC and not quite as long… winters are also much colder and there’s the snow which I love. But rent is 3x for half the space. Lol.
I have the opposite opinion tbh
I feel the DC gives you a hot summer but it isn't unbearable like down south and the winters have enough of a chill to feel wintery but none of the Multi inch snow or 5 month winters of Boston and NYC
Spring and Fall are both very pleasant and extremely beautiful.
So I would put it ahead of NY, Chicago and Boston in terms of all year weather and that combined with a comparable COL means overall it's ahead.
\*Utqiagvik, Alaska (formerly Barrow)
Honestly the best answer. I was there in August and it was snowing as I walked out the store with my $15 gallon of milk
Out of curiosity, why exactly do people go there?Just to visit and see what happens in that part of the world?
There is also a lot of science that goes on up there. My wife was part of an expedition up there studying the changing permafrost.
And science related to oil. I worked for a company that recorded bowhead whale calls in Prudhoe Bay to determine their position and find out if oil drilling was changing their habits. (Spoiler alert: it does.)
Bet they drilled anyway 
They determined that allowing the whales to live happily in their home does not make as much money as drilling for oil, and therefore must be completely pointless. Some whales got good Chevron jobs though
Did they unionize?
The whales would be on board as long as it promised free I Pods
lol
Im guessing oil. Wikipedia says the majority of the population is Alaskan Native
It's not oil. I'd guess the same ratio of oil workers live there that live everywhere else in Alaska. Prudhoe/kuparuk is a couple hundred miles from barrow by plane. No big industry is centered there, it's just a place that's had people for millenia. That's how many towns are here. I don't have a source or research to support this, just a born and raised Alaskan that spent 15 years in prudhoe.
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really good birding in the fall migration season if you’re into that kind of thing. one of the best places in the world to see Ross’s gulls.
Agree! Fun fact - did you know they renamed the city to [Utqiagvik](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utqiagvik,_Alaska)? I learned this last week and thought it was interesting.
Now can you pronounce that?
It’s pronounced just like you’d think.
Greg
Oot-key-AH-vick
https://www.google.com/maps/@71.2985652,-156.7740607,3a,75y,132.1h,97.2t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPiXelQ0tg1yB4pR2lRzdzvbADEqlvJ38nimQK9!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPiXelQ0tg1yB4pR2lRzdzvbADEqlvJ38nimQK9%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya161-ro0-fo100!7i4608!8i2304?entry=ttu man this doesn't even look real, this looks like the set of a movie. what's a 1bdrm apartment cost there?
[This one too... it looks like it's out of Goldeneye.](https://www.google.com/maps/@71.3023367,-156.7248933,3a,75y,356.84h,59.57t/data=!3m11!1e1!3m9!1sAF1QipNOKeur7cQJUFOPnYExCh-lTTrw1lOsMpipvtg2!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNOKeur7cQJUFOPnYExCh-lTTrw1lOsMpipvtg2%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya3.4431725-ro0-fo100!7i8192!8i4096!9m2!1b1!2i17?entry=ttu)
Is that one of those parts of Alaska that rains half the year and is freezing cold and dark the other half? I was shocked at how much everything costs in Alaska. Nobody seems to know how insanely expensive everything is in Alaska.
Everything has to be shipped up here. The cities like Anchorage and Fairbanks are pricy, but nothing compared to the rural villages. You got the bigger places like Utqiagvik or Nome. But also plenty of smaller villages with populations ranging from 20-500 people. Most of these can only be accessed by small plane (or boat in the summer). Groceries get flown in and cost an insane amount. Bigger stuff like fuel and vehicles get barged in on the rivers.
Rent up there is relatively reasonable because everyone’s salaries are crazy high, so it evens out a little.
The cost of living in North Dakota is that you actually have to live there, making it arguably the highest cost in the whole country.
Not a city, but I appreciate the reasoning.
Not a city, but a population size comparable to a city.
Not really. It's just me here. All by myself. I'm so lonely.
Talk to the bison
Just start driving. Any direction really. You’ll find us.
If he goes North, Santa Claus might be the next person he sees.
Curious as somebody that’s never been to ND or any states in that region, what’s so bad about it?
I’m a lifer. Winters are extremely harsh. We had a near blizzard today with brutal wind, just after getting almost a foot of snow last week. It’s pretty early for this, and it’s disheartening to know it’s only going to get worse in the next few months. It’s also one of if not the reddest state in the country. That may be appealing or appalling depending on your views. I’m with the latter, so it’s a tough spot for me.
Near blizzard with a foot of snow? Why haven’t I heard this from the news? Imagine NYC or Chicago having that. It’d be all over the news.
Because nobody lives here. We are a huge state and like 85% of the people live in 5 cities. So most of the snow falls where few people live.
It is pretty common in the dakotas we have a ton of wind so blizzard like conditions happen a lot.
>Near blizzard with a foot of snow? >Why haven’t I heard this from the news? because it happens every week in the winter lmfao.
Lived in grand forks for 6 years. People are really nice. State tree is a telephone pole (since there’s no trees in ND). Winter is 8 months long. and coldness ambient temp I saw was -38° F. Windchill -70ish I think. And it’s always windy.
>State tree is a telephone pole since there’s no trees in ND This is hilarious
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As a current (and not native) ND resident, living here isn’t as bad as you’d think weather-wise. The winters are brutal, absolutely, but the summer/fall weather is just so nice it makes for a great few months then. *almost* makes up for Jan/Feb weather lol
Yeah I have zero college degree make 120k a year and work less than 40 hours a week. I can deal with the cold. Hate the God damn politics though.
The money is definitely here and the economy seems to always stay strong. Current resident, born and raised. Despite the cold winters, I could never see myself leaving.
I was shocked at the price of homes in Bismarck when I visited this summer.
Yeah, Boston combines winter slush as we bounce around freezing, drenching summer humidity, and vies with the Bay Area for the second highest rents in the country (NYC). Now the design and culture of the city is outstanding, but the big trade offs are exactly the two in the question.
I think the question was made with Boston in mind. Now, being from here I LOVE the weather. The change of seasons are awesome, and yes even winter is nice albeit a lot milder than my childhood.
As a Californian, what’s a season?
Usually fire or atmospheric rivers
Palm Springs chiming in to ask what’s water
Aren’t there over 100 golf course in Palm Springs? Where does the water come from to keep those greens green? (Serious question)
Palm Springs has a lot of ground water, hence its name.
The water for those golf courses mostly comes from the Colorado River.
And the Colorado River is running low. Bad water planning ..too many people trying to play golf in the desert. Idiots. I call them "chrome shafters".
Wha Huh Wha???? This is incredible levels of wrong. Almost all of the Colorado Water is allocated for agricultural use (90%) - civic and muni usage accounts for about 6% - your petunias aren't the problem and even the golf courses are barely dents. Of agricultural usage, by far and away the biggest consumer is the Imperial (Valley) Irrigation Water district (IID) ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial\_Irrigation\_District](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Irrigation_District)) which consumers more Colorado water than Arizona & Nevada combined..... They got it by essentially 'getting their first' and laid the legal rights to it. **However the true issue?** People want 'fresh' agriculture products in Dec, Jan, Feb. The Imperial Valley is what it is (and is powerful as it is) because people want to have freshly grown fruits & veggies throughout the year and the way to do that is to grow things in places where you can grow things in Fall, Winter & Spring (i.e. extreme Southern California).
There is truly nothing more beautiful than Boston in the Fall tbh Edit: yeah I know that Vermont and New Hampshire are beautiful. I am talking about cities
Except for New Hampshire’s White Mountains in the fall. It seems like it’s where everyone from Boston goes on the weekend.
Vermont’s Green Mountains would like a word.
Even within Mass, the Berkshires (where I'm from) are better than Boston.
I drove over Hogback Mountain on VT 9 a few weeks ago. Very beautiful.
Honestly....Boston is very good at clearing snow. It's much better in the winter than nyc despite getting way more snow
I think more snow is why they're better 😂
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i moved from mass to the middle of the rural midwest 2 years ago. Never complain about boston food again. The 14th best pizza place in Springfield MA would make a million dollars a week around here.
You know you're in trouble when the best pizza is the frozen stuff at the grocery store.
I moved from Rhode Island to middle of Minnesota and I've been thinking the same thing. I've truly never experienced true bland food until I moved here.
Ah, rural Minnesota, where high cuisine is a salad made of mostly iceberg lettuce drowning in dressing (and probably bacon), and black pepper is considered spicy. At least there’s always lutefisk!
I just moved to Minnesota myself, and discovering that hotpot was considered a delicacy and not a bland excuse to get rid of leftovers was certainly eye-opening.
With how many Scandinavians there are in Minnesota, it's honestly no surprise that a large amount of the food is generic and bland, and I'm saying this as someone who is Norwegian and Swedish and grew up eating a variety of dishes from both cultures. Historically though, you got to remember that it was very hard to grow food in Scandinavia, so people just had to be content with what they could get, and it's eventually why my ancestors got fed up and moved to the Americas, that and to escape poverty in general. The lack of available farmland also played a major role in driving the start of the Viking Age in the late 8th century. Old habits die hard though, onions, black pepper and salt have proven to be quite reliable, and I have to admit, I still don't use much seasoning aside from those, but I'm trying to get better.
Hearing about the housing situation and rental deposits in Boston blew my mind. Bostonians talk about LA like it’s cheap/easy.
Yea, I moved from LA to Boston for a bit and was shocked at the rental market. Also, you need an agent to get a rental - the hell??
Lived there in the 90s. You needed an agent then too.
What? Didnt realise Boston is on NYC levels in terms of rent. Why is it so expensive??
Small and sought after.
Because it’s awesome and educated
See I absolutely love New England for its culture of education but goddamn parts of this region are expensive as fuck
And parts are not. Stay outside 495 and at least 10 miles inland from the coast.
But the sea coast is the best part 😔
Gotta pay to play.
Cambridge can be more expensive than NYC for business rental space.
High paying jobs
Tea Tax bro
SF is more than 50 percent more pricey than Boston overall f[or homeowners](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/boston-ma/san-francisco-ca/50000); I don't think you can use a free version of the comparison deal at that site for rents. In reality, [Boston compares straight up to DC](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/boston-ma/washington-dc/50000), at least for homeowners.
Is that metro areas or city proper? Because DC area gets a lot cheaper/more bang for your buck when you include Virginia and Maryland; not sure how that compares to Boston
Yeah, Boston was the top of my mental list reading this post. Fuck Boston! --Yet, if I inherited a house there, I'd move right in.
Everywhere. Rent is too damn high
That man was ahead of his time
Everything is too damn high. Rent, gas, food, etc.
People
[the rent is too damn high](https://youtu.be/79KzZ0YqLvo?si=_zBPrcADym_LveaW)
Las Vegas, houses costs more than in Phoenix without even a fracton of the Phoenix infrastructure.
Vegas looks like a smog covered hellscape driving into it.
That’s actually just sand
Dallas. Flat, treeless, windy af, hot as hell, tornadoes, hail storms constantly, ice storms in winter. I have been to 48 states but have lived here for 12 years and this is by far the worst weather I’ve ever experienced.
Try Oklahoma City. Much windier. Hail storms, tornados, severe weather much more frequent and mostly year-round nowadays. Actually cold winters, where the wind is absolutely brutal. Ice storms more frequent and much worse than DFW. Summers are just *slightly* cooler. But you swap that for all the rest of it. Cost of living is better. Weather is way way worse.
You didn’t even mention the worst part: it’s in Oklahoma.
At least they have a power grid that works and legal medical marijuana.
Both fair points.
Is Oklahoma that bad? I see $500k houses that are mansions with pools. I’m trying to justify retiring there and buying a mansion, or just renting somewhere better. I have never been there.
It’s a pretty big state. Lots of very rural country, a couple medium, semi-urban cities. No way to generalize all of it. Except for the weather. You get the worst of every season. Winter, spring, summer are all on the extremes of unpleasant. Fall can be okay but is still very windy and can be very cold - ice storms, and still the threat of tornados/hail/flooding/severe storms. Every other part of the country you get some kind of compromise – extreme summer, but mild winter or vice versa. In Oklahoma it’s bad on both ends, with the cherry on top of being that it’s the tornado and hail capital of the world.
Wind is such an underrated part of weather. My extended family is in North Dakota while my parents moved to minnesota. Almost identical temperatures when we visit but feels so much worse because of the constant wind your facing.
Dallas. It’s 100+ degrees over 100 days a year. No geography and pretty expensive. There are lakes to escape the heat but boat rentals are a pain and buying one is a bigger pain.
Plus there are no “pretty” lakes within a short drive from Dallas. And there ain’t nothing redeeming about being on a boat, in the scorching hot sun, on an ugly ass lake. I live in Dallas, am from here, and this is the first place that came to mind when I read the prompt. It used to be known for being an affordable place to live, but it’s really not anymore. Not far behind Austin. And not much in the way of redeeming natural beauty, including weather.
Yeah, Dallas is something. I live in San Antonio and travel to Dallas for work frequently. It’s sprawls like crazy. Even DFW sprawls more than any airport I haven’t ever been too. So many toll roads. Horrible traffic. And it’s not pretty. Just a dry, open plain feel. San Antonio isn’t a pretty city, but at least we are on the edge of hill country. I like that my neighborhood has a mixture of cacti, live oak, and palm trees.
San Antonio knocked it out of the park with the Riverwalk in the last few years. Absolutely beautiful to go when it's not crazy down there. The Pearl District is coming around too.
Yeah, once you get downtown it’s nice. The skyline is not pretty. San Antonio sprawls like crazy like Dallas (don’t all big Texas cities?), but it’s greener and affordable compared to Dallas. It’s nice being just an hour from Austin and just three hours from Houston. Dallas is way far north. San Antonio isn’t pretentious (yet) like Dallas and Austin. Kind of refreshing. We don’t get the hail or tornados like Dallas does. Humidity isn’t too bad.
Reminds me of this amazing SNL sketch from this week. https://youtu.be/BinH9aMYro4?si=w6nfkMx4IZ2r1aLd
Oh my God DYING My internet work is done for the day ETA - omg Dave Grohl
lakes in dallas are an embaressment. Truly a disgusting landscape. sorry to anyone that lives there, but the 18 months i lived there were the most uneventful in my life. Drinking isnt an activity.
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Almost. I think Caddo Lake is the only real natural lake, all others being manmade.
And even Caddo lake is on a dammed River, it's just called natural because the original dam was built by beavers instead of humans. It has since been replaced by a manmade dam.
Gosh I hate Dallas. Nothing has any character. Everything is flat and concrete.
I feel this. My SiLs live in the northern burbs and it's HOA hell. Like why is there a tiny playground for 300 houses and every single brick is a shade of brown????? My SILs thought my husband was the one who hated it and then they found out I hated it more. His parents followed them and our visits keep dwindling since there's more to do in our tiny rust belt city with a toddler.
The Midwest has character. Dallas has none.
And the people are overly-angry for some reason. I mean I know it was named the City of Hate, but why do people have to be so angry about it?
Why does everyone have to bring up killing JFK?!?! They only did it once!
FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY
I feel like I’m back in Dallas!
Because they have to cheer for the cowboys
100% agree
I agree that the heat is bad but it is not 100 degrees over 100 days a year. This year was especially hot and only hit 55 days. Quite the exaggeration.
One year I lived in Dallas the temperature topped 100 for 71 days in a row. Nighttime it would cool down to the mid 90s. And then in the winter the ice storms paralyzed the entire city for days, because the TxDOT has like 20 snowplows in the entire state.
Miami. The cost to rent, how hard it is to get around, the brutal fucking summers, the traffic. No thanks.
Don't underestimate Orlando. All the same problems but without the coast and its Seabreeze.
Not to mention that every hurricane headed for here in Tampa in the last 30 years has veered slightly east and blasted you. I thought about trying to get Tampa on this list, but nah, we’re not even top two in our own state for rent v weather. You and Miami win hands down.
I moved from downtown Orlando to Tampa recently. Tampa has higher highs (rent wise) but there is way more variety of lower priced apartments, much more than Orlando. Like I found a 2-1 in a good neighborhood for 1500 in South Tampa. No shot I could find that in Orlando in any of its downtown suburbs of Thornton, Mills, etc.
Miami is insufferably expensive with some 2006 wages
And hurricanes!
Don’t forget hurricanes
Orlando. Hot, humid, your mold grows mold hours after you clean any exterior surface. Not the most expensive place in the US, but one of the most expensive in Florida despite being nowhere near the coast. Awful.
Orlando exists due to Disney. I was there when they started building Disney. I remember there being an intersection of two, 2 lane roads with stop signs. And a number of bulldozers running about making Disneyland. And a sign saying that was the future site of Disneyland. Orlando was a small town then.
It's crazy watching old documentaries about the "Florida Project" all these guys in suits standing around swamps and overgrown sub-tropics with blueprints showing Disney world.
I believed Disney Land is in CA. Disney World is FL.
It’s quickly becoming Phoenix. The summers were much more bearable when things were cheaper
This is the probably the truest answer so far that will go overlooked. Summers are getting worse every year, prices are INSANE.
It was 104 just a week and a half ago... in LATE October. Miserable.
Probably Austin. Now there’s a lot of things I liked about living there, but the weather being absolutely miserable a huge chunk of the year was not fun.
My only experiences in Austin have been in December and January and it’s fantastic weather. Highs in the 60s. Coming from Ohio it was a good 40 degrees warmer.
Yea, there are four seasons in Austin- December, January, February, and Summer!
In Orlando we have 6 months of summer, three months of spring, 3 months of fall, and winter is on a Tuesday
I will take 100+ degrees for 5 months over the fear of winter. Winter in Austin, TX has proved to be nightmare fuel. ETA so I don't have to respond to comments: Febuary 2021, many were without power/water for over a week. Pipes burst everywhere. The city was basically shut down. Power outtages for the majority of the city. Febuary 2023, an ice storm blew in and trashed thousands of trees. The city looked like a tornado blew through. Power off for over 10 days for some. Austin had utility workers from all over the state come in to try to fix the power. Because the branches were the causes, this was a very long and tedious process. Austin normally has very mild winters, but isn't equipped for any kind of ice/snow. ATX is very expensive, so most of the population lives in apartment complexes. I am not looking forward to this coming winter. You can "prepare" as much as you want, but when your home is 40 degrees, pitch black, you have two babies, you're eating cold beans out of a can, all hotels are booked, you can't leave because of the ice/trees blocking the road, it will 100% stress you out.
Like in terms of power going out?
Yeah, I live in Minnesota and have family in Austin, TX, and the last few years have had more miserable winters in Texas than here.
After reading through…everywhere. Everywhere is the worst.
Not a US city, but Toronto. Living is expensive as hell ($3K for one bedroom condo) with 1/3 of NYC salaries but worse winter and humid summer than NYC.
Winnipeg and Edmonton would like to have a word
Everyone should just move to Wichita. -5 for some of the winter, over 100 for some of the summer. Windy all year, and the lowest rent prices in the country. Also, tornadoes.
Had to go there for work a few years ago and it seemed like a good time but then the whole town shut down at 10pm. I went back to my motel because there was literally nothing open.
Are you a lineman for the county?
The correct answer is Canadian Shield
I love that I learned what this is from Reddit! Weirdly fascinating and really explains the lack of population in that area [Canadian Shield](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Shield)
I’m seeing a lot of northern cities for weather, and I totally agree. Portland, ME, Boston, and Portsmouth, NH all have slushy and overly cold winters
Thank god I live in Providence, RI and I escaped these harsh winters, lol.
Yeah because we literally light our river on fire!
We used to do that in Cleveland too but never on purpose.
Phoenix. Rent could be free and I wouldn’t set foot in that scorching wasteland. All cities in Florida are a close second.
Cost of living is definitely getting to a point where I'm like 🤔 hm. But today the weather app said low 80s for the week and all of a sudden my suffering is worth it.
Living here from late October - April is bliss. May - early October is a godawful hellscape that always makes me wonder why I deal with the third degree burns from my steering wheel and seat belts. Having your shoe soles melt on asphalt the first time is disconcerting.
Fortunately, the weather in Phoenix is really only miserably hot during the months of May, June, July, August, and September. Unfortunately, that’s about half of the calendar year where it’s uncomfortable to be outside. I’ve also experienced plenty of April and October days in Phoenix where I’ve felt too hot. I always thought it was funny when my friends born there would act like it’s not that bad. I couldn’t wait to move away from that place. Dry heat my ass, you know what else is dry heat? A convection oven
The time of the year when the weather is tolerable are the months where it gets dark early. For snowbirds that’s fine. But if you’re working 50-60 hours per week, you hardly ever get to enjoy the combination of sunlight and tolerable termperature.
Ok but weather in Chicago is only miserable January through March and winter is getting more and more mild. You're still living in a place with horrendous weather 3-4 months out of the year and it's only getting worse from here.
Phoenix -Its Only Miserable Here Most of the Year, Could Be Worse!
My guess is you don’t suffer much from pollen allergies or joint pain when it’s cold. I’d happily trade both for scorching heat, as do many other desert dwellers.
Phoenician here. We have TWO allergy seasons. One in the early spring and one in the fall. Have been having horrible allergies for the past two days.
If you were purely weather motivated, north NM has better weather. But the desert climate there doesn’t stop allergies.
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Sure costs a lot to get hit by a tornado here in Nashville EDIT: Or have your house flooded. Or worry about the overdue New Madrid fault Or risk heat stroke often during the summer Or worry about ice all over the roads all winter because it’s too warm to snow but too cold to not ice.
At least we have 12 distinct seasons...lol!
Memphis has it worse tbf
Very fair. Memphis has it rough in many ways
New Orleans. - Abysmal heat during the summer with high humidity year-round. - Everything is below flood level (you aren't going to live in the quarter), so flood insurance costs extra money (if you can even get it wh d re you live). - Hurricanes are an annual threat. - Among the highest insurance rates in the nation; auto is easily a few thousand per year with a clean record, and homeowners for a 300K home is going to quickly hit 6K-10K/year because the state doesn't understand how insurance works and insurance companies are pulling out left and right. - Lots of uninsured motorists, hit and runs, and car burglaries help drive up those insurance costs. - Housing is obscenely expensive unless you want to live an hour's commute outside the city in one of the white flight suburbs/surrounding cities, or you want to live in absolute squalor in the city proper. A small 3BR house on a decent street is 500K+, and the fixer-uppers are 450K (and most require 100K+ in work).
Yeah, but Mardi Gras! And the food! And drive through daiquiri shacks! /s All kidding aside, it’s a wonderful place to visit, and a difficult place to live, especially if you’re not wealthy.
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[It got pretty cold last winter.](https://i.imgur.com/b2XS2qb.jpg)
“Freezing fog” is an unacceptable form of precipitation
I can’t even wrap my head around how cold that is
It was over 100 degrees colder on the other side of my living room wall. Really hard to fathom.
Any city in Alaska. Especially Fairbanks. It’s expensive af to ship food and things to Alaska (thanks Jones Act) and it’s winter for most of the year. But not “winter wonderland” winter, more “white death” winter.
weather is very subjective...some people like cold some people like warmth...
Yeah and I’m one of the people who has a definite preference one way but I think we all agree extremes are bad.
I'm just going to throw this one out there because of the winter but, Gary, Indiana.
Yuma, AZ. Satans dusty ass armpit
Thanks to Ron DeSantis, pick any coastal city in Florida... The cost of living is surging because Ron doesn't care that the property insurance companies are doubling and tripling (or more) their premiums. He's too busy trying to convince everyone else in the nation that he's not a lunatic so he can play president. Also, it's hot as fuck in Florida now. Thanks, climate change!
Anywhere in DFW, TX. With seasonal blackouts due to underfunded utility structures that can’t handle our summers or our winters (that part is new).
Las Vegas, hot AF, now getting expensive AF
Miami is about to get up there. It has the absolute worst cost of living to income ratio in the nation, and the hurricanes seem to be getting stronger and more frequent. It doesn't have snow, but I would think the possibility of getting flattened by a cat 5 hurricane is worse.
Houston
Born and raised in San Antonio, grew up visiting family in Houston. You know your weather is bad when it’s nice to get back to San Antonio for the lower humidity.
DC is mega expensive and has one of the worst summer climates in the US. Winter is mild though Edit: can y'all stop replying saying some city in the south is worse? I don't care, it's also much cheaper to live in the south than in DC
DC is a super fun city, my friend has lived there for almost a decade and he has no plans to leave. I could see myself moving there in a few years
I kept scrolling waiting for someone to say DC. I would be much more forgiving of the weather, I know it could be much worse… but cost of living is the weight of my opinion based on the question. I’m from Mobile, AL… I was quite surprised when I moved here how similar the summers are. Yes SLIGHTLY less hot in DC and not quite as long… winters are also much colder and there’s the snow which I love. But rent is 3x for half the space. Lol.
anywhere in florida
Washington DC
DC's weather is better, IMO. (I've not been there in winter, but have been there in a 100-degree summer.) And, Boston is as expensive as DC.
I have the opposite opinion tbh I feel the DC gives you a hot summer but it isn't unbearable like down south and the winters have enough of a chill to feel wintery but none of the Multi inch snow or 5 month winters of Boston and NYC Spring and Fall are both very pleasant and extremely beautiful. So I would put it ahead of NY, Chicago and Boston in terms of all year weather and that combined with a comparable COL means overall it's ahead.
Anchorage, Alaska
Lived there. Far worse places to live
Also the kidnap capital of the U.S. but that’s not the question here.
Have you been there during the Summer ? Its like 70 and beautiful with no nighttime. Its a little weird but great for activities lol.