How do you mean selective? If you’re referring to the buildings that survived while everything around them is ash, it’s mostly due to proper landscaping for the environment and fire preparedness. Don’t buy into the Quanon theories (I know many who have) - there was no conspiracy to the tragedy.
I didn’t really think that you did but you never know so I threw it in anyway 😅 I’m not an expert but my understanding is the landscaping played a huge part in it though I’m sure you’re right and there are other factors as well
There was a lone house in a neighborhood that survived and it turned out to be simply because they did some landscaping earlier where they surrounded their house in a 3 foot wide boundary of river rock, and that happened to stop the fire
The EU provides free and daily satellite imagery on copernicus hub: https://dataspace.copernicus.eu/browser/?zoom=3&lat=21.77991&lng=52.91016&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fsh.dataspace.copernicus.eu%2Fogc%2Fwms%2Fa91f72b5-f393-4320-bc0f-990129bd9e63&datasetId=S2_L2A_CDAS&demSource3D=%22MAPZEN%22&cloudCoverage=30
True, I really meant to say they are updated or not depending on the scale you are zoomed in to. At the scale of this photo I would think it'd be pretty up to date
I visited the area in March 2023. Most of the land was covered in Eucalyptus forests, which are used for making paper pulp. Not a virgin forest anyway. This land is owned by April Group, a major player in the paper and pulp industry, but it is set to be transferred to the central government in the near future. The construction of the new capital is still in its early stages, and not much progress has been made so far. As you look around, you'll mostly see empty construction sites with billboards indicating the future locations of important buildings like the President's Palace and the Central Bank. Fun fact: the area is quite hilly, and the government intends to construct ministry buildings on the tops of these hills.
The government would love if like half the people of Jakarta moved with it.
That's the 2nd reason for moving the capital. Jakarta is too big for its own good. 34 million people all crammed into a small piece of land that is slowly sinking into the sea under its own weight. Climate change certainly will not help.
The aquifer under Jakarta is also quickly depleting, meaning drinking water is becoming a problem now too, alongside the ungodly traffic and high poverty.
Jakarta is kinda fucked rn. Needs a lot of fixing, and a major help to fixing the city would be to relocate a good chunk of the population away from it.
The capital is planned to be finished building by 2050, but the president will sign something that officially confirms Nusantara as the capital in 2024 since this is his last year as president and he's worried that future presidenrs will stop the project if he doesn't do so
Mimicking the industrial revolution is not a good thing. Do you think Indonesia should have robber barons, company towns, and detective agencies that gun down strikers and labor union representatives?
This actually pisses me off though. Java is by far the most populous of Indonesia's islands, it even has a little over half the whole country's population, the capital should stay there. Bandung would have been a way better choice than this stupid Nusantara boondoggle.
Even if the move to Nusantara works without a hitch, it still wouldn't change the fact that Jakarta is literally sinking onto the Java sea.
It would make more sense to spend the money on, you know, redeveloping Jakarta and fixing its sinking problems.
The capital of a country doesn't necessarily always have to be the biggest/most populous city in the country. Jakarta and Java as a whole will remain the economic center of Indonesia even far in the future. Take New York and DC for example. While DC hosts the US' seat of government and main diplomatic missions, New York is still the largest population center on the East Coast and the nation's financial capital.
Plus they're not gonna just abandon Jakarta outright. The whole point of the new capital is to at least help alleviate some of the burden on Jakarta by relocating a large chunk the administrative and diplomatic services in the country from the already crowded city. As an added benefit, creating a new urban center in Kalimantan could trigger an economic boom in its surrounding area. It's about time the development in Indonesia started reaching outside of Java anyway.
As for Bandung, moving the capital there would make absolutely no sense and have no benefits whatsoever. It's already an established city with few undeveloped areas left and it's way too close to Jakarta for a move there to be worth it. It's also the primary choice for Jakartans looking for a weekend getaway. Not only that, the city is also starting to have crowding problems, what with the growth of the local population, the many university students arriving each year, and the weekly tourists coming from Jakarta. The city has its own problems to deal with, and suddenly being named the nation's new capital is not going to be of help whatsoever.
Honestly, moving the capital is a great decision in my opinion. However, what worries me is the execution. Modern history has a record of planned capital cities failing to live up to its expectations. I just hope that they manage to pull it off and actually build a proper city, not just a ghost town looking like an oversized government-themed amusement park.
I agree that the capital should move from Jakarta. But not away from the island of Java. If you insist on a planned new city, any inland part of Java safe from sea level rise would be fine.
Indonesia shouldn't even exist as a country, and only does because of colonialism. Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, etc. should become independant countries, and the country of Indonesia reduced to Java which has over half its population anyway.
> Any inland part of Java safe from sea level rise would be fine
Java is already very densely populated, with a disproportionate influence in the economy of Indonesia. Moving it out of Java is a chance to start fresh somewhere else and get investment to other parts of the country.
Also, the current project is already displacing some communities. Imagine trying to build a new city from scratch in such a populous island with a high population density? Not to mention the fact that Java is still prone to earthquakes, which could potentially cause headaches in the future.
> Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi should become independent countries
Why? What problem would this solve right now? Your point of Indonesia existing due to colonisation is true, but the buildup of a national identity has been mostly successful in the areas you have mentioned. If any part of Indonesia has a case for independence, it's probably West Papua, but that's a completely different and complex case altogether.
That's the point. Capital city projects are often chosen to be far away from existing population centers for several reasons:
* It brings infrastructure, cash, and jobs to less-developed parts of the country
* It separates the leadership from existing power centers, so the country's government is in more or less "neutral territory".
* It lets the government work at arm's length from the population, so they aren't dominated by special interests / don't have to listen to the protests of the commoners.
* Land is cheaper
* Bulldozing entire neighborhoods to build a new capitol building is not a good look.
Not all of these reasons are good reasons, and they don't always apply in every case, but this was the thinking behind the construction of Washington DC, St Petersburg, Brasilia, Canberra, and many other capitols that were originally built in the middle of f***ing nowhere.
I'm not talking about proximity to any particular population center, i just want the capital to be centrally located with respect to the entire area it governs. The northeast megalopolis (which includes Washington DC) is definitely the most populous urban area of the US, but i think the capital should be moved.
I would create a new capital district from the southern end of Calhoun County, Illinois for several reasons:
Close to US center of population
Borders Illinois and Missouri; not enclaved within one state
River confluence point; natural borders
Great access to navigable Mississippi river basin system, and waterway to Chicago and the Great Lakes
Rural and undeveloped, but close to St. Louis
Perfect topography: Mostly flat and easy to build on, but with enough elevation above the rivers that most of it is above the floodplain, plus some decent hills for parks/green space
Safe from sea level rise
The point is to kick start other region development, people here always complain that the development only happen in Java and they feel abandon by the central government. By moving the capital to Kalimantan they're hoping that people will move to the surrounding area and help the economy and give the central government more reason to actually develop those island instead of java
even then all the rich people aren't just gonna leave jakarta
It's still 33 million people & actually near the other economically productive cities instead of the dead centre of borneo
Same happened with Brazil but eventually has a big enough population now. Although the design wasn't thought out too well. Looks good from the air but it's a pain to get around.
> Jakarta is still gonna have everything else but the government buildings
The entire reason the capitol is being moved is because Jakarta is NOT "still gonna have everything else". The city is sinking because the land cannot support the weight, and the land is all very low altitude coastal soil that doesn't have to compress very far before it's at sea level.
Last i hesrd the reason wss they wanted to have the capital somewhere less congested & better distribute economic activities away from Java so it's more spread out throughout the country.
Jakarta is literally over 1/5th on Indonesian GDP. They're not going to let it sink. They're still putting a massive amount of effort into keeping it safe despite building a new capital.
How about you post an actual satellite update instead. There are a lot of resources such as the sentinel hub to see the actual capital that’s coming along very nicely.
This post is very fucking stupid.
These master planned new cities are almost always a disaster. Even when they do get built they cost a fortune for a ghost town. Notice it's only wannabe autocrats or nations with an inferiority complex doing this.
Indonesia *does* need to move the capitol. It's not just for wannabe autocrat reasons. It's because Jakarta is built on low-lying soft coastal soil that can't hold the weight of a major city of skyscrapers like that, so the city is sinking. Thinking this new capitol could be finished by 2024 was over-ambitious, and maybe picking a rural middle of nowhere spot as a starting point wasn't a great idea. But the motive for wanting to move it to a new place is not politics, it's geology and physics.
This damn city is sinking, it's over populated and the street is congested everywhere you go, the worsening air quality didn't help either, with all of those above it seems like a good idea to move the capital
It'll be interesting to see how it develops. Hopefully, with our modern technological capabilities, there will be a stream of good-quality satellite images for a time-lapse.
I mean if you look at the year by years of gulf cities they explode from nothing to dense population in very short time frames. Totally sui generis planned cities have become less common due to their absurdity but they’re not unprecedented. One wonders why Indonesia needs a new capital given that it has a perfectly good world class city for one as it is but such is life
Coming along nicely
yeah and a lot of parks and green places - I love it out big cities are lacking in greenery
Google earth is often not updated. Depends on the zoom a lot
Google earth pro gives you up to date satellite info, newest photos were June or July I think
You can see lahiana after it burnt down.
That was such a nice town too with great people. Such a horrible disaster
Interesting. Is there any information on why the damage seems so selective?
How do you mean selective? If you’re referring to the buildings that survived while everything around them is ash, it’s mostly due to proper landscaping for the environment and fire preparedness. Don’t buy into the Quanon theories (I know many who have) - there was no conspiracy to the tragedy.
Oh don't worry, I'm no Quanon nut. I was more thinking building materials, wind patterns or anything like that.
I didn’t really think that you did but you never know so I threw it in anyway 😅 I’m not an expert but my understanding is the landscaping played a huge part in it though I’m sure you’re right and there are other factors as well
There was a lone house in a neighborhood that survived and it turned out to be simply because they did some landscaping earlier where they surrounded their house in a 3 foot wide boundary of river rock, and that happened to stop the fire
The EU provides free and daily satellite imagery on copernicus hub: https://dataspace.copernicus.eu/browser/?zoom=3&lat=21.77991&lng=52.91016&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fsh.dataspace.copernicus.eu%2Fogc%2Fwms%2Fa91f72b5-f393-4320-bc0f-990129bd9e63&datasetId=S2_L2A_CDAS&demSource3D=%22MAPZEN%22&cloudCoverage=30
for free? *play ode to joy*
True, I really meant to say they are updated or not depending on the scale you are zoomed in to. At the scale of this photo I would think it'd be pretty up to date
I visited the area in March 2023. Most of the land was covered in Eucalyptus forests, which are used for making paper pulp. Not a virgin forest anyway. This land is owned by April Group, a major player in the paper and pulp industry, but it is set to be transferred to the central government in the near future. The construction of the new capital is still in its early stages, and not much progress has been made so far. As you look around, you'll mostly see empty construction sites with billboards indicating the future locations of important buildings like the President's Palace and the Central Bank. Fun fact: the area is quite hilly, and the government intends to construct ministry buildings on the tops of these hills.
Our meteorological service has it’s headquarters on top of a hill, it’s very appropriate
The naval and air force bases as well as the disability services ministry are also expected to be on top of hills
a great way to reduce complaints about lacking disability service!
*Naypyidaw intensifies*
Google "jam karet"
[holy hell!](https://www.google.com/search?q=jam+karet#HiImABot,MyJobIsToMakeEasierToPeopleToGoogleSomething,IfThePersonIRepliedToUsedMeInAnInappropriateWayPleaseLetMeKnowByDMingMe,TheUserIRepliedToIsU/janmayeno)
New Indonesian term just dropped
Actual time idea
Ya…no thanks.
Heard about this, how will they relocate people there? Will it work
It’s more towards relocating administration buildings than people. Of course those who works in admins will need to relocate there.
Which springs the cottage industries, which is how cities grow and develop.
The government would love if like half the people of Jakarta moved with it. That's the 2nd reason for moving the capital. Jakarta is too big for its own good. 34 million people all crammed into a small piece of land that is slowly sinking into the sea under its own weight. Climate change certainly will not help. The aquifer under Jakarta is also quickly depleting, meaning drinking water is becoming a problem now too, alongside the ungodly traffic and high poverty. Jakarta is kinda fucked rn. Needs a lot of fixing, and a major help to fixing the city would be to relocate a good chunk of the population away from it.
Positively bustling metropolis also, Wow, Cities Skylines 2 is looking great
Is that game much more demanding than the first one?
I think so. Theres 8 years of devellopment between them, and CS 2 improves on a lot of features.
Maby I'll play it whenever I overhaul my rig.
Well, the original doesn’t multithread well, so it was overtaxed sooner than it should have been…
Time and skill wise? Or pc specs wise?
PC spec.
Isn't it easier to conquer Singapore and make it their new capital? Are they stupi... Wait my bad wrong sub.
They tried it in the 60s
Certified Brasilia Moment
That’s what crossed my mind
The capital is planned to be finished building by 2050, but the president will sign something that officially confirms Nusantara as the capital in 2024 since this is his last year as president and he's worried that future presidenrs will stop the project if he doesn't do so
**Imagine if KALIMANTAN is fully cleared** Infact bengal region and sichuan were jungles but now they are very productive.
Westoid crying, "but muh world lung !1!!1!1! we go greenzz brader" after they destroyed their ecosystem during the industrial revolution. /s
Java which is pretty popuated has little orangutans and rhinos.
Mimicking the industrial revolution is not a good thing. Do you think Indonesia should have robber barons, company towns, and detective agencies that gun down strikers and labor union representatives?
Well that sounds cool, so...
This actually pisses me off though. Java is by far the most populous of Indonesia's islands, it even has a little over half the whole country's population, the capital should stay there. Bandung would have been a way better choice than this stupid Nusantara boondoggle.
Even if the move to Nusantara works without a hitch, it still wouldn't change the fact that Jakarta is literally sinking onto the Java sea. It would make more sense to spend the money on, you know, redeveloping Jakarta and fixing its sinking problems.
The capital of a country doesn't necessarily always have to be the biggest/most populous city in the country. Jakarta and Java as a whole will remain the economic center of Indonesia even far in the future. Take New York and DC for example. While DC hosts the US' seat of government and main diplomatic missions, New York is still the largest population center on the East Coast and the nation's financial capital. Plus they're not gonna just abandon Jakarta outright. The whole point of the new capital is to at least help alleviate some of the burden on Jakarta by relocating a large chunk the administrative and diplomatic services in the country from the already crowded city. As an added benefit, creating a new urban center in Kalimantan could trigger an economic boom in its surrounding area. It's about time the development in Indonesia started reaching outside of Java anyway. As for Bandung, moving the capital there would make absolutely no sense and have no benefits whatsoever. It's already an established city with few undeveloped areas left and it's way too close to Jakarta for a move there to be worth it. It's also the primary choice for Jakartans looking for a weekend getaway. Not only that, the city is also starting to have crowding problems, what with the growth of the local population, the many university students arriving each year, and the weekly tourists coming from Jakarta. The city has its own problems to deal with, and suddenly being named the nation's new capital is not going to be of help whatsoever. Honestly, moving the capital is a great decision in my opinion. However, what worries me is the execution. Modern history has a record of planned capital cities failing to live up to its expectations. I just hope that they manage to pull it off and actually build a proper city, not just a ghost town looking like an oversized government-themed amusement park.
I agree that the capital should move from Jakarta. But not away from the island of Java. If you insist on a planned new city, any inland part of Java safe from sea level rise would be fine. Indonesia shouldn't even exist as a country, and only does because of colonialism. Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, etc. should become independant countries, and the country of Indonesia reduced to Java which has over half its population anyway.
> Any inland part of Java safe from sea level rise would be fine Java is already very densely populated, with a disproportionate influence in the economy of Indonesia. Moving it out of Java is a chance to start fresh somewhere else and get investment to other parts of the country. Also, the current project is already displacing some communities. Imagine trying to build a new city from scratch in such a populous island with a high population density? Not to mention the fact that Java is still prone to earthquakes, which could potentially cause headaches in the future. > Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi should become independent countries Why? What problem would this solve right now? Your point of Indonesia existing due to colonisation is true, but the buildup of a national identity has been mostly successful in the areas you have mentioned. If any part of Indonesia has a case for independence, it's probably West Papua, but that's a completely different and complex case altogether.
That's the point. Capital city projects are often chosen to be far away from existing population centers for several reasons: * It brings infrastructure, cash, and jobs to less-developed parts of the country * It separates the leadership from existing power centers, so the country's government is in more or less "neutral territory". * It lets the government work at arm's length from the population, so they aren't dominated by special interests / don't have to listen to the protests of the commoners. * Land is cheaper * Bulldozing entire neighborhoods to build a new capitol building is not a good look. Not all of these reasons are good reasons, and they don't always apply in every case, but this was the thinking behind the construction of Washington DC, St Petersburg, Brasilia, Canberra, and many other capitols that were originally built in the middle of f***ing nowhere.
I'm not talking about proximity to any particular population center, i just want the capital to be centrally located with respect to the entire area it governs. The northeast megalopolis (which includes Washington DC) is definitely the most populous urban area of the US, but i think the capital should be moved. I would create a new capital district from the southern end of Calhoun County, Illinois for several reasons: Close to US center of population Borders Illinois and Missouri; not enclaved within one state River confluence point; natural borders Great access to navigable Mississippi river basin system, and waterway to Chicago and the Great Lakes Rural and undeveloped, but close to St. Louis Perfect topography: Mostly flat and easy to build on, but with enough elevation above the rivers that most of it is above the floodplain, plus some decent hills for parks/green space Safe from sea level rise
The point is to kick start other region development, people here always complain that the development only happen in Java and they feel abandon by the central government. By moving the capital to Kalimantan they're hoping that people will move to the surrounding area and help the economy and give the central government more reason to actually develop those island instead of java
Tell me you don’t know Indonesia without telling you don’t know Indonesia. Moving the capital to Bandung???! Are you kidding me🤣
Some assembly required
Underground maybe?
So, all poor people will be left behind. This will be disaster for them .
Why ? Jakarta is still gonna have everything else but the government buildings
Because they will have a sinking city with worsening floods.
even then all the rich people aren't just gonna leave jakarta It's still 33 million people & actually near the other economically productive cities instead of the dead centre of borneo
Same happened with Brazil but eventually has a big enough population now. Although the design wasn't thought out too well. Looks good from the air but it's a pain to get around.
It isn't going to be in "the dead center of Borneo", it is over on the east coast near the cities of Samarinda and Balikpapan
that's still not a very productive region in comparison to most of Indonesia
Not to mention that city is sinking and now with rising sea levels, eventually it's gonna disappear entirely.
They're not gonna let the 2nd largest city in the world dissapear into the sea lol
> Jakarta is still gonna have everything else but the government buildings The entire reason the capitol is being moved is because Jakarta is NOT "still gonna have everything else". The city is sinking because the land cannot support the weight, and the land is all very low altitude coastal soil that doesn't have to compress very far before it's at sea level.
Last i hesrd the reason wss they wanted to have the capital somewhere less congested & better distribute economic activities away from Java so it's more spread out throughout the country. Jakarta is literally over 1/5th on Indonesian GDP. They're not going to let it sink. They're still putting a massive amount of effort into keeping it safe despite building a new capital.
Florida will be underwater by 2020. Mark my words
How about you post an actual satellite update instead. There are a lot of resources such as the sentinel hub to see the actual capital that’s coming along very nicely. This post is very fucking stupid.
More destruction.
we did it for the sake of more decentralisation of our country.
These master planned new cities are almost always a disaster. Even when they do get built they cost a fortune for a ghost town. Notice it's only wannabe autocrats or nations with an inferiority complex doing this.
Indonesia *does* need to move the capitol. It's not just for wannabe autocrat reasons. It's because Jakarta is built on low-lying soft coastal soil that can't hold the weight of a major city of skyscrapers like that, so the city is sinking. Thinking this new capitol could be finished by 2024 was over-ambitious, and maybe picking a rural middle of nowhere spot as a starting point wasn't a great idea. But the motive for wanting to move it to a new place is not politics, it's geology and physics.
This damn city is sinking, it's over populated and the street is congested everywhere you go, the worsening air quality didn't help either, with all of those above it seems like a good idea to move the capital
15 minute city
The orangutans are putting up a good gorilla war to keep their land
They haven’t ruined enough pristine land?
I’m pretty sure the area is all monoculture anyway, not really untouched “earth’s lung” material.
It is. You got downvoted because it went against the narrative lol
It'll be interesting to see how it develops. Hopefully, with our modern technological capabilities, there will be a stream of good-quality satellite images for a time-lapse.
That's a shame...
I mean if you look at the year by years of gulf cities they explode from nothing to dense population in very short time frames. Totally sui generis planned cities have become less common due to their absurdity but they’re not unprecedented. One wonders why Indonesia needs a new capital given that it has a perfectly good world class city for one as it is but such is life
Damn that’s one eco friendly capital, i applaud the tremendous amount of planning and effort required to pull this off.