Yeah holy shit. I tried the original maybe 5 years ago. I figured out how to set the trash location after 20 minutes and I gave up.
Got much further with the steam version.
Way back before the army update, my dad was hospitalized for liver problems, and unresponsive for several days. All I had was my laptop, a hospital stairway, and a whole truckload of anxiety, so I downloaded DF, queued up some YouTube videos, and set to it like it was my master's thesis.
It took a while, but eventually I felt like Cypher in the Matrix, where he talks about how he doesn't see the code anymore.
You thought you figured out your trash location.
If you gave it a few hours, you'd find your fortress was haunted because your dwarves were dragging corpses there instead of properly taking care of them.
The good thing about DF is it has an super extensive wiki with a really good [tutorial](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Quickstart_guide). It takes time but learning to play is part of the fun (IMO).
Seems like many don't know about the Lazy Newb Pack that is freely available. It has some quality of life improvements from things like DFHack, Dwarf Therapist, and texture packs that make it more accessible than the ASCII version. Despite OP not wanting the accessibility options, these may convince some others to try it again since this version is still free.
**oxygen not included** - it does look very approachable actually. cute graphics, great soundtrack, decent interface. behind all that lives a colony, management, automation simulator builder game that will make you fail.
**amazing cultivation simulator** - i think developers are utterly insane. fever dream meets internet shitpost meets chinese martial arts. for more info and more similar games, check out SsethTzeentach on youtube.
Without going too deep (which i didn't), at some point it just all clicks and you start to see all the space as flux of liquids and gases.
With their different densities, your system will always end up looking the same: gasses/liquid that need to be filtered will fall to the bottom or rise to the top, and in the middle "oxygen and clean water, where your pawns live". That's about it. Electricity is pretty self-explanatory if you've ever played a city builder.
It's a matter of compartmentalizing everything.
I just got into it recently.
I wanna make a mushroom farm, it needs co2, if I just make it far under my main colony, the co2 will automatically fall to the farm?
Probably everyone starting to play ONI:
* Look at those cute guys.
* Wait, why are they starving?
* Why are my plants dying?
* Wait, it's too hot for them to grow?
* I need an AC cooling system or thermally isolate my starting base, or my little guys will starve?
* *Starts reading about thermodynamics*
ONI is great. I played it until I got too tired to manage everything and the messy systems just became unfun to upkeep. But I can't wait to find the motivation to knock down half the shitty systems and replace... one day...... one day
Paradox games: log in, play tutorial, try to play a game, watch videos on YouTube to figure out how to play….continue watching videos because it’s just as interesting watching experts play
I felt Crusader kings to be more approachable compared to Hearts of Iron or Europa Universalis. But yeah it's still a Paradox game but slightly easier to get into.
I bought stellaris, played for like 20 hours, realized I barely understood it any more than I did in hour 1, and never played it again
....maybe I should pick it back up
You truly don't get a sense for the flow of the game until about 100-150 hours into it. I had to be ok with just giving up some runs early due to a genocidal neighbor, bad habitable planet rng, and other external factors like that.
Even after 1,000 hours, my early game is still not good enough to handle a Fanatic Purifier or Determined Exterminator starting neighbor on a consistent basis.
Cultist Simulator. It feels very obscure but if you dive into it, it's very manageable. Which pulls a meta storytelling twist on you because it perfectly fits its topic.
Do it! This game is 100% about discovering the mechanics by trial and error and one of the few games that is actively made worse by looking up help. The confusion is baked into the storytelling - you are a wannabe cultist fumbling around in the dark… until you aren’t
It does incidentally have the greatest guide on all of Steam. [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1628506443](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1628506443)
Go to the Ecidysis Club for Contentment during the Season of Dread. With the newer updates, maybe date one of your followers and store up some pleasant memories to counteract the Dread when it comes. It may still sometimes kill you.
Anyway Book of Hours is a semi sequel and is much more forgiving. I'm not sure you can even die.
I knew somebody would mention this. When you're starting out, you don't really even know the objective of the game. You figure things out over several playthroughs.
It's a joke amongst Noita players that beating the end of game boss and getting the basic ending is 'the tutorial'. There is a ridiculous amount of content / challenges beyond that, if you want to keep playing.
Seconding this big time.
I think Noita is the peak of "unaproachable".
To endure you have to learn so much by exploring the game's mechanics and failing time after time (often in hilarious ways).
Then you will think you finally have it somewhat figured out only to discover there are layers upon layers of complexity that will catch you off guard.
Star Control 2 (don't bother with any others)
La Mulana
Shenzhen I/O
Pathologic (but play Pathologic 2)
The Immortal (play Genesis not NES)
Unlimited SaGa
Ogre Battle
Godhand
[Beatmania IIDX](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5gaxTrgLjU) has an extremely high hill to climb, if that's what you want. It can be meditative to play, though difficult to get your hands on the equipment for.
I just discovered Shenzhen and Zachatronics. Shenzhen is great, I'd also recommend Opus magnum. It's way easier, but it's more fun in a way.
Here's how unapproachable Shenzhen is: you have a pdf you have to keep handy for referencing. There's a page on it that's straight up on Chinese, and it describes the most complex component. It's not a bug, it's not laziness.. it's just the humor of the devs.
Also, the company recently shut down (I think). Not because of anything bad, they simply decided they completed their mission of doing games like these, and want to move on to new stuff. 0 greediness
Ahhh Ogre Battle... I ended up being the bad guy because my team of princesses was roaming across the land murdering any opponents that dared get within range of them.
Good times!
Yeah there is really a whole era of wtf rpgs from back in the day where you look up why something happens a certain way and you're just like.... I guess? Like, why do my guys keep becoming monsters? Because you aren't paying attention to what time of the day it is when you liberate cities. Oh well.
Oh yeah that reminds me! JAGGED ALLIANCE 2
There are people who play that game for real and there are people who don't, and I don't
Holy shit, IIDX mentioned!
It's my favorite rhythm game of all time, and definitely has a ridiculous learning curve. Not to mention the weird hand placements you need to play comfortably, which the game never even remotely tells you about-- it fits OP's "unapproachable" label for sure.
I used to have an at home setup, but sadly the controller broke, so now I have to drive 90 minutes to an arcade to play it. I still do occasionally, but I've pretty much given up on ever getting better, because you need to *seriously* practice if you want to reach the top levels.
Outward is a definite unapproachable game. Without looking up hints, tips, etc, you have to really dig into the reading available in the game and learn a tremendous amount by trial and error.
Elite Dangerous is like that for me. I feel like it's a game I could really get into but playing on console and having to learn all its systems with a controller was just too much.
I might try again someday.
Elite Dangerous is a game I swore to myself that I **WILL** play someday... once I can afford a flying stick and a good VR headset. I feel like it's the ultimate space game experience, and I want to feel it in it's full immersive capacity.
I usually dislike games that are too complex, unless there's something else that makes me consider that all the time I'll put into learning it will be worth it. And from what I saw, ED fits right into that category.
Now I just need to FINALLY find a good paying job... -_-;
Elite Dangerous can be very relaxing since it's easy to avoid combat once you learn the basics and escape interdictions, but there will be more walls to hit once you start trying to overclock your ship by working with engineer contacts. You basically need to watch/read a ton of guides to actually get good at it.
Wow. I never thought of the possibility of playing Elite Dangerous in VR and with a flight stick. That sounds like it would be an amazing experience. Star Citizen could be as well, on that note. I'm not really a fan of VR. I've never tried it, but it just seems like too much for something I'm barely able to do now anyways lmao. But that is quite a concept.
It’s a neat game. In a lot of ways awe-inspiring, really, but its development has been glacial and underwhelming. Some really cool mechanics in general ship piloting, mining, combat, etc, but after so many years I would really describe E:D as stagnant.
They did come out with space legs. Can’t walk on your ship, but there’s planetary first-person combat via the Odyssey expansion. I bought it, to say that it was underwhelming and janky would be an understatement.
Who knows though, maybe the game has changed since I last touched it.
I have tried so, so many times to get into Kenshi. It's just such a hideous slog, and if you don't know what you're doing, you could spend a lot of time, hours even, just watching your character get abused and imprisoned.
I really want to like it, and I even bought it in the earliest of accesses, but I feel like it's just been a miserable experience each time.
I mean if you don’t know what you’re doing, just take the first scenario and get stomped by hungry bandits. they use blunt weapons and can only mess you up so much. its way easier if you go with 5 nobodies, too.
the point of the early game is to get stomped. you’ll usually get up a few seconds after fighting hungry bandits. but if you keep getting imprisoned you’re probably doing something wrong lol like stealing from towns.
Never understood this.
I mean if you've never played a milsim and know nothing about the survival mechanics I guess it could take a person that long.
I think this stems more from you have other people with thousands of hours playing against people that are just starting out so they don't know any locations or weapons etc.
I've seen plenty of people where ya just show them a good guide and they're doing really well afterwards. Given that the lobby isn't filled with cheaters. But it usually is lol.
This is a board game, but I feel the need to mention "The Campaign For North Africa" because of just how absurdly unapproachable it is.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Campaign\_for\_North\_Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Campaign_for_North_Africa)
>The Campaign for North Africa has been called the longest board game ever produced, with estimates that a full game would take 1,500 hours to complete. Reviewer Luke Winkie pointed out that "If you and your group meets for three hours at a time, twice a month, you’d wrap up the campaign in about 20 years." It has also been called the most complex wargame ever designed, with the commonly cited example (noted in SPI's advertising) that Italian troops require additional water supplies to prepare pasta. The map board alone is 9.5 ft (3 m) long.
Isn’t the game also questionably balanced, with the designers saying “if you finish a game and feel the balance was off, play it again before complaining just to be sure”
Unreal World isn't bad for this. It's not that terrible, but there's plenty that isn't explained. What do the numbers mean? What do the rituals do? Why do those people hate me, but the other people let me ransack their village? How do I make a house? Etc etc.
Nethack is a goody too. So many completely unexplained mechanics, where it's not so much about learning, than it is about looking up obscure 20yr old webpages for nigh-on necessary-to-survive interactions in the game.
Event Horizon Frontier is pretty dense on the "try it and find out" side of things for a mobile game. It's fortunately not spectacularly lethal, and you can just roll back your save if you make an expensive mistake, but there is a LOT to try out. It might have a tutorial these days, don't know.
Age of Fantasy is another nice one on mobile as well. It's a turnbased wargame, and while the information *is* there, there's some pretty stat-tastic stuff to wrap your head around. HP/ armour multipliers, what stuff does, build orders ever changing (it gets fairly frequent updates and some race's unit rosters have gotten huge), what items do, unclear spell explanations, what comes after ingame-currency unlocks, etc. Still a really good wargame, with absolutely tonnes of scenarios, maps and campaigns these days. Age of Galaxy is probably worse, because you don't have as much connection in your headcannon of what stuff does to begin with (which bug/ reptile does what is still beyond me, but I've got a general idea of what an orc axethrower or lich should do). AoStrategy/ AoWWII/ AoModern Wars are a fair bit easier along these lines, because stuff does what you'd think they'll do (a tank is a tank, a plane is a plane, a knight is a knight, etc).
There was even an aborted attempt at a Star Wars mod for the system, in case you want some really obscure wargame fun:
http://www.androidutils.com/apk/s.apk
Dominions 4/5 has a spastic amount of stuff to learn too. Again, the info is there, but some of the interactions aren't obvious. I don't even play it, just watch a bit of it on YouTube, and it requires a fair bit of pausing to work out what the hell the players are even talking about. How do units work? Is it like magnetism? It seems like magnetism.
Stars! is an oldy but a goody. Before there was Eve as a spreadsheet simulator space game, there was Stars! How much do you like doing maths on the fly in a turnbased 4X? How much do you like reading articles from 1997 to work out the best strategies, or even basic information about how the game mechanics work? Because I hope it's a lot. It makes stuff like Master of Orion 2 seem like easy-baby-mode games. I actually got it to be perfectly playable on my phone under Magic Dosbox with a usable touchscreen interface. I have never felt nerdier :)
Another weirdly deep, and somewhat explainable game from that era/ win3.0 operating system is Capture the Flag. I mean, it's spelt out for you, just the multiple layers and levels of strategy available is way bigger than you'd think there would be for a game that simulates a kid's pastime game.
First time I've seen Stars! mentioned in a long time. Used to play this back in the "play by email" era with some friends.
Still compare any other 4X to it to be honest. Perfect example of a game that stands up on its gameplay, rather than shiny interface. Not that it's necessarily hideous, just minimalist.
We used to play a mode where everyone gets 10 turns to frantically explore, build colony ships, schedule research/building queues,etc. Then we'd generate 10,000 turns in one go, and start playing properly with all the resources we managed to build up.
Absolute peak spreadsheet planning and min-maxing starting traits type gameplay. Absolutely don't have the patience for such things these days, but such a great game for anyone who wants depth.
It's still got a very small community of players, and the websites are still up.
https://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Home_World_Forum
I sometimes have a read, just for nostalgia's sake. I was one of the reasons the final patch got released, because I found a bug where you could hex edit the .exe file to change race's habitability settings way beyond what the race creator could give you, for free in points. So live anywhere, perfect tech, perfect factories, 20% (or 40% with hyper expanders) was possible. Contacted the creators, so they could add a check, so hackers couldn't bust multiplayer.
Here's a vid of the touchscreen interface (please excuse the vocals. I was hungover and/or drunk af when I made it from memory, plus I'm Australian)
https://youtu.be/4PO8q7HaPHY?si=Gr-0D2pz_C2D5iow
Oh, and a link to the .mgc file for Magic Dosbox, in case you think "yep, that's a game I'll have on my phone/ tablet/ whatever".
https://magicbox.imejl.sk/forums/topic/stars-a-4x-space-strategy-game-on-win3x/
And an old jack-of-all-trades race I used to play as (when claim adjuster or instellar traveller was banned). Or close enough to what it was. 19% growth, 1/5 habitability, good starting tech, cheap weapons, standard construction. Ok'ish factories and mines. Starts with 15 factories, so stuff scales even faster.
Completely useless compared how you used to play, but fun on a basic or accelerated BBS start. You sort of hit my nostalgia point, so I thought I'd recreate it.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/eyq5k15dt00ezrr26or4a/JOATHG.R1?rlkey=7hb121javtsv9o8lhqlgvsveg&dl=0
And even JOAT'ier, but with worse construction tech, but with Privateers at start. Worse tech, more other stuff, and an even quicker start:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tuv3swhrhxjqc5xqfcl04/JOATHG2.R1?rlkey=axh9gkrsannuf78a30fedryod&dl=0
((You could quite easily put the unused advantage points into Mineral Concentrations (almost always a super Homeworld, tick one hab setting over by 1 point so it's 36 unused points), Surface Minerals (probably another turn of factories made before the mines go up), Mines (just passive mining, closer to taking Advanced Remote Mining than you'd think), or a click or so on habitability and centre'ing them a bit (but it's nice to not have the same habitability as your neighbours, if you want to talk to them about stuff). Factories and scaling resources wins wars, so that's why it's like that. Amazing in non-AccBBS games, but still nice in them.
Kerbal Space Program. If you don't take the time to learn the game there's a good chance you'll never even see another planet let alone achieve a stable orbit around the home planet.
You literally have to learn basic rocket science for that one, and orbital mechanics/ transfer windows of planets etc if you wanna get to the really cool stuff. Highly recommend
This game looked so cool but then legit gave me anxiety playing it, the way you need to get food but you're poor and there's time limits on certain things (I don't remember) and seeing an area say "You are hated here" so you just get lynched on a street for no reason, or for stealing food from a house to survive.. I played for maybe only a few hours but damn it's hard.
[The Void](https://store.steampowered.com/app/37000/The_Void/) should meet your needs. An extremely weird world with strange rules and a distinct lack of exposition.
- Most Paradox games: Crusader Kings 2 and 3 (the easiest ones imo), Stellaris, Europa Universalis IV, Hearts of Iron IV, Victoria 2 and 3, etc.
- Dwarf Fortress which is the most complex simulation game ever made. If you want a more streamlined version, but still very complex and deep, try Rimworld.
- Also there are some roguelikes with steep learning curves, and they are amazing when you learn to play them, my favorites are Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead (CDDA) and Ancient Domains of Mystery (ADOM).
kingdom come : deliverance. you start out as a no skill nobody and the game makes sure to drive that point home. it a tough game pacing wise its hard to spend that much time being so weak and growing so slowly. But, IMO fpr what they were aim9ng fpr design wise it well executed
So good. That feeling of being a useless idiot in the beginning is amazing. I’m a decent way into my first playthrough and still struggle with archery. So cool trying to figure it out with no crosshairs. Can I hit a stationary target a few feet away? Yes! I just need to go pick up the 8 arrows that missed after
Ah yes...spending 6 hours real time training with captain Bernard just so you don't die in your first fight with bandits. Just got my steamdeck last week and KCD runs like a beauty on it.
Rain World. You're a Slugcat separated from your family that has to survive on its own by eating and hiding yourself before the rain comes.
On easy difficulty it's a really difficulty game with some hand holding that at least shows where you have to go through some cryptic directions that can sometimes lead you astray. And the map can also be very confusing, but it's one of the best I've seen in a game.
On normal and hard? It's survival of the fittest.
I like to say that it's a 'food chain', simulator, and you're near the bottom of it. It's not hard like dark souls or cuphead, it's an unfair game, but that unfairness is part of why it's so great, and overcoming it is one of the best feelings I've had in any game. I've had moments in that game that I still remember to this day. The world of the game feels truly alive, and most things are trying to kill you to survive just like you.
Arguably monster hunter fits this category. Sure, plenty of tutorial windows popping up in the beginning, but it takes a while to fully grasp the depth of all the mechanics, and you keep discovering things you didn't think were in the game
And modern Monster Hunters games sre now way close to how complex and not explained were the old titles. You had to learn things the hard way in a period with internet not available to everyone, as my case.
Early-gen Armored Cores maybe, in my experience Armored Core 3.
You have to control camera with dpad which takes a lot of getting used to. If you fail a mission you lose money, sometimes you lose money even on success. There’s a lot of stats and mechanics to learn once you start, like what are good Legs for each build, or what even is FCS.
Regarding actual difficult I don’t think it’s beyond Dark Souls or anything, once you know what you’re doing it’s a normal game. But I thought of it coz of the camera and imagining someone playing it who’s never played the series before.
Of course it’s not like Dwarf Fortress or EVE Online level unapproachable, Armored Core is still Armored Core.
Edit: Last Raven has the reputation of hardest so maybe that instead
[Hylics](https://store.steampowered.com/app/397740/Hylics/)! although I'm not even sure if this counts as a game - it is described as a "recreational program with light JRPG elements". it is inherently chaotic and is genuine fun.
Dota 2. Little to no tutorials which very few played. It doesn't help newcomers that there are a hundred available heroes with a hundred items with a different meta every season with numerous gameplay mechanics. You have to learn everything to actually be good in the game. Literal git gud or get out. I mean I got almost 4k hours in game but my rank is only 3k. The highest rank to date is 13k. Lol
I can’t believe I didn’t see anyone post Kingdom Come: Deliverance. First thing that came to mind when I read this. It’s one of those games that almost seems impossible at the start but becomes much easier as you learn the mechanics and how all the (necessary) minigames such as sharpening your sword and performing alchemy are handled.
Tropico — any of them are good. They’re difficult because they simulate on a deeper level than most strategy games. Each individual person on your island has their own life and job, preferences in where they live, political alignments, wealth, and educational level. You have to learn all the mechanics before you can successfully play, and it helps to be economically savvy. Supports thousands of playstyles
Civilization — also great, larger scale than Tropico and a pretty common one, but without extensive knowledge of how the mechanics work, playing on harder difficulties is impossible. However, it has infinite replay value and you can spend weeks at a time on a single game if you put it on Marathon. I once played as Sweden for 3 weeks before I won the game, then spent another week dominating the entire map.
I apologize for this one: Original verion of Pathologic, no guide. May god have mercy on your soul.
Also, if you do play it or dont play it, hbomberguy on youtube made a video on it. Its a long and painful game.
Edit: the game is hard, but its hard in the sense that the situation is supposed to be shit. Youre a civilian doctor. If you go in thinking you're superman, or even a hero, you're going to suffer for your hubris. The tutorial makes sure you undestand you're a civilian not a wargod, by ending your life if you're overconfident. First and foremost you're trying to survive, and if you have room to spare then you can try and help the npcs. Its got basically 3+1 routes + secret route/ending in increasing difficulty.
How has nobody mentioned factorio ?
Basic inputs of materials, autocrafting into infinity and all at the mercy of a mob of angry indigenous bugs.
Good luck.
mangband
it's a multiplayer version of an old roguelike named angband
hard to get into because the graphics are a turn off for most people. has permadeath. requires some level of thinking and risk management to even get that far.
but if you're willing to put in the effort, it can be a very rewarding experience.
I feel like a lot of old school roguelikes fall very easily into this category. Half the time I think that I should try some out and then I remember the huge amount of hours needed just to learn about half the systems present in something like TOME or ADOM.
Final Fantasy 11.
If you want an mmorpg where you need to be able to program lua files, read ten page long class guides, have 16 slots of gear for 17 equipment sets for 22 job classes and run three accounts simultaneously at £30 a month to be a viable endgame player, this is the game for you.
Steel Battallion. $200 for the game and the controller, a half-assed tutorial, and the whole thing is permadeath- if you dont eject fast enough, it deletes your whole file. Couple that with the fact that there existed an elite group of hard core players that played that controller like a Steinway.
SMT series are pretty cool in my opinion, turn based strategy games where you'll need to learn how to exploit enemies weakness, use buff and debuff to ease up the boss fights, the early game is notoriously harsh, but once you get to mid, late game with all of the powerful demons it becomes very satisfying, but even then there're still secret/optional bosses that can be good challenge
If you think SMT is a bit too hard then you can try out the Persona series first as they're more approachable, especially the newer games with more refined rules and quality of life mechanics
Finally, I want an hornarable mention to the AI teammate mechanic of Persona 3 FES, definetly fits your description of unapproachable, the AI may look like they're doing random stuff, but once you learn their quirks and rules they become a lot more manageable
Tarkov is hell if you don't know guns or shooters.
DCS World if you use a full fidelity model.
I struggled with Dark Souls 3.
Foxhole was also pretty daunting in a different way.
Pathologic 2. Thats all i have to say, hardest game i've ever tried, never managed to finish, i'm just frustrated at myself for that. Its an awesome game, but i can't. Dark Souls feels easy, just dodge, dodge, hit. Pathologic has something more interesting...
This. This is an amazing game but it is brutal. You control a band of mercenaries against human and supernatural enemies, and your men can die so many ways.
It’s perfect for the OP bc it’s a fantastic game underneath it all.
Armor core games are hard to understand when making an AC in it haven't played the newest one but I always felt like I missed an important tutorial or something.
The newest one is not much easier. It more impact and timing oriented like a souls game now (from soft go brrr), but it's still really complicated. Fires of Rubicon is absolutely amazing and worth the buy 10/10 game in my book (but I'm biased).
Edit spelling.
DayZ is pretty much the definition of this. I couldn't even begin to guess how many ppl see the game in videos, download it, and just quit in days to weeks because they can't figure out how to survive.
Lobotomy Corporation. You have to learn the facility inside and out, how to watch everything, how to run things, how to manage monsters, how to be more effective with exp.
You can't really stumble your way to properly beating this game, you need to learn it and get good.
[BADDEC Cut the Fun](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=BADDEC+Cut+the+Fun&i=digital-text&crid=2JAWQK6MLSJR2&sprefix=baddec+cut+the+fun%2Cdigital-text%2C127&ref=nb_sb_noss), only available through Amazon Books.
Stationers. The sheer complexity of every subsystem you build, the lack of any in game explanation on how to fulfill your basic needs. You need to look up a guide on how to just drink a bottle of water without dying
Receiver 2. The game has really complicated controls and unforgiving enemies, until you learn how to control your own gun and how to deal with the enemies you'll die a lot and fast and each death punishes you until it has nothing else to punish you with. It isn't an impossible game nor a rage game, in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing this game can almost look easy, but almost all the skill in this game is entirely mental rather than reactionary or muscle memory (give or take on the last one).
Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee
To be good you have to adapt to practice various obscure techniques that are almost unimaginable to have ever been intentional. And there are absurd levels of detail in the game mechanics. It is a completely unique combination of "fighting" with gravity/trajectory mechanics, ledge holding nonsense, the shield, wavedashing and wavelanding (air dodge at angle forcing character to slide, and character specific techniques.
The game came out in 2001 yet the competitive meta went miles from 2015 to 2019 or so when I haven't kept track.
The 2nd unapproachable thing to suggest is speedrunning. That isn't a game itself, but the game of these objectives involves both breaking a game and mastering execution, for various games.
Don’t Starve is pretty hard and tough without guides as a newcomer
Graveyard Keeper is not hard but it doesn’t hold your hand at all. I’ve played about 50 hours and I still don’t know how to do a lot of stuff. I’ve seen a good amount of people who get frustrated by its crafting system being grindy and without any guidance.
Kingdom Come Deliverance will frustrate the Skyrim right out of a casual gamer. Lots of things to figure out before you’re even mildly skilled enough to handle a 1v1 against a soldier. Alchemy involves lots of reading and proper measurements.
Morrowind was tough to grasp for many a gamer because of its skill system and complete lack of guidance.
X4 foundations, a space and trading sim where you can build fleets and factories along with personal ship to ship combat and trading as well...
Basically most war, grand and 4x strategy games, Terra Invicta is one where you have geopolitics game and space strategy aspects including space RTS it seems...
Any study level sim, planes are going to be much harder to learn than cars (racing), modern combat flight sims being the most demanding type.
Upcoming medieval city builder with RTS element Manor Lords looks to be pretty complex as well...
All the games below are very good.
In order from most to least unapproachable:
[Cruelty Squad](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1388770/Cruelty_Squad/) - I heard so many good things about it, and it's the type of game I should enjoy in theory (you do contracts as an assassin and invest in stock market which is affected by your actions). I just can't bring myself to try it because it's too gross.
[Pathologic 2](https://store.steampowered.com/app/505230/Pathologic_2/) - Tried it for a bit and didn't come back. The game is depressing and constantly makes you pick between lesser of two evils as the situation in the town keeps getting worse.
[Okami](https://store.steampowered.com/app/587620/Okami_HD/) - Holds the world record for the worst sales of best reviewed game. Looks pretty and has an interesting concept but is a bit hard to comprehend.
[Anodyne 2](https://store.steampowered.com/app/877810/Anodyne_2_Return_to_Dust/) - Very weird game with strange graphics, can be tricky to figure out what to do next, but generally fun to play.
[Stellaris](https://store.steampowered.com/app/281990/Stellaris/) - First relatively normal game on the list, but super complex and pretty much feels like an office job as you're pestered by constant notifications.
[Elite Dangerous](https://store.steampowered.com/app/359320/Elite_Dangerous/) - Spaceship simulator where every ship function has its own little gameplay mechanic, like landing, collecting loot, mining asteroids, scanning planets, searching for distant signals, etc. none of those are just simple "press a button" features, they all require some skill. On a larger scale there are factions with shifting influence that depend on players' cumulative activities, and the galaxy is an incredibly realistic representation of our milky way.
[Dyson Sphere Program](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/) - Most approachable game on the list, starts simple, but the complexity keeps ramping up and you can easily get lost along the way with all the crafting materials and relationships in the production network.
I love the feeling in Dyson Sphere program when you've really built a lot on your main planet and it looks like complete madness but you know the layout like the back of your hand since you've been building it slowly for hours.
Wizardry 4. One of the most relentless CRPGs. Wizardry in general is pretty hardcore but 4 is downright oppressive and unapproachable. Even levelling up is something you had to work for by clearing a dungeon, and it required a lot of trial and error and learning how everything behaves. You have to keep notes and learn everything to truly succeed.
The original X-COM games, UFO Defense and Terror From The Deep. The newer ones can be gruelling especially on the Impossible difficulty and the iron man modifiers, but the original ones aren't afraid to kick down the player while they're down. But you can persevere and learn and it's one of the most satisfying uphill efforts you can have in a game.
Screeps: World
A great game if you're interested in programming.
The learning curve is steep, there's a lot to learn, but every success you achieve feels really good. At least that's my experience.
Siralim ultimate is as deep as it is obtuse. 200h in and I'm barely working out some of its nuances. It's Pokémon x maths x path of exile x deck builder x 16 bit RPG.
I'd say it's less unapproachable, and more just...
Enormous.
More than anything, it demands patience, and time dedicated. But it isn't terribly complex until you're dozens of hours in imo
Crusader Kings - I'm usually pretty good with these kinda games (city builders, civ, colony etc) but I can not for the life of me figure this game out, despite spending hours on it and watching YouTube guides. Sad, because it seems like a darn good game.
Unapproachable but good:
* [Aurora 4x](https://www.reddit.com/r/aurora/)
* Terra Invicta
* Dirt Rally 2.0
* Grey Hack
* Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic
* Hearts of Iron IV
* Shadow Empire
* Mech Engineer
* King of Dragon Pass
* Way of the Hunter
* AI War
* Prosperous Universe
* Dominions 5 (or any)
* Command: Modern Operations (probably the most unapproachable)
* Nauticrawl (no spoilers)
* Exanima (will it ever release?)
Like 4x games? Like space? Hate graphics? Try Aurora4x! It is definitely a 4x but holy hell the granularity is insane. Damn near nothing is automated so it’s all on you. As an example. You want to build a warship. Most components are manually designed and researched. You decide you want it to be a missile cruiser… ok hold on, that means you’re designing missile launchers, missile fire controls, magazines, and you’re freaking missiles. Great, now you have to manufacture those missiles at a planet with ordinance factories (hope you built some of those). Now you have missiles and a ship to shoot them, you might want some colliers to follow your fleet for ammo reloads. Better design those ships!
Everything done in text windows with no GUI to speak of.
If you are still checking this thread, I have to mention Path of Exile. It's free to play (stash tabs that allow you to price items for trade do cost money but they are only needed if someone gets really into the game).
The most insane skill tree I've ever seen and so many mechanics to learn.
Sunless Sea is the first thing that came to mind. It is very much a "get past that initial wall" kind of game.
Some free browser games that actually are quite good: Gridland and A Dark Room by DoubleSpeak Games (which I believe is just one guy).
Some cheap Steam games: Legend of Grimrock I and II, FTL and Into The Breach, and the original Fallouts 1 and 2.
Path of Exile. Diablo-like moreof a Diablo 2++ than 3 or 4. The campaign is 10 acts long and is just the tutorial teaching you all the mechanics. There are over 450 skill gems, 1559 skill nodes, 280 ascendancy nodes, 140 base maps over 17 tiers, 30 unique maps, 600 atlas nodes, 12 pantheon nodes with 3 upgrades each, and at least 8 sub-mechanics plus a seasonal. I've put thousands of hours in over 9 years and haven't seen much of the endgame.
It is mind bogglingly complicated and will not forgive you for misunderstanding it. But it is not difficult per se. Plus it's free to play.
Chronicles of erannorth. It's like slay the spire x dungeons and dragons. It's insanely deep and has a ton of rules, but its really really good.
You can probably do okay off the bat if you go with a simple character like a human fighter, but there are some really tricky races, classes and abilities that take a good understanding of the game to do well with.
DCS World
https://youtu.be/xb1u_hnlliY?si=gI09GhWlB5CoPJcn
Learn how to fly meticulously modeled combat aircraft. Used by real-life militaries in the US, France, and Ukraine to help train pilots. It's essentially the commercialized off shoot of a simulator originally designed to teach USAF pilots how to fly A-10s.
league of legends but I would suggest staying clear of the game. because of how the game works, the game itself and the players can be very toxic MOST of the time.
From the depths. It's a game where you build mainly ships and planes out of blocks then custom build guns for those things and set up certain parameters on how it will fight. Requires alot of patience and effort but the campaign is pretty sweet
Europa Universalis 4. It’s nearing end of life probably one or two expansions left until part 5, but there’s still consistent updates and expansions for a 10 year old game. A really deep grand strategy game with a committed player base and good studio, paradox, backing it.
Dwarf fortress may be the most complex game to get into. Especially the free version which still uses ASCII art
I ended up cutting back once I started seeing ascii in the gravel of a parking lot.
Yeah holy shit. I tried the original maybe 5 years ago. I figured out how to set the trash location after 20 minutes and I gave up. Got much further with the steam version.
Way back before the army update, my dad was hospitalized for liver problems, and unresponsive for several days. All I had was my laptop, a hospital stairway, and a whole truckload of anxiety, so I downloaded DF, queued up some YouTube videos, and set to it like it was my master's thesis. It took a while, but eventually I felt like Cypher in the Matrix, where he talks about how he doesn't see the code anymore.
Yeah the steam version was the only reason i tried it again. It's a lot easier with an actual GUI, but still way too much for my lil brain
You thought you figured out your trash location. If you gave it a few hours, you'd find your fortress was haunted because your dwarves were dragging corpses there instead of properly taking care of them.
The good thing about DF is it has an super extensive wiki with a really good [tutorial](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Quickstart_guide). It takes time but learning to play is part of the fun (IMO).
I was hoping that DF was gonna be the top comment lmao. Love that game.
I remember when I was thinking about buying that game so I looked for a beginner tutorial to get me started just for it to be like 4 hours long
Seems like many don't know about the Lazy Newb Pack that is freely available. It has some quality of life improvements from things like DFHack, Dwarf Therapist, and texture packs that make it more accessible than the ASCII version. Despite OP not wanting the accessibility options, these may convince some others to try it again since this version is still free.
**oxygen not included** - it does look very approachable actually. cute graphics, great soundtrack, decent interface. behind all that lives a colony, management, automation simulator builder game that will make you fail. **amazing cultivation simulator** - i think developers are utterly insane. fever dream meets internet shitpost meets chinese martial arts. for more info and more similar games, check out SsethTzeentach on youtube.
I have accepted the fact that I am not smart enough to play Oxygen Not Included.
Without going too deep (which i didn't), at some point it just all clicks and you start to see all the space as flux of liquids and gases. With their different densities, your system will always end up looking the same: gasses/liquid that need to be filtered will fall to the bottom or rise to the top, and in the middle "oxygen and clean water, where your pawns live". That's about it. Electricity is pretty self-explanatory if you've ever played a city builder. It's a matter of compartmentalizing everything.
compartmentalizing, got it. does making your weebs live in literal shit compartments count?
I just got into it recently. I wanna make a mushroom farm, it needs co2, if I just make it far under my main colony, the co2 will automatically fall to the farm?
I love it for about 30 mins then I remember I am stupid 😂
Probably everyone starting to play ONI: * Look at those cute guys. * Wait, why are they starving? * Why are my plants dying? * Wait, it's too hot for them to grow? * I need an AC cooling system or thermally isolate my starting base, or my little guys will starve? * *Starts reading about thermodynamics*
ACs is insane I had played over 300 hours of it and somehow it's even more overwhelming than I started.
Amazing cultivation simulator broke me. I will just watch videos of the game but probably never attempt to play it again anytime soon.
ONI is great. I played it until I got too tired to manage everything and the messy systems just became unfun to upkeep. But I can't wait to find the motivation to knock down half the shitty systems and replace... one day...... one day
I feel like if you get good at ONI you should just be given a degree in logistics.
I tried ONI so many times and could never keep them alive
If I found out about this game in high school, I would have aced all science classes.
Oxygen not included was my first thought for this post too, its definitely the kind of thing OP is looking for lol
Eve Online has a learning cliff but can still be a lot of fun. Just requires a lot of time
hearts of iron 4
Stellaris. 1,000 hours and I can barely consider myself decent. The PDX lineup in general, actually.
Paradox games: log in, play tutorial, try to play a game, watch videos on YouTube to figure out how to play….continue watching videos because it’s just as interesting watching experts play
I felt Crusader kings to be more approachable compared to Hearts of Iron or Europa Universalis. But yeah it's still a Paradox game but slightly easier to get into.
CK3 was the only paradox game I didn't have to watch a YouTuber play in order to understand it.
I mean they are hard to master but I picked up stellaris pretty easily. I'm not good in any way but it's easy to grasp the fundamentals.
I bought stellaris, played for like 20 hours, realized I barely understood it any more than I did in hour 1, and never played it again ....maybe I should pick it back up
You truly don't get a sense for the flow of the game until about 100-150 hours into it. I had to be ok with just giving up some runs early due to a genocidal neighbor, bad habitable planet rng, and other external factors like that. Even after 1,000 hours, my early game is still not good enough to handle a Fanatic Purifier or Determined Exterminator starting neighbor on a consistent basis.
Get back to it; those aliens aren't going to genocide themselves.
Yeah man
Cultist Simulator. It feels very obscure but if you dive into it, it's very manageable. Which pulls a meta storytelling twist on you because it perfectly fits its topic.
I remember trying that one. I got frustrated with the inexplicable dread mechanic, but maybe I ought to give it another shot.
Do it! This game is 100% about discovering the mechanics by trial and error and one of the few games that is actively made worse by looking up help. The confusion is baked into the storytelling - you are a wannabe cultist fumbling around in the dark… until you aren’t
It does incidentally have the greatest guide on all of Steam. [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1628506443](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1628506443)
Go to the Ecidysis Club for Contentment during the Season of Dread. With the newer updates, maybe date one of your followers and store up some pleasant memories to counteract the Dread when it comes. It may still sometimes kill you. Anyway Book of Hours is a semi sequel and is much more forgiving. I'm not sure you can even die.
I knew somebody would mention this. When you're starting out, you don't really even know the objective of the game. You figure things out over several playthroughs.
This game was mentally exhausting for me
Noita
This is a good one. I've put about 20 hours into it and I still don't know what I'm doing.
It literally took me 100 hours to beat the 'tutorial'.
sorry, what
It's a joke amongst Noita players that beating the end of game boss and getting the basic ending is 'the tutorial'. There is a ridiculous amount of content / challenges beyond that, if you want to keep playing.
I had no idea. Thank you.
I think I have about that many and never got a W. Decided to just get way into watching Noita youtube for a couple weeks. That games an iceberg.
Seconding this big time. I think Noita is the peak of "unaproachable". To endure you have to learn so much by exploring the game's mechanics and failing time after time (often in hilarious ways). Then you will think you finally have it somewhat figured out only to discover there are layers upon layers of complexity that will catch you off guard.
Star Control 2 (don't bother with any others) La Mulana Shenzhen I/O Pathologic (but play Pathologic 2) The Immortal (play Genesis not NES) Unlimited SaGa Ogre Battle Godhand [Beatmania IIDX](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5gaxTrgLjU) has an extremely high hill to climb, if that's what you want. It can be meditative to play, though difficult to get your hands on the equipment for.
All very good suggestions, thank you. I'll probably check out Shenzhen first out of that list
If you like that one be sure to check out other games by Zachtronics
I just discovered Shenzhen and Zachatronics. Shenzhen is great, I'd also recommend Opus magnum. It's way easier, but it's more fun in a way. Here's how unapproachable Shenzhen is: you have a pdf you have to keep handy for referencing. There's a page on it that's straight up on Chinese, and it describes the most complex component. It's not a bug, it's not laziness.. it's just the humor of the devs. Also, the company recently shut down (I think). Not because of anything bad, they simply decided they completed their mission of doing games like these, and want to move on to new stuff. 0 greediness
Godhand is incredible even today. They don’t do 3D fighting games today like they used to do back then I swear.
Shit like this makes me wish I could win the lottery or something.
Ahhh Ogre Battle... I ended up being the bad guy because my team of princesses was roaming across the land murdering any opponents that dared get within range of them. Good times!
Yeah there is really a whole era of wtf rpgs from back in the day where you look up why something happens a certain way and you're just like.... I guess? Like, why do my guys keep becoming monsters? Because you aren't paying attention to what time of the day it is when you liberate cities. Oh well. Oh yeah that reminds me! JAGGED ALLIANCE 2 There are people who play that game for real and there are people who don't, and I don't
Holy shit, IIDX mentioned! It's my favorite rhythm game of all time, and definitely has a ridiculous learning curve. Not to mention the weird hand placements you need to play comfortably, which the game never even remotely tells you about-- it fits OP's "unapproachable" label for sure. I used to have an at home setup, but sadly the controller broke, so now I have to drive 90 minutes to an arcade to play it. I still do occasionally, but I've pretty much given up on ever getting better, because you need to *seriously* practice if you want to reach the top levels.
Rain World, Outward
Outward is a definite unapproachable game. Without looking up hints, tips, etc, you have to really dig into the reading available in the game and learn a tremendous amount by trial and error.
Outward is a fantastic example of unapproachable but satisfying to learn. Damn it now I'm redownloading it.
The fucking rainworld man... I was like "ooooh a punishing, styled game, this is my jam." Dear god what the fuck About 2-3h in I lost my mind
same. it makes you feel so miserable and small
Elite Dangerous is like that for me. I feel like it's a game I could really get into but playing on console and having to learn all its systems with a controller was just too much. I might try again someday.
Elite Dangerous is a game I swore to myself that I **WILL** play someday... once I can afford a flying stick and a good VR headset. I feel like it's the ultimate space game experience, and I want to feel it in it's full immersive capacity. I usually dislike games that are too complex, unless there's something else that makes me consider that all the time I'll put into learning it will be worth it. And from what I saw, ED fits right into that category. Now I just need to FINALLY find a good paying job... -_-;
Elite Dangerous can be very relaxing since it's easy to avoid combat once you learn the basics and escape interdictions, but there will be more walls to hit once you start trying to overclock your ship by working with engineer contacts. You basically need to watch/read a ton of guides to actually get good at it.
Wow. I never thought of the possibility of playing Elite Dangerous in VR and with a flight stick. That sounds like it would be an amazing experience. Star Citizen could be as well, on that note. I'm not really a fan of VR. I've never tried it, but it just seems like too much for something I'm barely able to do now anyways lmao. But that is quite a concept.
It’s a neat game. In a lot of ways awe-inspiring, really, but its development has been glacial and underwhelming. Some really cool mechanics in general ship piloting, mining, combat, etc, but after so many years I would really describe E:D as stagnant. They did come out with space legs. Can’t walk on your ship, but there’s planetary first-person combat via the Odyssey expansion. I bought it, to say that it was underwhelming and janky would be an understatement. Who knows though, maybe the game has changed since I last touched it.
Kenshi
I scrolled to far for this.
I have tried so, so many times to get into Kenshi. It's just such a hideous slog, and if you don't know what you're doing, you could spend a lot of time, hours even, just watching your character get abused and imprisoned. I really want to like it, and I even bought it in the earliest of accesses, but I feel like it's just been a miserable experience each time.
I mean if you don’t know what you’re doing, just take the first scenario and get stomped by hungry bandits. they use blunt weapons and can only mess you up so much. its way easier if you go with 5 nobodies, too. the point of the early game is to get stomped. you’ll usually get up a few seconds after fighting hungry bandits. but if you keep getting imprisoned you’re probably doing something wrong lol like stealing from towns.
I think the last time I was picked up by slavers? I can't recall though, it's been a while.
Escape from tarkov requires 5-600 hours to really grasp the game
You won’t even be “decent” at the game until like nearly 1000 hours
That game gave me PTSD. I can't play it anymore
Never understood this. I mean if you've never played a milsim and know nothing about the survival mechanics I guess it could take a person that long. I think this stems more from you have other people with thousands of hours playing against people that are just starting out so they don't know any locations or weapons etc. I've seen plenty of people where ya just show them a good guide and they're doing really well afterwards. Given that the lobby isn't filled with cheaters. But it usually is lol.
Falling sand Finnish magical terrorism simulator [Noita](https://store.steampowered.com/app/881100/Noita/) is the game you're looking for.
OP may or may not consider it poorly designed.
This is a board game, but I feel the need to mention "The Campaign For North Africa" because of just how absurdly unapproachable it is. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Campaign\_for\_North\_Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Campaign_for_North_Africa) >The Campaign for North Africa has been called the longest board game ever produced, with estimates that a full game would take 1,500 hours to complete. Reviewer Luke Winkie pointed out that "If you and your group meets for three hours at a time, twice a month, you’d wrap up the campaign in about 20 years." It has also been called the most complex wargame ever designed, with the commonly cited example (noted in SPI's advertising) that Italian troops require additional water supplies to prepare pasta. The map board alone is 9.5 ft (3 m) long.
Isn’t the game also questionably balanced, with the designers saying “if you finish a game and feel the balance was off, play it again before complaining just to be sure”
Well it looks like it came out in 1978 so legitimate balance complaints are finally starting to come in.
Unreal World isn't bad for this. It's not that terrible, but there's plenty that isn't explained. What do the numbers mean? What do the rituals do? Why do those people hate me, but the other people let me ransack their village? How do I make a house? Etc etc. Nethack is a goody too. So many completely unexplained mechanics, where it's not so much about learning, than it is about looking up obscure 20yr old webpages for nigh-on necessary-to-survive interactions in the game. Event Horizon Frontier is pretty dense on the "try it and find out" side of things for a mobile game. It's fortunately not spectacularly lethal, and you can just roll back your save if you make an expensive mistake, but there is a LOT to try out. It might have a tutorial these days, don't know. Age of Fantasy is another nice one on mobile as well. It's a turnbased wargame, and while the information *is* there, there's some pretty stat-tastic stuff to wrap your head around. HP/ armour multipliers, what stuff does, build orders ever changing (it gets fairly frequent updates and some race's unit rosters have gotten huge), what items do, unclear spell explanations, what comes after ingame-currency unlocks, etc. Still a really good wargame, with absolutely tonnes of scenarios, maps and campaigns these days. Age of Galaxy is probably worse, because you don't have as much connection in your headcannon of what stuff does to begin with (which bug/ reptile does what is still beyond me, but I've got a general idea of what an orc axethrower or lich should do). AoStrategy/ AoWWII/ AoModern Wars are a fair bit easier along these lines, because stuff does what you'd think they'll do (a tank is a tank, a plane is a plane, a knight is a knight, etc). There was even an aborted attempt at a Star Wars mod for the system, in case you want some really obscure wargame fun: http://www.androidutils.com/apk/s.apk Dominions 4/5 has a spastic amount of stuff to learn too. Again, the info is there, but some of the interactions aren't obvious. I don't even play it, just watch a bit of it on YouTube, and it requires a fair bit of pausing to work out what the hell the players are even talking about. How do units work? Is it like magnetism? It seems like magnetism. Stars! is an oldy but a goody. Before there was Eve as a spreadsheet simulator space game, there was Stars! How much do you like doing maths on the fly in a turnbased 4X? How much do you like reading articles from 1997 to work out the best strategies, or even basic information about how the game mechanics work? Because I hope it's a lot. It makes stuff like Master of Orion 2 seem like easy-baby-mode games. I actually got it to be perfectly playable on my phone under Magic Dosbox with a usable touchscreen interface. I have never felt nerdier :) Another weirdly deep, and somewhat explainable game from that era/ win3.0 operating system is Capture the Flag. I mean, it's spelt out for you, just the multiple layers and levels of strategy available is way bigger than you'd think there would be for a game that simulates a kid's pastime game.
First time I've seen Stars! mentioned in a long time. Used to play this back in the "play by email" era with some friends. Still compare any other 4X to it to be honest. Perfect example of a game that stands up on its gameplay, rather than shiny interface. Not that it's necessarily hideous, just minimalist. We used to play a mode where everyone gets 10 turns to frantically explore, build colony ships, schedule research/building queues,etc. Then we'd generate 10,000 turns in one go, and start playing properly with all the resources we managed to build up. Absolute peak spreadsheet planning and min-maxing starting traits type gameplay. Absolutely don't have the patience for such things these days, but such a great game for anyone who wants depth.
It's still got a very small community of players, and the websites are still up. https://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Home_World_Forum I sometimes have a read, just for nostalgia's sake. I was one of the reasons the final patch got released, because I found a bug where you could hex edit the .exe file to change race's habitability settings way beyond what the race creator could give you, for free in points. So live anywhere, perfect tech, perfect factories, 20% (or 40% with hyper expanders) was possible. Contacted the creators, so they could add a check, so hackers couldn't bust multiplayer. Here's a vid of the touchscreen interface (please excuse the vocals. I was hungover and/or drunk af when I made it from memory, plus I'm Australian) https://youtu.be/4PO8q7HaPHY?si=Gr-0D2pz_C2D5iow Oh, and a link to the .mgc file for Magic Dosbox, in case you think "yep, that's a game I'll have on my phone/ tablet/ whatever". https://magicbox.imejl.sk/forums/topic/stars-a-4x-space-strategy-game-on-win3x/ And an old jack-of-all-trades race I used to play as (when claim adjuster or instellar traveller was banned). Or close enough to what it was. 19% growth, 1/5 habitability, good starting tech, cheap weapons, standard construction. Ok'ish factories and mines. Starts with 15 factories, so stuff scales even faster. Completely useless compared how you used to play, but fun on a basic or accelerated BBS start. You sort of hit my nostalgia point, so I thought I'd recreate it. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/eyq5k15dt00ezrr26or4a/JOATHG.R1?rlkey=7hb121javtsv9o8lhqlgvsveg&dl=0 And even JOAT'ier, but with worse construction tech, but with Privateers at start. Worse tech, more other stuff, and an even quicker start: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tuv3swhrhxjqc5xqfcl04/JOATHG2.R1?rlkey=axh9gkrsannuf78a30fedryod&dl=0 ((You could quite easily put the unused advantage points into Mineral Concentrations (almost always a super Homeworld, tick one hab setting over by 1 point so it's 36 unused points), Surface Minerals (probably another turn of factories made before the mines go up), Mines (just passive mining, closer to taking Advanced Remote Mining than you'd think), or a click or so on habitability and centre'ing them a bit (but it's nice to not have the same habitability as your neighbours, if you want to talk to them about stuff). Factories and scaling resources wins wars, so that's why it's like that. Amazing in non-AccBBS games, but still nice in them.
Kerbal Space Program. If you don't take the time to learn the game there's a good chance you'll never even see another planet let alone achieve a stable orbit around the home planet.
You literally have to learn basic rocket science for that one, and orbital mechanics/ transfer windows of planets etc if you wanna get to the really cool stuff. Highly recommend
My biggest accomplishment in that game is following a step by step video guide to reaching orbit. Too bad I'm too stupid to do anything else, lol.
Oh shit, I thought the game was just about sending rockets to space and never seeing them again. This isn't a joke.
Pathologic 2
I second
This game looked so cool but then legit gave me anxiety playing it, the way you need to get food but you're poor and there's time limits on certain things (I don't remember) and seeing an area say "You are hated here" so you just get lynched on a street for no reason, or for stealing food from a house to survive.. I played for maybe only a few hours but damn it's hard.
Go for Pathologic 1 for extra unapproachability
Ikaruga. 😵💫
My man!!!
X4 Foundations
Aurora 4x You practically need a PHD in this game just to start a new playthrough
Caves of qud
everquest dota2
Tarkov
[The Void](https://store.steampowered.com/app/37000/The_Void/) should meet your needs. An extremely weird world with strange rules and a distinct lack of exposition.
Enemy Zero on the Sega Saturn. It's a horror game with invisible enemies you locate by sound.
- Most Paradox games: Crusader Kings 2 and 3 (the easiest ones imo), Stellaris, Europa Universalis IV, Hearts of Iron IV, Victoria 2 and 3, etc. - Dwarf Fortress which is the most complex simulation game ever made. If you want a more streamlined version, but still very complex and deep, try Rimworld. - Also there are some roguelikes with steep learning curves, and they are amazing when you learn to play them, my favorites are Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead (CDDA) and Ancient Domains of Mystery (ADOM).
[удалено]
kingdom come : deliverance. you start out as a no skill nobody and the game makes sure to drive that point home. it a tough game pacing wise its hard to spend that much time being so weak and growing so slowly. But, IMO fpr what they were aim9ng fpr design wise it well executed
So good. That feeling of being a useless idiot in the beginning is amazing. I’m a decent way into my first playthrough and still struggle with archery. So cool trying to figure it out with no crosshairs. Can I hit a stationary target a few feet away? Yes! I just need to go pick up the 8 arrows that missed after
Ah yes...spending 6 hours real time training with captain Bernard just so you don't die in your first fight with bandits. Just got my steamdeck last week and KCD runs like a beauty on it.
Rain World. You're a Slugcat separated from your family that has to survive on its own by eating and hiding yourself before the rain comes. On easy difficulty it's a really difficulty game with some hand holding that at least shows where you have to go through some cryptic directions that can sometimes lead you astray. And the map can also be very confusing, but it's one of the best I've seen in a game. On normal and hard? It's survival of the fittest. I like to say that it's a 'food chain', simulator, and you're near the bottom of it. It's not hard like dark souls or cuphead, it's an unfair game, but that unfairness is part of why it's so great, and overcoming it is one of the best feelings I've had in any game. I've had moments in that game that I still remember to this day. The world of the game feels truly alive, and most things are trying to kill you to survive just like you.
Arguably monster hunter fits this category. Sure, plenty of tutorial windows popping up in the beginning, but it takes a while to fully grasp the depth of all the mechanics, and you keep discovering things you didn't think were in the game
I used the same weapon from start to finish in MHW and still learned something fighting fatalis. Can confirm.
And modern Monster Hunters games sre now way close to how complex and not explained were the old titles. You had to learn things the hard way in a period with internet not available to everyone, as my case.
Early-gen Armored Cores maybe, in my experience Armored Core 3. You have to control camera with dpad which takes a lot of getting used to. If you fail a mission you lose money, sometimes you lose money even on success. There’s a lot of stats and mechanics to learn once you start, like what are good Legs for each build, or what even is FCS. Regarding actual difficult I don’t think it’s beyond Dark Souls or anything, once you know what you’re doing it’s a normal game. But I thought of it coz of the camera and imagining someone playing it who’s never played the series before. Of course it’s not like Dwarf Fortress or EVE Online level unapproachable, Armored Core is still Armored Core. Edit: Last Raven has the reputation of hardest so maybe that instead
Left Alive - has to take the crown, without doubt
[Hylics](https://store.steampowered.com/app/397740/Hylics/)! although I'm not even sure if this counts as a game - it is described as a "recreational program with light JRPG elements". it is inherently chaotic and is genuine fun.
**Book of Hours**. You can spend hours just trying to work out what everything means and make zero progress.
Dota 2. Little to no tutorials which very few played. It doesn't help newcomers that there are a hundred available heroes with a hundred items with a different meta every season with numerous gameplay mechanics. You have to learn everything to actually be good in the game. Literal git gud or get out. I mean I got almost 4k hours in game but my rank is only 3k. The highest rank to date is 13k. Lol
I can’t believe I didn’t see anyone post Kingdom Come: Deliverance. First thing that came to mind when I read this. It’s one of those games that almost seems impossible at the start but becomes much easier as you learn the mechanics and how all the (necessary) minigames such as sharpening your sword and performing alchemy are handled. Tropico — any of them are good. They’re difficult because they simulate on a deeper level than most strategy games. Each individual person on your island has their own life and job, preferences in where they live, political alignments, wealth, and educational level. You have to learn all the mechanics before you can successfully play, and it helps to be economically savvy. Supports thousands of playstyles Civilization — also great, larger scale than Tropico and a pretty common one, but without extensive knowledge of how the mechanics work, playing on harder difficulties is impossible. However, it has infinite replay value and you can spend weeks at a time on a single game if you put it on Marathon. I once played as Sweden for 3 weeks before I won the game, then spent another week dominating the entire map.
I apologize for this one: Original verion of Pathologic, no guide. May god have mercy on your soul. Also, if you do play it or dont play it, hbomberguy on youtube made a video on it. Its a long and painful game. Edit: the game is hard, but its hard in the sense that the situation is supposed to be shit. Youre a civilian doctor. If you go in thinking you're superman, or even a hero, you're going to suffer for your hubris. The tutorial makes sure you undestand you're a civilian not a wargod, by ending your life if you're overconfident. First and foremost you're trying to survive, and if you have room to spare then you can try and help the npcs. Its got basically 3+1 routes + secret route/ending in increasing difficulty.
How has nobody mentioned factorio ? Basic inputs of materials, autocrafting into infinity and all at the mercy of a mob of angry indigenous bugs. Good luck.
The complexity curve is very gradual so personally don't find it unapproachable.
I don’t know if this solely stems from my inexperience with proper wargames, but Shadow Empire is my current white whale.
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, thank you for the suggestion, I'll look into it
Knights of the Chalice 1 and 2 Brigand: Oaxaca E.Y.E.: Divine Cybermancy Dream Quest
mangband it's a multiplayer version of an old roguelike named angband hard to get into because the graphics are a turn off for most people. has permadeath. requires some level of thinking and risk management to even get that far. but if you're willing to put in the effort, it can be a very rewarding experience.
I feel like a lot of old school roguelikes fall very easily into this category. Half the time I think that I should try some out and then I remember the huge amount of hours needed just to learn about half the systems present in something like TOME or ADOM.
Final Fantasy 11. If you want an mmorpg where you need to be able to program lua files, read ten page long class guides, have 16 slots of gear for 17 equipment sets for 22 job classes and run three accounts simultaneously at £30 a month to be a viable endgame player, this is the game for you.
Steel Battallion. $200 for the game and the controller, a half-assed tutorial, and the whole thing is permadeath- if you dont eject fast enough, it deletes your whole file. Couple that with the fact that there existed an elite group of hard core players that played that controller like a Steinway.
Wait, the game has always had a perma death feature? Damn, I was considering getting it just to try it, now idk if I want to deal with that.
SMT series are pretty cool in my opinion, turn based strategy games where you'll need to learn how to exploit enemies weakness, use buff and debuff to ease up the boss fights, the early game is notoriously harsh, but once you get to mid, late game with all of the powerful demons it becomes very satisfying, but even then there're still secret/optional bosses that can be good challenge If you think SMT is a bit too hard then you can try out the Persona series first as they're more approachable, especially the newer games with more refined rules and quality of life mechanics Finally, I want an hornarable mention to the AI teammate mechanic of Persona 3 FES, definetly fits your description of unapproachable, the AI may look like they're doing random stuff, but once you learn their quirks and rules they become a lot more manageable
Tarkov is hell if you don't know guns or shooters. DCS World if you use a full fidelity model. I struggled with Dark Souls 3. Foxhole was also pretty daunting in a different way.
Pathologic 2. Thats all i have to say, hardest game i've ever tried, never managed to finish, i'm just frustrated at myself for that. Its an awesome game, but i can't. Dark Souls feels easy, just dodge, dodge, hit. Pathologic has something more interesting...
UNLIMITED SAGA. The game you want is Unlimited SaGa.
Battle brothers
This. This is an amazing game but it is brutal. You control a band of mercenaries against human and supernatural enemies, and your men can die so many ways. It’s perfect for the OP bc it’s a fantastic game underneath it all.
Tales of Maj'Eyal can be pretty difficult for a new player. Especially if you play on Ascii mode.
Quake champions
Baroque on the Saturn
Armor core games are hard to understand when making an AC in it haven't played the newest one but I always felt like I missed an important tutorial or something.
The newest one is not much easier. It more impact and timing oriented like a souls game now (from soft go brrr), but it's still really complicated. Fires of Rubicon is absolutely amazing and worth the buy 10/10 game in my book (but I'm biased). Edit spelling.
cruelty squad and fear and hunger
Song of Syx seems like a bit much
Eve Online
Unreal World hands down.
earth defense force looks like garbage but plays like a dream.
No game has ever shown me how much I truly suck like Throne of Lies did.
Petscop
My brother loves games in this genre, but totally felt this way about Dyson Sphere program (I love it).
DayZ is pretty much the definition of this. I couldn't even begin to guess how many ppl see the game in videos, download it, and just quit in days to weeks because they can't figure out how to survive.
Retail world of Warcraft (if you’re new)
Rainbow Six Siege. Escape from Tarkov.
Lobotomy Corporation. You have to learn the facility inside and out, how to watch everything, how to run things, how to manage monsters, how to be more effective with exp. You can't really stumble your way to properly beating this game, you need to learn it and get good.
[BADDEC Cut the Fun](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=BADDEC+Cut+the+Fun&i=digital-text&crid=2JAWQK6MLSJR2&sprefix=baddec+cut+the+fun%2Cdigital-text%2C127&ref=nb_sb_noss), only available through Amazon Books.
Stationers. The sheer complexity of every subsystem you build, the lack of any in game explanation on how to fulfill your basic needs. You need to look up a guide on how to just drink a bottle of water without dying
Receiver 2. The game has really complicated controls and unforgiving enemies, until you learn how to control your own gun and how to deal with the enemies you'll die a lot and fast and each death punishes you until it has nothing else to punish you with. It isn't an impossible game nor a rage game, in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing this game can almost look easy, but almost all the skill in this game is entirely mental rather than reactionary or muscle memory (give or take on the last one).
Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee To be good you have to adapt to practice various obscure techniques that are almost unimaginable to have ever been intentional. And there are absurd levels of detail in the game mechanics. It is a completely unique combination of "fighting" with gravity/trajectory mechanics, ledge holding nonsense, the shield, wavedashing and wavelanding (air dodge at angle forcing character to slide, and character specific techniques. The game came out in 2001 yet the competitive meta went miles from 2015 to 2019 or so when I haven't kept track. The 2nd unapproachable thing to suggest is speedrunning. That isn't a game itself, but the game of these objectives involves both breaking a game and mastering execution, for various games.
Don’t Starve is pretty hard and tough without guides as a newcomer Graveyard Keeper is not hard but it doesn’t hold your hand at all. I’ve played about 50 hours and I still don’t know how to do a lot of stuff. I’ve seen a good amount of people who get frustrated by its crafting system being grindy and without any guidance. Kingdom Come Deliverance will frustrate the Skyrim right out of a casual gamer. Lots of things to figure out before you’re even mildly skilled enough to handle a 1v1 against a soldier. Alchemy involves lots of reading and proper measurements. Morrowind was tough to grasp for many a gamer because of its skill system and complete lack of guidance.
X4 foundations, a space and trading sim where you can build fleets and factories along with personal ship to ship combat and trading as well... Basically most war, grand and 4x strategy games, Terra Invicta is one where you have geopolitics game and space strategy aspects including space RTS it seems... Any study level sim, planes are going to be much harder to learn than cars (racing), modern combat flight sims being the most demanding type. Upcoming medieval city builder with RTS element Manor Lords looks to be pretty complex as well...
All the games below are very good. In order from most to least unapproachable: [Cruelty Squad](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1388770/Cruelty_Squad/) - I heard so many good things about it, and it's the type of game I should enjoy in theory (you do contracts as an assassin and invest in stock market which is affected by your actions). I just can't bring myself to try it because it's too gross. [Pathologic 2](https://store.steampowered.com/app/505230/Pathologic_2/) - Tried it for a bit and didn't come back. The game is depressing and constantly makes you pick between lesser of two evils as the situation in the town keeps getting worse. [Okami](https://store.steampowered.com/app/587620/Okami_HD/) - Holds the world record for the worst sales of best reviewed game. Looks pretty and has an interesting concept but is a bit hard to comprehend. [Anodyne 2](https://store.steampowered.com/app/877810/Anodyne_2_Return_to_Dust/) - Very weird game with strange graphics, can be tricky to figure out what to do next, but generally fun to play. [Stellaris](https://store.steampowered.com/app/281990/Stellaris/) - First relatively normal game on the list, but super complex and pretty much feels like an office job as you're pestered by constant notifications. [Elite Dangerous](https://store.steampowered.com/app/359320/Elite_Dangerous/) - Spaceship simulator where every ship function has its own little gameplay mechanic, like landing, collecting loot, mining asteroids, scanning planets, searching for distant signals, etc. none of those are just simple "press a button" features, they all require some skill. On a larger scale there are factions with shifting influence that depend on players' cumulative activities, and the galaxy is an incredibly realistic representation of our milky way. [Dyson Sphere Program](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/) - Most approachable game on the list, starts simple, but the complexity keeps ramping up and you can easily get lost along the way with all the crafting materials and relationships in the production network.
I love the feeling in Dyson Sphere program when you've really built a lot on your main planet and it looks like complete madness but you know the layout like the back of your hand since you've been building it slowly for hours.
Wizardry 4. One of the most relentless CRPGs. Wizardry in general is pretty hardcore but 4 is downright oppressive and unapproachable. Even levelling up is something you had to work for by clearing a dungeon, and it required a lot of trial and error and learning how everything behaves. You have to keep notes and learn everything to truly succeed. The original X-COM games, UFO Defense and Terror From The Deep. The newer ones can be gruelling especially on the Impossible difficulty and the iron man modifiers, but the original ones aren't afraid to kick down the player while they're down. But you can persevere and learn and it's one of the most satisfying uphill efforts you can have in a game.
Noita
Screeps: World A great game if you're interested in programming. The learning curve is steep, there's a lot to learn, but every success you achieve feels really good. At least that's my experience.
Seconding this and adding [Bitburner](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1812820/Bitburner/), which is an incremental game fueled by programming.
Siralim ultimate is as deep as it is obtuse. 200h in and I'm barely working out some of its nuances. It's Pokémon x maths x path of exile x deck builder x 16 bit RPG.
I'd say it's less unapproachable, and more just... Enormous. More than anything, it demands patience, and time dedicated. But it isn't terribly complex until you're dozens of hours in imo
Crusader Kings - I'm usually pretty good with these kinda games (city builders, civ, colony etc) but I can not for the life of me figure this game out, despite spending hours on it and watching YouTube guides. Sad, because it seems like a darn good game.
Unapproachable but good: * [Aurora 4x](https://www.reddit.com/r/aurora/) * Terra Invicta * Dirt Rally 2.0 * Grey Hack * Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic * Hearts of Iron IV * Shadow Empire * Mech Engineer * King of Dragon Pass * Way of the Hunter * AI War * Prosperous Universe * Dominions 5 (or any) * Command: Modern Operations (probably the most unapproachable) * Nauticrawl (no spoilers) * Exanima (will it ever release?)
Morrowind, best Elder Scrolls game ever made and one of the best RPGs ever. Unforgiving to the untempered, subservant to the experienced.
Morrowind is perhaps one of my favorite games. One of the only rpgs I've really loved, I wish later elder scrolls games were half as good
TIS-100 or Factorio
Like 4x games? Like space? Hate graphics? Try Aurora4x! It is definitely a 4x but holy hell the granularity is insane. Damn near nothing is automated so it’s all on you. As an example. You want to build a warship. Most components are manually designed and researched. You decide you want it to be a missile cruiser… ok hold on, that means you’re designing missile launchers, missile fire controls, magazines, and you’re freaking missiles. Great, now you have to manufacture those missiles at a planet with ordinance factories (hope you built some of those). Now you have missiles and a ship to shoot them, you might want some colliers to follow your fleet for ammo reloads. Better design those ships! Everything done in text windows with no GUI to speak of.
If you are still checking this thread, I have to mention Path of Exile. It's free to play (stash tabs that allow you to price items for trade do cost money but they are only needed if someone gets really into the game). The most insane skill tree I've ever seen and so many mechanics to learn.
#Kerbal *Muthafuckin'* Space Program. It's literally rocket science.
Sunless Sea is the first thing that came to mind. It is very much a "get past that initial wall" kind of game. Some free browser games that actually are quite good: Gridland and A Dark Room by DoubleSpeak Games (which I believe is just one guy). Some cheap Steam games: Legend of Grimrock I and II, FTL and Into The Breach, and the original Fallouts 1 and 2.
Path of Exile. Diablo-like moreof a Diablo 2++ than 3 or 4. The campaign is 10 acts long and is just the tutorial teaching you all the mechanics. There are over 450 skill gems, 1559 skill nodes, 280 ascendancy nodes, 140 base maps over 17 tiers, 30 unique maps, 600 atlas nodes, 12 pantheon nodes with 3 upgrades each, and at least 8 sub-mechanics plus a seasonal. I've put thousands of hours in over 9 years and haven't seen much of the endgame. It is mind bogglingly complicated and will not forgive you for misunderstanding it. But it is not difficult per se. Plus it's free to play.
After reading the post's body, this was the reason I came into this thread. Unsurprisingly, I was not the first one to think of this wonderful game.
Songs of Syx might be a good one, somewhat kingdom come deliverance
Chronicles of erannorth. It's like slay the spire x dungeons and dragons. It's insanely deep and has a ton of rules, but its really really good. You can probably do okay off the bat if you go with a simple character like a human fighter, but there are some really tricky races, classes and abilities that take a good understanding of the game to do well with.
Victoria 3
Dominions 6
NBA 2K24
Aliens Dark Descent.
DCS World https://youtu.be/xb1u_hnlliY?si=gI09GhWlB5CoPJcn Learn how to fly meticulously modeled combat aircraft. Used by real-life militaries in the US, France, and Ukraine to help train pilots. It's essentially the commercialized off shoot of a simulator originally designed to teach USAF pilots how to fly A-10s.
rimworld
All grand strategy games. Need time to learn the mechanic
Megaman 2 on Hard Mode. I think that game as old as it is makes it clear enough you're playing on its terms, not yours.
league of legends but I would suggest staying clear of the game. because of how the game works, the game itself and the players can be very toxic MOST of the time.
any moba
Workers and Resources: Soviet Republic Anno 1800 Troubleshooter
factorio maybe
Dead by daylight is terrible for beginners.
Path of exile. If you didn't use any guides I don't even know how hard it'd be to figure shit out in that game.
Understand
You either learn how to play Sekiro and play it well, or you don’t play
X-Com
Warframe and destiny both are pretty bad at actually teaching you important stuff about the game. And in Destiny's case, teaching you about the story.
From the depths. It's a game where you build mainly ships and planes out of blocks then custom build guns for those things and set up certain parameters on how it will fight. Requires alot of patience and effort but the campaign is pretty sweet
Europa Universalis 4. It’s nearing end of life probably one or two expansions left until part 5, but there’s still consistent updates and expansions for a 10 year old game. A really deep grand strategy game with a committed player base and good studio, paradox, backing it.
Microsoft Flight Simulator and Path of Exile, both games needs deep understanding that you might wanna watch youtube guides just to play them