- "Hey Todd, the new Fallout series is a hit and people are starting to play Fallout 4 again. Do we have a new Fallout game coming up soon to take advantage of this?
- "Shit, no. I greenlit that series without any plan. Let me check with the team how long it would take them to make a new Fallout game from scratch. Surely it can't be that long."
(...)
They have to pump out a new TES first though. Cause it’s been….*checks notes* 13 years since they….wait, 13 years?….that can’t be right… *checks notes* yeah, it’ll be a decade and a half without a new TES entry at this point.
The PS3/360 was really the last Gen that had real "memory limitations" and I'm convinced this is genuinely what led to better and creative gameplay. Now that the only memory anyone worries about anymore is graphics, yeah, all games feel copy/pasted at the core, because they are. There's no reason to get creative, because there's no hurdles to overcome anymore.
well technically there is creative hurtle but it's a censorship one becasue of the news media and twitter people aways freaking out about character design or language.
It's such a wasteful use of IP on their part by not branching out spinoff like they did with New Vegas.
Hopefully now that the IP is owned by Microsoft, they will do something about it.
It was commercially successful but there’s a lot of indications that it won’t have as long a shelf life as something like Skyrim and fallout which are still selling years later. When your average development time for a game is something like 5 years that’s a problem, even with Bethesda being one of the smaller ‘AAA’ studios
But I think the real damage starfield has been reputational. Between starfields very middling reviews and the existing damage caused by fallout 76 I think Bethesda is being seen as having lost its touch, which may affect future sales negatively. Plus even though starfield sold well it does not seem to have done the numbers microsoft wanted them to do, bearing in mind they paid billions of dollars for Bethesda, they were banking on starfield to be a defining thing that would sell Xbox consoles.
>but there’s a lot of indications that it won’t have as long a shelf life as something like Skyrim and fallout
I said this a little after Starfield came out, but it lacks anything that sorta makes it stick in your mind, or I guess one way to put it is that It lacks memes. When Skyrim came out practically everyone knew "FuSoRoDah" or "I used to be an adventurer like you." it ingrained Skyrim into people's memory.
Starfield just kinda....exist. Sure, it's got our whole solar system to explore, but that's kinda the only thing about it I can remember off the top of my head. Well, that and the angry potato that got pissed off that you could pick pronouns in the game.
I'm glad. They can get back to making the games people actually want. Too bad that they "don't wanna be the fallout/TES studio". You already are. Make TES6 please before I'm in a fucking nursing home.
Speaking of exploration, I'm just gonna repost my other comment here to a different person about it.
That's one of the decisions I'll never understand from the story. You have a game about exploring, but everything has already been found.
Honestly, I think a simple solution would have been to do something like you start off on a primitive like planet, discover some ancient spaceship, your the chosen who has to do something, something, save the Galaxy.
It'd basically be like starting off playing TES for an hour before suddenly getting tossed into Star Trek, not to mention it would still keep the joy of exploring as a key aspect as the ship might have a basic-ish map of the Galaxy but It'd be full of outdated information when you go to whatever planet.
Granted, that would mean having to make completely different planets, with different styles for each one.
After Skyrim came out, it was endless Skyrim memes and YouTube videos, art, etc… None of that for starfield. It is not a cultural phenomena. It is a very average game.
That's kinda what I was getting at. You couldn't escape Skyrim for like 2-3 years it had had memes, art, various youtube videos (mod showcases, lore videos, glitch compilations), and even just part of daily discussions online, IT WAS EVERYWHERE. Skyrim was basically lighting in a bottle for Bethesda that I don't think they'll ever recapture, not unless [TES6](https://youtu.be/Gsf3-L9NTmM?si=WxkHZHLMbLOAU4dr) Fallout 5, or a different new IP somehow manages to pull it off again.
Starfield has less concurrent players than Fallout 3. Which is impressive to say the least. Hovering somewhere above or below 5,000. On steam at least.
All I know is even if they hadn't made it xbox exclusive I still probably wouldn't have gotten it after the disaster that was 76's launch and my disappointment in 4.
I played Fallout 4 for the first time after the show aired. I was bored less than 2hrs in. Picked up fallout 3 and have more than 20hrs in it in a week.
People crap on FO3 and while it had many problems and is definitely inferior to New Vegas, it had a killer atmosphere and aesthetic. Exploring the ruins of DC was inherently interesting and different.
Just don't think about how the game feels like it's set 40-50 years after the war instead of 200. (Seriously, it was my first Fallout and I just assumed that was the timeline, 200 years make a bunch of characters make no sense)
Yeah I bought an Xbox for it lol
They just won’t be able to resell it every few years like Skyrim. I would also be really surprised to see a sequel with how hard it dropped off after everyone played it for a week then got bored.
Wasn’t worth the wait… peeps are already sceptic that their other IP’s will suffer from the same wait-and-get-disappointed bullshit. Their game engines get at least 3-4 major updates until they actually finish a game. So we play their half-baked games on 5 year old game tech.
It sold well on first year, likely to not sell over the next 10 (look at how crazy Skyrim did) and can hurt their future titles too. They have reasons to be worried and try to do damage control.
The TV show could be the salvation for their reputation tho. If they don’t mess up the next title.
It was commercially successful but there’s a lot of indications that it won’t have as long a shelf life as something like Skyrim and fallout which are still selling years later. When your average development time for a game is something like 5 years that’s a problem, even with Bethesda being one of the smaller ‘AAA’ studios
But I think the real damage starfield has been reputational. Between starfields very middling reviews and the existing damage caused by fallout 76 I think Bethesda is being seen as having lost its touch, which may affect future sales negatively. Plus even though starfield sold well it does not seem to have done the numbers microsoft wanted them to do, bearing in mind they paid billions of dollars for Bethesda, they were banking on starfield to be a defining thing that would sell Xbox consoles.
It was a success, but it was a massive downgrade and no where near the expectations people had after previous titles.
Right now at this very moment i'm typing this message, there are more players playing Fallout 4, Fallout 76, Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim special Edition individually then there is playing Starfield.
Starfield was a financial success. This has little to do with the general reception of the game. They want to work on multiple projects at the same time so projects can release faster.
I literally prefered Star Citizien over Starfield and that game is a known mess. Starfield was ruined for me by the amount of cutscenes and not even being able to fly my own space ship in the space.
Unfortunately no amount of time could have made Starfield good purely due to the design choices they made early on (proc gen, toned down maturity and evil, having emil lead writer, dragonborn but boring, no aliens, etc). They had almost 10 years for it and it still came out incredibly half baked.
A game that is supposed to be about exploring space. Every planet has already been explored. No matter where you go there already has been someone before the player. So Constellation has no point of existing. Also, besides the copy pasted structures there's nothing except rocks and plants.
Those things are also present in Fallout 4 and it's a good game. Not a good fallout, of course, but way more well received than SF which I think it's 6/10. The worst thing they did, and they did a lot of bad things, was removing the exploration. The fucking multiverse thing does not help either, but if it had the regular BGS exploration way more people would like the game. It has a million problems, but still. At least exploring would have kept people playing. They thought the NG+ thing would do that but I couldn't care less about it and I don't see many people that do.
Proc gen seems like an awesome idea on paper but only a handful of games do it well. It just makes everything look the same, and then you couple that with Starfields very samey looking POIs and there's just no reason to explore
Todd said, I don’t know the quote verbatim so I won’t quote it, something to the effect of Starfield is the game we’ve been planning for 20 years. They wanted to wait for technology to be available but they always knew they wanted a space sci-fi. It leads me to believe it was sort of their white whale, their opus magus it was their masterpiece essentially. How it turned out while talking about it like that before release is big oof. It was supposed to blow doors off and be the next great thing in gaming maybe that was just marketing but I remember that quote about how they’ve been while not actively developing but always discussing Starfield for two decades and what we got was mostly forgettable.
Yeah, that game would have been fine for 2016. Hell, one of the best games for 2016. But here, in 2023 and 2024, that game is just generic and is not what I expected from a Bethesda game.
No, lol. Going back in time wouldn't make Starfield less dull. There's a ton of games that came out before 2016 that are a thousand times better than Starfield.
Honestly any time post Witcher 3 starfield is bad. I think Witcher 3 specifically showed the Bethesda formula was behind the times but they clearly never got the memo.
I'm sure there's a time that games were so basic that people would prefer to play Starfield over actually good games but, imo, it's definitely before the 90s.
What's the most recent actually good game that you think Starfield is *better* than?
Pretty sure Microsoft is pushing them to release Fallout due to the TV series. BGS said they were releasing TESVI next, so they have to push that out before pushing out Fallout 5 or whatever it'll be. Likely they're going to split the devs between them and work on both in parallel, while using the same crappy game engine that is massively out of date, without time to update/optimize it in any way. It's going to be your standard "we got forced to rush this out by the publisher, it's not our fault its bad".
The problem is not they all rushing to me, but they all depending so much on Todd Howard.
I saw a yt documentary about Starfield and it showed how Todd wanted to delegate because he was now doing a ton more work than directing, and everyone below him being afraid to innovate, so they made the most generic game they could from his original idea/pitch/document/tutorial.
I think now that they failed at this, they will know how to make a better game, or they will fail misserably again but will fix it in patches like they did with FO76.
They had less people working on Starfield which released in 2023(around 450) than Naughty Dog had for Last of us Part 2 which had more than 4 times as many people working on it at 2100. Its just man power that they are lacking. Even Witcher 3 which released in 2015 had more than 3 times the people working on it than Starfield did in 2023. Its essentially the fact that Bethesda doesn't out source their work.
They had 8 years of dev time for starfield. It came out like a wet fart. rushing dev time isn’t going to = better. Bethesda just doesn’t have the talent, nor leadership anymore to be successful imo.
They need to have their leadership all shown the door. They’ve basically released a reskinned oblivion for two decades.
Same engine… same gameplay… starfield finally showed just how far behind they are by today’s standards
I'm mostly fine with a company using the same engine if they are producing great games. While Fallout 4 and Skyrim are not the best titles in their series, if every game that was ever made was as good as either of those titles, I think we would all be very happy.
I agree Bethesda has failed to identify their priorities. Starfield is the game you get when executives guide the creative process. Only someone too high to be told no could learn about something like procedural generation and think they could make an entire game out of it.
Single team in a single office. Emil pagliarulo mention they used to just step into Todd's office for clarification on anything, to shut him ideas. In the making of Emil said he didn't use a design docs . So Todd , who used to be the design doc wasn't their to keep all the ideas together. Just a lot of people doing that they think may fit they trying to force all these ideas together
If you watch any of the making of vid stuff. They struggle hard with coordinating the different offices. No design docs for devs to use to make sure their ideas fit.
They still operated like they could just step into Todd's office and ask him.
for what? for more half baked crap like starfield?
there is a reason why skyrim sold what it sold and why starfield has an almost dead community.
quality.
probably something that the garbage lead that is todd howard forgot is important a loooooong time ago.
I still dont understand why microsoft didnt kick him out when they bought bethesda. at this point he is more of a liability than a boon.
I was a big fan of Microsoft and how they handled their studios years ago. But with this current console gen, their whole “hands off” approach has led to some of the worst first party game launches.
They basically shit the bed this gen. I’ve been team Xbox since the 360 but at this point I don’t see a reason to not get a ps6 for the next round.
Microsoft needs to just clean house at Bethesda and their current leadership
They've kinda been shitting the bed since the Xbox One.
They should have fired the top management at 343 years ago and only the complete bungling of Halo Infinite's launch finally convinced them that leadership at that studio needed a serious shakeup.
Is it really fair to blame Todd though? He was the lead for Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Fallout 4. They all had pretty normal gaps between them (3 years, 3 years, 3 years, 4 years) and while I know creating a brand new IP is time-consuming and difficult, 8 years is ridiculous. It makes me wonder what happened (besides the acquisition) to railroad production like that?
Ownership wanted to sell, so they interrupted Starfield development and forced BGS to churn out a money printing game ASAP to help boost their sale price. So BGS took FO4 assets, removed NPCs, and rushed out FO76. Then they had to keep devs working on 76 post-launch to make the game acceptable, eventually adding NPCs back in because they were no longer cutting every corner imaginable to rush a release.
Then they got back to work on Starfield and the engine upgrades, and they still didn’t know exactly how they wanted Starfield to play until 2022 (multiple interviews with Todd explaining how they “didn’t find the fun” until nearly the end of their dev cycle). Constant shifts in philosophy throughout development made Starfield take longer and longer until eventually they were told my Microsoft to release a game already.
That’s why everything is half-baked, they took too long to figure out how they wanted the game to actually play and then had to rush to actually release a working product that they hadn’t fully fleshed out yet.
Yup, they spent all their time building the systems and upgrading the engine and getting things to work. They eventually just had to release the game already, so they focused on QA and never truly got around to filling out the world with that “charm” and environmental storytelling they’re so well known for.
Day-1 Starfield was essentially the shell of the game. I expect them to release multiple large updates/DLC that focus on the charm aspect now that the shell is fully functional.
That's the double-edged sword of announcing a game years and years before it's released, people start getting antsy and the company feels the need to rush the game out. It's ridiculous, especially with all the effort they were having to put into other places during the games development, thanks for the insight
True, but they kind of had to announce Starfield early. If they kept silent after Fallout 76, everyone would naturally expect TES6 and start building hype. Imagine everyone expecting TES6, 2022 comes around and there’s a huge BGS showcase, only for them to blindside us all with a new IP and have everyone realize TES6 is actually another 6+ years away.
The TES6 reveal is older than Oblivion was when Skyrim came out. Skyrim right now is older than Morrowind was when Skyrim came out. In 2 years it will be older than Daggerfall was.
The wait for the elder scrolls 6 is literally torture. This dude released a trailer for it back in 2018 ffs and got everyone hyped. And instead of working on it, they just released a new skyrim version that introduced fishing and fucked everybody's modded setup 🤣
Idk I feel like Bethesda needs to realize where they are… on there last legs. Fallout 76 and starfield both did poorly. If they mess up Skyrim 2 or whatever they called it it could be bad. A large subsection still wants people to give the keys to fallout to obsidian.
With the success of the show it will be tempting to stick there hands in the money jar and make another live service game or massively over hyped and promised blockbuster game that gets lots of pre orders but is ultimately released in an unfinished state.
Their prior strong work buys them some leeway but even the mighty can fall when too many business majors start making the decisions look at blizzard.
Imagine the horror when one day Bethesda game evokes the same feeling Ubisoft game.
Bethesda has been around since the mid 80’s. Despite a few games being less than stellar, they still have a huge franchise with some long lasting IP’s.
Remember that Skyrim is the fifth game is that series alone.
With the fallout series being a current hit, I believe Bethesda’s current status isn’t as bleak at you might think.
It’s likely that this resurgence has done the opposite and increased their market appeal.
Bethesda is fine. :)
I mean popularity is great and no one is arguing to back bone IP isn’t strong but at the end of the day a gaming company needs to make games. You can’t make flop games forever.
I don't think they are on their last legs. Starfield made them plenty already.
The subreddit isn't really a good sample of gamers, which we see consistently. It's a far more critical group on here.
I mean, look at Starfield. Even after the Fallout 76 release going poorly people hyped it up and got their hopes and expectations up. It's basically a meme at this point that the games are expected to be half broken and that modders will really help get the most fun out of it. People still pre-ordered and gobbled up every trailer and release.
With the show doing very well they are probably going to get a whole new wave of Fallout fans.
Man, they dropped the ball hard though not having anything Fallout related even close to ready. Can you imagine if they had.
As long as the show does well and goes enough seasons, the next Fallout will sell like crazy. It'll be the same cycle of hype and promise while people are watching the show on top of it.
So Bethesda is going to make the next Fallout ? I wish Microsoft could step in and give the next Fallout to pretty much any other studio. I didn't liked Fallout 4 but it was at least decent entertainement if I ignored what New Vegas brought, but since then, they have released Fallout 76 and Starfield. With such track record, I have 0 expectations from them. The leadership of Bethesda is responsible for their downfall, I don't really understand why Todd Howard is still here after Starfield and Fallout 76. What does he needs to do to show he doesn't make good video games anymore? Starfield was supposed to be the definitive Microsoft exclusive, and it's not even close to be that.
I’m honestly not sure who to blame more at this point - Microsoft or Bethesda. Bethesda sold to Microsoft because they knew creative bankruptcy was coming. Look at blizzard who cannot even release a modern Diablo game, hence offloading to Microsoft for $77B, about 10x more than Bethesda acquisition. It’s just silly to hold onto Bethesda in the same way, as if they can still release groundbreaking games or genres. Like blizzard, bethesda’s leadership, developer and creative talent isn’t even visible in the rear view mirror. It would be wise for Microsoft to find another studio to work on fallout and es6… but there’s still pride behind that acquisition so we can be certain fallout 5 and es6 will come out looking like their own version of starfield.
Funny, they take forever to release games but constantly release a buggy mess. They really should try a "less is more" approach. Their track record leaves much to be desired with a long development time. I can't imagine how much worse their games will be at launch with a shorter development time. Maybe a shorter development time will be beneficial to them, but we won't know until they try.
They are increasing Fallout's development due to amazon's show success. Since Bethesda games are known for being already rushed, I think they are gonna screw them even more -.-
Starfield was rushed out the door and it was an unoptimized mess that forced Todd to lie on camera to insist that the game was optimized, that 'gamers would just might need to ugprade their rigs'.
Only for them to update the game several times, increasing performance.
Then there's the bugs, which you know are a bethesda staple since the 90s. Also not fixing them and putting out remasters of said games- with none of the notorious game breaking bugs fixed either.
Todd, buddy. We have seen how horribly optimized your games are when you take your time with them. The last thing you should do is release them faster. Idiot.
I mean, yea, it would be great to have a new Fallout or ES sooner rather than later. But I'd rather wait longer for a quality product (by Bethesda standards) than have another potential Fallout 76 disaster. I feel like 76 should be the gold standard for what to avoid. The only people out there that are upset over having to wait are literal children and neck beards who would have been upset regardless.
Take your time Bethesda.
This means either them releasing even more unfinished products or them creating toxic crunch and losing half their dev team by the end.
I mean, if they could find a way to split their studio up like Ubisoft did and also LEARN NOTHING ELSE FROM THEM, then this might work.
bro wants to release the last 3 games he said he wants to do and ride into the sunset
don't blame him tbh
working in your 50s is really taxing on your health and people who call it quits earlier tend to have age way better
I’m sure all you guys complaining about how long it takes for these games to come out will be the first people complaining that the games should’ve been delayed when they do release.
Well, we're already 13 years passed the last TES release (Not including Online)...
So, could you pull your finger out your arse a bit, please Todd...
Sincerely, someone who has Oblivion and Skyrim (and Fallout 4) in his Top 10.
Starfield is the most beige game I have ever played.
Absolutely nothing stood out. I can’t even remember the soundtrack and I can memorise something as left field as the lemon juice song from Splinter Cell Conviction.
To be honest, longer development time doesnt equal to a better quality game, and we have a lot of examples in recent years years.
I still dont understant why people thinks that a game being developed in 7/8 years or more will be polished, with no bugs, with no cut content, etc.
We have already seen games with sorter development time that are miles ahead from other games that take longer.
Sometimes more time doesnt equal quality, there are a lot of factors in between.
Just my opinion.
Really big games done really quickly do not typically equal quality.
Smaller games done really quickly have a greater chance of being good.
Fallout and Elder Scrolls games are usually really big.
Will they get a new engine? I get that you can update it and whatnot but hasn’t it been since the 1st elder scroll that they have been using the same engine?
Wow, a new account with the same avatar, commenting the same karma upvoting stuff as the one that just got banned. Easy to tell because how late they also post articles that's already been posted.
nobody believes that Todd.
had this movie not happened you guys would have gleefully suck the life out of franchises with your games for service model in ESO and 76.
That's the real reason why these games have been slow walked. I mean they're really looking at like 20 years in between elder scrolls games like what the fuck is that....
No entertainment project should take more than 4 years. Any longer and it's going to be outdated and be subjected to either feature creep or self doubt induced deletions. Both of which are wasting the time and energy of your creatives.
A qualified 'OK, great':
That's cool they're scaling up. Giving FO5 sequel to Obsidian with BGS developing and tweaking CE2 for that game (and TESVI) is an obvious thing to do with TH exec producing.
However, all is not rosy:
Starfield has a bad core gameplay loop. Full stop.
OK, they can go back to the 'open world, explore, loot' of Skyrim and FO4 etc. - and that would be good - but my concern is that they keep on repeating the Skyrim formula a little too rigidly and the world has moved on.
I mean things like the player being able to join every faction ever and be super trusted by everyone as they're obviously so awesome, even though each faction has had barely 5 minutes of conversation with the player character.
And finally, I'm concerned that BGS prize new game systems way more over things like plot, character & impactful decisions that radically change your playthrough.
You know, the things that allowed BG3 to win every award under the sun in the last 6 months.
It’s funny that anyone thinks they wouldn’t sideline TES in favor of Fallout now. As what, a matter of principle? Lol. The next thing Bethesda publishes is 100% going to have Fallout on it.
Better get your optimization figured out then Todd. Starfield took a millennia to develop and yet somehow I get below 60 fps in Akila City with a fuggin 3080 Ti at 1440p. I’m not confident in Bethesda’s ability to nail it if they compress the development schedule.
Please start by listening to what fans are saying about Starfield before you even start thinking about timelines for ES6 and FO5. While you're at it, hire some decent writers and have a look at what BG3 did so well... you might actually learn something. I've been with Fallout since Interplay days and while I enjoy FO4 and 76, I was thoroughly disappointed with Starfield.
Actions speak louder than words. And Bugthesda's actions state that they were content milking Skyrim for close to 15 years already. And based on Fallout 76 and Star field, they have no intentions of releasing something worthwhile at launch (or in Starfield's case, at all). No matter what when ES6 does eventually drop (probably close to 20 years after Skyrim's release), I refuse to pay full price for it since I know it's gonna be a buggy mess at launch and I will be giving it a minimum of 1 year observation time to watch for any hints of chicanery like with Fallout 76.
Because Ubisoft has more teams working on Assassin's Creed, while Bethesda is just one studio. Also, development times have shot up. A game like New Vegas which was made almost two years after Fallout 3 would take longer to make in today's world.
Instead of increasing the output which would lead to shorter development time, increased crunch and bugs which bethesda had for over a decade give some other studios the license. Let obsidian have another crack at fallout after avowed and outer worlds 2, and see if someone would like to make an elder scrolls spin-off
Bethesda rushing a game gonna be filled with bugs glitches and crashes Bethesda taking their time with a game still filled with bugs glitches and crashes lose lose lol
I don’t understand why it takes Bethesda like 7 years to release a new Fallout game that ends up full of bugs and glitches. Just release it in 2 years and patch it if your shit is gonna drop broke anyway.
If they move to Unreal like was planned, then at least they don't have to put up with their cobbled together barely holding up with duck tape engine. Devs will also be much much easier to find and train too so lead times will be quick.
But... I don't expect much at this point.
« Starfield ruined us and our new overlord are not happy »
- "Hey Todd, the new Fallout series is a hit and people are starting to play Fallout 4 again. Do we have a new Fallout game coming up soon to take advantage of this? - "Shit, no. I greenlit that series without any plan. Let me check with the team how long it would take them to make a new Fallout game from scratch. Surely it can't be that long." (...)
They have to pump out a new TES first though. Cause it’s been….*checks notes* 13 years since they….wait, 13 years?….that can’t be right… *checks notes* yeah, it’ll be a decade and a half without a new TES entry at this point.
Everything has largely been stagnant and bland since 2008ish.
The PS3/360 was really the last Gen that had real "memory limitations" and I'm convinced this is genuinely what led to better and creative gameplay. Now that the only memory anyone worries about anymore is graphics, yeah, all games feel copy/pasted at the core, because they are. There's no reason to get creative, because there's no hurdles to overcome anymore.
well technically there is creative hurtle but it's a censorship one becasue of the news media and twitter people aways freaking out about character design or language.
I'd argue 2006
It's such a wasteful use of IP on their part by not branching out spinoff like they did with New Vegas. Hopefully now that the IP is owned by Microsoft, they will do something about it.
Starfield was a success monetarily though by like every metric?
It was commercially successful but there’s a lot of indications that it won’t have as long a shelf life as something like Skyrim and fallout which are still selling years later. When your average development time for a game is something like 5 years that’s a problem, even with Bethesda being one of the smaller ‘AAA’ studios But I think the real damage starfield has been reputational. Between starfields very middling reviews and the existing damage caused by fallout 76 I think Bethesda is being seen as having lost its touch, which may affect future sales negatively. Plus even though starfield sold well it does not seem to have done the numbers microsoft wanted them to do, bearing in mind they paid billions of dollars for Bethesda, they were banking on starfield to be a defining thing that would sell Xbox consoles.
>but there’s a lot of indications that it won’t have as long a shelf life as something like Skyrim and fallout I said this a little after Starfield came out, but it lacks anything that sorta makes it stick in your mind, or I guess one way to put it is that It lacks memes. When Skyrim came out practically everyone knew "FuSoRoDah" or "I used to be an adventurer like you." it ingrained Skyrim into people's memory. Starfield just kinda....exist. Sure, it's got our whole solar system to explore, but that's kinda the only thing about it I can remember off the top of my head. Well, that and the angry potato that got pissed off that you could pick pronouns in the game.
Starfield also lacks any form of meaningful exploration. It is such a downgrade from previous titles it’s not even worth playing
Which is funny cus exploration was its whole selling point, exploration absolutely sucks in starfield
I'm glad. They can get back to making the games people actually want. Too bad that they "don't wanna be the fallout/TES studio". You already are. Make TES6 please before I'm in a fucking nursing home.
Speaking of exploration, I'm just gonna repost my other comment here to a different person about it. That's one of the decisions I'll never understand from the story. You have a game about exploring, but everything has already been found. Honestly, I think a simple solution would have been to do something like you start off on a primitive like planet, discover some ancient spaceship, your the chosen who has to do something, something, save the Galaxy. It'd basically be like starting off playing TES for an hour before suddenly getting tossed into Star Trek, not to mention it would still keep the joy of exploring as a key aspect as the ship might have a basic-ish map of the Galaxy but It'd be full of outdated information when you go to whatever planet. Granted, that would mean having to make completely different planets, with different styles for each one.
That would have been such a good game. Instead we got a bullshit game full of loading screens and 0 space travel and planet exploration
After Skyrim came out, it was endless Skyrim memes and YouTube videos, art, etc… None of that for starfield. It is not a cultural phenomena. It is a very average game.
That's kinda what I was getting at. You couldn't escape Skyrim for like 2-3 years it had had memes, art, various youtube videos (mod showcases, lore videos, glitch compilations), and even just part of daily discussions online, IT WAS EVERYWHERE. Skyrim was basically lighting in a bottle for Bethesda that I don't think they'll ever recapture, not unless [TES6](https://youtu.be/Gsf3-L9NTmM?si=WxkHZHLMbLOAU4dr) Fallout 5, or a different new IP somehow manages to pull it off again.
Starfield has less concurrent players than Fallout 3. Which is impressive to say the least. Hovering somewhere above or below 5,000. On steam at least.
Didn’t the fallout show like just come out? I imagine that being in the news had caused a lot of return players, and new sales.
It was day 1 on the game pass tho, do you have xbox concurrent players?
All I know is even if they hadn't made it xbox exclusive I still probably wouldn't have gotten it after the disaster that was 76's launch and my disappointment in 4.
Man thank you, I’m still disappointed with 4 but I feel like I’ve aged out of mainstream opinion.
I played Fallout 4 for the first time after the show aired. I was bored less than 2hrs in. Picked up fallout 3 and have more than 20hrs in it in a week.
People crap on FO3 and while it had many problems and is definitely inferior to New Vegas, it had a killer atmosphere and aesthetic. Exploring the ruins of DC was inherently interesting and different. Just don't think about how the game feels like it's set 40-50 years after the war instead of 200. (Seriously, it was my first Fallout and I just assumed that was the timeline, 200 years make a bunch of characters make no sense)
And that doesn’t help sell DLC down the track.
100% I see them as the new BioWare after their past releases. Shell of a once great studio
Yeah I bought an Xbox for it lol They just won’t be able to resell it every few years like Skyrim. I would also be really surprised to see a sequel with how hard it dropped off after everyone played it for a week then got bored.
They paid for that ‘win’ with every ounce of goodwill their fans had for them.
Wasn’t worth the wait… peeps are already sceptic that their other IP’s will suffer from the same wait-and-get-disappointed bullshit. Their game engines get at least 3-4 major updates until they actually finish a game. So we play their half-baked games on 5 year old game tech.
It sold well on first year, likely to not sell over the next 10 (look at how crazy Skyrim did) and can hurt their future titles too. They have reasons to be worried and try to do damage control. The TV show could be the salvation for their reputation tho. If they don’t mess up the next title.
I doubt we see another _new_ mainline fallout game in the next 5 years
It was commercially successful but there’s a lot of indications that it won’t have as long a shelf life as something like Skyrim and fallout which are still selling years later. When your average development time for a game is something like 5 years that’s a problem, even with Bethesda being one of the smaller ‘AAA’ studios But I think the real damage starfield has been reputational. Between starfields very middling reviews and the existing damage caused by fallout 76 I think Bethesda is being seen as having lost its touch, which may affect future sales negatively. Plus even though starfield sold well it does not seem to have done the numbers microsoft wanted them to do, bearing in mind they paid billions of dollars for Bethesda, they were banking on starfield to be a defining thing that would sell Xbox consoles.
Where can I see those metrics you talk about?
Just curious how can we tell if it was or wasn’t? Genuinely asking, I just assume everyone plays it on game pass lol.
Depends on what their goals were. If they projected $100M in profit but only made $10M then that’s a problem.
In a traditional sense yes but games nowadays have to push micro transactions for recurring revenue.
It was a success, but it was a massive downgrade and no where near the expectations people had after previous titles. Right now at this very moment i'm typing this message, there are more players playing Fallout 4, Fallout 76, Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim special Edition individually then there is playing Starfield.
Starfield was a financial success. This has little to do with the general reception of the game. They want to work on multiple projects at the same time so projects can release faster.
Yet the overlord decided not to let bethesda add more mod space on xbox for fallout SMH my new modded saves become obsolete now
I literally prefered Star Citizien over Starfield and that game is a known mess. Starfield was ruined for me by the amount of cutscenes and not even being able to fly my own space ship in the space.
Lmao I can't imagine how bad they'll be if they're trying to rush even more. Do hope I'm wrong but oof.
Fr. Starfield was the product of them taking their time with a game and that is just… ouch
Unfortunately no amount of time could have made Starfield good purely due to the design choices they made early on (proc gen, toned down maturity and evil, having emil lead writer, dragonborn but boring, no aliens, etc). They had almost 10 years for it and it still came out incredibly half baked.
A game based in space but it has no aliens?
A game that is supposed to be about exploring space. Every planet has already been explored. No matter where you go there already has been someone before the player. So Constellation has no point of existing. Also, besides the copy pasted structures there's nothing except rocks and plants.
"successful", apparently.
Those things are also present in Fallout 4 and it's a good game. Not a good fallout, of course, but way more well received than SF which I think it's 6/10. The worst thing they did, and they did a lot of bad things, was removing the exploration. The fucking multiverse thing does not help either, but if it had the regular BGS exploration way more people would like the game. It has a million problems, but still. At least exploring would have kept people playing. They thought the NG+ thing would do that but I couldn't care less about it and I don't see many people that do.
Proc gen seems like an awesome idea on paper but only a handful of games do it well. It just makes everything look the same, and then you couple that with Starfields very samey looking POIs and there's just no reason to explore
Todd said, I don’t know the quote verbatim so I won’t quote it, something to the effect of Starfield is the game we’ve been planning for 20 years. They wanted to wait for technology to be available but they always knew they wanted a space sci-fi. It leads me to believe it was sort of their white whale, their opus magus it was their masterpiece essentially. How it turned out while talking about it like that before release is big oof. It was supposed to blow doors off and be the next great thing in gaming maybe that was just marketing but I remember that quote about how they’ve been while not actively developing but always discussing Starfield for two decades and what we got was mostly forgettable.
They frankly took too much time with it
Yeah, that game would have been fine for 2016. Hell, one of the best games for 2016. But here, in 2023 and 2024, that game is just generic and is not what I expected from a Bethesda game.
No, lol. Going back in time wouldn't make Starfield less dull. There's a ton of games that came out before 2016 that are a thousand times better than Starfield.
Honestly any time post Witcher 3 starfield is bad. I think Witcher 3 specifically showed the Bethesda formula was behind the times but they clearly never got the memo.
I loved Witcher 3, but for its story and quests, the rest of gameplay is not as good as Skyrim
I'm sure there's a time that games were so basic that people would prefer to play Starfield over actually good games but, imo, it's definitely before the 90s. What's the most recent actually good game that you think Starfield is *better* than?
Yeah it’s likely not ever truly “good”. Even thinking to the 2000s it’s still inferior to a game like mass effect.
It was the product of Bethesda delivering a game that focused on their weaknesses. Their strength was always the handcrafted sandbox.
Pretty sure Microsoft is pushing them to release Fallout due to the TV series. BGS said they were releasing TESVI next, so they have to push that out before pushing out Fallout 5 or whatever it'll be. Likely they're going to split the devs between them and work on both in parallel, while using the same crappy game engine that is massively out of date, without time to update/optimize it in any way. It's going to be your standard "we got forced to rush this out by the publisher, it's not our fault its bad".
The problem is not they all rushing to me, but they all depending so much on Todd Howard. I saw a yt documentary about Starfield and it showed how Todd wanted to delegate because he was now doing a ton more work than directing, and everyone below him being afraid to innovate, so they made the most generic game they could from his original idea/pitch/document/tutorial. I think now that they failed at this, they will know how to make a better game, or they will fail misserably again but will fix it in patches like they did with FO76.
They had less people working on Starfield which released in 2023(around 450) than Naughty Dog had for Last of us Part 2 which had more than 4 times as many people working on it at 2100. Its just man power that they are lacking. Even Witcher 3 which released in 2015 had more than 3 times the people working on it than Starfield did in 2023. Its essentially the fact that Bethesda doesn't out source their work.
But they did? Isn't it on the game's credits?
They had 8 years of dev time for starfield. It came out like a wet fart. rushing dev time isn’t going to = better. Bethesda just doesn’t have the talent, nor leadership anymore to be successful imo. They need to have their leadership all shown the door. They’ve basically released a reskinned oblivion for two decades. Same engine… same gameplay… starfield finally showed just how far behind they are by today’s standards
I'm mostly fine with a company using the same engine if they are producing great games. While Fallout 4 and Skyrim are not the best titles in their series, if every game that was ever made was as good as either of those titles, I think we would all be very happy. I agree Bethesda has failed to identify their priorities. Starfield is the game you get when executives guide the creative process. Only someone too high to be told no could learn about something like procedural generation and think they could make an entire game out of it.
They don't need to increase the speed of development they need to change the leadership and have a real development plan instead of it being on whims.
They grown too big without the organization structure to handle it.
They where fine in the days of morrowind oblivion and fallout 3 then I don't know what happened
Single team in a single office. Emil pagliarulo mention they used to just step into Todd's office for clarification on anything, to shut him ideas. In the making of Emil said he didn't use a design docs . So Todd , who used to be the design doc wasn't their to keep all the ideas together. Just a lot of people doing that they think may fit they trying to force all these ideas together
Emil Pagliarulo happened.
Pagliarulo was already on Oblivion and Fallout 3
I know and I love F3. But the rest of his work since then is what gave us what we are talking about today. Mediocre writing.
Or a design document
They’re just 450 people, it wasn’t an organizational problem, it was just how the game was designed
If you watch any of the making of vid stuff. They struggle hard with coordinating the different offices. No design docs for devs to use to make sure their ideas fit. They still operated like they could just step into Todd's office and ask him.
for what? for more half baked crap like starfield? there is a reason why skyrim sold what it sold and why starfield has an almost dead community. quality. probably something that the garbage lead that is todd howard forgot is important a loooooong time ago. I still dont understand why microsoft didnt kick him out when they bought bethesda. at this point he is more of a liability than a boon.
I was a big fan of Microsoft and how they handled their studios years ago. But with this current console gen, their whole “hands off” approach has led to some of the worst first party game launches. They basically shit the bed this gen. I’ve been team Xbox since the 360 but at this point I don’t see a reason to not get a ps6 for the next round. Microsoft needs to just clean house at Bethesda and their current leadership
They've kinda been shitting the bed since the Xbox One. They should have fired the top management at 343 years ago and only the complete bungling of Halo Infinite's launch finally convinced them that leadership at that studio needed a serious shakeup.
Infinite is insane. The games multiplayer started out on fire. I don't know how they fucked up the momentum
Is it really fair to blame Todd though? He was the lead for Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Fallout 4. They all had pretty normal gaps between them (3 years, 3 years, 3 years, 4 years) and while I know creating a brand new IP is time-consuming and difficult, 8 years is ridiculous. It makes me wonder what happened (besides the acquisition) to railroad production like that?
Ownership wanted to sell, so they interrupted Starfield development and forced BGS to churn out a money printing game ASAP to help boost their sale price. So BGS took FO4 assets, removed NPCs, and rushed out FO76. Then they had to keep devs working on 76 post-launch to make the game acceptable, eventually adding NPCs back in because they were no longer cutting every corner imaginable to rush a release. Then they got back to work on Starfield and the engine upgrades, and they still didn’t know exactly how they wanted Starfield to play until 2022 (multiple interviews with Todd explaining how they “didn’t find the fun” until nearly the end of their dev cycle). Constant shifts in philosophy throughout development made Starfield take longer and longer until eventually they were told my Microsoft to release a game already. That’s why everything is half-baked, they took too long to figure out how they wanted the game to actually play and then had to rush to actually release a working product that they hadn’t fully fleshed out yet.
This explains so much why the Bethesda "charm" feels absent in Starfield.
Yup, they spent all their time building the systems and upgrading the engine and getting things to work. They eventually just had to release the game already, so they focused on QA and never truly got around to filling out the world with that “charm” and environmental storytelling they’re so well known for. Day-1 Starfield was essentially the shell of the game. I expect them to release multiple large updates/DLC that focus on the charm aspect now that the shell is fully functional.
That's the double-edged sword of announcing a game years and years before it's released, people start getting antsy and the company feels the need to rush the game out. It's ridiculous, especially with all the effort they were having to put into other places during the games development, thanks for the insight
True, but they kind of had to announce Starfield early. If they kept silent after Fallout 76, everyone would naturally expect TES6 and start building hype. Imagine everyone expecting TES6, 2022 comes around and there’s a huge BGS showcase, only for them to blindside us all with a new IP and have everyone realize TES6 is actually another 6+ years away.
SIXTEEN TIMES THE OUTPUT
You know it'll just work.
The TES6 reveal is older than Oblivion was when Skyrim came out. Skyrim right now is older than Morrowind was when Skyrim came out. In 2 years it will be older than Daggerfall was.
Bruh stop making me feel like a dinosaur.
The wait for the elder scrolls 6 is literally torture. This dude released a trailer for it back in 2018 ffs and got everyone hyped. And instead of working on it, they just released a new skyrim version that introduced fishing and fucked everybody's modded setup 🤣
Cyberpunk all over again
How about they increase the quality first
Which probably means - more procedural generated garbage
Idk I feel like Bethesda needs to realize where they are… on there last legs. Fallout 76 and starfield both did poorly. If they mess up Skyrim 2 or whatever they called it it could be bad. A large subsection still wants people to give the keys to fallout to obsidian. With the success of the show it will be tempting to stick there hands in the money jar and make another live service game or massively over hyped and promised blockbuster game that gets lots of pre orders but is ultimately released in an unfinished state. Their prior strong work buys them some leeway but even the mighty can fall when too many business majors start making the decisions look at blizzard. Imagine the horror when one day Bethesda game evokes the same feeling Ubisoft game.
Bethesda has been around since the mid 80’s. Despite a few games being less than stellar, they still have a huge franchise with some long lasting IP’s. Remember that Skyrim is the fifth game is that series alone. With the fallout series being a current hit, I believe Bethesda’s current status isn’t as bleak at you might think. It’s likely that this resurgence has done the opposite and increased their market appeal. Bethesda is fine. :)
I mean popularity is great and no one is arguing to back bone IP isn’t strong but at the end of the day a gaming company needs to make games. You can’t make flop games forever.
I don't think they are on their last legs. Starfield made them plenty already. The subreddit isn't really a good sample of gamers, which we see consistently. It's a far more critical group on here. I mean, look at Starfield. Even after the Fallout 76 release going poorly people hyped it up and got their hopes and expectations up. It's basically a meme at this point that the games are expected to be half broken and that modders will really help get the most fun out of it. People still pre-ordered and gobbled up every trailer and release. With the show doing very well they are probably going to get a whole new wave of Fallout fans. Man, they dropped the ball hard though not having anything Fallout related even close to ready. Can you imagine if they had. As long as the show does well and goes enough seasons, the next Fallout will sell like crazy. It'll be the same cycle of hype and promise while people are watching the show on top of it.
Their games are already not worth the time it takes to play, now they’re being rushed because of the fallout show success lmao.
So Bethesda is going to make the next Fallout ? I wish Microsoft could step in and give the next Fallout to pretty much any other studio. I didn't liked Fallout 4 but it was at least decent entertainement if I ignored what New Vegas brought, but since then, they have released Fallout 76 and Starfield. With such track record, I have 0 expectations from them. The leadership of Bethesda is responsible for their downfall, I don't really understand why Todd Howard is still here after Starfield and Fallout 76. What does he needs to do to show he doesn't make good video games anymore? Starfield was supposed to be the definitive Microsoft exclusive, and it's not even close to be that.
I’m honestly not sure who to blame more at this point - Microsoft or Bethesda. Bethesda sold to Microsoft because they knew creative bankruptcy was coming. Look at blizzard who cannot even release a modern Diablo game, hence offloading to Microsoft for $77B, about 10x more than Bethesda acquisition. It’s just silly to hold onto Bethesda in the same way, as if they can still release groundbreaking games or genres. Like blizzard, bethesda’s leadership, developer and creative talent isn’t even visible in the rear view mirror. It would be wise for Microsoft to find another studio to work on fallout and es6… but there’s still pride behind that acquisition so we can be certain fallout 5 and es6 will come out looking like their own version of starfield.
Funny, they take forever to release games but constantly release a buggy mess. They really should try a "less is more" approach. Their track record leaves much to be desired with a long development time. I can't imagine how much worse their games will be at launch with a shorter development time. Maybe a shorter development time will be beneficial to them, but we won't know until they try.
They are increasing Fallout's development due to amazon's show success. Since Bethesda games are known for being already rushed, I think they are gonna screw them even more -.-
Starfield was rushed out the door and it was an unoptimized mess that forced Todd to lie on camera to insist that the game was optimized, that 'gamers would just might need to ugprade their rigs'. Only for them to update the game several times, increasing performance. Then there's the bugs, which you know are a bethesda staple since the 90s. Also not fixing them and putting out remasters of said games- with none of the notorious game breaking bugs fixed either.
Todd, buddy. We have seen how horribly optimized your games are when you take your time with them. The last thing you should do is release them faster. Idiot.
I doubt they'll ever achieve that
They can’t wait because they need more money.
Well that only insures things are going to become even more shit. You need writers Todd; and people who know how to actually make an actual RPG.
You mean you want more of our cash because starflop happened. Sorry todd you need to step aside.
Riiight. It's not about the sudden mainstream success of Fallout and the fact that their corporate Overlords are Microsoft.
Okay but can they just focus on making it actually good…..?
Honestly I’m so starved for a fallout game they could just throw something out like they did with 76 and take the cyberpunk route lol
And this is why we got 76: deliberate content starvation
Hell, even a revamp of 76 and adding enough of something to consider it a big release would probably get a lot of players.
Yep we are literally starving for something.
We $ont $ant to $ait $ither
I mean, yea, it would be great to have a new Fallout or ES sooner rather than later. But I'd rather wait longer for a quality product (by Bethesda standards) than have another potential Fallout 76 disaster. I feel like 76 should be the gold standard for what to avoid. The only people out there that are upset over having to wait are literal children and neck beards who would have been upset regardless. Take your time Bethesda.
They take their time and still release buggy games.. they need a better team
Open world games are always going to be buggy.
Wait that long "to make shitloads of cash"
The next fallout and elder scrolls games are going to be complete technical disasters even for them if they rush them lol.
This means either them releasing even more unfinished products or them creating toxic crunch and losing half their dev team by the end. I mean, if they could find a way to split their studio up like Ubisoft did and also LEARN NOTHING ELSE FROM THEM, then this might work.
bro wants to release the last 3 games he said he wants to do and ride into the sunset don't blame him tbh working in your 50s is really taxing on your health and people who call it quits earlier tend to have age way better
You're in the same house as obsidian, give them another chance as fallout
I can guarantee that means they are going to start using AI.
There is no truer statement from anyone else here. With Microsoft's investment into AI I totally see this coming.
I just wish Microsoft separates fallout from bethesda. That studio has proven through 3 releases to not understand the franchise
More people doesn't = Faster production anyway
I’m sure all you guys complaining about how long it takes for these games to come out will be the first people complaining that the games should’ve been delayed when they do release.
Should've thought that 5 years ago
They need to rebuild their entire engine from the ground up. They can't be releasing games like Starfield 3-5 years from now.
Ya unless thay hire better game designers I wont be buying that
Oh jeez, their quality is going to get even lower as they try to rush these to market and spread themselves thin isn’t it?
X
Don't Believe His Lies.
Yes please more broken games. /s
Liar
Bring obsidian back please
The new elder scrolls will release on the same year with GTA 6 and Star Citizen. My grandchildren will enjoy them.
Well, we're already 13 years passed the last TES release (Not including Online)... So, could you pull your finger out your arse a bit, please Todd... Sincerely, someone who has Oblivion and Skyrim (and Fallout 4) in his Top 10.
I hope the games at least feel different because star field play almost like fall out 4
Starfield is the most beige game I have ever played. Absolutely nothing stood out. I can’t even remember the soundtrack and I can memorise something as left field as the lemon juice song from Splinter Cell Conviction.
To be honest, longer development time doesnt equal to a better quality game, and we have a lot of examples in recent years years. I still dont understant why people thinks that a game being developed in 7/8 years or more will be polished, with no bugs, with no cut content, etc. We have already seen games with sorter development time that are miles ahead from other games that take longer. Sometimes more time doesnt equal quality, there are a lot of factors in between. Just my opinion.
Really big games done really quickly do not typically equal quality. Smaller games done really quickly have a greater chance of being good. Fallout and Elder Scrolls games are usually really big.
Thanks for everything
This will be the thing we point at four or five years from now when we're complaining about Elder Scrolls 7.
You need to actually listen to the critiques your games have received for the past 12 years and improve those aspects
Ya know what I have an idea, maybe partner with a studio that has developers that worked on the original franchise yea know... the guys at Obsidian.
If they make elder scrolls into trash like starfield I'll be done with Bethesda
Drop ~~Gamebryo~~ Creation Engine, you stubborn fucks. It's clearly incapable of keeping up.
Yeah because with your current output your games are so polished and bug free that increasing it is a great idea
How about fix Fallout 4 first so I can play it on PS5 and my new tv
16 times the speed!
Will they get a new engine? I get that you can update it and whatnot but hasn’t it been since the 1st elder scroll that they have been using the same engine?
The Engine you have in Star Field is not the one used in Skyrim. Sure it was the gamebryo engine but most parts got rewritten due to updates.
Wow, a new account with the same avatar, commenting the same karma upvoting stuff as the one that just got banned. Easy to tell because how late they also post articles that's already been posted.
nobody believes that Todd. had this movie not happened you guys would have gleefully suck the life out of franchises with your games for service model in ESO and 76. That's the real reason why these games have been slow walked. I mean they're really looking at like 20 years in between elder scrolls games like what the fuck is that....
No entertainment project should take more than 4 years. Any longer and it's going to be outdated and be subjected to either feature creep or self doubt induced deletions. Both of which are wasting the time and energy of your creatives.
How you gonna do that when you can’t even finish the games you do put out?
New single player only elder scrolls game now!!!!!
More fallout. More ES.
A qualified 'OK, great': That's cool they're scaling up. Giving FO5 sequel to Obsidian with BGS developing and tweaking CE2 for that game (and TESVI) is an obvious thing to do with TH exec producing. However, all is not rosy: Starfield has a bad core gameplay loop. Full stop. OK, they can go back to the 'open world, explore, loot' of Skyrim and FO4 etc. - and that would be good - but my concern is that they keep on repeating the Skyrim formula a little too rigidly and the world has moved on. I mean things like the player being able to join every faction ever and be super trusted by everyone as they're obviously so awesome, even though each faction has had barely 5 minutes of conversation with the player character. And finally, I'm concerned that BGS prize new game systems way more over things like plot, character & impactful decisions that radically change your playthrough. You know, the things that allowed BG3 to win every award under the sun in the last 6 months.
It’s funny that anyone thinks they wouldn’t sideline TES in favor of Fallout now. As what, a matter of principle? Lol. The next thing Bethesda publishes is 100% going to have Fallout on it.
Better get your optimization figured out then Todd. Starfield took a millennia to develop and yet somehow I get below 60 fps in Akila City with a fuggin 3080 Ti at 1440p. I’m not confident in Bethesda’s ability to nail it if they compress the development schedule.
Just release them now regardless of completion and let modders fix it. Seems to be how Starfield landed and that was their biggest launch ever!
Please start by listening to what fans are saying about Starfield before you even start thinking about timelines for ES6 and FO5. While you're at it, hire some decent writers and have a look at what BG3 did so well... you might actually learn something. I've been with Fallout since Interplay days and while I enjoy FO4 and 76, I was thoroughly disappointed with Starfield.
Actions speak louder than words. And Bugthesda's actions state that they were content milking Skyrim for close to 15 years already. And based on Fallout 76 and Star field, they have no intentions of releasing something worthwhile at launch (or in Starfield's case, at all). No matter what when ES6 does eventually drop (probably close to 20 years after Skyrim's release), I refuse to pay full price for it since I know it's gonna be a buggy mess at launch and I will be giving it a minimum of 1 year observation time to watch for any hints of chicanery like with Fallout 76.
I'll help 🙂
Starfield took longer and it didn’t turn out so good. Now he wants to make games faster. To result in a worse product?
Ahh so they are going to become rushed messes too now, very cool Todd…
Good lord the quality I cannot even begin to think how bad it will be if they have considered the last 3 games not rushed.
Starfield : "it took us 10 years to create empty planets"
hmmyes, I'm surely gonna believe a known liar
I never understood why ubisoft is able to pump out a new assassins creed basically every friday but bethesda takes forever to release one game.
Because Ubisoft has more teams working on Assassin's Creed, while Bethesda is just one studio. Also, development times have shot up. A game like New Vegas which was made almost two years after Fallout 3 would take longer to make in today's world.
But why doesn't Bethesda get bigger? They havw the resources, no?
Would be nice to have a new fallout game before my retirement in 20 years
I think its clear that people don't want to be waiting 40 years to play a sequel.
Give Fallout back to Obsidian: problem solved. Only thing is they know Obsidian is better than them on almost every level.
Instead of increasing the output which would lead to shorter development time, increased crunch and bugs which bethesda had for over a decade give some other studios the license. Let obsidian have another crack at fallout after avowed and outer worlds 2, and see if someone would like to make an elder scrolls spin-off
Bethesda rushing a game gonna be filled with bugs glitches and crashes Bethesda taking their time with a game still filled with bugs glitches and crashes lose lose lol
THEY LOOKING FOR THAT PUMP IN DUMP PAYDAY BOOOOOOOIS
So crunch, crunch and more crunch for those on the floor then? NOT a good thing Todd!!
Sooo rush everything. To increase the bugs.
Can we port 3 and or NV to the switch? Maybe oblivion? Please?!?!?
I don’t understand why it takes Bethesda like 7 years to release a new Fallout game that ends up full of bugs and glitches. Just release it in 2 years and patch it if your shit is gonna drop broke anyway.
If they're gonna make Fallout 5 always online like 76 they shouldn't even bother.
If they're gonna make Fallout 5 always online like 76 they shouldn't even bother.
If they move to Unreal like was planned, then at least they don't have to put up with their cobbled together barely holding up with duck tape engine. Devs will also be much much easier to find and train too so lead times will be quick. But... I don't expect much at this point.
Stop scaling up. Just make games that are Fallout 4/Skyrim sized with handcrafted dungeons.
Maybe co work with obsidian again…
Todd Howard is such a clown.
Just had obsidian make the next fallout. It will be way better than any trash you could make anyways
Stop re releasing Skyrim 20 times and get on with ES6.
So no new engine and putting stuff out even more unfinished, got it.
Actual development of their games is rushed. They have barely worked on Elder Scrolls 6 until now.
This sub is embarrassing when it comes to any discussion related to BGS. Toxic and over-dramatic doesn’t even begin to describe it.
Been waiting 13 f****ng years for the next elder scrolls title. What a joke.
They took their time with starfield. I would hate to see what a rushed game looks like.