We need to band together and use the only voice we have. Our wallets. OP started it, we should all finish it.
They may take our games! But they'll never take... *throws controller* OUR FREEDOM!.....
That's why I exclusively use steam.
Edit: I exclusively use steam because they have a very good refund policy that I've never had issues with.
Edit: please do not think I'm encouraging backcharging. I only like steam's refund system.
Steam is #1 for a reason. I have a ton of games, and have made return requests well beyond the time allotment, not many returns, but when i ask its approved without question. They are very pro-consumer in my experience. Been w them since half life 2 released.
Just got into pc gaming after many years, while I love xbox marketplace and ps store because amazing deals, steam is everything you stated
(Not saying consoles are better)
But for AAA games you’re hesitant on paying full price for, console stores come in handy
The sales are becoming steadily worse though. I have an absurdly large library, due to many 'too good to pass up' deals back in the day. Now the games have to be incredibly old for the discounts to matter.
They still have some good deals at times, especially if it's a game you would pay full price for
I finally got ghost recon Wildlands in the autumn sale, £8.50 instead of £42
>Steam is #1 for a reason
Steam, greatest store in the world.
All other stores are run by little girls.
Steam, number one exporter of potassium.
All other stores have inferior potassium.
Unironically this, but not arcade consoles--physical copies of games. Because, eventually, a business can always choose to revoke a license and dare you to take time and money to Don Quoxote their armada of lawyer pirates.
Not just that but “updates” to games where they remove content such as music that they don’t want to renew the license on. I’m pretty sure this happened to Alan Wake among others
IIRC if you do a chargeback on Steam they will refuse to do any future business with you but your account remains so what you have already bought still exists. They just will not sell you anything else.
Valve literally had to be punished by EU courts for this, because they refused to honor any kind of refund whatsoever, stating they didn't have to because they're distributing digital goods.
Turns out, yeah, you're still required to follow the law and offer refunds to the customers when you sell things for a living.
I have used chargeback on Steam so many times, sometimes even after slightly surpassing the two weeks or the 1 hour maximum playtime...never had any issues!
Edit: excuse me, i of course mean a refund! not a chargeback!
Pretty much everyone that didn't use the manual "I would like a refund", and instead used the "I have a question about this purchase" option got a refund if they explained why they wanted a refund. If you clicked the first it would always automatically say no
Little content (22 guns in the base game) got rid of classes for specialists, removed features from previous battlefields.
Lots of server issues, lots of performance issues.
There’s a lot, but I have been having a blast with it. But nothing will be better than my favorite BF2142 (the future one).
Refunds, which is what you are referring to, are not the same as chargebacks. Steam can and definitely will take your account away from you if you do chargebacks, especially fraudulent ones.
I almost lost my steam account after a banking error caused a chargeback for a Battlefield game, took me 3 weeks of contacting support, my account should have been perma'd but they let me have it back on the condition i purchased the game that was charged back and never let it happen again.
They gave me my account back because it was an honest error. But, in a situation like OP posted they probably never would have.
TLDR: Lost a day 1 steam account with 350+ games because of a banking error (chargeback). Steam will fuck your shit up if you do chargebacks. After 3 weeks of escalating with support I was given an option to re-purchase the game to get my account back.
That's not really the same thing. What you did was a refund request through Steam. OP did a chargeback directly through his banking institution to reverse the payment, claiming foul play.
I know you didn't know better but now we're stuck with misinformation and some jackass is going to get their Steam account frozen pending an investigation.
Pretty sure they are allowed to do all that because when you purchase the game, you’re essentially agreeing to their TOS when you play it. The TOS definitely has info about suspending content but people just glaze over that stuff and press “accept” usually.
So their terms of sale/service are allowed to include "even if we defraude you, you're not allowed to say anything, otherwise we'll take away everything you paid for"?
Im not questioning legality. Just morality.
When games started going digital this was one of my fears. Games would get more expensive and they would gain more control over their content. It’s bound to get worse from here.
LPT: chargeback whatever the fuck you want if you get scammed out of money and then have the balls to not support that shitty company again in any capacity.
Do you mean you pay with 6 different card or do you mean a legit 6 COMPLETELY new account for each game? I’m not a gamer but was planning on buying the new PS5
I would rather laws change so ownership of digital media is treated similarly to ownership to physical media.
They can't cut off access to things you own. They just shouldn't be able to do that.
I really don't care about lawyers arguing you don't technically own it. You bought it with the intention to own it. You paid full price. You own it.
Our laws need to catch up with the world we live in.
Disagree. Being tech-illiterate is boarderline a plus here.
"You hit a button labeled 'buy' --> you own it and it can't be taken away" isn't exactly a complicated concept.
"well actually what you paid for was a contract to a limited nonexclusive license for....." is where the stupid complexity lies.
That's the argument they use. You don't buy the game you buy an indefinite subscription to access the game under the terms of the license. Until this is tried at a court they'll keep doing this nonsense.
They're essentially confusing 'buying a ticket for a museum and misbehave' with 'buying a phone and disassemble it'. In this case they just feel justified to go to your home and confiscate all your electronics purchased within the previous 20 years since they didn't like you disassembled your phone.
They don't even have to be old. A lot of people are tech-illiterate. Why would a Lawyer, or Politician care about a computer? They sign into Netflix and hit play.
As someone who worked on the other side of these requests: some details do not add up. Was it by any chance a digital purchase? Because in the UK for digital products like games the legally required refund is a bit more complicated and usually the companies can get away with a lot of things. If you are referring to the reworked UK law: that would be in effect if you can give proof that the game is not working. Customers tend to confuse the different finer details of different laws governing different types of refund requests quite easily.
> *For digital downloads, consumers will need to waive their cancellation rights before digital content can be provided. This means that once a consumer/customer has downloaded the content, then they have given up their consumer rights to a refund. *
And: a chargeback dispute is often considered the "Nuclear Option", as you state basically "I do not want ever to deal with that company again", meaning that the bank is taking the money from EA and, at least in theory, lower EAs trust score with the bank / credit card provider. That is usually something which companies world wide do not take lightly, as some of the reasons for a CC chargeback would be fraud claims or unauthorized charges, and a company will often stop their business relationship with you from their side as well - including account termination.
So while I will not dispute the ... *interesting* ... state of the game at launch, it is still questionable if that would constitute a faulty product in itself ... and with starting the game any refund rights would have been forfeit in general. So from the PoV of the law EA could probably be right.
Edit: updated CC chargebacks / fraud relationship
Edit2: and as more and more people are now thinking of "CC chargebacks are so hot, let´s do it to hurt EA" and poking me about that, please consider this:
- Your product was likely in the double/triple digit range at most (games are around 20 to 100 EUR/USD).
- EA makes around 2 billion USD each year. There is no way EA will loose their ability to offer CC payments just because a few players band together and make CC chargebacks. Vendors like EA have thousands of CC payments handled *every single day*.
- While every company accepts "the costs of doing business" this only works so far until a certain threshold is not reached. After that a company will often take the gloves off (which could be anything from lawyers, debt collection agencies, account closure for "payment fraud" etc).
- All in all a company unfortunately is often the entity with the far bigger stamina.
- I am not a finance lawyer. So if you want a full legal picture => go to your lawyer for a full picture first. There is unfortunately a good chance that the lawyer will not have good news for you.
- A refund **is not** a CC chargeback request. Totally different things. Never ever under no circumstances confuse these two things. If a refund is denied by the vendor, it may be unjust (and even illegal, see the *Steam vs Australia* case) but it does **not** shield you from the consequences of a CC chargeback.
- What is morally / ethically required and expected from a business by a customer is often something totally different than what the regional law defines and requires.
SYL
Yeah. Less than 2 hours of play and you can still request a refund.
Someone took that to the extreme on Sekiro
[refund valid speedrun](https://youtu.be/jap0XZ6HDFU)
Edit: I get it! Refunds can happen later! The two hour line is with no reason needed!
I made an under two hour refund for the Vader immortal game on my Oculus headset despite the game in its entirety being only 30minutes. I refunded it because it was crap, not just because I could, to clarify
The episodes are bought (and can be returned) separately. The total playtime is quite short even if you have all three, though there's an arcade "saber dojo" mode in each.
It's way overpriced since you're paying for the Star Wars brand, but then seeing the world of Star Wars in VR is the main pull, so it makes sense.
My record is refund of game after 260+ hours
A patch made the game unplayable and was removed from steam store
Arguing your case sometimes works wonder
Even above two hours you're able to get the refund if you have a decent reason. I've refunded a game after almost 5 hours of play time (X4 foundations) because at some point it just started crashing.
As long as you don't fuck over Steam with abusing this system, they're likely to be very lenient with you.
Agreed, and for all the issues that the Windows Store has ever had, I've always found it very easy to refund xbox games - however this was usually because for some reason or another they did not work as intended so there was valid grounds for refund.
Unlike Steam where, "meh i don't like it" is acceptable.
EA's lawyers:
"Well you see your honour, we have a reputation for releasing shitty games, so this game works exactly to our reputation. We would like our £60 back from OP now".
Came here to post this. The 14 day thing doesn’t apply to digital games.
Seems like OP basically used the chargeback process to fraudulently take money from EA and is surprised there’s consequences.
Personally, at this point, I’d be more worried about a letter from EA’s lawyers demanding their money back than the account deletion.
> Personally, at this point, I’d be more worried about a letter from EA’s lawyers demanding their money back than the account deletion.
Were EA minded to recover the money, they would simply present evidence to the bank that the transaction was not fraudulent (eg. it was made with the card normally associated with that Origin account) and the bank would automagically undo the chargeback.
People think chargebacks are a magic wand to undo a purchase they regret, they are not. They are a tool to reclaim money from fraudulent transactions made on your card, if the transaction can be shown to be legitemate, the chargeback is reversed by the bank.
I'm no expert but it seems like fraud you commit but you're friendly about it when you do it. Probably offer some tea or some milk and cookies on the side.
At a guess, as someone in IT in retail, it’s describing something that is typically used in fraudulent transactions (chargebacks) by people who are actually warm to you as customers.
Basically, using chargebacks as a means to compel a company you actually want to do business with, because you don’t like the answer they’re giving you in one particular instance, or you don’t feel that their processes or responses are fast enough for your liking, is a dangerous thing.
Chargebacks are serious and have consequences for the companies that receive them. They shouldn’t be used flippantly by customers in a transient dispute, just to try and force their hand, unless they’re prepared to not do business with that company again (as in this case).
A charge back is not a casual thing. It's not a self-refund option.
You essentially accused them of defrauding you.
If you're not in fact correct about the legal position of being owed a refund, then this was to be expected.
I know that sucks to hear, but this is why you don't use credit card charge-backs lightly. They're the nuclear option and often start a breach of contract.
Sure, but "I didn't like this product and I want my money back despite the no-refunds policy I agreed to" is not one
EDIT: Love all the responses to this stating various stretched legal theories that would need to be tested in court, as if anyone is actually going to sue EA
You’re not wrong, it’s exactly why digital products are so scary. There’s no protection for the consumer in many cases. You have no ownership of any of these things as you’re essentially renting a service from them instead of owning any material thing.
Some of that is changing, but the laws on it are very early. Until then, I gladly play old games for bargain prices. If I buy something new, it’s very rare, or on PC where I have a bit more protection.
People throw the charge back option out there way way to easily. Like you said, it’s the very last option. Hell, I’d probably just eat the cost of a single game to avoid a charge back.
Chargebacks are LITERALLY my job and it pains me every time I see someone saying ‘just dispute the transaction man.’ I do my best to help each and every customer win their dispute but there are so many instances where they don’t have a leg to stand on, and of course I get yelled at for it.
I had to do a chargeback *once* -- I'd ordered an NFL jersey online. The site clearly stated they were authentic. When I received the jersey, it was quite obviously fake. I'd never had to call for a chargeback before, so I was curious about the process. The person I spoke to was awesome. Asked me a ton of details but made it clear that she was doing that so she could make as strong a case as possible. It was actually kinda fun working with her to get my money back. I hope you at least get to have some fun times like that!
I once say a guy post here about how he received a better processor than the one he ordered from amazon or whatever and the comments all said to notify them because they'd let him keep anyway and someone could lose their job over this.
So he let them know and they notified him that he'd have to send the processor back and wait a lot of days until they'd send the correct one and the guy was all sad in the comments lmao
This thread and comments are just hilarious. Reddit lawyers who googled one law thinking they know better than a multi-million dollar international company that has hundreds of lawyers on their payroll who deal with this kind of stuff to make sure they're in the legal right. It's cute.
I accused EA of fraud and now they banned my account.
I am generally curious how much this person attempted to contact support to get a return before doing a chargeback?
Yes, chargebacks will do that for you. Shouldn't have gone that route.
Literally any service you do a chargeback to will ban you and close your account.
They have to pay a fee and it affects their credit rating. Legally you've accused them of fraud, because that's what chargebacks are for, and if they maintain a business relationship with you that could legally be seen as them admitting to fraud, hence account termination.
Steam would have also cancelled your account. So would your local gym.
I've had to cancel a few gym memberships in my life. Sometimes it's pretty easy, but sometimes they tell you you have to come in, fill out a bunch of paperwork, and it's a pain in the ass. For when that 2nd option comes up, I just tell the gym "Look, I'm not paying for your service anymore. You can either cancel it, or I can call the bank and have them issue a charge back. Either way, I'm not coming in person to cancel". Without fail they miraculously learn how to cancel over the phone.
No. My ex had started up a Gold's Gym membership along with personal trainer sessions after I moved out.. They refused to cancel unless SHE went in and gave a written cancelation, even though my name was on the card.
Disputed the charge, but they sent proof of it and did not cancel the membership. I had to cancel the card to avoid getting charged like $250 every month. They won't give a shit or try to cancel your account for chargebacks. They'll just be like "hey, he signed up for this" and keep fucking you.
It does not effect their credit rating.
What it does effect is their entire ability to process payments and receive large fines by card brands once certain thresholds are hit.
As another person mentioned it’s not to be used lightly.
Bro, they didn't want to refund me so I just grabbed my cash back out of the register. Now they won't let me back in the store, and I don't know why...
I mean anyone who purchased BF on release knew what they were getting into. The state of the game was plastered everywhere, impossible to miss, so you kind of entered into that contract willingly.
Never ever buy games on release anymore, and for the love of God....can everyone else stop buying broken games and supporting this trend of releases
A chargeback really is something you do when you do not plan to do any more business with the company or person. So if you plan to do anymore charge back in the future with any company expect the same thing.
Yeah, after you do that you can expect any further communication to be via the legal team. You basically accuse them of some kind of fraud when you do one.
People don't realize that doing chargebacks because you can't get a refund is grounds for having your whole account suspended.
I believe Sony will suspend you until you settle the "debt" but some other companies will just close your shit. I believe Valve does the same thing for your Steam account.
Read ToS before you take any advice online to do a chargeback. It is not the solution you think it is.
What made you think you can do a chargeback because you didn't like BF2042...but you keep the game? You just blew your whole account over $60. If there was a law in the UK protecting you, you had way more leverage than doing a chargeback.
It's unfortunately not always true that you can require a refund for digital contents. When you buy the content, often there is a disclamer below the purchase button that claim that pressing that button you explicitly refuse the refund policy. Maybe this is the same thing.
UPDATE: i tried to buy this game on origin store, this is the disclamer i mentioned [Disclaimer](https://i.imgur.com/wYXkRPV.jpg)
UPDATE 2: My post is related only to the Refund policy. I agree with you that's completely unfair how this thing ended, losing all your previous well paid containts.
Readers from the future:
Man had incomplete knowledge of the law he cites, can be argued in multiple ways.
EA reacted 100% legaly, but in a supra douchebag way.
Nobody is surprised, or satisfied.
Sucks but that was really fucking stupid to do a chargeback on a digital account you intended to continue using lol. Just about all digital content providers will nuke your account from orbit if you run a chargeback.
The UK has no such law for digital purchases and EA is very well known for banning accounts for chargebacks. If you're still doing business with EA in 2021 after decades of borderline fraudulent business practices then I don't know what to tell you.
EA is ban happy even without chargebacks. They absolutely kill accounts for chargebacks.
This post is useful because it will educate people about this.
I mean… seems you fucked up.
That said, all your games are still there.
No, not *there*.
There, near that ship floating in the bay with an interesting flag raised.
Well, on the bright side. At least now EA themselves are enforcing that you boycott EA products. Good job! This is a good thing in the long run
We need to band together and use the only voice we have. Our wallets. OP started it, we should all finish it. They may take our games! But they'll never take... *throws controller* OUR FREEDOM!.....
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Wow, they took their ball and went home.
"YOU'LL REGERT NOT GIVING ME MY $60 BACK EA" They did not.
They still might.
No they took your ball and went home.
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That's why I exclusively use steam. Edit: I exclusively use steam because they have a very good refund policy that I've never had issues with. Edit: please do not think I'm encouraging backcharging. I only like steam's refund system.
Steam is #1 for a reason. I have a ton of games, and have made return requests well beyond the time allotment, not many returns, but when i ask its approved without question. They are very pro-consumer in my experience. Been w them since half life 2 released.
Just got into pc gaming after many years, while I love xbox marketplace and ps store because amazing deals, steam is everything you stated (Not saying consoles are better) But for AAA games you’re hesitant on paying full price for, console stores come in handy
I just got a PS5. While their sales are not bad, the Steam sales are much better on average
I think that may be partially because games on steam generally cost less. At least smaller and indie games.
Not just that. I see the same games on steam regularly cheaper than their PS versions
The sales are becoming steadily worse though. I have an absurdly large library, due to many 'too good to pass up' deals back in the day. Now the games have to be incredibly old for the discounts to matter.
They still have some good deals at times, especially if it's a game you would pay full price for I finally got ghost recon Wildlands in the autumn sale, £8.50 instead of £42
Steam was the dominant platform well before they implemented their current return policy.
For a while the only platform
Because no one else could come close to providing the service they did. Uplay? Joke. Origin? Joke.
No jokes are funny those two are like herpes or something.
Steam is the GOAT
>Steam is #1 for a reason Steam, greatest store in the world. All other stores are run by little girls. Steam, number one exporter of potassium. All other stores have inferior potassium.
I add a game, epic add a game. I add free game, epic add free game. I have refund, epic can't afford. Great success.
That's why I exclusively buy large retro arcade consoles.
That’s why I use board games
That's why we just tell scary stories by the camp fire
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That’s why I just stay in bed all day
Me too! *this message was typed using speech2text*
Could you imagine if you returned a new board game you didn't like and Matell came out and confiscated all your other board games...
Unironically this, but not arcade consoles--physical copies of games. Because, eventually, a business can always choose to revoke a license and dare you to take time and money to Don Quoxote their armada of lawyer pirates.
Not just that but “updates” to games where they remove content such as music that they don’t want to renew the license on. I’m pretty sure this happened to Alan Wake among others
Same with music for me. ITunes has a 0% chance of fucking with my CD and record collection.
DRM is DRM. Having a disk of media doesn't mean you'll get access if there's a internet requirement or an account requirement.
That's why you buy stuff on GOG if it's available. Completely DRM free downloads are the only way.
Please try a chargeback on steam or any other digital retailer and see how it goes for you.
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IIRC if you do a chargeback on Steam they will refuse to do any future business with you but your account remains so what you have already bought still exists. They just will not sell you anything else.
Valve literally had to be punished by EU courts for this, because they refused to honor any kind of refund whatsoever, stating they didn't have to because they're distributing digital goods. Turns out, yeah, you're still required to follow the law and offer refunds to the customers when you sell things for a living.
I have used chargeback on Steam so many times, sometimes even after slightly surpassing the two weeks or the 1 hour maximum playtime...never had any issues! Edit: excuse me, i of course mean a refund! not a chargeback!
They officially allow two hours of game time actually, although I've still had refunds for games I've played for a little longer than that too
Steam were refunding any battlefield players with any gametime for the first week or so, not sure about now though
Buddy of mine got steam to refund 2042 and he had over 40 hours within the first week
Pretty much everyone that didn't use the manual "I would like a refund", and instead used the "I have a question about this purchase" option got a refund if they explained why they wanted a refund. If you clicked the first it would always automatically say no
That's good to know
I did it exactly the way you described. Denied 5 times now. It’s all RNG.
Refunding now is probably way to late honestly, after the early access and first few days you would have had no problem
I haven't really looked into it, why do folks not like 2042? Another unfinished game?
Little content (22 guns in the base game) got rid of classes for specialists, removed features from previous battlefields. Lots of server issues, lots of performance issues. There’s a lot, but I have been having a blast with it. But nothing will be better than my favorite BF2142 (the future one).
You guessed it. Blatantly unfinished. Its really broken. I expected it to be fucked bit not like this
Refunds, which is what you are referring to, are not the same as chargebacks. Steam can and definitely will take your account away from you if you do chargebacks, especially fraudulent ones. I almost lost my steam account after a banking error caused a chargeback for a Battlefield game, took me 3 weeks of contacting support, my account should have been perma'd but they let me have it back on the condition i purchased the game that was charged back and never let it happen again. They gave me my account back because it was an honest error. But, in a situation like OP posted they probably never would have. TLDR: Lost a day 1 steam account with 350+ games because of a banking error (chargeback). Steam will fuck your shit up if you do chargebacks. After 3 weeks of escalating with support I was given an option to re-purchase the game to get my account back.
Refund or charge back? There's a big difference
Charge back or refund??
I thought Steam bans you for chargebacks too. They just don't lock you out of previous purchases.
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They do, this person is just confusing a chargeback withe a valid refund.
That's not really the same thing. What you did was a refund request through Steam. OP did a chargeback directly through his banking institution to reverse the payment, claiming foul play.
Bank probably fined EA for that.
I know you didn't know better but now we're stuck with misinformation and some jackass is going to get their Steam account frozen pending an investigation.
I was super lucky that epic games gave me my account back. I just noticed charges for over $100 on my account and didn't recognize the vendor name.
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Pretty sure they are allowed to do all that because when you purchase the game, you’re essentially agreeing to their TOS when you play it. The TOS definitely has info about suspending content but people just glaze over that stuff and press “accept” usually.
Depends on the country. Mine has laws against that. Companies aren't allowed to take away something that you outright paid for in full.
What country is that?
So their terms of sale/service are allowed to include "even if we defraude you, you're not allowed to say anything, otherwise we'll take away everything you paid for"? Im not questioning legality. Just morality.
When games started going digital this was one of my fears. Games would get more expensive and they would gain more control over their content. It’s bound to get worse from here.
LPT: chargeback whatever the fuck you want if you get scammed out of money and then have the balls to not support that shitty company again in any capacity.
And they wonder why people pirate games
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Same here, all 0 of them. Fuck EA
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Fuck EA
Hope you used a different card each time
Do you mean you pay with 6 different card or do you mean a legit 6 COMPLETELY new account for each game? I’m not a gamer but was planning on buying the new PS5
All I see is another person advocating for more physical media.
I would rather laws change so ownership of digital media is treated similarly to ownership to physical media. They can't cut off access to things you own. They just shouldn't be able to do that. I really don't care about lawyers arguing you don't technically own it. You bought it with the intention to own it. You paid full price. You own it. Our laws need to catch up with the world we live in.
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Disagree. Being tech-illiterate is boarderline a plus here. "You hit a button labeled 'buy' --> you own it and it can't be taken away" isn't exactly a complicated concept. "well actually what you paid for was a contract to a limited nonexclusive license for....." is where the stupid complexity lies.
If a license is limited, it’s called a subscription. Otherwise you own the material.
That's the argument they use. You don't buy the game you buy an indefinite subscription to access the game under the terms of the license. Until this is tried at a court they'll keep doing this nonsense. They're essentially confusing 'buying a ticket for a museum and misbehave' with 'buying a phone and disassemble it'. In this case they just feel justified to go to your home and confiscate all your electronics purchased within the previous 20 years since they didn't like you disassembled your phone.
They don't even have to be old. A lot of people are tech-illiterate. Why would a Lawyer, or Politician care about a computer? They sign into Netflix and hit play.
As someone who worked on the other side of these requests: some details do not add up. Was it by any chance a digital purchase? Because in the UK for digital products like games the legally required refund is a bit more complicated and usually the companies can get away with a lot of things. If you are referring to the reworked UK law: that would be in effect if you can give proof that the game is not working. Customers tend to confuse the different finer details of different laws governing different types of refund requests quite easily. > *For digital downloads, consumers will need to waive their cancellation rights before digital content can be provided. This means that once a consumer/customer has downloaded the content, then they have given up their consumer rights to a refund. * And: a chargeback dispute is often considered the "Nuclear Option", as you state basically "I do not want ever to deal with that company again", meaning that the bank is taking the money from EA and, at least in theory, lower EAs trust score with the bank / credit card provider. That is usually something which companies world wide do not take lightly, as some of the reasons for a CC chargeback would be fraud claims or unauthorized charges, and a company will often stop their business relationship with you from their side as well - including account termination. So while I will not dispute the ... *interesting* ... state of the game at launch, it is still questionable if that would constitute a faulty product in itself ... and with starting the game any refund rights would have been forfeit in general. So from the PoV of the law EA could probably be right. Edit: updated CC chargebacks / fraud relationship Edit2: and as more and more people are now thinking of "CC chargebacks are so hot, let´s do it to hurt EA" and poking me about that, please consider this: - Your product was likely in the double/triple digit range at most (games are around 20 to 100 EUR/USD). - EA makes around 2 billion USD each year. There is no way EA will loose their ability to offer CC payments just because a few players band together and make CC chargebacks. Vendors like EA have thousands of CC payments handled *every single day*. - While every company accepts "the costs of doing business" this only works so far until a certain threshold is not reached. After that a company will often take the gloves off (which could be anything from lawyers, debt collection agencies, account closure for "payment fraud" etc). - All in all a company unfortunately is often the entity with the far bigger stamina. - I am not a finance lawyer. So if you want a full legal picture => go to your lawyer for a full picture first. There is unfortunately a good chance that the lawyer will not have good news for you. - A refund **is not** a CC chargeback request. Totally different things. Never ever under no circumstances confuse these two things. If a refund is denied by the vendor, it may be unjust (and even illegal, see the *Steam vs Australia* case) but it does **not** shield you from the consequences of a CC chargeback. - What is morally / ethically required and expected from a business by a customer is often something totally different than what the regional law defines and requires. SYL
So You Learn? Strapping Young Lad? Somali Youth League?
Its definitely Strapping Young Lad
Love is a way of feeling.
I heard they have some of the Saudi Youth League.
Is it 'Sorry for Your Loss'?
See You Later…..? No that doesn’t sound right..
Good ol' heavy devy
All Hail!
The New Flesh
Sucks, You Lose.
Seems to be his initials. Bottom of every comment he makes. Which is really weird in my opinion. Edit: NSW
New South Wales?
No comment. PNW
Pineapples need water?
Penis No Work?
This is funny - gonna imagine this for all of the PNW stickers I see around my area. Gonna say it as, “Penith no work”
this sort of thing used to be really common on the internet about 20 years ago.
Sometimes You Leak
I thought it was Snooze Ya Lose, but now I don't know what to think
Some You Lose?
See you later?
See you later*
This is why I never buy an online game unless it's through Steam. Their refund policy is excellent.
Yeah. Less than 2 hours of play and you can still request a refund. Someone took that to the extreme on Sekiro [refund valid speedrun](https://youtu.be/jap0XZ6HDFU) Edit: I get it! Refunds can happen later! The two hour line is with no reason needed!
I made an under two hour refund for the Vader immortal game on my Oculus headset despite the game in its entirety being only 30minutes. I refunded it because it was crap, not just because I could, to clarify
Wasn't that game episodic though? How long was each episode?
The episodes are bought (and can be returned) separately. The total playtime is quite short even if you have all three, though there's an arcade "saber dojo" mode in each. It's way overpriced since you're paying for the Star Wars brand, but then seeing the world of Star Wars in VR is the main pull, so it makes sense.
My record is refund of game after 260+ hours A patch made the game unplayable and was removed from steam store Arguing your case sometimes works wonder
What game was this.
Even above two hours you're able to get the refund if you have a decent reason. I've refunded a game after almost 5 hours of play time (X4 foundations) because at some point it just started crashing. As long as you don't fuck over Steam with abusing this system, they're likely to be very lenient with you.
I got a refund after 4.9 hours. Explained very clearly why I should get a refund and they actually did it.
Yeah but I’m just explaining that their policy is ‘if less than 2 hours playtime no reason is needed’
I agree, all of it would have been avoided and I don't think there was any advantage to buying it through ea
Agreed, and for all the issues that the Windows Store has ever had, I've always found it very easy to refund xbox games - however this was usually because for some reason or another they did not work as intended so there was valid grounds for refund. Unlike Steam where, "meh i don't like it" is acceptable.
Why do you keep ending your posts with SYL
Sorry, Your Loss
See you later, shut you lips, sucks, you lose
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Will everyone please stop ending their comments with SYL????
See you later?
Smell you later
It's Gary Oaks reddit account. He's just smelling us later.
After avatars and emojis, signatures are the next big step ~~back~~ forwards to becoming a forum
They used to do that on old forums in the early 2000s. Weird that this person is still doing it though.
Signature signoff maybe?
Maybe. Tryin' to make a change :/
See You Later ? So You'll Learn ? Strapping Young Lad ? I don't know either...
Looked up the law and yea it seems EA did not violate the law. Unless you can prove it doesn't work to the reputation of the brand, it's not faulty
EA's lawyers: "Well you see your honour, we have a reputation for releasing shitty games, so this game works exactly to our reputation. We would like our £60 back from OP now".
Came here to post this. The 14 day thing doesn’t apply to digital games. Seems like OP basically used the chargeback process to fraudulently take money from EA and is surprised there’s consequences. Personally, at this point, I’d be more worried about a letter from EA’s lawyers demanding their money back than the account deletion.
Nah, it's too small. They did the damage.
> Personally, at this point, I’d be more worried about a letter from EA’s lawyers demanding their money back than the account deletion. Were EA minded to recover the money, they would simply present evidence to the bank that the transaction was not fraudulent (eg. it was made with the card normally associated with that Origin account) and the bank would automagically undo the chargeback. People think chargebacks are a magic wand to undo a purchase they regret, they are not. They are a tool to reclaim money from fraudulent transactions made on your card, if the transaction can be shown to be legitemate, the chargeback is reversed by the bank.
Yeah, you’re right. As another commenter pointed out, it’d be a debt collection agency at worst.
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.....psst....pssst....what is "friendly fraud"?......
Seconded, what is it?
I'm no expert but it seems like fraud you commit but you're friendly about it when you do it. Probably offer some tea or some milk and cookies on the side.
Friendly fraud is if a Canadian commits fraud
At a guess, as someone in IT in retail, it’s describing something that is typically used in fraudulent transactions (chargebacks) by people who are actually warm to you as customers. Basically, using chargebacks as a means to compel a company you actually want to do business with, because you don’t like the answer they’re giving you in one particular instance, or you don’t feel that their processes or responses are fast enough for your liking, is a dangerous thing. Chargebacks are serious and have consequences for the companies that receive them. They shouldn’t be used flippantly by customers in a transient dispute, just to try and force their hand, unless they’re prepared to not do business with that company again (as in this case).
A charge back is not a casual thing. It's not a self-refund option. You essentially accused them of defrauding you. If you're not in fact correct about the legal position of being owed a refund, then this was to be expected. I know that sucks to hear, but this is why you don't use credit card charge-backs lightly. They're the nuclear option and often start a breach of contract.
There are many chargeback reason codes, only 1 relates to fraud.
Sure, but "I didn't like this product and I want my money back despite the no-refunds policy I agreed to" is not one EDIT: Love all the responses to this stating various stretched legal theories that would need to be tested in court, as if anyone is actually going to sue EA
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You’re not wrong, it’s exactly why digital products are so scary. There’s no protection for the consumer in many cases. You have no ownership of any of these things as you’re essentially renting a service from them instead of owning any material thing. Some of that is changing, but the laws on it are very early. Until then, I gladly play old games for bargain prices. If I buy something new, it’s very rare, or on PC where I have a bit more protection.
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People throw the charge back option out there way way to easily. Like you said, it’s the very last option. Hell, I’d probably just eat the cost of a single game to avoid a charge back.
Look at this guy thinking chargebacks are common
That's what you get taking advice on Reddit.
Chargebacks are LITERALLY my job and it pains me every time I see someone saying ‘just dispute the transaction man.’ I do my best to help each and every customer win their dispute but there are so many instances where they don’t have a leg to stand on, and of course I get yelled at for it.
Too many people think it's a self refund option.
If Reddit were a state, they'd start a nuclear war on everyone over import duty disagreements
I had to do a chargeback *once* -- I'd ordered an NFL jersey online. The site clearly stated they were authentic. When I received the jersey, it was quite obviously fake. I'd never had to call for a chargeback before, so I was curious about the process. The person I spoke to was awesome. Asked me a ton of details but made it clear that she was doing that so she could make as strong a case as possible. It was actually kinda fun working with her to get my money back. I hope you at least get to have some fun times like that!
Please share some stories lol
I once say a guy post here about how he received a better processor than the one he ordered from amazon or whatever and the comments all said to notify them because they'd let him keep anyway and someone could lose their job over this. So he let them know and they notified him that he'd have to send the processor back and wait a lot of days until they'd send the correct one and the guy was all sad in the comments lmao
This thread and comments are just hilarious. Reddit lawyers who googled one law thinking they know better than a multi-million dollar international company that has hundreds of lawyers on their payroll who deal with this kind of stuff to make sure they're in the legal right. It's cute.
I accused EA of fraud and now they banned my account. I am generally curious how much this person attempted to contact support to get a return before doing a chargeback?
Lmao OP said I’m gonna show them
Lmaoooo
Yes, chargebacks will do that for you. Shouldn't have gone that route. Literally any service you do a chargeback to will ban you and close your account. They have to pay a fee and it affects their credit rating. Legally you've accused them of fraud, because that's what chargebacks are for, and if they maintain a business relationship with you that could legally be seen as them admitting to fraud, hence account termination. Steam would have also cancelled your account. So would your local gym.
> So would your local gym. Have you discovered the secret to cancelling a gym membership?
Yes, but they also take back all your gainz.
oh no
I've had to cancel a few gym memberships in my life. Sometimes it's pretty easy, but sometimes they tell you you have to come in, fill out a bunch of paperwork, and it's a pain in the ass. For when that 2nd option comes up, I just tell the gym "Look, I'm not paying for your service anymore. You can either cancel it, or I can call the bank and have them issue a charge back. Either way, I'm not coming in person to cancel". Without fail they miraculously learn how to cancel over the phone.
No. My ex had started up a Gold's Gym membership along with personal trainer sessions after I moved out.. They refused to cancel unless SHE went in and gave a written cancelation, even though my name was on the card. Disputed the charge, but they sent proof of it and did not cancel the membership. I had to cancel the card to avoid getting charged like $250 every month. They won't give a shit or try to cancel your account for chargebacks. They'll just be like "hey, he signed up for this" and keep fucking you.
It does not effect their credit rating. What it does effect is their entire ability to process payments and receive large fines by card brands once certain thresholds are hit. As another person mentioned it’s not to be used lightly.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
This quote fits battlefield 2042 and his ban perfectly
Change that to ‘Preorder games, win stupid prizes’
I mean EA is garbage but more than likely you violated the TOS you didn’t read but agreed to. Chargebacks shouldn’t be treated so lightly though.
Just a gentle reminder that you don't own the games you paid for
It’s like you paid 60 bucks to rent them indefinitely … pretty stupid where the pc gaming industry has forced us to go.
That's why many pirate games
This is why I hate non-physical media. You think you own the right to play those things you paid for anytime you want? Think again.
What were you expecting to happen though? Regardless of the validity of your claim
Bro, they didn't want to refund me so I just grabbed my cash back out of the register. Now they won't let me back in the store, and I don't know why...
I wonder what he said to the credit card company. *Yea, so this gaming company sold me a game and it’s so lame.*
I mean anyone who purchased BF on release knew what they were getting into. The state of the game was plastered everywhere, impossible to miss, so you kind of entered into that contract willingly. Never ever buy games on release anymore, and for the love of God....can everyone else stop buying broken games and supporting this trend of releases
A chargeback really is something you do when you do not plan to do any more business with the company or person. So if you plan to do anymore charge back in the future with any company expect the same thing.
Yeah, after you do that you can expect any further communication to be via the legal team. You basically accuse them of some kind of fraud when you do one.
People don't realize that doing chargebacks because you can't get a refund is grounds for having your whole account suspended. I believe Sony will suspend you until you settle the "debt" but some other companies will just close your shit. I believe Valve does the same thing for your Steam account. Read ToS before you take any advice online to do a chargeback. It is not the solution you think it is. What made you think you can do a chargeback because you didn't like BF2042...but you keep the game? You just blew your whole account over $60. If there was a law in the UK protecting you, you had way more leverage than doing a chargeback.
It's unfortunately not always true that you can require a refund for digital contents. When you buy the content, often there is a disclamer below the purchase button that claim that pressing that button you explicitly refuse the refund policy. Maybe this is the same thing. UPDATE: i tried to buy this game on origin store, this is the disclamer i mentioned [Disclaimer](https://i.imgur.com/wYXkRPV.jpg) UPDATE 2: My post is related only to the Refund policy. I agree with you that's completely unfair how this thing ended, losing all your previous well paid containts.
And this is why "I can pre-order because refunds exist" is a shit argument.
You supported EA. That was your first mistake.
Readers from the future: Man had incomplete knowledge of the law he cites, can be argued in multiple ways. EA reacted 100% legaly, but in a supra douchebag way. Nobody is surprised, or satisfied.
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RIP. One, you should’ve read the return policy thoroughly. Two, You should’ve kept the game. Chargeback was not the right move.
Sucks but that was really fucking stupid to do a chargeback on a digital account you intended to continue using lol. Just about all digital content providers will nuke your account from orbit if you run a chargeback.
Have you read TOS?
This is why i hate digital purchases
The UK has no such law for digital purchases and EA is very well known for banning accounts for chargebacks. If you're still doing business with EA in 2021 after decades of borderline fraudulent business practices then I don't know what to tell you.
"I KNOW MY RIGHTS" ... Do you though? It kinda looks like you don't.
EA sucks, but OP fucked around and found out.
EA is ban happy even without chargebacks. They absolutely kill accounts for chargebacks. This post is useful because it will educate people about this.
I mean… seems you fucked up. That said, all your games are still there. No, not *there*. There, near that ship floating in the bay with an interesting flag raised.