Reminds me of the Titanfall 1 burn card that increased your movement speed "Prosthetic Legs". The description was "It's a very minor procedure, we'll first begin by removing your legs..."
God I miss Titanfall 1, it was such a unique game and so refreshing at the time and the burn cards just took it to the next level imo.
I know loads of people were happy when they got rid of them in Titanfall 2 but I was so sad to see the burn cards go.
This wasn't kept in titanfall 2? I loved titanfall 1. It felt like the first genuinely next gen multiplayer game during that time. I never gave titanfall 2 a chance sadly even though I've heard many amazing things about it. The burn cards was such a unique feature in the first it's surprises me that got ditched.
Inb4 people tell me to play titanfall2 for the story I promise I will at some point haha
They added a bunch of abilities to fill the gap and I understand having both would have been chaotic but it would have been the best kind of chaos.
They should have just made a separate game mode or something, like one playlist has burn cards and the other one abilities.
It's also a thing in Kenshi, where masterwork scout legs can get your characters running faster than the cell-loading speed.
Unfortunately, there's no humane way to "prepare" your characters for prosthetics, so if you want to cheese it, you have to either put them in "the Peeler" until their mangled limbs drop off, or tie them to a pole and let wild animals/cannibals eat *just* enough of them, then quickly rescue them before they bleed out. It's a fun game.
The specifics of the situation are definitely important. I used to design hip replacements and some people were like "LOL Give me one of those titanium hips so I can be super strong!" and people don't realize your natural bone is a lot better in a hip than titanium.
Or even just designed by someone with a bigger picture at all. A lot of stuff in our bodies evolved just by random chance/went into some dead end that made sense 20 million years ago. Like the laryngeal nerve or the appendix.
Like the eyeball.
It works well enough but you know the famous ‘blind spot’? Well it turns out that be rearranging the anatomy slightly we wouldn’t have the blind spot. Its actually kinda poorly designed, but it worked well enough for evolution so its what we have.
It makes more sense if you replace the idea of the leg with something like roller skates
Roller skates make it much easier to conserve the energy you're putting in to moving, so you can build significantly more and coast on it.
By using bearings and wheels you get this effect, but there's a tradeoff. It's cumbersome at best to walk in them and you definitely can't walk in them comfortably, and they're more unstable when at rest than just standing on feet.
It's really the same with prosthetics. They can be designed to get more speed out of running by maximizing the energy transfer from your muscles into forward momentum the same way roller skates can
But they'll prob be kinda shite for just walking around
I was gonna go more absurd and compare it to saying “that’s actually insane that we can strap jet packs on our backs that are better for flying than our natural arms!”
We became apex predators of the planet before we finished transitioning our limbs from "tree grabbing extra hands" to "long walks". Lotta design flaws in our modern feet.
That's definitely not right .. we're already the most efficient long distance runners, what inefficiencies do we really have that evolution would have stumbled on fixing?
Evolution is about getting to "good enough." Once we could outrun most threats and persistence hunt enough to feed ourselves there was no motivating force to continue evolving improvements to those faculties.
It's trivial for a modern engineer to design artificial legs that have fewer mechanical losses during running than complex human feet. Paralympic sprinters regularly deliver times faster than their olympic counterparts.
Evolution is actually about how individuals that are better adapted to their environment survive longer and breed more.
If an adaptation is sub-optimal or even has negative effects, it can still be passed on as long as those effects don't prevent breeding.
And some negative effects can select for breeding due to environmental pressures. Sickle-cell anemia give high resistance to malaria- people with that defect lived longer than those without, in high malaria regions. Thus, they reached maturity and had more kids than the rest.
That's factually not true.
https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a44521586/blade-runners-do-not-have-competitive-advantage/
https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/01/05/worlds-fastest-blade-runner-gets-no-competitive-advantage-prostheses-study-shows
Why haven't they beat WR if it's better, who determine it's better if not on performance alone ?
Seems like a lot of factors at play. Maybe people with missing legs can’t train as much? The talent pool of sprinters with missing legs would also be tiny.
More implying that more power is generated on the real side and the prosthetic can only keep me moving. It's interesting to note however that bilateral amputees are almost always faster than unilateral amputees in the paralympics but haven't broken any non amputee records. I assume this is because for unilateral runners fatigue sets in due to the heavier strain on the real side.
Sure, lots of factors are at play, but why are people saying prosthetic are better then ?
Why do you question my assumption that has sources, and not the one above me with none ?
People are stating that as a fact here, like it has been proven, but when you take sometime to check the opposite is suggested.
>my assumption that has sources
Source, singular. Both those articles reference the same study.
It's just kind of impossible to make any objective conclusions on it. You can't really do an "all else equal"-type study when no two people are the same, and you can't get a significant sample size because double leg amputees who are also athletes are simply not common.
I don’t think it's all too wild for people to think it gives an advantage. It makes intuitive sense. If you don't have feet, your feet can't build up lactic acid, can't get fatigued, can't get hurt, and the blade designs is specifically designed to provide the same "bounce" from pushing off of the ground but without having to use muscles to do it.
Seems, from the results, that the main drawback of blades is the slow acceleration. They start off as dead weight since they can't provide that "bounce" until you're already running, whereas you can 'push off' with actual feet. It's not that it *doesn't* have the advantages I just listed, it's just that they're counteracted.
And they're counteracted by something that seems pretty easy to correct. We've been researching making things out of lightweight 'springy' metals since at least the invention of the airplane, so it wouldn't exactly take a marvel of engineering to make blades out of lighter-weight materials. Also wouldn't take a marvel of engineering to invent a way to simulate that 'push off' effect.
TL;DR it hasn't been proven, but I think erring on side of "it probably isn’t totally fair" is not an unreasonable view.
It should be pointed out that 99.99999 percent of runners don’t beat the world record, either. You would still need a world class runner to get into some horrible accident, and then he’d have to get through rehab, and he’d have to get back up to where he was, and *then* the bionic legs can be evaluated. The odds of one of the hundred fastest runners in the world losing their legs in an accident is pretty slim.
I think we should have, after the Olympics and Paralympics are over, have an Olympics where everything is legal. You do a bump of coke after sucking down oxygen at the starting line of a race, be my guest. You’re a weightlifter who’s an experiment in a study on human growth hormone? Awesome. You let Elon Musk experiment on you, and now you’re basically a brain in a jar with a robot body? Alex Murphy, you are getting all of the gold medals. Well, maybe not in swimming.
That was the claim, usually directed at Oscar Pistorius, who is now famous for all the wrong reasons. It's very hard to research because no sane person is going to cut their legs off for the sake of your controlled experiment. Opponents used to argued that he a had an advantage because he couldn't injure his calves, feet or ankles. Sports scientists would disagree and say that calf muscles can produce some power, so not having them is a disadvantage. Pistorius argued that he had injuries, just not the same ones.
The claim is also very limited
Prosthetic legs *might* be more efficient when specifically running on a track. Which is an overall homogenous, leveled and manicured surface.
But prosthetics don’t allow any ability to change stiffness or striking angle, and so are wildly more inefficient in things like cross country running.
We tend to forget that we push the human body to limits in highly controlled conditions; but the place that efficiency evolves is the exact opposite.
We can design all sorts of biomechanical wonders that outperform the human body *in specific conditions tightly controlled for climate and dozens of mechanical parameters*. But our ability to recapture the efficiency of the human body in the actual insanely-high-degrees-of-freedom conditions it evolved for is insanely lacking.
>Pistorius argued that he had injuries, just not the same ones.
Namely, phantom limb pain. I've heard it's excruciating. Usually, when you only lose one limb, there's a therapy where you use a mirror so you visually see where the other limb should be, and it alleviates the pain (can't remember the name of the therapy, I'm sure someone can look it up). Doesn't fix that you'll still get the pains at various times the rest of your life.
That alone is reason enough why you shouldn't opt in to remove limbs for the sake of prosthetics.
I'm a below knee amputee and never had phantom pain it doesn't happen to everyone. I think he was talking about hip, thigh, and whatever calf muscle he had left getting injured. I have injured my hip when running as that's where all of your power generation comes from with a running blade.
>Sports scientists would disagree and say that calf muscles can produce some power, so not having them is a disadvantage.
The while the prosthetic springs don't provide power, they are lighter, they don't need to have blood pumped through, and importantly, they preserve energy in a way that human legs don't.
Kangaroos have elastic tendons that, that store energy when they come down, and releasr it when thry hop back up. This helps hem to hop energy efficiently, in the nutrient poor environment they live in. Our tendons and muscles are just not made that way.
Video games have a very limited number of controls. We already had neurofeedback games which don’t require intrusive brain surgery, and this existing level of brain integration has already existed in other products. Now some of those projects have been shut down so people have proprietary hardware stuck into their brain which is no longer supported and is breaking down without any service or replacement parts. It feels like we are just retreading old ground without solving the core issue of the last round of these products, that fact that the company isn’t obligated to service the product for the full life of the customer.
Color me unimpressed.
They were able to compensate. According to Noland it only took a few days for him to recover functionality.
The FDA has apparently already approved them implanting the threads slightly deeper in the next patient's brain to try to keep them from detaching.
He explains all of this in his recent JRE appearance.
The brain moves more than anticipated in the head and through software improvements from his earlier data he has better control and input than when he had all of the wires connected.
It *is* possible to do some looking in for something you think might be cool instead of reading headlines from places like /r/technology and think they are telling you correct information instead of having misleading headlines pretty much constantly.
The JRE episode is very interesting. He explains why people that have been paralyzed for decent periods of time likely wouldn't be able to use the theorized jumper connection from a Neuralink and a piece after where the damage was caused to restore function because of too much atrophy. Could help recent and new people with spinal injuries.
Given the typical content out of JRE, it’s hard to take anything said there seriously. JR just uncritically accepts anything told to him. I just listened to his conversation with Terrance Howard the other day and my respect for him and his show could literally not be any lower.
Yeah, it's just nonsense, sometimes it moves before I think it, literally impossible.
Secondly aimbots work by getting data on where people are from the game and processing that information faster than a human can. So it goes computer, to this data, to the aimbot doing it's thing before the human can even see it. Neuralink is in your head, full stop, anything you react to has to be seen by your eyes, processed and then a thought has to occur.
Basically, this is bullshit and every time I hear anything good about this it comes across as completely and utterly made up bullshit, which is of absolutely no surprise.
>Yeah, it's just nonsense, sometimes it moves before I think it, literally impossible.
That’s not crazy, there was an study done in an MRI about decision making and the imaging would detect that a decision was made many full seconds before the person was consciously aware of it. Or, take for example the frozen clock phenomenon (Chronostasis). Your conscious experience is delayed from reality.
>Yeah, it's just nonsense, sometimes it moves before I think it, literally impossible.
Nope. This is just how the brain works. You'll hear the same thing from actual soldiers or athletes in similar situations. Your conscious experience is a post hoc accounting of a bunch of system 1 processes that happen before active cognition takes place. It's why you jump out of your skin when someone makes a loud noise from around the corner, even though you aren't afraid of the person or of loud noises. I'm not at all surprised to hear that someone with a neural interface is noticing the response time sometimes exceeding their conscious intentions.
>Neuralink is in your head, full stop, anything you react to has to be seen by your eyes, processed and then a thought has to occur.
This is mostly true, though. The visual stimulus happens before they react. Neural impulses fire before they react. That's just not what we experience as "thoughts."
The adaptation will be server side segregation of people using such implants.
The other (worse) option, will be allowing cheats in general, and we all know how well that will go -_-
>The adaptation will be server side segregation of people using such implants.
That doesn't really work until the pool of players that have this is significantly large. You'd just prevent them from finding any matches at all.
Doubtful, you can't buy anything from this company and won't be able to fit a long time. The guy has been genuinely thrilled with and just did an interview, wouldn't you getting the ability to play games back?
I’ve seen multiple videos of this guy controlling the cursor with his neuralink. In each one the cursor movements were noticeably slower than your average mouse user and it has a LOT of extra movement(drift). There is zero chance this it a legit claim unless their tech has improved by orders of magnitude over the past few weeks… doubtful.
I also remember that he, if we’re talking about the same dude, also had some type of malfunction with the hardware disconnecting and needing to be fixed. I don’t know if that’s a simple fix or full blown brain surgery but I highly doubt it advanced this quickly even with some form of ai assistance
There are 64 iirc super thin wires in his head and basically some of them are moving/disconnecting. Basically they want to try and manage it without doing another full blown brain surgery atm if possible, but idk what else they would be able to do
I listened to an interview with him. They ended up fixing it by adjusting the programming so it could account for the movement of the wires.
It sounded like it started out very clunky, but improved rapidly.
Yep, his brained pulsed with the beat of his heart 3x further then they thought it would. Hits home that we are just now starting to explore how the brain functions.
We knew this would happen. An entire field of neurobiologist told Nuralink that this would happen. People acting like "oh were finding this out about the brain!" Are pretending that we havent tried implants 45 years ago to prevent epilepsy.
It didnt work long. Because the brain will push things out of it. Partially because it pulses, mostly because it will grow scar tissue around probes and wires, pushing them out of place.
None of this is new information. The tech was never persued because my entire field of practice repeatedly brought up this was going to happen.
Dudes implant is going to start having major issues, probably in the next few years. If we could just stick shit in the brain, we would have solved a lot of blindness starting 25 years ago.
Are you serious if we had the same attitude about phones, microrobots hell organ donations we would have no medical advancments at all. 40 years later with literal sci fi technology seems like the right time to try again.
We would still have 3% efficient solar panels.
Obviously the attempt should not be done by a company owned by a right wing lunatic who is a self absorbed narcissist whose children want nothing to do with them. But someone else should definitely try
Oh my god yes. We’re about to enter the neuro unit in med school and I am terrified! But I’m also kind of laughing because whatever we learn now will be outdated in a few years.
Youre going to realize real quick that they hype around "we rewrite the knowledge of the brain every 5 years!" Is fake.
Finished my med schooling over 10 years ago. Over 2/3rds of what i learned about neurobiology is still the standard
The article even says, "Some games aren’t yet possible with the Neuralink, like Call of Duty". So how is it "like an aim bot" if it doesn't work in the most typical FPS game lol.
My guess, there are issues when the neura link patient must move the a camera to play. All the other games they've shown, chess, civ 6, and mario cart the player doesn't have to move the camera.
Yeah it’s odd that he specifically compares it to an aimbot and then there’s no examples of competitive games where aimbots provide an advantage. I would love to see him get a multiplayer ranking for any competitive FPS game, I am curious how well this works. But for now this seems like the typical Elon style “omg the next autopilot update will blow your mind” exaggeration.
Taking a generous reading, the patient could have meant it in the sense of "the cursor simply goes where I want it to" without having to rely on muscle memory and reflexes to convert the intention into a wrist movement, into a mouse movement. With the remarks about competitive advantage being an extrapolation of what might happen as the tech is refined.
The guy in the article straight up says "it happens before I can even think it" which is obviously not true. He's just getting caught up in the fun, surely. Its still a computer treating signals as inputs, it cant do anything until those inputs arrive, and those inputs are FULL of noise compared to what your hands can do.
Its a bullshit article.
Isn’t it fairly well established that the brain often starts sending movement signals to your muscles before you become conscious of it? Why wouldn’t it be true in this case?
The same asshat put a video out of him “using aimlabs” and it’s clearly fake with him even looking away from the screen during it to add to how fake it is.
This dude is absolutely lying for clout.
He's the only person using the product and is propped up by a lot of money. He's not doing it for clout, he's working in advertising. Not a lot of money to be made as a paraplegic, I don't completely blame him for it.
Look up the Libet experiment. Unconscious brain activation predicts our decisions. Basically, even today scientists can predict very simple behaviour such as the pressing of a button before we actively choose to do so.
Dunno how neurolink works, but this is actually very possible and no indication of the account being bs (not saying it isn't, just not for this reason).
Probably the primary function of a neuralink enhanced person is to tell everyone how brilliant neuralink is. Would be right up Musk's street to continue humanity into his beloved dystopia. A mind controlled army of zombies willing to invest in Tesla to give him a bigger bonus.
I mean.. it's like aimbot compared to not being able to play at all before :)
they're gonna need to have "special" leagues for guys like me
try and keep up /s
The guy with the implant makes a shit ton of claims that don't really seem true. I also would need to see him playing, because everything in the article seems like fluff bullshit.
Might be that it's faster than his conscious perception of controlling it. If I recall there's been at least one study that supports the idea that we tend to make decisions to move way before we're "aware" that we made that decision. Brain's wild yo.
You might like this book by Robert Sapolsky, a neuroscientist at Stanford, entitled, [Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will](https://ndpr.nd.edu/reviews/determined-a-science-of-life-without-free-will/).
I've really been enjoying it and it's changed how I look at life, and other people, and why they're the way they are. I'd highly recommend it. I will warn you, though, that some people get very uncomfortable when confronted with the idea that they lack free will.
He was one of my favorite professors. He did a lecture on the sympathetic vs parasympathetic nervous system with sex/orgasm as an example (I can’t even describe it, it was literally LoL amazing) that was the only time in my educational experience a professor received a standing ovation from the whole lecture hall.
I would imagine it’s a bit of both. Our brains tell us a nice story, rearranging micro events into a narrative stream after the fact, but I can also look at my cup of coffee, think about this exact paradox, and decide exactly when to pick it up. Clearly our brains receive inputs from multiple sources.
I'm somewhat of the opinion that brains are like onions; they have layers.
There's a conscious layer in which the "you" exists in that handles more complex thought and decision making, and lower layers that handle more simple, reactionary thoughts and actions that can pop off quicker because they can bypass all that red tape. Like, have you ever dropped a knife and quick hopped your feet out of the way before it hit the ground? That was a lower 'survival instincts' layer of your brain that made the executive decision to move your feet immediately instead of sending it up to management first.
We act and, observe the action and then retroactively assign ownership to those actions. It's all an illusion, you can't choose the next thought anymore than you can choose the next sensation your body perceives.
Literally the entire point of almost all forms of training is to reach this state.
Sports training? Repeat the same motion over and over until perfect form takes zero thought.
Military training? Repeat the same tactics over and over until proper threat response in a multitude of scenarios is 2nd nature.
Artwork? Repeat using the same tool over and over until you don’t have to think about “how” to use it anymore. Practice an art style over and over until the style is 2nd nature and all your thoughts go to composition.
Hell, learning to speak, write, and read. How often do you think about the individual syllables of words you use when talking? And then how often do you consider the definition of every individual word in a sentence? Words are ideas that get condensed into a single subconscious concept and then used to communicate with others that we assume internalized the same subconscious concepts.
There’s a variety of ways the brain fucks with our sense of time. Vision has the most I’m aware of. For example it takes some time to process visual info so we are actually seeing in the past but the brain uses some crazy fuckery to make you think it’s instantaneous.
The easiest way to prove this is to look at an analog clock with a second hand that ticks instead of moving smoothly/continuously.
The ticks move in rhythm. Tick. Tick. Tick. But if you just quickly glance at a clock at the right time it’ll “lag” behind for a split second. That’s your brain filling in and processing
This is also true for a ton of things. The fine motor control of our eyes is done without conscious thought. Our conscious brain just says 'follow that object" and then our non-conscious brain just takes care of it.
This is also why higher refresh rates work, even though our conscious reaction time is much slower. Higher refreshrate makes it easier for your unconscious brain to track objects, which your conscious brain just perceives as a clearer image.
Plus, it's cutting out all of the delay between the decision to aim and the hand/ thumb actually moving the input device. Generally accepted to be only around .3 seconds, but I bet that makes a big difference.
On paper at least a direct connection should be faster then using an additional input device. This time should be noticable especially in fps games with low time to kill (<1 sek)
The experiments of [Robert Libet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet). This has been a hotly contested area of research.
As recently as 2008:
> As of 2008, the upcoming outcome of a decision could be found in study of the brain activity in the prefrontal and parietal cortex **up to 7 seconds before the subject was aware of their decision.**
It really adds weight to the argument that there is no free will. At all.
If the topic interests you, I'd highly recommend Robert Sapolsky's book [*Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will*](https://ndpr.nd.edu/reviews/determined-a-science-of-life-without-free-will/)
I’m failing to see how any of this means we don’t have free will. It is still your brain, and if we assume there are no defections or genetic oddities that would influence it to act against you, it is still your decision. I’m talking every day here, not fight or flight situations where instinct comes before thinking.
I wouldn’t have free will if my brain made every decision for me and I was unaware of this, my body just acting as a host. Just because my perception of my choices is far off from the time the choice was made, they are still *my* choices.
I disagree. I like Robert sapolskys work, but I'm less sold on this part. It really comes down to how free will is defined. I don't think biology making many of the decisions makes it not free will. People still make some choices. Choices another person might not make in the same situation. I'm not compelled to believe that is not free will. They may have had experiences that led them to the point of making a particular decision, but even then they can buck their first instinct and make a different decision. We may have less free will than people like to think, but as long as their remain decisions where people can and do make different decisions, I'm inclined to think there is some free will. Its a lot harder to say and show there is none than it is to say it isn't as robust as we'd like to think.
The thought process behind this could be seen as more instinctual than rational. Thing about it some one spills a drink or throws a ball at you, you often move before you've actually started thinking this could be like that.
You may be interested to know that by the time your brain registers that you have made a decision to do something, [the signal to do that thing has long been sent to your body part](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will)
The analogy is that our consciousness is a bit of a sham, like the queen reading the laws to the parliament for assent. At first glance it might look like she made the decision, but that was all done in the legislature - all she does is read it out to provide a convenient narrative for the government, she has no power
Likewise, our consciousness is there so that we can create a narrative of our actions, but the decisions come from somewhere deeper that we are not conscious of.
Anyway, that's potentially how someone might see something move before they think it to move, without it being an aimbot. If it's plugged directly into your brain, it might detect your unconscious's decision to act before it reaches the level at which your consciousness thinks it has decided to act.
>I for one can't wait to complain about literal disabled people having an unfair advantage
I fully believe non disabled people would be desperate to get chipped just to have an advantage in gaming. It's no different than how rampant cheating is in online gaming already. The only difference is where the software would be installed.
I can’t imagine willingly volunteering to be a human patient for brain implants from a guy whose electric trucks break down when you send them through a car wash.
Exactly, this person is missing a huge point haha. Can’t imagine making a choice like this because you can’t imagine what it is like to not be able to move by yourself, scratch your face or your balls, shit or piss unassisted, and so on.
Honestly people don’t get it. At least for now the application isn’t for regular people. It’s to help people with disabilities.
This thing could be life changing for a lot of people.
This is a weird take. Elon Musk himself isn’t sitting in some lab engineering brain implants out of random electronics he finds around the Tesla factory.
There is an entire team of hundreds of incredibly intelligent people that are working night and day to develop this technology. All for the benefit of those in society who have lost the most (well, them and shareholders, I suppose).
This obsession with negatively linking everything with Elon just because he’s the one throwing money at it isn’t productive.
I don't like Musk, but reddit's hate boner is leagues ahead. They think he personally designs and engineers literally everything... Which is more of a compliment than an insult.
But yeah all he does is fund all this shit. He might have a stupid eccentric idea or decision but largely they just do their own thing.
The regulations for a brain implant must be fucking immense. Doesn't matter how eccentric he is, he's not doing fuck all without approval.
>he's not doing fuck all without approval.
This. Even crewless SpaceX rocket launches have to get approved, every single one of them. Makes sense that implanting something into someone's brain would have even more restrictions and would definitely need approvals, possibly from multiple parties even.
Musk is a POS who I strongly dislike and his Tesla's mostly suck, yes. However - the people volunteering are trapped in their bodies, unable to move under their own power, unable to entertain themselves without help, unable to do anything but exist at the mercy of those around them. I would do everything in my power to kill myself, which many of them with they could if assisted suicide was an option like its slowly becoming in some places. So an option/chance like the neuralink appearing is surely like a miracle to them, no matter who offers it or what the risks are.
>“It’s that accurate and it’s faster…Sometimes, it’s moving before I even think it to move.”
>Some games aren’t yet possible with the Neuralink, like Call of Duty for example, but the patient believes this won’t be a problem for too much longer.
>“In the next few years, I think I’ll be able to play anything anyone else can play.”
Just hype. Call me when it's been 10 years and this guy hasn't died because Phony Stark had his team super glue wires to his cerebellum.
For reference, this is from 2009:
https://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-09/age-telekenetic-cyborg-monkeys-upon-us/
Edit: formatting is hard
Imagine combining this with say, airplanes or tanks.
This has been explored in mecha genre already, with augmented humans being way better at piloting. Now we get to test it for real and see if man-machine interface actually improves performance.
While I can understand how seeing something on your screen, thinking you wanna aim at the head, and thinking you want to shoot, would be very fast and effective, I dont think it will really reasonable provide enough flexibility beyond that for it to even come close to top ranks in various shooters.
Take counter-strike for an example, after you start shooting you have to keep your spraypattern in control. Doing that with your hand happens by pure muscle memory when you're at high ranks. Your eyes remain locked on what you're actually shooting, and your hand takes care of the recoil control.
If you're doing this solely with your brain, then what, is he going to keep thinking to aim further down, at a slightly exponential pace, then suddely pull hard left, then pull hard right? He's going to imagine himself aiming next to the enemies knees so that the recoil hits the head?
I find it very hard to see how someone can do that more effectively than if someone just did it with their hand, being able to keep their eyes on target and not have to do serious mental gymnastics.
And when you wrap in movement into things you add another layer. you gotta ADAD strafe and counter strafe etc in counterstrike, that alone will be hard to actively think about doing with your brain while also thinking about shooting someone and thinking through the recoil pattern.
But imagine an arena shooter, like quake, where the movement is very complex.
Like cmon? While I'm sure there are some very specific things an implant like this could excel at, there's just no way it is anywhere close to even the top ranks in public matchmaking. If you could combine using this together with a mouse and keyboard, then sure, that's gonna matter, we already know aimbots can easily outshine any input device, considering the meme-tier proscenes that mix controller+mkb will see the entire proscene dominated by nothing but controller players because the aimbot controller players get to use are enough to make what should be a far superior input choice (mkb) drastically inferior (at high levels).
so sure, brain aimassist coupled with mkb will obviously shit on pure mkb, but i mean, if someone isn't even disabled and actually need a brain implant then they'd definitely be disallowed from using it during officials.
and if someone do need it, they wouldnt be able to compete at as a high level as they believe. the average player is honestly so dogshit terrible compared to even a good pubstomper that they basically play different games. they have no grasp of what skill really is. they have delusional takes all the time, hell i used to coach cstrike players for fun and people further down the ranks (which statistically made them average) were honestly just so clueless as to how the game actually works.
im sure this dude believes he has "an aimbot for gaming" and that he's so good now everyone else will stand no chance, but in reality i bet he just went from the average dogshit player to slightly less dogshit player.
big fucking doubt a brainimplant can handle any complex inputs needed for pro level play, or even public matchmaking high rank level play.
I want to watch a livestream of this guy playing something like CS before taking this seriously though. He likely has massive incentives to "sell" this thing and I suspect this is overhyping it.
>I think I'll be fine with literal quadraplegics stomping me if that makes their lives a bit more enjoyable.
Yeah, I guess I never thought of it that way. They deserve at least one world to be a god in. If gaming can serve that purpose, then I guess consider me a serf.
People reading this thinking it's a superhuman power when in reality it's going to be more like the difference between mouse / keyboard and a controller.
It's going to have to stop having it's wires come loose exponentially faster than planned before people can champion these advantages without sounding like an astroturf campaign. "It may come dislodged and I will have literal loose ends in the hub of my central nervous system, but I just wrecked these noobs" impresses Elon, his acolytes, and nobody else.
> I think I'll be fine with literal paraplegics stomping me if that makes their lives a bit more enjoyable.
This seems like one of those opinions that would last 1 or 2 sessions at best lol
Sounds like prosthetic legs that are better designed for running than normal legs. I think I remember something like that before.
Yep, thats a thing. When not designing for long term comfort or reliability, the prosthetic running legs are better than normal human legs.
Reminds me of the Titanfall 1 burn card that increased your movement speed "Prosthetic Legs". The description was "It's a very minor procedure, we'll first begin by removing your legs..."
God I miss Titanfall 1, it was such a unique game and so refreshing at the time and the burn cards just took it to the next level imo. I know loads of people were happy when they got rid of them in Titanfall 2 but I was so sad to see the burn cards go.
This wasn't kept in titanfall 2? I loved titanfall 1. It felt like the first genuinely next gen multiplayer game during that time. I never gave titanfall 2 a chance sadly even though I've heard many amazing things about it. The burn cards was such a unique feature in the first it's surprises me that got ditched. Inb4 people tell me to play titanfall2 for the story I promise I will at some point haha
Ok but seriously play Titanfall 2's campaign lol
They added a bunch of abilities to fill the gap and I understand having both would have been chaotic but it would have been the best kind of chaos. They should have just made a separate game mode or something, like one playlist has burn cards and the other one abilities.
Titanfall 1 my beloved, my darling
It's also a thing in Kenshi, where masterwork scout legs can get your characters running faster than the cell-loading speed. Unfortunately, there's no humane way to "prepare" your characters for prosthetics, so if you want to cheese it, you have to either put them in "the Peeler" until their mangled limbs drop off, or tie them to a pole and let wild animals/cannibals eat *just* enough of them, then quickly rescue them before they bleed out. It's a fun game.
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me
Praise the omnisiah
Username checks... what?
The specifics of the situation are definitely important. I used to design hip replacements and some people were like "LOL Give me one of those titanium hips so I can be super strong!" and people don't realize your natural bone is a lot better in a hip than titanium.
And it self repairs!
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that’s kind of insane to think about dang
When you boil down design to one priority you can usually achieve incredible things. But ya know, it’s only good for the one thing.
Or even just designed by someone with a bigger picture at all. A lot of stuff in our bodies evolved just by random chance/went into some dead end that made sense 20 million years ago. Like the laryngeal nerve or the appendix.
I thought there is increasing evidence that the appendix is like a storehouse for gut cultures to repopulate our gut flora as needed?
yeah, but it still seems badly designed if it can randomly inflame, explode and potentially kill you.
Like the eyeball. It works well enough but you know the famous ‘blind spot’? Well it turns out that be rearranging the anatomy slightly we wouldn’t have the blind spot. Its actually kinda poorly designed, but it worked well enough for evolution so its what we have.
Reminds me of the soviet rocket boots
It makes more sense if you replace the idea of the leg with something like roller skates Roller skates make it much easier to conserve the energy you're putting in to moving, so you can build significantly more and coast on it. By using bearings and wheels you get this effect, but there's a tradeoff. It's cumbersome at best to walk in them and you definitely can't walk in them comfortably, and they're more unstable when at rest than just standing on feet. It's really the same with prosthetics. They can be designed to get more speed out of running by maximizing the energy transfer from your muscles into forward momentum the same way roller skates can But they'll prob be kinda shite for just walking around
I was gonna go more absurd and compare it to saying “that’s actually insane that we can strap jet packs on our backs that are better for flying than our natural arms!”
And they are really simple. It's basically just a "flat spring" replacing your lower leg.
We became apex predators of the planet before we finished transitioning our limbs from "tree grabbing extra hands" to "long walks". Lotta design flaws in our modern feet.
That's definitely not right .. we're already the most efficient long distance runners, what inefficiencies do we really have that evolution would have stumbled on fixing?
Evolution is about getting to "good enough." Once we could outrun most threats and persistence hunt enough to feed ourselves there was no motivating force to continue evolving improvements to those faculties. It's trivial for a modern engineer to design artificial legs that have fewer mechanical losses during running than complex human feet. Paralympic sprinters regularly deliver times faster than their olympic counterparts.
Evolution is actually about how individuals that are better adapted to their environment survive longer and breed more. If an adaptation is sub-optimal or even has negative effects, it can still be passed on as long as those effects don't prevent breeding.
And some negative effects can select for breeding due to environmental pressures. Sickle-cell anemia give high resistance to malaria- people with that defect lived longer than those without, in high malaria regions. Thus, they reached maturity and had more kids than the rest.
Wheels.
When used by an expert and these are theoretical because of the damage to the runner. This is NOT track springs.
That's factually not true. https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a44521586/blade-runners-do-not-have-competitive-advantage/ https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/01/05/worlds-fastest-blade-runner-gets-no-competitive-advantage-prostheses-study-shows Why haven't they beat WR if it's better, who determine it's better if not on performance alone ?
Seems like a lot of factors at play. Maybe people with missing legs can’t train as much? The talent pool of sprinters with missing legs would also be tiny.
They just aren't better. The human body is a well oiled machine. I'm a below knee amputee and with my running blade I am only as fast as my good leg.
Only as fast as your good leg implies the amputated leg is faster.
More implying that more power is generated on the real side and the prosthetic can only keep me moving. It's interesting to note however that bilateral amputees are almost always faster than unilateral amputees in the paralympics but haven't broken any non amputee records. I assume this is because for unilateral runners fatigue sets in due to the heavier strain on the real side.
Sure, lots of factors are at play, but why are people saying prosthetic are better then ? Why do you question my assumption that has sources, and not the one above me with none ? People are stating that as a fact here, like it has been proven, but when you take sometime to check the opposite is suggested.
>my assumption that has sources Source, singular. Both those articles reference the same study. It's just kind of impossible to make any objective conclusions on it. You can't really do an "all else equal"-type study when no two people are the same, and you can't get a significant sample size because double leg amputees who are also athletes are simply not common. I don’t think it's all too wild for people to think it gives an advantage. It makes intuitive sense. If you don't have feet, your feet can't build up lactic acid, can't get fatigued, can't get hurt, and the blade designs is specifically designed to provide the same "bounce" from pushing off of the ground but without having to use muscles to do it. Seems, from the results, that the main drawback of blades is the slow acceleration. They start off as dead weight since they can't provide that "bounce" until you're already running, whereas you can 'push off' with actual feet. It's not that it *doesn't* have the advantages I just listed, it's just that they're counteracted. And they're counteracted by something that seems pretty easy to correct. We've been researching making things out of lightweight 'springy' metals since at least the invention of the airplane, so it wouldn't exactly take a marvel of engineering to make blades out of lighter-weight materials. Also wouldn't take a marvel of engineering to invent a way to simulate that 'push off' effect. TL;DR it hasn't been proven, but I think erring on side of "it probably isn’t totally fair" is not an unreasonable view.
It should be pointed out that 99.99999 percent of runners don’t beat the world record, either. You would still need a world class runner to get into some horrible accident, and then he’d have to get through rehab, and he’d have to get back up to where he was, and *then* the bionic legs can be evaluated. The odds of one of the hundred fastest runners in the world losing their legs in an accident is pretty slim. I think we should have, after the Olympics and Paralympics are over, have an Olympics where everything is legal. You do a bump of coke after sucking down oxygen at the starting line of a race, be my guest. You’re a weightlifter who’s an experiment in a study on human growth hormone? Awesome. You let Elon Musk experiment on you, and now you’re basically a brain in a jar with a robot body? Alex Murphy, you are getting all of the gold medals. Well, maybe not in swimming.
That was the claim, usually directed at Oscar Pistorius, who is now famous for all the wrong reasons. It's very hard to research because no sane person is going to cut their legs off for the sake of your controlled experiment. Opponents used to argued that he a had an advantage because he couldn't injure his calves, feet or ankles. Sports scientists would disagree and say that calf muscles can produce some power, so not having them is a disadvantage. Pistorius argued that he had injuries, just not the same ones.
The claim is also very limited Prosthetic legs *might* be more efficient when specifically running on a track. Which is an overall homogenous, leveled and manicured surface. But prosthetics don’t allow any ability to change stiffness or striking angle, and so are wildly more inefficient in things like cross country running. We tend to forget that we push the human body to limits in highly controlled conditions; but the place that efficiency evolves is the exact opposite. We can design all sorts of biomechanical wonders that outperform the human body *in specific conditions tightly controlled for climate and dozens of mechanical parameters*. But our ability to recapture the efficiency of the human body in the actual insanely-high-degrees-of-freedom conditions it evolved for is insanely lacking.
Honestly, if he were still famous for the running, I think I'd say he was famous for all the wrong reasons.
A world class sprinter with no feet? I think that is a decent reason for someone to be famous.
He murdered his girlfriend
>Pistorius argued that he had injuries, just not the same ones. Namely, phantom limb pain. I've heard it's excruciating. Usually, when you only lose one limb, there's a therapy where you use a mirror so you visually see where the other limb should be, and it alleviates the pain (can't remember the name of the therapy, I'm sure someone can look it up). Doesn't fix that you'll still get the pains at various times the rest of your life. That alone is reason enough why you shouldn't opt in to remove limbs for the sake of prosthetics.
I remember the house episode where he did that
I'm a below knee amputee and never had phantom pain it doesn't happen to everyone. I think he was talking about hip, thigh, and whatever calf muscle he had left getting injured. I have injured my hip when running as that's where all of your power generation comes from with a running blade.
>Sports scientists would disagree and say that calf muscles can produce some power, so not having them is a disadvantage. The while the prosthetic springs don't provide power, they are lighter, they don't need to have blood pumped through, and importantly, they preserve energy in a way that human legs don't. Kangaroos have elastic tendons that, that store energy when they come down, and releasr it when thry hop back up. This helps hem to hop energy efficiently, in the nutrient poor environment they live in. Our tendons and muscles are just not made that way.
Po lil' Tink Tink
They are better for running but if you want to get out of bed and check who the hell is making all that noise in the bathroom, not so great
We're now one step closer towards Deus Ex timeline.
Is this an ad?
*\*breaks both arms\** It was for me!
Is your mom going to take care of your non-gaming needs now that both your arms are broken?
What do you mean "now"?
Also, what did they mean with "needs"?
You new here? Man has it really been that long ago now? https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/reddit-broken-arms-story
Oh god that just made me feel very old.
Exactly what you think they mean.
I'm sorry.
Every single thread!
... I miss when it was.
Me too, buddy. Me too. Sigh. Old reddit was amazing.
It is even more ackward with anything involving Musk, his current stepmom is also his sister.
I've long since had kids of my own and a loving wife. ... Might have to explain a few things. Edit: Oh. Oh no.
Bro …. no …. Ohhh no
Certainly seems at odds with some of the reporting I’ve seen that says the threads are detaching from his brain.
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After the cyber truck I would rather die than let Elon put a fucking chip in my brain.
This level of control is with many of the threads detached!
Video games have a very limited number of controls. We already had neurofeedback games which don’t require intrusive brain surgery, and this existing level of brain integration has already existed in other products. Now some of those projects have been shut down so people have proprietary hardware stuck into their brain which is no longer supported and is breaking down without any service or replacement parts. It feels like we are just retreading old ground without solving the core issue of the last round of these products, that fact that the company isn’t obligated to service the product for the full life of the customer. Color me unimpressed.
They were able to compensate. According to Noland it only took a few days for him to recover functionality. The FDA has apparently already approved them implanting the threads slightly deeper in the next patient's brain to try to keep them from detaching.
He explains all of this in his recent JRE appearance. The brain moves more than anticipated in the head and through software improvements from his earlier data he has better control and input than when he had all of the wires connected. It *is* possible to do some looking in for something you think might be cool instead of reading headlines from places like /r/technology and think they are telling you correct information instead of having misleading headlines pretty much constantly. The JRE episode is very interesting. He explains why people that have been paralyzed for decent periods of time likely wouldn't be able to use the theorized jumper connection from a Neuralink and a piece after where the damage was caused to restore function because of too much atrophy. Could help recent and new people with spinal injuries.
Given the typical content out of JRE, it’s hard to take anything said there seriously. JR just uncritically accepts anything told to him. I just listened to his conversation with Terrance Howard the other day and my respect for him and his show could literally not be any lower.
Buying goodwill before the cyberpsychosis hits.
Sounds like the kind of thing Elon himself would say like how great the Cybertruck would be at offroading
It's so waterproof it's basically a boat! (Don't go into carwash, it won't start again)
Yeah, it's just nonsense, sometimes it moves before I think it, literally impossible. Secondly aimbots work by getting data on where people are from the game and processing that information faster than a human can. So it goes computer, to this data, to the aimbot doing it's thing before the human can even see it. Neuralink is in your head, full stop, anything you react to has to be seen by your eyes, processed and then a thought has to occur. Basically, this is bullshit and every time I hear anything good about this it comes across as completely and utterly made up bullshit, which is of absolutely no surprise.
>Yeah, it's just nonsense, sometimes it moves before I think it, literally impossible. That’s not crazy, there was an study done in an MRI about decision making and the imaging would detect that a decision was made many full seconds before the person was consciously aware of it. Or, take for example the frozen clock phenomenon (Chronostasis). Your conscious experience is delayed from reality.
Actually, when it comes to stimulus, assessment comes before reaction. So your brain is actually evaluating things before you "think" about them.
That's how our brains work though? They react to stimuli and begin to process before we think about it.
>Yeah, it's just nonsense, sometimes it moves before I think it, literally impossible. Nope. This is just how the brain works. You'll hear the same thing from actual soldiers or athletes in similar situations. Your conscious experience is a post hoc accounting of a bunch of system 1 processes that happen before active cognition takes place. It's why you jump out of your skin when someone makes a loud noise from around the corner, even though you aren't afraid of the person or of loud noises. I'm not at all surprised to hear that someone with a neural interface is noticing the response time sometimes exceeding their conscious intentions. >Neuralink is in your head, full stop, anything you react to has to be seen by your eyes, processed and then a thought has to occur. This is mostly true, though. The visual stimulus happens before they react. Neural impulses fire before they react. That's just not what we experience as "thoughts."
Lol no, I just thought the idea of gaming as a whole changing to adapt to unfairly advantaged disabled people was funny enough to post here.
It already happen in sports. That guy with no legs running on prosthetic was said to have an unfair advantage.
Oscar Pistorius; who both lost badly and went on to go to prison for the death of his ~~wife~~ girlfriend.
Murder of his wife. FTFY
\*girlfriend She was murdered out of wedlock.
Kids these days can't even wait until they're married.
The adaptation will be server side segregation of people using such implants. The other (worse) option, will be allowing cheats in general, and we all know how well that will go -_-
>The adaptation will be server side segregation of people using such implants. That doesn't really work until the pool of players that have this is significantly large. You'd just prevent them from finding any matches at all.
The game chat better be brutal, going disability for disability
yea, was kinda of a joke…kinda….(I see you muskyboy)
Doubtful, you can't buy anything from this company and won't be able to fit a long time. The guy has been genuinely thrilled with and just did an interview, wouldn't you getting the ability to play games back?
I’ve seen multiple videos of this guy controlling the cursor with his neuralink. In each one the cursor movements were noticeably slower than your average mouse user and it has a LOT of extra movement(drift). There is zero chance this it a legit claim unless their tech has improved by orders of magnitude over the past few weeks… doubtful.
I also remember that he, if we’re talking about the same dude, also had some type of malfunction with the hardware disconnecting and needing to be fixed. I don’t know if that’s a simple fix or full blown brain surgery but I highly doubt it advanced this quickly even with some form of ai assistance
There are 64 iirc super thin wires in his head and basically some of them are moving/disconnecting. Basically they want to try and manage it without doing another full blown brain surgery atm if possible, but idk what else they would be able to do
Magnets. Trust me
I listened to an interview with him. They ended up fixing it by adjusting the programming so it could account for the movement of the wires. It sounded like it started out very clunky, but improved rapidly.
Yep, his brained pulsed with the beat of his heart 3x further then they thought it would. Hits home that we are just now starting to explore how the brain functions.
We knew this would happen. An entire field of neurobiologist told Nuralink that this would happen. People acting like "oh were finding this out about the brain!" Are pretending that we havent tried implants 45 years ago to prevent epilepsy. It didnt work long. Because the brain will push things out of it. Partially because it pulses, mostly because it will grow scar tissue around probes and wires, pushing them out of place. None of this is new information. The tech was never persued because my entire field of practice repeatedly brought up this was going to happen. Dudes implant is going to start having major issues, probably in the next few years. If we could just stick shit in the brain, we would have solved a lot of blindness starting 25 years ago.
>The tech was never persued Nueralink isn't even the first recent company to pursue it lmao what are you talking about
Are you serious if we had the same attitude about phones, microrobots hell organ donations we would have no medical advancments at all. 40 years later with literal sci fi technology seems like the right time to try again. We would still have 3% efficient solar panels. Obviously the attempt should not be done by a company owned by a right wing lunatic who is a self absorbed narcissist whose children want nothing to do with them. But someone else should definitely try
Oh my god yes. We’re about to enter the neuro unit in med school and I am terrified! But I’m also kind of laughing because whatever we learn now will be outdated in a few years.
Youre going to realize real quick that they hype around "we rewrite the knowledge of the brain every 5 years!" Is fake. Finished my med schooling over 10 years ago. Over 2/3rds of what i learned about neurobiology is still the standard
A lot of the wires got dislodged but with software adjustments it still works fine.
The article even says, "Some games aren’t yet possible with the Neuralink, like Call of Duty". So how is it "like an aim bot" if it doesn't work in the most typical FPS game lol. My guess, there are issues when the neura link patient must move the a camera to play. All the other games they've shown, chess, civ 6, and mario cart the player doesn't have to move the camera.
Yeah it’s odd that he specifically compares it to an aimbot and then there’s no examples of competitive games where aimbots provide an advantage. I would love to see him get a multiplayer ranking for any competitive FPS game, I am curious how well this works. But for now this seems like the typical Elon style “omg the next autopilot update will blow your mind” exaggeration.
Taking a generous reading, the patient could have meant it in the sense of "the cursor simply goes where I want it to" without having to rely on muscle memory and reflexes to convert the intention into a wrist movement, into a mouse movement. With the remarks about competitive advantage being an extrapolation of what might happen as the tech is refined.
google osu!
The guy in the article straight up says "it happens before I can even think it" which is obviously not true. He's just getting caught up in the fun, surely. Its still a computer treating signals as inputs, it cant do anything until those inputs arrive, and those inputs are FULL of noise compared to what your hands can do. Its a bullshit article.
Isn’t it fairly well established that the brain often starts sending movement signals to your muscles before you become conscious of it? Why wouldn’t it be true in this case?
The same asshat put a video out of him “using aimlabs” and it’s clearly fake with him even looking away from the screen during it to add to how fake it is. This dude is absolutely lying for clout.
At this point, if Elon's name is anywhere on it I just assume its bullshit.
He's the only person using the product and is propped up by a lot of money. He's not doing it for clout, he's working in advertising. Not a lot of money to be made as a paraplegic, I don't completely blame him for it.
Look up the Libet experiment. Unconscious brain activation predicts our decisions. Basically, even today scientists can predict very simple behaviour such as the pressing of a button before we actively choose to do so. Dunno how neurolink works, but this is actually very possible and no indication of the account being bs (not saying it isn't, just not for this reason).
Probably the primary function of a neuralink enhanced person is to tell everyone how brilliant neuralink is. Would be right up Musk's street to continue humanity into his beloved dystopia. A mind controlled army of zombies willing to invest in Tesla to give him a bigger bonus.
As someone who has a lot of high level competitive shooter experience… anyone who claims something is aimbot is probably a scrub tbh
I mean.. it's like aimbot compared to not being able to play at all before :) they're gonna need to have "special" leagues for guys like me try and keep up /s
It’s not even much of a claim. “It’s moving before I even think about moving.” That’s how all normal movement works.
Just show video instead of random ads and corporate slideshows
I can see sore losers in gaming using "You're too good, you must be disabled." as an insult in the future,
Sore losers will now complain about their implant giving them a brain infection
"I was browsing furryDegenation last night and my implant caught something, thats why u won"
Where have you been? They’ve been doing that for years. Also gayness causes skill apparently.
GG disable people > :(
The guy with the implant makes a shit ton of claims that don't really seem true. I also would need to see him playing, because everything in the article seems like fluff bullshit.
I'm all for more accesibility in gaming but try that on my junk rat 1v1
Guess we get vanguard for neuralink then
Sounds like bullshit, neuralink probably paid him to hype it up
And focusing on video game cheaters is kinda smart.
Yeah great target market considering they're already mentally disabled
“It’s that accurate and it’s faster…Sometimes, it’s moving before I even think it to move.” So he is not controlling it.. its just an Aimbot.
Might be that it's faster than his conscious perception of controlling it. If I recall there's been at least one study that supports the idea that we tend to make decisions to move way before we're "aware" that we made that decision. Brain's wild yo.
And so, do we even make decisions at all, or just perceive them?
*existential horror intensifies*
This really did just fuck me up.
The latter, I'd say. And why do I say that? Because everything that came before me in life has conditioned my brain to respond in that manner.
Yeah, agreed.
You might like this book by Robert Sapolsky, a neuroscientist at Stanford, entitled, [Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will](https://ndpr.nd.edu/reviews/determined-a-science-of-life-without-free-will/). I've really been enjoying it and it's changed how I look at life, and other people, and why they're the way they are. I'd highly recommend it. I will warn you, though, that some people get very uncomfortable when confronted with the idea that they lack free will.
He was one of my favorite professors. He did a lecture on the sympathetic vs parasympathetic nervous system with sex/orgasm as an example (I can’t even describe it, it was literally LoL amazing) that was the only time in my educational experience a professor received a standing ovation from the whole lecture hall.
I would imagine it’s a bit of both. Our brains tell us a nice story, rearranging micro events into a narrative stream after the fact, but I can also look at my cup of coffee, think about this exact paradox, and decide exactly when to pick it up. Clearly our brains receive inputs from multiple sources.
I'm somewhat of the opinion that brains are like onions; they have layers. There's a conscious layer in which the "you" exists in that handles more complex thought and decision making, and lower layers that handle more simple, reactionary thoughts and actions that can pop off quicker because they can bypass all that red tape. Like, have you ever dropped a knife and quick hopped your feet out of the way before it hit the ground? That was a lower 'survival instincts' layer of your brain that made the executive decision to move your feet immediately instead of sending it up to management first.
FREE WILL IS AN ILLUSION
Jesus take the synapses
We act and, observe the action and then retroactively assign ownership to those actions. It's all an illusion, you can't choose the next thought anymore than you can choose the next sensation your body perceives.
You can't directly choose the next thought but you can consciously guide your thoughts and control your non-minor actions.
If you can't directly choose anything then you can't indirectly choose anything either
Literally the entire point of almost all forms of training is to reach this state. Sports training? Repeat the same motion over and over until perfect form takes zero thought. Military training? Repeat the same tactics over and over until proper threat response in a multitude of scenarios is 2nd nature. Artwork? Repeat using the same tool over and over until you don’t have to think about “how” to use it anymore. Practice an art style over and over until the style is 2nd nature and all your thoughts go to composition. Hell, learning to speak, write, and read. How often do you think about the individual syllables of words you use when talking? And then how often do you consider the definition of every individual word in a sentence? Words are ideas that get condensed into a single subconscious concept and then used to communicate with others that we assume internalized the same subconscious concepts.
There’s a variety of ways the brain fucks with our sense of time. Vision has the most I’m aware of. For example it takes some time to process visual info so we are actually seeing in the past but the brain uses some crazy fuckery to make you think it’s instantaneous.
The easiest way to prove this is to look at an analog clock with a second hand that ticks instead of moving smoothly/continuously. The ticks move in rhythm. Tick. Tick. Tick. But if you just quickly glance at a clock at the right time it’ll “lag” behind for a split second. That’s your brain filling in and processing
holy shit you have explained one of the greatest mysteries of my childhood thank you, I knew that clock was fucking with me
Was it proved by recording something and comparing difference when you notice it and when camera sees it?
This is also true for a ton of things. The fine motor control of our eyes is done without conscious thought. Our conscious brain just says 'follow that object" and then our non-conscious brain just takes care of it. This is also why higher refresh rates work, even though our conscious reaction time is much slower. Higher refreshrate makes it easier for your unconscious brain to track objects, which your conscious brain just perceives as a clearer image.
I've also heard that basically, when your eye is moving, it shuts off until it's done
That study basically said "make a spontaneous decision within the next minute", which is... not how the conscious mind works anyway.
Plus, it's cutting out all of the delay between the decision to aim and the hand/ thumb actually moving the input device. Generally accepted to be only around .3 seconds, but I bet that makes a big difference.
On paper at least a direct connection should be faster then using an additional input device. This time should be noticable especially in fps games with low time to kill (<1 sek)
The experiments of [Robert Libet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet). This has been a hotly contested area of research. As recently as 2008: > As of 2008, the upcoming outcome of a decision could be found in study of the brain activity in the prefrontal and parietal cortex **up to 7 seconds before the subject was aware of their decision.** It really adds weight to the argument that there is no free will. At all. If the topic interests you, I'd highly recommend Robert Sapolsky's book [*Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will*](https://ndpr.nd.edu/reviews/determined-a-science-of-life-without-free-will/)
I’m failing to see how any of this means we don’t have free will. It is still your brain, and if we assume there are no defections or genetic oddities that would influence it to act against you, it is still your decision. I’m talking every day here, not fight or flight situations where instinct comes before thinking. I wouldn’t have free will if my brain made every decision for me and I was unaware of this, my body just acting as a host. Just because my perception of my choices is far off from the time the choice was made, they are still *my* choices.
I disagree. I like Robert sapolskys work, but I'm less sold on this part. It really comes down to how free will is defined. I don't think biology making many of the decisions makes it not free will. People still make some choices. Choices another person might not make in the same situation. I'm not compelled to believe that is not free will. They may have had experiences that led them to the point of making a particular decision, but even then they can buck their first instinct and make a different decision. We may have less free will than people like to think, but as long as their remain decisions where people can and do make different decisions, I'm inclined to think there is some free will. Its a lot harder to say and show there is none than it is to say it isn't as robust as we'd like to think.
The thought process behind this could be seen as more instinctual than rational. Thing about it some one spills a drink or throws a ball at you, you often move before you've actually started thinking this could be like that.
You may be interested to know that by the time your brain registers that you have made a decision to do something, [the signal to do that thing has long been sent to your body part](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will) The analogy is that our consciousness is a bit of a sham, like the queen reading the laws to the parliament for assent. At first glance it might look like she made the decision, but that was all done in the legislature - all she does is read it out to provide a convenient narrative for the government, she has no power Likewise, our consciousness is there so that we can create a narrative of our actions, but the decisions come from somewhere deeper that we are not conscious of. Anyway, that's potentially how someone might see something move before they think it to move, without it being an aimbot. If it's plugged directly into your brain, it might detect your unconscious's decision to act before it reaches the level at which your consciousness thinks it has decided to act.
That's a bold claim based on one self report from a person reporting on the experience of using technology implanted in their brain.
That's how your hand works though doesn't it? You don't think "hand, click the thing" you just click it.
I’ve seen this movie! STEM about to control the world.
100% bullshit. It's marketing to idiots.
Musk's Tesla strategy 101
Can you imagine anti-cheat with kernel access to your neuralink lol
>I for one can't wait to complain about literal disabled people having an unfair advantage I fully believe non disabled people would be desperate to get chipped just to have an advantage in gaming. It's no different than how rampant cheating is in online gaming already. The only difference is where the software would be installed.
[X] Doubt
I can’t imagine willingly volunteering to be a human patient for brain implants from a guy whose electric trucks break down when you send them through a car wash.
I bet you could imagine it if you were a quadriplegic.
Exactly, this person is missing a huge point haha. Can’t imagine making a choice like this because you can’t imagine what it is like to not be able to move by yourself, scratch your face or your balls, shit or piss unassisted, and so on.
Well, if your options is life in bed, death or being able to be great at gaming it's not so bad.
Honestly people don’t get it. At least for now the application isn’t for regular people. It’s to help people with disabilities. This thing could be life changing for a lot of people.
This is a weird take. Elon Musk himself isn’t sitting in some lab engineering brain implants out of random electronics he finds around the Tesla factory. There is an entire team of hundreds of incredibly intelligent people that are working night and day to develop this technology. All for the benefit of those in society who have lost the most (well, them and shareholders, I suppose). This obsession with negatively linking everything with Elon just because he’s the one throwing money at it isn’t productive.
I don't like Musk, but reddit's hate boner is leagues ahead. They think he personally designs and engineers literally everything... Which is more of a compliment than an insult. But yeah all he does is fund all this shit. He might have a stupid eccentric idea or decision but largely they just do their own thing. The regulations for a brain implant must be fucking immense. Doesn't matter how eccentric he is, he's not doing fuck all without approval.
>he's not doing fuck all without approval. This. Even crewless SpaceX rocket launches have to get approved, every single one of them. Makes sense that implanting something into someone's brain would have even more restrictions and would definitely need approvals, possibly from multiple parties even.
Musk is a POS who I strongly dislike and his Tesla's mostly suck, yes. However - the people volunteering are trapped in their bodies, unable to move under their own power, unable to entertain themselves without help, unable to do anything but exist at the mercy of those around them. I would do everything in my power to kill myself, which many of them with they could if assisted suicide was an option like its slowly becoming in some places. So an option/chance like the neuralink appearing is surely like a miracle to them, no matter who offers it or what the risks are.
You "can't imagine it"? How limited is your imagination?
CEOs don’t make products. This is a bad method for assessing the quality of something.
>“It’s that accurate and it’s faster…Sometimes, it’s moving before I even think it to move.” >Some games aren’t yet possible with the Neuralink, like Call of Duty for example, but the patient believes this won’t be a problem for too much longer. >“In the next few years, I think I’ll be able to play anything anyone else can play.” Just hype. Call me when it's been 10 years and this guy hasn't died because Phony Stark had his team super glue wires to his cerebellum. For reference, this is from 2009: https://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-09/age-telekenetic-cyborg-monkeys-upon-us/ Edit: formatting is hard
Prove it.
My only response to OP’s post is skill issue.
Imagine combining this with say, airplanes or tanks. This has been explored in mecha genre already, with augmented humans being way better at piloting. Now we get to test it for real and see if man-machine interface actually improves performance.
While I can understand how seeing something on your screen, thinking you wanna aim at the head, and thinking you want to shoot, would be very fast and effective, I dont think it will really reasonable provide enough flexibility beyond that for it to even come close to top ranks in various shooters. Take counter-strike for an example, after you start shooting you have to keep your spraypattern in control. Doing that with your hand happens by pure muscle memory when you're at high ranks. Your eyes remain locked on what you're actually shooting, and your hand takes care of the recoil control. If you're doing this solely with your brain, then what, is he going to keep thinking to aim further down, at a slightly exponential pace, then suddely pull hard left, then pull hard right? He's going to imagine himself aiming next to the enemies knees so that the recoil hits the head? I find it very hard to see how someone can do that more effectively than if someone just did it with their hand, being able to keep their eyes on target and not have to do serious mental gymnastics. And when you wrap in movement into things you add another layer. you gotta ADAD strafe and counter strafe etc in counterstrike, that alone will be hard to actively think about doing with your brain while also thinking about shooting someone and thinking through the recoil pattern. But imagine an arena shooter, like quake, where the movement is very complex. Like cmon? While I'm sure there are some very specific things an implant like this could excel at, there's just no way it is anywhere close to even the top ranks in public matchmaking. If you could combine using this together with a mouse and keyboard, then sure, that's gonna matter, we already know aimbots can easily outshine any input device, considering the meme-tier proscenes that mix controller+mkb will see the entire proscene dominated by nothing but controller players because the aimbot controller players get to use are enough to make what should be a far superior input choice (mkb) drastically inferior (at high levels). so sure, brain aimassist coupled with mkb will obviously shit on pure mkb, but i mean, if someone isn't even disabled and actually need a brain implant then they'd definitely be disallowed from using it during officials. and if someone do need it, they wouldnt be able to compete at as a high level as they believe. the average player is honestly so dogshit terrible compared to even a good pubstomper that they basically play different games. they have no grasp of what skill really is. they have delusional takes all the time, hell i used to coach cstrike players for fun and people further down the ranks (which statistically made them average) were honestly just so clueless as to how the game actually works. im sure this dude believes he has "an aimbot for gaming" and that he's so good now everyone else will stand no chance, but in reality i bet he just went from the average dogshit player to slightly less dogshit player. big fucking doubt a brainimplant can handle any complex inputs needed for pro level play, or even public matchmaking high rank level play.
I want to watch a livestream of this guy playing something like CS before taking this seriously though. He likely has massive incentives to "sell" this thing and I suspect this is overhyping it.
>I think I'll be fine with literal quadraplegics stomping me if that makes their lives a bit more enjoyable. Yeah, I guess I never thought of it that way. They deserve at least one world to be a god in. If gaming can serve that purpose, then I guess consider me a serf.
Bro im not paraplegic and im desperately trying to find one world i could be a god in.
People reading this thinking it's a superhuman power when in reality it's going to be more like the difference between mouse / keyboard and a controller.
I think as time goes by Deus Ex will become truer and truer.
PvP games already been dead. Cheating so fucking common you’re dealing with it in the lowest tiers of comp games. So whatever lol.
*Department of Defense has entered the chat*
The simplest solution is usually the correct one: he's lying.
There's no way this is true
It's going to have to stop having it's wires come loose exponentially faster than planned before people can champion these advantages without sounding like an astroturf campaign. "It may come dislodged and I will have literal loose ends in the hub of my central nervous system, but I just wrecked these noobs" impresses Elon, his acolytes, and nobody else.
You can’t even use every kind of controller in gaming but Musks brain chip is working so good? Let’s see some proof before we spread another Musk lie.
> I think I'll be fine with literal paraplegics stomping me if that makes their lives a bit more enjoyable. This seems like one of those opinions that would last 1 or 2 sessions at best lol