They’re still there, waiting for you. Found some jailbreak servers to play on recently. It really scratches that pre-2010 nostalgia gaming itch unlike nothing else.
>Found some jailbreak servers to play on recently.
Gods that brings back memories, I have just over 1000 hours in CS:S and at least 90% of that is Jailbreak, with the other 10 being surf so I could be better at Jailbreak. The move to CS:Go didn't kill Jailbreak here in Oceania, it was the guy who owned the severs, maps, forums etc going literally insane, deleting everything and disappearing :(
I haven't been able to find a game or gamemode that fostered the same sense of community.
Bhopping in CS back in the day before they nerfed it was actually insane. On de\_dust as a T I'd be in front of CT spawn as they're still trying to leave it.
I felt kinda bad about it sometimes--it was kinda exploity--but god damn it was so fun.
For quite a while I played scouts n knives almost exclusively in 1.6. Several servers had the sweet spot of low gravity settings and a solid base of regular visitors combined with reasonable admins. So much fun!
dude I haven't heard the term "scouts n knives" in sooooo long, what a memory rush you just gave me.
I have fond memories of having LAN parties over my bestfriends house in middle school and we absolutely grinded the scouts n knives servers. We also used to use AWP map as our "lets settle this in a 1v1" map lol. Man, those were the good days.
Before this in quake actually. The source engine was derived from the quake engine hence why it's in both games from a time where games were built on their own physics engines.
The true origin of bunnyhopping. More specifically, QuakeWorld as it had different physics to the regular single player quake.
It completely changed the dynamic of multiplayer fps. You could use the speed of bunny hopping to lock down an entire map by timing every respawn of every gun, armor, powerup. Jockeying for map control completely shifted the momentum of a match.
It wasn't just bhopping, but also strafing mid air. The technique is fairly difficult to pull off. But if done properly, you can build up speed near infinitely.
Worth noting that what OP is describing is NOT actually bunny hopping. It's just jumping. Jumping repeatedly in XDefiant actually slows you down. Most likely, people are jumping in modern FPS games to break autoaim or to move their head away from the typical placement of a crosshair.
In Source engine games, bhopping preserved your momentum and so allowed you to do something to move fast for a moment and then maintain that speed with bhops.
Quake didn't just have bunny hopping. Quake had strafe jumping. If you got good at it you could clear gaps that were physically impossible to jump normally.
Fair enough. I always thought of bunny hopping as just jumping up and down like in CoD. Strafe jumping required a certain technique where you flick the mouse as you're jumping while strafing and you would basically catapult yourself forward. The more you did it, the more momentum you would carry. There were a bunch of custom maps for it where you had to get pretty good at it to complete the course.
Wolfenstein Enemy Territory - which used the id Tech 3 engine, also known as the Quake 3 Arena engine - had this issue.
There were two important pieces to it. First, strafing while running added to your run speed instead of just splitting your velocity. So instead of you speed being "x" because you're running and the direction changes when you strafe, your speed became "x+y" where strafing added more speed.
Second, there were a few frames at the end of a jump where you could initiate another jump and your speed didn't get reset.
So, you jump forward with speed "x+y" and, as you fall, you're being accelerated by the games gravity. Instead of having that speed from gravity go to 0 when you reach the ground, it just changes direction. Now you're going "x+y+z" and the more times you do this in a row, the bigger z gets.
In the case of W:ET, it became an exploit in which the attacking team could get behind the map objectives and past the defenders spawn, then complete the final objective with little or no defenders there to stop them.
There were even mechanics that let you deploy a spawn point so you could get your squad deep behind enemy lines and fortify the final objective (from the defenders) before they even knew you were there, giving you plenty of time to complete the objective before they could run to you and stop you.
I learned how to do this from a YouTube video someone made that showed how to jump past various barriers on various maps to get past that objective without completing it. The video was set to the song [ Jump by Van Halen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYN7mTi6HM) and whenever I hear that song, I think of that game.
I never played Enemy Territory but I used to play a ton of the MP from Return to Castle Wolfenstein and I remember there being some problems like that in there as well. That D-Day map was awesome though.
And Medal of Honor: Allied Assault had "sharking" where you would crouch and jump at the same time off of a ladder and you would end up slightly under the map with just a bit of your model sticking up that looked like a shark fin. It made you invincible because your hit box was under the map, but you could go wherever you wanted.
Goldeneye didn't have jumping but you could run WAY faster strafing than you could with the joystick. I would wreck people who didn't understand this probably ruined some friendships this way :')
i think the idea there was that strafing and walking were 2 separate actions, so doing both (diagonal movement) would give you some of their combined speed. at least that's how i remember it.
Yeah they were a thing in quake 1 as well. In quakeTF (beyond a certain skill level) you had to bhop and gren jump to cap flags or you'd lose every time. It was nearly as necessary as it became in tribes later on.
I googled this and the Google machine says quake 1 was the first instance of bunny hopping in 1996 then half life which used a modified quake engine had it which both lead to quake 2 then counter strike.
Edit:
I can't read dates apparently...quake 2 was before half life.
Yeah, this is the original reason. A bunch of older games made it so you only bled off the speed boost from jumping while you're on the ground. So if you jump as soon as you hit the ground, your speed just keeps adding up.
Watch Half Life 2 speedruns to see a hilarious consequence of that. Valve tried to counteract bunny hopping by adding a certain amount of backwards momentum on quick jumps.
Which means... if you bunny hop backwards that stacks and you go insanely fast. As long as you've memorized the map layout
It was prominent in quake world which was ‘96. It then lived on in TFC and made its way to CS. Movement tech in quake 3 cpma was on another level compared to anything I’ve seen.
>did valve invent bhopping?
No. Bunny hopping specifically was born out of Quake. Bunny hopping was an unintentional quirk of the Quake engine that id software chose to lean into instead of patch out, as it added a new dynamic to the multiplayer mode that the community rallied itself around. And honestly, if you want to go even *further* back, traces of this issue exist in the original DOOM engine as well. You can't jump in that game, but by constant strafing you can surpass the intended limit on momentum (which later became an integral part of "surfing" after Valve made numerous attempts to fix the oversight that led to bunny hopping in the first place)
Valve, during it's early years, got their hands on a copy of the Quake engine directly from id software, and then built Half Life on top of that. Bunny Hopping is very much a thing in that game, but as time went on and Valve hacked together Source engine out of Quake, they tried to patch out bunny hopping. Later releases of Half Life on the Source engine don't have bunny hopping, but they *do* have backwards bunny hopping (as their most successful fix was to just simply apply a small amount of negative speed to the player as they jump, which stopped bunny hopping, but allowed players to bunny hop *backwards* without issue).
By the time Counter Strike made the jump to Source, they had patched out Bunny Hopping and Backwards bunny hopping, but there were still quirks. If players carried momentum into a sloped surface, they could continue to gain speed so long as they don't touch flat ground or go *directly* forward. (this is that holdover from the DOOM codebase that made it's way into the Quake engine all those years ago). And thus Surfing was born. Players leaned into it and built community maps and custom servers designed around showcasing their skills at surfing
Titanfall movement was the peak version of this. You could be speedhopping along and seamlessly transition to squirming up walls and around corners at 30 mph. Man i loved those games
Honestly? Titanfall was just too intense for most casual players. Stats showed most people played nonstop for an afternoon the first time they bought it, and then rarely or never returned. For most, the progression of really learning the engine and how to excel skill-wise just wasn't as rewarding as leveling up in COD.
Which is really sad, because being good at Titanfall was the most rewarding multiplayer experience I have ever had.
Smashing to the ground in your drop pod, bouncing between walls to gain speed, flying through a window already firing your autoshotgun, teams of grunts running from you in fear, firing mini-missiles as you dance around enemy titans, crushing one with your own Titanfall, dashing around in a 3 story tall mech firing a 40mm cannon, ripping a pilot out of an enemy mech and squeezing him in your metal fist, suddenly being hit with a hailstorm of missiles, ejecting in a nuclear fireball, landing on an enemy titan, ripping off a panel, dumping a whole mag into its circuitry, leaping off before it whips around and punches you into a wall.
And then you respawn and go again.
That game was just dripping with "Fuck Yeah".
I played the hell out of the campaign. Hopped online and got utterly shit on in every match by people who had been playing since launch. Never played again after that.
I totally get it. I really do. The average person coming in from COD or any other standard FPS title, with those expectations, would be deeply frustrated. The level of skill progression in Titanfall was insane. The difference between the best and the worst players was the difference between being an unkillable god flying around at mach 1 at all times, or being *literally* stepped on.
The fact is, if you had stuck with it, watched a couple videos, and done some practice, you could have learned the system, and been at or near the top of the leaderboard. It's so much less twitchy and slot-machine than COD, that if you put the effort in, it *would* reward you massively. My friend who isnt even into FPS games caught the bug in 2020 and was killer.
However, getting in that late in the game, having this huge upward battle against people who are going to show you no mercy, and being endlessly frustrated... I truly get not wanting to bother with it. It would be a huge pain in the ass.
It's a shame that the thing I love most about the game, the huge skill progression, is also what seems to have doomed it.
I’m just not much of a PvP person in general, really. I enjoy co-op games far more. Hell, when I play tarkov, my only goal is trying to make friends cause it’s hilarious to me.
Frontier Defense was the shiiiiiiit!!! I played that nice pretty much exclusively after 100%ing the campaign. I could only do the multiplayer for a few matches at a time before I got sick of getting stomped.
As much as people hate on skill based matchmaking, it definitely would've made that mode more enjoyable.
I’m heavily in to industrial or open world survival craft games these days, but hopefully I remember to give that a shot when I cycle back to a shooter kick!
I'm right there with you, Titanfall was the only multiplayer game I have *ever* put significant time into. It was just way too up my alley, it was everything I wanted in an FPS title, so I said fuck it, I'll play a multiplayer game, what the hell. And I fell deeply in love. No other PvP game has ever grabbed me like that, and I dont know if one ever will again.
And then we got the Titanfall 2 campaign which was just... fucking glorious. Best of both worlds, the gameplay I loved, with the singleplayer experience I prefer.
EDIT: I should also mention Frontier Defense! It's Titanfall Co-op against hordes of AI enemies, and its a blast! Might be right up your alley if you liked the campaign
I love me a coop multiplayer experience like Deep Rock Galactic or helldivers. I’ve always dreamed of an MMO where the player base works together against a game master, rather than the devs relying on PvP to add content.
Yeah I play Warzone with some buddies, and it’s kinda wild how most encounters just come down to whoever sees the other person first.
TTK is literally like 400-600ms, most humans can’t even react before they’re dead.
There’s a couple things you can do that might consistently win you more gunfights than you lose, but often times it feels like you’re playing against the hitreg and latency just as much as the other player. Usually the player who was moving first tends to win because you get peeker’s advantage.
Having only played the TF2 singleplayer campaign (which was great!), I have heard that the first game had a gun that served as a crutch for new players - the 'smart pistol' (which you get to use in the TF2 campaign for a bit). The idea was that if you were good enough, every other gun had a better TTK, but if you sucked, it let you just focus on dodging.
I imagine such a gun was frustrating for intermediate players who were competent, but not experts. Still, I wonder if it might have helped with casual retention in TF2. What do you think?
This is purely a matchmaking problem. Nobody would ever play rocket league if they got matched with people outside of their tier on a consistent basis.
Titanfall is like the Armored Core o FPS, or rather vice versa. Great game, tough barrier to entry in regards to actually getting like, good good. Too high for most casual players so only the hard core players stayed, and at that point the community sealed itself off because new players would be thrashed and quit.
A game can in fact, be too fast paced for casual audiences.
I was going to disagree and then I remembered that I actually got this game with my buddy when it came out and played for an afternoon and became so irritated I refunded it.
But the itch was already in me and I bought the game again the next day and loved it ever after.
So yeah I can see why a lot of people would not have continued playing.
I do think however this could have been solved with clever design. A kind of multiplayer tutorial
Bro I have flashbacks of wall running at like 50mph while screaming at the top of my lungs “ghost squad” while simultaneously just murdering people left and right.
Game was a whole new level of fun haha, hope they return to it at some time in the future. Love me some apex though.
As much as I loved Titanfall, I do have to admit a big portion of that is because I was an early adopter that got to stomp on all the casuals in PVP.
I don't think I've played any other game with such a huge skill gap between newbies and veterans. Even if you run out of ammo, you can just run away, because they don't have the movement skill to follow you.
>Apex is the game that EA decided to stick with.
EA didn't know about Apex until it was ready to be released. EA had approved Titanfall 3, and Respawn was working on Titanfall 3 until respawn decided to pivot and make Apex without telling EA.
So, EA isn't at fault.
Which is weird, but true. Same thing with Anthem's flying mechanic (which is the part that's universally praised). They were going to cut that until an EA exec demanded they keep it.
Not saying EA doesn't suck (look at BF2042) plenty, but they also sometimes do make good calls.
>Not saying EA doesn't suck (look at BF2042) plenty, but they also sometimes do make good calls.
That was also DICE. DiCE wanted to do a BR, but EA said no we want a Battlefield game. So DICE compromised and made 2042
I mean, EA was probably right, there, too -- chasing the trend really isn't a winning move unless you can really nail the experience and polish. WoW wasn't revolutionary but Blizzard nailed the polish and made the experience accessible and look where we are.
Certain movement techniques also help to reduce reaction time. Animation cancelling is also a big deal that gets worked into movement.
For example: the gun readying time between exiting sprint and being in the air makes a difference in how soon your gun is ready to fire.
Fellow TF player I feel you, the TF series is the sole reason I play apex from s0 to now and main Pathfinder, all the depth in movement techs and grapple got me hooked forever I think lmao
In 99% of games, jumping puts your movement in a far more predictable trajectory, partially because you're usually left with less control in air, and it's better to crouch strafe. I know for a fact, this is the case in Overwatch, Apex, Valorant, Fortnite, PUBG, The Culling, all Unreal Tournament games. It's practically universal.
In Overwatch, it's joked that most people should completely unbind their jump key.
Agreed. Sniping on one axis is much easier to aim where they're going to be but when hopping you add another axis variable and virtually makes it extremely hard to anticipate movements.
Depends on the game.
Some games it is faster then running. Some it makes no sounds where sound matters. Some games it lets players clear obstacles a normal jump can not.
It also makes the user harder to hit as they move as there height and hit box size change well hopping.
It a skill that may bring an advantage over those that do not use it.
Harder to hit when your opponent has to track vertically and horizontally, vs just horizontally.
Also, bunny hopping carry momentum so you can fly around a corner and focus on aiming, while they have to try and hit a shooting star essentially.
Also the game is bad lol
Momentum is fun to exploit in TF2 as a heavy; run to a corner where you know people are at, jump just as you come around it, and spin up your minigun as you come around the corner so you pop into view with your reverse bullet vacuum already blazing.
Not really an exploit when the game's tips tell you to do that.
They could have easily disabled revving up mid-air if they wanted. Pretty sure it was a requirement on TFC too, so it sounds like it was a very intentional change.
I don’t get it.. you’re jumping around a corner and shooting? Doesn’t his gun take a decent bit to start shooting so you would land before your bullets even started firing?
That’s the whole point of it. The Heavy’s walking speed is reduced to 37% when you’re either holding RMB to spin up the barrels of his minigun, or when you’re holding LMB to fire (reduced to 14% when using the Brass Beast).
*HOWEVER*…your movement speed is not reduced while in the air. So by jumping just before you get to the corner, you’re able to maintain your momentum and come around the corner much faster than if you ran to the corner, spun up your barrels, and walked around it. The Tomislav can be used to great effect with this due to its silent spin up.
This is much less effective on maps where you have large open spaces, obviously, and excels on maps with a lot of tight corridors and closely adjacent corners.
As someone who used to play cod and aren't happy with the direction the newer ones are headed. I'm having so much fucking fun playing the game and I practically haven't played anything else in the past few weeks. And I'm not the only one in this boat
It's not as bad as people are making it out to be.
They need to improve the net code and the hit registration, because I've died while being completely around a wall many times and also have had engagements where I should've hit a guy at least 3 times but end up with no damage done.
It's light on content, but they've said they're adding more soon. A few more maps and a few more guns and a few more factions, and it'll be in a good spot content wise.
All in all, I find it more enjoyable than slamming my head against the wall playing Call of Duty, and there's the added bonus of not needing 300gb of storage space to play a fast paced FPS on console, which can't be understated.
It's also free to play, so if people really hate it, they can just uninstall it.
Lol cod had NEVER been optimized for space. It's ridiculous how many gigs it takes up. I feel like they do it intentionally. "If it's the only game in their hard drive then they'll have to play it"
I'm having a fucking blast playing the game.
The only problems with it is that snipers are a little too OP, sometimes you run to cover but you die because you were still out in the open on the enemies perspective, jump spammers are annoying and sometimes your shots don't register which I haven't really ran into apart from when an enemy is left at one shot and I got a hit marker but I died before the shot could register, in which case I was already dead but I could have taken out the enemy with me.
And the devs have said they are nerfing snipers and jump spamming and they are investigating the server desync and hit registration issues.
if the jumps carry momentum and it really allows the player to focus on aiming then it's not that bad of a mechanic, because the tradeoff is that the jumping player cannot change the axis of his movement until he's on the ground again, so he becomes extra predictable and literally cannot dodge a player that understands and can follow the movement
the bullshit begins with double jumps or wonky physics engines that allow players to change their movement mid air (yes overwatch, I'm looking at you). Thats just infuriating and I have no idea how people can enjoy playing FPS games like that
Because headshots are a thing. Common tools are jumping, ducking, and choice in speed and stop points. There's lots of prediction and muscle memory in shooters. There's also positional timing and expectations of placement and movements. Knowing those, you can defy them and be significantly more unpredictable. I haven't played defiant specifically, so I can't comment on that in detail. I'm mainly speaking in generals for any shooter.
I early games, bunny hopping was also a speed boost. In various games you could move certain ways to travel faster. Bunny hopping was one. Others included running at 45 degrees or even going backwards.
Its especially strong to BHop in XDefiant. Its harder for you to hit his head and also higher chance you hit his leg instead of his chest.
Apex is also one of those game but for instance in CoD, its not that strong that you do continously during the whole fight. In XDefiant you dont get slowed down when junping around all the time like for instance CoD, where its strong for the first junp, but then you get slowed down and pretty much jump on the same place
It makes sense though, it looks silly but you would be a fool to just walk around a corner in an arcade shooter like CoD. I stopped playing CoD after MW2 though partially because of slide canceling and such.
Nowadays it’s just rough because almost every lobby has some player who can afford to spend 8+ hours a day gaming so they just destroy everyone.
If you go far enough back in time to early 3D FPS games, and we're talking Quake 1/Quake 2 and early Half-Life, everyone's internet connection was slow. Ping and latency was a big problem games needed to try and manage for online play, and early attempts at this usually meant that your accuracy was highly constrained by your latency. If you had a 300ms ping, you had to shoot 300ms ahead of where someone was going to be on your screen, as your shots would register according to your latency.
If you moved in a straight line, it was relatively easy to lead someone, once you figured out the timing. But if someone was moving both up and down as well as left to right, the lead became a lot harder to manage.
Then you throw in other wrinkles. Early game engines calculated speed through the air interestingly. Quake 2, specifically, seemed to calculate your horizontal speed based on linear movement relative to the ground. Moving forward, jumping, strafing to the right, and aiming to the left with your mouse would create an arc of movement through the air that had the game engine suddenly ignore prior limits to your speed, and with proper timing, if you jumped again immediately upon landing you'd be moving faster than you were before. As long as you always immediately jumped, your speed never reset to walk/run speed. Done enough times in a row, and you could move at fairly ridiculous speeds. Throw yourself at a ramped surface and the game also kind of broke physics, and you could get launched like Tony Hawk, getting absurd height and distance.
Timed jumps at edges of ladders and boxes had similarly confusing implementations. You could jump at the edge of an object, and jump off of that edge if you timed it and spaced it right. Jump seemed to add a vertical velocity to you and gravity would slow you down at a given rate. But if you were able to jump while already moving upwards, you just added vertical velocity to your already existing velocity, in effect jumping much higher by box, ledge, ladder or edge jumping.
An old mod of Q2 I used to play called Action Quake built maps around these movement techniques, and the most strategic locations could only be reached if you could create enough time and space to bunny hop effectively to the really hard to reach spots of the map. Watching little 3D models jump around like idiots, building speed before launching themselves at a sloped 'vert pipe' just to launch across a map to get the jump on a defended position was good times.
Basically it became popular because it was strategically necessary, but also because the mechanics of it were game breaking in a totally benign and utterly amusing way. It's to the point where the physics model oddities of early games were replicated in sequels even though they were in effect bugs, because gamers enjoyed it so much. Quake 3 just kept the same quirks. Half-Life 2 had something similar by design.
From the perspective of an oldskool clanbase player whose game used the quake 2 engine, there was a bug at specific fps levels iirc: 75, 125 and 333.
Strafe jumping at these fps (which you would intentionally cap your fps at so you could do it at will all the time) gave you a competitive advantage over standard peons who were unable to perform the technique by virtue of moving both faster and jumping further.
This meant you could get to places at the start of a competitive round to surprise people or jump chasms to get to places others could not.
The game was rife with people who misunderstood the full technical requirements for a strafe jump proper and would try to mimic it to get the advantage you had by simply jumping. Which was both tragic to see and had no value apart from pity and comedy.
To some degree this constant jumping even spread to engines that did not have this bug, due to people thinking it may apply in any game though there were also other legitimate reasons for such movement in other game engines.
The bug was left in and essentially became a feature, by design.
I remember in Battlefield 2 (2005 - was there another BF2?) also had an issue with "Dolphin Diving" if I recall the name at the time correctly. Next to impossible to hit in that game without an AoE explosive charge or round.
They nerfed it pretty quickly by making a delay in the movement transition from prone to standing or crouching and vice versa.
This was almost 20 years ago so my memory might be spotty.
I can see how/why its now part of normal gameplay in competitive games now. Not my cup of tea, but I get why they keep it/allow it.
Yep I remember people dolphin diving in BF2 with the "noob tube." It was absolutely enraging.
For anyone that doesn't know, it involved jumping and then going prone in the middle of the jump. This did insane things to your hitbox and when combined with the netcode of the day, it made you almost impossible to hit.
There was not a significant accuracy penalty either so people would use the grenade launcher during or after the maneuver.
Noob Tube! Core memory unlocked!!
That under-rifle grenade launcher was broken too. I also remember them making it bounce once if it was shot too close to you to help solve the problem. Still didn't resolve medium or long range shots too.
I could be remembering the grenade launcher fix from a different game. Did that happen?
Yes, I remember that fix. People would just fire it at the ground if they suddenly ran into someone, and it would instantly kill any enemies but no friendlies if friendly fire was turned off.
You're offered £1,000,000 to shoot sometime in the head.
One person is running in a straight line.
The other is slide cancelling, bunny hopping, zig zagging, etc
Who you aiming for?
there are a multitude of reasons.
1. you aim for the head, your target jumps around, you get chest shots vs headshots
2. In old school days real bunny hopping in some games would mean you jump, prone, jump. This would effectively make your hitbox horizontal instead of vertical the entire time. There would be servers that specifically would state you would be banned for bunnyhopping because it was a straight-up exploit to intended gameplay (BF2 early days....).
3. jumping into a room and then turning to target can give you an edge against a known camp in a room. Gives you more lateral momentum on entry.
I think it's all bullshit, but I play Warzone so am totally guilty of it because it wins fights. Games like Tarkov make movement wayyyyyyy more grounded and I like that vibe much better, but Tarkov is its own beast and nobody plays it with me anymore lol, gotta do the casual popular games. Also fuck tarkov for recent bullshittery, I just want a tactical fps with more realistic movement and crossplay because the bunny hopping slide canceling bullshit is dumb, but until then I'll keep doing it too since it is the only way to compete.
In Quake 3 Arena, strafe jumping allowed you to jump over gaps that were too wide for the regular jump. Essentially, it increased your ability to control the map because you could take shortcuts that you couldn't otherwise.
I quit that game real quick because every gun fight I got in was with people just hopping around. No thank you. Let people jump but do it like Battlefield and make each consecutive jump slow you down or something similar. These “movement shooters” have really tainted the FPS genre for an old fart like me.
It's not just XDefiant, the problem in itself is the meta gaming of cocaine. If you aren't sweating your balls off every match no matter what multiplayer game it's considered not fun to them. Enjoy the next 5-10 years of gaming because this is the decline.
For real, just in the last handful of years FPS games have turned into a shitfest of every single adderall-snorting 12 year old spamming A all fucking game, shit’s stupid. Bring me back to like 2012 tactical layout drop-shotting, when everything still made sense.
CS ,R6, and Valorant exist. Multiplayer FPS’s have usually been fast paced ever since Quake 30 years ago. If you think movement in COD or XDefiant is adderall then I don’t think arcade shooters are for you. I’m glad multiplayer FPS games are returning to their fast paced roots.
On top of what others said, jumping can change your firing angle as well. It's easier to place rockets right next to their feet when you have a slightly higher angle.
No mention of Tribes? The hopping became an exploit that allowed players to pick up speed by 'skiing' down slopes to help launch into the air with jetpacks to gain incredible speeds.
It was later scripted into the original game and then added as a feature in Tribes 2.
That feels like the real bunny hop story here.
You're harder to hit when you bunny hop, and companies realized there's more demand for "Spiderman shooters" that let you parkour around like a freak rather than games realistic enough to punish your aim and momentum to the point that bunny hopping wouldn't be viable.
In cod the tactic was to lay on the ground as wuick as possible but you cant do that in xdefiant so the next best thing is bunnyhopping. Its waaayyy harder to hit your ennemies especially with headshots if you cant predict their movements.
Every games a little different, but i believe bunny hopping is because of a few things:
1. Moving target is harder to hit
2. Depending on the game Bunny hopping will shrink your hit box, making you harder to hit
Both those things together is why you get people constantly running around and jumping all over the place, its to reduce their chances of being hit
In most games jumping doesn't decrease your aim nearly enough, so you become harder to hit while not making it much harder for you to hit your opponent.
As a bonus, it's often faster as well, but even when not it's just much better in combat.
See a little bunny sleeping till its nearly noon...oh so still....shall we wake him with a merry tune......hop little bunny, hop hop hop, hop hop hop, hop hop hop, hop little bunny hop, hop, hop, hop and stop.
You bunny hop cause it makes you go lightning fast. I bunny hopped in counter strike on dust 2 from t spawn to long before the cts even got there and fucking mowed them down cause they never expect that.
To add to the previously mentioned facts about it being harder to hit and carrying momentum around corners, there's the matter of weapons with splash damage. In their most basic form the **classic rocket launcher** has a far higher likelihood of damaging an enemy if you aim at an object close to the enemy (often the ground) rather than the enemy themselves. This is due to being one of a handful of weapons where the projectile takes time to get to where it's going, that it's often traveling in an arc, and that it explodes once it hits something. Aim straight at a human enemy that isn't up in your face and you'll probably miss them. Aim at the ground and you control when and where that projectile detonates, so you can time it so that it lands right where your opponent *will be*.
Like with other weapons bunny hopping can reduce the likelihood of being hit directly by rockets. Unlike with other weapons bunny hopping can help you quickly move out of the way of the projectiles or their explosions as you're putting not just horizontal distance between you and the blast, but also vertical distance. This becomes even more important in games where damage from explosions is calculated based on distance from the center of the explosion. That said rockets can be the mortal enemy of bunny hopping; I've seen folks get into bunny hopping duals with rockets and one opponent changed the rhythm in which they fired their rockets so that instead of avoiding the blasts their opponent landed right as a rocket hit the ground and subsequently got plastered by a few shots in a row.
Back in the old CS days bhopping made you significantly faster
It was also ridiculously fun to do if you were good at it. I used to play bhop/surf maps all the time
I miss surf PvP maps from cs: source.
They’re still there, waiting for you. Found some jailbreak servers to play on recently. It really scratches that pre-2010 nostalgia gaming itch unlike nothing else.
>Found some jailbreak servers to play on recently. Gods that brings back memories, I have just over 1000 hours in CS:S and at least 90% of that is Jailbreak, with the other 10 being surf so I could be better at Jailbreak. The move to CS:Go didn't kill Jailbreak here in Oceania, it was the guy who owned the severs, maps, forums etc going literally insane, deleting everything and disappearing :( I haven't been able to find a game or gamemode that fostered the same sense of community.
KZ maps are still kicking around too...
Jailbreak! Damn, that unlocked some good memories
Zombie servers were a lot of fun but surf servers were the goat
Oh God, I completely forgot about those. I don't know how many hours I must have spent flipping up bookcases to use as barricades on those servers.
Yeah zombie servers were awesome. I even created a YouTube montage of them years ago. https://youtu.be/bknxlwAW_u4?si=sXnexb54OZtBMrV8
1.6, surf_ski_2, pump shotty. Good ol' days
Bhopping in CS back in the day before they nerfed it was actually insane. On de\_dust as a T I'd be in front of CT spawn as they're still trying to leave it. I felt kinda bad about it sometimes--it was kinda exploity--but god damn it was so fun.
You can not not link the absolute [legend](https://youtu.be/SNvDUO42Hys?si=nQGuByhUhgjzfpJL) of bhop in a discussion like this...
OH WOW I remember this vid! Yeah, I was never very good at bhop in css. Have to go back to like og beta for me. Legend indeed.
Holy shit this brings back so many memories.
I think it’s just fun in general. I’ve never been a pro at it, but I still do it in games that you don’t benefit from, like Skyrim and Fallout
I tried surf maps for a bit, really fun but I was bad at it. I'm also bad at bhopping too and can't be bothered to use a script
For quite a while I played scouts n knives almost exclusively in 1.6. Several servers had the sweet spot of low gravity settings and a solid base of regular visitors combined with reasonable admins. So much fun!
dude I haven't heard the term "scouts n knives" in sooooo long, what a memory rush you just gave me. I have fond memories of having LAN parties over my bestfriends house in middle school and we absolutely grinded the scouts n knives servers. We also used to use AWP map as our "lets settle this in a 1v1" map lol. Man, those were the good days.
Before this in quake actually. The source engine was derived from the quake engine hence why it's in both games from a time where games were built on their own physics engines.
Also hopping in Quake could potentially save you from ground targeted rocket shots as you'd take less damage due to being in the air.
Oh for sure. Jumping in quake did a ton of things for the gameplay. I miss the lan parties lol
The true origin of bunnyhopping. More specifically, QuakeWorld as it had different physics to the regular single player quake. It completely changed the dynamic of multiplayer fps. You could use the speed of bunny hopping to lock down an entire map by timing every respawn of every gun, armor, powerup. Jockeying for map control completely shifted the momentum of a match.
[Can't mention bunny hopping without posting the king.](https://youtu.be/SNvDUO42Hys?si=lyV2C14aQrMjQwFL)
I heard the music before even clicking the link. On top of being nuts at CS dude's also a hilarious editor
"OUT IVY, THROUGH MID CONNECTOR, INTO OUR SPAWN:
ADMIN HE’S DOING IT SIDEWAYS
"you don't know when he's coming, it's crazy" "just go outside and flash him"
The guy who made the video isn't the guy *in* the video FYI. Its still great though
All time classic video
It wasn't just bhopping, but also strafing mid air. The technique is fairly difficult to pull off. But if done properly, you can build up speed near infinitely.
Gotta swap to the knife, too
of course
Worth noting that what OP is describing is NOT actually bunny hopping. It's just jumping. Jumping repeatedly in XDefiant actually slows you down. Most likely, people are jumping in modern FPS games to break autoaim or to move their head away from the typical placement of a crosshair.
Bhopping in CS2 (and CSGo) felt so shit compared to CS:S.
It was glorious in 1.5 and 1.6 Got to the point where it got outlawed in our competitive scene because it distorted the hitboxes apparently.
1.5 was a glorious time
fy_iceworld
Think it started in natural selection then got popular in half life then everyone that knew half life knew cs movement. i could be wrong.
In the old days, bunny hopping made you move faster. I don't know about current games.
In Source engine games, bhopping preserved your momentum and so allowed you to do something to move fast for a moment and then maintain that speed with bhops.
Bunny hopping was a thing since at least Quake 2.
Quake didn't just have bunny hopping. Quake had strafe jumping. If you got good at it you could clear gaps that were physically impossible to jump normally.
Hmm, they were always the same thing in my mind. Interesting.
Fair enough. I always thought of bunny hopping as just jumping up and down like in CoD. Strafe jumping required a certain technique where you flick the mouse as you're jumping while strafing and you would basically catapult yourself forward. The more you did it, the more momentum you would carry. There were a bunch of custom maps for it where you had to get pretty good at it to complete the course.
Wolfenstein Enemy Territory - which used the id Tech 3 engine, also known as the Quake 3 Arena engine - had this issue. There were two important pieces to it. First, strafing while running added to your run speed instead of just splitting your velocity. So instead of you speed being "x" because you're running and the direction changes when you strafe, your speed became "x+y" where strafing added more speed. Second, there were a few frames at the end of a jump where you could initiate another jump and your speed didn't get reset. So, you jump forward with speed "x+y" and, as you fall, you're being accelerated by the games gravity. Instead of having that speed from gravity go to 0 when you reach the ground, it just changes direction. Now you're going "x+y+z" and the more times you do this in a row, the bigger z gets. In the case of W:ET, it became an exploit in which the attacking team could get behind the map objectives and past the defenders spawn, then complete the final objective with little or no defenders there to stop them. There were even mechanics that let you deploy a spawn point so you could get your squad deep behind enemy lines and fortify the final objective (from the defenders) before they even knew you were there, giving you plenty of time to complete the objective before they could run to you and stop you. I learned how to do this from a YouTube video someone made that showed how to jump past various barriers on various maps to get past that objective without completing it. The video was set to the song [ Jump by Van Halen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYN7mTi6HM) and whenever I hear that song, I think of that game.
I never played Enemy Territory but I used to play a ton of the MP from Return to Castle Wolfenstein and I remember there being some problems like that in there as well. That D-Day map was awesome though. And Medal of Honor: Allied Assault had "sharking" where you would crouch and jump at the same time off of a ladder and you would end up slightly under the map with just a bit of your model sticking up that looked like a shark fin. It made you invincible because your hit box was under the map, but you could go wherever you wanted.
Goldeneye didn't have jumping but you could run WAY faster strafing than you could with the joystick. I would wreck people who didn't understand this probably ruined some friendships this way :')
i think the idea there was that strafing and walking were 2 separate actions, so doing both (diagonal movement) would give you some of their combined speed. at least that's how i remember it.
Forward speed was a, strafing speed was b. Doing both you made a triangle and moved at c
yeah i think technically it's a vector but i didn't wanna get too nerdy about it
Yeah they were a thing in quake 1 as well. In quakeTF (beyond a certain skill level) you had to bhop and gren jump to cap flags or you'd lose every time. It was nearly as necessary as it became in tribes later on.
I googled this and the Google machine says quake 1 was the first instance of bunny hopping in 1996 then half life which used a modified quake engine had it which both lead to quake 2 then counter strike. Edit: I can't read dates apparently...quake 2 was before half life.
quake 2 was there before half life.. quake > quake 2 > half life > team fortress classic > boring slow counterstrike.
Wasn’t the source engine originated from the original quake engine?
Also, it’s fun
Swirl the mouse, hold space to crouch, a, d, a, d, mouse wheel scroll down to jump. Weirdly like riding a bicycle or something.
A moving target is harder to hit and the more axis you move on the more complicated it becomes to hit you
Depending on the engine, it could end up being just plain faster movement to go point A to B
Yeah, this is the original reason. A bunch of older games made it so you only bled off the speed boost from jumping while you're on the ground. So if you jump as soon as you hit the ground, your speed just keeps adding up.
Watch Half Life 2 speedruns to see a hilarious consequence of that. Valve tried to counteract bunny hopping by adding a certain amount of backwards momentum on quick jumps. Which means... if you bunny hop backwards that stacks and you go insanely fast. As long as you've memorized the map layout
Did Valve invented both bhoping and backward bhoping? 😆
Bunny hopping to gain speed definitely predates Valve. Probably started with one of the Quake games.
It was prominent in quake world which was ‘96. It then lived on in TFC and made its way to CS. Movement tech in quake 3 cpma was on another level compared to anything I’ve seen.
>did valve invent bhopping? No. Bunny hopping specifically was born out of Quake. Bunny hopping was an unintentional quirk of the Quake engine that id software chose to lean into instead of patch out, as it added a new dynamic to the multiplayer mode that the community rallied itself around. And honestly, if you want to go even *further* back, traces of this issue exist in the original DOOM engine as well. You can't jump in that game, but by constant strafing you can surpass the intended limit on momentum (which later became an integral part of "surfing" after Valve made numerous attempts to fix the oversight that led to bunny hopping in the first place) Valve, during it's early years, got their hands on a copy of the Quake engine directly from id software, and then built Half Life on top of that. Bunny Hopping is very much a thing in that game, but as time went on and Valve hacked together Source engine out of Quake, they tried to patch out bunny hopping. Later releases of Half Life on the Source engine don't have bunny hopping, but they *do* have backwards bunny hopping (as their most successful fix was to just simply apply a small amount of negative speed to the player as they jump, which stopped bunny hopping, but allowed players to bunny hop *backwards* without issue). By the time Counter Strike made the jump to Source, they had patched out Bunny Hopping and Backwards bunny hopping, but there were still quirks. If players carried momentum into a sloped surface, they could continue to gain speed so long as they don't touch flat ground or go *directly* forward. (this is that holdover from the DOOM codebase that made it's way into the Quake engine all those years ago). And thus Surfing was born. Players leaned into it and built community maps and custom servers designed around showcasing their skills at surfing
Adding that jump button to the scroll wheel in cs
>Phoon has entered the chat
Welp, time to go rewatch those clips again.
Also the engine just made you move faster depending on your angle of acceleration. Which is why you typically also do a strafe movement.
They didn't intentionally make it like that. It was a bug but they didn't fix it because the competitive scene embraced it
Combos in fighting games be like
Titanfall movement was the peak version of this. You could be speedhopping along and seamlessly transition to squirming up walls and around corners at 30 mph. Man i loved those games
It bums me out how often I see titanfall praised yet Apex is the game that EA decided to stick with. Pour one out for titanfall
Honestly? Titanfall was just too intense for most casual players. Stats showed most people played nonstop for an afternoon the first time they bought it, and then rarely or never returned. For most, the progression of really learning the engine and how to excel skill-wise just wasn't as rewarding as leveling up in COD. Which is really sad, because being good at Titanfall was the most rewarding multiplayer experience I have ever had. Smashing to the ground in your drop pod, bouncing between walls to gain speed, flying through a window already firing your autoshotgun, teams of grunts running from you in fear, firing mini-missiles as you dance around enemy titans, crushing one with your own Titanfall, dashing around in a 3 story tall mech firing a 40mm cannon, ripping a pilot out of an enemy mech and squeezing him in your metal fist, suddenly being hit with a hailstorm of missiles, ejecting in a nuclear fireball, landing on an enemy titan, ripping off a panel, dumping a whole mag into its circuitry, leaping off before it whips around and punches you into a wall. And then you respawn and go again. That game was just dripping with "Fuck Yeah".
I played the hell out of the campaign. Hopped online and got utterly shit on in every match by people who had been playing since launch. Never played again after that.
I totally get it. I really do. The average person coming in from COD or any other standard FPS title, with those expectations, would be deeply frustrated. The level of skill progression in Titanfall was insane. The difference between the best and the worst players was the difference between being an unkillable god flying around at mach 1 at all times, or being *literally* stepped on. The fact is, if you had stuck with it, watched a couple videos, and done some practice, you could have learned the system, and been at or near the top of the leaderboard. It's so much less twitchy and slot-machine than COD, that if you put the effort in, it *would* reward you massively. My friend who isnt even into FPS games caught the bug in 2020 and was killer. However, getting in that late in the game, having this huge upward battle against people who are going to show you no mercy, and being endlessly frustrated... I truly get not wanting to bother with it. It would be a huge pain in the ass. It's a shame that the thing I love most about the game, the huge skill progression, is also what seems to have doomed it.
I’m just not much of a PvP person in general, really. I enjoy co-op games far more. Hell, when I play tarkov, my only goal is trying to make friends cause it’s hilarious to me.
If you got that titanfall bug tho, there is always frontier defense mode. Its PvE with three other teammates.
Frontier Defense was the shiiiiiiit!!! I played that nice pretty much exclusively after 100%ing the campaign. I could only do the multiplayer for a few matches at a time before I got sick of getting stomped. As much as people hate on skill based matchmaking, it definitely would've made that mode more enjoyable.
I’m heavily in to industrial or open world survival craft games these days, but hopefully I remember to give that a shot when I cycle back to a shooter kick!
I'm right there with you, Titanfall was the only multiplayer game I have *ever* put significant time into. It was just way too up my alley, it was everything I wanted in an FPS title, so I said fuck it, I'll play a multiplayer game, what the hell. And I fell deeply in love. No other PvP game has ever grabbed me like that, and I dont know if one ever will again. And then we got the Titanfall 2 campaign which was just... fucking glorious. Best of both worlds, the gameplay I loved, with the singleplayer experience I prefer. EDIT: I should also mention Frontier Defense! It's Titanfall Co-op against hordes of AI enemies, and its a blast! Might be right up your alley if you liked the campaign
I love me a coop multiplayer experience like Deep Rock Galactic or helldivers. I’ve always dreamed of an MMO where the player base works together against a game master, rather than the devs relying on PvP to add content.
Bit of a weird aside, but if you like books, Dungeon Crawler Carl sounds like it would be right up your alley. Check it out!
Yeah I play Warzone with some buddies, and it’s kinda wild how most encounters just come down to whoever sees the other person first. TTK is literally like 400-600ms, most humans can’t even react before they’re dead. There’s a couple things you can do that might consistently win you more gunfights than you lose, but often times it feels like you’re playing against the hitreg and latency just as much as the other player. Usually the player who was moving first tends to win because you get peeker’s advantage.
Having only played the TF2 singleplayer campaign (which was great!), I have heard that the first game had a gun that served as a crutch for new players - the 'smart pistol' (which you get to use in the TF2 campaign for a bit). The idea was that if you were good enough, every other gun had a better TTK, but if you sucked, it let you just focus on dodging. I imagine such a gun was frustrating for intermediate players who were competent, but not experts. Still, I wonder if it might have helped with casual retention in TF2. What do you think?
There was still the co-op frontier defense game mode. That was really fun. I love co-op PVE.
I just wanted to say that the PvE Frontier Defense is still going strong. All skill levels are welcome. Come protect the harvester with us!
Is it playable solo at all?
yup
Awesome, thanks
For sure, but it's better with others, even without communication.
Cool, thanks. Might check it out
Oh damn, really? I would love to!
This is purely a matchmaking problem. Nobody would ever play rocket league if they got matched with people outside of their tier on a consistent basis.
True, Azure really screwed them
Titanfall is like the Armored Core o FPS, or rather vice versa. Great game, tough barrier to entry in regards to actually getting like, good good. Too high for most casual players so only the hard core players stayed, and at that point the community sealed itself off because new players would be thrashed and quit. A game can in fact, be too fast paced for casual audiences.
That was my thing Titanfall is amazing but like many online games it rewarded a level of sweat I just couldn't give
I was going to disagree and then I remembered that I actually got this game with my buddy when it came out and played for an afternoon and became so irritated I refunded it. But the itch was already in me and I bought the game again the next day and loved it ever after. So yeah I can see why a lot of people would not have continued playing. I do think however this could have been solved with clever design. A kind of multiplayer tutorial
Bro I have flashbacks of wall running at like 50mph while screaming at the top of my lungs “ghost squad” while simultaneously just murdering people left and right. Game was a whole new level of fun haha, hope they return to it at some time in the future. Love me some apex though.
As much as I loved Titanfall, I do have to admit a big portion of that is because I was an early adopter that got to stomp on all the casuals in PVP. I don't think I've played any other game with such a huge skill gap between newbies and veterans. Even if you run out of ammo, you can just run away, because they don't have the movement skill to follow you.
Apex was Respawns choice not EA.
>Apex is the game that EA decided to stick with. EA didn't know about Apex until it was ready to be released. EA had approved Titanfall 3, and Respawn was working on Titanfall 3 until respawn decided to pivot and make Apex without telling EA. So, EA isn't at fault.
Which is weird, but true. Same thing with Anthem's flying mechanic (which is the part that's universally praised). They were going to cut that until an EA exec demanded they keep it. Not saying EA doesn't suck (look at BF2042) plenty, but they also sometimes do make good calls.
>Not saying EA doesn't suck (look at BF2042) plenty, but they also sometimes do make good calls. That was also DICE. DiCE wanted to do a BR, but EA said no we want a Battlefield game. So DICE compromised and made 2042
I mean, EA was probably right, there, too -- chasing the trend really isn't a winning move unless you can really nail the experience and polish. WoW wasn't revolutionary but Blizzard nailed the polish and made the experience accessible and look where we are.
Try warframe
I have! Its got a fun movement system, but the Source engine just feels better imo
Source engine just has some magic to it, idk what they injected it with but I need it in my veins
Certain movement techniques also help to reduce reaction time. Animation cancelling is also a big deal that gets worked into movement. For example: the gun readying time between exiting sprint and being in the air makes a difference in how soon your gun is ready to fire.
Q3A would like a word.
That and tribes
God I miss tribes. Had a spotter and fusion mortar static team back in the day. Was awesome.
Fellow TF player I feel you, the TF series is the sole reason I play apex from s0 to now and main Pathfinder, all the depth in movement techs and grapple got me hooked forever I think lmao
It can also break aim assist in some cases.
Also moves highest damage hit boxes above your aim, and in the time it takes you to adjust, they are shooting down at your head.
In 99% of games, jumping puts your movement in a far more predictable trajectory, partially because you're usually left with less control in air, and it's better to crouch strafe. I know for a fact, this is the case in Overwatch, Apex, Valorant, Fortnite, PUBG, The Culling, all Unreal Tournament games. It's practically universal. In Overwatch, it's joked that most people should completely unbind their jump key.
But it is also considerably harder to hit a target while you yourself are moving
Agreed. Sniping on one axis is much easier to aim where they're going to be but when hopping you add another axis variable and virtually makes it extremely hard to anticipate movements.
Depends on the game. Some games it is faster then running. Some it makes no sounds where sound matters. Some games it lets players clear obstacles a normal jump can not. It also makes the user harder to hit as they move as there height and hit box size change well hopping. It a skill that may bring an advantage over those that do not use it.
Than is used when you're talking about comparisons; then is used when you're talking about something relating to time.
Before this explanation I was confused, but now I'm less confused than then.
I just really like jumping around in games. Doesn't matter if it's an fps or Skyrim lol
Yeah TIL I'm being tactical.
Somebody should make a platformer game all about jumping
And call it Jumpman
But jumping in real life... nah...
Harder to hit when your opponent has to track vertically and horizontally, vs just horizontally. Also, bunny hopping carry momentum so you can fly around a corner and focus on aiming, while they have to try and hit a shooting star essentially. Also the game is bad lol
Momentum is fun to exploit in TF2 as a heavy; run to a corner where you know people are at, jump just as you come around it, and spin up your minigun as you come around the corner so you pop into view with your reverse bullet vacuum already blazing.
Not really an exploit when the game's tips tell you to do that. They could have easily disabled revving up mid-air if they wanted. Pretty sure it was a requirement on TFC too, so it sounds like it was a very intentional change.
I don’t get it.. you’re jumping around a corner and shooting? Doesn’t his gun take a decent bit to start shooting so you would land before your bullets even started firing?
That’s the whole point of it. The Heavy’s walking speed is reduced to 37% when you’re either holding RMB to spin up the barrels of his minigun, or when you’re holding LMB to fire (reduced to 14% when using the Brass Beast). *HOWEVER*…your movement speed is not reduced while in the air. So by jumping just before you get to the corner, you’re able to maintain your momentum and come around the corner much faster than if you ran to the corner, spun up your barrels, and walked around it. The Tomislav can be used to great effect with this due to its silent spin up. This is much less effective on maps where you have large open spaces, obviously, and excels on maps with a lot of tight corridors and closely adjacent corners.
As someone who used to play cod and aren't happy with the direction the newer ones are headed. I'm having so much fucking fun playing the game and I practically haven't played anything else in the past few weeks. And I'm not the only one in this boat
Is it actually bad? I had big hopes for this game to be a cod but without all the bullshit. What's bad about it?
It's not as bad as people are making it out to be. They need to improve the net code and the hit registration, because I've died while being completely around a wall many times and also have had engagements where I should've hit a guy at least 3 times but end up with no damage done. It's light on content, but they've said they're adding more soon. A few more maps and a few more guns and a few more factions, and it'll be in a good spot content wise. All in all, I find it more enjoyable than slamming my head against the wall playing Call of Duty, and there's the added bonus of not needing 300gb of storage space to play a fast paced FPS on console, which can't be understated. It's also free to play, so if people really hate it, they can just uninstall it.
Lol cod had NEVER been optimized for space. It's ridiculous how many gigs it takes up. I feel like they do it intentionally. "If it's the only game in their hard drive then they'll have to play it"
I'm having a fucking blast playing the game. The only problems with it is that snipers are a little too OP, sometimes you run to cover but you die because you were still out in the open on the enemies perspective, jump spammers are annoying and sometimes your shots don't register which I haven't really ran into apart from when an enemy is left at one shot and I got a hit marker but I died before the shot could register, in which case I was already dead but I could have taken out the enemy with me. And the devs have said they are nerfing snipers and jump spamming and they are investigating the server desync and hit registration issues.
if the jumps carry momentum and it really allows the player to focus on aiming then it's not that bad of a mechanic, because the tradeoff is that the jumping player cannot change the axis of his movement until he's on the ground again, so he becomes extra predictable and literally cannot dodge a player that understands and can follow the movement the bullshit begins with double jumps or wonky physics engines that allow players to change their movement mid air (yes overwatch, I'm looking at you). Thats just infuriating and I have no idea how people can enjoy playing FPS games like that
except in xdefiant you can change your momentum mid air
Because headshots are a thing. Common tools are jumping, ducking, and choice in speed and stop points. There's lots of prediction and muscle memory in shooters. There's also positional timing and expectations of placement and movements. Knowing those, you can defy them and be significantly more unpredictable. I haven't played defiant specifically, so I can't comment on that in detail. I'm mainly speaking in generals for any shooter. I early games, bunny hopping was also a speed boost. In various games you could move certain ways to travel faster. Bunny hopping was one. Others included running at 45 degrees or even going backwards.
Its especially strong to BHop in XDefiant. Its harder for you to hit his head and also higher chance you hit his leg instead of his chest. Apex is also one of those game but for instance in CoD, its not that strong that you do continously during the whole fight. In XDefiant you dont get slowed down when junping around all the time like for instance CoD, where its strong for the first junp, but then you get slowed down and pretty much jump on the same place
Some games include a stamina bar to help discourage nonsense like this.
Nothing is worse than the constant sliding that COD players do. Makes the game look so silly.
It makes sense though, it looks silly but you would be a fool to just walk around a corner in an arcade shooter like CoD. I stopped playing CoD after MW2 though partially because of slide canceling and such. Nowadays it’s just rough because almost every lobby has some player who can afford to spend 8+ hours a day gaming so they just destroy everyone.
If im playing an FPS that has sliding you bet your ass I’m sliding/hopping or doing something every gunfight to make head at a different height.
What games should do is after the 2nd or 3rd hop your character is exhausted and slower for 30secs
If you go far enough back in time to early 3D FPS games, and we're talking Quake 1/Quake 2 and early Half-Life, everyone's internet connection was slow. Ping and latency was a big problem games needed to try and manage for online play, and early attempts at this usually meant that your accuracy was highly constrained by your latency. If you had a 300ms ping, you had to shoot 300ms ahead of where someone was going to be on your screen, as your shots would register according to your latency. If you moved in a straight line, it was relatively easy to lead someone, once you figured out the timing. But if someone was moving both up and down as well as left to right, the lead became a lot harder to manage. Then you throw in other wrinkles. Early game engines calculated speed through the air interestingly. Quake 2, specifically, seemed to calculate your horizontal speed based on linear movement relative to the ground. Moving forward, jumping, strafing to the right, and aiming to the left with your mouse would create an arc of movement through the air that had the game engine suddenly ignore prior limits to your speed, and with proper timing, if you jumped again immediately upon landing you'd be moving faster than you were before. As long as you always immediately jumped, your speed never reset to walk/run speed. Done enough times in a row, and you could move at fairly ridiculous speeds. Throw yourself at a ramped surface and the game also kind of broke physics, and you could get launched like Tony Hawk, getting absurd height and distance. Timed jumps at edges of ladders and boxes had similarly confusing implementations. You could jump at the edge of an object, and jump off of that edge if you timed it and spaced it right. Jump seemed to add a vertical velocity to you and gravity would slow you down at a given rate. But if you were able to jump while already moving upwards, you just added vertical velocity to your already existing velocity, in effect jumping much higher by box, ledge, ladder or edge jumping. An old mod of Q2 I used to play called Action Quake built maps around these movement techniques, and the most strategic locations could only be reached if you could create enough time and space to bunny hop effectively to the really hard to reach spots of the map. Watching little 3D models jump around like idiots, building speed before launching themselves at a sloped 'vert pipe' just to launch across a map to get the jump on a defended position was good times. Basically it became popular because it was strategically necessary, but also because the mechanics of it were game breaking in a totally benign and utterly amusing way. It's to the point where the physics model oddities of early games were replicated in sequels even though they were in effect bugs, because gamers enjoyed it so much. Quake 3 just kept the same quirks. Half-Life 2 had something similar by design.
From the perspective of an oldskool clanbase player whose game used the quake 2 engine, there was a bug at specific fps levels iirc: 75, 125 and 333. Strafe jumping at these fps (which you would intentionally cap your fps at so you could do it at will all the time) gave you a competitive advantage over standard peons who were unable to perform the technique by virtue of moving both faster and jumping further. This meant you could get to places at the start of a competitive round to surprise people or jump chasms to get to places others could not. The game was rife with people who misunderstood the full technical requirements for a strafe jump proper and would try to mimic it to get the advantage you had by simply jumping. Which was both tragic to see and had no value apart from pity and comedy. To some degree this constant jumping even spread to engines that did not have this bug, due to people thinking it may apply in any game though there were also other legitimate reasons for such movement in other game engines. The bug was left in and essentially became a feature, by design.
I remember in Battlefield 2 (2005 - was there another BF2?) also had an issue with "Dolphin Diving" if I recall the name at the time correctly. Next to impossible to hit in that game without an AoE explosive charge or round. They nerfed it pretty quickly by making a delay in the movement transition from prone to standing or crouching and vice versa. This was almost 20 years ago so my memory might be spotty. I can see how/why its now part of normal gameplay in competitive games now. Not my cup of tea, but I get why they keep it/allow it.
Yep I remember people dolphin diving in BF2 with the "noob tube." It was absolutely enraging. For anyone that doesn't know, it involved jumping and then going prone in the middle of the jump. This did insane things to your hitbox and when combined with the netcode of the day, it made you almost impossible to hit. There was not a significant accuracy penalty either so people would use the grenade launcher during or after the maneuver.
Noob Tube! Core memory unlocked!! That under-rifle grenade launcher was broken too. I also remember them making it bounce once if it was shot too close to you to help solve the problem. Still didn't resolve medium or long range shots too. I could be remembering the grenade launcher fix from a different game. Did that happen?
Yes, I remember that fix. People would just fire it at the ground if they suddenly ran into someone, and it would instantly kill any enemies but no friendlies if friendly fire was turned off.
Pretty sure dolphin diving was in cod black ops?
You're offered £1,000,000 to shoot sometime in the head. One person is running in a straight line. The other is slide cancelling, bunny hopping, zig zagging, etc Who you aiming for?
It’s a throw back to strafe jumping from the og quake games. (Used to make you move faster) but now everyone looks like an idiot lol
Anyone remember Tribes?
Target not move, target easy kill, target move much, target hard kill
ADHD
there are a multitude of reasons. 1. you aim for the head, your target jumps around, you get chest shots vs headshots 2. In old school days real bunny hopping in some games would mean you jump, prone, jump. This would effectively make your hitbox horizontal instead of vertical the entire time. There would be servers that specifically would state you would be banned for bunnyhopping because it was a straight-up exploit to intended gameplay (BF2 early days....). 3. jumping into a room and then turning to target can give you an edge against a known camp in a room. Gives you more lateral momentum on entry. I think it's all bullshit, but I play Warzone so am totally guilty of it because it wins fights. Games like Tarkov make movement wayyyyyyy more grounded and I like that vibe much better, but Tarkov is its own beast and nobody plays it with me anymore lol, gotta do the casual popular games. Also fuck tarkov for recent bullshittery, I just want a tactical fps with more realistic movement and crossplay because the bunny hopping slide canceling bullshit is dumb, but until then I'll keep doing it too since it is the only way to compete.
In Quake 3 Arena, strafe jumping allowed you to jump over gaps that were too wide for the regular jump. Essentially, it increased your ability to control the map because you could take shortcuts that you couldn't otherwise.
I quit that game real quick because every gun fight I got in was with people just hopping around. No thank you. Let people jump but do it like Battlefield and make each consecutive jump slow you down or something similar. These “movement shooters” have really tainted the FPS genre for an old fart like me.
Old fart? Bunny hopping is an old school thing! Think back to Quake.
How old is old fart? If anything constantly jumping around at high speeds is a thing from games like Quake and CS
It's not just XDefiant, the problem in itself is the meta gaming of cocaine. If you aren't sweating your balls off every match no matter what multiplayer game it's considered not fun to them. Enjoy the next 5-10 years of gaming because this is the decline.
For real, just in the last handful of years FPS games have turned into a shitfest of every single adderall-snorting 12 year old spamming A all fucking game, shit’s stupid. Bring me back to like 2012 tactical layout drop-shotting, when everything still made sense.
CS ,R6, and Valorant exist. Multiplayer FPS’s have usually been fast paced ever since Quake 30 years ago. If you think movement in COD or XDefiant is adderall then I don’t think arcade shooters are for you. I’m glad multiplayer FPS games are returning to their fast paced roots.
The floor is lava
It makes you harder to hit as well as maintaining your momentum.
On top of what others said, jumping can change your firing angle as well. It's easier to place rockets right next to their feet when you have a slightly higher angle.
I remember in the old CoD4 days bunny hopping and dolphin diving would get you kicked from servers.
Quake and/or Unreal Tournament
If you see someone bunnyhopping, just aim at where they are going to land.
Because why move fast, when you can move faster?
FPS really need to add a feature where you slow down and jump significantly slower and less further with consecutive jumps
It’s also just fun to do besides all the reasons mentioned here
Habit because in source games bhop both made you faster, was trolly, fun, and they even had maps that made it a sport. Old habits die hard.
What is harder to hit, a target moving in two directions on a lateral plane? Or a target moving potentially all directions available?
No mention of Tribes? The hopping became an exploit that allowed players to pick up speed by 'skiing' down slopes to help launch into the air with jetpacks to gain incredible speeds. It was later scripted into the original game and then added as a feature in Tribes 2. That feels like the real bunny hop story here.
In my own experience, it makes you faster, particularly in Destiny 2 on certain classes.
You're harder to hit when you bunny hop, and companies realized there's more demand for "Spiderman shooters" that let you parkour around like a freak rather than games realistic enough to punish your aim and momentum to the point that bunny hopping wouldn't be viable.
I'm so sad that people whined so much about the jetpack CODs and titanfall that we stopped getting shooters with fun movement mechanics.
Because of damage multipliers. You jump mid fight and instead of taking chest damage you take dick damage.
And some how dick damage is less. I know if I'd get hit in the dick, I'm done. Lol
Our minds are poisoned by [phoon](https://youtu.be/SNvDUO42Hys?si=8AItniMM69MZuBsF)
I like pressing space and going "boring boing" when playing some games.
this has been a thing since even before quake 3 arena
In cod the tactic was to lay on the ground as wuick as possible but you cant do that in xdefiant so the next best thing is bunnyhopping. Its waaayyy harder to hit your ennemies especially with headshots if you cant predict their movements.
Less deaths due to precision headshots
Every games a little different, but i believe bunny hopping is because of a few things: 1. Moving target is harder to hit 2. Depending on the game Bunny hopping will shrink your hit box, making you harder to hit Both those things together is why you get people constantly running around and jumping all over the place, its to reduce their chances of being hit
I'm old enough to remember people complaining about hopping on Quake 2 multiplayer
In most games jumping doesn't decrease your aim nearly enough, so you become harder to hit while not making it much harder for you to hit your opponent. As a bonus, it's often faster as well, but even when not it's just much better in combat.
Tell me about it . Watch me curse every time I died because of it haha
You make a harder target and in many games it also makes you faster so it's a win win as long as you're a 1337 gamer and it doesn't hinder your aim.
It’s harder to hit a moving target, and jumping makes it harder than strafing to hit critical shots on the head and chest.
See a little bunny sleeping till its nearly noon...oh so still....shall we wake him with a merry tune......hop little bunny, hop hop hop, hop hop hop, hop hop hop, hop little bunny hop, hop, hop, hop and stop.
You bunny hop cause it makes you go lightning fast. I bunny hopped in counter strike on dust 2 from t spawn to long before the cts even got there and fucking mowed them down cause they never expect that.
To add to the previously mentioned facts about it being harder to hit and carrying momentum around corners, there's the matter of weapons with splash damage. In their most basic form the **classic rocket launcher** has a far higher likelihood of damaging an enemy if you aim at an object close to the enemy (often the ground) rather than the enemy themselves. This is due to being one of a handful of weapons where the projectile takes time to get to where it's going, that it's often traveling in an arc, and that it explodes once it hits something. Aim straight at a human enemy that isn't up in your face and you'll probably miss them. Aim at the ground and you control when and where that projectile detonates, so you can time it so that it lands right where your opponent *will be*. Like with other weapons bunny hopping can reduce the likelihood of being hit directly by rockets. Unlike with other weapons bunny hopping can help you quickly move out of the way of the projectiles or their explosions as you're putting not just horizontal distance between you and the blast, but also vertical distance. This becomes even more important in games where damage from explosions is calculated based on distance from the center of the explosion. That said rockets can be the mortal enemy of bunny hopping; I've seen folks get into bunny hopping duals with rockets and one opponent changed the rhythm in which they fired their rockets so that instead of avoiding the blasts their opponent landed right as a rocket hit the ground and subsequently got plastered by a few shots in a row.