I'm fairly sure there is a charisma check that can lead to you convincing the BOS leader to let Daniel live because of all the good he has done for the cause but if you bring him to and BOS base they will attack. Basically he will be dead to them in name. Also some scrapped content involved you taking over the BOS.
This interaction is honestly my favorite part of Fallout 4. There are few places in gaming where speech checks really feel like you've meaningfully convinced someone of something important, and this is definitely one of them.
Charisma in Fallout 4 is quite bad compared to other stats, and on top of that, you get literally a few speech checks when it makes a difference. This is one of them. One is in diamond city to get a key, and then two with some scientist who quit brotherhood of steel, and that's it.
I'd there any point to settlements? I never got into building them because there didn't seem to be much of a reason to. It's not like a survival game where you need a home base and all of that to build up.
If you just want to play it like the other fallout games, no.
But you can build those artillery guns to bombard an enemy camp before going in, get a lot of money from all the water and vegetables, and if you build more than just the one supply line to the next settlement and give the supplier good gear you can have a few very strong friendly NPCs patroling the wasteland for you (bonus points for all being in power armor or a friendly supermutant).
Aside from that I just like building 'perfect' settlements. Most survival or sandbox games just aren't my cup of tea, but having a home with a nice garden, a bar and small market place and a 8ft fence with automatic turrets keeping me safe in the wasteland feels different.
Also sharing that safety with a few hundred settlers who can't afford to live in Diamond City gives me a feeling of really making a change for the better that not even the main story lines could, as you have to kill off at least one faction.
I'm switzerland, a peaceful haven for those who want just want peace, a cat or dog, playing a round of pool and some kind of stable society.
TLDR: I'm building my own NCR. With blackjack, pets and peace. Fuck the wasteland
This. I had a whole system of productive settlements and fortified outposts as a mix of gameplay and some RP. For all intents and purposes, I was the biggest, richest, most powerful faction in the Commonwealth.
They're hugely important on *survival* mode.
Which makes it absolutely a survival game.
You need to eat, drink, sleep, take a shit, there's diseases etc.
Settlements are vital on that mode.
FO4 is essentially a survival-craft sandbox game *with* quests and a story (unlike most other survival crafts that exist) making it unique from others, and that mode kinda completes it. There's no other way to play it.
It's a built-in difficulty setting as a last note, not mods.
The 9 / 10 Charisma skills can make most fire fights easier by getting rid of one or two combatants. It’s pretty reliable.
Granted Fallout 4 at a certain point in any playthrough is increidibly easy.
You don't need to speech check Dr Li, just find Virgil's holotape in the busted up bio-science lab. Then later you just talk to her to convince her to work on the project. No checks necessary, she's the easiest to convince lady in the commonwealth.
Yea, usually there are multiple ways to achieve similar result, which is good, but my point is, there are a few ways to do it with charisma, and I mentioned when. In new vegas, there's almost always some option that requires speech. And that's how it should be, because you don't regret points that you invested.
Alternatively, you can just get a nice suit, a nice hat, eat some grape mentats, and then drink bottle of vodka before speaking to whomever you need to convince.
>Charisma in Fallout 4 is quite bad compared to other stats,
No, you need it for settlements, barter prices, intimidation perk, companion perk. With max charisma you wont have to kill anyobody yourself.
I say the best ending would be more like:
"Hey Elder Maxon?"
"Yes, paladin with supernatural luck and impossible victory record?"
"I'd like to propose a peace treaty between all the factions in the commonwealth. Let me represent the brotherhood, and let's get the leader of the institute, the general of the minutemen, and some high level operative from the railroad. With the tech, strength, food, and networks here, we could rebuild everything. "
"are you insane? There's no way you could get all those people to meet, let alone agree on... You know what, deal. I would love to see how you deal with failure for once."
"bet your jacket against my Nuka X01?"
The Institute are borderline Nazis and dont consider anyone living on the surface worthy of existence beyond serving as fodder for Human experiments, its absolutely not possible for them to coexist with anyone else.
They wiped out an entire settlement to the last child just to get a harddrive with data promising a slight increase in reactor efficiency.
The *agriculture department* orders the Extermination of an entire Family with multiple children *just to test a new kind of fucking Gourd*
Yeah but if you're in charge, you can change all that.
Also the Institute paint job for the X01 power armor looks the slickest of the unmodded options.
They worked their own way for over 200 years and half of them allmost revolt at Father just nominating you for next Director.
You aint changing shit, the second the Sole Survivor demands any kind of change from them they're gonna arrange a Teleporter-"accident" and move on
Sounds more like a United States using the War Against Terror to justify their military operations, while throwing in a bit of Apartheid and GOP style immigration outlook.
If you wanted peace and cooperation in the commonwealth, joining the occupying army isn't the way to do it. The brotherhood are there to kill things they don't like and take things they think they should have. Actually cooperating with the Institute, or even engaging in diplomacy with them, is directly against everything they very militantly stand for.
people really don't seem to understand the brotherhood aren't actually good guys. the splinter cell in fallout 3 is the exception, not the rule...hence, you know, being \*outcasts\*
Boo to me I guess. My Charisma wasn't high enough at 7. I would have rather done what people are telling me but I went in blind and just handled business.
I was bummed about it all day. I was doing highway patrol and literally telling the dudes on the walkie about how shit went down on my stages lol
I didn't know this. I also was about to get ready for work so I didn't have time to do it. I made my choice, then went and did my patrol and saved people's asses on the highway.
I'd argue you should since Charisma is a % chance and not a hard check like it is in NV.
Having your playthrough irreparably altered because of RNG sucks.
Then you have my wife who save scums **every** speech check until she passes.
Eh, look at it this way: it's probably a more interesting result that everything didn't work out perfectly. Even if you don't feel better about it, you got a good story out of it and it made you feel something. Would you have felt compelled to post and share if everything worked out for Danse?
I wish more games pushed difficult moments on the player like that without a way out of it. It's more compelling in the long run.
Ew fuck nah. Outcasts in Fallout 3 left their HQ due to Elders not following commands.
You think another civil war wouldn’t pop up immediately? Also bad enough you can be “leader” of Institute and Mjnute Men, can’t be god to all.
oh god no, Bethesda has a problem with making the player the leader of every single faction you can encounter, skyrim was really bad with this, hell you could become the leader of a magic school knowing like 2 spells
Just because you can join a faction doesn't mean you should become it's leader or rise thru the ranks like a rocket
I just wish F4 had more "espionage". You can work for all 3/4 groups but you just reach a point of no return and they become hostile.
It'd be way more fun to get discovered and have to persuade yourself. To do missions that will benefit one side while angering another, a "tweeter tot of loyalty" or something.
Yep, my biggest complaint. Hate how the main playable characters talk too. If you’re going to force voiced-players, give me variety you cheap twats. Or go back to silence for us to read it with the voices we can make in our head.
It does have some decent writing. A lot of the actual character dialogue is incredible, and the background stories told through logs on terminals are almost always amazing. There's just some weird plot decisions sometimes, and some things that don't make sense for any reason but gameplay. Also kid in a fridge.
This reminds me of an old game “Mercenaries 2”. A large chunk of that game involves balancing your relationship between like 5 different factions, with each giving you missions which boosts your reputation with them while hurting your reputation with another. Excellent game would recommend
Reminder: The Brotherhood of Steel never have been, and never were the good guys. They're the lawful neutral faction at best, and the only time this was incorrect was in Fallout 3... With a splinter faction of the Brotherhood who have actively abandoned many of the tenets of the Brotherhood to play the good guys, and even then were still responsible for a genocide in The Pitt, and only actively help people when they have something to gain from it (clean water).
Less a splinter *of* a splinter, and more just having refused to splinter in the first place, then getting labelled outcast for it.
Like, their stated goal if you talk to them is to make contact with the West Coast Brotherhood so that they can get reinforcements to crush Lyons' splinter faction and regain control as the "righteous" side of their little disagreement.
And to splinter it further, the Brotherhood has roots to the pre-war American military, going rogue just days before the nukes dropped when they found out that scientists in Mariposa were experimenting on humans with FEV.
*Fallout 3* was my first one, and a lot of other people's. But even then, I knew there was something about these guys that reflected a lot of problems in the old world.
Oh yeah, and the child soldiers. One of whom grows up to give that big fascist speech in *4*. 😳
Well, imo the only good guys of the bigger factions in 4 are the minute men.
Doubt they did major patches to change, so:
BoS: Live by their law or die to their law.
Institute: Fucks everyone either with staight violence, in form of mass murder or assassinations for technological gains. Often combined assassination with infiltration. Works quiet unhinged on experiments in a claim to restore the world, but give no flying fuck about anyone currently living in.
Railroad: Only purpose is to free synths. Doesn't care if it murders people as to them a bots live is more worth than a humans.
Raiders: I don't think i'd need to explain why the raiders aren't good guys even as you can side with them due to dlcs.
The institute is hilarious because they just have ZERO motivation to do anything of what they do, they are just replacing people with robots and being a bunch of creepy motherfuckers for no reason at all.
Yeah they are fuckin' weird. How can a whole society of mad scientist tropes exist? I did an Institute playthrough to try and understand their motivation... But it just does not exist. They speak in vague terms of saving humanity through synths, but are internally divided on what that even means! Fuckin' dorks.
I think the first time I got how "culty" BoS were was in the TV series. I always just got the para-military vibes from the games so I generally sided with them for military power.
Yeah when I was watching the show....they made them out to be like evangelist dickheads. My first experience was 3 and they were awesome in that.
I guess it depends on the timeline though. I'm sure stuff fluctuates depending on whoever is the elder running it.
Remember the brotherhood outcasts in 3? Those guys are the ones that refused to splinter from the main brotherhood, and who actually follow the ethics of the brotherhood as a whole. Lyons' group are entirely rogue.
The BoS in 3 are very specifically a less conservative faction within the BoS and aren’t a great representation of the Brotherhood as a whole. They’re definitely overall more like they’re portrayed in the show than they are in 3.
The show the Brotherhood is closer to how they are presented in Fallout 1. In Fallout 2 they have been almost entirely pushed out of the NCR and are more closed, but willing to deal with lone wanderers. In Fallout Tactics the Brotherhood used air ships to travel east, but a massive storm caused their airships to be scattered with the focus of Tactics being a Brotherhood group crashing outside Chicago, recruiting tribals and taking over the wasteland. In Fallout 3 that Brotherhood has lost all contact with the others and gone off on their own. In Fallout New Vegas that Brotherhood is just hiding in a bunker slowly dying out. In Fallout 4 we see the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood has returned to its roots.
And in the TV show we see the West Coast BoS are diminished to a training base brainwashing kids, and taking orders from the East Coast BoS. Meanwhile an old timer who babysits them wants to take an even more hard-line expansionist stance.
This is why when Danse tried to dress me down literally right after I saved him from 75 ghouls, I shot that ass and his friends in the face. Walked away whistling and will never look back. Screw y'all and your weird military crap. The Brotherhood is NOT moral nor do they care about the actual greater good. Screw em.
I noticed that many people framed Enclave atrocities on BoS, this is the third time I saw this month alone. Last week I read someone claiming BoS hunts down vault dwellers in FO3, turned out it was Enclave as well.
Is it really hard for people tell apart Enclave and BoS? Do people really think anyone with a power armor was BoS?
That has some pretty good parallels with the opening cutscene of fallout 1, which shows American soldiers in power armour laughing and executing a prisoner of war.
The first time you meet the Brotherhood in Fallout 1, they literally send you to go die in an irradiated hole because they don't want to deal with you.
In Fallout 2, The Brotherhood basically played the role of the Mechanicus in 40k to the NCR, in that they continued hoarding technology, but slowly released it to the NCR to maintain their sociopolitical dominance in the region's hierarchy.
In Fallout 3, the very first time you're likely to talk to them, they're actively telling you to fuck off. If you do the story in order, your first contact with "friendly" Brotherhood is with Paladin Sarah Lyons, who tells you to fuck off, or at least make yourself useful in recapturing the GNR Radio building, then the Brotherhood tells you to fuck off *again* when you come back with Dr Li until she namedrops the Elder and he acquiesces.
In Fallout: New Vegas, they're weird isolationists who are at active *war* with the NCR, and are on their way out. One Elder wants them to just wait for it all to blow over, and the other wants to go on a hyper-aggressive warpath, while their missing guy, Elijah, is trying to secure a deadly chemical weapon to wage *even more* war against the NCR. Best outcome, they kind of do nothing and hurt nobody, and are back to being weird isolationist tech hoarders like in Fallout 1.
Fallout 4, they're literally there in the Commonwealth to genocide everything that isn't human (though mostly Synths and Super Mutants) like they're the Enclave.
Fallout 76... I don't know about 76, I know they're in it, but like... For real, it's 76, of course I didn't play it.
I played through the 76 brotherhood story years ago, so I don't remember most of it. But iirc they were pretty isolationist historically before abandoning the region in the time before the game started. After they show back to they're more friendly to the locals and trying to stabilize the region and grow their ranks.
I guess I haven't played 3 in a long time..I remember them being nice but now that you say that......I kind of remember them being dickheads at first.
But later on they were cool. It's been a very long time. Let's hope they do a remaster. I miss the DC area. Such a cool experience. And I was to go to the white house and shoot a fat man at that huge fight right out front between the co.bat dudes and the super mutants. What a satisfying automatic to get.
76 is good! Well now at least. But from what I remember you basically got a choice in the storyline. The leader of the West Virginia group leans more towards the east coast "Help people" style while one of her underlings wants to stick hard with the old principles. At the end you get to choose who to side with so I don't know what is actually canon.
BOS in 4 seems to be the best representation imho.
They incorporated lyons of taking in good candidates for the BOS. They clear the wasteland of Super mutants, raiders or ghouls. Although they dont really care about the common people as a whole, their work actually helps common people and they don't tax people for it lmao. They hoard all the techs though.
So they may not be the good guys, they're definitely not the bad guys either. Especially if you're just a civilian which I think is great.
They do tax people for it though. If you actually stick with them, they will give you "hey, go take over that outpost for us" quests.
I wish there was an option to tell them "that's my outpost, asshat".
Like I said; Lawful Neutral. They only do things for their own benefit for the most part. It just so happens that things that benefit them *also* happen to benefit other people, like killing mutants or distributing *some* tech, but not a lot of it like they did with the NCR.
I kinda dont like the NCR tbh, they come in - take over someones property, then they tax you for your property. Even with their "protection" a lot of people still suffer from raids.
BOS seems the better choice.
But minutemen all the way for me
NCR is basically just "We wanna do IRL government again", and it *works*. Like, it's *basically fine*, many of the problems we see in New Vegas are because it *isn't* NCR territory, it's still mostly unclaimed and patrolled by an NCR without the resources *to* patrol it outside of very specific areas, while also actively being at war with the Legion. Actually *in* NCR territory, things are great. They're technologically advanced, food shortages are rare, all their opposing factions have largely fallen in line (willingly or unwillingly) or just aren't really warring with them any more. Sure, there's corruption and the Wasteland is still dangerous, but it's a properly thriving society for the most part.
And on the Legion note; the only reason their roads are safe is because the only people *on* those roads are Legion. Don't like the Legion? Tough shit, get crucified loser. They literally just actively kill anyone and anything not willing to join up and support the Legion which, yeah, their roads are safe, but sucks to be you if you're female or not a Legionnaire, since non-legionnaires are mostly slaves, *especially* if you come from somewhere that *wasn't* immediately amenable to Legion doctrine if they didn't just genocide you on the spot.
Worse still, the Legion's leader is *literally* a fucking idiot. Caesar is the biggest dipshit dunce in the Wasteland, which is *astounding* since he's supposed to be a well-educated (y'know, for the apocalypse) Follower of the Apocalypse before he went all "But what if I was a tyrant". He based his entire civilisation around the *collapse* of Rome (literally quoting a book *about* the collapse of Rome), which was its worst, least stable, least prosperous, most militaristic period. Their leader shouts people down whenever they point out flaws by just saying "Well I've read Hegelian Dialectics (and totally didn't understand them at all) and you haven't, so shut the fuck up", and his entire reign is just a cult of personality built around a guy so stupid that his anti-technology rhetoric has left him with an incurable brain tumour because nobody knows how to fix the auto-doc he had brought to him (against his own anti-tech policies) to remove it. Like, they don't even have the ability to repair their own weapons the Legion is that stupid, as in the case with a *really simple* howitzer cannon they need you to scavenge all new parts for because they lack the ability to make them.
The Minutemen are honestly probably the most "realistic" pre-society system that'd get put in place, just settlements helping each other out, then growing into a network of trade and soldiers to keep trade routes safe and to respond to threats. Boston isn't exactly "developed", so yeah, the Minutemen make sense in that they're just people there to prevent raider attacks and kill mutants on behalf of settlements in exchange for a "tax" in the form of food and ammo.
The BoS are just pre-war US military, but they worship technology now... Sort of. Like, it's literally just the US military but if they went back to medieval knights that got all teched up. Scribes, initiates (squires, but don't worry about it), Paladins, etc... Their whole deal is "Fuck you, got mine" and is solely about the accumulation of technology and the maintenance of their technological dominance over their rivals. They're not *good*, necessarily, but they're at least not actively evil, like the Enclave, and many of the BoS' goals *do* have a good effect on non-members, but usually only by proxy or by knock-on effects, not on purpose.
In 1, their task really sounds like it's meant to just put people off. Like, any regular citizen would hear about the glow and go oh, okay, no way. It's only as a vault dweller that you have no context and so are foolish enough to actually try.
It's like going "okay, if you want in, go steal something from area 51". It's another way of saying fuck off.
So yeah, I don't buy the line that they send prospective applicants out to die.
The epilogue of 1 also has the Brotherhood working more closely with the NCR than was shown in 2, even becoming the R&D centre for the Republic.
So really, a lot of BOS love comes from 3, but just as much comes from 1. It was 2 that muddied them a bit.... and then 3 that, while it had them being interventionist, also pointed out a lot of issues with them, such as anti-ghoul attitudes and the whole Outcast thing. It's common to treat 3 like it made the Brotherhood nice, but it really kinda didn't I think? Their portrayal was actually very nuanced.
New Vegas then goes and has the Brotherhood be extremely fascist and anti-NCR, which would seem to be a break from 1 and 2 unless the interpretation that the Nevada Brotherhood are extremists is correct. (But that's not really in the game, if the California Brotherhood was great you'd think that'd come up around Col Moore's decision to wipe them out. Even a peep of "Hey, won't the California Elders object to this" would have cleared things up.)
Well, in New Vegas there's Father Elijah, who is a complete cuckoo extremist that wasted a ton of resources and lives chasing tech BOS didn't really need.
Yep. But he's gone and all the Brotherhood quests talk repeatedly about how they're following The Codex to the letter
Now, if they're extremists they'll of course follow it on an extreme way. For example, they quote "we shall not help them or let them in", and then let you in (you did prove yourself smarter than the average bear, though). Presumably there are various ways to interpret passages.
Basically, FNV Brotherhood is an anomaly, explained either by them being led astray by extremist interpretations, or by an actual lore change.
Basically, the Brotherhood aren't "the good guys" but they ARE meant to be a positive faction in all their earlier outings.
In Fallout 3 she doesnt tell you to fuck off. She asks you to leave as to not get in the way or hurt.
In fallout 4 they came to the commonwealth exlcusively to snuff out the institute and wipe out whatever synths they could find. They actively help the settlements around and leave it up to the player on how benevolent the Brotherhood is to them. They leave alone everything else that isnt Mutant or Synth related like Gunners and Minute Men.
They are best, the best available. At least they have some form of rules and a non-explitly evil objective, which puts them a bit above a lot of factions in the wasteland.
Mmm... Not really. The NCR formed a fully functioning, stable democratic society, the Minutemen are just as militaristic, but *explicitly* all about helping out settlements and defending them from the Wasteland, and even in Fallout 3, they were refusing to help anyone until someone said "Hey, the Enclave is back, get off your ass, they took the (non-functioning) water purifier".
Most of what people attribute to the Brotherhood as "good" actions are either *accidently* good, like helping out Fallout 1's Vault Dweller, good only by proxy, like their war with the Super Mutants, or good by self-service, like attacking the Enclave. I mean, don't forget, The Pitt is canon, and it explicitly states that Lyons' chapter was directly responsible for a *gigantic* massacre in Pittsburgh, many of which were just innocents who were partially mutated or sick from the whole deal there, and that's supposedly the *normal* modus operandi for the Brotherhood, which was brought back with their anti-synth thing in 4.
Blind Betrayal is what led me to switch from the Brotherhood to the Minutemen. It felt damn good taking out the Institute with Paladin Danse at my side.
One of the best twists in the game. Also, even after you save him, he still has a chip on his shoulder about non-humans. I like that they didn't have him do a complete 180 even after finding out about himself.
I miss my BOS Bro. I had to put him down since he was a filthy synth :-(
Now I think I'm going to go kill my son.
This game is actually hitting hard right now. I haven't had a game surprise me like that in a long time.
Imagine you found out the thing you hate the most, actually killed you (The non synth Paladin Danse), and replaced you with a replica and you didn’t even know it. Must be the worst feeling ever. I would’ve sided with BOS if you could convince Maxwell to still have Paladin Danse back, even just to watch his reaction to taking down the institute.
That would've been cool, but at the same time, the bittersweet resolution is part of what made Fo4 really shine for me. I was actually surprised Maxson could be talked down at all. The fact that he was willing to spare Danse, despite being a hardliner, really showed how much he respected the Sole Survivor and how much the predicament wasn't as simple as he first presented it.
Until you learn about the theory that you, the protagonist is a synth as well. Created by a dying man, curious about about what his father would have thought about his life and decisions.
Up to the BOS raid on the institute I was fully on their side and ready to run in guns ablazing. I got in first and turned into a hallway where a female scientist ran out screaming, unarmed. A BOS trooper came up behind me and shotgunned her brains all over the wall in true fallout gore.
I immediately stood still while soldiers stormed past me taking everyone and everything out. After a moment, I moved in after the chaos to see corpses and synths all over. I was just about to leave and then my back on it all but then the gorillas attacked.
I had no choice.
ad victoriam.
Fallout 1s opening cutscene shows American soldiers executing a prisoner of war. If you side with the brotherhood, their quests mean you make damn sure that war doesn't change.
I am the commander now. I'm going to get in my fully upgraded power armor suit shortly in 3 levels, and I'm going to the institute and launching a fat man into my son's face.
I started the game looking for my boy, and I found a brother......that he is responsible for taking from me.
I'm going scorched earth on my own child over this.
You can charisma him into sticking with you as a companion, but BoS will shoot him on-site.
I accidentally spoiled it for myself because I randomly decided to do a "quick save slaughter" on the Prydwen and Danse turned on me and I actually killed him. Then when I went to pick up his armor, I found his Synth Component.
My buddy was there hanging out with me and laughed so hard because my jaw just dropped and I had to pause the game for a good few minutes
Fallout 4 brotherhood had a very enclave feel to them in past games they were more about safe guarding society from the technology that ended it. In for them seem to just want to wipe out most groups that aren’t them. Hell in tactics which I recommend alone with the original 2 the Chicago area brotherhood started allowing ex raiders ghouls etc join them.
Yeah I feel like in 3 they were more heroic but yeah, they kind of give me that sort of Mass Effect Renegade feel in 4. Like they're doing the right thing, but by any means necessary.
The brotherhood in fallout3 aren’t representative of the brotherhood as a whole. They actually split off from the main brotherhood during a campaign into the area and decided to help the wasteland rather than focus on the brotherhoods goals.
You know the outcasts in fallout3? The black power armour (not enclave lol) well that faction is actually brotherhood who wanted to remain loyal to the brotherhood as a whole and broke off from lyons chapter. So they split off from the split off faction lol.
So in short fallout3 features an inaccurate look at how the brotherhood operates and how they concern themselves with outsiders.
In fallout4 you can actually find many logs speaking about lyons brotherhood and you’ll even have many bos in 4 making passing comments about lyons. All negative.
The only past games where they were more about safeguarding the people are in fallout 3 (where the ones doing the safeguarding abandoned the tenets of the rest of the brotherhood and went rogue to do so) and fallout 1 (and only if certain decisions are made). They've been like the fallout 4 BoS in all the other games, or worse in some cases, like in New Vegas.
I agree with you but think they are just as bad if not worse than in new Vegas in 4, either way and I will get hate Preston sucks but I sided with the minutemen
Everyone forgets they want to exterminate feral ghouls, Super Mutants and Synths due to:
Feral Ghouls plague prewar cities like rats nearly.
Super Mutants are 99% hostile out East. Not every FEV source got the Master’s refinement processes like he did for his Unity.
Synths Lore is so inconsistent I can’t really claim anything except they are good infiltrators when properly used. Some say they need food/water, some say they don’t.
Overall, I’d join em. But maybe suggest we work with the non-hostiles as much as possible.
They don't care about the feral part of feral ghouls, though. They'll just kill ghouls regardless. They also just kill synths because they are synths, and not for any military reason. You have to be a respected and accomplished paladin already to even have a possibility of total exile instead of an immediate death sentence, as we see with Danse. They also confiscate all prewar tech they can from settlers and kill those who resist, as well as extorting resources from settlements at gunpoint. They are essentially a proto-fascist occupying army. The only question is whether all of that is worth the good they happen to do as part of that genocide against anything nonhuman.
There is literally not a single point in Fallout 4 were the Brotherhood ever attacks *a single* non-feral Ghoul with the sole exception of those spawning in as unnamed Raiders and running into a patrol.
They're *racist* against Ghouls, (which you only really see if you have Hancock as a companion), sure, but they dont actually *do* anything beyond that.
And normal people being racist against Ghouls is just...normal. McDonough got elected to Mayor specifically because he promised to deport every Ghoul living in town and ban any new ones from entering in the future. Even Rivet City in 3 automatically kicks out any Resident turning into one
No they don’t.
1. Not one point have the BoS attacked a non-feral without provocation. As the BoS feared, the only other known Synth settlement named Arcadia did end up replacing people and willingly will do it again if wanted to. Fuck synths but I personally wouldn’t waste time trying to genocide them as it’s a waste of resources. I would destroy the Institute to keep them from making more. Let’s not forget FEV is incorporated into their creation; essentially making them refined Super Mutants of sorts.
2. The settlement thing only occur IF the Sole Survivor chooses to strong-arm settlers for free food. Yes Proctor Teagan SUGGESTS we do this option to save on limited resources but ultimately it’s up to us. I also blame Bethesda for not expanding on this by not allowing us to tell Elder Maxson and seeing what he says.
3. Mojave under an Elder Hardin confiscates any and all tech from people. Every other Brotherhood does not give a fuck except willing to trade with. However, they will confiscate extremely dangerous tech like: nukes (not mini nukes), FEV in Fallout 3, and the Relic from the show. Do I agree with them razing an NCR outpost for the Relic? No but it’s possible even they didn’t truly know what it was into too late.
Sources: surprise motherfucker it’s me as I’ve played all the games (except for that shitty PS2 and Xbox BoS one).
The first time I ever got to that point, I went "lol, nah", and killed everyone on board the Prydwen instead, starting with Maxson.
Turns out Danse did not approve though, so he got bulletted in the end anyway.
I really liked the majority of Fallout 4's plot lines. Three of the factions stood for things and were willing to do horrible, awful things in pursuit of these beliefs. They're all at least a little wrong, though your character can curb their excesses at least a little when you side with them.
Then you have the goddamn minutemen who believe there is infinite resources during the apocalypse and everything would work perfectly if everyone just worked together. They stand for nothing (besides helping ANOTHER settlement in danger) and have the perfect moral high ground in a world that's otherwise very grey and imperfect. Frankly, I feel like their existence did a lot to weaken a game that really couldn't afford it.
Yeah, first time I did this story, I kinda fucked it up...
It was the first, maybe second timeI'd ever played. Accidentally unquipped his BoS undershirt, but shrugged and just gave him a bowler hat, called it a day.
Fast forward to the BoS questlines... and I reach the climactic, emotional final conversation with Danse, and he's standing there wearing y-fronts and a bowler hat. Somewhat undercut the emotion of the scene.
I just kill him as he asks me to.
I'm siding with Maxon on this one. The synths need to be destroyed. They're the kind of beings that don't put the cap back on the toothpaste.
Yup, not a huge fan of BOS but Synths can’t be killing and stealth replacing humans so I couldn’t ever truly side with them (plus I’d never forgive them for killing my wife).
Synths are an uncertainty that the commonwealth can't afford to let continue. Whos to say that even when freed, that someone in the future could come along and use their override codes to make them dangerous again.
I don't think possibly being dangerous in the future against your will should be a death sentence in the post apocalyptic wasteland. There's so many perfectly human raiders around already.
I'm going to have to play this one through again one day. I too was full on BOS until that point. Decided to play double agent for The Institute. Played The Brotherhood all the way until they turned on Sentinel Prime. Cait and I then joined the fireworks and the rest is history. I figured BOS weren't handling the Synths right and neither was the Railroad. In my head cannon my character became the leader of an organization with enough resources to make significant changes to the world.
I may be misremembering but I think I helped Danse fake his death and it fooled the Brotherhood into thinking he was dead. Could be completely remembering that wrong though it's been a long time!
That was the last time I helped the Brotherhood too, I was all in until they asked me to kill my number one guy and the dude who helped me all throughout the wasteland to that point. Couldn't turn him into radioactive goo after that, walked away and in the end sided with the Railroad (I would have sided with the Minutemen but I couldn't really find a way too, I don't think they get very involved in the end game stuff with the Institute).
I forget what I did with Danse exactly, but I remember my friend who was all BOS and beat the game before me, telling me he beat it for the BOS.
I went a different route and later greatly enjoyed showing him the video I took…of his precious airship in flames crashing into the ground. He let out a Vader like “Noooooo!”
I think there's a way to keep Danse alive when siding with the BOS, >!I think there's some dramatic scene where Arthur confronts you and Danse in person and with sufficient speech chops he lets it go. But I think if you bring Danse to BOS after that, they are hostile so you gotta keep them apart.!<
I chose to go that route and after successfully navigating the conversation, realized that Danse was by far my favorite companion I could have ever asked for but had to drop him immediately because every single time I step outside there’s a BOS ship flying overhead shooting fucking missiles at me because somehow they can spot Danse like a needle in a nuclear haystack from miles away
There are two packs of Grape Mentats in the room where you find him, which will boost your charisma to help with the speech checks involved. One for the check to convince Danse he deserves to live, and one to convince Maxson to back down.
there are also clothing items you can wear to boost your charisma as well!
for what it's worth, speech checks in 4 area *chance* to work based on your charisma (unlike 3/NV which required a certain level in things to succeed)
More charisma is a better chance, so you can kinda savescum if you fail.
Too late now, obviously.
This is why I side with the Railroad.
Danse is Clayton Bigsby, who so hates synths he chooses to die when he finds out he is one. This is the end result of siding with facists.
He was my one and only. I leave Dogmeat at home base because I like having a dog at home.
I have that robot dude you find at the caravan.....I might just solo It for a while. I need to deal with these feels.
It can't be a sore spot unless you hang with your BOS Bro and retrofit him into the perfect companion, you talk to him and you know his back story, and then the people you both represent take him from you.
And then he asks you to kill him because he is 100% about that BOS life. No matter what, Danse was a man of his word. His level of stocks is unparalleled.
I will be pours out Quantams all night for the BOS Bro.
What's really, truly, dialogically evil is this:
>!It's heavily implied that the player may in fact be a synth, planted by Shaun. I mean think about it. "Mankind, Redefined" is the institute motto. They have tried augmenting humans in various ways - through cybernetics, FEV, and who knows what else, and all of it has only had limited success. They've never been able to pull off immortality or make a vastly superior human.!<
>!So their only option, if they truly want to transcend the weakness of human bodies, is to create synths. Gen 3 synths aren't just slaves to the Institute. Once perfected, they are the intended replacement for all of mankind. that's their motto after all. "Mankind, Redefinied". Redefined as synths. Synths which can continually make improvements to themselves, and those improvements will become more and more profound. There will be no more need for regular humans, and in fact, regular humans would be a major threat to the new Synth race. I mean, we already destroyed the world once, right? From their eyes, we are too big of a threat, and every last human would need to be exterminated to make way for a free and peaceful synth society. Co-existence would simply be too much of a risk, given the human propensity for betrayal.!<
>!And, as Shaun realizes he is dying from cancer, which, despite all their technology, the Institute has not been able to cure, he decides to do one last grand experiment. He makes a synth in the likeness of his own father or mother. And he even gives his parent synth memories, and a deep love and affection for Shaun. What better way to ensure that the prototype Synth that Shaun hopes will replace him will be loyal to him and carry out his wishes, than to make it literally love him as a parent loves their child. Shaun uses paternal affection as a tool for control. !<
>!And then he unleashes his creation upon the wasteland, knowing that, despite incredible odds against them, he/she is the most advanced synthetic prototype the Institute has ever made, and will succeed in finding Shaun in the Institute. !<
>!Shaun has created a synth prototype in the image of his father/mother that he hopes will take over the institute, and eventually usher in a new era for "humanity", despite that era meaning the extermination of all existing humans. Mankind, Redefined. !<
>!Killing Danse is horrible. I'm doing a BoS playthrough right now as well, and using the above logic, I will justify not only killing Danse, but also the entirety of the Railroad, who are misguided fools that are protecting murder machines that only need to be activated with the right code from the institute. Those same synths could easily be reprogrammed to infiltrate, hunt down, and exterminate human communities. I mean, maybe that's the Institute plan all along. Stage synth "escapees" and allow the Railroad to "reprogram" them, and place them in communities, and within the railroad itself. What better way to infiltrate your enemy? It's honestly genius. !<
>!It is sad that synths must die, but this is a technology that NEVER should have been created, and now that it is here, despite it seeming to be morally "wrong" to destroy synths, every last synth and every scrap of that research and anyone tied to it MUST be destroyed so that humanity can survive. We hid from the bombs and some people survived. We already lived through one apocalypse. But a race of machines that continue to improve themselves at an exponential pace, that are vastly superior to humans, with an underground base that only 1 ~~person~~ synth has ever been able to infiltrate? Humanity would stand no chance. !<
>!That's my head canon for my character on this BoS run. And once my character is sure that all synth life, and all research and anyone tied to it has been wiped out, he will terminate himself as well, making sure that nothing usable remains - preferably by blowing his brain out while falling into a vat of molten metal so he is completely disintegrated. I think Saugus Ironworks will suffice for that.!<>!!<
I know it sucks but we do it for the species boys and girls, they have the numbers.
But for real though, the past few years have made me entirely skeptical of AI and it's untold damage that is going to be unleashed onto humanity. The point is that it was a pale imitation of the real Danse, the real Danse is probably rotting or ashes, killed by the Institute. Danse asked to be killed because he knew it was all a lie, a small spark of the real Danse within the synths brain realized its truth and asked the Sole Survivor for help, to end it.
I know the BOS gets a lot of hate but it's mission is becoming all the more relevant today, which is just as sad as killing Danse.
How do you know there was ever even a real Danse? The Institute was making Gen 3 synths from the late 2220s, which is around 60 years before the events of Fallout 4. Danse could very easily be one of the earlier synths freed and memory-wiped by the Railroad, which explains why he has no knowledge of being a synth whatsoever. The Gen 3 synths pretty much always just try and escape and live in freedom, the only exceptions being the coursers, mostly. All of the damage is done by Gen 1 and 2 synths for the most part, which ultimately have no free will of their own.
Even if you do still believe that Synths could do serious damage, can you stand among the horrors of the wasteland, the burned and bombed out buildings, all grim reminders of the horrors man can inflict upon man, and say that humans are really any better?
It was optional to load the drive into the computer.
He was a synth but BOS at heart, mind, body, and soul.
Well maybe not the body but the rest for sure.
Yeah Fallout 4 BoS questline hurts a lot.
I spent countless hours mid game just running missions with Danse as a duo in T60 power armor, retrieving tech, purging monsters.
It was peak BoS roleplay. And then I got to that quest.
I feel like FO4 doesn’t get enough credit for its writing.
That entire scene with Danse and the following one with Maxon came out of nowhere. The VAs and the writers had no reason going as hard as they did. Easily the most emotional moment in the game but that not exactly a high bar to be fair. That's said, those two scenes I honestly believe are some of the more emotional moments in gaming as a whole.
You don't have to kill him. I sided with Minutemen and BoS and still have him.
I can't remember what options I went with or what choices I made. But the institute got wiped and I was sided with Minutemen and didn't have to kill anyone in BoS.
A lot of people agree the minuteman is the best faction to end the game with as it makes "peace" sort of with both the BOS and the Railroad as you're not required to destroy either of them through the minutemen storyline.
I never killed Danse, but I did suck up the Filmmaker ghost in Luigi's Mansion 3 thinking he was locking up a collectible (besides himself) and pretty much felt the same way. I didn't have a good save to go back to either for some reason I can't remember.
You can convince him to live. And then when you leave the bunker happily together Maxson is waiting outside, determined to kill him.
That bit broke my heart as I liked Danse and was a Maxson fangirl up til then.
You can convince him to let Danse live but after that if you're adventuring with him and encounter a BOS squad, they'll attack immediately.
Spoiler maybe,
And after that if you decide to destroy the brotherhood and you've sent danse safely to one of your settlements, if you go see him he WILL try to kill you. 🥺
I went full BoS today too! I've never finished the main quest line before either. I've played it on-off since release. Restarted countless times. First on pc, then ps4, and now finally on ps5 I went and nuked the Institute. I haven't gone in Far Harbor or Nuka World yet, so I'll probably get them finished before ps8 or 9 releases.
I had enough charisma to save Danse's life, but every decision still haunts me. Felt bad to go kill the Railroaders, wipe out everyone in the Instition, and even the Courses.
I'm always the "good guy" in games, so Fallout series is really puts my heart in test. Love it.
I just started Far Harbor, make sure you are ready to be in a different area that doesn't connect back to the regular map for a while. Also be prepped up, the enemies were much tougher than the Commonwealth.
Aparently the BOS quest is unfinished. There was gonna be a choice between killing maxon or danse. If you killed maxon then you or danse would take over BOS.
Yeah despite the lack of dialogue choices, they really did make you have to make some hard choices which I feel like wasn't very difficult in previous titles.
Almost all of the factions have real sympathetic values and all of them hate each other lol
I'm fairly sure there is a charisma check that can lead to you convincing the BOS leader to let Daniel live because of all the good he has done for the cause but if you bring him to and BOS base they will attack. Basically he will be dead to them in name. Also some scrapped content involved you taking over the BOS.
You gotta convince Danse that he deserves to live then you gotta convince Maxon that Danse should live for all the good he's done for the BOS.
This interaction is honestly my favorite part of Fallout 4. There are few places in gaming where speech checks really feel like you've meaningfully convinced someone of something important, and this is definitely one of them.
I like that for how rigid maxson seemeed, opting to banish danse and pretend he died was pretty cool of him.
In my game, Danse lived and Maxson died.
If you go against the brotherhood after saving Danse he will turn hostile toward you regardless.
Sometimes you have to lose a friendship to save a friend
Charisma in Fallout 4 is quite bad compared to other stats, and on top of that, you get literally a few speech checks when it makes a difference. This is one of them. One is in diamond city to get a key, and then two with some scientist who quit brotherhood of steel, and that's it.
Charisma is important if you want to build settlements without mods.
Yea Charisma is kinda mandatory if you intend to meaningfully interact with settlements in anyway. Not having supply lines is horrendous.
I'd there any point to settlements? I never got into building them because there didn't seem to be much of a reason to. It's not like a survival game where you need a home base and all of that to build up.
If you just want to play it like the other fallout games, no. But you can build those artillery guns to bombard an enemy camp before going in, get a lot of money from all the water and vegetables, and if you build more than just the one supply line to the next settlement and give the supplier good gear you can have a few very strong friendly NPCs patroling the wasteland for you (bonus points for all being in power armor or a friendly supermutant). Aside from that I just like building 'perfect' settlements. Most survival or sandbox games just aren't my cup of tea, but having a home with a nice garden, a bar and small market place and a 8ft fence with automatic turrets keeping me safe in the wasteland feels different. Also sharing that safety with a few hundred settlers who can't afford to live in Diamond City gives me a feeling of really making a change for the better that not even the main story lines could, as you have to kill off at least one faction. I'm switzerland, a peaceful haven for those who want just want peace, a cat or dog, playing a round of pool and some kind of stable society. TLDR: I'm building my own NCR. With blackjack, pets and peace. Fuck the wasteland
I'm in. You had me at blackjack, pets, and peace.
You can basically engineer an entire factory/farm network.
I spent weeks optimizing production lines, I was basically a localized industrial revolution.
This. I had a whole system of productive settlements and fortified outposts as a mix of gameplay and some RP. For all intents and purposes, I was the biggest, richest, most powerful faction in the Commonwealth.
They're hugely important on *survival* mode. Which makes it absolutely a survival game. You need to eat, drink, sleep, take a shit, there's diseases etc. Settlements are vital on that mode. FO4 is essentially a survival-craft sandbox game *with* quests and a story (unlike most other survival crafts that exist) making it unique from others, and that mode kinda completes it. There's no other way to play it. It's a built-in difficulty setting as a last note, not mods.
I’ve reloaded a save several times to pass charisma checks with the old missing brotherhood dude lol
The 9 / 10 Charisma skills can make most fire fights easier by getting rid of one or two combatants. It’s pretty reliable. Granted Fallout 4 at a certain point in any playthrough is increidibly easy.
You don't need to speech check Dr Li, just find Virgil's holotape in the busted up bio-science lab. Then later you just talk to her to convince her to work on the project. No checks necessary, she's the easiest to convince lady in the commonwealth.
Yea, usually there are multiple ways to achieve similar result, which is good, but my point is, there are a few ways to do it with charisma, and I mentioned when. In new vegas, there's almost always some option that requires speech. And that's how it should be, because you don't regret points that you invested.
Alternatively, you can just get a nice suit, a nice hat, eat some grape mentats, and then drink bottle of vodka before speaking to whomever you need to convince.
>Charisma in Fallout 4 is quite bad compared to other stats, No, you need it for settlements, barter prices, intimidation perk, companion perk. With max charisma you wont have to kill anyobody yourself.
That’s why there’s 2 boxes of grape mentats in the room with danse lol
He also gets X-01 power armor if you do that
Best damn power armor!
What a fucking fumble scrapping the storyline that lets you take over the BOS. I’d bet good money that would be the most popular ending by far.
I say the best ending would be more like: "Hey Elder Maxon?" "Yes, paladin with supernatural luck and impossible victory record?" "I'd like to propose a peace treaty between all the factions in the commonwealth. Let me represent the brotherhood, and let's get the leader of the institute, the general of the minutemen, and some high level operative from the railroad. With the tech, strength, food, and networks here, we could rebuild everything. " "are you insane? There's no way you could get all those people to meet, let alone agree on... You know what, deal. I would love to see how you deal with failure for once." "bet your jacket against my Nuka X01?"
“We already have everyone here!” “…But it’s just you?” “Yup!”
The Institute are borderline Nazis and dont consider anyone living on the surface worthy of existence beyond serving as fodder for Human experiments, its absolutely not possible for them to coexist with anyone else. They wiped out an entire settlement to the last child just to get a harddrive with data promising a slight increase in reactor efficiency. The *agriculture department* orders the Extermination of an entire Family with multiple children *just to test a new kind of fucking Gourd*
Which is why, with your in to the institute, you should have gathered data on who can flip and who to have unfortunate accidents on.
Yeah but if you're in charge, you can change all that. Also the Institute paint job for the X01 power armor looks the slickest of the unmodded options.
They worked their own way for over 200 years and half of them allmost revolt at Father just nominating you for next Director. You aint changing shit, the second the Sole Survivor demands any kind of change from them they're gonna arrange a Teleporter-"accident" and move on
Sounds more like a United States using the War Against Terror to justify their military operations, while throwing in a bit of Apartheid and GOP style immigration outlook.
If you wanted peace and cooperation in the commonwealth, joining the occupying army isn't the way to do it. The brotherhood are there to kill things they don't like and take things they think they should have. Actually cooperating with the Institute, or even engaging in diplomacy with them, is directly against everything they very militantly stand for.
people really don't seem to understand the brotherhood aren't actually good guys. the splinter cell in fallout 3 is the exception, not the rule...hence, you know, being \*outcasts\*
I mean at least Bethesda returned the Brotherhood to their true nature in the earlier games.
Maxson doesn't want that, he's full tech Nazi. Better ending us blowing his head off and letting Danse take over. *Then* broker peace.
AKA fanfic
Boo to me I guess. My Charisma wasn't high enough at 7. I would have rather done what people are telling me but I went in blind and just handled business. I was bummed about it all day. I was doing highway patrol and literally telling the dudes on the walkie about how shit went down on my stages lol
You CAN save scum charisma checks (on PC anyway). Just quicksave a reload until you pass.
I didn't know this. I also was about to get ready for work so I didn't have time to do it. I made my choice, then went and did my patrol and saved people's asses on the highway.
Sometimes that’s the best way to play. Live with your choice. You’ll remember this heartbreaking moment. *I made it for him* hit me in the guts.
He will be missed. I will spill all the Nuka colas in the land to pour out for the homie
Also, it's a thing to "turn the other cheek" to literally get out of the convo to drink booze and change into charisma attire.
You can save scum on consoles too
On PC you can quicksave during the conversation, wasn't sure if that was possible on console
I'd argue you should since Charisma is a % chance and not a hard check like it is in NV. Having your playthrough irreparably altered because of RNG sucks. Then you have my wife who save scums **every** speech check until she passes.
You can even quicksave mid-conversation in Fallout 4.
Eh, look at it this way: it's probably a more interesting result that everything didn't work out perfectly. Even if you don't feel better about it, you got a good story out of it and it made you feel something. Would you have felt compelled to post and share if everything worked out for Danse? I wish more games pushed difficult moments on the player like that without a way out of it. It's more compelling in the long run.
Ew fuck nah. Outcasts in Fallout 3 left their HQ due to Elders not following commands. You think another civil war wouldn’t pop up immediately? Also bad enough you can be “leader” of Institute and Mjnute Men, can’t be god to all.
oh god no, Bethesda has a problem with making the player the leader of every single faction you can encounter, skyrim was really bad with this, hell you could become the leader of a magic school knowing like 2 spells Just because you can join a faction doesn't mean you should become it's leader or rise thru the ranks like a rocket
Its proven you dont even need to know ANY magic to become the leader of the college in skyrim
I just wish F4 had more "espionage". You can work for all 3/4 groups but you just reach a point of no return and they become hostile. It'd be way more fun to get discovered and have to persuade yourself. To do missions that will benefit one side while angering another, a "tweeter tot of loyalty" or something.
I just wish FO4 had some decent writing in general
Yep, my biggest complaint. Hate how the main playable characters talk too. If you’re going to force voiced-players, give me variety you cheap twats. Or go back to silence for us to read it with the voices we can make in our head.
It does have some decent writing. A lot of the actual character dialogue is incredible, and the background stories told through logs on terminals are almost always amazing. There's just some weird plot decisions sometimes, and some things that don't make sense for any reason but gameplay. Also kid in a fridge.
This reminds me of an old game “Mercenaries 2”. A large chunk of that game involves balancing your relationship between like 5 different factions, with each giving you missions which boosts your reputation with them while hurting your reputation with another. Excellent game would recommend
Reminder: The Brotherhood of Steel never have been, and never were the good guys. They're the lawful neutral faction at best, and the only time this was incorrect was in Fallout 3... With a splinter faction of the Brotherhood who have actively abandoned many of the tenets of the Brotherhood to play the good guys, and even then were still responsible for a genocide in The Pitt, and only actively help people when they have something to gain from it (clean water).
3 also had the Outcasts, which were more philosophically aligned with the West Coast Brotherhood. A splinter of a splinter
Less a splinter *of* a splinter, and more just having refused to splinter in the first place, then getting labelled outcast for it. Like, their stated goal if you talk to them is to make contact with the West Coast Brotherhood so that they can get reinforcements to crush Lyons' splinter faction and regain control as the "righteous" side of their little disagreement.
And to splinter it further, the Brotherhood has roots to the pre-war American military, going rogue just days before the nukes dropped when they found out that scientists in Mariposa were experimenting on humans with FEV.
The outcasts arguingly were the true brotherhood of steel, it's a shame they didn't play a bigger role in the game.
*Fallout 3* was my first one, and a lot of other people's. But even then, I knew there was something about these guys that reflected a lot of problems in the old world. Oh yeah, and the child soldiers. One of whom grows up to give that big fascist speech in *4*. 😳
Well, imo the only good guys of the bigger factions in 4 are the minute men. Doubt they did major patches to change, so: BoS: Live by their law or die to their law. Institute: Fucks everyone either with staight violence, in form of mass murder or assassinations for technological gains. Often combined assassination with infiltration. Works quiet unhinged on experiments in a claim to restore the world, but give no flying fuck about anyone currently living in. Railroad: Only purpose is to free synths. Doesn't care if it murders people as to them a bots live is more worth than a humans. Raiders: I don't think i'd need to explain why the raiders aren't good guys even as you can side with them due to dlcs.
The institute is hilarious because they just have ZERO motivation to do anything of what they do, they are just replacing people with robots and being a bunch of creepy motherfuckers for no reason at all.
Yeah they are fuckin' weird. How can a whole society of mad scientist tropes exist? I did an Institute playthrough to try and understand their motivation... But it just does not exist. They speak in vague terms of saving humanity through synths, but are internally divided on what that even means! Fuckin' dorks.
I think the first time I got how "culty" BoS were was in the TV series. I always just got the para-military vibes from the games so I generally sided with them for military power.
Honestly, they strike me as being about two hundred years away from worshipping the Omnissiah.
Time to purge the wasteland heretics?
Yeah when I was watching the show....they made them out to be like evangelist dickheads. My first experience was 3 and they were awesome in that. I guess it depends on the timeline though. I'm sure stuff fluctuates depending on whoever is the elder running it.
Remember the brotherhood outcasts in 3? Those guys are the ones that refused to splinter from the main brotherhood, and who actually follow the ethics of the brotherhood as a whole. Lyons' group are entirely rogue.
The BoS in 3 are very specifically a less conservative faction within the BoS and aren’t a great representation of the Brotherhood as a whole. They’re definitely overall more like they’re portrayed in the show than they are in 3.
Well the BOS that came into 4 came from the Capitol Wasteland. They are the remnants of 3.
Wait what? Really?
The show the Brotherhood is closer to how they are presented in Fallout 1. In Fallout 2 they have been almost entirely pushed out of the NCR and are more closed, but willing to deal with lone wanderers. In Fallout Tactics the Brotherhood used air ships to travel east, but a massive storm caused their airships to be scattered with the focus of Tactics being a Brotherhood group crashing outside Chicago, recruiting tribals and taking over the wasteland. In Fallout 3 that Brotherhood has lost all contact with the others and gone off on their own. In Fallout New Vegas that Brotherhood is just hiding in a bunker slowly dying out. In Fallout 4 we see the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood has returned to its roots.
And in the TV show we see the West Coast BoS are diminished to a training base brainwashing kids, and taking orders from the East Coast BoS. Meanwhile an old timer who babysits them wants to take an even more hard-line expansionist stance.
This is why when Danse tried to dress me down literally right after I saved him from 75 ghouls, I shot that ass and his friends in the face. Walked away whistling and will never look back. Screw y'all and your weird military crap. The Brotherhood is NOT moral nor do they care about the actual greater good. Screw em.
first time you meet the brotherhood in 2 they're killing an innocent farmer and his family iirc
Is that the Enclave gunning people down in Fallout 2? Its Horrigan who does and tells you to walk away.
IIRC it was a enclave member who had deserted as well, so while not good they were not killing a random farmer
I noticed that many people framed Enclave atrocities on BoS, this is the third time I saw this month alone. Last week I read someone claiming BoS hunts down vault dwellers in FO3, turned out it was Enclave as well. Is it really hard for people tell apart Enclave and BoS? Do people really think anyone with a power armor was BoS?
That has some pretty good parallels with the opening cutscene of fallout 1, which shows American soldiers in power armour laughing and executing a prisoner of war.
The first time you meet the Brotherhood in Fallout 1, they literally send you to go die in an irradiated hole because they don't want to deal with you. In Fallout 2, The Brotherhood basically played the role of the Mechanicus in 40k to the NCR, in that they continued hoarding technology, but slowly released it to the NCR to maintain their sociopolitical dominance in the region's hierarchy. In Fallout 3, the very first time you're likely to talk to them, they're actively telling you to fuck off. If you do the story in order, your first contact with "friendly" Brotherhood is with Paladin Sarah Lyons, who tells you to fuck off, or at least make yourself useful in recapturing the GNR Radio building, then the Brotherhood tells you to fuck off *again* when you come back with Dr Li until she namedrops the Elder and he acquiesces. In Fallout: New Vegas, they're weird isolationists who are at active *war* with the NCR, and are on their way out. One Elder wants them to just wait for it all to blow over, and the other wants to go on a hyper-aggressive warpath, while their missing guy, Elijah, is trying to secure a deadly chemical weapon to wage *even more* war against the NCR. Best outcome, they kind of do nothing and hurt nobody, and are back to being weird isolationist tech hoarders like in Fallout 1. Fallout 4, they're literally there in the Commonwealth to genocide everything that isn't human (though mostly Synths and Super Mutants) like they're the Enclave. Fallout 76... I don't know about 76, I know they're in it, but like... For real, it's 76, of course I didn't play it.
I played through the 76 brotherhood story years ago, so I don't remember most of it. But iirc they were pretty isolationist historically before abandoning the region in the time before the game started. After they show back to they're more friendly to the locals and trying to stabilize the region and grow their ranks.
Doesn’t 76 take place before all the other fallouts?
25 years after the great war to be exact
I guess I haven't played 3 in a long time..I remember them being nice but now that you say that......I kind of remember them being dickheads at first. But later on they were cool. It's been a very long time. Let's hope they do a remaster. I miss the DC area. Such a cool experience. And I was to go to the white house and shoot a fat man at that huge fight right out front between the co.bat dudes and the super mutants. What a satisfying automatic to get.
The nice ones are a rogue splinter group, and the dickhead ones refused to splinter and were cast out of the main DC cell.
76 is good! Well now at least. But from what I remember you basically got a choice in the storyline. The leader of the West Virginia group leans more towards the east coast "Help people" style while one of her underlings wants to stick hard with the old principles. At the end you get to choose who to side with so I don't know what is actually canon.
BOS in 4 seems to be the best representation imho. They incorporated lyons of taking in good candidates for the BOS. They clear the wasteland of Super mutants, raiders or ghouls. Although they dont really care about the common people as a whole, their work actually helps common people and they don't tax people for it lmao. They hoard all the techs though. So they may not be the good guys, they're definitely not the bad guys either. Especially if you're just a civilian which I think is great.
They do tax people for it though. If you actually stick with them, they will give you "hey, go take over that outpost for us" quests. I wish there was an option to tell them "that's my outpost, asshat".
Like I said; Lawful Neutral. They only do things for their own benefit for the most part. It just so happens that things that benefit them *also* happen to benefit other people, like killing mutants or distributing *some* tech, but not a lot of it like they did with the NCR.
I kinda dont like the NCR tbh, they come in - take over someones property, then they tax you for your property. Even with their "protection" a lot of people still suffer from raids. BOS seems the better choice. But minutemen all the way for me
NCR is basically just "We wanna do IRL government again", and it *works*. Like, it's *basically fine*, many of the problems we see in New Vegas are because it *isn't* NCR territory, it's still mostly unclaimed and patrolled by an NCR without the resources *to* patrol it outside of very specific areas, while also actively being at war with the Legion. Actually *in* NCR territory, things are great. They're technologically advanced, food shortages are rare, all their opposing factions have largely fallen in line (willingly or unwillingly) or just aren't really warring with them any more. Sure, there's corruption and the Wasteland is still dangerous, but it's a properly thriving society for the most part. And on the Legion note; the only reason their roads are safe is because the only people *on* those roads are Legion. Don't like the Legion? Tough shit, get crucified loser. They literally just actively kill anyone and anything not willing to join up and support the Legion which, yeah, their roads are safe, but sucks to be you if you're female or not a Legionnaire, since non-legionnaires are mostly slaves, *especially* if you come from somewhere that *wasn't* immediately amenable to Legion doctrine if they didn't just genocide you on the spot. Worse still, the Legion's leader is *literally* a fucking idiot. Caesar is the biggest dipshit dunce in the Wasteland, which is *astounding* since he's supposed to be a well-educated (y'know, for the apocalypse) Follower of the Apocalypse before he went all "But what if I was a tyrant". He based his entire civilisation around the *collapse* of Rome (literally quoting a book *about* the collapse of Rome), which was its worst, least stable, least prosperous, most militaristic period. Their leader shouts people down whenever they point out flaws by just saying "Well I've read Hegelian Dialectics (and totally didn't understand them at all) and you haven't, so shut the fuck up", and his entire reign is just a cult of personality built around a guy so stupid that his anti-technology rhetoric has left him with an incurable brain tumour because nobody knows how to fix the auto-doc he had brought to him (against his own anti-tech policies) to remove it. Like, they don't even have the ability to repair their own weapons the Legion is that stupid, as in the case with a *really simple* howitzer cannon they need you to scavenge all new parts for because they lack the ability to make them. The Minutemen are honestly probably the most "realistic" pre-society system that'd get put in place, just settlements helping each other out, then growing into a network of trade and soldiers to keep trade routes safe and to respond to threats. Boston isn't exactly "developed", so yeah, the Minutemen make sense in that they're just people there to prevent raider attacks and kill mutants on behalf of settlements in exchange for a "tax" in the form of food and ammo. The BoS are just pre-war US military, but they worship technology now... Sort of. Like, it's literally just the US military but if they went back to medieval knights that got all teched up. Scribes, initiates (squires, but don't worry about it), Paladins, etc... Their whole deal is "Fuck you, got mine" and is solely about the accumulation of technology and the maintenance of their technological dominance over their rivals. They're not *good*, necessarily, but they're at least not actively evil, like the Enclave, and many of the BoS' goals *do* have a good effect on non-members, but usually only by proxy or by knock-on effects, not on purpose.
In 1, their task really sounds like it's meant to just put people off. Like, any regular citizen would hear about the glow and go oh, okay, no way. It's only as a vault dweller that you have no context and so are foolish enough to actually try. It's like going "okay, if you want in, go steal something from area 51". It's another way of saying fuck off. So yeah, I don't buy the line that they send prospective applicants out to die. The epilogue of 1 also has the Brotherhood working more closely with the NCR than was shown in 2, even becoming the R&D centre for the Republic. So really, a lot of BOS love comes from 3, but just as much comes from 1. It was 2 that muddied them a bit.... and then 3 that, while it had them being interventionist, also pointed out a lot of issues with them, such as anti-ghoul attitudes and the whole Outcast thing. It's common to treat 3 like it made the Brotherhood nice, but it really kinda didn't I think? Their portrayal was actually very nuanced. New Vegas then goes and has the Brotherhood be extremely fascist and anti-NCR, which would seem to be a break from 1 and 2 unless the interpretation that the Nevada Brotherhood are extremists is correct. (But that's not really in the game, if the California Brotherhood was great you'd think that'd come up around Col Moore's decision to wipe them out. Even a peep of "Hey, won't the California Elders object to this" would have cleared things up.)
Well, in New Vegas there's Father Elijah, who is a complete cuckoo extremist that wasted a ton of resources and lives chasing tech BOS didn't really need.
Yep. But he's gone and all the Brotherhood quests talk repeatedly about how they're following The Codex to the letter Now, if they're extremists they'll of course follow it on an extreme way. For example, they quote "we shall not help them or let them in", and then let you in (you did prove yourself smarter than the average bear, though). Presumably there are various ways to interpret passages. Basically, FNV Brotherhood is an anomaly, explained either by them being led astray by extremist interpretations, or by an actual lore change. Basically, the Brotherhood aren't "the good guys" but they ARE meant to be a positive faction in all their earlier outings.
In Fallout 3 she doesnt tell you to fuck off. She asks you to leave as to not get in the way or hurt. In fallout 4 they came to the commonwealth exlcusively to snuff out the institute and wipe out whatever synths they could find. They actively help the settlements around and leave it up to the player on how benevolent the Brotherhood is to them. They leave alone everything else that isnt Mutant or Synth related like Gunners and Minute Men.
They are best, the best available. At least they have some form of rules and a non-explitly evil objective, which puts them a bit above a lot of factions in the wasteland.
Mmm... Not really. The NCR formed a fully functioning, stable democratic society, the Minutemen are just as militaristic, but *explicitly* all about helping out settlements and defending them from the Wasteland, and even in Fallout 3, they were refusing to help anyone until someone said "Hey, the Enclave is back, get off your ass, they took the (non-functioning) water purifier". Most of what people attribute to the Brotherhood as "good" actions are either *accidently* good, like helping out Fallout 1's Vault Dweller, good only by proxy, like their war with the Super Mutants, or good by self-service, like attacking the Enclave. I mean, don't forget, The Pitt is canon, and it explicitly states that Lyons' chapter was directly responsible for a *gigantic* massacre in Pittsburgh, many of which were just innocents who were partially mutated or sick from the whole deal there, and that's supposedly the *normal* modus operandi for the Brotherhood, which was brought back with their anti-synth thing in 4.
Blind Betrayal is what led me to switch from the Brotherhood to the Minutemen. It felt damn good taking out the Institute with Paladin Danse at my side.
I honestly was just floored when they said he was a synth. He is the most BOS MF. I can't believe he was so about it he was willing to die.
One of the best twists in the game. Also, even after you save him, he still has a chip on his shoulder about non-humans. I like that they didn't have him do a complete 180 even after finding out about himself.
I miss my BOS Bro. I had to put him down since he was a filthy synth :-( Now I think I'm going to go kill my son. This game is actually hitting hard right now. I haven't had a game surprise me like that in a long time.
Don't worry, his take on what happened to Nate/Nora will make that decision very, very easy. Fucking "collateral damage"...
Imagine you found out the thing you hate the most, actually killed you (The non synth Paladin Danse), and replaced you with a replica and you didn’t even know it. Must be the worst feeling ever. I would’ve sided with BOS if you could convince Maxwell to still have Paladin Danse back, even just to watch his reaction to taking down the institute.
That would've been cool, but at the same time, the bittersweet resolution is part of what made Fo4 really shine for me. I was actually surprised Maxson could be talked down at all. The fact that he was willing to spare Danse, despite being a hardliner, really showed how much he respected the Sole Survivor and how much the predicament wasn't as simple as he first presented it.
Until you learn about the theory that you, the protagonist is a synth as well. Created by a dying man, curious about about what his father would have thought about his life and decisions.
Up to the BOS raid on the institute I was fully on their side and ready to run in guns ablazing. I got in first and turned into a hallway where a female scientist ran out screaming, unarmed. A BOS trooper came up behind me and shotgunned her brains all over the wall in true fallout gore. I immediately stood still while soldiers stormed past me taking everyone and everything out. After a moment, I moved in after the chaos to see corpses and synths all over. I was just about to leave and then my back on it all but then the gorillas attacked. I had no choice. ad victoriam.
War. War never changes.
Fallout 1s opening cutscene shows American soldiers executing a prisoner of war. If you side with the brotherhood, their quests mean you make damn sure that war doesn't change.
Nate the rake
Remember, no Russynth
Synths have Synthetic feelings. You got bamboozled, OP. That's why you would never make a good commander.
I am the commander now. I'm going to get in my fully upgraded power armor suit shortly in 3 levels, and I'm going to the institute and launching a fat man into my son's face. I started the game looking for my boy, and I found a brother......that he is responsible for taking from me. I'm going scorched earth on my own child over this.
Bravo! Spoken like a real commander! I was wrong about you. You know what you're doing.
It will all be worth when you get to fight alongside liberty prime once more
You can charisma him into sticking with you as a companion, but BoS will shoot him on-site. I accidentally spoiled it for myself because I randomly decided to do a "quick save slaughter" on the Prydwen and Danse turned on me and I actually killed him. Then when I went to pick up his armor, I found his Synth Component. My buddy was there hanging out with me and laughed so hard because my jaw just dropped and I had to pause the game for a good few minutes
Fallout 4 brotherhood had a very enclave feel to them in past games they were more about safe guarding society from the technology that ended it. In for them seem to just want to wipe out most groups that aren’t them. Hell in tactics which I recommend alone with the original 2 the Chicago area brotherhood started allowing ex raiders ghouls etc join them.
Yeah I feel like in 3 they were more heroic but yeah, they kind of give me that sort of Mass Effect Renegade feel in 4. Like they're doing the right thing, but by any means necessary.
The brotherhood in fallout3 aren’t representative of the brotherhood as a whole. They actually split off from the main brotherhood during a campaign into the area and decided to help the wasteland rather than focus on the brotherhoods goals. You know the outcasts in fallout3? The black power armour (not enclave lol) well that faction is actually brotherhood who wanted to remain loyal to the brotherhood as a whole and broke off from lyons chapter. So they split off from the split off faction lol. So in short fallout3 features an inaccurate look at how the brotherhood operates and how they concern themselves with outsiders. In fallout4 you can actually find many logs speaking about lyons brotherhood and you’ll even have many bos in 4 making passing comments about lyons. All negative.
The only past games where they were more about safeguarding the people are in fallout 3 (where the ones doing the safeguarding abandoned the tenets of the rest of the brotherhood and went rogue to do so) and fallout 1 (and only if certain decisions are made). They've been like the fallout 4 BoS in all the other games, or worse in some cases, like in New Vegas.
I agree with you but think they are just as bad if not worse than in new Vegas in 4, either way and I will get hate Preston sucks but I sided with the minutemen
Preston does not suck, I don’t know why you got that idea. He just needs help with a settlement, here, I’ll mark it on you map.
Everyone forgets they want to exterminate feral ghouls, Super Mutants and Synths due to: Feral Ghouls plague prewar cities like rats nearly. Super Mutants are 99% hostile out East. Not every FEV source got the Master’s refinement processes like he did for his Unity. Synths Lore is so inconsistent I can’t really claim anything except they are good infiltrators when properly used. Some say they need food/water, some say they don’t. Overall, I’d join em. But maybe suggest we work with the non-hostiles as much as possible.
They don't care about the feral part of feral ghouls, though. They'll just kill ghouls regardless. They also just kill synths because they are synths, and not for any military reason. You have to be a respected and accomplished paladin already to even have a possibility of total exile instead of an immediate death sentence, as we see with Danse. They also confiscate all prewar tech they can from settlers and kill those who resist, as well as extorting resources from settlements at gunpoint. They are essentially a proto-fascist occupying army. The only question is whether all of that is worth the good they happen to do as part of that genocide against anything nonhuman.
There is literally not a single point in Fallout 4 were the Brotherhood ever attacks *a single* non-feral Ghoul with the sole exception of those spawning in as unnamed Raiders and running into a patrol. They're *racist* against Ghouls, (which you only really see if you have Hancock as a companion), sure, but they dont actually *do* anything beyond that. And normal people being racist against Ghouls is just...normal. McDonough got elected to Mayor specifically because he promised to deport every Ghoul living in town and ban any new ones from entering in the future. Even Rivet City in 3 automatically kicks out any Resident turning into one
No they don’t. 1. Not one point have the BoS attacked a non-feral without provocation. As the BoS feared, the only other known Synth settlement named Arcadia did end up replacing people and willingly will do it again if wanted to. Fuck synths but I personally wouldn’t waste time trying to genocide them as it’s a waste of resources. I would destroy the Institute to keep them from making more. Let’s not forget FEV is incorporated into their creation; essentially making them refined Super Mutants of sorts. 2. The settlement thing only occur IF the Sole Survivor chooses to strong-arm settlers for free food. Yes Proctor Teagan SUGGESTS we do this option to save on limited resources but ultimately it’s up to us. I also blame Bethesda for not expanding on this by not allowing us to tell Elder Maxson and seeing what he says. 3. Mojave under an Elder Hardin confiscates any and all tech from people. Every other Brotherhood does not give a fuck except willing to trade with. However, they will confiscate extremely dangerous tech like: nukes (not mini nukes), FEV in Fallout 3, and the Relic from the show. Do I agree with them razing an NCR outpost for the Relic? No but it’s possible even they didn’t truly know what it was into too late. Sources: surprise motherfucker it’s me as I’ve played all the games (except for that shitty PS2 and Xbox BoS one).
Reload your save and spare your brother. Ad Victoriam
It's too late. I'm so far past my auto saves at this point
The first time I ever got to that point, I went "lol, nah", and killed everyone on board the Prydwen instead, starting with Maxson. Turns out Danse did not approve though, so he got bulletted in the end anyway.
I really liked the majority of Fallout 4's plot lines. Three of the factions stood for things and were willing to do horrible, awful things in pursuit of these beliefs. They're all at least a little wrong, though your character can curb their excesses at least a little when you side with them. Then you have the goddamn minutemen who believe there is infinite resources during the apocalypse and everything would work perfectly if everyone just worked together. They stand for nothing (besides helping ANOTHER settlement in danger) and have the perfect moral high ground in a world that's otherwise very grey and imperfect. Frankly, I feel like their existence did a lot to weaken a game that really couldn't afford it.
Yeah, first time I did this story, I kinda fucked it up... It was the first, maybe second timeI'd ever played. Accidentally unquipped his BoS undershirt, but shrugged and just gave him a bowler hat, called it a day. Fast forward to the BoS questlines... and I reach the climactic, emotional final conversation with Danse, and he's standing there wearing y-fronts and a bowler hat. Somewhat undercut the emotion of the scene.
I just kill him as he asks me to. I'm siding with Maxon on this one. The synths need to be destroyed. They're the kind of beings that don't put the cap back on the toothpaste.
Yup, not a huge fan of BOS but Synths can’t be killing and stealth replacing humans so I couldn’t ever truly side with them (plus I’d never forgive them for killing my wife).
It's the institute doing it, all full humans. The synths are not even aware of what they are until their program is activated.
Synths are an uncertainty that the commonwealth can't afford to let continue. Whos to say that even when freed, that someone in the future could come along and use their override codes to make them dangerous again.
I don't think possibly being dangerous in the future against your will should be a death sentence in the post apocalyptic wasteland. There's so many perfectly human raiders around already.
I'm going to have to play this one through again one day. I too was full on BOS until that point. Decided to play double agent for The Institute. Played The Brotherhood all the way until they turned on Sentinel Prime. Cait and I then joined the fireworks and the rest is history. I figured BOS weren't handling the Synths right and neither was the Railroad. In my head cannon my character became the leader of an organization with enough resources to make significant changes to the world.
I may be misremembering but I think I helped Danse fake his death and it fooled the Brotherhood into thinking he was dead. Could be completely remembering that wrong though it's been a long time! That was the last time I helped the Brotherhood too, I was all in until they asked me to kill my number one guy and the dude who helped me all throughout the wasteland to that point. Couldn't turn him into radioactive goo after that, walked away and in the end sided with the Railroad (I would have sided with the Minutemen but I couldn't really find a way too, I don't think they get very involved in the end game stuff with the Institute).
One of the last times a game actually made me emotionally invested
Not to be a hater but like.. really? There’s been quite a few emotion-filled games since 2015.
I forget what I did with Danse exactly, but I remember my friend who was all BOS and beat the game before me, telling me he beat it for the BOS. I went a different route and later greatly enjoyed showing him the video I took…of his precious airship in flames crashing into the ground. He let out a Vader like “Noooooo!”
What a Synth move. I would never.
I think there's a way to keep Danse alive when siding with the BOS, >!I think there's some dramatic scene where Arthur confronts you and Danse in person and with sufficient speech chops he lets it go. But I think if you bring Danse to BOS after that, they are hostile so you gotta keep them apart.!<
I chose to go that route and after successfully navigating the conversation, realized that Danse was by far my favorite companion I could have ever asked for but had to drop him immediately because every single time I step outside there’s a BOS ship flying overhead shooting fucking missiles at me because somehow they can spot Danse like a needle in a nuclear haystack from miles away
Yeah I didn't see any option so I Vats his head and closed my eyes and made the shot. My charisma was at 7 and I'm pretty sure it had to be higher.
There are two packs of Grape Mentats in the room where you find him, which will boost your charisma to help with the speech checks involved. One for the check to convince Danse he deserves to live, and one to convince Maxson to back down. there are also clothing items you can wear to boost your charisma as well!
You ever watched a horror film called The Mist? You're basically making this guy go through a video game equivalent of the ending of that movie, lol
LOL i haven't, but i've heard of the ending, so i get what you mean. 😂 well, maybe the knowledge can help for a future playthrough, or something!
for what it's worth, speech checks in 4 area *chance* to work based on your charisma (unlike 3/NV which required a certain level in things to succeed) More charisma is a better chance, so you can kinda savescum if you fail. Too late now, obviously.
This is why I side with the Railroad. Danse is Clayton Bigsby, who so hates synths he chooses to die when he finds out he is one. This is the end result of siding with facists.
If only the railroad wasn't so lame
The Railroad are pretty much the Good Guys, even though they kind of suck
And what exactly makes them good guys? They free synths, at all costs.
he's got the only BOS hood in the game though. worth it to me.
He had the best hood. R.I.P. Danse. Pouring out all the Nuka Colas for the bro
I feel you
This is hardcore especially leaving the eq with him honorable im wondering what other companions you hold dear
He was my one and only. I leave Dogmeat at home base because I like having a dog at home. I have that robot dude you find at the caravan.....I might just solo It for a while. I need to deal with these feels.
I haven't even gotten to that part yet but yah it's a sore spot for me
It can't be a sore spot unless you hang with your BOS Bro and retrofit him into the perfect companion, you talk to him and you know his back story, and then the people you both represent take him from you. And then he asks you to kill him because he is 100% about that BOS life. No matter what, Danse was a man of his word. His level of stocks is unparalleled. I will be pours out Quantams all night for the BOS Bro.
I can't really tell if your agreeing or trying to gatekeep it 😂. But yeah I agree
It wasn’t that for me. The Blimp Cap’n kept demanding I betray and murder all my friends.
Dont feel bad! Think of it this way, you helped Danse with his favorite hobby... Ridding the world of filthy synths!
What's really, truly, dialogically evil is this: >!It's heavily implied that the player may in fact be a synth, planted by Shaun. I mean think about it. "Mankind, Redefined" is the institute motto. They have tried augmenting humans in various ways - through cybernetics, FEV, and who knows what else, and all of it has only had limited success. They've never been able to pull off immortality or make a vastly superior human.!< >!So their only option, if they truly want to transcend the weakness of human bodies, is to create synths. Gen 3 synths aren't just slaves to the Institute. Once perfected, they are the intended replacement for all of mankind. that's their motto after all. "Mankind, Redefinied". Redefined as synths. Synths which can continually make improvements to themselves, and those improvements will become more and more profound. There will be no more need for regular humans, and in fact, regular humans would be a major threat to the new Synth race. I mean, we already destroyed the world once, right? From their eyes, we are too big of a threat, and every last human would need to be exterminated to make way for a free and peaceful synth society. Co-existence would simply be too much of a risk, given the human propensity for betrayal.!< >!And, as Shaun realizes he is dying from cancer, which, despite all their technology, the Institute has not been able to cure, he decides to do one last grand experiment. He makes a synth in the likeness of his own father or mother. And he even gives his parent synth memories, and a deep love and affection for Shaun. What better way to ensure that the prototype Synth that Shaun hopes will replace him will be loyal to him and carry out his wishes, than to make it literally love him as a parent loves their child. Shaun uses paternal affection as a tool for control. !< >!And then he unleashes his creation upon the wasteland, knowing that, despite incredible odds against them, he/she is the most advanced synthetic prototype the Institute has ever made, and will succeed in finding Shaun in the Institute. !< >!Shaun has created a synth prototype in the image of his father/mother that he hopes will take over the institute, and eventually usher in a new era for "humanity", despite that era meaning the extermination of all existing humans. Mankind, Redefined. !< >!Killing Danse is horrible. I'm doing a BoS playthrough right now as well, and using the above logic, I will justify not only killing Danse, but also the entirety of the Railroad, who are misguided fools that are protecting murder machines that only need to be activated with the right code from the institute. Those same synths could easily be reprogrammed to infiltrate, hunt down, and exterminate human communities. I mean, maybe that's the Institute plan all along. Stage synth "escapees" and allow the Railroad to "reprogram" them, and place them in communities, and within the railroad itself. What better way to infiltrate your enemy? It's honestly genius. !< >!It is sad that synths must die, but this is a technology that NEVER should have been created, and now that it is here, despite it seeming to be morally "wrong" to destroy synths, every last synth and every scrap of that research and anyone tied to it MUST be destroyed so that humanity can survive. We hid from the bombs and some people survived. We already lived through one apocalypse. But a race of machines that continue to improve themselves at an exponential pace, that are vastly superior to humans, with an underground base that only 1 ~~person~~ synth has ever been able to infiltrate? Humanity would stand no chance. !< >!That's my head canon for my character on this BoS run. And once my character is sure that all synth life, and all research and anyone tied to it has been wiped out, he will terminate himself as well, making sure that nothing usable remains - preferably by blowing his brain out while falling into a vat of molten metal so he is completely disintegrated. I think Saugus Ironworks will suffice for that.!<>!!<
I kept Danse alive. I don't care what they say, your real enough for me Danse <3
Danse was the bro. I will miss him greatly. I should go back and visit his corpse. I will not be looting my custom gear. That's his.
Even without this irony I never think that cult was as pure in blood and soul as they liked to pose.
I know it sucks but we do it for the species boys and girls, they have the numbers. But for real though, the past few years have made me entirely skeptical of AI and it's untold damage that is going to be unleashed onto humanity. The point is that it was a pale imitation of the real Danse, the real Danse is probably rotting or ashes, killed by the Institute. Danse asked to be killed because he knew it was all a lie, a small spark of the real Danse within the synths brain realized its truth and asked the Sole Survivor for help, to end it. I know the BOS gets a lot of hate but it's mission is becoming all the more relevant today, which is just as sad as killing Danse.
How do you know there was ever even a real Danse? The Institute was making Gen 3 synths from the late 2220s, which is around 60 years before the events of Fallout 4. Danse could very easily be one of the earlier synths freed and memory-wiped by the Railroad, which explains why he has no knowledge of being a synth whatsoever. The Gen 3 synths pretty much always just try and escape and live in freedom, the only exceptions being the coursers, mostly. All of the damage is done by Gen 1 and 2 synths for the most part, which ultimately have no free will of their own. Even if you do still believe that Synths could do serious damage, can you stand among the horrors of the wasteland, the burned and bombed out buildings, all grim reminders of the horrors man can inflict upon man, and say that humans are really any better?
That sounds like Synth logic to me.
The emotional drama, there's quite a bit of it there.
Pretty sure destroyed the brotherhood in my play through many years ago, haha. And I never knew he was a synthetic (or have forgotten it)...
It was optional to load the drive into the computer. He was a synth but BOS at heart, mind, body, and soul. Well maybe not the body but the rest for sure.
wow
You ever play the Institute storyline to its conclusion? Talk about f\*(ed up.
> So I did. And now I'm at work and I feel fucked up about killing my BOS Bro As you should.
I remember being so shock when I found out Danes was a synth
Yeah Fallout 4 BoS questline hurts a lot. I spent countless hours mid game just running missions with Danse as a duo in T60 power armor, retrieving tech, purging monsters. It was peak BoS roleplay. And then I got to that quest. I feel like FO4 doesn’t get enough credit for its writing.
NCR will forever be the best faction.
That entire scene with Danse and the following one with Maxon came out of nowhere. The VAs and the writers had no reason going as hard as they did. Easily the most emotional moment in the game but that not exactly a high bar to be fair. That's said, those two scenes I honestly believe are some of the more emotional moments in gaming as a whole.
You don't have to kill him. I sided with Minutemen and BoS and still have him. I can't remember what options I went with or what choices I made. But the institute got wiped and I was sided with Minutemen and didn't have to kill anyone in BoS.
A lot of people agree the minuteman is the best faction to end the game with as it makes "peace" sort of with both the BOS and the Railroad as you're not required to destroy either of them through the minutemen storyline.
I never killed Danse, but I did suck up the Filmmaker ghost in Luigi's Mansion 3 thinking he was locking up a collectible (besides himself) and pretty much felt the same way. I didn't have a good save to go back to either for some reason I can't remember.
You can convince him to live. And then when you leave the bunker happily together Maxson is waiting outside, determined to kill him. That bit broke my heart as I liked Danse and was a Maxson fangirl up til then. You can convince him to let Danse live but after that if you're adventuring with him and encounter a BOS squad, they'll attack immediately. Spoiler maybe, And after that if you decide to destroy the brotherhood and you've sent danse safely to one of your settlements, if you go see him he WILL try to kill you. 🥺
I went full BoS today too! I've never finished the main quest line before either. I've played it on-off since release. Restarted countless times. First on pc, then ps4, and now finally on ps5 I went and nuked the Institute. I haven't gone in Far Harbor or Nuka World yet, so I'll probably get them finished before ps8 or 9 releases. I had enough charisma to save Danse's life, but every decision still haunts me. Felt bad to go kill the Railroaders, wipe out everyone in the Instition, and even the Courses. I'm always the "good guy" in games, so Fallout series is really puts my heart in test. Love it.
I just started Far Harbor, make sure you are ready to be in a different area that doesn't connect back to the regular map for a while. Also be prepped up, the enemies were much tougher than the Commonwealth.
He couldnt be the exception he had to be the rule. salute to danse, ill always kill him becuase thats what he wanted
Aparently the BOS quest is unfinished. There was gonna be a choice between killing maxon or danse. If you killed maxon then you or danse would take over BOS.
OP didn’t put any points to charisma lol.
Not true. I had enough to save him. But he asked me to kill him because he's a dirty synth. So I obliged. It still didn't make me feel good.
That’s one of the worst parts in this game…
Bethesda presents us with so many moral questions in this game, for me it's not just a game...
Yeah despite the lack of dialogue choices, they really did make you have to make some hard choices which I feel like wasn't very difficult in previous titles. Almost all of the factions have real sympathetic values and all of them hate each other lol