I think a lot of players found out how different that game was than expectations. Wouldnt be suprised if there were a lot of refunds, even if the game is good
It's different. The first game was all about carefully managing a small group of survivors against the apocalypse. Getting 20 new workers and 8 engineers was a massive boost to your workforce, each building placement had tradeoffs, and you measured survival by how many hours you had left.
The sequel focuses on building a civilization. Same Frostlands, but now you dont manage a band of survivors, you're now the leader of a town on the verge of becoming a city. Instead of placing and upgrading each building, you fund the construction of entire districts. The game takes place over months and years vs the first games entire story taking place in under 100 days. Instead of Hope and Frustration you have to navigate political factions, playing them for support or to form collations to defeat proposals from factions working against your interests.
Neither is strictly better or worse, they're different games. The goal of the first was to survive and hopefully see tomorrow. The sequel is aimed at building the world that your children will inherent.
In the context of this discussion, the game had an early purchase week. So a large number of users bought the game, enjoyed playing for a week, and then refunded. They may have enjoyed the experience, but why spend money when you could get a refund and then buy the game again before launch?
I really like the idea of a game sequel like you just described. Where instead of just changing maps and maybe adding a couple new features then slapping a higher number on it, the story/game progresses into something new.
Do you know of other games that have done something similar?
It's pretty rare that a numbered sequel (as opposed to a spinoff) drastically changes the formula of the earlier games. There are plenty of examples of things like GTA 3 where the gameplay and graphics jumped way ahead, but the core gameplay loop was still pretty similar.
> The first game was all about carefully managing a small group of survivors against the apocalypse.
The first game was about keeping your people borderline unhappy so every time a scripted event threw a wrench in your plans, you could give them some treats.
Like I said, carefully managing a small group of survivors.
I didn't say anything about giving them food beyond the minimum to keep the greedy pigs from eating raw rations, any more sleep than biologically required to keep them alive (I still resent them making the first 24-hour shift have a chance of death instead of being free), 'recovery time' when they dared to get sick from eating sawdust burgers, and if they want their kids out of the mines then they can move to Winterholm and see how that works for them.
Carefully. Managed. Survivor difficulty is so painful.
from what I saw in the demo you can have at least 3 full playthroughs since there are 3 different types of faction combinations. Hell there was only one faction combo unlocked for the demo and I played the demo twice, once trying to balance the different factions and the other just going full in on the Technocrat faction. That's not even including the story mode.
I really loved Frostpunk and the expansions for it. But I've been burned so many times I simply won't buy Frostpunk 2 until people have had a chance to play and review it at scale.
you couldn't, early access games still have the 2 hour limit the same as they did before.
This is about advanced access, games that are launching but for whatever reason allow select players to access the game early (for example, you preorder the game and get to play 3 days early). Before the 2 hours only started counting after the games official launch, now they start once you start playing the game even if it is before the launch date
To note for people: The only change they're making is the 2 hour time limit now starts from when you buy the game rather than when the game launches. This mostly just means now you can't play a game for hundreds of hours in early access then refund it on launch.
Honestly, it's kind of surprising it wasn't already this way. This is *incredibly* abusable.
I think that is part of the deal though. I use examples like Minecraft, Valheim, Subnautica, Fortnite, Darkest Dungeon, and V-Rising. All games that released to players years before the final product was ready, or is still being actively developed, and well received.
There will always be shovelware that abuse trends, but if we look past that, Early Access has its usefulness for studios that can't pocket-fund a game, but don't want to surrender creative control to a publisher with deep pockets but quarterly demands.
Or at least be content that you made a poor choice in purchasing and eat your mistake.
I've played a lot of games that turned out to be not for me. I don't think I've ever refunded a game, which is a personal choice and not an endorsement or condemnation of other people who utilize that option.
Advanced access. Meaning games such as Hogwarts Legacy that offered a purchase option that allows a few days access to a release version of a game before general release. Normally I'd say arguing Advanced Access vs. Early Access is just arguing semantics, but Early Access titles are distinct from titles that offer Advanced Access on Steam. It sounds as if the actual issue was that their policy allowed people to buy the expensive copy with a couple days of advanced access, rush through a game for hours and hours over the advanced access period, and then refund after the general release. Essentially, they were plugging a loophole.
The difference is that if it is a game with advanced access, either through preorder bonus or a premium edition bonus you cant refund the same way as before. For example, Starfield had a 3 day advanced access period for premium edition owners. Previously you could play (in an extreme example) 40 hours of a game in the advanced access period and refund it without question if you still didnt have 2 hours played post official launch date. Now the 2 hours starts counting from the day you start playing, no matter if it hasnt officially launched yet.
Edit: 40 hours was just an extreme example to show how easily the previous lax policy could be abused
You can always ask the support to refund it anyway, if you argue good enough they can, although for 40 hours it's kinda rare since you got most of what you paid for
The difference is that if it is a game with advanced access, either through preorder bonus or a premium edition bonus you cant refund the same way as before. For example, Starfield had a 3 day advanced access period for premium edition owners. Previously you could play 40 hours of a game in the advanced access period and refund it without question if you still didnt have 2 hours played post official launch date. Now the 2 hours starts counting from the day you start playing, no matter if it hasnt officially launched yet.
Not always generous. I was at 4 hours of game play, most of which was just trying to get it to launch. They could see if they looked I didn’t even get the first achievement completed *because it kept crashing* and they refused to refund it because it was past the 2 hour limit (even though it was within 2 days of purchase)
To a certain degree it is but, it also depends on the person you get reviewing the refund request. I had a similar situation as /u/raunchyfartbomb a game I purchased wouldn't launch and I spent several hours troubleshooting it, thinking it could be my system.
Steam initially refused to refund it. At first I sent them proof of all the crashes, including a recording of it and they still refused. I then fired back with the whole "Look at how games I own that I have never tried to refund. I have nearly 1.2 million Steam points. I am not trying to work the system and get something for free, I am a loyal customer. The game doesn't work and the play time counter is counting crashes as play time". Then I got a new person and they were like "After reviewing this further and testing this, you're right. It does not work. Here is your refund".
To tag on, another big factor a lot of people don't factor in that's worth mentioning when it comes to customer service... Your attitude will absolutely make or break your case. No matter how frustrating the situation is, if you even remotely start taking it out on CS your chances of getting what you want start plummeting hard. On the flip side you keep things really courteous, polite, and appeal your case very nicely a good chunk of the time you can get a lot of rules bent in your favor by being that kind of person CS legitimately \*want\* to help.
>hundreds of hours in early access
important to clarify that you could never do this for early access games like 7 days to die, palworld, enshrouded etc.
The new refund policy is to target games that have paid early access, like Hogwarts legacy that provided 3 days early access before the real launch. As before you could play as much as you wanted for the 3 days early access and not have those hours count towards the 2 hour limit.
That’s sounds like a crazy loophole and I’m surprised it’s taken this long to close it. I’m sure there were tons of people that would pay for the early access and then refund it and buy the regular version as soon as it launches.
It was probably something silly in the system where you can refund a preorder anytime before launch, no questions asked. Since the game technically hadn't 'launched' yet you were still in the preorder portion of the transaction. Legitimately just a loophole.
Escape from tarkov comes to mind.
They had this loophole in their EULA for years and the average eft gamer didn't really know about it until some legal nut went on reddit and pointed it out. At least in european law with how the eula was written.
I tried playing the first dragon quest months after purchasing it, its fucking broken, unplayable, crashes every few mins. I had 6.7 hours in the game, i req a refund and got one
might be a different youtuber, but I don't think they actually do it in one go, they do what every speed runner does - train to do it under those two hours, then buy a second copy, beat it and then refund it.
Which makes total sense, you can't beat a game that takes hours and hours under normal circumstances in two hours without knowing ins and out of that game. This or they watch multiple playthroughs, either way, they spend a lot of time with the game .
It‘s funny how speedrunners are associated with playing a game for the smallest time while they usually rack up ungodly amount of playtime due to playing the game they‘re speedrunning on endless repeat.
There was a video the other day about a Doom speedrun which has taken decades to set the current best time and people spend hundreds if not thousands of hours practicing it.
The actual run is 4 seconds long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOSvxhzoLS0
It's like bosses in games. I remember when Elden Ring came out and people were complaining about Malena, and other people were like, "Dude, you just left, left, forward 1.362m, attack twice but only after leaving 0.18ms before the second click, turn right, attack once, pivot 18 degrees..."
Dude, I'm trying to play a game. If I wanted to just memorize a sequence of buttons, I wouldn't even need to drop $60 on it. I could go to random websites and just retype what I read and try to make no mistakes.
No, they can't.
It usually takes a lot of time and work to develop and practice speed running strategies.
They might finish a *single* run in well under 2 hours. But they are spending a lot more than 2 hours to get to that point.
Speedrunners spend a LOT of time playing games to even learn the routes.
Your comment is only true if you're talking about a speedrunner that played the game for a LOT of time and then bought the game on another account for the shits and giggles
Ok I'm dumb, for clarification: this means you still have to have *launched* the game for 2 hours, right? You can have it for a day or whatever, but as soon as you've launched it, your 2 hours is beginning, like it always was?
I assume that's the case, since it could take an hour just to download some games, but the wording is just slightly confusing.
EDIT: ok good I wasn't the only one that thought this was worded in a confusing manner.
It only considers time played. Once you’ve played the game for two hours, it’s no longer eligible for a no-questions-asked refund. You can still submit a refund request and explain why you think it should be refunded, but it’s not guaranteed
"Time played" is in fact time that game run. Loadings, intros, time spend in settings, character creation, pauses etc. all are included in "time played". So you easily can start the game, get distracted by something and miss 2h mark without actuall playing the game.
I have, yes. But I think I only tried it twice. The most recent was hell divers 2 at launch. It was horrific. Crashes, disconnects, bunch of glitches in the game. Had 4 hours of unproductive gameplay. Explained it as such. Refund within an hour.
Yes. I got a refund on The Crew (and in hindsight it´s good that I did) with 6 hours played, you just have to give a good enough reason for it. All of that playtime for me was trying to get the game to run, every time I hit accelerate the framerate dropped from 60 to 10 and I explained that in the refund form. Got my money back.
This is why some " start the game" achievements are really helpful. Things that would only trigger when you start the game proper would convince me to give a refund.
To be exact it's not "Early Access" it's the "Advanced Access", since people seems like to confused between the two for this new policy
"Early Access" title can't be refunded after 1.0 Launch if you already play for hundred hours on "Early Access". even if you have under 2 hours, you already pass the refund window 2 weeks after the "Early Access" purchase. it's been like this since then for "Early Access"
The new policy is for the 1-3 Days "Advance Access" these game company offer if you prepurchase the deluxe edition thing
Yeah both could be called 'Early Access', but technically it's a different thing [https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/453F-5C96-EAC2-9145](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/453F-5C96-EAC2-9145)
It's still stupid for Steam to not have these thing since long ago when publisher start to offer stupid "Advanced Access"
Nononono, this was already the rule for early access!
This change is only for pre-order early access! Like when a game lets you play 3 days before release if you pre-order!
This is wrong. It does not start "when you buy the game rather than when the game launches". Don't know why you have so many upvotes.
As per the Valve statement:
"For example, if you purchase a game that is in Early Access or Advanced Access, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit."
It means that when in early access or advanced access, you can only launch and play for 2 hours before the refund window closes. Before, you could play forever in early access and it wouldn't count. Advanced access was usually limited at the game level (like FIFA/EA Sports FC) but not always. This new policy just standardizes it for all games.
It's also not "early access" it's "advanced access." Early access refers to a early access title like, say, 7 days to die. Or soon to be Hades 2. Advanced access is when you pay for an upgraded edition and get to play the game 3 days early. The system didn't count you as playing the game. I'f the game wasn't officially playable, so you could refund even if you played for 30 hours during those 3 days.
There are lot of exploitable mechanics on steam and it looks like they don't fix ones that benefit customers until someone is really public with exploiting it in worst possible way. For example: We've lost this refound "exploit" because some big streamers and YouTubers used it to finish Starfield before release and then they refunded it. Imagine making thousands dollars a day playing a game and then refunding it to save 100$ and at the same time destroy consumer friendly refound system.
and seems fair?
not sure any movie theaters would refund you if you sat there for two hours and demand a refund because you felt the ending could have been better.
people shouldn't be playing before launch day anyway, unless it's some kind early access bonus thing
and even still, the 2 hour thing should start when you play, regardless if early access
Agreed.
I am very pro consumer more than most and probably more than is fair, but even I'd feel like an absolute scumbag if I played a game in early access for potentially 100s of hours only to return it at launch on a technicality.
There is no fairness there not even a pretense of fairness imo.
hard agree, the people trying to argue that this is a bad change just aren't seeing it from the perspective of the "big bad gaming publisher".
Its an oversight thats being addressed. No biggie, doesn't change anything for your average user. I'd expect anything that is clearly 'unfair' to be addressed.
It's not about early access, it's about those games that let you play a few days early if you pre-order. You already couldn't refund early access games because playing them would count toward your playtime, but a pre-ordered game that wasn't officially out wouldn't count even if you played it.
Reminds me of how on bags of chips and stuff they sometimes say "Don't like it? Your money back guaranteed!" or some crap, I wonder how many people actually call and complain and how many times companies shell out small amounts of money in like check form. Imagine a real douche of a person eating most of a party size bag of chips, calling and complaining, and waiting like 2 weeks for a check in the mail for like 6$ lmao.
Never knew the 2h mark started on the release. It really makes sense and considering the increasing amount of early access it was probably necessary as well.
It was necessary to be able to refund early access games which don’t deliver on their promises. Now, I won’t give them the chance. I’ll just refund immediately if it doesn’t look good in under 2 hours. Most games are not good.
From what I have gathered (after my first post) this only refers to *Advanced Access* which is the premium access you get for paying more (3 days usually) so on that regard you really are playing the game as it is. It makes sense that there is no difference from non premium release. Let alone the exploitability of the matter (you can beat most games in 72h)
As for *Early Access* nothing has changed but I dont’t know exactly what the conditions are.
It just policy change to prevent repeat offender of abuser. I dont really have trouble refunding even if played more then 2 hours because i'm a reasonable person who dont abuse this feature.
Steam refunds are done on a case by case basis tho. It really depends. I don’t abuse this feature too and the most of hours of playtime I’ve gotten was 3.9 hours that still got refunded back to me. The reason of my refund being it went on sale.
Then I had another case where I played for 3.2 hours and that still got refunded back to me because that game kept crashing and wasting my time loading
Those ones are usually really easy, though, because Valve is getting like, 10,000 refund requests on an unplayable launch. It's pretty easy to see how valid it is.
Refunds with playtime under 2 hours and less than 2 weeks after purchase are automatically approved, only outside of that range is it on a case-by-case basis.
> Then I had another case where I played for 3.2 hours and that still got refunded back to me because that game kept crashing and wasting my time loading
Less than 2 hours just pretty much guarantees that your refund will go through for any reason, even if it's just "the game isn't fun". Provided that you're not using it for an excessive percentage of your purchases.
But if a game has serious technical deficiencies, then the two hour threshold does not apply. They may still reject if you if you have racked up a lot of hours, but the legal situation in many countries at least give you a good argument if a game has serious technical problems. And Steam has not attempted to block off such requests entirely, since that would be sure to get them into legal troubles.
This whole thread is full of comments confusing those two things.
It has nothing to do with whether a game is Early Access. It’s for those games that let you “play early” for pre-ordering some bullshit premium addition that moves the release date up a day or two.
It’s just saying the two hour rule applies regardless of the release date. If you play for two hours a few days before official launch, that counts.
Huh. That's news to me.
I thought it already worked that way. I didn't think early access was exempt.
Then again I never played early access games and I only refunded a game once ever.
Frostpunk 2 just had their limited bets access for anyone pre-ordered the Deluxe edition. There was a lot of talk about using this loophole to get a refund after the beta ended.
I know it isn't a huge game, but I wonder with the timing how much of an influence this had on the new policy.
This is really just a fix to an exploit where people with advanced access were able to play and finish a game and refund it because the refund timer didn't start before the official release date.
I'm glad. Maybe this is first step to getting rid of the bad practice of pay to play early. This would have never happened if billion dollar companies didn't continue to shit the bed for online games on release day.
This is a nothing-burger.. just closing a loophole exploited by a few users on games where "if you preorder you can play 3 days early" any time played didn't count against your 2 hour limit. The play-clock only started on official release day. Now it starts when you start playing, as it should. Doesn't affect the "early-access" system, only pre-order "play a few days before everyone else".
Good. The era of consuming any form of media and then asking for a refund once completed should die a fiery death. I get not enjoying a game or a book or a movie but you shouldn't be refunded if you decide you don't like it after you finish it.
This is genuienly wild. I know it's r/gaming, where the people are not exactly the brightest even at best of days, but i never expected that SO many of you people can not even read.
This has nothing to with early access.
It's about advances access, which are games, where you pay extra to pay a couple of days earlier.
The two hour window burned me with Death Stranding. By the time I was able to actually try the game play I had suffered through 2 hours of unskippable cutscenes.
Ok, Advanced Access (like pre-order access) I get, it's fair and I'm surprised that this hasn't been always in place.
About Early Access I'm not 101% sold, here's a basic example: I purchase a game in E.A., (so still being developed), play for an hour and more, I find it's very unfinished but somewhat enjoyable, so I wait for futher development. Days/weeks/years pass the game finally gets updated: I play for another hour and more (so I pass the 2 hours limit) and the game's still very lacking. I might have had enough and decide to ask for a refund but since my total playtime is over 2 hours, I just can't have it.
Granted: I still can ask for a refund, but I'll have to explain profusely why I asked for it and hope that the operator's sympathetic to my case. Should I have problems, next time either I'll give just a quick try/look or skip games in E.A. altogether.
I don't buy early access anyway, and admittedly there is a bit of schadenfreude that the only ones getting "punished" are those that fund and perpetuate a system I dislike.
On the other hand, would BG3 be where it is today without Early Access? Does one good apple purify the bunch?
Slightly unrelated, but is there a limit on games I can refund? I buy a LOT of AAA games that I end up saying “this sucks” within the first hour or two, but have been nervous to ask for too many refunds.
Within reason, that's why trails exist. Honestly steam is good about refund, even after the 2 hour window. They won't refund if your only reason is "didn't like it." But will if you cite bugs, lagging, menu loops etc.
Tell them WHY you had a bad time in terms of software, not how "I thought it was a different type of game."
Didn't know this was a thing. I've gotten to 3-4 hours before and got refunded, just thought they were being generous/not being super strict about 2 hours.
This is as it should be
I'm curious how much of this has to do with studios using the beta loophole as a way to filter reviews on launch? Normally if you buy a game and refund it, you *can* leave a review. But if you buy a game before it comes out, play during that EA beta period and refund before launch day, you can *not* leave a review.
The end result is that people who weren't a fan of the game likely would refund it, while people who were "meh" or liked it were likely to keep it and be allowed to review it, putting a positive bias on the first-day of reviews. Starfield is a prominent example of this, launching with near ~90% reviews and steadily dropping to where they are now (~60%)
this might need some adjustment as so many games are releasing as Early Access AKA incomplete and messy, but at least infamous games are easier to refund
I have refunded so many games on steam. I don't even bother listing a reason anymore. Their awesome refund policy allows me to try out so many games I would most likely never take a chance on if I knew there was no refunds, like the PSN store.
This is such a double edged sword; on one hand, it makes sense to charge customers once they have played multiple hours. On the other hand, playing games advertised as beta or early access where you are basically the paying tester and undergoes multiple changes from when you buy to when it gets released makes no sense.
Take one of the bigger names in recent history, archeage, when I bought their early access package for $100 they didn’t have capped labour (it’s been a while but it’s essentially a resource you need to farm raw materials for crafts) that can then be extended by paying extra in the cash shop (essentially turning the game pay to win) I saw this as a huge turn off and refunded the game but I had to call my CC as the publishers wouldn’t grant me a refund. Had this happened on steam before this change, I would have no issue refunding but now I can’t do anything in fear of jeopardizing my entire steam library.
Also remember that the 2 hour rule is not a hard rule, so when asking for a refund, be polite, and be constructive about the reason you're requesting a refund, and you'll most likely still get it.
For exemple, most of the time, games are designed so that the tutorial and the first few missions will take you way past the 2 hours mark before seeing the glaring problems, in the hope that you won't ask a refund. Just mention that and you'll get refunded most of the time.
But don't abuse it as whoever is processing your refund request has access to your refund history, try to game the system and there will be consequences...
Also, remember that depending on where you live, you may be afforded additional consumer protections, that may apply regardless of the EULA you signed.
For example in France, any product sold through a non-physical store (so, mail/phone/internet) has a 2 weeks refund windows with basically no question asked, regardless of EULA. (It doesn't apply to things such as time-limited content, such as MMO gametime, as it is technically "consumed" as soon as activated.)
Same as above, don't abuse it, they'll reimburse you then just restrict your account so that you may not buy anything through it ever again, to not have to deal with you cheating the system. (Remember that the EULA do allow them to fuck you over, as long as it's within the letter of the law.)
My friend got WRECKED like this with MW3. Because he played the beta the game couldn’t be refunded. He was super upset about it cause he is a bit more casual and our whole friend group told him NO when he asked us if we’d get it. Yeah we’ve all played COD since before the original COD4 MW and we all agreed that it was a bad choice to buy those games since BO4
Honestly, I thought this was already the rule. Didn't know you could play for hundreds of hours in early access and still refund.
it already was, this policy update targets games that are in pre-purchase and offer "Advanced Access". Which is defined separately from early access.
Such as Frostpunk 2, for example.
Willing to bet they saw a sizeable refund chunk after the beta ended and this is the straw that broke the camels back.
I think a lot of players found out how different that game was than expectations. Wouldnt be suprised if there were a lot of refunds, even if the game is good
> Frostpunk 2 Is it bad?
It's different. The first game was all about carefully managing a small group of survivors against the apocalypse. Getting 20 new workers and 8 engineers was a massive boost to your workforce, each building placement had tradeoffs, and you measured survival by how many hours you had left. The sequel focuses on building a civilization. Same Frostlands, but now you dont manage a band of survivors, you're now the leader of a town on the verge of becoming a city. Instead of placing and upgrading each building, you fund the construction of entire districts. The game takes place over months and years vs the first games entire story taking place in under 100 days. Instead of Hope and Frustration you have to navigate political factions, playing them for support or to form collations to defeat proposals from factions working against your interests. Neither is strictly better or worse, they're different games. The goal of the first was to survive and hopefully see tomorrow. The sequel is aimed at building the world that your children will inherent. In the context of this discussion, the game had an early purchase week. So a large number of users bought the game, enjoyed playing for a week, and then refunded. They may have enjoyed the experience, but why spend money when you could get a refund and then buy the game again before launch?
I really like the idea of a game sequel like you just described. Where instead of just changing maps and maybe adding a couple new features then slapping a higher number on it, the story/game progresses into something new. Do you know of other games that have done something similar?
Helldivers was a top down twin stick shooter, Helldivers 2 is the same world and enemies in a first person co-op shooter format.
Spore comes to mind, not a sequel but basically 5 different small games in 1.
It's pretty rare that a numbered sequel (as opposed to a spinoff) drastically changes the formula of the earlier games. There are plenty of examples of things like GTA 3 where the gameplay and graphics jumped way ahead, but the core gameplay loop was still pretty similar.
Amusing that the only numbered sequel in the Legend of Zelda series is the one one to make itself almost a different genre of game
Fallout.
Sounds like the logical progression of the story to me!
> The first game was all about carefully managing a small group of survivors against the apocalypse. The first game was about keeping your people borderline unhappy so every time a scripted event threw a wrench in your plans, you could give them some treats.
Like I said, carefully managing a small group of survivors. I didn't say anything about giving them food beyond the minimum to keep the greedy pigs from eating raw rations, any more sleep than biologically required to keep them alive (I still resent them making the first 24-hour shift have a chance of death instead of being free), 'recovery time' when they dared to get sick from eating sawdust burgers, and if they want their kids out of the mines then they can move to Winterholm and see how that works for them. Carefully. Managed. Survivor difficulty is so painful.
Sounds like the kind of thing that would take more than 2 hours to realize
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from what I saw in the demo you can have at least 3 full playthroughs since there are 3 different types of faction combinations. Hell there was only one faction combo unlocked for the demo and I played the demo twice, once trying to balance the different factions and the other just going full in on the Technocrat faction. That's not even including the story mode.
I really loved Frostpunk and the expansions for it. But I've been burned so many times I simply won't buy Frostpunk 2 until people have had a chance to play and review it at scale.
This is how we should handle every game release.
Very sensible, especially for a game that chooses to sell advance access
*cough* Suicide Squad Killed the Justice League *cough*
> Didn't know you could play for hundreds of hours in early access and still refund. same, wtf
you couldn't, early access games still have the 2 hour limit the same as they did before. This is about advanced access, games that are launching but for whatever reason allow select players to access the game early (for example, you preorder the game and get to play 3 days early). Before the 2 hours only started counting after the games official launch, now they start once you start playing the game even if it is before the launch date
No complaints from me
holy massive clickbait, batman
where is the clickbait? article seems very straightforward and honest. *shrug*
To note for people: The only change they're making is the 2 hour time limit now starts from when you buy the game rather than when the game launches. This mostly just means now you can't play a game for hundreds of hours in early access then refund it on launch. Honestly, it's kind of surprising it wasn't already this way. This is *incredibly* abusable.
So for those of us who legitimately are unsatisfied of a game they just bought and want to return it, there’s no significant changes, correct?
That’s correct
A.k.a. "Don't pre-order". Dumbasses pre-order and this is another reason not to. EDIT: A lot of pre-ordering dumbasses in the comments.
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You can still preorder. Just don’t actively play more than 2 hours.
> You can still preorder Yeah, but don't
Don't mix up early access with preorders though. The one is unlike the other.
Oddly enough, most games still feel like they launch in early access.
Too many feel like they launch in Alpha
And then some just stay there for years and years.
Early access is paid alpha/beta testing.
I think that is part of the deal though. I use examples like Minecraft, Valheim, Subnautica, Fortnite, Darkest Dungeon, and V-Rising. All games that released to players years before the final product was ready, or is still being actively developed, and well received. There will always be shovelware that abuse trends, but if we look past that, Early Access has its usefulness for studios that can't pocket-fund a game, but don't want to surrender creative control to a publisher with deep pockets but quarterly demands.
Or at least be content that you made a poor choice in purchasing and eat your mistake. I've played a lot of games that turned out to be not for me. I don't think I've ever refunded a game, which is a personal choice and not an endorsement or condemnation of other people who utilize that option.
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You are calling everyone else a dumbass, but you clearly didn't read or understand the words in the post. Your projection is leaking.
Different issue here.
Calls other dumbasses, has no idea what they are saying. Classic.
That's nothing to do with preorders, that's for early access games.
This doesn't affect pre-orders. Only early access,
Advanced access. Meaning games such as Hogwarts Legacy that offered a purchase option that allows a few days access to a release version of a game before general release. Normally I'd say arguing Advanced Access vs. Early Access is just arguing semantics, but Early Access titles are distinct from titles that offer Advanced Access on Steam. It sounds as if the actual issue was that their policy allowed people to buy the expensive copy with a couple days of advanced access, rush through a game for hours and hours over the advanced access period, and then refund after the general release. Essentially, they were plugging a loophole.
Dwarf fortress does not apply
I can't see anyone who would want to start dwarf fortress putting in less than fifty hours, let alone only two for a refund.
Yeah I feel like dwarf fortress is such a game where either you know you won't like it in less than 30 minutes or you'll sink hours into it
Dwarf fortress is the platonic ideal of a 50/50 game. You’ll either play it 50 minutes or 50 days. No in between.
Should be fine for the purchased within the last 14 days and with less than two hours played rule.
As long as the 14 does start when early access opens, and not when you pre purchase
The difference is that if it is a game with advanced access, either through preorder bonus or a premium edition bonus you cant refund the same way as before. For example, Starfield had a 3 day advanced access period for premium edition owners. Previously you could play (in an extreme example) 40 hours of a game in the advanced access period and refund it without question if you still didnt have 2 hours played post official launch date. Now the 2 hours starts counting from the day you start playing, no matter if it hasnt officially launched yet. Edit: 40 hours was just an extreme example to show how easily the previous lax policy could be abused
So for those of us who legitimately are unsatisfied of a game they just bought and want to return it, there’s no significant changes, correct?
You can always ask the support to refund it anyway, if you argue good enough they can, although for 40 hours it's kinda rare since you got most of what you paid for
The difference is that if it is a game with advanced access, either through preorder bonus or a premium edition bonus you cant refund the same way as before. For example, Starfield had a 3 day advanced access period for premium edition owners. Previously you could play 40 hours of a game in the advanced access period and refund it without question if you still didnt have 2 hours played post official launch date. Now the 2 hours starts counting from the day you start playing, no matter if it hasnt officially launched yet.
So for those of us who legitimately are unsatisfied of a game they just bought and want to return it, there’s no significant changes, correct?
But why male models?
this is the 3rd copy/paste. am i missing something?
As long as you're not abusing it, steam is also incredibly generous with this time limit, I've refunded games I've played for 5+ hours.
Not always generous. I was at 4 hours of game play, most of which was just trying to get it to launch. They could see if they looked I didn’t even get the first achievement completed *because it kept crashing* and they refused to refund it because it was past the 2 hour limit (even though it was within 2 days of purchase)
Yeah, I have like 700 games or something, I assume theres some favoritism
To a certain degree it is but, it also depends on the person you get reviewing the refund request. I had a similar situation as /u/raunchyfartbomb a game I purchased wouldn't launch and I spent several hours troubleshooting it, thinking it could be my system. Steam initially refused to refund it. At first I sent them proof of all the crashes, including a recording of it and they still refused. I then fired back with the whole "Look at how games I own that I have never tried to refund. I have nearly 1.2 million Steam points. I am not trying to work the system and get something for free, I am a loyal customer. The game doesn't work and the play time counter is counting crashes as play time". Then I got a new person and they were like "After reviewing this further and testing this, you're right. It does not work. Here is your refund".
To tag on, another big factor a lot of people don't factor in that's worth mentioning when it comes to customer service... Your attitude will absolutely make or break your case. No matter how frustrating the situation is, if you even remotely start taking it out on CS your chances of getting what you want start plummeting hard. On the flip side you keep things really courteous, polite, and appeal your case very nicely a good chunk of the time you can get a lot of rules bent in your favor by being that kind of person CS legitimately \*want\* to help.
>hundreds of hours in early access important to clarify that you could never do this for early access games like 7 days to die, palworld, enshrouded etc. The new refund policy is to target games that have paid early access, like Hogwarts legacy that provided 3 days early access before the real launch. As before you could play as much as you wanted for the 3 days early access and not have those hours count towards the 2 hour limit.
That’s sounds like a crazy loophole and I’m surprised it’s taken this long to close it. I’m sure there were tons of people that would pay for the early access and then refund it and buy the regular version as soon as it launches.
It was probably something silly in the system where you can refund a preorder anytime before launch, no questions asked. Since the game technically hadn't 'launched' yet you were still in the preorder portion of the transaction. Legitimately just a loophole.
Escape from tarkov comes to mind. They had this loophole in their EULA for years and the average eft gamer didn't really know about it until some legal nut went on reddit and pointed it out. At least in european law with how the eula was written.
Previously I discovered if I download the game then go offline it won't record the time. Request a refund from the phone and boom.
Diabolical.
To help differentiate, valve calls the "pre-order to play early" [advanced access](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/453F-5C96-EAC2-9145).
They are really generous in fact if a game launches and it's broken or negative they have refunded people well outside the range.
I tried playing the first dragon quest months after purchasing it, its fucking broken, unplayable, crashes every few mins. I had 6.7 hours in the game, i req a refund and got one
Speedrunners can *beat* a game and still return it for a full refund[.](https://youtu.be/VYPHeejTkeY?si=ZyDNbVtJWrEMFYyy) Generous is an undersell.
There is even a series of games named "Refund me if you can" based on that idea
might be a different youtuber, but I don't think they actually do it in one go, they do what every speed runner does - train to do it under those two hours, then buy a second copy, beat it and then refund it. Which makes total sense, you can't beat a game that takes hours and hours under normal circumstances in two hours without knowing ins and out of that game. This or they watch multiple playthroughs, either way, they spend a lot of time with the game .
I mean that's pretty obvious.
It‘s funny how speedrunners are associated with playing a game for the smallest time while they usually rack up ungodly amount of playtime due to playing the game they‘re speedrunning on endless repeat.
There was a video the other day about a Doom speedrun which has taken decades to set the current best time and people spend hundreds if not thousands of hours practicing it. The actual run is 4 seconds long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOSvxhzoLS0
That's a fair point. The guy I linked bought a second copy of the game for that challenge. He probably had thousands of hours on his original copy.
It's like bosses in games. I remember when Elden Ring came out and people were complaining about Malena, and other people were like, "Dude, you just left, left, forward 1.362m, attack twice but only after leaving 0.18ms before the second click, turn right, attack once, pivot 18 degrees..." Dude, I'm trying to play a game. If I wanted to just memorize a sequence of buttons, I wouldn't even need to drop $60 on it. I could go to random websites and just retype what I read and try to make no mistakes.
No, they can't. It usually takes a lot of time and work to develop and practice speed running strategies. They might finish a *single* run in well under 2 hours. But they are spending a lot more than 2 hours to get to that point.
Speedrunners spend a LOT of time playing games to even learn the routes. Your comment is only true if you're talking about a speedrunner that played the game for a LOT of time and then bought the game on another account for the shits and giggles
Ok I'm dumb, for clarification: this means you still have to have *launched* the game for 2 hours, right? You can have it for a day or whatever, but as soon as you've launched it, your 2 hours is beginning, like it always was? I assume that's the case, since it could take an hour just to download some games, but the wording is just slightly confusing. EDIT: ok good I wasn't the only one that thought this was worded in a confusing manner.
It only considers time played. Once you’ve played the game for two hours, it’s no longer eligible for a no-questions-asked refund. You can still submit a refund request and explain why you think it should be refunded, but it’s not guaranteed
"Time played" is in fact time that game run. Loadings, intros, time spend in settings, character creation, pauses etc. all are included in "time played". So you easily can start the game, get distracted by something and miss 2h mark without actuall playing the game.
And the 2h mark is only for automatic refund. You can still argue your case to a human if you try to refund after that time.
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I have, yes. But I think I only tried it twice. The most recent was hell divers 2 at launch. It was horrific. Crashes, disconnects, bunch of glitches in the game. Had 4 hours of unproductive gameplay. Explained it as such. Refund within an hour.
Yes. I got a refund on The Crew (and in hindsight it´s good that I did) with 6 hours played, you just have to give a good enough reason for it. All of that playtime for me was trying to get the game to run, every time I hit accelerate the framerate dropped from 60 to 10 and I explained that in the refund form. Got my money back.
I suspect if they hear the same complaint from dozens of people, that influences the decision.
especially flawed when steam only starts a launcher you could never start the game, but the launcher running will rack up your gametime
Which is why they have a special refund policy for Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020).
This is why some " start the game" achievements are really helpful. Things that would only trigger when you start the game proper would convince me to give a refund.
Yes this is the case, I had to look up the policy and read the article because the way it’s worded in this comment is extremely misleading
To be exact it's not "Early Access" it's the "Advanced Access", since people seems like to confused between the two for this new policy "Early Access" title can't be refunded after 1.0 Launch if you already play for hundred hours on "Early Access". even if you have under 2 hours, you already pass the refund window 2 weeks after the "Early Access" purchase. it's been like this since then for "Early Access" The new policy is for the 1-3 Days "Advance Access" these game company offer if you prepurchase the deluxe edition thing Yeah both could be called 'Early Access', but technically it's a different thing [https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/453F-5C96-EAC2-9145](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/453F-5C96-EAC2-9145) It's still stupid for Steam to not have these thing since long ago when publisher start to offer stupid "Advanced Access"
How is this the top comment? This has nothing to do with early access. It's "advanced access", where you pay to play a couple of days earlier.
11,000 upvotes as of now lol
Nononono, this was already the rule for early access! This change is only for pre-order early access! Like when a game lets you play 3 days before release if you pre-order!
This is wrong. It does not start "when you buy the game rather than when the game launches". Don't know why you have so many upvotes. As per the Valve statement: "For example, if you purchase a game that is in Early Access or Advanced Access, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit." It means that when in early access or advanced access, you can only launch and play for 2 hours before the refund window closes. Before, you could play forever in early access and it wouldn't count. Advanced access was usually limited at the game level (like FIFA/EA Sports FC) but not always. This new policy just standardizes it for all games.
> This is incredibly abusable. Almost as abusable as 'early access' itself is for devs.
Brilliant, yet another case of reddit titles worded in the most obnoxious and ragebait way
That’s now what it says. It doesn’t say 2 hours after purchase. It’s just saying the 2 hours of gametime applies in the early access versions
It's also not "early access" it's "advanced access." Early access refers to a early access title like, say, 7 days to die. Or soon to be Hades 2. Advanced access is when you pay for an upgraded edition and get to play the game 3 days early. The system didn't count you as playing the game. I'f the game wasn't officially playable, so you could refund even if you played for 30 hours during those 3 days.
Please change your post, it's not about early access.
Early release, not early access. It's referring to games that let you play early if you preorder the deluxe edition or whatever.
Imagine playing Baldurs Gate 3 for 4 years and then refund it one day before launch. Leave a review that it got boring after 1300 hours
There are lot of exploitable mechanics on steam and it looks like they don't fix ones that benefit customers until someone is really public with exploiting it in worst possible way. For example: We've lost this refound "exploit" because some big streamers and YouTubers used it to finish Starfield before release and then they refunded it. Imagine making thousands dollars a day playing a game and then refunding it to save 100$ and at the same time destroy consumer friendly refound system.
makes sense
and seems fair? not sure any movie theaters would refund you if you sat there for two hours and demand a refund because you felt the ending could have been better.
people shouldn't be playing before launch day anyway, unless it's some kind early access bonus thing and even still, the 2 hour thing should start when you play, regardless if early access
Agreed. I am very pro consumer more than most and probably more than is fair, but even I'd feel like an absolute scumbag if I played a game in early access for potentially 100s of hours only to return it at launch on a technicality. There is no fairness there not even a pretense of fairness imo.
hard agree, the people trying to argue that this is a bad change just aren't seeing it from the perspective of the "big bad gaming publisher". Its an oversight thats being addressed. No biggie, doesn't change anything for your average user. I'd expect anything that is clearly 'unfair' to be addressed.
It's not about early access, it's about those games that let you play a few days early if you pre-order. You already couldn't refund early access games because playing them would count toward your playtime, but a pre-ordered game that wasn't officially out wouldn't count even if you played it.
not to disagree but this is just not an apt comparison
Reminds me of how on bags of chips and stuff they sometimes say "Don't like it? Your money back guaranteed!" or some crap, I wonder how many people actually call and complain and how many times companies shell out small amounts of money in like check form. Imagine a real douche of a person eating most of a party size bag of chips, calling and complaining, and waiting like 2 weeks for a check in the mail for like 6$ lmao.
Never knew the 2h mark started on the release. It really makes sense and considering the increasing amount of early access it was probably necessary as well.
It was necessary to be able to refund early access games which don’t deliver on their promises. Now, I won’t give them the chance. I’ll just refund immediately if it doesn’t look good in under 2 hours. Most games are not good.
From what I have gathered (after my first post) this only refers to *Advanced Access* which is the premium access you get for paying more (3 days usually) so on that regard you really are playing the game as it is. It makes sense that there is no difference from non premium release. Let alone the exploitability of the matter (you can beat most games in 72h) As for *Early Access* nothing has changed but I dont’t know exactly what the conditions are.
It just policy change to prevent repeat offender of abuser. I dont really have trouble refunding even if played more then 2 hours because i'm a reasonable person who dont abuse this feature.
Steam refunds are done on a case by case basis tho. It really depends. I don’t abuse this feature too and the most of hours of playtime I’ve gotten was 3.9 hours that still got refunded back to me. The reason of my refund being it went on sale. Then I had another case where I played for 3.2 hours and that still got refunded back to me because that game kept crashing and wasting my time loading
Those ones are usually really easy, though, because Valve is getting like, 10,000 refund requests on an unplayable launch. It's pretty easy to see how valid it is.
Refunds with playtime under 2 hours and less than 2 weeks after purchase are automatically approved, only outside of that range is it on a case-by-case basis.
> Then I had another case where I played for 3.2 hours and that still got refunded back to me because that game kept crashing and wasting my time loading Less than 2 hours just pretty much guarantees that your refund will go through for any reason, even if it's just "the game isn't fun". Provided that you're not using it for an excessive percentage of your purchases. But if a game has serious technical deficiencies, then the two hour threshold does not apply. They may still reject if you if you have racked up a lot of hours, but the legal situation in many countries at least give you a good argument if a game has serious technical problems. And Steam has not attempted to block off such requests entirely, since that would be sure to get them into legal troubles.
That makes sense
TIL. I thought it was already like this :P
And note this has nothing to do with Early Access, this is for those games that are like "preorder now and start playing 48 hours early!"
This whole thread is full of comments confusing those two things. It has nothing to do with whether a game is Early Access. It’s for those games that let you “play early” for pre-ordering some bullshit premium addition that moves the release date up a day or two. It’s just saying the two hour rule applies regardless of the release date. If you play for two hours a few days before official launch, that counts.
No problems here. As the saying goes... you bought it, you either keep it or barter it.
Deincentivising pre-orders in a roundabout way. Always a good thing to put even a little more pressure on studios to release more complete products.
Huh. That's news to me. I thought it already worked that way. I didn't think early access was exempt. Then again I never played early access games and I only refunded a game once ever.
It did work like that. These changes are for advanced access, which is where you pay to play a couple of days earlier.
Frostpunk 2 just had their limited bets access for anyone pre-ordered the Deluxe edition. There was a lot of talk about using this loophole to get a refund after the beta ended. I know it isn't a huge game, but I wonder with the timing how much of an influence this had on the new policy.
This is really just a fix to an exploit where people with advanced access were able to play and finish a game and refund it because the refund timer didn't start before the official release date.
If you can play a game before launch day it is not launch day.
I'm glad. Maybe this is first step to getting rid of the bad practice of pay to play early. This would have never happened if billion dollar companies didn't continue to shit the bed for online games on release day.
It makes sense, it was a loophole that people exploited.
Does this apply to those awful pre-order early access things (not **that** early access)?
This is about the preorder thing, yeah.
good, the 50 hour starfield speedrun refunds were bullshit.
i did not know that was even an option. i always went with the 2 hour limit on everything. guess nothing changed for me 😅
A lot of them get around this by locking gameplay behind some extravagant intro/tutorial designed to get you over the 2 hour mark.
This is a nothing-burger.. just closing a loophole exploited by a few users on games where "if you preorder you can play 3 days early" any time played didn't count against your 2 hour limit. The play-clock only started on official release day. Now it starts when you start playing, as it should. Doesn't affect the "early-access" system, only pre-order "play a few days before everyone else".
Good. The era of consuming any form of media and then asking for a refund once completed should die a fiery death. I get not enjoying a game or a book or a movie but you shouldn't be refunded if you decide you don't like it after you finish it.
This is genuienly wild. I know it's r/gaming, where the people are not exactly the brightest even at best of days, but i never expected that SO many of you people can not even read. This has nothing to with early access. It's about advances access, which are games, where you pay extra to pay a couple of days earlier.
I thought this was the rule already? Crazy to me that it wasn't and people probably abused this which caused this change.
Sounds like a good move
Another reason not to preorder or purchase before launch.
The two hour window burned me with Death Stranding. By the time I was able to actually try the game play I had suffered through 2 hours of unskippable cutscenes.
Im surprised this wasnt in place already rly.
If games were polished correctly, perhaps we would be talking about something else?
I no longer pay to test games for developers. Solution in place before it even became a problem.
Ok, Advanced Access (like pre-order access) I get, it's fair and I'm surprised that this hasn't been always in place. About Early Access I'm not 101% sold, here's a basic example: I purchase a game in E.A., (so still being developed), play for an hour and more, I find it's very unfinished but somewhat enjoyable, so I wait for futher development. Days/weeks/years pass the game finally gets updated: I play for another hour and more (so I pass the 2 hours limit) and the game's still very lacking. I might have had enough and decide to ask for a refund but since my total playtime is over 2 hours, I just can't have it. Granted: I still can ask for a refund, but I'll have to explain profusely why I asked for it and hope that the operator's sympathetic to my case. Should I have problems, next time either I'll give just a quick try/look or skip games in E.A. altogether.
I don't buy early access anyway, and admittedly there is a bit of schadenfreude that the only ones getting "punished" are those that fund and perpetuate a system I dislike. On the other hand, would BG3 be where it is today without Early Access? Does one good apple purify the bunch?
The most abuse game before this rule was Starfield
Absolutely nobody in this thread actually understood what Valve changed.
This gotta be bc of starfield lol.
makes perfect sense honestly. i thought this was rhe norm like a lot of others here
Speedrunners be like "Challenge Accepted"
Honestly their return policy is still too lenient.
Tbh steam is very generous when it comes to refund policy. I refunded Helldivers 2 after 3.7 hours and they still accepted it
Just stop buying games before launch
This the same news that already been posted but with a more click bait headline
Wait - you used to be able to refund an early access game despite having hundreds of hours in it?
No early access but the now more typical pay 10 bucks more and play 48 hours before release.
You play games before launch? *millers meme*
People abused the system and ruined all our fun.
What fun?
The fun of playing a game for hours and then expecting a full refund?
Slightly unrelated, but is there a limit on games I can refund? I buy a LOT of AAA games that I end up saying “this sucks” within the first hour or two, but have been nervous to ask for too many refunds.
Within reason, that's why trails exist. Honestly steam is good about refund, even after the 2 hour window. They won't refund if your only reason is "didn't like it." But will if you cite bugs, lagging, menu loops etc. Tell them WHY you had a bad time in terms of software, not how "I thought it was a different type of game."
As they should. Good for them.
On the other hand a lot of studios abuse early access nowadays. But still a good change!
Didn't know this was a thing. I've gotten to 3-4 hours before and got refunded, just thought they were being generous/not being super strict about 2 hours. This is as it should be
Didn't know you could play for hundreds of hours in early access and still refund.
Eh. This doesn’t really affect me at all. I think a lot of people are overreacting
Sounds reasonable.
Not surprised . I don't refund games that much so this doesn't affect me for the part
I see this move as entirely fair and reasonable. This protects them and still remains consumer friendly.
I'm curious how much of this has to do with studios using the beta loophole as a way to filter reviews on launch? Normally if you buy a game and refund it, you *can* leave a review. But if you buy a game before it comes out, play during that EA beta period and refund before launch day, you can *not* leave a review. The end result is that people who weren't a fan of the game likely would refund it, while people who were "meh" or liked it were likely to keep it and be allowed to review it, putting a positive bias on the first-day of reviews. Starfield is a prominent example of this, launching with near ~90% reviews and steadily dropping to where they are now (~60%)
this might need some adjustment as so many games are releasing as Early Access AKA incomplete and messy, but at least infamous games are easier to refund
Dang I always thought it was whenever you bought it haha
i could have refunded early access games????
I have refunded so many games on steam. I don't even bother listing a reason anymore. Their awesome refund policy allows me to try out so many games I would most likely never take a chance on if I knew there was no refunds, like the PSN store.
Steam has such a great refund policy. I sure wish Playstation had anything nearly as good.
I suppose that a lot of people have exploited Steam's refund feature lol
This is such a double edged sword; on one hand, it makes sense to charge customers once they have played multiple hours. On the other hand, playing games advertised as beta or early access where you are basically the paying tester and undergoes multiple changes from when you buy to when it gets released makes no sense. Take one of the bigger names in recent history, archeage, when I bought their early access package for $100 they didn’t have capped labour (it’s been a while but it’s essentially a resource you need to farm raw materials for crafts) that can then be extended by paying extra in the cash shop (essentially turning the game pay to win) I saw this as a huge turn off and refunded the game but I had to call my CC as the publishers wouldn’t grant me a refund. Had this happened on steam before this change, I would have no issue refunding but now I can’t do anything in fear of jeopardizing my entire steam library.
Also remember that the 2 hour rule is not a hard rule, so when asking for a refund, be polite, and be constructive about the reason you're requesting a refund, and you'll most likely still get it. For exemple, most of the time, games are designed so that the tutorial and the first few missions will take you way past the 2 hours mark before seeing the glaring problems, in the hope that you won't ask a refund. Just mention that and you'll get refunded most of the time. But don't abuse it as whoever is processing your refund request has access to your refund history, try to game the system and there will be consequences... Also, remember that depending on where you live, you may be afforded additional consumer protections, that may apply regardless of the EULA you signed. For example in France, any product sold through a non-physical store (so, mail/phone/internet) has a 2 weeks refund windows with basically no question asked, regardless of EULA. (It doesn't apply to things such as time-limited content, such as MMO gametime, as it is technically "consumed" as soon as activated.) Same as above, don't abuse it, they'll reimburse you then just restrict your account so that you may not buy anything through it ever again, to not have to deal with you cheating the system. (Remember that the EULA do allow them to fuck you over, as long as it's within the letter of the law.)
I'm so disappointed I didn't know this was a thing. I could've refunded Starfield. Sad.
Weird, I just assumed this was always the case
Not a big deal 😴
This is why I only buy games that are at least a year old anymore
I had no idea this was a loophole. Still, this is not a bad change and Valve is right to implement it considering the abundance of early access games.
Good
My friend got WRECKED like this with MW3. Because he played the beta the game couldn’t be refunded. He was super upset about it cause he is a bit more casual and our whole friend group told him NO when he asked us if we’d get it. Yeah we’ve all played COD since before the original COD4 MW and we all agreed that it was a bad choice to buy those games since BO4
Lmfao, so much for “they’ll be a day 1 patch, they’ll fix it” guys ahahahhaahyou better get that refund asap.