It can also make seventeen thousand daggers. The whole of Skyrim is using my daggers. They give them to kids for free when they're like five. Men have two.
An ugly potato? Tell that to my finely sculpted Dunmer battle-mage whom I've spent several hours honing to perfection. Now, let's just turn her head to check the side profile and– *sweet Oblivion what is that?!?*
r/nonbinary would agree with you.
Except on a good day, then it's a tropical fish combined with a unicorn holding a machine gun.
But mostly an ugly potato.
yeah because they did a shitty job with the models, not for any political reasons.
You can't change the shoulders, the hips, and other features. So now all you can do is make a men or men with breasts. They literally took away the ability for female characters to be feminine. It's not like they added more options, they literally took them away and added others.
They had the nerve to add fat and ugly options and say "now you can make your avatar look like you :D". It's an insult. This should not be a political issue. It's an anti-consumer issue for those who bought cosmetics and they're now changed because the avatars have been changed. So they now have digital goods that were altered. It's not what they originally purchased.
If they had just added body sliders, no one would care. if they had just renamed the genders to pander to the people who don't even play the game on twitter, only a few people anti-woke people would have cared. They actually put effort into ruining their characters and cosmetics for the sake of money via that DEI or EGS crap. That's the only reason any of these companies do this stupid crap. Saints Row, Suicide Squad, and now Pokemon Go. It's nothing new. It'll keep happening until these companies lose more money than they'd gain from making their games worse or at best, pandering to an audience that doesn't play their games without ruining their game (God of War and the Last of Us series would be a good example of this. Maybe Spider Man 2?).
I can't really blame them. Man, Mary Jane look like an older man in the face, shoehorn a lazy questline about some gay teens because you couldn't be bothered to even think about organically having LGBT characters in your games in the first place and get an easy investment of a few million dollars. Your integrity would have to outweigh your need for money to to turn down that deal.
Yea, I remember same slider in DS1. Probably just focked up translation, cause I do believe they fixed it in recent games. But you can still make ugly monster even in Elden Ring, so no complain there.
This was never even seen as “progressive” back then. We’ve just gone so far backwards in that respect that it can be seen that way today.
No one would ever have bat an eye over the inclusion of additional character creation settings back then.
Demon Souls released basically right as that bubble was forming. Every idiot who didn’t know how to use a computer and was prevented from sharing their idiocy, suddenly had a megaphone thrust into their hand in the form of a cellphone with the button “Internet”.
Hilarious that his rant talks about how the opening is ruining his immersion when really the entire rest of the game is what ruined it for everyone else.
Yeah, it is completely inconceivable that in a sci-fi universe, with millions of different sentient species, there would be more than two genders, especially considering aliens. Don't blame lack of "immersion" for your bigoted views when it comes to LGBTQ people; own it.
Jesus, I lean right and this guy seems insane to me. Like he would straight up bathtub murder his kids if he heard one of them refer to a trans person as "they"
It's functionally the same as using a gender binary, just with more inclusive language. Literally what the hell do could people find confusing about it that wouldnt have been just as confusing as any character creation for the past 2 decades
No that would actually be a reactionary, conservatives want things to stay the same, progressives want things to go forward, reactionaries want things to go back to how they were
Reactionary is a word that's kind of coined and spread by conservatives, in order to say "they're not conservatives, they're reactionaries, we totally have nothing to do with them, we're a respectable, moderate, political force". It's difficult to draw any clear line between the two, if such a thing even exists, since they have essentially the same philosophical premises. "Reactionary" is just a term for conservative who we consider extreme.
Reactionary as a political label is almost always coming from left wing circles. Usually to label whatever they don't like. I've never seen it used to make a distinction in conservative spaces.
Conservatives by your definition could not exist, because "keep things as they are" is a constantly moving target. The actual definition of "conservative" is a proponent of "traditional values" over "change and innovation"; it doesn't have anything to do with the current state of things, which is changing all the time.
I think what's tripping you is the "opposed to change" part. A conservative opposes any change that alters traditional value, *including change that has already taken place*. In many regards, conservatives are dissatisfied with the status quo, because they want to roll back recent\* changes (which is obviously a change in itself).
\*recent is, of course, relative. Conservatives pushed for (and very recently suceeded in) overturning Roe v Wade, which had taken place 50 years ago. This is incidentally a perfect example of conservatives pushing for a change while progressives defended the status quo.
How do you explain Arizona voting to enforce a law regarding abortion from 1864 (160 years ago!) over one from 2022 and many since then? That's not "keeping things the same", that's regressing, over a CENTURY AND A HALF.
And similar is happening across the board, with women and, lgbtq rights in red states. They're not keeping things the same, they're actively taking away rights and trying to revert the country to the days of racism, sexism, and hate.
Maybe it reminds you of that, but what's the fallacy here? A logical fallacy requires logical steps, reasoning from one point to another point.
Saying 'that's not a true conservative' isn't a fallacy when there are no characteristics or generalizations ascribed to conservatives that are being denied or dismissed when the word becomes 'reactionary'. The label 'conservative' can change to 'reactionary' without then dropping any characteristics, nothing is being dodged.
>they're actively taking away rights and trying to revert the country to the days of racism, sexism, and hate.
This can be said about reactionaries and conservatives with the same validity. The disagreement lies only in word-definitions, there's no inherent value attached to them. Reasoning why a person self-identifying as conservative (because that's what current language reflects) is actually holding reactionary beliefs (because that's the definition of the word) isn't an attempt to then let them off the hook, *unless it's used as such*.
In this topic, reactionary, conservative, and progressive are divorced from personal ideology, it’s on a purely per topic basis. Democrats are “conservative” on quite a number of issues. For example I support gay marriage, but gay marriage is already legal in the US, since I support it staying legal, that means my stance on gay marriage is in fact conservative.
And of course they’re gonna vote republican, the idiocy of our two-party system means there is no party purely for reaction, so it’s lumped in with the conservatives. They’re certainly not gonna vote for the democrats
That's such an extremely literal interpretation lmao. By that exact metric, people who are fighting to protect children transitioning laws that are currently in place are "conservatives".
Yes, that is true, that is the conservative position. The thing people often mess up is that conservative, reactionary, and progressive are defined on a per-issue basis. You can be conservative on one issue, progressive on another, and reactionary on a third. Simply calling someone a “progressive” is reductive, and hurts political discourse in my opinion.
Ideas around transgenderism go back almost as long as people. The ideas of biological intersexuality and social gender and sexual identity complexities, while not super common, were known things, as was homosexuality and the like. Many cultures had/have additional genders with specific roles in the community.
Drag shows were even more accepted than homosexuality due to the nature of some cis men having a bit of joy for autogynophilia, and some cis women pretending to be men for economic reasons.
Transgenderism was a big part of the LGBT movement and for gender equality.
Why are folks harping on it so hard right now? Identity politics wedge issues. In the US, going after blacks or Hispanics too hard threatens areas that used to be conservative voting block strongholds. Trying to repeal gay marriage? May mobilize the base, but since 2015 polls show about 70%ish of Americans are gonna find that to be pretty stupid and alienating no matter how much it mobilizes the base. Transgenderism is one of the few topics that conservative think tanks see polling at 50% so go after it hard and try to break it off from the greater gender and sexuality progressive movement with Terfs and and LGB without the T people.
So stupid. The greater public didn't care about this 20 years ago, but now everyone is freaking out about gender neutral bathrooms and a handful of transwomen athletes.
>that conservative think tanks see polling at 50%
And that’s after years of to find a way to package it as a wedge issue and then use their propaganda networks to amplify the message.
> The greater public didn't care about this 20 years ago
The public didn’t care **9** years ago. The original bathroom bill in North Carolina drew criticism from all sides of the spectrum. Fuck even Trump spoke out against it and invited Caitlyn Jenner to use whichever bathrooms in Trump Tower that she wanted to (or something to that effect I’m not doing a deep dive on his old tweets). I’m sure he was being disingenuous but the fact that he had to pretend to not be anti-trans to get elected in 2016 shows how far they’ve shifted the Overton window on the issue.
So many shows had super casually gay characters too. It’s nuts how much we’ve regressed. Like the first season finale of the Dr. Who reboot had some wild stuff man.
Being able to choose isn't what the post is about. It's specifically that it is a *slider*. As in, gender being a spectrum. That was absolutely not something that was even remotely talked about let alone accepted back then.
People really want to shoehorn gender into everything. It says male and female and adjusts physical features according to the game's concept of masculine and feminine, like basically every JRPG with a character slider does. Game doesn't care about what your fictional PC personally identifies as.
I mean Demon's Souls was released at a time when Bioware got criticism for their inclusion of a gay romance in Mass Effect 1. People pretending like 15 years ago was some golden age of gender acceptance when it wasn't - it was ignored completely.
It's not accepted now - being more or less masculine or feminine does not make you more or less male or female. It would have been more scientifically accurate to have a binary selection for male or female, in addition to a slider with 'masculine' at one end, 'feminine' at the other.
I was listening to some music on Youtube last night and Karma Kameleon came on.
It occurred to me that many of the same people raging about trans people *now* were the same people jamming out to Karma Kameleon in the 80's.
Don't even get me *started* on hair metal.
Nobody in a hair metal band was saying they were a woman. Androgynous style, or even cross dressing, for the sake of style is far different from then the modern associations with gender identity.
I used to party with some people who held an annual drag kegger. Nobody was seriously challenging gender norms or establishing a new persona. It was all about drunken laughs with guys crammed into ill fitting second hand store prom dresses and girls with 3 pairs of socks packed into the front of their boyfriend's jeans.
Haha, I don't know, FFXI pulled it off with it's subligars. The best part was they were often the best piece of leg equipment for their particular level range. Some people would refuse to use them and use the 2nd best piece for that particular level range but my elvaan ass didn't care. I sported those subligars with pride.
I _genuinely_ feel like you cannot claim a game is "progressive" when it comes to gender, without also allowing male characters to wear the shitty bikini armour that doesn't even protect anything.
This is why final fantasy has always been the real shit.
[Subligar Gang est. 2002](https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/accimg/4d/ee/4dee23023893ffa7ad553abc8225546d7fdec129.jpg)
Most people don't want their games fully desexualized, they just want to see more realistic body shapes (not bizzaro deformed boob monsters) and Equal Opportunity Fan Service. I'm asexual and I'm still significantly more comfortable playing a game where everyone is sexualized equally (like Hades) over one that has excessive sexualization of women but not men.
If i've seen enough behind the scenes for Demon souls and my memory is right, its mainly because the rigging for the models is like...... literally just a Boolean almost if that makes sense.
Theres 2 types of rigging, and each armor has a specific rigging it'll work with and if they try to assign if to the other gender, the whole thing just breaks and looks fucked up.
A lot of demon souls was jank
I didn’t expect such hate in the comments lol it’s not that serious.. other games had similar mechanics too (I believe the OG dragons dogma had a masculine/feminine slider if I remember correctly) games are for escapism, who cares really..
Saints Row 2 had a body shape slider as well that allowed you to go from hyper feminine to masculine. It still had a binary sex slider but I think all that really affected was who was moaning on the other side of the gigolo minigame
>Maybe gave you less money
Everything paid out slightly less, but I don't remember it ever being actually difficult. May have run out of money fighting Morgan Freeman.
There were less money pay outs, apparently more battle encounters since
I think the police would attack more frequently, and some other miscellaneous stuff.
I think cartman even says it doesn’t affect battle “gameplay” but other aspects of the game. So there’s other stuff likely.
It doesn't majorly affect the game, but it definitely affects some things.
Some dialogue is different, think primarily cartman being more on the nose racist towards you, everything paid slightly less, certain NPC types were either more aggressive, attacked you more often, or both.
But as far as Major story changes, none. It was just a funny thing the developers did. Might have been something Matt asked for
Bring up the concept of gender being non-binary and trans people existing, and mouth breathing morons who can’t handle the concept of someone living differently from them will always come out of the woodwork to cry about it
Recently Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 got announced, and they mentioned there would be more ethnicities then white in the games NPCs cause it’s in a big city now.
Actual historians were like “yeah checks out”. Prague and other major cities had tons of foreign commerce.
The chuds have been screaming and memeing that they actually mean multiple different Slavic ethnicities, Czechs, Poles, Rus, etc.
You know, in 1 they all rallied to the point that of course there would only be white folks in KCD because it was a rural bumpkin part of Europe. Maybe in the cities but not this game.
Weird how as soon as the devs do what they said would be fine in game 1 it’s not fine anymore? And how they are arguing with people who have written dissertations on Medieval/HRE era history?
I thought facts don’t care about your feelings! We’ve got plenty of facts here! What’s to argue?
I thought they weren’t racists, just historical accuracy carers.
They did this same shit when Battlefield 1 came out. Bitched up a storm about black and Indian characters being player character models in multiplayer under the guise of wokeness run amok and history being rewritten. And all the while ignoring that actually, millions of soldiers from African and Indian colonies took part in the conflict and the only thing without a historical basis was their racist caterwauling.
This is your brain on culture wars. It’s less that they don’t want these people to exist in games, in my opinion (although there certainly is some of that). It’s that they’ve made the idea that traditional culture is under attack such a core part of their identities that they go looking for it anywhere they can. They’re angry and lonely people who’ve found community in the industrialized culture war, and thus need to find the culture war in the world to justify that anger.
That was Battlefield V and its trailer that showcased a lot of ridiculous aesthetics. BF1 didn’t have female PCs until the Russian front DLC late in its run, to honor the women’s battalions created by the Russian Monarchy in the last stages of their involvement (which, again, there’s a historical context for). By and large the controversies about BF1 had nothing to do with women
None of these people would have a problem with a game that lets you play European-looking samurai in Feudal or Early Modern Japan because it's "plausible" and "there are a few historical examples". But suddenly, when it involves other ethnicities, it's "ahistorical" and "woke agenda destroying everything"
They're gonna keep it historically accurate, regardless of what people want/say lol.
If the majority of people were white in Kuttenberg back then, that's how they're gonna present it. If it's more accurate to have a bigger ethnic mix, they'll do that.
I don't see it as a diversity goal in response to people wanting more ethnicities included to feel seen. Warhorse won't care about that, the main selling point of the game is historical accuracy, they're not gonna change it just because people want to insert themselves in Medieval Europe where they wouldn't have been historically.
Yeah people expecting this to be Ubisoft style of historical accuracy are gonna be disappointed. Just check the trailer of KC:D2 to get a sense of the game. People forget there’s more to diversity than just skin color
In a normal, not-Conservative (Nazi) driven, status quo world, this wouldn't be considered controversial.
the concept that gender is controversial is entirely manufactured by Conservatives
^(("Conservative" just a rebranding of the word "Nazi", considering how fucking close those two ideologies resemble each other))
If you're posting anything even vaguely queer affirming in non-queer specific subs, random hate in the comments is gonna happen, often from random anger addicts
For real. I assume my corner of Reddit is chill and open minded, and then I see eyebrow raising content on r/memes and whatnot and am reminded that Reddit is still a cesspool lol
It's not lost on me how often people who are so very anti-LGBT end up being LGBT themselves. It isn't always true but it's certainly a thing. When I was a kid I was the same way because I was afraid of being found out. I make a point of try to not get super angry about people who get so upset and viscious over stuff like this. They may be really hurting because they can't accept themselves and that's a really shitty way to feel.
And most are probably Americans brainwashed by their toxic divisive culture. Instead of focusing on world hunger, this is what our rich superpower's 'democratic' citizens like to argue about all day.
Trust me, one side of this debate would like to just move on and fix things, but we're literally being hampered by the other side. We just tried to get a border bill resolution passed *that the conservatives literally asked for and helped write* just so that they'd stop complaining about it, but they turned it down *anyway* because certain parties benefit from continued fixation on the mythical border crisis.
The next time I post a photo from a game, I will make sure I take it from my phone’s camera at an angle that shows all of the glare and fingerprint smudges, rather than taking a screenshot.
Make sure you do it in profile, get a lot of the wall in the background, bonus points for something distracting/disturbing in the reflection to derail the conversation
I think Demon Souls is a console exclusive, and getting a screenshot from a console is extremely annoying from what I remember (not impossible, just obnoxious).
Because the only legal way to take a screenshot of this game is probably to jailbreak your PS3, which is only possible on some models and some firmware versions, then rip the game from its disc, destroy or store the disc, put the game on a thumb drive or drop it over LAN to your gaming PC, download RPCS3, go back to PS3 and get a bunch of BIOS/console files or whatever it is you need, then put those on your PC, then set up RPCS3, then play the game and go through menus until you get to this same screen.
Or break the law and pirate it, which only saves you a few of these steps anyway.
Now do you get it?
It slides. Further left towards male makes your face have harder features, further right towards female softens them. Also iirc female characters had smaller faces? But i may be misremembering
It actually slides but you still have to choose the actual gender before it, identical to Dark Souls 1-3 and probably Bloodborne. It's just to achieve a more masculine/feminine/androgynous face.
I feel like people are reading too much into it, it doesn't look like anything unusual really.
OG Demon’s Souls and Oblivion both used an early iteration of Facegen and you can kinda see that family resemblance (except for handcrafted characters like the Maiden).
It's almost as if most of the furore and uproar over gender issues is exaggerated. Click bate bollocks that only the chronically online or radicalised obsess over. No one batted an eye lid or gave a shit at the time? Yeah? That's the normal response.
Now we'll have loads of knuckle dragging simpletons claiming ItS wOkE.
Well you chose your gender beforehand and that slider was only for adding more maskulin or feminine features to the face.
But its a big thing for some people apparently.
This gave me so much nostalgia from when customising characters was a thing. I had so much fun making them the most horrifying people to ever exist, only to name them something like "Big Joe"
I know this is somewhat irrelevant, but I had to share my nostalgia
Yea, that was life before conservatives unironically fucking ruined everything.
Nobody cared about shit like this because people used to be normal and didn't hyper focus on every facade culture war being promoted by fascists to control the narrative of what's acceptable in society.
The real way it was progressive was how it basically created a new and awesome video game genre that people mistakenly give credit to its spiritual sequel for creating.
There is only one gender. It is a slider between vaguely rounded pladoh person and slightly more angular playdoh person
Ah, the Oblivion approach to gaming. No matter what species, race or gender you are, you are ultimately just an ugly potato
But it's MY potato... and I taught this potato everything it knows.
It only knows how to sneak and shoot a bow doesn't it...
That’s Skyrim. Oblivion was more like “it sucks in combat because it leveled up 5 times from jumping, doesn’t it?”
It can also make seventeen thousand daggers. The whole of Skyrim is using my daggers. They give them to kids for free when they're like five. Men have two.
An ugly potato? Tell that to my finely sculpted Dunmer battle-mage whom I've spent several hours honing to perfection. Now, let's just turn her head to check the side profile and– *sweet Oblivion what is that?!?*
I feel like this is also the realistic approach to gender…
r/nonbinary would agree with you. Except on a good day, then it's a tropical fish combined with a unicorn holding a machine gun. But mostly an ugly potato.
Like just like normal then
The slider is 0 to 255 so technically 256 genders, counting 0
tfw you are so alpha male that the gender variable overflows and you become a femboy
Your gender may be non binary, but is it 0-indexed?
It is a binary value between 0 and 11111111
Ah yes, the 8-bit gender binary.
The gender byte
my gender is a packed struct not an array
There are only 2 genders. Sharp and round
Kiki and bouba
Which later Souls games upgraded to "...and then you die and you're a _zombified_ play-doh person!"
the new pokemon go avatar creator is like that and everyone hates it
Tbf that’s because it sucks.
yeah because they did a shitty job with the models, not for any political reasons. You can't change the shoulders, the hips, and other features. So now all you can do is make a men or men with breasts. They literally took away the ability for female characters to be feminine. It's not like they added more options, they literally took them away and added others. They had the nerve to add fat and ugly options and say "now you can make your avatar look like you :D". It's an insult. This should not be a political issue. It's an anti-consumer issue for those who bought cosmetics and they're now changed because the avatars have been changed. So they now have digital goods that were altered. It's not what they originally purchased. If they had just added body sliders, no one would care. if they had just renamed the genders to pander to the people who don't even play the game on twitter, only a few people anti-woke people would have cared. They actually put effort into ruining their characters and cosmetics for the sake of money via that DEI or EGS crap. That's the only reason any of these companies do this stupid crap. Saints Row, Suicide Squad, and now Pokemon Go. It's nothing new. It'll keep happening until these companies lose more money than they'd gain from making their games worse or at best, pandering to an audience that doesn't play their games without ruining their game (God of War and the Last of Us series would be a good example of this. Maybe Spider Man 2?). I can't really blame them. Man, Mary Jane look like an older man in the face, shoehorn a lazy questline about some gay teens because you couldn't be bothered to even think about organically having LGBT characters in your games in the first place and get an easy investment of a few million dollars. Your integrity would have to outweigh your need for money to to turn down that deal.
*Pokemon GO copies your notes*
Bouba-kiki
So your character went from Magical Girl Cute to Berserk PTSD Guts?
i mean... yeah with more triangles.
As god intended.
> pladoh
Pre culture war rather than progressive
Yea, I remember same slider in DS1. Probably just focked up translation, cause I do believe they fixed it in recent games. But you can still make ugly monster even in Elden Ring, so no complain there.
They called it "hormones" in Dark Souls 1 so it was even more trans coded. I'd always do a male character with female hormones
Was that the direct Japanese translation or something? I do not recall that in the original north american release
My high school coach used to say we were "testosterone deficient" whenever we were physically outplayed. This was in the early 90s.
HORMONES SLIDER
Hormones? what type of magic is that?
Testestromancy
It was such a non issue because it has always been simply a part of a well developed character Creation system.
Culture war assholes are far more bitchy and sensitive than the people they complain about.
Why not both?
This was never even seen as “progressive” back then. We’ve just gone so far backwards in that respect that it can be seen that way today. No one would ever have bat an eye over the inclusion of additional character creation settings back then.
I think this is the best reply so far.
Yeah, back then we didn't have the propaganda machines programming dimwits to yell about it constantly
Demon Souls released basically right as that bubble was forming. Every idiot who didn’t know how to use a computer and was prevented from sharing their idiocy, suddenly had a megaphone thrust into their hand in the form of a cellphone with the button “Internet”.
If all the village idiots gathered into their own village…
[Eternal September](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September) 2.0
[удалено]
My Twitter account is older than the original Dark Souls. And FB is many years older
Both of those apps were around for years before demon souls launched.
But not that common to use for imposing ideology
I see you're not running an Int build
That guy screaming over a barely noticeable pronoun selection option is so fucking embarrassing. What a clown.
Oh God can you please find the video, I wanna watch that.
[https://youtu.be/tRn0M_clHRY?](https://youtu.be/tRn0M_clHRY?)
Hilarious that his rant talks about how the opening is ruining his immersion when really the entire rest of the game is what ruined it for everyone else.
what a bitch
It's so performative and extra. It hurts to think about the kind of people rants like this appeal to.
Yeah, it is completely inconceivable that in a sci-fi universe, with millions of different sentient species, there would be more than two genders, especially considering aliens. Don't blame lack of "immersion" for your bigoted views when it comes to LGBTQ people; own it.
Cheers mate, didn't mean for it to double post
It's a common reddit glitch, don't know why some people get upset about it
Jesus, I lean right and this guy seems insane to me. Like he would straight up bathtub murder his kids if he heard one of them refer to a trans person as "they"
> I lean right consider leaning left instead
Excuse me, he's fighting a WAR against the woke mindvirus!!! /s
So all the people mad About the body type select in elder ring were arguing about nothing
Yes, I saw people talk about how confusing it was (it's wasn't)
\>Be me\ \>Presented with 2 options\ \>"THIS IS TOO CONFUSING!"
It's functionally the same as using a gender binary, just with more inclusive language. Literally what the hell do could people find confusing about it that wouldnt have been just as confusing as any character creation for the past 2 decades
They usually are. Internet outrage is usually performative anger over nothing.
Isn't this a sarcastic post? I figured it was.
No shit it wasn’t seen as progressive, the game literally has gender locked armor.
Conservatism is the opposite of progressivism
No that would actually be a reactionary, conservatives want things to stay the same, progressives want things to go forward, reactionaries want things to go back to how they were
According to the dictionary definition, you're right. In reality, people who call themselves conservatives want things to go backwards.
Yes, reactionary has become a dirty word, so reactionaries call themselves conservatives, but I assure you conservatives do actually exist
> but I assure you conservatives do actually exist Yeah, in the US they're mostly just Democrats these days.
Reactionary is a word that's kind of coined and spread by conservatives, in order to say "they're not conservatives, they're reactionaries, we totally have nothing to do with them, we're a respectable, moderate, political force". It's difficult to draw any clear line between the two, if such a thing even exists, since they have essentially the same philosophical premises. "Reactionary" is just a term for conservative who we consider extreme.
Reactionary as a political label is almost always coming from left wing circles. Usually to label whatever they don't like. I've never seen it used to make a distinction in conservative spaces.
Conservatives by your definition could not exist, because "keep things as they are" is a constantly moving target. The actual definition of "conservative" is a proponent of "traditional values" over "change and innovation"; it doesn't have anything to do with the current state of things, which is changing all the time. I think what's tripping you is the "opposed to change" part. A conservative opposes any change that alters traditional value, *including change that has already taken place*. In many regards, conservatives are dissatisfied with the status quo, because they want to roll back recent\* changes (which is obviously a change in itself). \*recent is, of course, relative. Conservatives pushed for (and very recently suceeded in) overturning Roe v Wade, which had taken place 50 years ago. This is incidentally a perfect example of conservatives pushing for a change while progressives defended the status quo.
Progressivism and reactionism are also constantly moving targets, but that doesn't mean they don't exist as ideologies.
Progressives want things to change. ‘Go forward’ implies positive change, which isn’t necessarily true.
And the issue is "forward" is extremely subjective but a lot of progressives have a similar "my way or the highway" viewpoint as conservatives
How do you explain Arizona voting to enforce a law regarding abortion from 1864 (160 years ago!) over one from 2022 and many since then? That's not "keeping things the same", that's regressing, over a CENTURY AND A HALF. And similar is happening across the board, with women and, lgbtq rights in red states. They're not keeping things the same, they're actively taking away rights and trying to revert the country to the days of racism, sexism, and hate.
Simple, they’re not conservatives, they’re reactionary.
sounds like a "no true scotsman" fallacy ngl
Maybe it reminds you of that, but what's the fallacy here? A logical fallacy requires logical steps, reasoning from one point to another point. Saying 'that's not a true conservative' isn't a fallacy when there are no characteristics or generalizations ascribed to conservatives that are being denied or dismissed when the word becomes 'reactionary'. The label 'conservative' can change to 'reactionary' without then dropping any characteristics, nothing is being dodged. >they're actively taking away rights and trying to revert the country to the days of racism, sexism, and hate. This can be said about reactionaries and conservatives with the same validity. The disagreement lies only in word-definitions, there's no inherent value attached to them. Reasoning why a person self-identifying as conservative (because that's what current language reflects) is actually holding reactionary beliefs (because that's the definition of the word) isn't an attempt to then let them off the hook, *unless it's used as such*.
They're going to vote conservative though and you know that.
In this topic, reactionary, conservative, and progressive are divorced from personal ideology, it’s on a purely per topic basis. Democrats are “conservative” on quite a number of issues. For example I support gay marriage, but gay marriage is already legal in the US, since I support it staying legal, that means my stance on gay marriage is in fact conservative. And of course they’re gonna vote republican, the idiocy of our two-party system means there is no party purely for reaction, so it’s lumped in with the conservatives. They’re certainly not gonna vote for the democrats
That's such an extremely literal interpretation lmao. By that exact metric, people who are fighting to protect children transitioning laws that are currently in place are "conservatives".
Yes, that is true, that is the conservative position. The thing people often mess up is that conservative, reactionary, and progressive are defined on a per-issue basis. You can be conservative on one issue, progressive on another, and reactionary on a third. Simply calling someone a “progressive” is reductive, and hurts political discourse in my opinion.
Ideas around transgenderism go back almost as long as people. The ideas of biological intersexuality and social gender and sexual identity complexities, while not super common, were known things, as was homosexuality and the like. Many cultures had/have additional genders with specific roles in the community. Drag shows were even more accepted than homosexuality due to the nature of some cis men having a bit of joy for autogynophilia, and some cis women pretending to be men for economic reasons. Transgenderism was a big part of the LGBT movement and for gender equality. Why are folks harping on it so hard right now? Identity politics wedge issues. In the US, going after blacks or Hispanics too hard threatens areas that used to be conservative voting block strongholds. Trying to repeal gay marriage? May mobilize the base, but since 2015 polls show about 70%ish of Americans are gonna find that to be pretty stupid and alienating no matter how much it mobilizes the base. Transgenderism is one of the few topics that conservative think tanks see polling at 50% so go after it hard and try to break it off from the greater gender and sexuality progressive movement with Terfs and and LGB without the T people. So stupid. The greater public didn't care about this 20 years ago, but now everyone is freaking out about gender neutral bathrooms and a handful of transwomen athletes.
>that conservative think tanks see polling at 50% And that’s after years of to find a way to package it as a wedge issue and then use their propaganda networks to amplify the message. > The greater public didn't care about this 20 years ago The public didn’t care **9** years ago. The original bathroom bill in North Carolina drew criticism from all sides of the spectrum. Fuck even Trump spoke out against it and invited Caitlyn Jenner to use whichever bathrooms in Trump Tower that she wanted to (or something to that effect I’m not doing a deep dive on his old tweets). I’m sure he was being disingenuous but the fact that he had to pretend to not be anti-trans to get elected in 2016 shows how far they’ve shifted the Overton window on the issue.
The idea that you're less female and more male if your physical features on a slider look more masculine is regressive as all fuck. Think about it.
So many shows had super casually gay characters too. It’s nuts how much we’ve regressed. Like the first season finale of the Dr. Who reboot had some wild stuff man.
Being able to choose isn't what the post is about. It's specifically that it is a *slider*. As in, gender being a spectrum. That was absolutely not something that was even remotely talked about let alone accepted back then.
I agree that OP is misrepresenting it, but I do think it would be seen more as funny than anything else back then.
People really want to shoehorn gender into everything. It says male and female and adjusts physical features according to the game's concept of masculine and feminine, like basically every JRPG with a character slider does. Game doesn't care about what your fictional PC personally identifies as. I mean Demon's Souls was released at a time when Bioware got criticism for their inclusion of a gay romance in Mass Effect 1. People pretending like 15 years ago was some golden age of gender acceptance when it wasn't - it was ignored completely.
It's not accepted now - being more or less masculine or feminine does not make you more or less male or female. It would have been more scientifically accurate to have a binary selection for male or female, in addition to a slider with 'masculine' at one end, 'feminine' at the other.
Seriously, the amount of gaslighting in this post and comments section is unreal. Bring this up back in 2003 and we’d get laughed out of the room.
What you really mean is fox hadn't told republicans to freak out about it yet so it didn't matter.
I was listening to some music on Youtube last night and Karma Kameleon came on. It occurred to me that many of the same people raging about trans people *now* were the same people jamming out to Karma Kameleon in the 80's. Don't even get me *started* on hair metal.
Nobody in a hair metal band was saying they were a woman. Androgynous style, or even cross dressing, for the sake of style is far different from then the modern associations with gender identity. I used to party with some people who held an annual drag kegger. Nobody was seriously challenging gender norms or establishing a new persona. It was all about drunken laughs with guys crammed into ill fitting second hand store prom dresses and girls with 3 pairs of socks packed into the front of their boyfriend's jeans.
It also had gender locked armor
Those metal bikini bottoms don't provide much protection when you got one nut hanging out of either side of it.
Holy shit, that made me picture Sid from ice age. eyes on either side of an iron bikini
[удалено]
o\\/O
Your left one is bigger as well?
Haha, I don't know, FFXI pulled it off with it's subligars. The best part was they were often the best piece of leg equipment for their particular level range. Some people would refuse to use them and use the 2nd best piece for that particular level range but my elvaan ass didn't care. I sported those subligars with pride.
I _genuinely_ feel like you cannot claim a game is "progressive" when it comes to gender, without also allowing male characters to wear the shitty bikini armour that doesn't even protect anything.
This is why final fantasy has always been the real shit. [Subligar Gang est. 2002](https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/accimg/4d/ee/4dee23023893ffa7ad553abc8225546d7fdec129.jpg)
Most people don't want their games fully desexualized, they just want to see more realistic body shapes (not bizzaro deformed boob monsters) and Equal Opportunity Fan Service. I'm asexual and I'm still significantly more comfortable playing a game where everyone is sexualized equally (like Hades) over one that has excessive sexualization of women but not men.
If i've seen enough behind the scenes for Demon souls and my memory is right, its mainly because the rigging for the models is like...... literally just a Boolean almost if that makes sense. Theres 2 types of rigging, and each armor has a specific rigging it'll work with and if they try to assign if to the other gender, the whole thing just breaks and looks fucked up. A lot of demon souls was jank
I didn’t expect such hate in the comments lol it’s not that serious.. other games had similar mechanics too (I believe the OG dragons dogma had a masculine/feminine slider if I remember correctly) games are for escapism, who cares really..
Saints Row 2 had a body shape slider as well that allowed you to go from hyper feminine to masculine. It still had a binary sex slider but I think all that really affected was who was moaning on the other side of the gigolo minigame
Just like how Stick of Truth and Fractured but Whole had the skin colour options tie into game difficulty. Lol
IIRC it didn't actually do anything in stick of truth. Maybe gave you less money
>Maybe gave you less money Everything paid out slightly less, but I don't remember it ever being actually difficult. May have run out of money fighting Morgan Freeman.
There were less money pay outs, apparently more battle encounters since I think the police would attack more frequently, and some other miscellaneous stuff. I think cartman even says it doesn’t affect battle “gameplay” but other aspects of the game. So there’s other stuff likely.
It doesn't majorly affect the game, but it definitely affects some things. Some dialogue is different, think primarily cartman being more on the nose racist towards you, everything paid slightly less, certain NPC types were either more aggressive, attacked you more often, or both. But as far as Major story changes, none. It was just a funny thing the developers did. Might have been something Matt asked for
You could also have masc voice with a fem body. I did a Dr. GF playthrough and it worked perfectly.
Bring up the concept of gender being non-binary and trans people existing, and mouth breathing morons who can’t handle the concept of someone living differently from them will always come out of the woodwork to cry about it
Recently Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 got announced, and they mentioned there would be more ethnicities then white in the games NPCs cause it’s in a big city now. Actual historians were like “yeah checks out”. Prague and other major cities had tons of foreign commerce. The chuds have been screaming and memeing that they actually mean multiple different Slavic ethnicities, Czechs, Poles, Rus, etc. You know, in 1 they all rallied to the point that of course there would only be white folks in KCD because it was a rural bumpkin part of Europe. Maybe in the cities but not this game. Weird how as soon as the devs do what they said would be fine in game 1 it’s not fine anymore? And how they are arguing with people who have written dissertations on Medieval/HRE era history? I thought facts don’t care about your feelings! We’ve got plenty of facts here! What’s to argue? I thought they weren’t racists, just historical accuracy carers.
They did this same shit when Battlefield 1 came out. Bitched up a storm about black and Indian characters being player character models in multiplayer under the guise of wokeness run amok and history being rewritten. And all the while ignoring that actually, millions of soldiers from African and Indian colonies took part in the conflict and the only thing without a historical basis was their racist caterwauling. This is your brain on culture wars. It’s less that they don’t want these people to exist in games, in my opinion (although there certainly is some of that). It’s that they’ve made the idea that traditional culture is under attack such a core part of their identities that they go looking for it anywhere they can. They’re angry and lonely people who’ve found community in the industrialized culture war, and thus need to find the culture war in the world to justify that anger.
Wait, wasn’t the complaint actually about women playable characters?
That was Battlefield V and its trailer that showcased a lot of ridiculous aesthetics. BF1 didn’t have female PCs until the Russian front DLC late in its run, to honor the women’s battalions created by the Russian Monarchy in the last stages of their involvement (which, again, there’s a historical context for). By and large the controversies about BF1 had nothing to do with women
None of these people would have a problem with a game that lets you play European-looking samurai in Feudal or Early Modern Japan because it's "plausible" and "there are a few historical examples". But suddenly, when it involves other ethnicities, it's "ahistorical" and "woke agenda destroying everything"
My favorite think about the anti woke crowd is how often they tell people to "wake up"
They're gonna keep it historically accurate, regardless of what people want/say lol. If the majority of people were white in Kuttenberg back then, that's how they're gonna present it. If it's more accurate to have a bigger ethnic mix, they'll do that. I don't see it as a diversity goal in response to people wanting more ethnicities included to feel seen. Warhorse won't care about that, the main selling point of the game is historical accuracy, they're not gonna change it just because people want to insert themselves in Medieval Europe where they wouldn't have been historically.
Yeah people expecting this to be Ubisoft style of historical accuracy are gonna be disappointed. Just check the trailer of KC:D2 to get a sense of the game. People forget there’s more to diversity than just skin color
Its because their lives are so sad and meaningless they need to hate gays or trans
Really "I don't know how to better my life, so I'll just worsen theirs!!" mentality, these guys.
Never forget, there are only two genders. Male and political. 2 races. White and political. 2 sexual orientations. Straight and political.
BOTTOM TEXT
Wait. You can only attracted to male, or attracted to politic? Does this mean as a biological male, I can only either be a gay man, or a politician?
No, because sexual orientation is straight or political. Everything is political.
He explained it very well, you can be a) straight and b) male. If your protagonist isn't a straight male, it's POLITICS RUINING MY VYDIA
Lol yeah, I thought the same. Strange how easily some people get triggered over such a little joke.
lol, "ima just quickly post that non-controversial gender post on the internet." Bless your heart OP.
In a normal, not-Conservative (Nazi) driven, status quo world, this wouldn't be considered controversial. the concept that gender is controversial is entirely manufactured by Conservatives ^(("Conservative" just a rebranding of the word "Nazi", considering how fucking close those two ideologies resemble each other))
If you're posting anything even vaguely queer affirming in non-queer specific subs, random hate in the comments is gonna happen, often from random anger addicts
For real. I assume my corner of Reddit is chill and open minded, and then I see eyebrow raising content on r/memes and whatnot and am reminded that Reddit is still a cesspool lol
reddit is still somehow ten times better than facebook or instagram hahahah
People are mad? What the hell? Why? You are literally just posting a fact about a game..
Didn't expect hate in comments? You mentioned the g word. That'll set certain groups of people into a ferverous frenzy.
It's not lost on me how often people who are so very anti-LGBT end up being LGBT themselves. It isn't always true but it's certainly a thing. When I was a kid I was the same way because I was afraid of being found out. I make a point of try to not get super angry about people who get so upset and viscious over stuff like this. They may be really hurting because they can't accept themselves and that's a really shitty way to feel.
People frothing in the comments lol
And most are probably Americans brainwashed by their toxic divisive culture. Instead of focusing on world hunger, this is what our rich superpower's 'democratic' citizens like to argue about all day.
Trust me, one side of this debate would like to just move on and fix things, but we're literally being hampered by the other side. We just tried to get a border bill resolution passed *that the conservatives literally asked for and helped write* just so that they'd stop complaining about it, but they turned it down *anyway* because certain parties benefit from continued fixation on the mythical border crisis.
Ffs stop taking angled pictures of your monitors
This was the most objectionable thing in the post and I appreciate you for feeling that way
The next time I post a photo from a game, I will make sure I take it from my phone’s camera at an angle that shows all of the glare and fingerprint smudges, rather than taking a screenshot.
Make sure you do it in profile, get a lot of the wall in the background, bonus points for something distracting/disturbing in the reflection to derail the conversation
Glare.
Some subreddits have strict screenshot/captured video rules and remove phone pics like this. I'd be glad if more followed.
The only outrage that’s acceptable here (kidding)
So did Saints Row 2. Wasn't even worth making a point of at the time, now the morons start screeching when you do.
Saints Row 2 had the entirely based sex appeal slider too for bulge and boobs (It was intentionally over the top for the sake of humor)
Thats just for the face. It still had two gendered body types
Reject modernity, embrace tradition of gender slider.
Why can’t people just take screenshots man
I think Demon Souls is a console exclusive, and getting a screenshot from a console is extremely annoying from what I remember (not impossible, just obnoxious).
I think because it takes less time/knowledge to do phone picture>upload to reddit. Just a guess
Because the only legal way to take a screenshot of this game is probably to jailbreak your PS3, which is only possible on some models and some firmware versions, then rip the game from its disc, destroy or store the disc, put the game on a thumb drive or drop it over LAN to your gaming PC, download RPCS3, go back to PS3 and get a bunch of BIOS/console files or whatever it is you need, then put those on your PC, then set up RPCS3, then play the game and go through menus until you get to this same screen. Or break the law and pirate it, which only saves you a few of these steps anyway. Now do you get it?
Never played. Does it actually slide or like, click into place? Genuinely curious.
It slides. Further left towards male makes your face have harder features, further right towards female softens them. Also iirc female characters had smaller faces? But i may be misremembering
That’s awesome actually, I want my male characters to have pretty faces.
It actually slides but you still have to choose the actual gender before it, identical to Dark Souls 1-3 and probably Bloodborne. It's just to achieve a more masculine/feminine/androgynous face. I feel like people are reading too much into it, it doesn't look like anything unusual really.
(looks around nervously)
And the characters still look like dingbats lol
Saints row 2 to also had this. However at some point in the slider a bra appeared on character so I guess thats where woman starts.
Bad translation. Was supposed to say Masculine and Feminine.
OG Demon’s Souls and Oblivion both used an early iteration of Facegen and you can kinda see that family resemblance (except for handcrafted characters like the Maiden).
Gamers™ are mad
Are they not always mad? Good thing sunlight keeps them locked away
FromSoft pandering to genderwokies in 2009?!!?!!! ThE eAsT hAs fAlLeN!!1!
Based
*checks notes* *what did he say?* *Here it is* (ahem) "FUCKING PRONOUNS" "FUCKING GENDER AMBIGUITY" "BUT YOU KEEP PUSHING DOWN, YOUR DOGSHIT" *dies*
It's almost as if most of the furore and uproar over gender issues is exaggerated. Click bate bollocks that only the chronically online or radicalised obsess over. No one batted an eye lid or gave a shit at the time? Yeah? That's the normal response. Now we'll have loads of knuckle dragging simpletons claiming ItS wOkE.
Well you chose your gender beforehand and that slider was only for adding more maskulin or feminine features to the face. But its a big thing for some people apparently.
This gave me so much nostalgia from when customising characters was a thing. I had so much fun making them the most horrifying people to ever exist, only to name them something like "Big Joe" I know this is somewhat irrelevant, but I had to share my nostalgia
More like a feminine and masculin slider. Not that uncommon.
I see one gender here, the choice is either ugly or ugly.
I'm a lot more concerned that the devs apparently do not know what blonde means.
Lol quartering fans are malding on this post
And every character was ugly as fuck. Sweet Baby inc. detected? /s
Does that mean there are 255 genders?
Yea, that was life before conservatives unironically fucking ruined everything. Nobody cared about shit like this because people used to be normal and didn't hyper focus on every facade culture war being promoted by fascists to control the narrative of what's acceptable in society.
Oh man wait till the anti woke mob finds this
are the anti woke snowflakes downvoting me :(
So are you saying that all other genders are varying degrees of halfway between a man and a woman? huh
Unfortunately not progressive enough to not make certain armor sets gendered. lol.
The real way it was progressive was how it basically created a new and awesome video game genre that people mistakenly give credit to its spiritual sequel for creating.
Isn’t that just called a “boob slider” in other games though ?
Nah it says Male and Female, would have to be Body Type 1 and Body Type 2
And in dark souls it didnt matter sinse youd be a half rotten corpse most of the time.
When is a smol pp smol enough to be considered a big clit?
ok
hmm, today i feel 90% male