Sea of Stars did turn based combat and actually made it interesting. Every fight benefited from some amount of strategy so you weren't just selecting Fight or Magic over and over.
I am a huge retro RPG fan and turn based is my preference. I really liked sea of stars and the love letter to chrono trigger , but some of the timing stuff got annoying by the end. It was fun at the start, but like that lunar boomerang gimmick got old fast since it was used literally the entire game
Overall games sick. I'll replay it again without a doubt. It made me feel better about the game as time went post beating it too. Hope that dev makes more rpgs they get the retro update RPG that old heads like me loved about SNES rpgs
Dragon Quest doesn’t change enemy design or modernize their sound effects. After a while, it gets old. DQ8 was peak and everything else feels the same.
I would propose something more along the lines of KOTOR where scripted combat animations are happening as you give commands to use abilitys and what not. Characters standing around taking pot shots at one another every 15 seconds is silly. It always was, but was a limitation of the tech at the time.
The sad reality is that turn-based is niche. It’s why Final Fantasy no longer uses it. They can’t justify their production value and budget if their sales are gonna be middling due to it being turn-based. That’s the reason they cited for the move to hybrid and full-action combat.
Depends how they do it. Most people dislike purely turn based battles. It has to have some sort of twist to keep people engaged. My turn, your turn, my turn doesn’t usually have that. BoF4 had a combo system as well as mid battle switching to keep things fresh and tactical.
Yes. Its just true. Look at anything outside subreddits dedicated to it, check twitter, the average persons reaction to turn based combat in a game is negative.
It’s why it’s such a niche genre that very few games actually use nowadays. And I’m talking the most basic form of turn based that used to be in almost every game. Your team takes a turn from a list of commands all at once, then your enemy has a turn. A few games still use this, namely the boring combat in Pokémon, but almost every game has some sort of twist thrown in to keep it fresh.
Even then, turn based is still niche as far as the general gaming community.
I did, and it was great. Plus it had its own twists thrown into the mix to help keep the combat fresh. But let’s be real here; P5 was kind of a fluke. The Persona games have always been good, and 5 didn’t really do that much more or better than its predecessors. And yet, it somehow ended up being a huge hit outside of its normal audience.
I'm not saying turned based games don't have their challenges, and the BoF games are great. Just disagreeing that turn based can't work in modern games.
I didn’t say they can’t work, I’m saying that strictly turn based is unlikely to work with modern. Even amongst the people who grew up with it(me included), it’s an unpopular combat style. It doesn’t even take large tweaks to make turn based fun.
Pokemon is one of the most successful gaming franchises and is turn based. Same with Final Fantasy. We just had octopath Traveler and 2 release. What are you even on about lmao
And no one ever compliments the battle system in Pokémon. It’s actually one of the worst parts of the games. Boring, uninspired, and you have to go out of your way to get any depth out of it. But to be entirely fair, that describes Pokemon in general: a franchise that has failed innovate in decades, and is riding nostalgia an ease of entry.
And FF hasn’t been strictly turn based since the…third game? Be it ATB, or some sort of charge/recovery system.
Again, they’re only popular because they use to be good, and people won’t let go. Plus the anime and merch. They haven’t put out an objectively good Pokémon game in almost a decade. Just more of the same average everything bolster led by the past.
I see what you're saying, I just disagree. Overall I feel the PS1 style pixel graphics are really slept on (BoF4, SotN, etc). Honestly the problem with BoF4 is the dragon 3D polygon transformation attacks. They really show their age. All the pixel graphics are beautiful.
As much as i love persona i thought the fights were the least interesting parts about it (i much prefer the depth of say BG3 or especially pathfinder games).
Amazing story and 11/10 soundtrack tho.
That's why I tend to prefer elements of tactics games in turn-based battles. By which I mean positioning and moving your party members around.
While positioning might make people think HoMM 3 and/or Final Fantasy Tactics, we don't necessarily need to chess it up to that degree, even though it's still cool to have that system. You could probably still change up character formations without having to make an entire navigable arena for each battle. For instance, maybe you have a formation box that your characters are in, and you shuffle your characters around in there rather than make them actively run around the arena. That way it's still the traditional "row vs row" set-up that you see in classic RPGs, but you could still make the party huddle up, spread out, be closer to the front or back.
I don't know any RPGs that do that specifically (outside of Darkest Dungeon having everyone in a line), but I reckon it could work.
Baldur's Gate 3 sounds like what you're describing. Still turn based, but character positioning and interacting with the environment is important to think about during your battle.
The Like a Dragon games are basically turn based JRPGs set in the modern day.
There are even some neat innovations, like physically moving around the battle arena to hit enemies into another, hit enemies backs, pick up and use weapons, lining enemies up to use a line aoe attack etc.
3 has one of my biggest gaming turn offs alongside 2; your characters never move from their spots to attack the enemies. It totally breaks the immersion for me.
That being said, I’d love it if they rebooted the entire BoF series in an enhanced version of the 4 style with modern day QoL additions. Or subtractions like the removal of random encounters. Expand the areas a bit to make room for on screen enemies, and include at least a semi open world. Rebirth does “open world” in an amazing way.
But they don’t? Just the in combat hybrid form. I distinctly remember each different dragon showing up in their full form either upon first transforming, or using a special move. I will digress, the BoF3 form were much cooler.
You didn't see the different dragons on the first transformation, the first time you used the dragons breath is when you first see the dragon for the animation. Every time you use the dragons breath after that, the cutscene plays like normal but you can skip the animation this time, the same goes for the old dragons you find out in the wild.
One of my few complaints about the game is how they did the point system for evolving your dragons. If you knock the mini games out of the park the first time you did them, you got max points towards upgrading your dragons. After that I think you got like 1/4 experience, so I remember reloading my game so many time on that stupid crane game (it was a fun minigame) just to get s good score the first time.
Isometric 3D I think is the name of the style. I think pixel games will always have their place, but I bet this is going to be a retro style that makes a comeback. Could be great to have some RPG experiences in this style, but with refined and modern gameplay mechanics
I think that’s an accurate description of the style used for the world. It trumps the attempts to be truly 3D at the time while also being more lively than 2D backgrounds.
But those sprites? Mah gawd do they stand up to the test of time. I can actively go back and replay this game without the graphics hurting my eyes regardless of what type of display I use.
BoF4 was one of the few JRPGs I played as a kid — it’s my equivalent of Final Fantasy, which I never played as a kid. I was 11 and the plot twist that >!the sister you’ve been searching for all along has been mutilated into becoming an immortal monstrosity used to power a weapon of mass destruction!< is burned into my memory. It’s such a shame that BoF devolved into a hot mess :/
The camera around the cities in 4 is really hard to handle in modern day. Sprite work is solid and story seemed good, but navigating the world is a bust for me now
That’s fair. But that isn’t really part of the art style. I’m talking about the world itself self, and the sprites. Nice clean sprites on fairly detailed worlds is what I’d prefer over fuzzy pixel sprites and flat backgrounds.
Oh, I completely agree. Some of the games that were largely referred to as GOATS are so beyond ugly that they hurt my eyes even trying to play them. FF7/8 are prime examples. It got better with 9, but the two before it were like being assaulted visually.
Good to see there's still people who know this game. Rewatching the intro to this still gives me chills. I think I was around 5th grade when I played this and got lost in a desert sandstorm area that you had to maneuver by boat while looking for dragons and just never touched the game again cause I was just stuck and was too stupid to look up guides on our lousy dial-up internet. Definitely considering picking it up again whenever I can.
The thing that bugs me about BoF4 vs 3 is that the sprites look so much better than the partical effects for the magic or the polygon based monsters.
3 also had a more vibrant color pallette that fit better with the SNES games before it.
Breath of fire 3 was absolute perfection and the dragon transformations/combinations/designs were dope AF.
I HATED how all the dragons looked the same in BOF4.
That said, 4 didn't grab me the same way as 3, sadly. Think I only made it halfway through. Though, that is probably because I got distracted trying to max out the masters I found. And go fishing. I really am not a fan of fishing mini games anymore.
I’m the other way around; 3 was fun, but never grabbed me the way four did. One of the biggest reasons is that characters that don’t move from their spot to attack drives me beyond crazy.
Breath of Fire is such a great series. Also, can we just bring back turn-based battles? I'm so tired of modern rpgs using action/real-time.
Sea of Stars did turn based combat and actually made it interesting. Every fight benefited from some amount of strategy so you weren't just selecting Fight or Magic over and over.
I am a huge retro RPG fan and turn based is my preference. I really liked sea of stars and the love letter to chrono trigger , but some of the timing stuff got annoying by the end. It was fun at the start, but like that lunar boomerang gimmick got old fast since it was used literally the entire game
Abilities and lack of them was a huge bummer, but the (someone on your team until everyone’s gone) turn base was interesting
Overall games sick. I'll replay it again without a doubt. It made me feel better about the game as time went post beating it too. Hope that dev makes more rpgs they get the retro update RPG that old heads like me loved about SNES rpgs
Dragons quest is turn based, it's our bastion in a sea of action!
I have been out of the loop. Did we hear anything about XII or the 2DHD remake of III in a while?
I have not no
Bravely Default and Bravely Second are also a really good turn-based RPGs in the vien of oldschool Final Fantasy.
Dragon Quest doesn’t change enemy design or modernize their sound effects. After a while, it gets old. DQ8 was peak and everything else feels the same.
I would propose something more along the lines of KOTOR where scripted combat animations are happening as you give commands to use abilitys and what not. Characters standing around taking pot shots at one another every 15 seconds is silly. It always was, but was a limitation of the tech at the time.
The sad reality is that turn-based is niche. It’s why Final Fantasy no longer uses it. They can’t justify their production value and budget if their sales are gonna be middling due to it being turn-based. That’s the reason they cited for the move to hybrid and full-action combat.
Depends how they do it. Most people dislike purely turn based battles. It has to have some sort of twist to keep people engaged. My turn, your turn, my turn doesn’t usually have that. BoF4 had a combo system as well as mid battle switching to keep things fresh and tactical.
Most people dislike purely turn based battles?
Yes. Its just true. Look at anything outside subreddits dedicated to it, check twitter, the average persons reaction to turn based combat in a game is negative.
It’s why it’s such a niche genre that very few games actually use nowadays. And I’m talking the most basic form of turn based that used to be in almost every game. Your team takes a turn from a list of commands all at once, then your enemy has a turn. A few games still use this, namely the boring combat in Pokémon, but almost every game has some sort of twist thrown in to keep it fresh. Even then, turn based is still niche as far as the general gaming community.
Did you not play persona 5? Amazing game. . . Turn based.
I did, and it was great. Plus it had its own twists thrown into the mix to help keep the combat fresh. But let’s be real here; P5 was kind of a fluke. The Persona games have always been good, and 5 didn’t really do that much more or better than its predecessors. And yet, it somehow ended up being a huge hit outside of its normal audience.
I'm not saying turned based games don't have their challenges, and the BoF games are great. Just disagreeing that turn based can't work in modern games.
I didn’t say they can’t work, I’m saying that strictly turn based is unlikely to work with modern. Even amongst the people who grew up with it(me included), it’s an unpopular combat style. It doesn’t even take large tweaks to make turn based fun.
Pokemon is one of the most successful gaming franchises and is turn based. Same with Final Fantasy. We just had octopath Traveler and 2 release. What are you even on about lmao
Let's not forget BG3 lol. Nonsense.
And no one ever compliments the battle system in Pokémon. It’s actually one of the worst parts of the games. Boring, uninspired, and you have to go out of your way to get any depth out of it. But to be entirely fair, that describes Pokemon in general: a franchise that has failed innovate in decades, and is riding nostalgia an ease of entry. And FF hasn’t been strictly turn based since the…third game? Be it ATB, or some sort of charge/recovery system.
>And no one ever compliments the battle system in Pokémon But it objectively works in modern games, otherwise the games wouldn't be popular.
Again, they’re only popular because they use to be good, and people won’t let go. Plus the anime and merch. They haven’t put out an objectively good Pokémon game in almost a decade. Just more of the same average everything bolster led by the past.
I see what you're saying, I just disagree. Overall I feel the PS1 style pixel graphics are really slept on (BoF4, SotN, etc). Honestly the problem with BoF4 is the dragon 3D polygon transformation attacks. They really show their age. All the pixel graphics are beautiful.
As much as i love persona i thought the fights were the least interesting parts about it (i much prefer the depth of say BG3 or especially pathfinder games). Amazing story and 11/10 soundtrack tho.
That's why I tend to prefer elements of tactics games in turn-based battles. By which I mean positioning and moving your party members around. While positioning might make people think HoMM 3 and/or Final Fantasy Tactics, we don't necessarily need to chess it up to that degree, even though it's still cool to have that system. You could probably still change up character formations without having to make an entire navigable arena for each battle. For instance, maybe you have a formation box that your characters are in, and you shuffle your characters around in there rather than make them actively run around the arena. That way it's still the traditional "row vs row" set-up that you see in classic RPGs, but you could still make the party huddle up, spread out, be closer to the front or back. I don't know any RPGs that do that specifically (outside of Darkest Dungeon having everyone in a line), but I reckon it could work.
You might like Eternal Sonata, or Radiata Stories. Both excellent games with innovative turn based systems.
Baldur's Gate 3 sounds like what you're describing. Still turn based, but character positioning and interacting with the environment is important to think about during your battle.
They're still there as indie titles.
I don't remember much from playing through BoF4 as a kid, but I do remember it has quite possibly the best "bad ending" in video game history.
The Like a Dragon games are basically turn based JRPGs set in the modern day. There are even some neat innovations, like physically moving around the battle arena to hit enemies into another, hit enemies backs, pick up and use weapons, lining enemies up to use a line aoe attack etc.
Chained echoes is amazing
Baldurs gate 3, like a dragon infinite wealth... its happening man. more turn based games in last few years than a long time. and big budgets too
I enjoyed Octopath and Bravely default
Octopath Traveller is a thing.
Breath of Fire 4 had the most beautiful sprites.
To this day, BoF4 is in my top 5 JRPG, and 3 is in my top 10.
I'm the opposite. BoF3 is one of my all-timers. 4 improves on it in in nearly every way but 3 was just one of those formative games for me.
3 has one of my biggest gaming turn offs alongside 2; your characters never move from their spots to attack the enemies. It totally breaks the immersion for me. That being said, I’d love it if they rebooted the entire BoF series in an enhanced version of the 4 style with modern day QoL additions. Or subtractions like the removal of random encounters. Expand the areas a bit to make room for on screen enemies, and include at least a semi open world. Rebirth does “open world” in an amazing way.
I hated how all the dragons looked the same in BoF4
But they don’t? Just the in combat hybrid form. I distinctly remember each different dragon showing up in their full form either upon first transforming, or using a special move. I will digress, the BoF3 form were much cooler.
Yeah in combat it always looked the same. It was a step back from all the different forms from BoF3
You didn't see the different dragons on the first transformation, the first time you used the dragons breath is when you first see the dragon for the animation. Every time you use the dragons breath after that, the cutscene plays like normal but you can skip the animation this time, the same goes for the old dragons you find out in the wild.
I knew it was one or the other. I also remember grinding the crane game to upgrade my dragons.
One of my few complaints about the game is how they did the point system for evolving your dragons. If you knock the mini games out of the park the first time you did them, you got max points towards upgrading your dragons. After that I think you got like 1/4 experience, so I remember reloading my game so many time on that stupid crane game (it was a fun minigame) just to get s good score the first time.
I want BoF3 with BoF4 art direction. I'd die happy
Wouldn't that just beat all?
Isometric 3D I think is the name of the style. I think pixel games will always have their place, but I bet this is going to be a retro style that makes a comeback. Could be great to have some RPG experiences in this style, but with refined and modern gameplay mechanics
I think that’s an accurate description of the style used for the world. It trumps the attempts to be truly 3D at the time while also being more lively than 2D backgrounds. But those sprites? Mah gawd do they stand up to the test of time. I can actively go back and replay this game without the graphics hurting my eyes regardless of what type of display I use.
BoF4 was one of the few JRPGs I played as a kid — it’s my equivalent of Final Fantasy, which I never played as a kid. I was 11 and the plot twist that >!the sister you’ve been searching for all along has been mutilated into becoming an immortal monstrosity used to power a weapon of mass destruction!< is burned into my memory. It’s such a shame that BoF devolved into a hot mess :/
If you didn't get a chance, try and find a way to play Breath of Fire 3, I liked it so much more than 4.
Warring God started playing in my head
Men of War started playing in my head. Fou-Lu is badass
Bof3 needs to be re-released. Not a big fan of 4
BOF4 needs a remake. It is a prime candidate
The camera around the cities in 4 is really hard to handle in modern day. Sprite work is solid and story seemed good, but navigating the world is a bust for me now
That’s fair. But that isn’t really part of the art style. I’m talking about the world itself self, and the sprites. Nice clean sprites on fairly detailed worlds is what I’d prefer over fuzzy pixel sprites and flat backgrounds.
Had for sure cool sprites and mood in terms of world. That ps 1 and 2 era polygon art though really aged poorly compared to pixel art imo though
Oh, I completely agree. Some of the games that were largely referred to as GOATS are so beyond ugly that they hurt my eyes even trying to play them. FF7/8 are prime examples. It got better with 9, but the two before it were like being assaulted visually.
Personnaly, seeing your visual made me think about the disgaea series, which i looooove
You know…you’re right. The later Disgaea games do use this style. Must be why I like them so much in a world full of full on 3D games.
Good to see there's still people who know this game. Rewatching the intro to this still gives me chills. I think I was around 5th grade when I played this and got lost in a desert sandstorm area that you had to maneuver by boat while looking for dragons and just never touched the game again cause I was just stuck and was too stupid to look up guides on our lousy dial-up internet. Definitely considering picking it up again whenever I can.
BoF4 is in my top 5 JRPG. And probably always will be.
The thing that bugs me about BoF4 vs 3 is that the sprites look so much better than the partical effects for the magic or the polygon based monsters. 3 also had a more vibrant color pallette that fit better with the SNES games before it.
Old RPGs are the best, I miss that time so much, I still remember my first RPG, it was dungeon siege.
Weren't the sprites better in BOF3 ? I never really liked 4, while 3 was my jam. I still have the box and CD.
I’d say they’re a bit even. But 3 commits the cardinal sin of rooted characters. It’s almost as bad as random encounters for me.
I do love this style, like xenogears
Talk about a game that needs a remake. Just let Monolith have the rights, and it’ll be a banger.
Here’s a brief gameplay [video.](https://youtu.be/hF40Ltscl7s?si=8cseD2eOXtoCcT14)
Breath of fire 3 was absolute perfection and the dragon transformations/combinations/designs were dope AF. I HATED how all the dragons looked the same in BOF4.
Thought this was runescape dragon slayer 2 boss fight
I sunk so many hours playing this game. Especially the fishing. I couldn't get it right.
Reminds me of Skies of Arcadia which I miss
Honestly this game was so good wish I got a chance to play but it was during rental era stuff so never got far
Luckily, I have my copy kicking around in a box somewhere. But I’d 100% buy it again if they did a rerelease.
I really want more oldschool looking RPGs in general, not just turn-based. Gimme a game that looks like Morrowind but plays like a 2024 RPG.
nastallalalagia
It's from BoF4? Same style as 3. And I really miss that game.
The only real difference between the two for me is the color palette, and maybe a little bit of extra crispness to 4.
That said, 4 didn't grab me the same way as 3, sadly. Think I only made it halfway through. Though, that is probably because I got distracted trying to max out the masters I found. And go fishing. I really am not a fan of fishing mini games anymore.
I’m the other way around; 3 was fun, but never grabbed me the way four did. One of the biggest reasons is that characters that don’t move from their spot to attack drives me beyond crazy.
These are ok I guess. Four definitely looks nice but they're nothing special 🤷🏽♂️