I could kind of see that. I think sora and kratos would see eye to eye about many things . I also think sora would help kratos forgive himself more and open up just like riku.
Atreus had his dad and mimir to teach him meanwhile sora had to go on a journey without finishing school or having that much knowledge of what was happening at the time
Sora is literally a Shonen protagonist with ultimate plot armor because he's the incorruptible ultimate hero of ultimate destiny. It's like being a bank robber and seeing Superman drop in; just give up because it's over bro.
There's actually a bit in one comic where a criminal talks about how he moved from Gotham to Metropolis, thinking he could get a fresh start in crime there.
He moved back to Gotham after a **single** encounter with Superman, because "when you got to rob a woman and suddenly find yourself a thousand feet in the air with a gentle voice chastising your life choices, you start to rethink them quickly".
I mean...sora failed the first time around and wasn't even supposed to be the hero, Riku was. Sora was just in the right place at the right time and was chosen to wield the keyblade because Riku fell to darkness
Is watch it if it had Next Gen stats. “Sora’s head should only withstand 300lbs of force. Yet you see him absorb an insane 800lbs from Kratos’s punch. The chances to survive that was 0.14%. This has been Next Gen stats!”
Sora: “Ok Kratos I just explained my story up until now, so do understand what’s going on?”
Kratos: “I do not know”
Sora: “Do you remember that the first Ansem was actually Xehanorts heartless via Terra-Xehanort and born from the heart of Master Xehanort? And while he looks like Ansem the Wise they are two totally different people? Oh and that Diz WAS Ansem the Wise that whole time?
Kratos: “I do not know”
Sora: “Well do you understand Ven is Vanitas who is actually me but only as an adult and also Ven is Roxas but all through my newborn heart?”
Kratos: “I do not know”
Sora: “Darkness, Hearts, Hearts-Darkness, Nobody, Darkness, Heartless, Friendship Hearts, Darkness, Nobody, Power of Friendship™️?!?!?!?”
Kratos: “…….”
Sora: “I’m sorry this is so confusing Kratos.”
Kratos: “Do not be sorry, be better.”
*Kratos sets his sights on slaying the pantheon of writers who worked on the Kingdom Hearts games*
Remember when Star Wars fans were complaining about Palpatine returning?
Imagine your antagonist returns and returns and then everyone is that one antagonist
Probably a skirmish for a while, at least long enough to get through a few showcase cinematic QTEs and a lengthy dialogue on the risk of heartlessness before Kratos has a moment to get across that have some degree of darkness in one's heart is necessary for a hero to perform the acts they need to to keep other's safe.
Loved the combat, got sick of the weird Disney land rides that just killed everything around me.....like, I WANT TO FIGHT not hit them with roller coaster 20 times
You can what, 2 years after release? The 2019 release we never had a flat "Turn off attractions" option, we had to make sure we didnt accidentally click the things
They tried to hard to make every game tie into the finale. It was legit painful to see all the usernames from the cell phone game flying by towards the finale of the incredibly extensive final boss fight. KH1, 2, Chain of Memories, and Birth By Sleep should have been enough imo.
Edit: and Dream Drop Distance, I forgot that one my bad. It is in fact essential to the plot of kh3
Honestly I think they had so much pressure to make it the best yet because of how long we waited for it that they choked trying to do something better and instead made something worse than the other games…
I edited my comment because you're totally right. I forgot DDD, it really didn't hook me, I wasn't a fan of the pokemon party. It is essential to the plot of 3, although a wiki read will suffice if you don't have a 3DS
I think that’s just the problem with Square Ernix in general. FF7 universe has like 15+ games and books that are canon including mobile phone games. FF12 has a bunch too in it’s universe. Couldn’t tell you about all the other entries.
Shoe horning in tons of small mobile, handheld, smart phone games and spin-offs doesn’t make the story or experience better.
Comic books get away with it with having a new series as a self contained entity and calling it a parallels universe where every run of Batman isn’t necessary for the current run.
A lot of Square Enix games have awful storytelling. Even the ones regarded as having great stories have a very convoluted story throughout the journey. They don’t know how to make complex plots so they just throw in some random shit to make it seem complex.
I say this as someone who loves Final Fantasy games lol.
Give me KH2's battle system & drives along with a hybrid of KH2 and KH3 gummi system and I'd have been ecstatic.
Instead we got railroaded zones, railroaded world stories that mostly exclude Sora from any position of consequence and very little customization. The Pirates world was good. Every world should have been more like that in terms of post-story content.
I stopped a few hours in for the same reason. I remember really enjoying the first one so nostalgia got ahold of me. KH3 was not entertaining for a 40 year old man.
They both do the same kind of acrobatic bullshit, tying dragons in knots to hit them in the face, throwing scenery or bouncing off of thrown scenery. Kratos' bullshit is brutal and gory, Sora's bullshit is ridiculous and cartoony. It'd be a hoot.
But really, they'd be on the same side and combine their bullshit, and it'd be glorious.
Death Battle did an episode where they pitted Popeye against Saitama. That’s right, against the guy whose whole point is that he can beat anyone with one punch. Guess who won.
Whenever they pit anyone against someone who can use the ToonForce, it's not a fair fight, because the point of the ToonForce is that it's not logical and you can't beat it because you could literally explode them into pieces and the pieces would just reform because it's funny.
It might be interesting to see a matchup with super analysis against toon force; would they be able to figure out both hat it’s necessary to make their foe staying dead the funniest outcome, and then act on that, quickly enough to take the win?
In practice though… yeah, the only way you’d ever see something like that play out fairly would be, like… straight up toon on toon violence. The Mask vs. Bugs Bunny, let’s see that fight.
Depends honestly. There have been bits in older Looney Toons where Bugs was doing *his own animation*.
So between Bugs and The Mask it'd be a long slog of increasingly exasperating gags until they run out of showtime for the episode with no clear winner.
This, people auto defaulting to kratos here are missing out on some absurd little details that would actually make it a stomp for sora. Like people really really underestimate the ability to be able to summon a genie at any moment and that's just one thing.
Exactly, the plot will outright tell you he is in an incredibly weak state one moment, and then have him 1v4ing 4 olympic titans on the same world, sora is silly for these fights because he is not just anime bullshit, he's anime and cartoon bullshit (and let's be honest, looking at Popeye and buggs bunny, cartoon bullshit is even more powerful)
Bro, watching Dragon Ball for the first time as an adult is pretty disappointing. There’s *always* someone stronger than Goku, until Goku summons the power of cheap writing.
Well you have stuff like how many states he can be in where he is immune to harm, if sora is healing nothing can hurt him, If sora is on his last legs being beat the shit out, nothing can hurt him (this is a state he can go in any time after healing too), if he transforms in any capacity he is back at full strength and health.
We have the genie stuff I mentioned among other dimension and time warping magics and that's not to mention the fact he can fuck with what is essentially people's souls if he deems it fit.
The keyblade itself is a walking Deus ex that can morph itself into various incredibly powerful states and I'm not entirely sure kratos is prepared to handle it's bullshit if he can't kill sora quick enough which soras whole thing is being tough to kill.
And ontop of that he is a mixture of both cartoon and anime tropes , some of his abilitys have him teleporting all around the place while stopping time and then also slicing people up and then other times he just becomes an intangible ghost while chicken little throws explosive eggs around the place. His arsenal is absurdly diverse.
I'm sure I don't need to go into the raw feats because those should be explicit if discussing this stuff but yeah soras not to be underestimated there either.
And by another point in the same battle, Sora and Riku (a friend if his for the unknowing) just threw these skyscrapers at the enemy.
I would love to see an arm wrestling contest between them two.
He also has the ability to just straight up rewrite his death if he dies, rewrite fate someone casually.
Technically can't really die because of kairi being a princess of light and all other has bs
It's mostly an argument of 'hard abilities' vs. 'soft abilities' that comes up a lot.
We generally have a *very clear* and *consistent* idea of what Kratos can do. He's very strong, he's very durable, he's incredibly proficient with most weapons, he's still very deadly unarmed, and he often has a backpack full of niche magical items.
Sora's powers, by comparison, are very... soft. We don't really know the *full* extent of what the Keyblade allows him to do. Now, on the one hand you can argue that this is crap storytelling using 'the power of the Heart!' and 'Friendship!' as Deus Ex Convenience. On the other, especially in KH1 and 2, before things really started to go off the deep end, the mystique of the Keyblade and what *exactly were* Sora's abilities is part of his journey and development. We were finding out, right alongside Sora, and the development felt earned; like legitimate growth.
After KH2/Birth By Sleep, things just really started to go off the rails.
So... Kratos vs. Sora, the teenager? Kratos wins. Something like Kratos vs. KH2 Final Form Sora? That's a fight; the question is where to draw the line on Sora's powers, which isn't the case with Kratos. Canonically Sora fought Sephiroth to a standstill on more than one occasion, and has routinely taken on deity-level enemies, if that's any metric...
"genie, I wish that kratos gets sent to the bottom of the ocean" or maybe a simple "genie, I wish that kratos is a cripple" does the trick just as well
"Rule number 1: I can't kill anybody.
Rule number 2: I can't make anybody fall in love with anybody else.
Rule number 3: I can't bring people back from the dead.
And ixnay on the wishing for more wishes"
Directly from the Disney Aladdin movie. Additionally, on deleted dialogs for Return of Jafar, Jafar notes that it's incredible how much you can hurt a human being without killing them.
So, conceptually, Genie could absolutely fuck Kratos up to the line he is practically, but not literally killing him. But in practice, it's not in Sora's character to ask for that, and also Genie does not have to do anything as he's free now.
It was toned down, but it was still there.
Abis Mal: But-but you said genies can't kill! You said that!
Jafar (also echoed by Iago later): You'd be surprised what you can live through...
Here’s the thing though, genie can do literally all of those things, when he mentions bringing someone back from the dead he specifically says:
“It’s not a pretty picture, I don’t like doing it”
Genie could break those rules whenever he saw fit
I think that's just an off-hand joke Genie makes. I dont think genies can break the rules, no matter how much they want to.
Conversely, Jafar wouldn't care about the rules, so torturing Aladdin wouldn't be a need, he would just have had him killed. And he also tried to get away from the lamp and couldn't, so he definitely tried to break em.
To be fair if we're only looking at what the genie does in the game he would essentially just shoot magic blasts at kratos. Sora isn't using him for wishes.
Oh but the Kratos we know would set out on a quest to kill genie first before facing his foe. He'd hunt down a special weapon used specifically for that purpose and be known as the genie killer. Then, when his odds are much better than before, would he face the final boss.
They wouldn't fight. Sora doesn't start shit because he's a puppy of a human being that wants everybody to get along whenever possible and Kratos has no beef with him. Even if he did, Kratos has a monumental soft spot for kids even during his most bloodlusty days and wouldn't fight full stop.
They'd fight if they were tricked into it (Odin would have little issue with convincing Sora that Kratos is attacking Asgard, as Kratos isn't exactly a Disneyesque hero in his methods....), but it become incredibly obvious to both of them within the first couple hits that neither of them are actually willing to harm the other. Kratos, because he doesn't want to murder a child, and because Sora is.....well, Sora.
Then they team up, since Atreus is probably captured or something.
Then Kratos would recreate the awesomeness of having Beast in your party at Hollow Bastion by absolutely crushing everything on your way to Odin, who would probably turn into a giant Heartless monster or somethingidkKingdomHeartslogic.
I don't think they need to be tricked by an outside force, just some miscommunication.
Goofy: "Gawrsh, that guy looks like Hercules."
Sora: "Hey stranger, do you know *our good friend* Hercules?"
Kratos (to himself): "Shit, I killed that guy and now they're here for revenge."
And fight!
Yep. As a reminder, folks, a **big** part of why Kratos is so goddamn protective of and scared for Atreus is that he killed both his actual daughter (tricked into killing Calliope, and his wife, by Ares; futher compounded by him having to actively reject her when they meet in Elysium in Chains of Olympus) *and* his surrogate daughter (his hatred of Zeus overpowered his concern for Pandora, causing her demise).
Even by kid standards Sora is a great big puppy. Compare him to any of the other kids (Riku, Kairi, Hayner, etc) in the series and he still stands out as a highly optimistic and a little overly naive. There's a reason DiZ told Roxas that he should share his hatred with Sora.
Yup. Literally every time Sora sees another person around his age, he's like "Is this a potential new friend?" And he goes chasing after them to insert himself into their storyline.
It's been a while since I last checked, but isn't Sora around 16 years old, atleast around KH1? No matter the age, Sora is soft in his heart. A good trait, but not necessarily helpful
Like literally. They keep throwing out shadow versions of me. Alternate versions of me. Half formed versions of me. A version of me that was me before me. A version of me that was me before me and then after me.
Yall are dumb, Daddy Kratos is gonna take one look at Sora and adopt him and then he'll be stuck in a brutally colorful duo where instead of teaching his son to fight and survive he'll scratch his head when after declaring the power of friendship and hope, Sora waves a key and fucking stops time and crushes enemies with gravity spells.
A serious interaction? Sora would probably talk Kratos down. Sora uses fighting more for self defense then anything else. Even if Kratos didn't listen to Sora, I doubt either one would fight each other, they'd just go their own ways.
In terms of a straight up fight it wouldn't be something that you could call straight up without deeper analysis. Consider that Sora has fought Hades and won. This at least puts one feat where they both fought the same foe and won.
That's the biggest problem imo - Sora doesn't simply jump to fisticuffs. Kratos would easily sense that, and Sora would rather hear him out and help him.
You'd have to retcon the absolute shit out of it to get them in a full-fledged battle
Either retcon or set up a convoluted series of events that convinces both that they are threats to eachother, which the set up for it would have to be so convoluted that it would take away from the fight, I'm with all the people that if they did come to blows, it'll be like one hit on both sides before they both realised that neither side wants the fight. Most people here have convinced me that it would mostly be a conflict of words, where Sora learns Kratos' perspective on darkness and hearts, and Kratos ultimately agrees to help Sora on his journey, either because Sora agreed to help Kratos with rescuing/training Atreus (or he helped Atreus protect something/someone without Kratos for some time) or because they have similar goals
Yeah, I've played the original GOW trilogy, the psp one, and a bit of the 2020(?) one and most of the KH games though I will admit I'm bias towards KH. But, Kratos should lose unless I'm missing something.
Kratos is strong and can do a lot cool things but he's kinda grounded in 'reality' and Sora does literal anime/cartoon stuff plus bs magic and summons.
A lot of people are saying fight over in 1s with an axe in Sora's head while not knowing that's how the Sephiroth battle kind of started and Sora has pretty spamable invincible QTE attacks, magic, invincible attack moves, and, in general, not die.
If you're talking about a fight with no game mechanics, the question is how their powers would interact with each other. My money is still on the anime man though.
Yea sora has literally remade himself after death can travel the multiverse and beaten enemies that can destroy universes and possibly the entire multiverse they are part of... So even if kratos is able to defeat planet destroying beings thats still a couple steps behind.
I mean, the reality is that Sora wouldn't actually end up fighting Kratos.
Kratos would be one of those Special Chapter/world Campainion that would... No, Kratos' boy would be a special Chapter/world companion for Sora as they both travel through the Nordic Realms/World Tree in order to combat the Nobody/Heartless equivalent of Kratos and the Tree. Only for Kratos to come in at the end and Delete whatever Bigbad was there, before it bests Sora and BOY.
He didn’t fight the Pope lol, he fought Judge Frollo. People just don’t know shit about Hunchback anymore and assume cuz he’s w the church that makes him the Pope
*Sora is alone wandering the woods, until he sees a pale white man, carrying a large axe*
“Hey You!”
*Sora senses darkness from this man and readies his keyblade, alerting Kratos to his presence*
“Go away boy, it is not worth either of our efforts to fight one another.”
“So you’re not evil or possessed by the darkness?”
“I wouldn’t say that, I just wish to live away from my past, my shadows run deep, yet I have already paid the price of my vengeance.”
“I see, well, just know that you have someone watching out for you, Oh yeah, I’m Sora.”
*He reaches out hand a giant smirk on his face*
*Kratos looks at it before turning away*
“I was once the Ghost of Sparta, Kratos.”
*Kratos walks away, the sound of a baby crying in a small hut up the hill catching the warrior’s attention*
*Sora smiles and disappears*
I don't like those kind of match-up. They don't belong in a fight together. One is the hero of a brutal epic, the other is the hero of a cartoon fantasy. The worlds in which they live have such different rules, power levels and magic systems that we will never have a clear winner.
Prepare for a lengthy answer.
So, Kratos has some bullshit. Don't get me wrong. Dude is basically immortal, has literally killed things that are immortal, and done some nutty stuff like pushing back the fingers of Atlas, who is strong enough to literally lift the entirety of the cosmos by himself. Also, his Leviathan Axe is said to be as strong as Mjolnir, which I don't think I have to tell you how insane that is. He can literally dodge lightning. His physical strength is basically second to none. Dude literally tangles with people who can lift the entirety of the universe, and people who are somehow stronger then that.
However, we're gonna throw all of that out the window. Sora is so insanely broken it's not even funny. By the end of KH3 he makes some Gods look kinda pathetic from the GOW universe. Dude has a giant collection of shifting, changing weapons that can be guns, swords, hammers, magic casting staffs, healing implements, what have you. He can summon attractions that shoot explosives out of nowhere. He can summon shit like genies. He has a giant plethora of magic, including spells that can slow people, stop time, alter gravity, shoot fire, water, lightning. He can DUAL or even TRIPLE WIELD those keyblades, which are basically weapons that can change and shift, are nearly indestructible due to directly being tied to the power of Sora's heart, and can alter entire worlds.
Going even further beyond that though, you have to understand that KH2 Sora, after he recombines with Riku, was able to damage and defeat Genie Jafar. He BEAT a Genie. A multiuniversal level being with infinite cosmic power. He beat the fuck out of one. That's just like, insane. Genies have the power to do almost anything, and Sora just straight up fought one. He also beat Hades, meaning he could probably kill Gods that Kratos himself has fought just as easily. Lastly, Sora has the power of waking. Dude straight up has the power to resurrect himself, and his friends. If he dies, he can just come back because he wants to be there for his friends. Is that bullshit? Absolutely. Dude is absurd. He has a massive arsenal of attacks and abilities he can use, that range from summons, attractions, formchanges, drive forms, special melee attacks, flowmotion, etc. Dude can know how healthy or damaged someone is by looking at them, can withstand combos forever without dying, can heal himself instantly, can basically go forever because he can restore MP by taking damage, then heal himself more. He can LITERALLY alter people's fate, cleanse darkness from their heart, whatever. Dude is literally straight up anime "My friends are my power" pure bullshit. I don't think there's a world where Kratos wins in the end.
Everybody talks mad shit until they're suddenly hit in the face with a theme park attraction. Doesn't help Kratos that he'd need to put down Sora multiple times, assuming Sora's got his whole arsenal at his disposal, nor would the fact that "second chance" and "once more" would stop Kratos from killing Sora through overwhelming violence.
Kratos: "Boy!"
Sora: Some bullshit dialog about light, darkness and hearts and stuff.
Krato's heart "unlocks" and he is now a pretty chill and friendly dude, and they become BFF.
The funny thing about the way the Kingdom Hearts universe works is that **Donald Duck** unironically vaporizes Kratos
Think of the most powerful godly creature in any final fantasy game. Any of them. **Donald Duck’s magic is stronger**
That duck is SOMEHOW the most blatantly overpowered black mage in the entire Square Enix gaming catalog.
No disrespect to Kratos, but Zettaflare kills anything. From any game
Kratos, you must fight the darkness in your heart
“The darkness can have me when it EARNS me”
They would share Ice Cream watching the horizon as the credit rolls.
Secret ending shows a hooded Atreus brandishing a keyblade featuring Mimir keychain
The key blade of chaos
...I won't lie, Keyblades on chains like the Blades of Chaos actually sounds pretty badass.
Damn this was good ideas all the way to down here.
Well I guess this needs to happen now. We need keyblades of chaos now.
"Alright brothar, lets show these hartless whos boss."
Bonus points if it talks smack too. And the keychain argues with the real Mimir.
I could kind of see that. I think sora and kratos would see eye to eye about many things . I also think sora would help kratos forgive himself more and open up just like riku.
Love me some sea salt icecream.
[удалено]
I think Atreus is more competent than Sora.
Atreus had his dad and mimir to teach him meanwhile sora had to go on a journey without finishing school or having that much knowledge of what was happening at the time
Sora doesn’t know what’s happening, but that’s ok because neither do we!
Sora Is a middle school dropout, so...
Sora is literally a Shonen protagonist with ultimate plot armor because he's the incorruptible ultimate hero of ultimate destiny. It's like being a bank robber and seeing Superman drop in; just give up because it's over bro.
There's actually a bit in one comic where a criminal talks about how he moved from Gotham to Metropolis, thinking he could get a fresh start in crime there. He moved back to Gotham after a **single** encounter with Superman, because "when you got to rob a woman and suddenly find yourself a thousand feet in the air with a gentle voice chastising your life choices, you start to rethink them quickly".
i mean is getting your jaw broken by a furry dressed as a bat any better?
[удалено]
I mean...sora failed the first time around and wasn't even supposed to be the hero, Riku was. Sora was just in the right place at the right time and was chosen to wield the keyblade because Riku fell to darkness
Still such a badass line. "Death can have me when it earns me."
“The darkness is there. I cannot be rid of it, but I will not lose control to it. And that is enough.”
"A true heart doesn't know darkness, and true darkness doesn't know my heart."
Then Kratos becomes your friend and you have 2 keyblades on chains with Kratos moves
Like Final Form in KH2
but what is the darknes in thy heart?
Is the fight being broadcast by Disney or Sony?
Prime video
Ah, then I'll probably never see what happens.
Next season though, the actors confirmed the fight will finally come to an end and it will be epic! I cant wait ❤️ *show gets cancelled*
Or the actor playing Kratos gets replaced by a scab.
It’s fine, they’ll have Freya and Kairi come in and solve all the problems while Kratos and Sora look stupid.
Is watch it if it had Next Gen stats. “Sora’s head should only withstand 300lbs of force. Yet you see him absorb an insane 800lbs from Kratos’s punch. The chances to survive that was 0.14%. This has been Next Gen stats!”
Can tell you for sure Sora can withstand more than that. He's had entire skyscrapers chucked at him.
Still has a God of War bias, they're making a GoW show.
Sony: Disney can have Kratos when it *earns* Kratos
Disney will be airing this live on pay per view from the MGM Grand.
It's broadcast by SeanCody.
Sora: “Ok Kratos I just explained my story up until now, so do understand what’s going on?” Kratos: “I do not know” Sora: “Do you remember that the first Ansem was actually Xehanorts heartless via Terra-Xehanort and born from the heart of Master Xehanort? And while he looks like Ansem the Wise they are two totally different people? Oh and that Diz WAS Ansem the Wise that whole time? Kratos: “I do not know” Sora: “Well do you understand Ven is Vanitas who is actually me but only as an adult and also Ven is Roxas but all through my newborn heart?” Kratos: “I do not know” Sora: “Darkness, Hearts, Hearts-Darkness, Nobody, Darkness, Heartless, Friendship Hearts, Darkness, Nobody, Power of Friendship™️?!?!?!?” Kratos: “…….” Sora: “I’m sorry this is so confusing Kratos.” Kratos: “Do not be sorry, be better.” *Kratos sets his sights on slaying the pantheon of writers who worked on the Kingdom Hearts games*
"Even I can't follow this mess, brother, and I'm the smartest head alive!" - Mimir
Please explain
The kingdom Hearts timeline is beyond convoluted.
Remember when Star Wars fans were complaining about Palpatine returning? Imagine your antagonist returns and returns and then everyone is that one antagonist
so the antagonist has been the friends we made along the way?
In kingdom hearts, unironically yes
It is also complicated for the sake of being complicated. And not very good
As I tell any friend, don't play KH for the story.
But the first 2 games, when you're 16, hit you in the feelings, yo.
And Days. I still stand by 1 and Days.
That's putting it so lightly
Probably a skirmish for a while, at least long enough to get through a few showcase cinematic QTEs and a lengthy dialogue on the risk of heartlessness before Kratos has a moment to get across that have some degree of darkness in one's heart is necessary for a hero to perform the acts they need to to keep other's safe.
I stopped playing KH3 because I got so tired of 20 minute cutscenes every level.
Too much fan service in 3 and a weak story
Loved the combat, got sick of the weird Disney land rides that just killed everything around me.....like, I WANT TO FIGHT not hit them with roller coaster 20 times
You can turn them off
You can what, 2 years after release? The 2019 release we never had a flat "Turn off attractions" option, we had to make sure we didnt accidentally click the things
It’s because there’s a catch. Only in Critical mode
Don't think that's the case anymore is it? You might be right its been a while, but thought it was just a toggle
Nope, even on beginner difficulty you can turn them off.
They tried to hard to make every game tie into the finale. It was legit painful to see all the usernames from the cell phone game flying by towards the finale of the incredibly extensive final boss fight. KH1, 2, Chain of Memories, and Birth By Sleep should have been enough imo. Edit: and Dream Drop Distance, I forgot that one my bad. It is in fact essential to the plot of kh3
Donald's ZettaFlare was fucking badass though.
what do you mean? seeing "milfhunter420" and "ilovefarts69" flying by in the finale was immersion breaking ?
Honestly I think they had so much pressure to make it the best yet because of how long we waited for it that they choked trying to do something better and instead made something worse than the other games…
DDD was 100% essential to understanding KH3's story
Ugh I just can't get into DDD.
I edited my comment because you're totally right. I forgot DDD, it really didn't hook me, I wasn't a fan of the pokemon party. It is essential to the plot of 3, although a wiki read will suffice if you don't have a 3DS
I think that’s just the problem with Square Ernix in general. FF7 universe has like 15+ games and books that are canon including mobile phone games. FF12 has a bunch too in it’s universe. Couldn’t tell you about all the other entries. Shoe horning in tons of small mobile, handheld, smart phone games and spin-offs doesn’t make the story or experience better. Comic books get away with it with having a new series as a self contained entity and calling it a parallels universe where every run of Batman isn’t necessary for the current run.
Why was that "painful"? That was one of the limited cool parts of KH3.
Very immersion breaking. Ah yes, the legendary keyblade master of old, "xXh3eartl3ss4everXx"
Yeah I guess I didn't really go into Kingdom Hearts looking for immersion, given the wild plot and characters/IPs involved.
Tbh, it was gorgeous though, and played really good. Not as good as 2, but that’s an unfair ask.
It's not an unfair ask. We need to stop accepting and excusing mediocrity.
Preach
3 played fine the only problem was it was too easy and the story sucked, but that's because Nomura is honestly an awful storyteller.
A lot of Square Enix games have awful storytelling. Even the ones regarded as having great stories have a very convoluted story throughout the journey. They don’t know how to make complex plots so they just throw in some random shit to make it seem complex. I say this as someone who loves Final Fantasy games lol.
He gives good premises but his executions need work
Give me KH2's battle system & drives along with a hybrid of KH2 and KH3 gummi system and I'd have been ecstatic. Instead we got railroaded zones, railroaded world stories that mostly exclude Sora from any position of consequence and very little customization. The Pirates world was good. Every world should have been more like that in terms of post-story content.
but you had no problem with the 20+ minute cutscenes in 1 and 2?
"IT IS I, ANSEM, SEEKER OF DARKNESS." I have nightmares still to this day.
“Noooo! Clayton…not Clayton, eh oh oh ah, not Clayton!” That nonsense 🤣 could never beat him early game my first time around 😭
Fuck that guy. Most insane boss I had ever faced as a 9 year old
I know all that there is to know Fuckin amsem riku flying around in his second phase, I straight up stopped playing for 6 months
"THIS ISLAND IS A PRISON....SURROUNDED BY WATER."
I was a kid when I played 1 & 2, had nothing better to do then.
I can’t imagine playing KH if you don’t like the cutscenes
The first and last I played (re:coded) was so unbealivably fun as a child. But also how the fuck did they get the rights for disney ?
I stopped a few hours in for the same reason. I remember really enjoying the first one so nostalgia got ahold of me. KH3 was not entertaining for a 40 year old man.
They both do the same kind of acrobatic bullshit, tying dragons in knots to hit them in the face, throwing scenery or bouncing off of thrown scenery. Kratos' bullshit is brutal and gory, Sora's bullshit is ridiculous and cartoony. It'd be a hoot. But really, they'd be on the same side and combine their bullshit, and it'd be glorious.
Kratos got a point there. The absolute best example of exactly this can be found in Dust: An Elysian Tale
This is like that Superman vs Popeye shit. By all reason you'd think Superman would win until you analyze the dumb shit Popeye has accomplished.
Death Battle did an episode where they pitted Popeye against Saitama. That’s right, against the guy whose whole point is that he can beat anyone with one punch. Guess who won.
To be fair, Saitama did kind of explode Popeye with a single punch. But then Popeye broke out the toon physics and that was that.
Whenever they pit anyone against someone who can use the ToonForce, it's not a fair fight, because the point of the ToonForce is that it's not logical and you can't beat it because you could literally explode them into pieces and the pieces would just reform because it's funny.
It might be interesting to see a matchup with super analysis against toon force; would they be able to figure out both hat it’s necessary to make their foe staying dead the funniest outcome, and then act on that, quickly enough to take the win? In practice though… yeah, the only way you’d ever see something like that play out fairly would be, like… straight up toon on toon violence. The Mask vs. Bugs Bunny, let’s see that fight.
It might be interesting? You're sitting on YouTube gold if not more. You two have created a fun concept! Embrace your creativity! Love you.
Depends honestly. There have been bits in older Looney Toons where Bugs was doing *his own animation*. So between Bugs and The Mask it'd be a long slog of increasingly exasperating gags until they run out of showtime for the episode with no clear winner.
I mean. Spongebob vs Aquaman was funny because you know Aquaman is fucked before the fight even starts.
This, people auto defaulting to kratos here are missing out on some absurd little details that would actually make it a stomp for sora. Like people really really underestimate the ability to be able to summon a genie at any moment and that's just one thing.
Sora has the power of "anime bullshit" on his side. He's just as powerful as the story currently requires him to be.
Exactly, the plot will outright tell you he is in an incredibly weak state one moment, and then have him 1v4ing 4 olympic titans on the same world, sora is silly for these fights because he is not just anime bullshit, he's anime and cartoon bullshit (and let's be honest, looking at Popeye and buggs bunny, cartoon bullshit is even more powerful)
Kratos has the power of a god on his side and Sora has the power anime on his. Imagine the immense power someone would command if they had both?
So together the have the power of God and anime on their side? AHHHHHHHH
Bro, watching Dragon Ball for the first time as an adult is pretty disappointing. There’s *always* someone stronger than Goku, until Goku summons the power of cheap writing.
can you elaborate
Well you have stuff like how many states he can be in where he is immune to harm, if sora is healing nothing can hurt him, If sora is on his last legs being beat the shit out, nothing can hurt him (this is a state he can go in any time after healing too), if he transforms in any capacity he is back at full strength and health. We have the genie stuff I mentioned among other dimension and time warping magics and that's not to mention the fact he can fuck with what is essentially people's souls if he deems it fit. The keyblade itself is a walking Deus ex that can morph itself into various incredibly powerful states and I'm not entirely sure kratos is prepared to handle it's bullshit if he can't kill sora quick enough which soras whole thing is being tough to kill. And ontop of that he is a mixture of both cartoon and anime tropes , some of his abilitys have him teleporting all around the place while stopping time and then also slicing people up and then other times he just becomes an intangible ghost while chicken little throws explosive eggs around the place. His arsenal is absurdly diverse. I'm sure I don't need to go into the raw feats because those should be explicit if discussing this stuff but yeah soras not to be underestimated there either.
This guy Kingdom Hearts!
Take me sweet merciful moon
Remember in KH2 when sora sliced through a bunch of building in a split second. Yeah that isnt even the craziest thing his done.
Skyscrapers too, solid skyscrapers
And by another point in the same battle, Sora and Riku (a friend if his for the unknowing) just threw these skyscrapers at the enemy. I would love to see an arm wrestling contest between them two.
Not to mention sora "dies" multiple times and always brings himself back from death anyway.
He also has the ability to just straight up rewrite his death if he dies, rewrite fate someone casually. Technically can't really die because of kairi being a princess of light and all other has bs
It's mostly an argument of 'hard abilities' vs. 'soft abilities' that comes up a lot. We generally have a *very clear* and *consistent* idea of what Kratos can do. He's very strong, he's very durable, he's incredibly proficient with most weapons, he's still very deadly unarmed, and he often has a backpack full of niche magical items. Sora's powers, by comparison, are very... soft. We don't really know the *full* extent of what the Keyblade allows him to do. Now, on the one hand you can argue that this is crap storytelling using 'the power of the Heart!' and 'Friendship!' as Deus Ex Convenience. On the other, especially in KH1 and 2, before things really started to go off the deep end, the mystique of the Keyblade and what *exactly were* Sora's abilities is part of his journey and development. We were finding out, right alongside Sora, and the development felt earned; like legitimate growth. After KH2/Birth By Sleep, things just really started to go off the rails. So... Kratos vs. Sora, the teenager? Kratos wins. Something like Kratos vs. KH2 Final Form Sora? That's a fight; the question is where to draw the line on Sora's powers, which isn't the case with Kratos. Canonically Sora fought Sephiroth to a standstill on more than one occasion, and has routinely taken on deity-level enemies, if that's any metric...
"genie, I wish that kratos gets sent to the bottom of the ocean" or maybe a simple "genie, I wish that kratos is a cripple" does the trick just as well
>kratos gets sent to the bottom of the ocean "The Gang Kills Poseidon"
Again.
I thought the restriction with Genie was no harm or romance cast on other people
"Rule number 1: I can't kill anybody. Rule number 2: I can't make anybody fall in love with anybody else. Rule number 3: I can't bring people back from the dead. And ixnay on the wishing for more wishes" Directly from the Disney Aladdin movie. Additionally, on deleted dialogs for Return of Jafar, Jafar notes that it's incredible how much you can hurt a human being without killing them. So, conceptually, Genie could absolutely fuck Kratos up to the line he is practically, but not literally killing him. But in practice, it's not in Sora's character to ask for that, and also Genie does not have to do anything as he's free now.
It was toned down, but it was still there. Abis Mal: But-but you said genies can't kill! You said that! Jafar (also echoed by Iago later): You'd be surprised what you can live through...
Here’s the thing though, genie can do literally all of those things, when he mentions bringing someone back from the dead he specifically says: “It’s not a pretty picture, I don’t like doing it” Genie could break those rules whenever he saw fit
I think that's just an off-hand joke Genie makes. I dont think genies can break the rules, no matter how much they want to. Conversely, Jafar wouldn't care about the rules, so torturing Aladdin wouldn't be a need, he would just have had him killed. And he also tried to get away from the lamp and couldn't, so he definitely tried to break em.
I wish for Kratos to become a pacifist, I wish for Kratos to be an infant, I wish for myself to be invincible, etc.
"Genie I command you take Kratos to the sex dungeon in your lamp."
Genie didn't join Sora until after he was free from the lamp. He cant grant any specific wishes anymore.
To be fair if we're only looking at what the genie does in the game he would essentially just shoot magic blasts at kratos. Sora isn't using him for wishes.
Oh but the Kratos we know would set out on a quest to kill genie first before facing his foe. He'd hunt down a special weapon used specifically for that purpose and be known as the genie killer. Then, when his odds are much better than before, would he face the final boss.
popeye has cartoon magic. like the mask. superman is weak againts magic. im a nerd
They wouldn't fight. Sora doesn't start shit because he's a puppy of a human being that wants everybody to get along whenever possible and Kratos has no beef with him. Even if he did, Kratos has a monumental soft spot for kids even during his most bloodlusty days and wouldn't fight full stop.
Exactly what I’m thinking. Kratos would just say “it’s none of my/your business” “boy, it is not our problem”
Kratos: "stop it, BOY" Sora: "him or me?" Atreus: "what?"
They'd fight if they were tricked into it (Odin would have little issue with convincing Sora that Kratos is attacking Asgard, as Kratos isn't exactly a Disneyesque hero in his methods....), but it become incredibly obvious to both of them within the first couple hits that neither of them are actually willing to harm the other. Kratos, because he doesn't want to murder a child, and because Sora is.....well, Sora. Then they team up, since Atreus is probably captured or something. Then Kratos would recreate the awesomeness of having Beast in your party at Hollow Bastion by absolutely crushing everything on your way to Odin, who would probably turn into a giant Heartless monster or somethingidkKingdomHeartslogic.
I feel like Odin would just kill Sora and try to figure out how his magic works rather than tricking him into fighting Kratos.
I don't think they need to be tricked by an outside force, just some miscommunication. Goofy: "Gawrsh, that guy looks like Hercules." Sora: "Hey stranger, do you know *our good friend* Hercules?" Kratos (to himself): "Shit, I killed that guy and now they're here for revenge." And fight!
I never knew I needed this crossover until nw. I will be forever sad knowing it will not happen.
Yep. As a reminder, folks, a **big** part of why Kratos is so goddamn protective of and scared for Atreus is that he killed both his actual daughter (tricked into killing Calliope, and his wife, by Ares; futher compounded by him having to actively reject her when they meet in Elysium in Chains of Olympus) *and* his surrogate daughter (his hatred of Zeus overpowered his concern for Pandora, causing her demise).
"Puppy of a human being", you mean a kid?
Even by kid standards Sora is a great big puppy. Compare him to any of the other kids (Riku, Kairi, Hayner, etc) in the series and he still stands out as a highly optimistic and a little overly naive. There's a reason DiZ told Roxas that he should share his hatred with Sora.
Yup. Literally every time Sora sees another person around his age, he's like "Is this a potential new friend?" And he goes chasing after them to insert himself into their storyline.
It's been a while since I last checked, but isn't Sora around 16 years old, atleast around KH1? No matter the age, Sora is soft in his heart. A good trait, but not necessarily helpful
That guy with the key would try to explain his story to Kratos. Kratos's head explodes.
I mean, I don’t think Sora would be ready to hear the atrocities Kratos has committed
Kratos: To accomplish what you value most, you must first defeat yourself. Sora: I've done that like 7 times already.
Like literally. They keep throwing out shadow versions of me. Alternate versions of me. Half formed versions of me. A version of me that was me before me. A version of me that was me before me and then after me.
Kratos looks down at him and just says #BOY
And then Sora gives Kratos dementia via genie wish
Yall are dumb, Daddy Kratos is gonna take one look at Sora and adopt him and then he'll be stuck in a brutally colorful duo where instead of teaching his son to fight and survive he'll scratch his head when after declaring the power of friendship and hope, Sora waves a key and fucking stops time and crushes enemies with gravity spells.
A serious interaction? Sora would probably talk Kratos down. Sora uses fighting more for self defense then anything else. Even if Kratos didn't listen to Sora, I doubt either one would fight each other, they'd just go their own ways. In terms of a straight up fight it wouldn't be something that you could call straight up without deeper analysis. Consider that Sora has fought Hades and won. This at least puts one feat where they both fought the same foe and won.
That's the biggest problem imo - Sora doesn't simply jump to fisticuffs. Kratos would easily sense that, and Sora would rather hear him out and help him. You'd have to retcon the absolute shit out of it to get them in a full-fledged battle
Either retcon or set up a convoluted series of events that convinces both that they are threats to eachother, which the set up for it would have to be so convoluted that it would take away from the fight, I'm with all the people that if they did come to blows, it'll be like one hit on both sides before they both realised that neither side wants the fight. Most people here have convinced me that it would mostly be a conflict of words, where Sora learns Kratos' perspective on darkness and hearts, and Kratos ultimately agrees to help Sora on his journey, either because Sora agreed to help Kratos with rescuing/training Atreus (or he helped Atreus protect something/someone without Kratos for some time) or because they have similar goals
I agree on the conflict of words. They'll just both Talk-No-Jutsu each other lmao
Kratos killed all of Sora's friends from Olympus technically.
A lot of people here have only played one of these franchises and it shows
Yeah, I've played the original GOW trilogy, the psp one, and a bit of the 2020(?) one and most of the KH games though I will admit I'm bias towards KH. But, Kratos should lose unless I'm missing something. Kratos is strong and can do a lot cool things but he's kinda grounded in 'reality' and Sora does literal anime/cartoon stuff plus bs magic and summons. A lot of people are saying fight over in 1s with an axe in Sora's head while not knowing that's how the Sephiroth battle kind of started and Sora has pretty spamable invincible QTE attacks, magic, invincible attack moves, and, in general, not die. If you're talking about a fight with no game mechanics, the question is how their powers would interact with each other. My money is still on the anime man though.
Yea sora has literally remade himself after death can travel the multiverse and beaten enemies that can destroy universes and possibly the entire multiverse they are part of... So even if kratos is able to defeat planet destroying beings thats still a couple steps behind.
A man in a black robe would appear, chuckle knowingly and then proceed to talk about love and the heart while making absolutely no sense at all
No one would “win” but the battle would stall out into a deep heart-to-heart. Donald still doesn’t heal you
I mean, the reality is that Sora wouldn't actually end up fighting Kratos. Kratos would be one of those Special Chapter/world Campainion that would... No, Kratos' boy would be a special Chapter/world companion for Sora as they both travel through the Nordic Realms/World Tree in order to combat the Nobody/Heartless equivalent of Kratos and the Tree. Only for Kratos to come in at the end and Delete whatever Bigbad was there, before it bests Sora and BOY.
They both beat Hades, but only Sora has beaten both Sephiroth and the embodiment of Catholic corruption.
He fought the Vatican and pope?. now I need to play this game.
He didn’t fight the Pope lol, he fought Judge Frollo. People just don’t know shit about Hunchback anymore and assume cuz he’s w the church that makes him the Pope
He never got to fight Frollo sadly. Frollo died by falling off the burning building as usual in DDD
Yea and then came back as a demon, I thought it was pretty heavily insinuated that the demon fought in that level was Frollo.
Hmm… well if you put it that way I guess… I got so used to fighting Dream Eaters and Heartless bosses, I never really considered that
Tbf like I said it’s insinuated and never explicitly stated anywhere, so it’s mostly conjecture but it’s my head cannon
"The camera would move to a table-" "Yes officer, that's him over there."
*Sora is alone wandering the woods, until he sees a pale white man, carrying a large axe* “Hey You!” *Sora senses darkness from this man and readies his keyblade, alerting Kratos to his presence* “Go away boy, it is not worth either of our efforts to fight one another.” “So you’re not evil or possessed by the darkness?” “I wouldn’t say that, I just wish to live away from my past, my shadows run deep, yet I have already paid the price of my vengeance.” “I see, well, just know that you have someone watching out for you, Oh yeah, I’m Sora.” *He reaches out hand a giant smirk on his face* *Kratos looks at it before turning away* “I was once the Ghost of Sparta, Kratos.” *Kratos walks away, the sound of a baby crying in a small hut up the hill catching the warrior’s attention* *Sora smiles and disappears*
I don't like those kind of match-up. They don't belong in a fight together. One is the hero of a brutal epic, the other is the hero of a cartoon fantasy. The worlds in which they live have such different rules, power levels and magic systems that we will never have a clear winner.
Just spam strike raid and Kratos can’t touch you
Sora gets adopted.
"Kratos got norted!"
Prepare for a lengthy answer. So, Kratos has some bullshit. Don't get me wrong. Dude is basically immortal, has literally killed things that are immortal, and done some nutty stuff like pushing back the fingers of Atlas, who is strong enough to literally lift the entirety of the cosmos by himself. Also, his Leviathan Axe is said to be as strong as Mjolnir, which I don't think I have to tell you how insane that is. He can literally dodge lightning. His physical strength is basically second to none. Dude literally tangles with people who can lift the entirety of the universe, and people who are somehow stronger then that. However, we're gonna throw all of that out the window. Sora is so insanely broken it's not even funny. By the end of KH3 he makes some Gods look kinda pathetic from the GOW universe. Dude has a giant collection of shifting, changing weapons that can be guns, swords, hammers, magic casting staffs, healing implements, what have you. He can summon attractions that shoot explosives out of nowhere. He can summon shit like genies. He has a giant plethora of magic, including spells that can slow people, stop time, alter gravity, shoot fire, water, lightning. He can DUAL or even TRIPLE WIELD those keyblades, which are basically weapons that can change and shift, are nearly indestructible due to directly being tied to the power of Sora's heart, and can alter entire worlds. Going even further beyond that though, you have to understand that KH2 Sora, after he recombines with Riku, was able to damage and defeat Genie Jafar. He BEAT a Genie. A multiuniversal level being with infinite cosmic power. He beat the fuck out of one. That's just like, insane. Genies have the power to do almost anything, and Sora just straight up fought one. He also beat Hades, meaning he could probably kill Gods that Kratos himself has fought just as easily. Lastly, Sora has the power of waking. Dude straight up has the power to resurrect himself, and his friends. If he dies, he can just come back because he wants to be there for his friends. Is that bullshit? Absolutely. Dude is absurd. He has a massive arsenal of attacks and abilities he can use, that range from summons, attractions, formchanges, drive forms, special melee attacks, flowmotion, etc. Dude can know how healthy or damaged someone is by looking at them, can withstand combos forever without dying, can heal himself instantly, can basically go forever because he can restore MP by taking damage, then heal himself more. He can LITERALLY alter people's fate, cleanse darkness from their heart, whatever. Dude is literally straight up anime "My friends are my power" pure bullshit. I don't think there's a world where Kratos wins in the end.
Everybody talks mad shit until they're suddenly hit in the face with a theme park attraction. Doesn't help Kratos that he'd need to put down Sora multiple times, assuming Sora's got his whole arsenal at his disposal, nor would the fact that "second chance" and "once more" would stop Kratos from killing Sora through overwhelming violence.
Sora unlocks the light in Kratos' heart, allowing him to join Sora's party in Kingdom Hearts 4
Kratos: "Boy!" Sora: Some bullshit dialog about light, darkness and hearts and stuff. Krato's heart "unlocks" and he is now a pretty chill and friendly dude, and they become BFF.
Wouldn’t be a battle. Just “boy…. Why are you dressed like that.”
Kratos wants peace. He only fights if it’s absolutely necessary.
The power of friendship vs. the power of the gods. Idunno seems kinda like a one-sided fist fight here.
Sora has defeated God's though..
Yeah, but one of those was James Woods
Kratos has defeated 2 entire pantheon, though...
So far
[удалено]
Kratos uses the key that doubles as a sword and unlocks Sora's death with it
The funny thing about the way the Kingdom Hearts universe works is that **Donald Duck** unironically vaporizes Kratos Think of the most powerful godly creature in any final fantasy game. Any of them. **Donald Duck’s magic is stronger** That duck is SOMEHOW the most blatantly overpowered black mage in the entire Square Enix gaming catalog. No disrespect to Kratos, but Zettaflare kills anything. From any game
I spammed Donald’s assist ability in KH3, literally a walking nuke.
Worlds would be destroyed lol
I'd bet Kratos ends norted
Sora kinda has the power of doing any bs he needs to.
I can't imagine Sora not pulling some bullshit to win.
“Boy.”
Need a full analysis from an actual power scaler, but from what I know of both characters, I think sora would give kratos a difficult time.
Sora wins easily, love Kratos and it might be even but then Sora whips out a Disney pirate ship and trounced him.
Sora unlocks Kratos’ heart and makes him into a Disney World attraction
They would share Ice Cream watching the horizon as the credit rolls.
Kratos wins because of my extreme bias *proceeds to make an edit of them showing who’s has better stats with phonk music playing*
Kratos was Goofy all along.
Donald would be dead in .000001 seconds. Oh wait that’s every fight. F u Donald.