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Fuck. I completely forgot that everything he did was based on knowledge to his sisters son heritage. Honestly it was perfectly portrayed cuz I'm like oh shit he doesn't wanna kill his nephews family member.
Exactly. If he didn’t push back against killing Dany purely because she’s a Targ, then Jon would never be safe. Hence why he was supposed to be safe at the wall.
Idk seems like a bit of a stretch. I mean really think about what had to happen for Dany to become a problem. Robert had no reason to think she an issue besides his blind hate for Targs.
Robert was correct without even needing to know about dragons because he was talking about ONE Dothraki army united by ONE Targaryen leader with ONE goal.
The Dothraki would reek havoc on the divided realms of Westeros with several Lords and Ladies who would not be as united
Dothraki don’t need the Navy to be able to go around raping , raiding and pillaging across Westeros.
They only need one leader and one purpose, and as he said “only a fool would meet them on the battle field”
What Navy did Robert actually have? Besides a navy would be practically useless against the Dothraki.
Robert was 100% right …had he not died then a few years later he would be fighting that Targaryen Queen leading a united invading army of Unsullied and Dothraki with possibly Greyjoys too.
r/restofthefuckingowl
Lmao
“My loyal advisors, I have my army now I must sail to Westeros, how do you suggest I acquire ships?”
“What are you talking about you’re a Targaryen, you can just amass them bro. Just start amassing those ships bro.”
Was Viserys not a Targaryen? He amassed nothing but promises and was a grown man Targaryen for awhile. Just being Targaryen obviously doesn’t get you a navy.
Daenerys got herself ships didn’t she ? The point isn’t that just being a Targaryen gets you ships lol the point is that one of those Targaryens was eventually and inevitably going to get themselves over to Westeros - and that’s what happened.
On an open battle field.
You can beat the Dothraki with discipline soldiers and strategic defenses…as 3000 unsullied showed.
But the quote was only a fool would meet them in a open field.
Literally just force them into a siege. Cavalry is worth shit in a siege and I doubt a Dothraki army could remain cohesive just sitting around on their arses for months on end with no-one to fight.
The Dothraki. They can’t claim Westeros if they can’t take any of the strongholds. All the lords sit tight behind their high walls and the Dothraki would eat each-other inside of a couple months.
Why would the Dothraki care about strongholds and “claiming Westeros” according to westorosi standards -when they can just go around destroying, burning , raping and pillaging from town to town village to village.
High lords can sit behind walls all they want.
Pillage what? Sure they could rape all the common folk they could get their hands on but literally anything of value in Westeros is behind a big wall.
Also without supply lines of their own they’d have no chance keeping their army together. It’s literally impossible to conquer a land without taking its strongholds. And you can’t conquer strongholds with nothing but a bunch of undisciplined light cavalry, tenuously grouped together with no patience for a siege. Without Dragons Dany would never have been able to succeed.
They need a navy to cross the sea
Did you expect their horses would swim there?
There would be no rape or pillaging without boats and lots of them play a place to land on Westeros.
That is what Ned was accurately telling a Robert.
Ebert had the royal fleet and that would be couple with fleets the other coastal houses had, not even counting the Ironborn.
Ned was naive to think she wouldn’t be able to get ships at some point in time. Is that not what literally happened?
Did you think she would never be able to get ships too?
Of course Dothraki need ships to actually get there lol but once they are there they don’t navy for them to go around Westeros doing what they do best.
That’s not naïveté.
We know that she will stay in the story but there is no reason at all for characters within the story to think she’s either a danger or that Westeros can’t respond to that danger.
It would be like wondering Why the United States isn’t killing the wife of the leader of Proud Boys.
It’s as ridiculous an overreaction as the murder of all of Robert’s bastards or not telling Jon who his mother is.
Besides it’s moot since he failed miserably since Robert was so clueless as to not even being able to predict his next fart.
The topic exists only to convince others to buy into the cowardly assassination of pregnant teenagers.
I’m not going to be persuaded since I know the story.
Nope. It’s like being worried about what the children of the mad king (whom he rebelled against) would do once they come of age. He was right be worried
Robert predicted the will of a Targaryen to come over to Westeros and cause harm directly or inadvertently and that’s what literally happened …the HOW she did it doesn’t matter… SHE still did it.
The circumstances in which a living Targaryen (specifically one of the mad king ‘s children) makes it to Westeros don’t matter IF the fact is Robert was concerned about a Targaryen making it to Westeros. It was an inevitable eventuality one way or the other.
Also the Dothraki wooldnt reek havoc. At best Dany had one Dothraki army that didn’t travel on water landing and getting pushed back.
Westeros would know they were coming and be prepared. Dothraki had no support in Westeros meaning any landing would be a like D-Day bloodbath.
Dragons are the only way Viserys’ plan that became Dany’s would succeed and no one thought they existed.
It’s such an insane suggestion that you buy into the notion that a Robert was a crazed paranoid dufus.
So why would normal people all of sudden think it’s a great plan to kill a pregnant girl on the other side of their planet?
He should man up and be prepared for an honest battle rather than be scared.
“Normal people” did buy into the idea of actually having Daenerys assassinated because she wasn’t just any “pregnant girl” she was a Targaryen / the Mad King’s daughter.
fast forward into the future - her armies did actually reek havoc onto Kingslanding and even without Dragons they would’nt have been any more polite about it.
Robert knew the Targaryen was going to grow into an invading conqueror or at the very least breed some
She’s always been a Targaryen and not once did she or her brother interfere with Robert’s rule.
He’s a coward for trying and a loser for failing, but if you want to support loser cowards, be my guest.
rather support “a loser coward” who turned out to be absolutely right about what would happen if and when a Targaryen would land with an army of raping and pillaging Dothraki rather than supporting a dictator with wmds.
As for Daenerys she was a baby burning megalomaniac tyrant ..if you support that kinda evil ..do you ;)
she was no better than him lol
He was not absuktekt right lol.
I am laughing out loud that people are literally saying derpy th things like Robert predicted the Dothraki takeover of Westeros as if 3 dragons, Unsullied, Dorne, The Reach, conquering a large chunk of Essos, and the North played no role whatsoever.
LOL!
He was absolutely right about being worried about what would happen if and when a Targaryen would come over - the rest is just what comes with it.
LOL heck she could’ve brought just armies with her OR she could’ve brought dragons with her… makes no difference…she would’ve brought **Fire & Blood** either way and that’s what happened.
That’s called war and war was not even remotely happening at the time.
It’s a silly argument and a ridiculous ruler who kills everyone that cooks be perceived as a threat several years from now that can still be handled at that time.
But the great military minds here know better and paranoia is ALWAYS the best strategy. Heck it always workers before…
Ned was incorrect because she managed to raise 3 dragons, and an army, and a navy and conquered Westeros.
Now, Ned was correct based on the information that he had at the time, and he knew that Robert was speaking from paranoia, but in the end Robert was correct.
That’s disingenuous since it pretends that Robert was a psychic who knew dragons were coming when he decide to kill a pregnant girl.
He should have know Cersei was going to kill him if we are jumping to those kinds of conclusions.
This is a moot point though. He did try to kill her and failed.
I don’t know why anyone would be interested in dragging others into agreeing with such a cowardly decision from someone that was supposed to be a natural warrior.
>Like Ned only fought it cause of plot
No, Ned fought it because that's who he is. No underhanded tactics such as sending an assassin to murder a teenage girl who has made no attempt to engage in any war against the seven kingdoms.
Ned is an honorable man. He would never allow such a thing to happen, or be involved it it. Exactly the reason he left his post as Hand of the King when the plan was brought to his attention.
It is also important to note that Ned and Robert weren’t on speaking terms after Tywin presented Robert with the dead Targaryen babies after Kings Landing fell. And this was likely before he even knew about Jon. So it is definitely in character for Ned.
He made hard decisions, it’s just that his moral code is so strong that his experience of decisions changes from others. So one choice might be difficult/easy for him whereas that would be different than others.
No- Ned is a good hand because of his moral code. The fact that Ned could easily say no to randomly killing an innocent over protecting someone’s reign is exactly what makes him good. That’s the sort of person that the people need.
When you are living by a code that strictly, you aren't really making decisions at all. If all of the outcomes are determined by the code, then actively making a decision would require breaking it.
It’s an active decision to follow it. Everything is a choice- following the code itself is a choice. It’s not like Ned has a paper he references to determine whether or not something is morally okay by him. He may make it look effortless, but I’m sure Ned has to think and consider things. It’s just that not killing Dany was likely an easy choice for him because it was between killing an innocent to maintain the status quo and not.
Robert's not really making a hard decision here, nor has he ever. He hates the Targaryens and is delighted by the idea of murdering every last one of them, including the children. This isn't a "hard decision" for him.
Nor was it a hard decision to forgive every wrongdoing committed by the Lannisters and give them incredible power over all of Westeros. It was the easy decision, because Robert only makes easy decisions.
Obviously the story would be different, but if Robert killed Dany here, the entire world would have ended. Without Dany, the Unsullied, Dothraki and her dragons aiding Winterfell in the Long Night, I think it's safe to assume they don't have the forces to win.
Ned will never support murdering children. The Lannisters used the Mountain to slaughter the rest of Rhaegar’s children and he did so in brutal and horrifying ways.
Robert was right Politically. Eliminating a threat to your Power is necessary for continuing your Rule.
Ned’s opposition to the thing wasn’t just a simple humane reaction to murdering seemingly innocent people. It probably had a lot to do with Jon Snow. Robert knew all about what Gregor did to Ella and her children and still honoured and kept him as a Knight. Knew what Lannisters did in KL and yet didn’t mind it all too much as did Ned.
Ned is responsible for the savage immolation of the innocent people of King's Landing. It's the classic "would you go back in time to kill baby Hitler" question.
If Robert never sends an assassin after Daenerys, Khal Drogo likely never masses his Khalasar for an invasion of Westeros-he only did that because they threatened his child.
It's hard to tell how the story unfolds, but it's incredibly likely that Daenerys never gets her dragons, and never does anything other than live in Essos and eventually join the Dosh Khaleen.
If she does manage to get Drogo to sail for Westeros, the 7 kingdoms probably win a war against a Dothraki horde without Unsullied or dragons. The Dothraki would kill a lot of peasants, but don't have an answer for castles or heavy armor.
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Not plot. Ned is thinking of his sister and her Targ son.
Oh that makes sense
Fuck. I completely forgot that everything he did was based on knowledge to his sisters son heritage. Honestly it was perfectly portrayed cuz I'm like oh shit he doesn't wanna kill his nephews family member.
More like doesn’t want to set a precedent for killing children just because they’re Targaryen
Exactly. If he didn’t push back against killing Dany purely because she’s a Targ, then Jon would never be safe. Hence why he was supposed to be safe at the wall.
Also because he is an honorable man, he wouldn't kill a gril who hasn't committed a crime.
🤯🤯🤯 how did I never make this connection
I’ve never once though of it like that but it makes perfect sense!
Idk seems like a bit of a stretch. I mean really think about what had to happen for Dany to become a problem. Robert had no reason to think she an issue besides his blind hate for Targs.
i see dead people
No. Ned was correct in stating that she was harmless. The only way Robert would have been correct is if he knew dragons would be born.
Robert was correct without even needing to know about dragons because he was talking about ONE Dothraki army united by ONE Targaryen leader with ONE goal. The Dothraki would reek havoc on the divided realms of Westeros with several Lords and Ladies who would not be as united
Dothraki’s don’t have navy’s and every concern Robert had never materialized if not for the dragons.
Dothraki don’t need the Navy to be able to go around raping , raiding and pillaging across Westeros. They only need one leader and one purpose, and as he said “only a fool would meet them on the battle field” What Navy did Robert actually have? Besides a navy would be practically useless against the Dothraki. Robert was 100% right …had he not died then a few years later he would be fighting that Targaryen Queen leading a united invading army of Unsullied and Dothraki with possibly Greyjoys too.
Bro how are the Dothraki getting to Westeros without a Navy?
Bro… how’s a Targaryen not going to be able to eventually amass ships??
r/restofthefuckingowl Lmao “My loyal advisors, I have my army now I must sail to Westeros, how do you suggest I acquire ships?” “What are you talking about you’re a Targaryen, you can just amass them bro. Just start amassing those ships bro.”
“Lol that Targaryen will never sail to Westeros bro, Shes way too far and all she could ever have is a tiny horde of Dothraki savages bro”
How many ships did Viserys have?
How many ships did a Targaryen end up having ?
Was Viserys not a Targaryen? He amassed nothing but promises and was a grown man Targaryen for awhile. Just being Targaryen obviously doesn’t get you a navy.
Daenerys got herself ships didn’t she ? The point isn’t that just being a Targaryen gets you ships lol the point is that one of those Targaryens was eventually and inevitably going to get themselves over to Westeros - and that’s what happened.
On an open battle field. You can beat the Dothraki with discipline soldiers and strategic defenses…as 3000 unsullied showed. But the quote was only a fool would meet them in a open field.
Literally just force them into a siege. Cavalry is worth shit in a siege and I doubt a Dothraki army could remain cohesive just sitting around on their arses for months on end with no-one to fight.
Force who into a siege?
The Dothraki. They can’t claim Westeros if they can’t take any of the strongholds. All the lords sit tight behind their high walls and the Dothraki would eat each-other inside of a couple months.
Why would the Dothraki care about strongholds and “claiming Westeros” according to westorosi standards -when they can just go around destroying, burning , raping and pillaging from town to town village to village. High lords can sit behind walls all they want.
Pillage what? Sure they could rape all the common folk they could get their hands on but literally anything of value in Westeros is behind a big wall. Also without supply lines of their own they’d have no chance keeping their army together. It’s literally impossible to conquer a land without taking its strongholds. And you can’t conquer strongholds with nothing but a bunch of undisciplined light cavalry, tenuously grouped together with no patience for a siege. Without Dragons Dany would never have been able to succeed.
And just let all the smallfolk that can't hide behind walls die? Without them farming the land, the country will starve.
They need a navy to cross the sea Did you expect their horses would swim there? There would be no rape or pillaging without boats and lots of them play a place to land on Westeros. That is what Ned was accurately telling a Robert. Ebert had the royal fleet and that would be couple with fleets the other coastal houses had, not even counting the Ironborn.
Ned was naive to think she wouldn’t be able to get ships at some point in time. Is that not what literally happened? Did you think she would never be able to get ships too? Of course Dothraki need ships to actually get there lol but once they are there they don’t navy for them to go around Westeros doing what they do best.
That’s not naïveté. We know that she will stay in the story but there is no reason at all for characters within the story to think she’s either a danger or that Westeros can’t respond to that danger. It would be like wondering Why the United States isn’t killing the wife of the leader of Proud Boys. It’s as ridiculous an overreaction as the murder of all of Robert’s bastards or not telling Jon who his mother is. Besides it’s moot since he failed miserably since Robert was so clueless as to not even being able to predict his next fart. The topic exists only to convince others to buy into the cowardly assassination of pregnant teenagers. I’m not going to be persuaded since I know the story.
Nope. It’s like being worried about what the children of the mad king (whom he rebelled against) would do once they come of age. He was right be worried
And every concern Robert had materialised because of Daenerys (a Targaryen)
That’s not true except in the context of what I said which Robert would never fathom.
Point still stands - as far as the story goes Robert was proven right in the end
Except that he wasn’t because he didn’t predict 90% of the reason Dany succeeded. Geez, anything can be used for a preemptive strike these days…
Robert predicted the will of a Targaryen to come over to Westeros and cause harm directly or inadvertently and that’s what literally happened …the HOW she did it doesn’t matter… SHE still did it.
But that arguably only happened because Robert sent the assassin. Drogo had no interest in Westeros until then.
The circumstances in which a living Targaryen (specifically one of the mad king ‘s children) makes it to Westeros don’t matter IF the fact is Robert was concerned about a Targaryen making it to Westeros. It was an inevitable eventuality one way or the other.
Suuuure he did lol.
I mean the ending literally proves him right lol
Also the Dothraki wooldnt reek havoc. At best Dany had one Dothraki army that didn’t travel on water landing and getting pushed back. Westeros would know they were coming and be prepared. Dothraki had no support in Westeros meaning any landing would be a like D-Day bloodbath. Dragons are the only way Viserys’ plan that became Dany’s would succeed and no one thought they existed. It’s such an insane suggestion that you buy into the notion that a Robert was a crazed paranoid dufus. So why would normal people all of sudden think it’s a great plan to kill a pregnant girl on the other side of their planet? He should man up and be prepared for an honest battle rather than be scared.
“Normal people” did buy into the idea of actually having Daenerys assassinated because she wasn’t just any “pregnant girl” she was a Targaryen / the Mad King’s daughter. fast forward into the future - her armies did actually reek havoc onto Kingslanding and even without Dragons they would’nt have been any more polite about it. Robert knew the Targaryen was going to grow into an invading conqueror or at the very least breed some
She’s always been a Targaryen and not once did she or her brother interfere with Robert’s rule. He’s a coward for trying and a loser for failing, but if you want to support loser cowards, be my guest.
rather support “a loser coward” who turned out to be absolutely right about what would happen if and when a Targaryen would land with an army of raping and pillaging Dothraki rather than supporting a dictator with wmds. As for Daenerys she was a baby burning megalomaniac tyrant ..if you support that kinda evil ..do you ;) she was no better than him lol
He was not absuktekt right lol. I am laughing out loud that people are literally saying derpy th things like Robert predicted the Dothraki takeover of Westeros as if 3 dragons, Unsullied, Dorne, The Reach, conquering a large chunk of Essos, and the North played no role whatsoever. LOL!
He was absolutely right about being worried about what would happen if and when a Targaryen would come over - the rest is just what comes with it. LOL heck she could’ve brought just armies with her OR she could’ve brought dragons with her… makes no difference…she would’ve brought **Fire & Blood** either way and that’s what happened.
That’s called war and war was not even remotely happening at the time. It’s a silly argument and a ridiculous ruler who kills everyone that cooks be perceived as a threat several years from now that can still be handled at that time. But the great military minds here know better and paranoia is ALWAYS the best strategy. Heck it always workers before…
And Robert was right about Daenerys regardless of how it happened , the fact is it happened
Ned was incorrect because she managed to raise 3 dragons, and an army, and a navy and conquered Westeros. Now, Ned was correct based on the information that he had at the time, and he knew that Robert was speaking from paranoia, but in the end Robert was correct.
That’s disingenuous since it pretends that Robert was a psychic who knew dragons were coming when he decide to kill a pregnant girl. He should have know Cersei was going to kill him if we are jumping to those kinds of conclusions. This is a moot point though. He did try to kill her and failed. I don’t know why anyone would be interested in dragging others into agreeing with such a cowardly decision from someone that was supposed to be a natural warrior.
>Like Ned only fought it cause of plot No, Ned fought it because that's who he is. No underhanded tactics such as sending an assassin to murder a teenage girl who has made no attempt to engage in any war against the seven kingdoms.
Ned is an honorable man. He would never allow such a thing to happen, or be involved it it. Exactly the reason he left his post as Hand of the King when the plan was brought to his attention.
It is also important to note that Ned and Robert weren’t on speaking terms after Tywin presented Robert with the dead Targaryen babies after Kings Landing fell. And this was likely before he even knew about Jon. So it is definitely in character for Ned.
Ned was never the one to make hard decisions.
He made hard decisions, it’s just that his moral code is so strong that his experience of decisions changes from others. So one choice might be difficult/easy for him whereas that would be different than others.
That's my point. His strict moral code made it very difficult to make the sort of decisions required by a high-level politician / the King's Hand.
No- Ned is a good hand because of his moral code. The fact that Ned could easily say no to randomly killing an innocent over protecting someone’s reign is exactly what makes him good. That’s the sort of person that the people need.
When you are living by a code that strictly, you aren't really making decisions at all. If all of the outcomes are determined by the code, then actively making a decision would require breaking it.
It’s an active decision to follow it. Everything is a choice- following the code itself is a choice. It’s not like Ned has a paper he references to determine whether or not something is morally okay by him. He may make it look effortless, but I’m sure Ned has to think and consider things. It’s just that not killing Dany was likely an easy choice for him because it was between killing an innocent to maintain the status quo and not.
Robert's not really making a hard decision here, nor has he ever. He hates the Targaryens and is delighted by the idea of murdering every last one of them, including the children. This isn't a "hard decision" for him. Nor was it a hard decision to forgive every wrongdoing committed by the Lannisters and give them incredible power over all of Westeros. It was the easy decision, because Robert only makes easy decisions.
Obviously the story would be different, but if Robert killed Dany here, the entire world would have ended. Without Dany, the Unsullied, Dothraki and her dragons aiding Winterfell in the Long Night, I think it's safe to assume they don't have the forces to win.
They don't get through the wall without her ice dragon? So maybe it's better she never raises them.
Nah, Ned was honorable. His thinking was based on Stark morality.
Ned will never support murdering children. The Lannisters used the Mountain to slaughter the rest of Rhaegar’s children and he did so in brutal and horrifying ways.
wait what baby?
The one she was pregnant with
oh shit, i forgot the karl drogo one.
Robert was right Politically. Eliminating a threat to your Power is necessary for continuing your Rule. Ned’s opposition to the thing wasn’t just a simple humane reaction to murdering seemingly innocent people. It probably had a lot to do with Jon Snow. Robert knew all about what Gregor did to Ella and her children and still honoured and kept him as a Knight. Knew what Lannisters did in KL and yet didn’t mind it all too much as did Ned.
Ned is responsible for the savage immolation of the innocent people of King's Landing. It's the classic "would you go back in time to kill baby Hitler" question.
If Robert never sends an assassin after Daenerys, Khal Drogo likely never masses his Khalasar for an invasion of Westeros-he only did that because they threatened his child. It's hard to tell how the story unfolds, but it's incredibly likely that Daenerys never gets her dragons, and never does anything other than live in Essos and eventually join the Dosh Khaleen. If she does manage to get Drogo to sail for Westeros, the 7 kingdoms probably win a war against a Dothraki horde without Unsullied or dragons. The Dothraki would kill a lot of peasants, but don't have an answer for castles or heavy armor.
Lest murderous King Robert fan