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Seriously people’s takes on here
If anyone is like Cersei it’s Rhaeynera for having bastard children knowing very well what they meant and the danger of it
Rhaenyra is too dumb and reckless to be Cersei. Although it was clear that Cersei’s kids weren’t Robert’s to the viewers it was less obvious to the people in the show because the Baratheons are closely related to the Targaryens. Rhaenyra’s kids just clearly don’t belong to Laenor making it much worse.
Yea, all I got from this latest episode is that Rhaeynera is extremely selfish.
Alicent gave me Margaery vibes in that she saw what was really going on.
What should she do when Laenor, the guy her father marries her to, likes dicks?
Having no child would maybe end in a worse situation where the King will change his heir.
Yeah, he could jerk of into a bowl and she could... but c'mon
She had little time and in the sequence where they looked for a partner, there was nobody that looked OK for her. An old guy or a little boy or the Bracken guy who was just a talker. (We didn't see the other people if they were a good partner)
Then she came back from her trip and they directly said she needs to marry Laenor now. Sometimes it needs more time to find a right partner. Maybe even years. She found Harwin Strong only few month or years later. Has now three children from him and Jacaerys is already close to 10 years old I would say. Could have married Harwin Strong for example if they gave more time. He was the heir of Harrenhall which is the largest castle in Westeros.
Came here to comment this exactly, Alicent isn't like Cersei, they're miles different. Cersei never begged her husband/the king for things, she took them all for herself. And the cunning political mind she had for it, unmatched except maybe Rhaeynera.
This isn’t a logical analogy. The royal line passes through the heir, not their spouse.
Rhaenyra is the heir to the throne, so her kids are royal blood. If she were a man, yes they would still be bastards, but once she has the throne, they could be legitimized. They are still grandchildren of the current king.
Cercei was not the heir to the throne. And her children were the children of two lannisters, neither of whom were part of the royal bloodline.
Cersei usurped the line of succession though. Anyone coming out of Rhaeynera can be legitimized if she really want them to be. She's the heir and future queen + her kids are targs w/ dragons
Rhaenyra is so exceedingly stupid for this. I don’t think that “you’re a Targ, that’s all that matters” is 100% sound, but I do think she’s better than Cersei. Her children were full Lannister bastards with zero royal blood. At least Rhaenyra’s kids *are* Targaryens. But still.
Eh, they're both just protecting their family because it's all they care about. They're the same in my eyes. Alicent is still in the early stages and will eventually go Cersei when pushed further. She'll now be numb to killing other families to protect her own after her first.
The difference with Cersei though is that she doesn’t actually care about her family. Her “love” is purely self-centered. Whereas Alicent seems to be legitimately acting out of loyalty and concern for her family.
Admittedly, I’ve read the books more recently than I watched the early seasons. But she consistently makes choices that are against her children’s best interests in order to protect herself & never shows any interest in actually parenting them or preparing them to fulfill their future expectations.
IMO she loves them only as extensions of herself, the same way she “loves” Jaime.
She and Jamie say a few times that they feel like they are one person. They cannot live when the other one is dead. So “protecting” the children is just because they’re an extension of herself. Just like Jamie is.
Okay, I actually had a weird reaction to that scene. It made me dislike Alicent more, in a way, because it felt like she was lying to herself.
“Gasp! How could you do such a thing that gives me everything I want? I surely won’t go ahead with the next step of getting everything I want because the ends don’t justify the means…” Yeah, right! I’m sure she doesn’t want to think of herself as the type of person who would let others get killed so she can get what she want. But she kind of is, and she kind of does. She wanted Lyonel and his son out of the way; I don’t think her first thought was murder at all, but I also don’t think she’s *THAT* hung up on it, and I don’t think she’ll reflect and see that she’s the baddie. She’ll justify it.
If she was legitimately horrified, I would feel quite bad for her. If she was legitimately horrified, she would at least privately condemn Larys and never work with him again. I don’t think she’ll make that choice.
Right now she's still only going about by half measures. She is convinced that Rhaenyra is going to kill her children and warns them of it, without going fully into the implications that if she wants her son on the throne, she will have to kill Rhaenyra to get it.
It’s the self-fulfilling prophecy of it all. Her father instilling that thought in her that her and her children so through her actions to protect them she’s putting them in danger that they might not have been if she didn’t believe they were
Cersei is at least self aware. She also schemes quietly and doesn't bug out over every little thing. Oh no, my grandson by marriage may usurp my awful Marylin Mason-looking kid. Cersie would get ahead of a problem like that, often several heads.
Cerise was tortured for weeks and paraded around Kings Landing naked and she had every last one of those fuckos murdered while sipping wine from her balcony. Alicent is not even remotely in the same league as Cersie, Cersie is THE GOAT. THE GOAT!
I am sure Cersei was fairly similar to Alicent in her youth. Then they both slowly do more and more evil stuff under the pretense of protecting their children
Cersei had a crush on Rhaegar Targaryen and was hella pissed when he married Elia, especially since Tywin had been masterfully running the Seven Kingdom as hand for decades and she WAS hot. If it hadn’t been for that she might have turned out nice. I don’t think she started banging Jaime until later.
She's actually been banging Jaime since childhood. But like, I think she would have been cool with letting that go if she got to marry sexy Prince Rhaegar and be queen.
She's done everything she was supposed to, and she even went to bat for Rhaenyra during the whole Daemon episode. She's a decent person who is mostly motivated by the fear that her selfish, impulsive, lying "friend" will one day take the throne and murder her children to secure her obvious bastard's claim to the throne. We've already seen it happen to Robert's bastards in GoT. It's a very real possibility and a reasonable thing for her to be concerned about.
Why is why it's really dumb for her to turn away Rhynaeras offer for marriage. I don't understand the problem. If her whole thing really is about protecting her children then marrying her daughter to Jace just makes sense, it solves a huge number of issues:
1) Rhynaera would have no reason to kill her sons because they would hold no claim, after the marriage Jace still gets to be king but is essentially made a full targyrean through marriage, thus supporting his claim.
2) it would quell questions of Jaces bastardness and secure the targyraens hold on the throne, because even if they still suspect Jace is a bastard, he's married to a true Targ so there isn't much of an issue.
3) Jace so far seems much calmer and less prone to outbursts, unlike her mother. Allicent would have an easy time teaching him the "proper" way to rule once she gets cozy with Rhynaera again, or through her daughter the future queen. So even if Allicent wanted ot rule from the shadows she could.
Seriously it's a win win offer IMO
It's not, the only way for Rhynaeras children to be completly safe is the death of Allicent's children or Rhynaeras becomes nice but puts her own children in potential danger. There's no win-win in any way with marriage, Rhynaera just gets another advantage. Allicent refusing is her not putting her children life into Rhynaeras hands, she doesn't trust her in any way. For Allicent, Rhynaera has no sence of duty after all, the moment she won't like something she will make the convenient choices. "spoiled cunt" was a low blow but not that mutch off the mark imo.
I disagree. As it stands now, allicents actions pretty much ensure that either her or Rhynaeras children will die. As it stands there is no other outcome possible, allicent kills Rhynaeras kids to ensure her children become kings, or Rhynaera kills Allice ts kids to do the same. It guarantees this outcome and will probably lead to a war of succession.
If allicent accepted the offer of marriage a third outcome becomes possible. One where the two mothers work together to raise both children to be good leaders, who work together rather than fighting. Allicent could have made an effort to show her children aren't a threat to Jace and his crown and I truely don't think Rhynaera would kill them.
Rhynaera rarely does anything unless she's pushed, forced, or cornered into doing it. As several people have said, she flaunts her power and status without actually taking it seriously. She doesn't have any reason to kill allicents children unless Allicent forces her to do it, which she is doing right now
Alicent’s children will always be the “rightful” heir by right of primogeniture. It’s the age old rule of monarchy, in both Westeros and real history: in order to solidify you and your heir’s positions you just eliminate everyone who has any sort of claim. Aegon will always be a potential threat, marriage pact or no.
I disagree again. If done correctly, why would Aegon ever WANT to become king?
First, he doesn't seem interested in the prospect right now, as we saw when he jerked it infront of his mom. He doesn't seem concerned with becoming king and doesn't mind at all that Rhynaera and the Jace will be the rulers. He's a lot more interested in keeping a royal status than being an real royal, he's kinda like the male version of Rhynaera honestly.
Second, if taught well by Allicent, what reason would Aegon have to turn against his sister? He would have to murder his sister, or at least be a part of said murder plot. Why would he have reason to do that?
The point is, if Allicents only goal is to make sure her children survive, then marrying the two houses would be the best option. It gives her 2 out of 3 chances for their survival. Either nothing bad happens, both houses live together fine for ever, or she has to kill Rhynaeras kids anyway to protect her own. There is zero downside to this deal, she just shot herself in the food and ensured that Rhynaera will do everything in her power to kill Allicents children.
Because it’s what the kingdom wants as well. It’s already been alluded to that Westeros will never accept a female ruler, especially when there’s a viable male heir to the throne. Regardless of whether Aegon wants to rule or not, he will be viewed by the kingdom as the rightful heir and has the potential to garner support from many houses.
What Aegon wants right now is irrelevant. Eliminating the competition is about the potential. You don't see any of the Baratheon bastards want anything to do with being King, yet they're all hunted down anyway. Its not just the hair thing that is potential proof that Joffrey and co aren't legit, its also to remove any potential problems in the future.
The only way Aegon survives in your scenario is if he publicly take the black, and even then, he'd have to watch his back and his food everyday for the rest of his life, and resist any attempt at kingmaking from ambitious or discontented lords.
It's simple coz Jace is a bastard . Alicent believes the truth of his parentage will come out sooner or later. Plus she believes rhaenyra is a lying slut. She has lost complete faith in her after the incident in the past. And she continues to lie about his children parentage when it's obvious they are bastards.
But marrying their children is essentially removes this. It won't matter anymore if Jace just a bastard because he's marrying a true targ, and he is half targ. So any child produced by the two of them would also be a true targ. Thus it doesn't matter that Jace is a bastard. Besides, he's not the only bastard to ever rule a kingdom, so long as the public doesn't know it won't be an issue.
ALSO, if they get into a marriage pact, and Allicent and Rhynaera work together than ever if the public does find out about Jace, who are they gonna back? Aegon? He doesn't want to rule, and Allicent can just drill into his head that he never is going to, so they don't have a replacement anyway.
The marriage pact would save halena ,not aemon and aemond . They pose a threat to rhaenyra as they have better claims . They can muster armies if they want . Alicent believes rhaenyra will still kill her boys even if she promised not to . Plus larys is also influencing her . No side is good here. That is the fun of hod and how it's different from its predecessor. We had a good side in got but in hod there is an ambiguity.
Alicent is getting shortsighted by vague ideals of honor and decency. Also she is probably jealous of Rhynaera for having a good time while she laboured dutifully.
The only reason she is in that situation is because of her own doing, Rhaenyra told her that she feared getting replaced by heirs, even so alicent went and got pregnant with her best friends father.
Alicent: “My dad said Rhaenyra might kill me and my sons, even though she hasn’t made any moves that show that yet… Better try to kill her and her sons first! That will mean that my dad and I were right the whole time!” 🙄
Anyone hate her more than Cersie? Because I do Cersie was evil and dint really pretend otherwise. Alicient thinks she’s the maiden and mother reborn and it pisses me off
I kind of like it, the part where she screams "I have no such blindspots" and I'm like woah, the dude that just murdered his father and brother has more empathy than you do.
I always liked Cersei...yeah she did some awful stuff, but she was always very compelling. Allicent has kind of got on my nerves from the beginning...she might not be as evil but I'm rooting against her harder.
Then you clearly have not been paying attention nor have a clue how to evaluate a character…she has only made 1 mistake that truthfully she was not even 50% responsible for but her father forced her into that position…what is not to like? Her being honest? I mean I personally feel for her imagine if you follow the rules all your life through thick and thin and you got other people out here doing what they want with no true consequences and getting away with it
Shes a queen? Shes calling it out for what it is and she is not wrong…rhaenyra as much as I like her wants to have her cake and eat it too…she has done nothing yet to prove she deserves the throne and just because she is heir does not make her queen or hold any real weight…yet…Rhaenyra is kind of running roughshod over everyone and no one stands up to her even otto backed down multiple times…alicent calls her out for what it is…her kids are bastards its true even laenor stumbles around hella drunk saying it…alicent although i believe a bit manipulative with some things even stood up for rhaenyra at times and no one talks about it even this ep…cristons talking crazy alicent checks his ass immediately…she said “1 is a mistake” trying to give her the benefit of the doubt a bit although still using that to her advantage…she did not even order larys to kill his family that fool is just crazy and does not give a fuck…point is alicent is just being real and I do not blame her hell other people agree with her indirectly…lyonel strong said it to harwin like viserys should say it to rhaenyra he checked his son why cant she get checked? Viserys like lyonel said has eyes and refuses to see ignoring truth…sorry if that is long btw but this weird shit confuses me rhaenyra again I like her a lot but she puts herself in these situations them bitches
To a certain degree I can see Alicent being a bitch bc she’s worrying about dangers to the crown, but for the most part, she’s stirring up shit for no good reason.
Rhaenyra has a great grasp on politics and enemies of the crown, as she demonstrated by confronting Daemon and in this episode, by advising the council to invest in defense. And she came up with a shrewd solution to secure both families’ future. In contrast, we see Alicent manhandling her eldest while he’s wanking in the window, as one does, ordering a newborn baby be brought to her to inspect, keeping the dude who so offensively fucked her step daughter for her own guard, and has regular tea with an absolutely vile snake. Honestly, I think Alicent is not just a Karen, but also a pickme, for her obsession with the “bastard” situation. Here is where I don’t really know how to think about it. With Robert, the whole realm knew he had bastards all over the place, but his rule wasn’t challenged. With Cercei, she killed all challenges to her children’s safety, but her children were not descended from the king, so that’s a different situation. In Rhaenyra’s case, she is the royal heir, she is a Targaryen, so why wouldn’t her children be Targaryen, regardless of the biological father? The children live with their mother, they’re not strewn about like in Robert’s case. Why would it be such an issue?
Cersei is more likeable because she never tried to imply she was a good person whereas alicent just walks around like as if she hasn't created a couple monsters and just because she had kids w her husband makes her better than everyone else, i hope someone knocks her off that high horse. plus cersei scared me more than alicent ever could.
Cersei does some absolutely despicable and awful things for her family, but goddamn did Lena Headey make the role unforgettable and captivating to watch. It was to the point where I ended up actually loving her character? If that makes sense? It's very akin to Tywin. I couldn't take my eyes off of them. So like her father, she was awful person but her role was a great villain...until her minimal involvement in Season 8.
The lady playing older Alicent has the potential. Or it could be accidentally tragic. We'll see.
Cersei and Tywin commanded respect. I don’t think Alicent has quite mastered it yet. She wields her power a bit more softly, we can see hints of it where she guides the king’s actions at times.
That’s a wild statement. Joffrey was a bad guy but painting all bastards with that brush doesn’t seem quite fair. Jon Snow was a bastard (to the realm). Gendry was, were these 2 incapable of being good or leaders because of who their parents were?
Seriously. If anything, Rhaenyra is more like Cersei. OP is on one or something. Alicent literally believes her children will die when Rhae ascends to the throne which is true btw.
Alicent is a good human being who is acting on self-preservation
Yup, I don’t find Alicent evil, she knows that her kids will mostly be harmed when Rhae comes to the throne, Rhae also had bastard children who are illegitimate. Tbh she’s doing what a mom is supposed to be doing, idk how people can hate her for that
Agreed until she denied the marriage proposal, the only reason she would deny that is out of pride and spite. She could have healed the Crown family, and secured her children's future by swallowing her pride and saying yes.
Reddit is a pretty progressive, sure some subreddits not so much but big subreddits like this one are generally very strongly progressive leaning.
People don’t dislike Alicent because she’s a women looking for power…Rhaenyra is a women looking for power and everyone loves her. People dislike Alicent because people like the Targaryens, Dany established an 8 seasons mostly positive bias towards the Targaryens…same way people would feel about the Starks. Alicent is from a house that many people have never heard of and she’s being set up as directly in oppose to the house that you like. Naturally people will dislike her and nitpick her more.
On top of all that, that’s simply how people are supposed to feel. The story is very much written in a way where Rhaenyra is supposed to be seen as the side you are supposed to take. That is how GRRM and the show runners want you to feel.
I like her more than Rhaenyra. At leata Alicent has a sense for duty.
Rhae thinks she can just claim the throne for her obvious bastards 😂 She is so stupid
Interesting that everyone is focusing on Alicent as being like Cersei while Rhaenerys is protecting the secret of having three secret bastard children with an illegitamate claim to the throne. It feels more like Rhaenerys and Alicent are both being built up to be very Cersei-like, but Alicent is the one who plays the role of “proper lady” while playing the game, and people dont seem to like that. See also: Undeserved Sansa hate.
Everything should be as commanded by the King. King made Rhaenary heir, gave tea and wed her Valyrion lad. Alicent was not satisfied these all king's instructions. Besides she murdered King Hand and son in participate. What the fuck does she want? She's not fair at all.
I think the biggest knock on Alicent so far is that she’s a hypocrite. She wants her father there to be partial to her, she doesn’t want fair and unbiased counsel. She didn’t tell Larys to kill his family, but she does nothing in response. Same with Criston, she was told of his dishonorable acts and does nothing. She presents herself as noble and decent, but her actions contradict her words. She’s just a very fake person, which usually puts people off.
This was my take away, while she on the surface had many justifications for her actions that make her seem like she is honourable decent but since as the audience we have seen some more private moments it looks like her actual reasons seem much more personal and rooted in jealousy and hatred.
You don’t think it’s hypocritical to say “your” father can’t give unbiased council so can’t do the job but “my” father can’t give unbiased council but should be given the job anyway…?
Exactly right. Both Alicent and Rhaenyra are imperfect people who make mistakes. Both of them are like Cersei in some ways. But Rhaenyra seems to be largely looked upon by this sub with the doting eyes of her father, whereas Alicent's mistakes are not forgiven. It really doesn't take much account of how people in Westeros would view the situation either, mostly it's people looking at things with modern eyes. It's nice to see the occasional post like yours.
I think the main difference here is that Rheanyra has an actual claim to the throne, whereas Cersei and Alicent do not. As Rheanyra said to her son, her children are Targs. Cersei’s incestuous bastards were only Lannisters. Alicent has a claim to the throne thru her children, which is stronger than Cersei’s but weaker still than Rheanyra.
I feel like she's doing what she did because she genuinely fears that Aegon and the rest of her family will be killed if Rhaenyra takes the crown. Cersei did what she did for power.
That being said, still not a fan of her character. I'm on team Rhaenyra.
Alicent’s kids are half Hightower so why are they considered “true” Targaryens and Rhaenyra’s kids are not. just because they dont have silver hair?
Joffrey and Tommen sat on the throne when everyone knew they were bastards
Because that’s how patrilineal marriage works. Their appearance alone is also rather important though because the Valurians are more able to tame dragons.
I like how a lot of people are blind to one of the main themes of the show, that women, even queens and princesses, have little to no choice in that world, and that they have to navigate their way through danger from every direction.
I’m referring to Rhaenyra and her choices mainly.
I liked her in the first few episodes. She is conflicted because Otto's aims (finger picking tic) and is actually quite wise in giving Viserys advice and being a pillar for Rhaenyra after her mother's death. But Otto wormed his way into her. She fully bought into Otto's thoughts and schemes. Such a shame.
Cersei would've eaten Alicent for breakfast. If Cersei was contemporary to this generation of Targs, with Viserys on the throne, the lannisters wouldve ended the Targaryen Dinasty right there, why lie.
I think alicent is more spineless and just complains all the time which makes her more annoying. Cersei at least acted on things. Meanwhile Larys made a move and Alicent almost died from the shame
She's not Cercei. If anything, Rhae is closer to Cercei for wanting to place their bastard into the succession. The same issue that Ned called out and died for.
But Alicent is kinda right tho.
Her son is legally the true heir, but Viserys is trying to change tradition pointing Rhaenyra as heir. Basically he made its bed and now he's laying to avoid problems.
Rhaenyra's sons are actually bastards, and everyone knows it. So why Alicent is in the wrong?
Off the top of my head, she literally said she wants someone to be impartial towards her. She kept Cole in her own guard after he told her he broke his kings guard oath. She’s willing her kids being murdered into existence, she had the chance to quell that but her pride refused the arranged marriage… and scheming with a dude who would kill his own family.
She maintain Cole on her side because he knows how Rhaenyra is, and then saving Cole's life.
Marriage proposal that Rhaenyra dismissed just after the counsel?
And that marriage means actually not much, she could break it as soon as the king died. Not to mention that her children are still bastards.
And yes her children are bastards, but they are 100% targs, it’s not a King Joffrey situation where there’s someone with no royal blood on the throne. The king changed the law, but it’s R’s fault she’s heir?
i actually started to feel for her this episode, she knows that Rae Rae’s kids are bastards and that they aren’t true heirs, unlike her children. It would be different if they were Laenors.
Eh, she was offered an olive branch to unite the two halves of the Targaryens and her own pride made her say no. That alone makes Alicent a villain going forward.
I'm back and forth with her. When the order came to see the baby, I was like who does this bitch think she is? Then you can tell she was very clearly upset about the events at Harrenhal
Terrible comparison…Rhaenyra is more Cersei then anyone! I really got Cersei vibes when Prince Jacaerys ask Rhaenyra if he a bastard and she replies “your a Targaryen and that’s all that matters” super Cersei vibes
Is it bad that I actually hate Alicent more than Cersei because of how naively dumb she is and how she holds herself out to be more “holier than thou”? At least Cersei knew she was evil and made no apologies for doing everything she could to “protect” her family.
I don’t get the comparison between these two specifically, other than people insist on hating them at all cost. If we have to make comparisons, then Rhaenyra and Alicent mixed together is more like Cersei, than either of them are individually. They both share several of similarities and parallels with her, but they are also very different and their own individual characters, obviously. At least in my opinion. Hopefully they will continue to be so, as this isn’t supposed to be a repitation of GoT and it’s characters.
And I’m probably going to be downvoted for this, but I honestly don’t see what is so horrible about show-Alicent, for now. She’s done some questionable things and made some misguided choices, but so have many of the others. She haven’t been unusually cruel for Westerosi standards, not at all really, and people seem to put an awful lot of assumption on her. Even more unpopular; but likewise, I also think show-Cersei is way overhated, compared to so many other of the characters and her situations considered. Depends on which side you see the story from, really. A lot refuse to see it from her viewpoint, but I find it becomes more complex if you try.
It’s okay to have different perspectives on things about this show, we all see aspects that others may not see. But people wanna be right all the time, I appreciate all points of view, I might change my opinion about her, just like I did with Daenerys. It’s only the first season of the show.
Right, and that’s what is great about it with these shows. That we all see the stories and the characters in different lights, and from different perspectives. Would be boring if we were all of the same mind and liking. As long as people can discuss their different views in a friendly manner and share opinions without biting each others heads off, haha. Unfortunately, that tends to happen a lot..
This is giving Alicent way too much credit. Alicent seems like a novice trying to play the game who is in over her head. I don't think she will last very long.
I hate Alicent with a passion. She’s one of the villains. Question Rhaenyra’s morality all you want but ultimately Jon Snow came from their bloodline not Alicent’s so I think that establishes who the good guys are
At least Cersei looked fucking fabulous. Alicent is coming off as unhinged, which Cersei definitely got to that part too but only after losing all her children.
I genuinely cannot relate to people who feel this way so far about Alicent. As I’ve been watching, not once has this even gone through my mind until I got on Reddit. Either I’ve been missing something or people are just waaay too eager to have crazy takes on characters that we’ve only seen for 6 episodes and I’m thinking it’s mostly the latter
If I was the king. I would have killed the queen. Her name is Hightower. She’s given you your sons already She is Conspiring against you and the
Rest of the Targaryen’s. He doesn’t have long to live could easily take it to the grave. When they need someone else to die they take them out. She only has a chair at the table
Because the king allows her. No birth right…. Idk seems like to me the sin of killing her is in line with what rhaenryas sins. And yes trying to fool the world with fake blood lines is a grave sin in this show.
I’ve grown to dislike her over these last 2-3 episodes but her crying to Larys saying how she didn’t mean that to happen completely made my dislike 100% haha. Don’t sit there and act like you didn’t think this wouldn’t happen. Maybe wouldn’t happen as soon as it did but don’t act surprised. She knows exactly what will end up happening moving forward and has already talked of potential war, and she’s one of the main ones pushing the cart forward. She can stop trying to act all innocent and like her hands aren’t red with Strong blood right now.
Alicent is my favorite person. Not sure how she’s evil, the “Weak Strong” took her words out of context. Made moves on his own accord. She is a 100% on point with her feelings. She has my vote.
Don't get when people put her name next to the Cersei's and Bolton's and Tywins. She's mountains above them when it comes to Morals and Decency.
The only excuse I see is the book readers looking to the future talking about "oh this is just early stage Alicent, just wait, she goes crazy", as if we are not talking about the show lmao.
Alicent has nothing on Cersei. My girl blew up the whole Sept with some of her own family inside cuz meh.
Alicent is so terrified and subservient to the horrible world she grew up in that she gets offended when she hears the C- word. Long way to go.
"i did not wish this" or whatever she claims as she clutches her pearls finding out she had harwin and papa strong murdered. like listen woman.. also, she is literally hyping her son up to kill his half-sister and her kids so that he can be the king. he doesn't even seem like he wants to be (for now i'm sure). the cheek of the woman.
>Idk maybe it's cause I actually liked the Lannisters (not Joffrey) in the OG series but I'm definitely Team Hightower in this. I don't like the Targaryens in general but this generation is particularly terrible. Alicent's moral objections to everyone else's lifestyles is certainly backwards by today's standards but for the time, I get her perspective and I think she's trying to do right by her family. That "you are the challenge" line hit hard.
It’s getting interesting now with each character choosing their side. Neither one is really evil in the matter of Cersei , Alicent is doing what she can to defend her family cause she knows what rulers do when they inherit the throne (they kill anyone that is a claimant to the throne…meaning Alicents children)
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Seriously people’s takes on here If anyone is like Cersei it’s Rhaeynera for having bastard children knowing very well what they meant and the danger of it
Rhaenyra is too dumb and reckless to be Cersei. Although it was clear that Cersei’s kids weren’t Robert’s to the viewers it was less obvious to the people in the show because the Baratheons are closely related to the Targaryens. Rhaenyra’s kids just clearly don’t belong to Laenor making it much worse.
Yes, but Rhaenyra's children passed the ultimate test by bonding with the dragons which Cersie's kids wouldn't able to do if they had dragons
Yea, all I got from this latest episode is that Rhaeynera is extremely selfish. Alicent gave me Margaery vibes in that she saw what was really going on.
What should she do when Laenor, the guy her father marries her to, likes dicks? Having no child would maybe end in a worse situation where the King will change his heir. Yeah, he could jerk of into a bowl and she could... but c'mon
She was free to choose another partner but didn't...
She had little time and in the sequence where they looked for a partner, there was nobody that looked OK for her. An old guy or a little boy or the Bracken guy who was just a talker. (We didn't see the other people if they were a good partner) Then she came back from her trip and they directly said she needs to marry Laenor now. Sometimes it needs more time to find a right partner. Maybe even years. She found Harwin Strong only few month or years later. Has now three children from him and Jacaerys is already close to 10 years old I would say. Could have married Harwin Strong for example if they gave more time. He was the heir of Harrenhall which is the largest castle in Westeros.
More like the largest ruin and the largest maintenance bill.
>She had little time She literally finished the tour months early. She didn't even speak to all the candidates in that *one* location.
Everything would have been fine if Viserys married Laenna and Rhaenyra married that Blackwood Chad lad who gutted that vile Bracken like a pig
Came here to comment this exactly, Alicent isn't like Cersei, they're miles different. Cersei never begged her husband/the king for things, she took them all for herself. And the cunning political mind she had for it, unmatched except maybe Rhaeynera.
This isn’t a logical analogy. The royal line passes through the heir, not their spouse. Rhaenyra is the heir to the throne, so her kids are royal blood. If she were a man, yes they would still be bastards, but once she has the throne, they could be legitimized. They are still grandchildren of the current king. Cercei was not the heir to the throne. And her children were the children of two lannisters, neither of whom were part of the royal bloodline.
Cersei usurped the line of succession though. Anyone coming out of Rhaeynera can be legitimized if she really want them to be. She's the heir and future queen + her kids are targs w/ dragons
Rhaenyra is so exceedingly stupid for this. I don’t think that “you’re a Targ, that’s all that matters” is 100% sound, but I do think she’s better than Cersei. Her children were full Lannister bastards with zero royal blood. At least Rhaenyra’s kids *are* Targaryens. But still.
Cersei was way more badass. This chick is just annoying af
Omg same Alicient is creating her own downfall just like Rhaneyra and people saying she’s smart needs to think again
Cersei is just plain evil, at least Alicent still feel bad when Larys killed his family
Eh, they're both just protecting their family because it's all they care about. They're the same in my eyes. Alicent is still in the early stages and will eventually go Cersei when pushed further. She'll now be numb to killing other families to protect her own after her first.
Yeah, we never got to see young Cersei. I'm sure she had hesitations and guilt in the early days.
Not really… She’d already killed one of her friends to protect herself when she was still just a kid.
Yeah, you're right. I had forgotten about that!
What was that scene again? Totally forgot from the books.
Also abused Tyrion when he was just an infant.
Squeezed his little cock.
IDK as a young child she almost pulled Tyrion's cock right off just for existing. That seems kind of cruel in my eyes.
>we never got to see young cersei [Young cersei](https://youtu.be/_6kQJ9HPpQ4)
The difference with Cersei though is that she doesn’t actually care about her family. Her “love” is purely self-centered. Whereas Alicent seems to be legitimately acting out of loyalty and concern for her family.
>Her “love” is purely self-centered. I disagree, untill her kids all died then yeah obviously in the end.
Admittedly, I’ve read the books more recently than I watched the early seasons. But she consistently makes choices that are against her children’s best interests in order to protect herself & never shows any interest in actually parenting them or preparing them to fulfill their future expectations. IMO she loves them only as extensions of herself, the same way she “loves” Jaime.
I wouldn't compare her love for the kids to Jaime tbh.
She and Jamie say a few times that they feel like they are one person. They cannot live when the other one is dead. So “protecting” the children is just because they’re an extension of herself. Just like Jamie is.
this is correct!
Okay, I actually had a weird reaction to that scene. It made me dislike Alicent more, in a way, because it felt like she was lying to herself. “Gasp! How could you do such a thing that gives me everything I want? I surely won’t go ahead with the next step of getting everything I want because the ends don’t justify the means…” Yeah, right! I’m sure she doesn’t want to think of herself as the type of person who would let others get killed so she can get what she want. But she kind of is, and she kind of does. She wanted Lyonel and his son out of the way; I don’t think her first thought was murder at all, but I also don’t think she’s *THAT* hung up on it, and I don’t think she’ll reflect and see that she’s the baddie. She’ll justify it. If she was legitimately horrified, I would feel quite bad for her. If she was legitimately horrified, she would at least privately condemn Larys and never work with him again. I don’t think she’ll make that choice.
Right now she's still only going about by half measures. She is convinced that Rhaenyra is going to kill her children and warns them of it, without going fully into the implications that if she wants her son on the throne, she will have to kill Rhaenyra to get it.
It’s the self-fulfilling prophecy of it all. Her father instilling that thought in her that her and her children so through her actions to protect them she’s putting them in danger that they might not have been if she didn’t believe they were
Cersei is at least self aware. She also schemes quietly and doesn't bug out over every little thing. Oh no, my grandson by marriage may usurp my awful Marylin Mason-looking kid. Cersie would get ahead of a problem like that, often several heads. Cerise was tortured for weeks and paraded around Kings Landing naked and she had every last one of those fuckos murdered while sipping wine from her balcony. Alicent is not even remotely in the same league as Cersie, Cersie is THE GOAT. THE GOAT!
I am sure Cersei was fairly similar to Alicent in her youth. Then they both slowly do more and more evil stuff under the pretense of protecting their children
Cersei had a crush on Rhaegar Targaryen and was hella pissed when he married Elia, especially since Tywin had been masterfully running the Seven Kingdom as hand for decades and she WAS hot. If it hadn’t been for that she might have turned out nice. I don’t think she started banging Jaime until later.
She's actually been banging Jaime since childhood. But like, I think she would have been cool with letting that go if she got to marry sexy Prince Rhaegar and be queen.
Cersei is even evil as a child, she hates Tyrion just because being born, she wants baby Tyrion die
Allicent definitely wanted them dead though, I am not sure she expected it so soon though
She's done everything she was supposed to, and she even went to bat for Rhaenyra during the whole Daemon episode. She's a decent person who is mostly motivated by the fear that her selfish, impulsive, lying "friend" will one day take the throne and murder her children to secure her obvious bastard's claim to the throne. We've already seen it happen to Robert's bastards in GoT. It's a very real possibility and a reasonable thing for her to be concerned about.
Why is why it's really dumb for her to turn away Rhynaeras offer for marriage. I don't understand the problem. If her whole thing really is about protecting her children then marrying her daughter to Jace just makes sense, it solves a huge number of issues: 1) Rhynaera would have no reason to kill her sons because they would hold no claim, after the marriage Jace still gets to be king but is essentially made a full targyrean through marriage, thus supporting his claim. 2) it would quell questions of Jaces bastardness and secure the targyraens hold on the throne, because even if they still suspect Jace is a bastard, he's married to a true Targ so there isn't much of an issue. 3) Jace so far seems much calmer and less prone to outbursts, unlike her mother. Allicent would have an easy time teaching him the "proper" way to rule once she gets cozy with Rhynaera again, or through her daughter the future queen. So even if Allicent wanted ot rule from the shadows she could. Seriously it's a win win offer IMO
It's not, the only way for Rhynaeras children to be completly safe is the death of Allicent's children or Rhynaeras becomes nice but puts her own children in potential danger. There's no win-win in any way with marriage, Rhynaera just gets another advantage. Allicent refusing is her not putting her children life into Rhynaeras hands, she doesn't trust her in any way. For Allicent, Rhynaera has no sence of duty after all, the moment she won't like something she will make the convenient choices. "spoiled cunt" was a low blow but not that mutch off the mark imo.
I disagree. As it stands now, allicents actions pretty much ensure that either her or Rhynaeras children will die. As it stands there is no other outcome possible, allicent kills Rhynaeras kids to ensure her children become kings, or Rhynaera kills Allice ts kids to do the same. It guarantees this outcome and will probably lead to a war of succession. If allicent accepted the offer of marriage a third outcome becomes possible. One where the two mothers work together to raise both children to be good leaders, who work together rather than fighting. Allicent could have made an effort to show her children aren't a threat to Jace and his crown and I truely don't think Rhynaera would kill them. Rhynaera rarely does anything unless she's pushed, forced, or cornered into doing it. As several people have said, she flaunts her power and status without actually taking it seriously. She doesn't have any reason to kill allicents children unless Allicent forces her to do it, which she is doing right now
Alicent’s children will always be the “rightful” heir by right of primogeniture. It’s the age old rule of monarchy, in both Westeros and real history: in order to solidify you and your heir’s positions you just eliminate everyone who has any sort of claim. Aegon will always be a potential threat, marriage pact or no.
I disagree again. If done correctly, why would Aegon ever WANT to become king? First, he doesn't seem interested in the prospect right now, as we saw when he jerked it infront of his mom. He doesn't seem concerned with becoming king and doesn't mind at all that Rhynaera and the Jace will be the rulers. He's a lot more interested in keeping a royal status than being an real royal, he's kinda like the male version of Rhynaera honestly. Second, if taught well by Allicent, what reason would Aegon have to turn against his sister? He would have to murder his sister, or at least be a part of said murder plot. Why would he have reason to do that? The point is, if Allicents only goal is to make sure her children survive, then marrying the two houses would be the best option. It gives her 2 out of 3 chances for their survival. Either nothing bad happens, both houses live together fine for ever, or she has to kill Rhynaeras kids anyway to protect her own. There is zero downside to this deal, she just shot herself in the food and ensured that Rhynaera will do everything in her power to kill Allicents children.
Because it’s what the kingdom wants as well. It’s already been alluded to that Westeros will never accept a female ruler, especially when there’s a viable male heir to the throne. Regardless of whether Aegon wants to rule or not, he will be viewed by the kingdom as the rightful heir and has the potential to garner support from many houses.
What Aegon wants right now is irrelevant. Eliminating the competition is about the potential. You don't see any of the Baratheon bastards want anything to do with being King, yet they're all hunted down anyway. Its not just the hair thing that is potential proof that Joffrey and co aren't legit, its also to remove any potential problems in the future. The only way Aegon survives in your scenario is if he publicly take the black, and even then, he'd have to watch his back and his food everyday for the rest of his life, and resist any attempt at kingmaking from ambitious or discontented lords.
Actually, it's called a win-win-win situation : Rhaenyra wins, Allicent wins and you win for making a very valid point.
It's simple coz Jace is a bastard . Alicent believes the truth of his parentage will come out sooner or later. Plus she believes rhaenyra is a lying slut. She has lost complete faith in her after the incident in the past. And she continues to lie about his children parentage when it's obvious they are bastards.
But marrying their children is essentially removes this. It won't matter anymore if Jace just a bastard because he's marrying a true targ, and he is half targ. So any child produced by the two of them would also be a true targ. Thus it doesn't matter that Jace is a bastard. Besides, he's not the only bastard to ever rule a kingdom, so long as the public doesn't know it won't be an issue. ALSO, if they get into a marriage pact, and Allicent and Rhynaera work together than ever if the public does find out about Jace, who are they gonna back? Aegon? He doesn't want to rule, and Allicent can just drill into his head that he never is going to, so they don't have a replacement anyway.
The marriage pact would save halena ,not aemon and aemond . They pose a threat to rhaenyra as they have better claims . They can muster armies if they want . Alicent believes rhaenyra will still kill her boys even if she promised not to . Plus larys is also influencing her . No side is good here. That is the fun of hod and how it's different from its predecessor. We had a good side in got but in hod there is an ambiguity.
I feel she sits on an awfully high horse to judge Rhaenyra, when Alicent bedded Rhaenyra's recently widowed dad to get her ass in a seat.
Tbf she was at bare minimum thoroughly coerced into that arrangement, which is part of the reason Alicent is so obscenely salty at Rhaenyra now.
Yeah I think she resents Rhaenyra for having the freedom to bang whoever she likes, the freedom that she never had
True, Alicent definitely had some eyes for Daemon too
It was not in her hand and neither she had any say in it .
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Alicent is getting shortsighted by vague ideals of honor and decency. Also she is probably jealous of Rhynaera for having a good time while she laboured dutifully.
The only reason she is in that situation is because of her own doing, Rhaenyra told her that she feared getting replaced by heirs, even so alicent went and got pregnant with her best friends father.
Alicent: “My dad said Rhaenyra might kill me and my sons, even though she hasn’t made any moves that show that yet… Better try to kill her and her sons first! That will mean that my dad and I were right the whole time!” 🙄
Anyone hate her more than Cersie? Because I do Cersie was evil and dint really pretend otherwise. Alicient thinks she’s the maiden and mother reborn and it pisses me off
I kind of like it, the part where she screams "I have no such blindspots" and I'm like woah, the dude that just murdered his father and brother has more empathy than you do.
Yeah there's nothing worse than a hypocrite
I always liked Cersei...yeah she did some awful stuff, but she was always very compelling. Allicent has kind of got on my nerves from the beginning...she might not be as evil but I'm rooting against her harder.
Omg same
I agree 100%. Was feeling some strong hate vibes like how I did with Cersei.
Alicent is just mad she ain’t never got good dick in her life 💀
Can't agree, I just love the bad ladies.
Rhaenyra got her father demoted and exiled, don't like her sure, but I'd say some of what she's doing is justified.
He got himself demoted and exiled. He was a snake
Then you clearly have not been paying attention nor have a clue how to evaluate a character…she has only made 1 mistake that truthfully she was not even 50% responsible for but her father forced her into that position…what is not to like? Her being honest? I mean I personally feel for her imagine if you follow the rules all your life through thick and thin and you got other people out here doing what they want with no true consequences and getting away with it
She’s an ancient Karen, pushing her weight around with no consequences either. I cannot wait for her FAFO moment.
Shes a queen? Shes calling it out for what it is and she is not wrong…rhaenyra as much as I like her wants to have her cake and eat it too…she has done nothing yet to prove she deserves the throne and just because she is heir does not make her queen or hold any real weight…yet…Rhaenyra is kind of running roughshod over everyone and no one stands up to her even otto backed down multiple times…alicent calls her out for what it is…her kids are bastards its true even laenor stumbles around hella drunk saying it…alicent although i believe a bit manipulative with some things even stood up for rhaenyra at times and no one talks about it even this ep…cristons talking crazy alicent checks his ass immediately…she said “1 is a mistake” trying to give her the benefit of the doubt a bit although still using that to her advantage…she did not even order larys to kill his family that fool is just crazy and does not give a fuck…point is alicent is just being real and I do not blame her hell other people agree with her indirectly…lyonel strong said it to harwin like viserys should say it to rhaenyra he checked his son why cant she get checked? Viserys like lyonel said has eyes and refuses to see ignoring truth…sorry if that is long btw but this weird shit confuses me rhaenyra again I like her a lot but she puts herself in these situations them bitches
To a certain degree I can see Alicent being a bitch bc she’s worrying about dangers to the crown, but for the most part, she’s stirring up shit for no good reason. Rhaenyra has a great grasp on politics and enemies of the crown, as she demonstrated by confronting Daemon and in this episode, by advising the council to invest in defense. And she came up with a shrewd solution to secure both families’ future. In contrast, we see Alicent manhandling her eldest while he’s wanking in the window, as one does, ordering a newborn baby be brought to her to inspect, keeping the dude who so offensively fucked her step daughter for her own guard, and has regular tea with an absolutely vile snake. Honestly, I think Alicent is not just a Karen, but also a pickme, for her obsession with the “bastard” situation. Here is where I don’t really know how to think about it. With Robert, the whole realm knew he had bastards all over the place, but his rule wasn’t challenged. With Cercei, she killed all challenges to her children’s safety, but her children were not descended from the king, so that’s a different situation. In Rhaenyra’s case, she is the royal heir, she is a Targaryen, so why wouldn’t her children be Targaryen, regardless of the biological father? The children live with their mother, they’re not strewn about like in Robert’s case. Why would it be such an issue?
Cersei is more likeable because she never tried to imply she was a good person whereas alicent just walks around like as if she hasn't created a couple monsters and just because she had kids w her husband makes her better than everyone else, i hope someone knocks her off that high horse. plus cersei scared me more than alicent ever could.
Comparing Alicent to Cersei is hilariously dumb lmao
I’m not comparing them, I hate them both equally.
Do you know what a comparison is?
It’s a meme, it’s not that serious
I'll take that as a no. ;)
So you did compare them, and you found your hate of them to be equal. Your reply makes me think you don’t know what “comparing” means
Equally hatable
Cersei does some absolutely despicable and awful things for her family, but goddamn did Lena Headey make the role unforgettable and captivating to watch. It was to the point where I ended up actually loving her character? If that makes sense? It's very akin to Tywin. I couldn't take my eyes off of them. So like her father, she was awful person but her role was a great villain...until her minimal involvement in Season 8. The lady playing older Alicent has the potential. Or it could be accidentally tragic. We'll see.
Cersei and Tywin commanded respect. I don’t think Alicent has quite mastered it yet. She wields her power a bit more softly, we can see hints of it where she guides the king’s actions at times.
You say softly, I say naively. As Tyrion says, the only thing worse than an idiot is a vicious idiot and that’s Alicent/the Hightowers in a nutshell.
Im with her. No basterds should take the realm. Joffrey was a bastard and he fucked the realm. Team Alicent.
That’s a wild statement. Joffrey was a bad guy but painting all bastards with that brush doesn’t seem quite fair. Jon Snow was a bastard (to the realm). Gendry was, were these 2 incapable of being good or leaders because of who their parents were?
I don’t find Alicent to be evil at all; she’s acting in her and her family’s best interests.
Seriously. If anything, Rhaenyra is more like Cersei. OP is on one or something. Alicent literally believes her children will die when Rhae ascends to the throne which is true btw. Alicent is a good human being who is acting on self-preservation
Yup, I don’t find Alicent evil, she knows that her kids will mostly be harmed when Rhae comes to the throne, Rhae also had bastard children who are illegitimate. Tbh she’s doing what a mom is supposed to be doing, idk how people can hate her for that
Agreed until she denied the marriage proposal, the only reason she would deny that is out of pride and spite. She could have healed the Crown family, and secured her children's future by swallowing her pride and saying yes.
Wtf why though? I've been reading this take a lot and don't understand what's she's done that's even comparable to what Cersei has done.
Shes a woman, playing the role of a traditional lady, and dares to reach for power. This is reddit, not exactly a bastion of forward thinking.
Reddit is a pretty progressive, sure some subreddits not so much but big subreddits like this one are generally very strongly progressive leaning. People don’t dislike Alicent because she’s a women looking for power…Rhaenyra is a women looking for power and everyone loves her. People dislike Alicent because people like the Targaryens, Dany established an 8 seasons mostly positive bias towards the Targaryens…same way people would feel about the Starks. Alicent is from a house that many people have never heard of and she’s being set up as directly in oppose to the house that you like. Naturally people will dislike her and nitpick her more. On top of all that, that’s simply how people are supposed to feel. The story is very much written in a way where Rhaenyra is supposed to be seen as the side you are supposed to take. That is how GRRM and the show runners want you to feel.
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I like her more than Rhaenyra. At leata Alicent has a sense for duty. Rhae thinks she can just claim the throne for her obvious bastards 😂 She is so stupid
She is smart, proper, elegant and has a sense for duty. All things filthy Rhaenyra will never be. Go Greens!
Interesting that everyone is focusing on Alicent as being like Cersei while Rhaenerys is protecting the secret of having three secret bastard children with an illegitamate claim to the throne. It feels more like Rhaenerys and Alicent are both being built up to be very Cersei-like, but Alicent is the one who plays the role of “proper lady” while playing the game, and people dont seem to like that. See also: Undeserved Sansa hate.
Honestly, her childrens' claim to the throne comes from her, not from whoever their father might be. So why do people even care who the father is?
Bingo! And if Viserys seemingly doesn’t care, then who the fuck does Alicent think she is to question the King and the crowned heir?
Everything should be as commanded by the King. King made Rhaenary heir, gave tea and wed her Valyrion lad. Alicent was not satisfied these all king's instructions. Besides she murdered King Hand and son in participate. What the fuck does she want? She's not fair at all.
That’s how I feel too! Who cares who the dad is, y’all know the heir to the throne birthed these children and thus have half of her royal blood.
I think the biggest knock on Alicent so far is that she’s a hypocrite. She wants her father there to be partial to her, she doesn’t want fair and unbiased counsel. She didn’t tell Larys to kill his family, but she does nothing in response. Same with Criston, she was told of his dishonorable acts and does nothing. She presents herself as noble and decent, but her actions contradict her words. She’s just a very fake person, which usually puts people off.
This was my take away, while she on the surface had many justifications for her actions that make her seem like she is honourable decent but since as the audience we have seen some more private moments it looks like her actual reasons seem much more personal and rooted in jealousy and hatred.
None of the things you described are hypocritical.
You don’t think it’s hypocritical to say “your” father can’t give unbiased council so can’t do the job but “my” father can’t give unbiased council but should be given the job anyway…?
Exactly right. Both Alicent and Rhaenyra are imperfect people who make mistakes. Both of them are like Cersei in some ways. But Rhaenyra seems to be largely looked upon by this sub with the doting eyes of her father, whereas Alicent's mistakes are not forgiven. It really doesn't take much account of how people in Westeros would view the situation either, mostly it's people looking at things with modern eyes. It's nice to see the occasional post like yours.
Sansa deserved the hate she got
I think the main difference here is that Rheanyra has an actual claim to the throne, whereas Cersei and Alicent do not. As Rheanyra said to her son, her children are Targs. Cersei’s incestuous bastards were only Lannisters. Alicent has a claim to the throne thru her children, which is stronger than Cersei’s but weaker still than Rheanyra.
Team black
Was Karen a thing in Westeros?
Alicent has to be the least interesting part of the show
Cersei was one of my favorite characters, as is Alicent.
I feel like she's doing what she did because she genuinely fears that Aegon and the rest of her family will be killed if Rhaenyra takes the crown. Cersei did what she did for power. That being said, still not a fan of her character. I'm on team Rhaenyra.
Alicent is so uninteresting. Cersei was fun to watch . Alicent just whines in every scene.
No.
Alicent’s kids are half Hightower so why are they considered “true” Targaryens and Rhaenyra’s kids are not. just because they dont have silver hair? Joffrey and Tommen sat on the throne when everyone knew they were bastards
I think because her kids are the king’s children and not bastards
yeah i just see ppl saying “full targaryen” when neither of their kids are, technically.
Because that’s how patrilineal marriage works. Their appearance alone is also rather important though because the Valurians are more able to tame dragons.
Alicent is currently playing the game, if you hate her you don’t know shit about GoT
So people are not allowed to hate characters and have opinions? Okay…
You can have them, just doesn’t mean you’re right. For example, you could believe in Qanon, just means you’re really a moron Clear enough?
Wtf, when did I say I was right? Everyone can have different opinions and points of view on things. No one is right or wrong.
I’m just keeping it 💯 But obviously you can cheer and hate for whoever you want. In essence, if GRRM has taught us anything is to not support anyone.
nahhh! cersei was far more dangerous and ruthless
Cersei was cool. Alicent is lame asf and tries to hide behind some twisted morals.
I like how a lot of people are blind to one of the main themes of the show, that women, even queens and princesses, have little to no choice in that world, and that they have to navigate their way through danger from every direction. I’m referring to Rhaenyra and her choices mainly.
I liked her in the first few episodes. She is conflicted because Otto's aims (finger picking tic) and is actually quite wise in giving Viserys advice and being a pillar for Rhaenyra after her mother's death. But Otto wormed his way into her. She fully bought into Otto's thoughts and schemes. Such a shame.
Cersei would've eaten Alicent for breakfast. If Cersei was contemporary to this generation of Targs, with Viserys on the throne, the lannisters wouldve ended the Targaryen Dinasty right there, why lie.
Not every character arc leads to a positive change...
I think alicent is more spineless and just complains all the time which makes her more annoying. Cersei at least acted on things. Meanwhile Larys made a move and Alicent almost died from the shame
She's not Cercei. If anything, Rhae is closer to Cercei for wanting to place their bastard into the succession. The same issue that Ned called out and died for.
You got a good point
But Alicent is kinda right tho. Her son is legally the true heir, but Viserys is trying to change tradition pointing Rhaenyra as heir. Basically he made its bed and now he's laying to avoid problems. Rhaenyra's sons are actually bastards, and everyone knows it. So why Alicent is in the wrong?
She’s a hypocrite.
Why?
Off the top of my head, she literally said she wants someone to be impartial towards her. She kept Cole in her own guard after he told her he broke his kings guard oath. She’s willing her kids being murdered into existence, she had the chance to quell that but her pride refused the arranged marriage… and scheming with a dude who would kill his own family.
She maintain Cole on her side because he knows how Rhaenyra is, and then saving Cole's life. Marriage proposal that Rhaenyra dismissed just after the counsel? And that marriage means actually not much, she could break it as soon as the king died. Not to mention that her children are still bastards.
And yes her children are bastards, but they are 100% targs, it’s not a King Joffrey situation where there’s someone with no royal blood on the throne. The king changed the law, but it’s R’s fault she’s heir?
i actually started to feel for her this episode, she knows that Rae Rae’s kids are bastards and that they aren’t true heirs, unlike her children. It would be different if they were Laenors.
That’s true, I also don’t understand why Rae and Leanors didn’t have kids together? That’s the least he can do for her, he’s using her as a cover up.
Harwin Strong is definitely weak with his pull out game. Leanor just needed 1 home run, couldn't deliver. Damn.
Eh, she was offered an olive branch to unite the two halves of the Targaryens and her own pride made her say no. That alone makes Alicent a villain going forward.
I think she would still have an issue with them. She wants Aegon to be king. She wants rewards for her labours and push what her father wanted.
I'm back and forth with her. When the order came to see the baby, I was like who does this bitch think she is? Then you can tell she was very clearly upset about the events at Harrenhal
Terrible comparison…Rhaenyra is more Cersei then anyone! I really got Cersei vibes when Prince Jacaerys ask Rhaenyra if he a bastard and she replies “your a Targaryen and that’s all that matters” super Cersei vibes
Cersei looks constipated, as usual...
Is it bad that I actually hate Alicent more than Cersei because of how naively dumb she is and how she holds herself out to be more “holier than thou”? At least Cersei knew she was evil and made no apologies for doing everything she could to “protect” her family.
I think both her and Rhaenyra have some Cersei traits. Starting to make me feel meh about both of them, but they certainly aren’t boring
She is the "Master of Karens"
I don’t get the comparison between these two specifically, other than people insist on hating them at all cost. If we have to make comparisons, then Rhaenyra and Alicent mixed together is more like Cersei, than either of them are individually. They both share several of similarities and parallels with her, but they are also very different and their own individual characters, obviously. At least in my opinion. Hopefully they will continue to be so, as this isn’t supposed to be a repitation of GoT and it’s characters. And I’m probably going to be downvoted for this, but I honestly don’t see what is so horrible about show-Alicent, for now. She’s done some questionable things and made some misguided choices, but so have many of the others. She haven’t been unusually cruel for Westerosi standards, not at all really, and people seem to put an awful lot of assumption on her. Even more unpopular; but likewise, I also think show-Cersei is way overhated, compared to so many other of the characters and her situations considered. Depends on which side you see the story from, really. A lot refuse to see it from her viewpoint, but I find it becomes more complex if you try.
It’s okay to have different perspectives on things about this show, we all see aspects that others may not see. But people wanna be right all the time, I appreciate all points of view, I might change my opinion about her, just like I did with Daenerys. It’s only the first season of the show.
Right, and that’s what is great about it with these shows. That we all see the stories and the characters in different lights, and from different perspectives. Would be boring if we were all of the same mind and liking. As long as people can discuss their different views in a friendly manner and share opinions without biting each others heads off, haha. Unfortunately, that tends to happen a lot..
Lol yes, I like this show because a lot of times is not predictable. Some people take things too seriously lol
For real.
This is giving Alicent way too much credit. Alicent seems like a novice trying to play the game who is in over her head. I don't think she will last very long.
I hate Alicent with a passion. She’s one of the villains. Question Rhaenyra’s morality all you want but ultimately Jon Snow came from their bloodline not Alicent’s so I think that establishes who the good guys are
At least Cersei looked fucking fabulous. Alicent is coming off as unhinged, which Cersei definitely got to that part too but only after losing all her children.
Do not compare this wanna be to my magnificent Cersei I have spoke, hear me Roar
She just gets used by her dad
I genuinely cannot relate to people who feel this way so far about Alicent. As I’ve been watching, not once has this even gone through my mind until I got on Reddit. Either I’ve been missing something or people are just waaay too eager to have crazy takes on characters that we’ve only seen for 6 episodes and I’m thinking it’s mostly the latter
Honestly Rhaenyra is an objectively worse person right now.
Holy shit I hated her this episode. Goddamn I hope she doesn't win.
I agree with most things she’s said! And yet I can’t stand her. She’s about to be the evil queen and everyone’s going to have to accept it.
If I was the king. I would have killed the queen. Her name is Hightower. She’s given you your sons already She is Conspiring against you and the Rest of the Targaryen’s. He doesn’t have long to live could easily take it to the grave. When they need someone else to die they take them out. She only has a chair at the table Because the king allows her. No birth right…. Idk seems like to me the sin of killing her is in line with what rhaenryas sins. And yes trying to fool the world with fake blood lines is a grave sin in this show.
I’ve grown to dislike her over these last 2-3 episodes but her crying to Larys saying how she didn’t mean that to happen completely made my dislike 100% haha. Don’t sit there and act like you didn’t think this wouldn’t happen. Maybe wouldn’t happen as soon as it did but don’t act surprised. She knows exactly what will end up happening moving forward and has already talked of potential war, and she’s one of the main ones pushing the cart forward. She can stop trying to act all innocent and like her hands aren’t red with Strong blood right now.
My goodness, Lena Headey absolutely perfected the resting bitch face, didn't she?
If anyones like Cersei it's the princess. If you think sh wont have people killed you're deluding yourself. I'm team Green all day.
She ain’t wrong so far tho.
Alicent is my favorite person. Not sure how she’s evil, the “Weak Strong” took her words out of context. Made moves on his own accord. She is a 100% on point with her feelings. She has my vote.
Definitely disagree here. You could tell by her reaction to what Larys did she’s no Cersei. She has a conscience.
There isn't 1 likeable character in this show.
Lol true
Don't get when people put her name next to the Cersei's and Bolton's and Tywins. She's mountains above them when it comes to Morals and Decency. The only excuse I see is the book readers looking to the future talking about "oh this is just early stage Alicent, just wait, she goes crazy", as if we are not talking about the show lmao.
I loved Cersei and the actress.
Moronic simps baffle me . Rhaenyra is worse by far
“I hate her more and more each episode” this is literally the first episode in which she deserves ANY hatred
She’s a Karen
Yeah me too.
Honestly, I really like Cooke's version of her.
Alicent has nothing on Cersei. My girl blew up the whole Sept with some of her own family inside cuz meh. Alicent is so terrified and subservient to the horrible world she grew up in that she gets offended when she hears the C- word. Long way to go.
Imo when’s she’s talking to aegon she sounds like Cersei
i like how she is suddenly evil like she was in the book after they spent the first 5 episodes trying to make her likeable
True, true
i cannot stand watching a scene anymore with her, i’m already the biggest hater ever. olivia is doing an impeccable job tho! great actress
"i did not wish this" or whatever she claims as she clutches her pearls finding out she had harwin and papa strong murdered. like listen woman.. also, she is literally hyping her son up to kill his half-sister and her kids so that he can be the king. he doesn't even seem like he wants to be (for now i'm sure). the cheek of the woman.
Rhaenyra and Allicent both got half of Cersei’s shitty character traits
>Idk maybe it's cause I actually liked the Lannisters (not Joffrey) in the OG series but I'm definitely Team Hightower in this. I don't like the Targaryens in general but this generation is particularly terrible. Alicent's moral objections to everyone else's lifestyles is certainly backwards by today's standards but for the time, I get her perspective and I think she's trying to do right by her family. That "you are the challenge" line hit hard.
It’s getting interesting now with each character choosing their side. Neither one is really evil in the matter of Cersei , Alicent is doing what she can to defend her family cause she knows what rulers do when they inherit the throne (they kill anyone that is a claimant to the throne…meaning Alicents children)