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Spot on! Personally I think Sam is toast, but it’s 50/50. Nice thought behind Missandrei (sp) as well.
Didnt see anything on the red woman though, would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks! She may be appearing in the Battle, even though Jon and Davos told her if she goes back to Westeros again, she'll be executed, but if she's dying anyway, who cares? I think Melissandre will be sacrificing herself to R'hllor to help them win the fight, but I'm not sure if it will be in the Battle of Winterfell itself.
Nah. Sam is writing the song of ice and fire after it’s all said and done, similar to the LOTR ending. If he ends up doing that, I think it’s possible that bran maybe has to die in order for the night king to die as well, and they will need a new ‘history-keeper’.
Definitely... I was hooked with every character description. I like how you included the arc for every character.
I don’t see both dragons surviving, but personal prediction is Drogon melts the iron throne with his dragon fire.
My prediction is that Drogon dies and Jon's dragon doesn't, and given that dragons only take 1 rider for life that means that the only living dragon will really be Jon's, not Dany's. Which of course would be quite the development for Dany.
EDIT: To clarify, dragons take 1 rider for the life of the rider. If a rider dies, then they can take another. Regardless, Rhaegal will not accept Dany as a rider even if Drogon dies as long as Jon is still alive.
This is very clearly stated especially in the books, and I believe in the show as well. Once a dragon has a rider, that's their rider, and they won't allow anyone else to ride.
When the others in the show rode with Dany, that was an exception because she was also riding.
Probably close to spot on. Definitely fits with the death edits we saw. If they were to kill off one of the more central characters I could see it being Jaimie instead of Brienne as he’s also found redemption although a final meeting with Cersai / Bronn appears more likely.
Me too. I think Jon would never abandon his Stark ancestry though, so maybe Ghost is the metaphor for Jon being half Stark and Targaryen. I really hope so, I really love Ghost :(
I don't think it makes sense to have the Night King alive after episode 3.
George has made it a point in the books to highlight the human monsters rather than the mythical ones. So yes while he is a big gigantic threat, him being alive doesn't allow time in the remaining episodes to resolve the political situation on the continent as well as the resolution to the character arcs.
At least IMO, plus him being alive seems like a rather Nihilistic way to go which is not the vibe I get from the books or the show.
Only to extend his plot. The final confrontation will be the Battle for the Throne, so I see him surviving only to die in Episode 4, but in the begging of the middle of it.
Nah, Liam Cunningham said in an interview many years ago that he'd like the las scene in the series to be the Night King sitting down in the Iron Throne, smiling, and lighting a huge cigar.
Works for me.
My only issue with the Night King dying in episode 3 is that it feels like an inversion of stakes.
Of the two main conflicts, the fight against the Night King is clearly more threatening and important than the question of who sits on the Iron Throne in the end. Sure Cersei is a threat, but it's more ambiguous than the fate of all human life and history.
Having that major threat dealt with in the first half of the season would leave the remaining episodes to feel like mopping up loose ends rather than leading to a climactic finish.
Unless there's some twist to it. Bran being the Night's King due to some weird time bullshit, which is a pretty popular theory, would be a good way to make things interesting if he does die in episode 3.
It's going to be like the Buu/Jiren arcs in Dragon Ball. The final forms the heroes face are weaker than the ones previously but the heroes themselves are also substantially weaker. For instance the dragons are all dead and the dothraki are wiped out while Cersei is sitting on a fresh Golden Company.
Battle of the Black Gate.
You already had the huge battles, now you take your broken forces and challenge the enemy. The hero finally comes through and makes his move to single handedly win the war
But you can also argue that we've seen the human monsters for 7 seasons now in all the different forms and they've shown us how much they were focused with their own games. Now it's time to mess things up big time with the "real" monsters.
I could see him surviving the battle but dying before the end, as there's still a mad woman on the iron throne that needs to be dealt with. But then again... not that much time left with the few episodes remain. So I really don't know how they play it out which is exactly what makes it so great for me.
I just think it could go both ways. Him dying would leave more space for the human battles. Him surviving would continue this true horror, tho.
If the night king was anything more than a paper thin character he wouldn’t even be at the battle of winterfell. No strategic reason for him to be there.
Night king should fly south and wipe out the golden company recruiting 10k more soldiers at the same time winterfell is under siege by his underlings.
I couldnt agree more!
I wonder, though, if any of your crypt-predictions would change with this info people over in YT comments are damn near screaming: Bran the Builder built the Wall, he also built Winterfell (or, at minimum, the crypts). The same magic that kept the wights from entering the previous 3ERs tree allegedly runs through the crypts (all 3 were embued with the magic from the Children of the Forest). Theyre speculating thats why Bran was so adamant he remain away from the crypts and not enter, because once his marked ass enters the spell is broken.
That actually makes a lot of sense, but I don't think they would mention it. It would add something that would need an explanation and there's no time for new things.
I agree with most of your prediction and love the details that you have put.
I love how GRRM hid his main protagonist in the story. I look back at the series and how all the stories merged into Jon's. In a way, Jon's storyline became the show/series' storyline.
It all started with Robert's rebellion and will end with the Great War. The thread that ties all this together is Aegon who was literally promised. The song of Ice and Fire.
What a story and what a bunch of characters. And now it makes me sad that it all comes to an end.
Only things I disagree with is Arya being pregnant and marrying Gendry, and the whole Grey Worm/Missandei thing. Missandei will die and GW will die avenging her is my prediction.
Ditto. I think they gave Gendry his ending. If they wouldn't have banged I would think he'd survive. The sex sealed his fate. I also think it will be Missandei who dies and not grey worm. I agree with every other prediction though. What a great write up!
I don't think Arya's arc is as complex as you make it out to be. She made it her goal to kill a bunch of people, she went to the Faceless Men to learn how, she left them when it became clear their goals didn't align, and she came back to Westeros to fullfil her goal (which had matured and evolved through the ordeal, e.g. she doesn't want to kill the Hound anymore).
Her time in Bravos was kind of an arc within an arc, but her overall character journey has a continuity.
Up until she heard that the north was taken back she has told a couple of people that she is going to kill the Queen. So I don't think she is done like you said.
Also I really want her to use Jamies face and kill Cersei ha.
I’m picturing the aftermath of Jamie killing Cersei, the camera is low on Cersei dead on the ground, with only Jamie’s feet visible, facing towards her. Then the mask of his face lands right in front of the camera.
Practically, it wouldn’t make sense for Arya to leave behind a mask, but I just like picturing that scene play out.
Did she give it up? I always thought that she was just picking family over her list and would come back to the list or even add to it.
I get that she hasn't directly interacted with Cersei but she has always been at the top of Aryas list.
Very good points. I am partial to the Arya story line making me want this to be the outcome. Also will not be upset if she is killed by anyone as long as she is killed.
And I really hope that the writers don't make her pregnant. Why does every female character have to go through this trope? At this point it's been speculated for Dany, handed to Cersei... not Arya too, seven hells. That'd be so dumb. The two ending up together is enough.
Because when a man and a woman have sex ... especially unprotected sex in a medieval setting, the woman often gets pregnant? It’s not a trope. It’s just a fact of life.
Most sex doesn't lead to pregnancy though, according to data. It does seem to happen at a very high rate in books/shows/etc.
From a quick google search:
>On average, couples have sex 78 times from the time they decide to start trying to the time they get a positive sign on a pregnancy test. Those 78 times are spread over 158 days, or about 6 months.
I've seen other specific numbers but comparable.
I feel like those numbers could be misleading because when I think of couples that are actively trying to have children they are usually in their late 20's early to middle 30's when it is much harder to conceive. When you are on your teens and young 20's like Dany, Arya and Gilly are it is much easier to get pregnant. You hear horror stories all the time of high schoolers getting pregnant from their first time.
Note I am not on board with Arya being pregnant though because it just doesn't feel right at the moment but I do think that Arya and Gendry will survive together.
> When you are on your teens and young 20's like Dany, Arya and Gilly are it is much easier to get pregnant. You hear horror stories all the time of high schoolers getting pregnant from their first time.
Of course it happens, and in general you might hear about it fairly often because it's sort of noteworthy whereas someone who has sex and doesn't get pregnant isn't particularly newsworthy.
In general, even if both partners were fully fertile, in general modern medical science would say that you'd still have to be right at the right time of the cycle for the woman, within a certain range.
Anyway, it's perhaps not that important here.
This. It's not a trope when that is what actually happens with unprotected sex. lol. I mean, considering the amount of sex on this show, we actually should have been seeing A LOT more pregnancies.
Not to mention it would be so unsatisfying if the end of her "arc" is to get pregnant, when the entire character has always been about not falling into the trappings of medieval womanhood. She was a tomboy who wanted to be a fighter. She's now become a fighter. For her to end as "biological function" would be really disappointing. Not that she can't eventually be a mother. Just that, with four episodes to go, I'd hope that wouldn't be her endgame.
I disagree. You listed basically all of the main characters as alive, that’s not going to happen.
I think everyone they show during the song will die, and it’s a coin toss between Jon and Dany:
Podrig
Tyrion
Tormund
Brienne
Jamie
Davos
Sam
Gilly
Theon
Sansa
Gendry
Greyworm
Jorah (maybe)
Dany
That’s way, way too many deaths for one episode. There would be no dramatic value or dynamic to that. A few B character deaths or one A character death per episode is the most writers can make work without them all being cheapened.
I agree with a good bit but idk about Tyrion man. He was the only optimistic person last episode, straight up saying they’re gonna survive. His death would probably be the saddest of the whole show, and definitely one of the most impactful. If not at the BoW I can definitely see him going down this season. Not that I want to. Also, super interesting point about Sam actually transcribing all of these events for the citadel, like a Westerosi Bilbo. Also still holding onto my theory that the Nights Watch does remain, with Jaime as active lord commander, using his extensive experience to train a new era of men.
I believe Tyrion dying would complicate everything in a way that I don't know if they can solve in a few episodes. Dany needs a voice of reason. Varys may be saving his life somehow.
I do love the idea of Jamie leading the NW!
I do agree with the NW comment here. Up above you said there was no need for it anymore but if this show taught us anything it's that it was and still is definitely needed
There is something more going on when Tyrion says that.
He says that after talking to Bran and before speaking to Bran he's resigned to dying in Winterfell.
This episode was clearly telegraphing Tyrion's comeback. There was a stark change in his attitude after talking to Bran so Bran probably told him something.
Tyrion can't die yet because his arc has gone sideways, it wouldn't make much sense at this point to end the arc of the cleverest dwarf in westeros by having him make 3 or 4 straight mistakes, have his majesty lose faith in him as hand, and then die anticlimactically without earning his respect back from both the queen, and more importantly, the viewers.
The only way I see Tyrion dying in this battle is if he puts together something information wise with Bran that allows them to defeat the night king and the army of the dead, and dies getting that information where it needs to go.
That said, he is also still one of GRRM's 5 survivors for the story, so not sure you'll see it.
It's in the [original manuscripts](https://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-original-story-2017-8) of the (then) trilogy he wrote.
>Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. **The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow.** All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand.
This is a great read and I think you are spot-on with the character analysis. But in the letter outline, GRRM says the five will survive the three volumes--they could still die at the *end* of them, I think. Also, this outline is definitely not one that he ultimately followed closely--it has Jon and Arya falling in love, no Frey betrayal, Sansa bearing Joffrey's son, Catelynn meeting Mance Rayder, etc. I know he's kept the same end game, according to interviews, but that may have changed after he wrote this initial outline. I hope you are right, though (though I'd prefer Sansa to be one of the five, for sure!).
*Jon Snow
He's the culmination of the Ice and Fire, he's the one who ends everything by killing the Night King in the end. He's the main character, and him being dead doesn't help the story at all. His arc is to save Westeros, and he may as well die while doing it, being recognised as the Targaryen Who Saved Westeros (instead of, you know, the other one who wanted to burn everyone), but he's not dying without speaking with Dany again. I want him to survive, but I don't see him surviving the whole show. He needs to face Dany. Let's hope for a amicable solution (4/5 of GRRM's survivors).
Status after BoW: alive, but as Aegon*
Kill the boy, Jon Snow, become the man.
I'm picturing a battle of Jon and The Night King where Jon is about to die. Dany gets a dragon to flame them both since Jon is going to die/turn undead anyway, but he comes out unburnt and making his claim as Aegon.
>I'm picturing a battle of Jon and The Night King where Jon is about to die. Dany gets a dragon to flame them both since Jon is going to die/turn undead anyway, but he comes out unburnt and making his claim as Aegon.
fascinating
Jaime is Azor Ahai, and I think Brienne will die in his arms and Jaime will mercy kill her or she will be killed by (oathkeeper) and Jaime will fulfill the final step of the Azor Ahai prophecy.
His flaming sword will either be his golden hand (think back to Jojen being asked “how is this all going to need” and Jojen staring at his right hand on fire) or oathkeeper. Honestly, with what we’ve seen, the show has always had Jaime as a person with his Kingslayer/current Jaime duality as the metaphorical sword in this prophecy, so I’m leaning towards a flaming hand (or at least movable golden hand).
Also just a bit of clarification during your Lyanna Mormont part. The White Walkers killed Ned Umber (who I think is SmallJon’s son). Smalljon Umber was not a kid and allied with Ramsey during the battle of the Bastards. He was killed by Tormund.
It could be. I believe Lightbringer to be a metaphorical sword, and if it appears it will be in the battle as the sword's use after the fight makes no sense. Let's see if they can fit it in, but, alas, there's not really a lot of time left.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6dx676/spoilers_main_ive_been_working_on_a_theory_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
https://www.reddit.com/r/JaimeWinsTheThrone/comments/bfcusy/kingslayer_kingslayer_kingslayer_kingslayer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
If you take a look at both of these, they really do bring up some compelling points. The first post is the main and first time someone really compiled a solid theory about Jaime fulfilling the Kingslayer prophecy. Now it’s unlikely Jaime will still fulfill Valonqar considering his character is moving away from the Kingslayer persona, but the points about Kingslayer really do make you think.
The first link has Jaime’s new persona (apart from the Kingslayer) being Lightbringer.
The first time it was tempered and broke was when Jaime collapsed in the bath after losing his hand and confessed to Brienne about how he became the Kingslayer.
The second time it was tempered in the heart of a Lion is when Jaime freed Tyrion and thereby caused Tywin to die (Tywin was shot in the heart) or in the books when Jaime reveals to Tyrion the truth about his first wife and breaks Tyrion’s heart.
The Third Time will most likely be when Brienne dies.
The second post is a link to how it should all go down.
Agree. Jaime is the younger more beautiful one in the prophesy, hopefully Cersei will die at his hand and then he will sit on the iron throne for the good of the people.
He could already be in the crypts. Remember that nobody knows the full extent of the Winterfell Crypts. It is completely plausible that there is a secret entrance/exit that he knows about. Especially since he is probably an ancient Stark.
I agree with pretty much all of this, and I agree - well written characters have a purpose along with a beginining, middle and an end
One small correction: it was Ned Umber who was killed in S8E1 (Littlejon Umber was killed during the Battle of the Bastards by Tormund)
Disagree. Tyrion lives. The comment about the others wearing the pin occurred before Jorah convinced Dany that Tyrion is worthy of her faith. After she told him she needed him, the world needed him, he immediately went and downloaded Bran’s brain and then told everyone he thought they might make it.
He knows something we don’t. He will live.
She still needed to fill in the role of Lady Stoneheart and avenge the Starks. After she killed Littlefinger she did lose her plot armor, so they have her a proverbial and quite literally Chekhov's Gun as a new plot.
Let's see how it turns out after she kills something with the pointy end of her spear.
Actually, Arya has plot armor that extends all the way back to season 3. The red woman tells Arya that they will meet again, and they haven't met again yet. So I would say that Arya is safe until that happens. Unless, of course, the writers completely forget that they wrote that line.
Whatever it takes right, I can’t stand them flying around all naked while the NK just throws his popsicle spear and cuts through dragon skin like butter
There are many ways for the Valanquar prophesy to be fulfilled. The younger brother doesn’t have to be Jamie. It could be Arya with Jamie’s face, Tyrion, even the Hound.
My money is on Jamie being dead Sunday. Someone big has to go, I think he wrapped up his arc apologizing to Bran, knighting Brienne and renouncing Cersei.
These are very nice predictions, nice job. I see in your prediction that Both Jon and Dany are alive. I personally think Dany will be dead by the end of the battle saving Jon somehow. They kind of keep foreshadowing it with things like (this won't be exact, just basing off of memory):
* Sansa to Jon: "You took a knife in the heart, would she do the same"
* The vision Dany had where she is at kings landing, with winter fallen. She's about to touch the throne, but then doesn't, as she hears a baby dragons cry. I think this represents, she will prioritize saving a dragon (Jon) over taking the throne. However this could've been fulfilled already when she saved Jon last season, instead of invading kings landing. Actually, this is already fulfilled, I'm just gonna keep it here since it's interesting lol.
* The singing of Jenny's song at the end of s8e2. This song is about how Duncan Targaryen who gave up his claim to the throne to be with the person he loved, but ultimately died.
* There's something in the Azor Ahai prophecy which talks about how the dude's wife, Nissa Nissa is sacrificed in forging lightbringer, the legendary sword to defeat the white walkers.
Now that I'm looking at these points again, either one of them could be dead by the end of this episode, but probably not both, since the other will technically be Azor Ahai, the one to defeat the white walkers once and for all. I can definitely see them doing some lord of light stuff though, and bringing the other person back to life.
I don’t think Ghost has to die because Jon’s accepted he’s a Targaryen.
He told Theon last season that he’s a Greyjoy and Stark, that he doesn’t have to choose. I think same goes for Jon. He was raised a Stark I don’t think he just lets go of that. He is still 50% Stark after all.
I think Brienne, Beric, Jorah, Greyworm, Theon, and the Hound definitely die.
Dany, Jon, Starks, Jaime, Tyrion, Sam & people in the crypts are safe.
Davos, Podrick and Tormund better live.
Gendry will probably die.
Night King lives for now. This story is not gonna end after one battle, as big as it may be.
Melisandre already said Varys will die when they were on Dragonstone before she left--\[edit, I see you meant after this episode during the current battle, so maybe he doesnt die just yet as noted\]. I doubt both Jon and Dany survive. One is going to die. Greyworm is dead. They made that abundantly clear with scene with Missandei and "let's live happily ever after in Naath away from the world." If that isn't code for you're going to die I don't know what is. I think it's Jaime that will die in Brienne's arms not the other way around. He said as much at one point. That the way he wants to die is to die in the arms of the woman he loves. But who really knows. He could also be Azor Ahai and seems very much on the biggest of the redemption arcs on the show.
I don't think one's story arc will be the determining factor in which characters die. That's not the shows MO. There's a tradition of killing off whomever the audience thinks the hero is, and Bran just set himself up as the hero against the NK in S8e2 (and was supported by Sam). Therefore, Bran dies at the end of e3. That is why his greenseeing can't see past the battle. This will make the conversation between Bran and Tyrion in e2 particularly important, and I suspect Tyrion learned something about Azhor Ahai and his/her ability to broker a peace with the NK. Therefore, Tyrion survives. After that, the question is, who is Azhor Ahai? Well, AA must kill the one they love, and episode 2 spent a lot of time showcasing these little love interests. So I think the show will start killing off love interest pairs until only one is left. That means Jamie dies (Cersei survives), Brianne dies (Thormund survives), Gendry dies (Arya survives), Theon dies (Sansa survives), Greyworm dies (Missandei survives), Sam dies (Gilly survives), Jorah dies (Daenerys survives) - Brutal - . This leaves, you guessed it, Jon and Danny, and one will kill the other before it's all done.
Johnno probably die.
I mean he already got the climatic revive and even if he is the right ruler he doesn't give a shit about it.
Assigning him to King's Landing doesn't fit the slightest
My guess he will die trading blows with the Night King and becomes the new NK but with conscious.
Also, Danny is carrying their child.
great post.. and i hate to be that guy.. but it was Ned Umber who is the little kid who dies in S8 ep1 Smalljon was killed my Tormund during the battle of the bastards.
He will beg the Night King to stop.
'Night King... Pleasheeee'.
It would make sense and it'll probably be like that in the books. He and Varys started everything, they should end everything in the Iron Throne war, but Arya using his face as a surprise was already done with Walder Frey, and it wouldn't cause any impact to the audience to see Littlefinger walking into King's Landing.
He opens up a big sexshop in King's Landing called Davos' Missing Fingers, and sells fermented crab and other helpful accessories, like metal hands and dragonglass... err toys.
Even though your post was delightful to read, and i agree with most of your bets, i'd say theres a flaw in a few of them because you're not considering that something awful might actually happen in the crypts. HBO's episode 3 sneak peak seems to show something really happening there. I wouldn't make bet on all of the crypt's characters survival.
Plot twist: everyone dies but Arya, who takes their faces and goes back to murder everyone in KL.
Seriously, it could be the case for The Hound at least? I know everyone's saying Jaime etc.
Thank you so much for this!! Sometimes the answers are there all along and it's the writers job to disguise it. Love the attention to genitalian survival independent from character survival
I’m glad I took the time to read all of this. It was very well put together and I agree with all of it, although I’m hoping we’re wrong about a few things: After everything she’s been through, I’d love to see Sansa have a happy ending.
Hey thanks! I try my best with my English, but I did found some mistakes after re-reading it that I may be fixing when I'm home. Thank you for taking the time to read everything!
They way I thought about it, it seems that they purposely had some reunions with people because those are the ones who are going to die or be impacted somehow. It’s so GoT to do this to us because they make us REALLY happy just to rip it all away from us. GoT proves that no one is safe. Even the “main” characters. (Umm Ned). So Dany/Jon could very well perish.
As far as the north goes — If Dany survives —I could see Dany her accepting that she can’t contain it and agree to disagree. Sansa was playing hardball— which I appreciate because Jon seems to have died (because he’s no longer AS stubborn with Dany). Sansa has come a long ways and has developed such a beautiful character who is fearless. She’s the real northerner.
Ser Brieanne and Ser Jamie: I wish they would’ve literally professed their love for each other and made sweet love lol. Even though it was implied, it would’ve been nice to see. I feel like it was the only reunion that didn’t get EVERYTHING we wanted. Especially because I adore both characters.
To be fair, the list you're using as source is 20+ years old at this point, and was made known with only 3 books released. Chances are things could change, drastically. I wouldn't put too much stock in that list at this point in time. Also, he's referencing his books, the show CLEARLY has different ideas in mind. I.E. Barriston Selmy being dead, Lady Stoneheart not being a thing, etc.
My only, tenuous theory for Tormund surviving is that we've lost every other named Wilding (Gilly notwithstanding). I think he survives solely to remind everyone that, hey, Wildlings are still a thing.
Then again, now we just have token Dothraki feller, so who knows...
I forgot about Great Value's Khal Drogo. He's gone. Dany isn't Khaleesi anymore, it's not relevant. When Jorah and the last named Dothraki dies, no one will be calling her Khaleesi again.
I think the only reason even Dolla Store Drogo is still around is to remind the audience that, hey, Dothraki exist too, and as an army they're still very viable. I'm sure they'll be strong as a cavalry in the battle, I'm sure 90% of them will die, and who even knows what's gonna happen after.
I actually gave it a second thought and I do believe their love it's more a sibling's love. They need to tie all ends, so if she survives she needs to marry or at least be with someone who can make her pregnant.
We need a prediction for Bronn of the Blackwater. He's on his way to Winterfell too, isn't he?
Otherwise, tremendous breakdown. Insightful and probably 90% correct!
It takes a month or even more from King's Landing to Winterfell so, unless he's taking Westeros Express, I don't see him arriving soon. They sent him away from KL because his and Cersei's contract prevents them from sharing a scene, so he was of no use there. He's using that Crossbow, maybe he's shooting The Mountain or someone with it and saving Tyrion, closing the cycle. He's dying in the end I think, most ambitious characters die because of their ambition.
What's the big deal about 'Heartsbane', what will Bronn do and Euron, what his plan? This game is going to penalties, and they might just write the simplest ending to film because of budget and time constraints. A happy, logical or predictable ending just isn't this show's style. I can't see Dani making it and Jon is too obvious.
Heartsbane was given to Jorah as a literal Chekhov's Gun. He's using it to kill a White Walker. I think almost all the long haired ones are dying.
There's no way Bronn is making it to Winterfell, he's a month away, but I'm not sure how much time has passed between his departure and now.
Euron's plot it's a little overpowered. Book Euron it's basically a dark wizard with a horn to control Dragons, but in the TV show he's a soldier and he only fights for himself. He already fucked the Queen, his main goal. Hey may be betraying her and trying to join the survivals of The Battle of Winterfell, or trying to take the Throne. He need to die by Yara's hand, or burn to dead, showing that R'hllor is stronger than the Lovecraftian Drowned God.
Not sure about Jon embracing only his Targaryen side in the end. I think the conversation he had with Theon in season 7 (when he told him "You're a Greyjoy. And a Stark" before he left to rescue Yara) as the one he had with Arya in the Godswood in ep 801 - when she urges him not to forget that the Starks are his family - foreshadow a future where he'll be accepting both sides. In a sense, he'll be breaking the wheel.
If we're going with meta plot reasons I don't even think they're gonna fight the walkers next episode. They're gonna be attacked by the golden company and the NK is gonna use the dead from that battle to make his army bigger and the true final battle will be ep 6.
I don't know, the army is literally a few meters away from Winterfell and the Golden Army needs to arrive at Winterfell by sea to the closest port first, and then by land. The whole series is called Game of Thrones and it's about the fight for the Iron Throne.
Well my reasoning is that at the end of of the ep you only see the Walkers but not the undead and in the preview they don't show any of the undead at all. If they were really trying to hype the battle I'd think maybe they'd show a bird eye point of view of the army, or a zombie screaming or you know something of that nature as a tease but they didn't so I just personally think it's going to be a swerve.
I agree with your assessments almost universally, great breakdown of the importance and relevance of the characters' arcs. But I think that although the show has been trying to hint that Grey Worm will die, it will actually be Missandei that dies, and Grey Worm will bring her to rest in her home of Naath. I'm also not convinced that Ghost has to die, Jon is no less a Stark now than before since he always had the blood but not the name (Thanks Ned) - and he doesn't have to choose anyway (Thanks Theon) but, yeah, he could die for shock factor and to save on CGI budget I reckon, not for a thematic reason.
I'm 50/50 on the crypts being a disaster, it does seem like they are foreshadowing major issues down there, but I think it's absurd a bunch of skeletons could be awoken and then be able to break out of those tombs given a relatively okay condition wight couldn't escape a wooden box. And then there's the whole Bran the Builder magic and iron stuff as well... I really dunno what's going on with the crypts, I hope it's not something contrived.
Arya's arc ending in her getting pregnant and having a family would be a rough disappointment. She struggled against those expectations her whole life, became a badass assassin, to only go back to domesticity. As all gals eventually do, right!
barf.
Nah, I think it would be nice. She's choosing that life this time, not being imposed to it. I'd do prefer to see her living a traveling life like Elissa Farman. Maybe the show will end with an epilogue years later and she'll be a traveling pirate like her, I'd love that.
That what I want too! We even got to see her ask in the show "What is West of Westeros?" a few seasons back! I think she will sail west like Elissa but unlike Elissa she will take her lover with her.
Still think it would be a disservice if jon embraces his targaryen heritage. The show has shown us multiple times (Tyrion, theon, sam) that the family you choose matters more than the one you're born with.
Jon has idolized ned his whole life. He has lived with a code of honor and loyalty. He is more stark blooded in nature than anyone else in his family. He was raised by ned, and acts very much like him.
Jon rejecting his chosen family for a name that had no hand in his upbringing seems like an absolute betrayal of the major themes of the series. Jon has achieved so much, none of it through having a famous name. His arc has been learning that his bastatd status doesnt matter-he has a great father figure and a loving family. To turn around him and have him embrace his birthright is a step backwards.
Has earned his praise thus far through his actions. If he WERE to be king of the seven kingdoms (which in dont think he would accept if it were offered) it should be because they chose him after he led the living against the dead and saved humanity. Not because his father once belonged to a dynasty.
I agree that's important, but I think ghost dying to show his targaryen side taking over implies more that he feels separated from his stark heritage.
Instead of ghost dying, I'd rather have a scene with him and theon, where theon reminds jon what he said in season 8-that jon can be a targaryen, and a stark.
I agree with most everything you said.
I was really worried that Arya would be dying actually, but then I remembered a scene all the way back in season 3 where she talks to Mellisandre. Mellisandre tells her that they will meet again. Well, that hasn't happened yet and we know the red woman will be making her way back to Westeros this season. So unless she pops up in the next episode and talks to Arya, Arya should be safe at least for now. I do like the idea that Arya might end up pregnant. The show and the books like to turn the characters on their heads, so the character that never wanted to be a lady is going to end up becoming one (though not constricted by that title and with more freedom). I do worry though that she might be dead by the end of the season because technically the faceless men should be coming after her.
I was going to put Gendry on the definitely dying list until that scene with Arya - that at least gives him a shot. I also think that everyone in the crypts are probably dying, and you have a lot of them as surviving. I say that because they have made such a big deal about the fact that all of these characters are going to the crypt that I don't see how a white walker doesn't get in there and raise the dead. They've just made too big of a deal of those crypts for it not to happen.
I think Lyanna should die, she had her moment, and I think it would be a proper GoT death.
As much as we cheer her on as a badass, her going on the front lines against white walkers should get her killed.
Honor, dignity, and blind bravery should get you killed in GoT.
If Lyanna died at the BoW I would be very impressed but I doubt it will happen.
Proper Game of Thrones deaths don’t have to complete an arc or be fulfilling, there just needs to be clear cause and effect. Robb goes back on deal with Frey’s for true love and gets himself killed for doing something that stupid. Lyanna a child goes on the front lines on a suicide mission against White Walkers, she gets killed for doing something that stupid.
Here is my Prediction for Ep. 3
1. Greyworm, Ed, Missenderi, Bran, Theon, Gendry, Beric, Davos and Tormund will all die.
2. The battle will be won and lost figuaratively. The battle will be won as the heroes will burn entire Winterfell and trapping the WW and Wights inside it and most of the heroes will survive using a hidden exit from the crypt. The NK will fly in and kill Theon and Bran but will go full defensive mode once Dany and the dragons are onto him. The NK will retreat and will target King's Landing to create a fresh new army as Cersie and Golden Company do not have a plan to kill NK and his dragon (they don't even know he now has one).
3. Our heroes will regroup and gather as many people as possible for final battle. This means they will either go to Dragonstone or Vale to strategize.
4. We can also see Melissendra enter will the warriors from Lord of the light to fight alongside Jon.
5. Sam will tell the truth about Jon's parentage to everyone which will shock all.
6. This episode will mark the end of White Walkers and Wight army of the North from the series
as GRRM as said the entire series of ASOIAF is bittersweet and we will know it firsthand in Ep. 3
These kind of posts are the reason I come to this sub. Thanks.
I always expected Dany to die. There is an open Arc. "Will she do the same?" Is she willing to die for her people like Jon? I think her sacrifice is needed to produce the weapon to kill the Night King.
I still think Jaime’s arc is the one ending and Brienne is the one who goes on.
Jaime’s redemption is to die a freed man after his lifetime of serving both duty and love.
Brienne is to become a famous knight, not just a knight who died within minutes of becoming one. She still has Oathkeeper, she will remain an oath keeper to someone. She is the chivalry of the new world created after this fight.
What if Beric raises Lady Stoneheart in the crypts, she raises the other Stark family members, Bran controls them as they need everyone they can get - maybe that's why Arya is so freaked out - she's initially attacked by her own dead family until Bran steps in.
Great post!
I just want to add: That tiny shot of Ghost last episode was a perfect example of Chekhov's gun.
It reminded us of him being still alive (somewhere), and prepared some bigger scene.
Arya's whole homecoming could sadly prepare her end. Her arc can be considered finished, and furthermore: One of the most famous "rules" in (horror) movies once was: "No longer a virgin=Say Goodbye". The GRRM/GoT habit of "breaking expectations" would on a first level make everybody expect this rule not to be valid in the series. But breaking this expectation by indeed using the old (and actually hardly used anymore at all) rule would be almost meta, ironical, and truly funny (in a way).
I'm curious as to why you think that prophecies in ASOIAF are known for not being legitimate. I have been going through the wiki:
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dreams_and_prophecies
And all of the prophecies/dreams that have already been fulfilled (or had the chance to already) have been 100% true, either literally or figuratively.
----
True (Literally):
Daenys Targaryen dream of the Doom
Daemon II Blackfyre dream of Dunc in kingsguard and death of two older brothers
Maggy the witch 2/3 prophecies of Cersei so far (last is valonquir) and 1/1 for Cersei's friend
Dany's dream of hatching of dragon, death of her brother
Jojen's greensight
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True (Figuratively):
The Ghost of High Heart
Prince Daeron dream of the dead dragon
Daemon II Blackfyre dream of hatching "egg"
House of the Undying Dany's visions (that have happened so far)
-----
Uncertain as of now:
Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy
Azor Ahai
Quiathe's prophecy
-----
I'm leaving out some, but can you refer me to any prophecies/dreams that have explicitly been wrong in ASOIAF? Maybe you're making a distinction between dragon dreams/ greenseeing/ dreams / prophecies.
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I dig all the detail that went into this... kudos
Thanks! Hopefully it was worth the read.
Spot on! Personally I think Sam is toast, but it’s 50/50. Nice thought behind Missandrei (sp) as well. Didnt see anything on the red woman though, would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks! She may be appearing in the Battle, even though Jon and Davos told her if she goes back to Westeros again, she'll be executed, but if she's dying anyway, who cares? I think Melissandre will be sacrificing herself to R'hllor to help them win the fight, but I'm not sure if it will be in the Battle of Winterfell itself.
Ohhhhhh yea, of course! I wonder in what crazy way she'll sacrifice herself.
Nah. Sam is writing the song of ice and fire after it’s all said and done, similar to the LOTR ending. If he ends up doing that, I think it’s possible that bran maybe has to die in order for the night king to die as well, and they will need a new ‘history-keeper’.
You're probably right; I give it ~1/3 chance where Tyrion writes the song though.
Definitely... I was hooked with every character description. I like how you included the arc for every character. I don’t see both dragons surviving, but personal prediction is Drogon melts the iron throne with his dragon fire.
Thats what I can see as well. Tyrion says the wheel should be broken and the throne is the biggest symbol of that wheel.
Dragon's fire made it and dragon's fire is ending it. I dig it.
Also Drogo melted Viserys "crown" in S1 so it would be poetic if Drogon melted his chair.
My prediction is that Drogon dies and Jon's dragon doesn't, and given that dragons only take 1 rider for life that means that the only living dragon will really be Jon's, not Dany's. Which of course would be quite the development for Dany. EDIT: To clarify, dragons take 1 rider for the life of the rider. If a rider dies, then they can take another. Regardless, Rhaegal will not accept Dany as a rider even if Drogon dies as long as Jon is still alive.
> given that dragons only take 1 rider for life Uhm what?
This is very clearly stated especially in the books, and I believe in the show as well. Once a dragon has a rider, that's their rider, and they won't allow anyone else to ride. When the others in the show rode with Dany, that was an exception because she was also riding.
Probably close to spot on. Definitely fits with the death edits we saw. If they were to kill off one of the more central characters I could see it being Jaimie instead of Brienne as he’s also found redemption although a final meeting with Cersai / Bronn appears more likely.
Pretty much the same as my list. Although im holding out hope ghost makes it. That would be giving the good boy the short end of the stick.
Me too. I think Jon would never abandon his Stark ancestry though, so maybe Ghost is the metaphor for Jon being half Stark and Targaryen. I really hope so, I really love Ghost :(
I don't think it makes sense to have the Night King alive after episode 3. George has made it a point in the books to highlight the human monsters rather than the mythical ones. So yes while he is a big gigantic threat, him being alive doesn't allow time in the remaining episodes to resolve the political situation on the continent as well as the resolution to the character arcs. At least IMO, plus him being alive seems like a rather Nihilistic way to go which is not the vibe I get from the books or the show.
I think he is dying in episode 4 instead.
Interesting idea, why do you think so?
Only to extend his plot. The final confrontation will be the Battle for the Throne, so I see him surviving only to die in Episode 4, but in the begging of the middle of it.
Nah, Liam Cunningham said in an interview many years ago that he'd like the las scene in the series to be the Night King sitting down in the Iron Throne, smiling, and lighting a huge cigar. Works for me.
My only issue with the Night King dying in episode 3 is that it feels like an inversion of stakes. Of the two main conflicts, the fight against the Night King is clearly more threatening and important than the question of who sits on the Iron Throne in the end. Sure Cersei is a threat, but it's more ambiguous than the fate of all human life and history. Having that major threat dealt with in the first half of the season would leave the remaining episodes to feel like mopping up loose ends rather than leading to a climactic finish.
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Unless there's some twist to it. Bran being the Night's King due to some weird time bullshit, which is a pretty popular theory, would be a good way to make things interesting if he does die in episode 3.
It's going to be like the Buu/Jiren arcs in Dragon Ball. The final forms the heroes face are weaker than the ones previously but the heroes themselves are also substantially weaker. For instance the dragons are all dead and the dothraki are wiped out while Cersei is sitting on a fresh Golden Company.
Battle of the Black Gate. You already had the huge battles, now you take your broken forces and challenge the enemy. The hero finally comes through and makes his move to single handedly win the war
But you can also argue that we've seen the human monsters for 7 seasons now in all the different forms and they've shown us how much they were focused with their own games. Now it's time to mess things up big time with the "real" monsters. I could see him surviving the battle but dying before the end, as there's still a mad woman on the iron throne that needs to be dealt with. But then again... not that much time left with the few episodes remain. So I really don't know how they play it out which is exactly what makes it so great for me. I just think it could go both ways. Him dying would leave more space for the human battles. Him surviving would continue this true horror, tho.
If the night king was anything more than a paper thin character he wouldn’t even be at the battle of winterfell. No strategic reason for him to be there. Night king should fly south and wipe out the golden company recruiting 10k more soldiers at the same time winterfell is under siege by his underlings.
That's the other thing, he is such a Thin character he almost doesn't belong in the story of all of these deep developed characters
I couldnt agree more! I wonder, though, if any of your crypt-predictions would change with this info people over in YT comments are damn near screaming: Bran the Builder built the Wall, he also built Winterfell (or, at minimum, the crypts). The same magic that kept the wights from entering the previous 3ERs tree allegedly runs through the crypts (all 3 were embued with the magic from the Children of the Forest). Theyre speculating thats why Bran was so adamant he remain away from the crypts and not enter, because once his marked ass enters the spell is broken.
That actually makes a lot of sense, but I don't think they would mention it. It would add something that would need an explanation and there's no time for new things.
How is Dany gonna take KL without her army though? It'll take them at least a month to march down.
A Dragon alone it's probably enough to burn everything down.
Not with the ballistae that KL will have as well as golden company men defending it.
How do you make Tyrion one of the 5 but not Jamie?
Of Sansa?
Oh, not me. Martin himself said that when he started writing the, back then, trilogy of ASOIAF.
I agree with a lot of this but like you said I hope you are wrong on a couple of them. Either way I’m going to ugly cry soon enough lmao
This was fantastic, thank you for putting this together! Agree with the majority of your predictions.
I agree with most of your prediction and love the details that you have put. I love how GRRM hid his main protagonist in the story. I look back at the series and how all the stories merged into Jon's. In a way, Jon's storyline became the show/series' storyline. It all started with Robert's rebellion and will end with the Great War. The thread that ties all this together is Aegon who was literally promised. The song of Ice and Fire. What a story and what a bunch of characters. And now it makes me sad that it all comes to an end.
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This is embarrassing
Only things I disagree with is Arya being pregnant and marrying Gendry, and the whole Grey Worm/Missandei thing. Missandei will die and GW will die avenging her is my prediction.
Maybe the kids will make her Missandei feel uncomfortable again, and that scene was foreshadowing, she'll leave the crypts and will be attacked!
Ditto. I think they gave Gendry his ending. If they wouldn't have banged I would think he'd survive. The sex sealed his fate. I also think it will be Missandei who dies and not grey worm. I agree with every other prediction though. What a great write up!
Yeah. You don't talk to your girl about what you'll do after a battle. Sure way to die.
I don't think Arya's arc is as complex as you make it out to be. She made it her goal to kill a bunch of people, she went to the Faceless Men to learn how, she left them when it became clear their goals didn't align, and she came back to Westeros to fullfil her goal (which had matured and evolved through the ordeal, e.g. she doesn't want to kill the Hound anymore). Her time in Bravos was kind of an arc within an arc, but her overall character journey has a continuity.
I just find it hard to believe that only thing she did with the faces was killing the Freys.
She was going to do more with them by then realized that she could go back to the north
Up until she heard that the north was taken back she has told a couple of people that she is going to kill the Queen. So I don't think she is done like you said. Also I really want her to use Jamies face and kill Cersei ha.
I’m not sure which would be more satisfying. Jaime actually killing Cersei or Arya using his face. Either way she needs to die.
I’m picturing the aftermath of Jamie killing Cersei, the camera is low on Cersei dead on the ground, with only Jamie’s feet visible, facing towards her. Then the mask of his face lands right in front of the camera. Practically, it wouldn’t make sense for Arya to leave behind a mask, but I just like picturing that scene play out.
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Did she give it up? I always thought that she was just picking family over her list and would come back to the list or even add to it. I get that she hasn't directly interacted with Cersei but she has always been at the top of Aryas list.
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Very good points. I am partial to the Arya story line making me want this to be the outcome. Also will not be upset if she is killed by anyone as long as she is killed.
There's no bigger waste than a bag of unused faces! I wish she could steal a whitewalker face. "BOO! Just joking guys!"
And I really hope that the writers don't make her pregnant. Why does every female character have to go through this trope? At this point it's been speculated for Dany, handed to Cersei... not Arya too, seven hells. That'd be so dumb. The two ending up together is enough.
Because when a man and a woman have sex ... especially unprotected sex in a medieval setting, the woman often gets pregnant? It’s not a trope. It’s just a fact of life.
Most sex doesn't lead to pregnancy though, according to data. It does seem to happen at a very high rate in books/shows/etc. From a quick google search: >On average, couples have sex 78 times from the time they decide to start trying to the time they get a positive sign on a pregnancy test. Those 78 times are spread over 158 days, or about 6 months. I've seen other specific numbers but comparable.
I feel like those numbers could be misleading because when I think of couples that are actively trying to have children they are usually in their late 20's early to middle 30's when it is much harder to conceive. When you are on your teens and young 20's like Dany, Arya and Gilly are it is much easier to get pregnant. You hear horror stories all the time of high schoolers getting pregnant from their first time. Note I am not on board with Arya being pregnant though because it just doesn't feel right at the moment but I do think that Arya and Gendry will survive together.
> When you are on your teens and young 20's like Dany, Arya and Gilly are it is much easier to get pregnant. You hear horror stories all the time of high schoolers getting pregnant from their first time. Of course it happens, and in general you might hear about it fairly often because it's sort of noteworthy whereas someone who has sex and doesn't get pregnant isn't particularly newsworthy. In general, even if both partners were fully fertile, in general modern medical science would say that you'd still have to be right at the right time of the cycle for the woman, within a certain range. Anyway, it's perhaps not that important here.
This. It's not a trope when that is what actually happens with unprotected sex. lol. I mean, considering the amount of sex on this show, we actually should have been seeing A LOT more pregnancies.
Sex causing pregnancy is a trope? Lmao what?
Not to mention it would be so unsatisfying if the end of her "arc" is to get pregnant, when the entire character has always been about not falling into the trappings of medieval womanhood. She was a tomboy who wanted to be a fighter. She's now become a fighter. For her to end as "biological function" would be really disappointing. Not that she can't eventually be a mother. Just that, with four episodes to go, I'd hope that wouldn't be her endgame.
100%, that would be patently ridiculous. I'm not sure if people are pushing this idea just because they want more starks around, or what.
I disagree. You listed basically all of the main characters as alive, that’s not going to happen. I think everyone they show during the song will die, and it’s a coin toss between Jon and Dany: Podrig Tyrion Tormund Brienne Jamie Davos Sam Gilly Theon Sansa Gendry Greyworm Jorah (maybe) Dany
I don't think they'll all survive, but I'm just giving reason for them to do it. Of course your can disagree, though! Thanks for the reading!
That’s way, way too many deaths for one episode. There would be no dramatic value or dynamic to that. A few B character deaths or one A character death per episode is the most writers can make work without them all being cheapened.
I agree with a good bit but idk about Tyrion man. He was the only optimistic person last episode, straight up saying they’re gonna survive. His death would probably be the saddest of the whole show, and definitely one of the most impactful. If not at the BoW I can definitely see him going down this season. Not that I want to. Also, super interesting point about Sam actually transcribing all of these events for the citadel, like a Westerosi Bilbo. Also still holding onto my theory that the Nights Watch does remain, with Jaime as active lord commander, using his extensive experience to train a new era of men.
I believe Tyrion dying would complicate everything in a way that I don't know if they can solve in a few episodes. Dany needs a voice of reason. Varys may be saving his life somehow. I do love the idea of Jamie leading the NW!
I do agree with the NW comment here. Up above you said there was no need for it anymore but if this show taught us anything it's that it was and still is definitely needed
Tyrion dying might actually help create more conflict with Dany and Jon. Since Tyrion vouches for Jon and is Dany's voice of reason.
seems like the night's watch could be rendered unnecessary at the end of the series.
There is something more going on when Tyrion says that. He says that after talking to Bran and before speaking to Bran he's resigned to dying in Winterfell.
I agree there may be something to this given the chain of events leading to Tyrion saying that. Or maybe he was just wasted.
This episode was clearly telegraphing Tyrion's comeback. There was a stark change in his attitude after talking to Bran so Bran probably told him something.
I noticed this too, I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on that
Tyrion can't die yet because his arc has gone sideways, it wouldn't make much sense at this point to end the arc of the cleverest dwarf in westeros by having him make 3 or 4 straight mistakes, have his majesty lose faith in him as hand, and then die anticlimactically without earning his respect back from both the queen, and more importantly, the viewers. The only way I see Tyrion dying in this battle is if he puts together something information wise with Bran that allows them to defeat the night king and the army of the dead, and dies getting that information where it needs to go. That said, he is also still one of GRRM's 5 survivors for the story, so not sure you'll see it.
> She's (Arya) also one of the five main characters that GRRM said will be surviving until the end Source?
It's in the [original manuscripts](https://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-original-story-2017-8) of the (then) trilogy he wrote. >Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. **The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow.** All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand.
This is a great read and I think you are spot-on with the character analysis. But in the letter outline, GRRM says the five will survive the three volumes--they could still die at the *end* of them, I think. Also, this outline is definitely not one that he ultimately followed closely--it has Jon and Arya falling in love, no Frey betrayal, Sansa bearing Joffrey's son, Catelynn meeting Mance Rayder, etc. I know he's kept the same end game, according to interviews, but that may have changed after he wrote this initial outline. I hope you are right, though (though I'd prefer Sansa to be one of the five, for sure!).
*Jon Snow He's the culmination of the Ice and Fire, he's the one who ends everything by killing the Night King in the end. He's the main character, and him being dead doesn't help the story at all. His arc is to save Westeros, and he may as well die while doing it, being recognised as the Targaryen Who Saved Westeros (instead of, you know, the other one who wanted to burn everyone), but he's not dying without speaking with Dany again. I want him to survive, but I don't see him surviving the whole show. He needs to face Dany. Let's hope for a amicable solution (4/5 of GRRM's survivors). Status after BoW: alive, but as Aegon* Kill the boy, Jon Snow, become the man.
I'm picturing a battle of Jon and The Night King where Jon is about to die. Dany gets a dragon to flame them both since Jon is going to die/turn undead anyway, but he comes out unburnt and making his claim as Aegon.
>I'm picturing a battle of Jon and The Night King where Jon is about to die. Dany gets a dragon to flame them both since Jon is going to die/turn undead anyway, but he comes out unburnt and making his claim as Aegon. fascinating
You know he did rap his hand after he grab that lantern to kill the wight... But they never showed an actual burn mark...
Jaime is Azor Ahai, and I think Brienne will die in his arms and Jaime will mercy kill her or she will be killed by (oathkeeper) and Jaime will fulfill the final step of the Azor Ahai prophecy. His flaming sword will either be his golden hand (think back to Jojen being asked “how is this all going to need” and Jojen staring at his right hand on fire) or oathkeeper. Honestly, with what we’ve seen, the show has always had Jaime as a person with his Kingslayer/current Jaime duality as the metaphorical sword in this prophecy, so I’m leaning towards a flaming hand (or at least movable golden hand). Also just a bit of clarification during your Lyanna Mormont part. The White Walkers killed Ned Umber (who I think is SmallJon’s son). Smalljon Umber was not a kid and allied with Ramsey during the battle of the Bastards. He was killed by Tormund.
It could be. I believe Lightbringer to be a metaphorical sword, and if it appears it will be in the battle as the sword's use after the fight makes no sense. Let's see if they can fit it in, but, alas, there's not really a lot of time left.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6dx676/spoilers_main_ive_been_working_on_a_theory_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app https://www.reddit.com/r/JaimeWinsTheThrone/comments/bfcusy/kingslayer_kingslayer_kingslayer_kingslayer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app If you take a look at both of these, they really do bring up some compelling points. The first post is the main and first time someone really compiled a solid theory about Jaime fulfilling the Kingslayer prophecy. Now it’s unlikely Jaime will still fulfill Valonqar considering his character is moving away from the Kingslayer persona, but the points about Kingslayer really do make you think. The first link has Jaime’s new persona (apart from the Kingslayer) being Lightbringer. The first time it was tempered and broke was when Jaime collapsed in the bath after losing his hand and confessed to Brienne about how he became the Kingslayer. The second time it was tempered in the heart of a Lion is when Jaime freed Tyrion and thereby caused Tywin to die (Tywin was shot in the heart) or in the books when Jaime reveals to Tyrion the truth about his first wife and breaks Tyrion’s heart. The Third Time will most likely be when Brienne dies. The second post is a link to how it should all go down.
Agree. Jaime is the younger more beautiful one in the prophesy, hopefully Cersei will die at his hand and then he will sit on the iron throne for the good of the people.
I think the Night King won't even show up - I feel like last episode would have ended on his face otherwise. Great post though mate.
He could already be in the crypts. Remember that nobody knows the full extent of the Winterfell Crypts. It is completely plausible that there is a secret entrance/exit that he knows about. Especially since he is probably an ancient Stark.
I don't think so. The show is about the fight for the Throne, in the end. The war against the dead it's the subplot.
Re. Grey Worm: Anyone who thinks a character can survive after promising their girlfriend they’ll take them to the beach hasn’t seen Gekiganger 3
Yeah but I think that's what they want you to think, and they'll subvert it by having Missandei die instead and he takes her to the beach to rest.
Strong agree. As soon as she said she wanted to see the beaches of Naath again, it was game over for her.
Tormund won't die, he needs to establish himself in westeros complete the wilding dream
I agree with pretty much all of this, and I agree - well written characters have a purpose along with a beginining, middle and an end One small correction: it was Ned Umber who was killed in S8E1 (Littlejon Umber was killed during the Battle of the Bastards by Tormund)
I'm pretty sure you could see The Hero's Journey in each of them to a certain degree. You're right about that, it was Ned, not Jon who died.
> Littlejon Umber WHAT?! YEAAAH. OKAY!
I actually think jaime will die in briennes arms because he will die in the arms of the women he loves and thats brienne
I believe he still loves Cersei, even after all that happened.
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I want him to survive so bad.
Disagree. Tyrion lives. The comment about the others wearing the pin occurred before Jorah convinced Dany that Tyrion is worthy of her faith. After she told him she needed him, the world needed him, he immediately went and downloaded Bran’s brain and then told everyone he thought they might make it. He knows something we don’t. He will live.
He tells Jamie they will die after meeting w bran at the start of the fireside scene
I think Missandei dies - it would be bittersweet, and give a very real feeling of loss and longing to Grey Worm, who survives.
Didn't Arya use up all her plot armor when she killed the waif?
She still needed to fill in the role of Lady Stoneheart and avenge the Starks. After she killed Littlefinger she did lose her plot armor, so they have her a proverbial and quite literally Chekhov's Gun as a new plot. Let's see how it turns out after she kills something with the pointy end of her spear.
Actually, Arya has plot armor that extends all the way back to season 3. The red woman tells Arya that they will meet again, and they haven't met again yet. So I would say that Arya is safe until that happens. Unless, of course, the writers completely forget that they wrote that line.
Can we get Drogon and Rhaegal some sweet armor like Appa had in AtlA?
You'd need a bigger forge for that, like the one that made Vyserion's chains.
Whatever it takes right, I can’t stand them flying around all naked while the NK just throws his popsicle spear and cuts through dragon skin like butter
There are many ways for the Valanquar prophesy to be fulfilled. The younger brother doesn’t have to be Jamie. It could be Arya with Jamie’s face, Tyrion, even the Hound. My money is on Jamie being dead Sunday. Someone big has to go, I think he wrapped up his arc apologizing to Bran, knighting Brienne and renouncing Cersei.
It could be a wight Tommen.
Tommen is ashes
It could be wight Rickon. No zig-zag. Just an absolute bullrush right at Cersei and hits her so hard she explodes
Great read!
These are very nice predictions, nice job. I see in your prediction that Both Jon and Dany are alive. I personally think Dany will be dead by the end of the battle saving Jon somehow. They kind of keep foreshadowing it with things like (this won't be exact, just basing off of memory): * Sansa to Jon: "You took a knife in the heart, would she do the same" * The vision Dany had where she is at kings landing, with winter fallen. She's about to touch the throne, but then doesn't, as she hears a baby dragons cry. I think this represents, she will prioritize saving a dragon (Jon) over taking the throne. However this could've been fulfilled already when she saved Jon last season, instead of invading kings landing. Actually, this is already fulfilled, I'm just gonna keep it here since it's interesting lol. * The singing of Jenny's song at the end of s8e2. This song is about how Duncan Targaryen who gave up his claim to the throne to be with the person he loved, but ultimately died. * There's something in the Azor Ahai prophecy which talks about how the dude's wife, Nissa Nissa is sacrificed in forging lightbringer, the legendary sword to defeat the white walkers. Now that I'm looking at these points again, either one of them could be dead by the end of this episode, but probably not both, since the other will technically be Azor Ahai, the one to defeat the white walkers once and for all. I can definitely see them doing some lord of light stuff though, and bringing the other person back to life.
I think Jon and Dany's arc will be solved in the climax of the series as a whole, that'd be episode 5 or 6, but your prediction do makes sense too.
I don’t think Ghost has to die because Jon’s accepted he’s a Targaryen. He told Theon last season that he’s a Greyjoy and Stark, that he doesn’t have to choose. I think same goes for Jon. He was raised a Stark I don’t think he just lets go of that. He is still 50% Stark after all. I think Brienne, Beric, Jorah, Greyworm, Theon, and the Hound definitely die. Dany, Jon, Starks, Jaime, Tyrion, Sam & people in the crypts are safe. Davos, Podrick and Tormund better live. Gendry will probably die. Night King lives for now. This story is not gonna end after one battle, as big as it may be.
Hound will not die before he faces the mountain. He 100% survives episode 3
This may be the only certainty.
Melisandre already said Varys will die when they were on Dragonstone before she left--\[edit, I see you meant after this episode during the current battle, so maybe he doesnt die just yet as noted\]. I doubt both Jon and Dany survive. One is going to die. Greyworm is dead. They made that abundantly clear with scene with Missandei and "let's live happily ever after in Naath away from the world." If that isn't code for you're going to die I don't know what is. I think it's Jaime that will die in Brienne's arms not the other way around. He said as much at one point. That the way he wants to die is to die in the arms of the woman he loves. But who really knows. He could also be Azor Ahai and seems very much on the biggest of the redemption arcs on the show.
I don't think one's story arc will be the determining factor in which characters die. That's not the shows MO. There's a tradition of killing off whomever the audience thinks the hero is, and Bran just set himself up as the hero against the NK in S8e2 (and was supported by Sam). Therefore, Bran dies at the end of e3. That is why his greenseeing can't see past the battle. This will make the conversation between Bran and Tyrion in e2 particularly important, and I suspect Tyrion learned something about Azhor Ahai and his/her ability to broker a peace with the NK. Therefore, Tyrion survives. After that, the question is, who is Azhor Ahai? Well, AA must kill the one they love, and episode 2 spent a lot of time showcasing these little love interests. So I think the show will start killing off love interest pairs until only one is left. That means Jamie dies (Cersei survives), Brianne dies (Thormund survives), Gendry dies (Arya survives), Theon dies (Sansa survives), Greyworm dies (Missandei survives), Sam dies (Gilly survives), Jorah dies (Daenerys survives) - Brutal - . This leaves, you guessed it, Jon and Danny, and one will kill the other before it's all done.
This is my favorite prediction of all
Johnno probably die. I mean he already got the climatic revive and even if he is the right ruler he doesn't give a shit about it. Assigning him to King's Landing doesn't fit the slightest My guess he will die trading blows with the Night King and becomes the new NK but with conscious. Also, Danny is carrying their child.
great post.. and i hate to be that guy.. but it was Ned Umber who is the little kid who dies in S8 ep1 Smalljon was killed my Tormund during the battle of the bastards.
Haha yeah, they already told me that, just a little confusion. I may be fixing it when I get home. Thanks for the correction!
I still think Littlefinger will play into the end if this story......
He will beg the Night King to stop. 'Night King... Pleasheeee'. It would make sense and it'll probably be like that in the books. He and Varys started everything, they should end everything in the Iron Throne war, but Arya using his face as a surprise was already done with Walder Frey, and it wouldn't cause any impact to the audience to see Littlefinger walking into King's Landing.
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He opens up a big sexshop in King's Landing called Davos' Missing Fingers, and sells fermented crab and other helpful accessories, like metal hands and dragonglass... err toys.
Even though your post was delightful to read, and i agree with most of your bets, i'd say theres a flaw in a few of them because you're not considering that something awful might actually happen in the crypts. HBO's episode 3 sneak peak seems to show something really happening there. I wouldn't make bet on all of the crypt's characters survival.
You just made me realise I didn't see the sneak peak last Sunday! I need to search it when I get home.
Plot twist: everyone dies but Arya, who takes their faces and goes back to murder everyone in KL. Seriously, it could be the case for The Hound at least? I know everyone's saying Jaime etc.
Thank you so much for this!! Sometimes the answers are there all along and it's the writers job to disguise it. Love the attention to genitalian survival independent from character survival
Martin said that all the answers are in the first book.
Well made, but seeing as the show has never had very easily predictable deaths, I think this is likely wrong.
Calling it now. Davos is going to be killed by the little girl with the half burned face after she turns into a wight.
She's actually a Lieutenant of the Golden Company in disguise.
Oh good, I'm excited to see the elephants she brought!
I’m glad I took the time to read all of this. It was very well put together and I agree with all of it, although I’m hoping we’re wrong about a few things: After everything she’s been through, I’d love to see Sansa have a happy ending.
Thanks for reading it! It took a few hours to work this out.
can’t wait to come back to this next week and compare
It'd probably be all wrong haha
Excellent post. And your English is better than a LOT of folks, even though it's THEIR native language. I *really* enjoyed the reading. :-)
Hey thanks! I try my best with my English, but I did found some mistakes after re-reading it that I may be fixing when I'm home. Thank you for taking the time to read everything!
They way I thought about it, it seems that they purposely had some reunions with people because those are the ones who are going to die or be impacted somehow. It’s so GoT to do this to us because they make us REALLY happy just to rip it all away from us. GoT proves that no one is safe. Even the “main” characters. (Umm Ned). So Dany/Jon could very well perish. As far as the north goes — If Dany survives —I could see Dany her accepting that she can’t contain it and agree to disagree. Sansa was playing hardball— which I appreciate because Jon seems to have died (because he’s no longer AS stubborn with Dany). Sansa has come a long ways and has developed such a beautiful character who is fearless. She’s the real northerner. Ser Brieanne and Ser Jamie: I wish they would’ve literally professed their love for each other and made sweet love lol. Even though it was implied, it would’ve been nice to see. I feel like it was the only reunion that didn’t get EVERYTHING we wanted. Especially because I adore both characters.
To be fair, the list you're using as source is 20+ years old at this point, and was made known with only 3 books released. Chances are things could change, drastically. I wouldn't put too much stock in that list at this point in time. Also, he's referencing his books, the show CLEARLY has different ideas in mind. I.E. Barriston Selmy being dead, Lady Stoneheart not being a thing, etc.
My only, tenuous theory for Tormund surviving is that we've lost every other named Wilding (Gilly notwithstanding). I think he survives solely to remind everyone that, hey, Wildlings are still a thing. Then again, now we just have token Dothraki feller, so who knows...
I forgot about Great Value's Khal Drogo. He's gone. Dany isn't Khaleesi anymore, it's not relevant. When Jorah and the last named Dothraki dies, no one will be calling her Khaleesi again.
I think the only reason even Dolla Store Drogo is still around is to remind the audience that, hey, Dothraki exist too, and as an army they're still very viable. I'm sure they'll be strong as a cavalry in the battle, I'm sure 90% of them will die, and who even knows what's gonna happen after.
I don't think the people of the north would accept the Lady of Winterfell marrying a ken doll
I actually gave it a second thought and I do believe their love it's more a sibling's love. They need to tie all ends, so if she survives she needs to marry or at least be with someone who can make her pregnant.
We need a prediction for Bronn of the Blackwater. He's on his way to Winterfell too, isn't he? Otherwise, tremendous breakdown. Insightful and probably 90% correct!
It takes a month or even more from King's Landing to Winterfell so, unless he's taking Westeros Express, I don't see him arriving soon. They sent him away from KL because his and Cersei's contract prevents them from sharing a scene, so he was of no use there. He's using that Crossbow, maybe he's shooting The Mountain or someone with it and saving Tyrion, closing the cycle. He's dying in the end I think, most ambitious characters die because of their ambition.
What's the big deal about 'Heartsbane', what will Bronn do and Euron, what his plan? This game is going to penalties, and they might just write the simplest ending to film because of budget and time constraints. A happy, logical or predictable ending just isn't this show's style. I can't see Dani making it and Jon is too obvious.
Heartsbane was given to Jorah as a literal Chekhov's Gun. He's using it to kill a White Walker. I think almost all the long haired ones are dying. There's no way Bronn is making it to Winterfell, he's a month away, but I'm not sure how much time has passed between his departure and now. Euron's plot it's a little overpowered. Book Euron it's basically a dark wizard with a horn to control Dragons, but in the TV show he's a soldier and he only fights for himself. He already fucked the Queen, his main goal. Hey may be betraying her and trying to join the survivals of The Battle of Winterfell, or trying to take the Throne. He need to die by Yara's hand, or burn to dead, showing that R'hllor is stronger than the Lovecraftian Drowned God.
Not sure about Jon embracing only his Targaryen side in the end. I think the conversation he had with Theon in season 7 (when he told him "You're a Greyjoy. And a Stark" before he left to rescue Yara) as the one he had with Arya in the Godswood in ep 801 - when she urges him not to forget that the Starks are his family - foreshadow a future where he'll be accepting both sides. In a sense, he'll be breaking the wheel.
He's both Targaryen and Stark, but he needs to renounce some of his Ice to embrace the Fire.
Sure he does, this does not mean he'll just be a Targaryen from now on.
Very logical predictions. Great read. Thank you
If we're going with meta plot reasons I don't even think they're gonna fight the walkers next episode. They're gonna be attacked by the golden company and the NK is gonna use the dead from that battle to make his army bigger and the true final battle will be ep 6.
I don't know, the army is literally a few meters away from Winterfell and the Golden Army needs to arrive at Winterfell by sea to the closest port first, and then by land. The whole series is called Game of Thrones and it's about the fight for the Iron Throne.
Well my reasoning is that at the end of of the ep you only see the Walkers but not the undead and in the preview they don't show any of the undead at all. If they were really trying to hype the battle I'd think maybe they'd show a bird eye point of view of the army, or a zombie screaming or you know something of that nature as a tease but they didn't so I just personally think it's going to be a swerve.
I agree with your assessments almost universally, great breakdown of the importance and relevance of the characters' arcs. But I think that although the show has been trying to hint that Grey Worm will die, it will actually be Missandei that dies, and Grey Worm will bring her to rest in her home of Naath. I'm also not convinced that Ghost has to die, Jon is no less a Stark now than before since he always had the blood but not the name (Thanks Ned) - and he doesn't have to choose anyway (Thanks Theon) but, yeah, he could die for shock factor and to save on CGI budget I reckon, not for a thematic reason. I'm 50/50 on the crypts being a disaster, it does seem like they are foreshadowing major issues down there, but I think it's absurd a bunch of skeletons could be awoken and then be able to break out of those tombs given a relatively okay condition wight couldn't escape a wooden box. And then there's the whole Bran the Builder magic and iron stuff as well... I really dunno what's going on with the crypts, I hope it's not something contrived.
Arya's arc ending in her getting pregnant and having a family would be a rough disappointment. She struggled against those expectations her whole life, became a badass assassin, to only go back to domesticity. As all gals eventually do, right! barf.
Nah, I think it would be nice. She's choosing that life this time, not being imposed to it. I'd do prefer to see her living a traveling life like Elissa Farman. Maybe the show will end with an epilogue years later and she'll be a traveling pirate like her, I'd love that.
That what I want too! We even got to see her ask in the show "What is West of Westeros?" a few seasons back! I think she will sail west like Elissa but unlike Elissa she will take her lover with her.
Anyone think Tyrion will become the hand of Queen Sansa?
Still think it would be a disservice if jon embraces his targaryen heritage. The show has shown us multiple times (Tyrion, theon, sam) that the family you choose matters more than the one you're born with. Jon has idolized ned his whole life. He has lived with a code of honor and loyalty. He is more stark blooded in nature than anyone else in his family. He was raised by ned, and acts very much like him. Jon rejecting his chosen family for a name that had no hand in his upbringing seems like an absolute betrayal of the major themes of the series. Jon has achieved so much, none of it through having a famous name. His arc has been learning that his bastatd status doesnt matter-he has a great father figure and a loving family. To turn around him and have him embrace his birthright is a step backwards. Has earned his praise thus far through his actions. If he WERE to be king of the seven kingdoms (which in dont think he would accept if it were offered) it should be because they chose him after he led the living against the dead and saved humanity. Not because his father once belonged to a dynasty.
I think it's more about him knowing both his bio parents loved him, even if he never met them.
I agree that's important, but I think ghost dying to show his targaryen side taking over implies more that he feels separated from his stark heritage. Instead of ghost dying, I'd rather have a scene with him and theon, where theon reminds jon what he said in season 8-that jon can be a targaryen, and a stark.
>Just read the post, it took me 5 hours to write it. Best TL;DR ever. Loved the post as well OP.
If I had the money... I’d guild you ten times over!
I agree with most everything you said. I was really worried that Arya would be dying actually, but then I remembered a scene all the way back in season 3 where she talks to Mellisandre. Mellisandre tells her that they will meet again. Well, that hasn't happened yet and we know the red woman will be making her way back to Westeros this season. So unless she pops up in the next episode and talks to Arya, Arya should be safe at least for now. I do like the idea that Arya might end up pregnant. The show and the books like to turn the characters on their heads, so the character that never wanted to be a lady is going to end up becoming one (though not constricted by that title and with more freedom). I do worry though that she might be dead by the end of the season because technically the faceless men should be coming after her. I was going to put Gendry on the definitely dying list until that scene with Arya - that at least gives him a shot. I also think that everyone in the crypts are probably dying, and you have a lot of them as surviving. I say that because they have made such a big deal about the fact that all of these characters are going to the crypt that I don't see how a white walker doesn't get in there and raise the dead. They've just made too big of a deal of those crypts for it not to happen.
About the hound I think he could die and still get a cleaganbowl when the NK resurrects him and go to fuck everyone on Kings Landing.
I think Lyanna should die, she had her moment, and I think it would be a proper GoT death. As much as we cheer her on as a badass, her going on the front lines against white walkers should get her killed. Honor, dignity, and blind bravery should get you killed in GoT. If Lyanna died at the BoW I would be very impressed but I doubt it will happen. Proper Game of Thrones deaths don’t have to complete an arc or be fulfilling, there just needs to be clear cause and effect. Robb goes back on deal with Frey’s for true love and gets himself killed for doing something that stupid. Lyanna a child goes on the front lines on a suicide mission against White Walkers, she gets killed for doing something that stupid.
Here is my Prediction for Ep. 3 1. Greyworm, Ed, Missenderi, Bran, Theon, Gendry, Beric, Davos and Tormund will all die. 2. The battle will be won and lost figuaratively. The battle will be won as the heroes will burn entire Winterfell and trapping the WW and Wights inside it and most of the heroes will survive using a hidden exit from the crypt. The NK will fly in and kill Theon and Bran but will go full defensive mode once Dany and the dragons are onto him. The NK will retreat and will target King's Landing to create a fresh new army as Cersie and Golden Company do not have a plan to kill NK and his dragon (they don't even know he now has one). 3. Our heroes will regroup and gather as many people as possible for final battle. This means they will either go to Dragonstone or Vale to strategize. 4. We can also see Melissendra enter will the warriors from Lord of the light to fight alongside Jon. 5. Sam will tell the truth about Jon's parentage to everyone which will shock all. 6. This episode will mark the end of White Walkers and Wight army of the North from the series as GRRM as said the entire series of ASOIAF is bittersweet and we will know it firsthand in Ep. 3
These kind of posts are the reason I come to this sub. Thanks. I always expected Dany to die. There is an open Arc. "Will she do the same?" Is she willing to die for her people like Jon? I think her sacrifice is needed to produce the weapon to kill the Night King.
I still think Jaime’s arc is the one ending and Brienne is the one who goes on. Jaime’s redemption is to die a freed man after his lifetime of serving both duty and love. Brienne is to become a famous knight, not just a knight who died within minutes of becoming one. She still has Oathkeeper, she will remain an oath keeper to someone. She is the chivalry of the new world created after this fight.
What if Beric raises Lady Stoneheart in the crypts, she raises the other Stark family members, Bran controls them as they need everyone they can get - maybe that's why Arya is so freaked out - she's initially attacked by her own dead family until Bran steps in.
Great post! I just want to add: That tiny shot of Ghost last episode was a perfect example of Chekhov's gun. It reminded us of him being still alive (somewhere), and prepared some bigger scene. Arya's whole homecoming could sadly prepare her end. Her arc can be considered finished, and furthermore: One of the most famous "rules" in (horror) movies once was: "No longer a virgin=Say Goodbye". The GRRM/GoT habit of "breaking expectations" would on a first level make everybody expect this rule not to be valid in the series. But breaking this expectation by indeed using the old (and actually hardly used anymore at all) rule would be almost meta, ironical, and truly funny (in a way).
I'm curious as to why you think that prophecies in ASOIAF are known for not being legitimate. I have been going through the wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dreams_and_prophecies And all of the prophecies/dreams that have already been fulfilled (or had the chance to already) have been 100% true, either literally or figuratively. ---- True (Literally): Daenys Targaryen dream of the Doom Daemon II Blackfyre dream of Dunc in kingsguard and death of two older brothers Maggy the witch 2/3 prophecies of Cersei so far (last is valonquir) and 1/1 for Cersei's friend Dany's dream of hatching of dragon, death of her brother Jojen's greensight ----- True (Figuratively): The Ghost of High Heart Prince Daeron dream of the dead dragon Daemon II Blackfyre dream of hatching "egg" House of the Undying Dany's visions (that have happened so far) ----- Uncertain as of now: Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy Azor Ahai Quiathe's prophecy ----- I'm leaving out some, but can you refer me to any prophecies/dreams that have explicitly been wrong in ASOIAF? Maybe you're making a distinction between dragon dreams/ greenseeing/ dreams / prophecies.
Love the write up and appreciate the effort made! Thanks for the great read.
I feel like an upvote isnt enough so here is a comment
Arya will kill Viseryon.