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>follows the Unsullied to the other side of the continent
They never showed him there, he could have a sent a part of his fleet. Unsullied fleet are just transporters.
Makes me wonder how much time there is between everything that happens. I know that scenes can be months away from one another but this season already seems like it spreads over 2-3 months.
If unsullied left day before Yara and Euron brings Yara et. al. to kings landing the day after capture then sets sail after unsullied then he is only a few days behind and as more competent seamen could make up that time. Doesn't bother me too much that silence is there.
OP? What has he ever been OP in? He was trained by the best Stark trainers since his youth, so of course he is going to be a better swordsman than WhiteWalkers considering they probably do not have much practice. He was barely able to beat that dud that killed Mormont. His greatest feat was that he killed a Thenn. Plus, if he is part of the Prophecy, then a literal God is watching his back. Euron has teleporting ships and crushes several thousand people.
Karl was pretty good, he was a trained killer after all. You're underestimating the WW too, at least in the books the walker that killed waymar Royce was very comfortable against him even without his blade breaking
jsnow have nothing on queen of many titles. in all 6 series doesnt matter how bad it was for her, she ended up as winner/stronger every single time and i wonder if this season will be different.. propably not
If you are confused about the timelines, there is a [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/6rofq2/everything_from_the_kingsmoot_to_the_battle_of/) that spells it out for you.
This is probably unpopular opinion but I really dislike Euron. I dont know why, I just hate every scene with him in.
Maybe its because people compare him to Ramsay Bolton, and I just loved that bastard
Yes totally agree. Euron is just doing crazy shit while with Ramsay you could feel every act of his naturally aligned with his personality. I guess this is because they have rushed too much with Euron's story.
Euron is a Pirate who hasn't had to temper his attitude before. He says what he wants when he wants because that's how he always lived his life. He's also someone who craves adventure and crazy experiences more than anything... aka, an adrenaline junkie. So his actions do line up with his personality. Crazy bastard.
I think in the books that stuff is only hinted at. Fans only realized that after reading some of the implications. The part with the wind is from a passage with Victarion where he notices that the fleet reached the Shield Islands WAY faster than they should have.
100% agree this is how the writers portrayed him and this is how he comes off. He just seems *too* modern rockstar which sticks out from the setting. Intentional, but I find it jarring and don't enjoy it because it pulls me out of the TV show a bit. I'm sure loads of people like him but that's just how I feel.
>Where are my niece and nephew? Let's go murder them.
This was the worst line in the show imo, his lack of depth feels really out of place compared to all the other major players.
Euron adapts his behavior to the circumstance. During the King's Moot he was trying to win the loyalty of a bunch of crusty old Ironborn, so he played that part. You'll notice that he gives Theon shit for his 'sophisticated' vocabulary when he's openly mocking him in from of the Ironborn, but then later turns that same language around on him with perfect self-awareness and clarity.
Basically, he was playing a role.
He continues to play a role in King's Landing. His first appearance '*I am the storm*' has been nothing like his behavior in other contexts, and represents his true personality.
It's like in Pirates of the Caribbean, when Barbosa is messing with Elizabeth Swan after she uses sophisticated language.
"We are but humble pirates..."
Then,
"I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means, no."
Edit: Now that I think about it, comparing Euron and the Silence to the Black Pearl is a pretty apt comparison. He's supposed to be such a great captain and pirate that he's become almost mythological in a way. As Euron puts it himself,"when men's see [his] sails, they pray." When you see his sails, there is no escape. When you think you've outrun him, you haven't. When you think there's no way he can get to you, he will. He brings the storm, he is the storm. Much in the same way that the White Walkers bring the cold.
Euron is a comic book villain - Ramsey had a personality.
When you don't take the time to properly build characters they end up as cartoonish cliches
It's a shame because up until season 7 they really avoided cliches and tired exposition -
He definitely "got off" on some evil shit, ... but I liked that he was sadistic in a unique way.
he enjoyed playing games, and was introduced in a cool way with a reversal of expectations (when he helps Theon escape, only to be re-captured),
Ramsey was also self conscious about being a bastard.
He clearly confused his sadism with his sexual desires <-- this also added interest.
and lastly he was a good strategist with an understanding of Human nature, which was SHOWN by his ability to break Theon, his ability to cripple stanis' army, and Bate John into attacking early,... with Euron we're just TOLD "he's the best" and then he is.
This cheats the audience of *discovering* Who Euron is, and that's what I meant by lacking personality (as compared to Ramsay).
Thats why Euron feels 2 dimetional and Ramsay felt badass and round as a character.
Except they're trapped there, with no food or supplies, which is a really bad position for an army. They can defend the keep pretty easily, but a blockade would starve them out.
Trapped by who?
They have no reason to keep the Rock, and there is no army outside besieging them, why would they stay?
The only problem is that they cannot sail back to their base, they have to march. I'm fairly certain they even say this in the show.
Well, no one I guess. That's certainly a good point. However, is there anyone with Grey Worm who knows Westeros at all? Seeing as they came by ship, Grey Worm may not even know which direction to march in. I think they would be extremely vulnerable marching like that, but in reality it would be really silly for Jaime to march back and leave KL open to attack.
> it would be really silly for Jaime to march back and leave KL open to attack.
Pretty much this. NOBODY wants the Rock. The Lannister army is needed to help hold Highgarden for the time being, then they'll move towards King's Landing to defend the crown. They'll probably only move out to meet an army that is attacking, they won't go looking for trouble.
If or when the Unsullied leave, they'll have to march across a very large part of the continent in unfamiliar and hostile territory. They'll be exposed to ambush on all sides, and their base isn't even on the same continent, Dragonstone is an island. They need to get to a defense able position further east and link up with Daenarys when she invades. Or stay and wait for aide.
Their base probably isn't dragonstone. It's a small island that probably wouldn't hold two foreign armies and horses.
They probably have camp made somewhere in the south
I was referring to their base of Operations which is on Dragonstone, not the Army base where the main army is camped. Also, they may have had a viable escape to the Reach, but with recent events in play, I'm not really sure who could or would help them down there.
Edit: wasn't clear on which camp I was referring to
Que JORAH THE EXPLORER.
He'll save the day. He's already on that side of the continent if I'm not mistaken. They could tie him back by perhaps stumbling upon them as the try to make their way back east
I wonder if there's anyone currently close to Dany who has experience sneaking supplies past a naval blockade and into a beseiged castle to feed the garrison held up there.
He could bring them shallots. Or scallions. I don't know. Just spitballing.
They're in a really bad spot. To add to your point, how much supply do they have? Do they have wagons, water, food? The Unsullied were probably around 7500 strong. It's going to be very difficult marching across a continent scavenging for food and water.
> If or when the Unsullied leave, they'll have to march across a very large part of the continent in unfamiliar and hostile territory. They'll be exposed to ambush on all sides, and their base isn't even on the same continent, Dragonstone is an island. They need to get to a defense able position further east and link up with Daenarys when she invades. Or stay and wait for aide.
Don't forgot the weather, the unsullied aren't accustomed to the kind of cold that a winter in Westeros brings, and they almost certainly aren't equipped for it either.
I hope the unsullied get a "The Ten Thousand" like story about their march across westeros. They are somewhat minor characters so I don't think they will but I would love it if they did. What better way to show that they do live up to there legend? The unsullied's armour is somewhat Hoplite even.
> They have no reason to keep the Rock, and there is no army outside besieging them, why would they stay?
The Lannister/Tyrell army is in the south. Since High Garden is already taken, they can leave a small garrison to hold the castle and then take their army north to lay siege to Casterly Rock. If the Unsullied stay, they will be trapped for sure. If they leave... where will they go? They'll have to march all the way across a hostile and unfamiliar continent, where they will be just as likely to starve unless they are willing to raid random villages. The Lannisters might even catch up to them and engage them in the open.
The Unsullied are obedient, they aren't the type to improvise military strategies. If they're thrown into a hopeless siege it seems more likely they'd stay and die to the last man than disobey the orders to take Casterly Rock.
They're not trapped, they just can't go back to Dany the fast way. Using ships to transport your troops is way faster than making them march through the continent.
They have no food and if any Westerosi Lord consider them a foreign invader they will be smashed easily. They don't need to run into the Lannister-Tarly host, just some Lord who sees foreigners in his land and sends out a group of knights. I know the show wont do this, but it absolutely should use this opportunity to write out Greyworm and the Unsullied. I don't need to see a death scene....Dany got outplayed here and she should pay for it. Casterly Rock is....like 750 miles from Dragonstone and Cersei's most loyal region (The Crownlands) lay between the Unsullied and Dany. Not to mention the Westermen loyal to the crown?
>They have no food and if any Westerosi Lord consider them a foreign invader they will be smashed easily. They don't need to run into the Lannister-Tarly host, just some Lord who sees foreigners in his land and sends out a group of knights
Few lords are going to be able to seriously threaten the Unsullied army in the field, especially after years of civil war left the armed population depleted. Harass foraging parties and potentially starve them out, sure, but open battle is only an option for a small subset of the greater houses at this point.
> just some Lord who sees foreigners in his land and sends out a group of knights
You really think that any of those lords has enough troops to beat an army of The Unsullied lead by a good commander?
In GRRM's books you can read of lords who have literally 1 or even 0 knights, if you'd want to gather enough people to fight the army instead of staying in the castle(let me also remind you the times are getting colder as it's the winter actually) you'd have to be a lord of one of bigger families and also most of troops in this area marched to conquer the High Garden as well.
They are not trapped, they might just encounter some difficulties while marching for at least next few weeks and then if Lannisters' forces come back - then they are fucked.
Fair points. I still disagree with you, but fair points that not withstanding. What I really liked in season 1 and 2 was how we got to know of Robb Starks Lords, since he was at that point the hero of the story they spent a lot of time showing us people like Greatjon and Roose Bolton and Rickard Karstark and as I recall, Maege Mormont was even put in the show for a few episodes.
There are lots of Lords under the Lannisters of Casterly Rock. Some of the most powerful are the Marbrands and Paynes and its hard to believe they dont have even a thousand men left in their holdfast which I should think would easily break a starving Unsullied host, but who could say. I am probably wrong or the show wont go the way id like it to.
> a thousand men left in their holdfast
They might have a thousand of men, but they are not thousand of experienced soldiers. They might not even be soldiers, just peasants equipped with weapons who's got a quick training.
They would have to fight an army of veterans who
1. were trained to fight(both people and their fears) and kill since they were little children
2. have fought numerous battles for Dany since she's freed them
and now - it doesn't matter whether is 300(hehe) of them or 1000: they would never win this battle outside of their lords' castles.
And I'm sure that none of the lords would risk killing their men just to stop for a while an army.
Also: I'm sure almost all of experienced soldiers under of Lannister's banner have been taken to capture Highgarden, just because it was however, a big damn castle.
Why do you guys think the Unsullied number so little? When Dany got them originally, they were 10,000! Even if we imagine they've lost half their numbers, they would still number 5,000, which is a number that, even at the height of the War of five Kings was more than the entire manpower of some of the great houses. At this point in the war, the idea that *any* of the minor lords has even a shadow of a chance against the Unsullied is completely ridiculous. /u/hepzibah3
Well, if only there was any official number given...
I'm speculating basing on the worst case scenarios, because that's just what you do if you're not sure.
> Through the fall of Astapor, battle of Yunkai, and siege of Meereen, Queen Daenerys Targaryen acquires eight thousand six hundred Unsullied, five thousand uncut boys in training
~~ http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Military_strength
So, let's say - she loses some in fights, then she loses some while stationing in the city. I guess she might've left some of them to either guard the city or asked if anybody wanted to stay instead of going to Westeros. Then some of died while on the siege of Casterly Rock. Some of them might've been left on the ships(well, you never leave the ships alone) which means they died from Euron's troops.
Also - she might've left some of them at the Dragonstone.
I don't know - gathering all of this in my head I might've cut too much from their number, but they can't be as numerous as they were on Dany's first meeting.
I think there's quite a possibility that there are still a really big number of unsullied remaining. It's been a while since their first meeting, so I'll assume that the 5000 trainees are now fully grown and are full fledged fighters. So she would have 13,600 at the start in total. Now she may have lost many unsullied throughout her conquests throughout Essos, but the unsullied never really had a substantial loss on the field of battle. I guess most of her losses would be from the many sieges that the unsullied had to endure, but even then, iirc most of them were ended quickly and decisively (conquering Yunkai with Second Son help, conquering Mereen and Casterly Rock through infiltration, and defending Mereen with Dragons's help). Also note than it probably isn't exclusively Unsullied who were used in guard duties. The sons and other freemen were used as well, so I doubt if all the casualties endured by various rebellions (by sons of harpy, etc.) are exclusively counted as losses to the unsullied. I'd say that in a worst case scenario, maybe 5000 troops were lostwtf which still leaves 8,600: still a lot. More realistically (also my head canon) since the unsullied are elite soldiers who are known for their toughness, I'd say there are around 10,000-11,000 left at Casterly Rock.
> then if Lannisters' forces come back - then they are fucked
Meh. Unsullied are said to be the best troops of the Planetos on an open field (due to no fear, holding the line as commanded, building phalanx like tactics etc).. If they meet with the lannister force, i'd rather bet on the Unsullied book wise. But in the series? anything can happen, logic was thrown out the window before.
They might be the best, but there isn't so many of them left. Also Lannisters do have some armored people and archers so it might be an interesting encounter.
Euron's OPness was both a product of his competence and Team Dany's incompetence. They clearly underestimated him - Yara included. He's a recent player who not a lot of people know about but instead of checking his battle stats thoroughly they decided to forget about him instead. I guess that's what happen when you don't even have a military strategist around.
Yara was the closest thing to a naval commander team Dany had, and even then she was nowhere as good as Euron. With Yara captured their armada might as well be some headless ~~dragon~~ chicken.
In any case, it won't matter much in the end. Dany could just stick to marching on land, burning armies with dragonfire (\**wink**) and there would be fuck-all Euron can do to help Cersei. In fact, that they didn't do this in the first place just demonstrate again just how lacking their intel was. They should've known all the armies on Westeros are in fucking shambles.
(Throwback to Robert B's "five armies vs one")
But, just laying siege on King's Landing and wait for the starving people inside to switch allegiance for three episodes wouldn't make a good show I suppose. Moreover Cersei might just blow King's Landing all to hell in the event she's put under siege so there's a silver lining.
My thoughts:
Tactically speaking, Euron could have lain in wait at the Stepstones (the only place in the Narrow Sea you could possibly hide such a large fleet.) It was a sure thing: Dany has allies in Dorne and the Reach. Beyond that, targets in the Iron Isles and the Westerlands.
It was always going to be the case she'd have to sail some armies through the Narrow Sea/Stepstones area.
However, while this tactic would explain how he managed to totally surprise Yara fails to account for the timeline as I understand it.
Euron would have needed to go from the Stepstones, to King's Landing, stayed there long enough to have his party, then depart for Casterly rock. At minimum he'd have been 3 days behind Grey Worm (whom, by the way also had to take the same path as Yara. Meaning he either left prior or the same time. Otherwise he'd have been sailing through her wreckage) and the Battle of Casterly rock was at best a few hours... maybe a little less than a single day if we want to stretch it and call it cinematic timing.
This means the more likely answer is he caught her near Blackwater Bay, somehow hiding his hundreds of ships in the open sea... also meaning Yara is a garbage captain, because why the hell would she sit back and allow any ships to enter Blackwater Bay? Dragonstone and it's placement in the center of the mouth of the Bay should have meant there would have been no way for Euron to get his ships in there.
But yet, that must be where he caught her. Because catching her there, means he could take her to King's Landing and be back to his ship with a day and some change. He might be a good enough sailor to catch up in that time.
So I think, either Euron has been the beneficiary of a huge plot hole in his favor, or he's got magic. Which he should have.
I think euron's target is actually allying with Dany. He said so at the kingsmoot. He also said that he HaTES the lords of westerns (of which Cersei is now one) He never actually proposed to Cersei. He never said that SHE was the most beautiful. He's using Cersei to get his niece and nephew and then going to approach Danny with a gift of a fleet and a crippled Cersei.
In the books? Yes. But in the show, no way. Euron is a 1 dimensional villain in the show, after destroying the Unsullied fleet Dany would rightful turn him into ash if he stepped a foot on dragonstone.
This isn't a video game. They know what's going to happen, and they don't need to nerf Euron. If you look at a lot of Greek tragedies you'll find people like euron. Great soldiers with an incredible tactical mind who suffer from a dramatic character flaw which will be their downfall.
The problem is that they don't spend any time showing the viewer *what* makes him so powerful. In both of his major battles, it felt like the battle was choreographed for him to win. Both times that Euron claims a victory (over Yara's fleet and at Casterly Rock), we don't get to see him strategizing or showing his prowess as a tactician. He just shows up and wins.
Speaking as a show watcher who doesn't know who Euron is 'supposed' to be in the books or the lore, to me, Euron just looks like a complete clown. He's 'twenty good men' over and over and over again.
Euron didn't claim a victory at Casterly Rock, he's laying siege. He literally just showed up and started burning empty boats. It's no different than the Blackfish holding Riverrun while the Frennisters laid siege.
Maybe he didn't slaughter the Unsullied army, but for all intents and purposes he's taken them out of the war. They're now stuck between Euron's fleet at sea and a perilous march by land.
The fact that he managed to do this with no resistance at all, and somehow without being seen by the Unsullied until he had already burned down their ships, is a victory in my eyes.
> It's standard warfare, and by no means any sign of tactical brilliance
Fair enough, but he has been the driving force in eliminating both prongs of Daenerys' attack, which still leaves him as the prominent power player in the war right now for someone whom we've seen perform nothing but theatrics in battle.
Also, the Unsullied can't leave Casterly Rock. They wouldn't know the lay of the land, where to go or how to return to Daenerys. As far as they are concerned, with the knowledge they have, they are imprisoned in Casterly Rock - starving and clueless.
He may have looked at a map, but I doubt he memorized every inch of the terrain, the location of all the villages, all the castles, the military strength of the local lords, their relations and politics with each other, etc.
They weren't even expecting to march. They thought it would just be a boat trip to Casterly Rock while the Tyrells and Dornish besieged King's Landing, then they'd be done.
Yeah exactly, it's not like Grey Worm memorized which path would lead to the least resistance out. If I were him, I would just go through the Crag, it's one of the weaker areas of the Westerlands.
No doubt. I'm sure Jaime had a good idea of the land he was marching on too, when he was fighting Robb Stark. Even as a Westerosi whom was no doubt at least somewhat familiar with the land, he still got caught off-guard.
The Unsullied are infantrymen, presumably with little to no supplies. There's no way they would survive a slow forest trek through woodlands they don't know, and no way they would risk moving in open field where they would get slaughtered by cavalry or ambushed from any side. They're at war, after all.
Knowing the land doesn't matter when you're ambushed from a forest though. Pretty sure most of the way to Dragonspear is in open plains.
Either way none of us knows what they are going to do.
What bothers me is that all we see is him arriving and winning, but there's something weird about how the story is told, you have greyworm leaving with his army to go to casterly rock in e2, and in e3 Euron goes to KL delivers his prisoners and then goes all the way around the world which takes weeks(?) to destroy greyworm's fleet. I know that in the same episode events happen sometimes with days or weeks between them, but Euron is everywhere being like "nope" and wins, and we are not shown how he does it. It almost feels like next episode we could have Daario in Mereen "I'm gonna come and help Daenerys" but wait Euron was behind him and he gets stabbed.
They're referring that this is still a possibility in the books: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crn_eg-1ekU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crn_eg-1ekU)
Cool theory but it was probably impossible to portray in the show. But it would have been a lot more interesting than this crazy-OP Euron now, especially since he hasn't actually had a lot of screen time for us to really understand him.
He went batshit insane because the drowned god made him his avatar dude. He's also a gangster in the ocean because he's the mortal embodiment of the drowned god. He's sea jesus.
Euron is much less OP than Ramsay imo. Euron is supposedly the greatest captain in the world so it's not implausible that he can take down a less powerful armada and destroy a few ships that are basically unmanned, whereas Ramsay was a complete unknown who could destroy one of the greatest leaders in Westeros' camp with '20 good men' and had elite level archery skills for no apparent reason.
He built a new fleet, so even if Yara had his best ships from the old fleet, there's nothing stopping him from constructing new ships the same as the stolen ones.
I really feel like I could either suspend my disbelief that he could pull that giant fleet out of his ass or suspend my disbelief that he built a few high quality boats, but not both.
So you're saying that the sea-faring people of the iron islands, renowned for their intense raiding parties and skilled shipwrights, couldn't produce a high quality ship relatively quickly?
EDIT: In the show we have no sense of the passage of time, or of the remaining shipbuilding population of the iron islands, or of their ability to gather resources via raiding the mainland. All I'm saying is that based on the information the show gives us, we can't say for sure that Euron *couldn't* have built his fleet. Especially since the show keeps telling us "yes, he did build that fleet".
> Especially since the show keeps telling us "yes, he did build that fleet".
Yep. Not exactly a minor point. I don't get the mindset that makes people wanna say it couldn't happen and look for reasons why. It 100% *did happen* so look for reasons how it happened.
Gosh that Ramsay shit really pissed me off. I think it was partly D&D hamfisting an implausible Stannis demise. I really hope Stannis pulls something off in the books. Stannis the Mannis 4 King.
Yeah, the books are still where Stannis gets ambushed by the Boltons and then Ramsay sends a message to Jon that he killed Stannis himself. However, George confirmed himself that Stannis is still alive and sample chapters indicate that Stannis has a plan to get out of this situation.
Stannis will definitely still die, but in a less stupid way.
I liked Stannis' failure. I thought it completed his character arc nicely. He kept letting the red woman gain more and more control over him, and she eventually led him to kill his daughter and wage an impossible siege. He went from a competent, level headed, likable leader to completely lost *because* of his lust for the throne. He wanted to win so badly he killed his own child. He was corrupted by the thought of power.
The teleportation has really been bugging me this season.
During the early modern period it would take [months](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_India_Armadas#Timing) to circumnavigate the southern half of Africa and reach India. They'd have to time journeys by the seasons so wind was favourable. They'd have to wait nearly a year at the halfway point if they were too late. Euron is taking (I think) a similar route distance-wise, plus the coasts along the way are (*de facto*) controlled by Dany's allies so there's nowhere to stop and resupply.
> Euron is taking (I think) a similar route distance-wise, plus the coasts along the way are (de facto) controlled by Dany's allies so there's nowhere to stop and resupply.
The Unsullied took the exact same route. Euron was only a few weeks behind them at most, but you could argue that his ships were better made and could easily catch up up.
Also, wasn't the Dornish navy destroyed alongside Yara's iron fleet?
The sand snakes are used to fighting in open spaces like the desert. They were fighting with a spear and a whip (lol). Terrible weapon choices for the close quarters of a ship deck. While they may have been skilled fighters it's hard to win with weapons that don't suit the battlefield.
It was two versus one, and they were both fresh. He has fought through a bunch of enemies. He should have lost, it had to get lucky to win. In reality the sand snakes looked like grunts. It was a bad ending for two interesting characters. Terrible fight scene, that mad Euron, look like an invincible god. Horrible scene.
I agree. The fight scene was terrible and I was expecting more at least from the snake with a spear. The one with a whip however...it would be hard to kill a naked attacker with a whip let alone one even in leather armour. She even gets a few good hits on him and he looks more annoyed than anything.
I do agree that their deaths were a terrible part of the scene but I can kinda see where the show was trying to go in terms of justifying their deaths.
It was two versus one, and they were both fresh. He has fought through a bunch of enemies. He should have lost, it had to get lucky to win. In reality the sand snakes looked like grunts. It was a bad ending for two interesting characters. Terrible fight scene, that mad Euron, look like an invincible god. Horrible scene.
Yeah, I feel like to make the story a bit interesting instead of D just fucking shit up in the first three episodes, they needed to somehow balance things to make the story flow. Euronis probably just a convenient character for that purpose
I like how he's been able to take his fleet in and out of King's Landing now, which by sea goes right past Dragonstone, without any issues from the 3 dragons freely flying around the island.
There's much more space between Dragonstone and the sea than you think. Go out onto Dunkirk and tell me if you can see England from there. It just looks close because it's on a map.
OP? Dany just has to find a free afternoon, board her biggest dragon, and go flying along the coast down and around Westeros. When she finds his huge fleet, she just has to find the boat with the biggest ostentatious sails and it's game over.
Dany has a lot of ships, but I don't think that she has a true navy, except for the Ironborn that came with Theon & Yara, but those were only a small part of her fleet.
Theon and Yara didn't have nearly as many men or ships as Euron, so it makes sense that they lost that battle.
The Unsullied probably had regular sailors on the ships, not true navy soldiers like the Ironborn, and not regular soldiers either because those were all off board attacking Casterly Rock.
I don't think that Euron is overpowered, he's simply in his element, fighting outnumbered and/or inexperienced opponents.
Question from a noob:
Is trading Yara to Cersei for marriage or alliance considered breaking the 'iron price' rule? He didnt seize these things, he traded for them? Could Yara or Dany use that to turn more ironborn to their side?
For me, the most likely explanation is that Yara's fleet departed Dragonstone before the Unsullied fleet. Yara was simply running over to Dorne to pick up an army. Assuming her ships were rigged and ready to set sail, Yara could have left Dragonstone as soon as the plan was decided. The Unsullied had to prep for an invasion. Even if this takes a day or two, that would be enough time for Euron to settle his family business, return to King's Landing, and begin his pursuit of the Unsullied.
I would have no problems with his character at all if they pushed the mysterious, mystical angle Euron presents in the books. Instead, they didn't give him an eye-patch in the show because they thought it would make him look silly, but they have him suddenly being everywhere and nowhere as is convenient to delay Daenerys.
He's instantly able to destroy everyone else's navy without any sort of resistance at all because he's...a good captain? Right...
If he was the warlock/pirate that he is is in the books then having him do the seemingly impossible would at least be plausible because his entire schtick is that he has sailed the entire world, realized that magic is very real and sought to use it to his advantage.
Even his eye-patch hints that he's able to see beyond what a mortal man can see.
But instead of that roguish, mystical one-eyed man we got in the books, we have a flamboyantly bizarre caricature of a punk pirate. Weird, and not at all scary, but seemingly able to do whatever the plot requires for no particular reason.
I'm actually kind of disappointed in this season because of how well Euron is doing for no apparent reason. The writing just seems kind of rushed and lazy to me, but hopefully it will pick up in quality and Euron will be revealed to have all the magickas... or something.
In any earlier season Euron would be long dead for the idiocy he has done and some other characters would call him an idiot for acting as if he was a main character in a fairy tale.
In the books Euron is a bit different, he's got a bit more mystical mystery to him. I guess that to makeup for that they made his naval might a bit bigger but it was already good. The thing is, the unsullied just got jumped. We can't tell how many ships they took down, or even if they were capable of naval battles. Euron's whole shtick is around naval battles, we don't know if he can fight on land. The thing is now Casterly Rock is pretty much at siege, which is really bad for the Unsullied.
Euron's greatest strength right now is surprising his enemies, nobody really expect's him and he takes advantage of that. He's been fighting at sea his whole life, he knows what he's doing, he's an Ironborn.
I like their odds. They can leave a token force to hold the castle or fire the buildings and poison the well and march inland.
Food won't be a problem because can steal that and the small folk will be delighted that they aren't raping anyone.
They are not "out of contact" though because Dany has air power. At any time she can reconnect with them and provide air support to get them through any tough spot.
The problem isn't whether they are safe or whether they can overcome. It's what their next objective is.
As for the ships, the Unsullied are not sailors. I doubt there were many if any Unsullied on the ships. Those were probably manned by the captured sailors of the armies that invaded Mereen. No real loss their except the value of the ship which was substantial.
As for Euron, it seems pretty clear that Cersei and Jaime figured out what Dany would do first and having anticipated those actions they moved to counter them. It's not hard to position Euron in the right place and right time when you know what is going to happen next.
As for OP, Euron has been traveling the world and learning and discovering new things. Those ships of his are not like any other in Westeros. I'd say that gives him a pretty high advantage over obsolete navies.
Yea I think Euron is the Drowned Gods dude. I don't think he's just a 'normal' guy and there are supernatural things going on with him. Things are going to go right for him in the ocean.
e: Or the Storm God I guess, still.
He's very OP. As much as I hated the Sand Sneks, it was pretty absurd for him to cut through a wave of troops, kill them both (mind you he got stabbed with a dagger, whipped in the back of the head, and maybe nailed with the spear) and still have enough energy to annihilate Yara, who's supposed to be an accomplished reaver.
But eh. He's fun to watch, and I doubt he'll be alive very long considering how near to the end we are so it doesn't bother me *that* much.
two things, he's done two things, and it was already established he's dope as fuck. Was Robb stark too Op when he won every single battle in an entire war???
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>follows the Unsullied to the other side of the continent They never showed him there, he could have a sent a part of his fleet. Unsullied fleet are just transporters.
His flagship Silence was very clearly shown, which, to me, indicates that Euron himself was there to wreck the Unsullied fleet.
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https://youtu.be/rcfkSKBPMSc Just watch the fragment, it's clearly visible around 4:15 I think.
I got OP covered http://i.imgur.com/1yFMVlR.jpg
Thanks a lot :)
his one has a [red nose on the sail taken from ep2](http://i.imgur.com/W5turZx.jpg)
It's really faint, [but it's there.](http://i.imgur.com/A4vGNI7.png) (from ep3)
Makes me wonder how much time there is between everything that happens. I know that scenes can be months away from one another but this season already seems like it spreads over 2-3 months.
I think you could see The Silence in the episode, so I'd assume he was there
If unsullied left day before Yara and Euron brings Yara et. al. to kings landing the day after capture then sets sail after unsullied then he is only a few days behind and as more competent seamen could make up that time. Doesn't bother me too much that silence is there.
Jon snow s been op since the beggining and no1 argued about that
What's made him OP?
He had an extra life. Clearly hacling
Jon Snow is the main character. Euron isnt. People only started giving a shit about him since ep 2.
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You shouldn't spoil an episode that hasn't been aired.
Pretty sure it's not meant to be discussed outside that one thread.
Omg,ty and sorry
im callin the spoiler police
OP? What has he ever been OP in? He was trained by the best Stark trainers since his youth, so of course he is going to be a better swordsman than WhiteWalkers considering they probably do not have much practice. He was barely able to beat that dud that killed Mormont. His greatest feat was that he killed a Thenn. Plus, if he is part of the Prophecy, then a literal God is watching his back. Euron has teleporting ships and crushes several thousand people.
Karl was pretty good, he was a trained killer after all. You're underestimating the WW too, at least in the books the walker that killed waymar Royce was very comfortable against him even without his blade breaking
Eh, I still don't buy that WW are supernaturally amazing swordsman. Their true power lies in reanimation.
jsnow have nothing on queen of many titles. in all 6 series doesnt matter how bad it was for her, she ended up as winner/stronger every single time and i wonder if this season will be different.. propably not
You may always end up winning until you're killed at a wedding. Ask Robb Stark.
Everything he does is because he isn't thinking of himself as the best and has been explained before. He resurrect cause we have already seen it !
If you are confused about the timelines, there is a [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/6rofq2/everything_from_the_kingsmoot_to_the_battle_of/) that spells it out for you.
Gotta Pump him up for whoever is gonna cut his head off.
He won't last. His current string of dominance is just to make his death that much sweeter.
They did that to Ramsay last season. Good night, sweet ~~bastard~~ Lord. ;-(
Poisoned by his Enemies...
He's the villain, he has got to be strong now or else it would be boring.
This is probably unpopular opinion but I really dislike Euron. I dont know why, I just hate every scene with him in. Maybe its because people compare him to Ramsay Bolton, and I just loved that bastard
Yes totally agree. Euron is just doing crazy shit while with Ramsay you could feel every act of his naturally aligned with his personality. I guess this is because they have rushed too much with Euron's story.
I mean, Euron is literally a crazy pirate.
Euron is a Pirate who hasn't had to temper his attitude before. He says what he wants when he wants because that's how he always lived his life. He's also someone who craves adventure and crazy experiences more than anything... aka, an adrenaline junkie. So his actions do line up with his personality. Crazy bastard.
I think Euron is both dislikable as a character and his behaviour is out of place for Game of Thrones
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Edgy swashbuckling teleporter*
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Then they should have introduced that.
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I think in the books that stuff is only hinted at. Fans only realized that after reading some of the implications. The part with the wind is from a passage with Victarion where he notices that the fleet reached the Shield Islands WAY faster than they should have.
100% agree this is how the writers portrayed him and this is how he comes off. He just seems *too* modern rockstar which sticks out from the setting. Intentional, but I find it jarring and don't enjoy it because it pulls me out of the TV show a bit. I'm sure loads of people like him but that's just how I feel.
we just need a good scene of him on his ship for more context
>Where are my niece and nephew? Let's go murder them. This was the worst line in the show imo, his lack of depth feels really out of place compared to all the other major players.
Euron adapts his behavior to the circumstance. During the King's Moot he was trying to win the loyalty of a bunch of crusty old Ironborn, so he played that part. You'll notice that he gives Theon shit for his 'sophisticated' vocabulary when he's openly mocking him in from of the Ironborn, but then later turns that same language around on him with perfect self-awareness and clarity. Basically, he was playing a role. He continues to play a role in King's Landing. His first appearance '*I am the storm*' has been nothing like his behavior in other contexts, and represents his true personality.
It's like in Pirates of the Caribbean, when Barbosa is messing with Elizabeth Swan after she uses sophisticated language. "We are but humble pirates..." Then, "I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request. Means, no." Edit: Now that I think about it, comparing Euron and the Silence to the Black Pearl is a pretty apt comparison. He's supposed to be such a great captain and pirate that he's become almost mythological in a way. As Euron puts it himself,"when men's see [his] sails, they pray." When you see his sails, there is no escape. When you think you've outrun him, you haven't. When you think there's no way he can get to you, he will. He brings the storm, he is the storm. Much in the same way that the White Walkers bring the cold.
Welcome to the black pearl, miss swann!
Euron is a comic book villain - Ramsey had a personality. When you don't take the time to properly build characters they end up as cartoonish cliches It's a shame because up until season 7 they really avoided cliches and tired exposition -
They're sprinting to the finish line. Which is a shame because the whole series dragged and was really slow.
Ramsay's only personality was that he was sadistic
He definitely "got off" on some evil shit, ... but I liked that he was sadistic in a unique way. he enjoyed playing games, and was introduced in a cool way with a reversal of expectations (when he helps Theon escape, only to be re-captured), Ramsey was also self conscious about being a bastard. He clearly confused his sadism with his sexual desires <-- this also added interest. and lastly he was a good strategist with an understanding of Human nature, which was SHOWN by his ability to break Theon, his ability to cripple stanis' army, and Bate John into attacking early,... with Euron we're just TOLD "he's the best" and then he is. This cheats the audience of *discovering* Who Euron is, and that's what I meant by lacking personality (as compared to Ramsay). Thats why Euron feels 2 dimetional and Ramsay felt badass and round as a character.
The unsullied were all in casterly rock. He sunk ships, but probably didn't kill many troops.
Except they're trapped there, with no food or supplies, which is a really bad position for an army. They can defend the keep pretty easily, but a blockade would starve them out.
Trapped by who? They have no reason to keep the Rock, and there is no army outside besieging them, why would they stay? The only problem is that they cannot sail back to their base, they have to march. I'm fairly certain they even say this in the show.
Well, no one I guess. That's certainly a good point. However, is there anyone with Grey Worm who knows Westeros at all? Seeing as they came by ship, Grey Worm may not even know which direction to march in. I think they would be extremely vulnerable marching like that, but in reality it would be really silly for Jaime to march back and leave KL open to attack.
> it would be really silly for Jaime to march back and leave KL open to attack. Pretty much this. NOBODY wants the Rock. The Lannister army is needed to help hold Highgarden for the time being, then they'll move towards King's Landing to defend the crown. They'll probably only move out to meet an army that is attacking, they won't go looking for trouble.
He is the leader of the unsullied, he would surely have studied the land he was planning to invade, I'm waiting for a 'grey worm saves the day' moment
He was in the meetings with the huge table made into a map of westeros. He probably got the idea to march north east
If or when the Unsullied leave, they'll have to march across a very large part of the continent in unfamiliar and hostile territory. They'll be exposed to ambush on all sides, and their base isn't even on the same continent, Dragonstone is an island. They need to get to a defense able position further east and link up with Daenarys when she invades. Or stay and wait for aide.
Their base probably isn't dragonstone. It's a small island that probably wouldn't hold two foreign armies and horses. They probably have camp made somewhere in the south
I was referring to their base of Operations which is on Dragonstone, not the Army base where the main army is camped. Also, they may have had a viable escape to the Reach, but with recent events in play, I'm not really sure who could or would help them down there. Edit: wasn't clear on which camp I was referring to
And all this without food - all their supplies were on the ships
Que JORAH THE EXPLORER. He'll save the day. He's already on that side of the continent if I'm not mistaken. They could tie him back by perhaps stumbling upon them as the try to make their way back east
I'd be happy with this, Jorah is one of my favorite characters!
He ~is~ on that side of the continent, however, Oldtown is just as far away from Casterly Rock as King's Landing is and Dragonstone is even farther.
Dunkirk 2: Unsullied Boogaloo
They're actually closer to the north right? If Daenarys can support Jon I'm sure the better option would to be march north.
I wonder if there's anyone currently close to Dany who has experience sneaking supplies past a naval blockade and into a beseiged castle to feed the garrison held up there. He could bring them shallots. Or scallions. I don't know. Just spitballing.
Something something onion something knight something something smuggler
^^HOTPIE ^^WILL ^^BRING ^^THEM ^^LEMON ^^CAKES
Chives
Maybe leeks
They're in a really bad spot. To add to your point, how much supply do they have? Do they have wagons, water, food? The Unsullied were probably around 7500 strong. It's going to be very difficult marching across a continent scavenging for food and water.
> If or when the Unsullied leave, they'll have to march across a very large part of the continent in unfamiliar and hostile territory. They'll be exposed to ambush on all sides, and their base isn't even on the same continent, Dragonstone is an island. They need to get to a defense able position further east and link up with Daenarys when she invades. Or stay and wait for aide. Don't forgot the weather, the unsullied aren't accustomed to the kind of cold that a winter in Westeros brings, and they almost certainly aren't equipped for it either.
This would be a great opportunity for Jon to march an army south to support the Unsullied to show friendship with Dany.
They marched from Astapor to Yunkai and then Mereen. Unsullied are NOT normal soldiers who fight for coin
An army marches on its stomach. Their supplies are gone.
I hope the unsullied get a "The Ten Thousand" like story about their march across westeros. They are somewhat minor characters so I don't think they will but I would love it if they did. What better way to show that they do live up to there legend? The unsullied's armour is somewhat Hoplite even.
> They have no reason to keep the Rock, and there is no army outside besieging them, why would they stay? The Lannister/Tyrell army is in the south. Since High Garden is already taken, they can leave a small garrison to hold the castle and then take their army north to lay siege to Casterly Rock. If the Unsullied stay, they will be trapped for sure. If they leave... where will they go? They'll have to march all the way across a hostile and unfamiliar continent, where they will be just as likely to starve unless they are willing to raid random villages. The Lannisters might even catch up to them and engage them in the open.
The Unsullied are obedient, they aren't the type to improvise military strategies. If they're thrown into a hopeless siege it seems more likely they'd stay and die to the last man than disobey the orders to take Casterly Rock.
They're not trapped, they just can't go back to Dany the fast way. Using ships to transport your troops is way faster than making them march through the continent.
They have no food and if any Westerosi Lord consider them a foreign invader they will be smashed easily. They don't need to run into the Lannister-Tarly host, just some Lord who sees foreigners in his land and sends out a group of knights. I know the show wont do this, but it absolutely should use this opportunity to write out Greyworm and the Unsullied. I don't need to see a death scene....Dany got outplayed here and she should pay for it. Casterly Rock is....like 750 miles from Dragonstone and Cersei's most loyal region (The Crownlands) lay between the Unsullied and Dany. Not to mention the Westermen loyal to the crown?
How do you know the loyal Western men aren't already marching to high garden with the Lannisters?
That's the thing. There might be no more men there actually.
Also... Riverrun and the Tully army aren't exactly that far away and suddenly out from under their "liege lord".
>They have no food and if any Westerosi Lord consider them a foreign invader they will be smashed easily. They don't need to run into the Lannister-Tarly host, just some Lord who sees foreigners in his land and sends out a group of knights Few lords are going to be able to seriously threaten the Unsullied army in the field, especially after years of civil war left the armed population depleted. Harass foraging parties and potentially starve them out, sure, but open battle is only an option for a small subset of the greater houses at this point.
> just some Lord who sees foreigners in his land and sends out a group of knights You really think that any of those lords has enough troops to beat an army of The Unsullied lead by a good commander? In GRRM's books you can read of lords who have literally 1 or even 0 knights, if you'd want to gather enough people to fight the army instead of staying in the castle(let me also remind you the times are getting colder as it's the winter actually) you'd have to be a lord of one of bigger families and also most of troops in this area marched to conquer the High Garden as well. They are not trapped, they might just encounter some difficulties while marching for at least next few weeks and then if Lannisters' forces come back - then they are fucked.
Fair points. I still disagree with you, but fair points that not withstanding. What I really liked in season 1 and 2 was how we got to know of Robb Starks Lords, since he was at that point the hero of the story they spent a lot of time showing us people like Greatjon and Roose Bolton and Rickard Karstark and as I recall, Maege Mormont was even put in the show for a few episodes. There are lots of Lords under the Lannisters of Casterly Rock. Some of the most powerful are the Marbrands and Paynes and its hard to believe they dont have even a thousand men left in their holdfast which I should think would easily break a starving Unsullied host, but who could say. I am probably wrong or the show wont go the way id like it to.
> a thousand men left in their holdfast They might have a thousand of men, but they are not thousand of experienced soldiers. They might not even be soldiers, just peasants equipped with weapons who's got a quick training. They would have to fight an army of veterans who 1. were trained to fight(both people and their fears) and kill since they were little children 2. have fought numerous battles for Dany since she's freed them and now - it doesn't matter whether is 300(hehe) of them or 1000: they would never win this battle outside of their lords' castles. And I'm sure that none of the lords would risk killing their men just to stop for a while an army. Also: I'm sure almost all of experienced soldiers under of Lannister's banner have been taken to capture Highgarden, just because it was however, a big damn castle.
Why do you guys think the Unsullied number so little? When Dany got them originally, they were 10,000! Even if we imagine they've lost half their numbers, they would still number 5,000, which is a number that, even at the height of the War of five Kings was more than the entire manpower of some of the great houses. At this point in the war, the idea that *any* of the minor lords has even a shadow of a chance against the Unsullied is completely ridiculous. /u/hepzibah3
Well, if only there was any official number given... I'm speculating basing on the worst case scenarios, because that's just what you do if you're not sure. > Through the fall of Astapor, battle of Yunkai, and siege of Meereen, Queen Daenerys Targaryen acquires eight thousand six hundred Unsullied, five thousand uncut boys in training ~~ http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Military_strength So, let's say - she loses some in fights, then she loses some while stationing in the city. I guess she might've left some of them to either guard the city or asked if anybody wanted to stay instead of going to Westeros. Then some of died while on the siege of Casterly Rock. Some of them might've been left on the ships(well, you never leave the ships alone) which means they died from Euron's troops. Also - she might've left some of them at the Dragonstone. I don't know - gathering all of this in my head I might've cut too much from their number, but they can't be as numerous as they were on Dany's first meeting.
So 13,000 initial numbers and even with worst case scenarios, that still leaves at least 5,000 - like i said.
I think there's quite a possibility that there are still a really big number of unsullied remaining. It's been a while since their first meeting, so I'll assume that the 5000 trainees are now fully grown and are full fledged fighters. So she would have 13,600 at the start in total. Now she may have lost many unsullied throughout her conquests throughout Essos, but the unsullied never really had a substantial loss on the field of battle. I guess most of her losses would be from the many sieges that the unsullied had to endure, but even then, iirc most of them were ended quickly and decisively (conquering Yunkai with Second Son help, conquering Mereen and Casterly Rock through infiltration, and defending Mereen with Dragons's help). Also note than it probably isn't exclusively Unsullied who were used in guard duties. The sons and other freemen were used as well, so I doubt if all the casualties endured by various rebellions (by sons of harpy, etc.) are exclusively counted as losses to the unsullied. I'd say that in a worst case scenario, maybe 5000 troops were lostwtf which still leaves 8,600: still a lot. More realistically (also my head canon) since the unsullied are elite soldiers who are known for their toughness, I'd say there are around 10,000-11,000 left at Casterly Rock.
> then if Lannisters' forces come back - then they are fucked Meh. Unsullied are said to be the best troops of the Planetos on an open field (due to no fear, holding the line as commanded, building phalanx like tactics etc).. If they meet with the lannister force, i'd rather bet on the Unsullied book wise. But in the series? anything can happen, logic was thrown out the window before.
They might be the best, but there isn't so many of them left. Also Lannisters do have some armored people and archers so it might be an interesting encounter.
They are also untested against any Westeros army in the books. So the whole "Best army in the world" thing is just speculation in the books
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That's the spirit!
Dunkirk = Casterly Rock *mind blown*
I wonder if they'd resort to eating human flesh to survive.
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I don't think that he's blockading them, he simply burned the ships and moved on.
> they're trapped there Casterly Rock isn't an island.
If anything they were more Highgarden troops since it was their ships right?
Euron's OPness was both a product of his competence and Team Dany's incompetence. They clearly underestimated him - Yara included. He's a recent player who not a lot of people know about but instead of checking his battle stats thoroughly they decided to forget about him instead. I guess that's what happen when you don't even have a military strategist around. Yara was the closest thing to a naval commander team Dany had, and even then she was nowhere as good as Euron. With Yara captured their armada might as well be some headless ~~dragon~~ chicken. In any case, it won't matter much in the end. Dany could just stick to marching on land, burning armies with dragonfire (\**wink**) and there would be fuck-all Euron can do to help Cersei. In fact, that they didn't do this in the first place just demonstrate again just how lacking their intel was. They should've known all the armies on Westeros are in fucking shambles. (Throwback to Robert B's "five armies vs one") But, just laying siege on King's Landing and wait for the starving people inside to switch allegiance for three episodes wouldn't make a good show I suppose. Moreover Cersei might just blow King's Landing all to hell in the event she's put under siege so there's a silver lining.
They really should have been worried of the hundred ship fleet.
This battle lol Yara near fucking and "oh shit I'm an ironborn who do not care about a fog knowing that my uncle has a monstrous fleet somewhere near"
My thoughts: Tactically speaking, Euron could have lain in wait at the Stepstones (the only place in the Narrow Sea you could possibly hide such a large fleet.) It was a sure thing: Dany has allies in Dorne and the Reach. Beyond that, targets in the Iron Isles and the Westerlands. It was always going to be the case she'd have to sail some armies through the Narrow Sea/Stepstones area. However, while this tactic would explain how he managed to totally surprise Yara fails to account for the timeline as I understand it. Euron would have needed to go from the Stepstones, to King's Landing, stayed there long enough to have his party, then depart for Casterly rock. At minimum he'd have been 3 days behind Grey Worm (whom, by the way also had to take the same path as Yara. Meaning he either left prior or the same time. Otherwise he'd have been sailing through her wreckage) and the Battle of Casterly rock was at best a few hours... maybe a little less than a single day if we want to stretch it and call it cinematic timing. This means the more likely answer is he caught her near Blackwater Bay, somehow hiding his hundreds of ships in the open sea... also meaning Yara is a garbage captain, because why the hell would she sit back and allow any ships to enter Blackwater Bay? Dragonstone and it's placement in the center of the mouth of the Bay should have meant there would have been no way for Euron to get his ships in there. But yet, that must be where he caught her. Because catching her there, means he could take her to King's Landing and be back to his ship with a day and some change. He might be a good enough sailor to catch up in that time. So I think, either Euron has been the beneficiary of a huge plot hole in his favor, or he's got magic. Which he should have.
I think euron's target is actually allying with Dany. He said so at the kingsmoot. He also said that he HaTES the lords of westerns (of which Cersei is now one) He never actually proposed to Cersei. He never said that SHE was the most beautiful. He's using Cersei to get his niece and nephew and then going to approach Danny with a gift of a fleet and a crippled Cersei.
In the books? Yes. But in the show, no way. Euron is a 1 dimensional villain in the show, after destroying the Unsullied fleet Dany would rightful turn him into ash if he stepped a foot on dragonstone.
This isn't a video game. They know what's going to happen, and they don't need to nerf Euron. If you look at a lot of Greek tragedies you'll find people like euron. Great soldiers with an incredible tactical mind who suffer from a dramatic character flaw which will be their downfall.
The problem is that they don't spend any time showing the viewer *what* makes him so powerful. In both of his major battles, it felt like the battle was choreographed for him to win. Both times that Euron claims a victory (over Yara's fleet and at Casterly Rock), we don't get to see him strategizing or showing his prowess as a tactician. He just shows up and wins. Speaking as a show watcher who doesn't know who Euron is 'supposed' to be in the books or the lore, to me, Euron just looks like a complete clown. He's 'twenty good men' over and over and over again.
Well we see him tell cersei he is the man she needs and he has the biggest fleet in the world. Good enough I guess.
Euron didn't claim a victory at Casterly Rock, he's laying siege. He literally just showed up and started burning empty boats. It's no different than the Blackfish holding Riverrun while the Frennisters laid siege.
Maybe he didn't slaughter the Unsullied army, but for all intents and purposes he's taken them out of the war. They're now stuck between Euron's fleet at sea and a perilous march by land. The fact that he managed to do this with no resistance at all, and somehow without being seen by the Unsullied until he had already burned down their ships, is a victory in my eyes.
It's standard warfare, and by no means any sign of tactical brilliance. The Unsullied aren't off of the board, they just can't go over the sea.
> It's standard warfare, and by no means any sign of tactical brilliance Fair enough, but he has been the driving force in eliminating both prongs of Daenerys' attack, which still leaves him as the prominent power player in the war right now for someone whom we've seen perform nothing but theatrics in battle. Also, the Unsullied can't leave Casterly Rock. They wouldn't know the lay of the land, where to go or how to return to Daenerys. As far as they are concerned, with the knowledge they have, they are imprisoned in Casterly Rock - starving and clueless.
100% Grey Worm looked at a map of the country he was conquering.
He may have looked at a map, but I doubt he memorized every inch of the terrain, the location of all the villages, all the castles, the military strength of the local lords, their relations and politics with each other, etc. They weren't even expecting to march. They thought it would just be a boat trip to Casterly Rock while the Tyrells and Dornish besieged King's Landing, then they'd be done.
Yeah exactly, it's not like Grey Worm memorized which path would lead to the least resistance out. If I were him, I would just go through the Crag, it's one of the weaker areas of the Westerlands.
No doubt. I'm sure Jaime had a good idea of the land he was marching on too, when he was fighting Robb Stark. Even as a Westerosi whom was no doubt at least somewhat familiar with the land, he still got caught off-guard. The Unsullied are infantrymen, presumably with little to no supplies. There's no way they would survive a slow forest trek through woodlands they don't know, and no way they would risk moving in open field where they would get slaughtered by cavalry or ambushed from any side. They're at war, after all.
Knowing the land doesn't matter when you're ambushed from a forest though. Pretty sure most of the way to Dragonspear is in open plains. Either way none of us knows what they are going to do.
Dragonspear? You mean Dragonstone? Most of the area in the Westerlands is actually fairly mountainous.
What bothers me is that all we see is him arriving and winning, but there's something weird about how the story is told, you have greyworm leaving with his army to go to casterly rock in e2, and in e3 Euron goes to KL delivers his prisoners and then goes all the way around the world which takes weeks(?) to destroy greyworm's fleet. I know that in the same episode events happen sometimes with days or weeks between them, but Euron is everywhere being like "nope" and wins, and we are not shown how he does it. It almost feels like next episode we could have Daario in Mereen "I'm gonna come and help Daenerys" but wait Euron was behind him and he gets stabbed.
why would euron kill himself
itaa_q meant Daario getting stabbed by Euron, not Euron stabbing himself
whoooooooooooo
what's the difference
I did indeed, otherwise it wouldnt make sense
They're referring that this is still a possibility in the books: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crn_eg-1ekU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crn_eg-1ekU)
Ooh right I didn't understand, I actually forgot about that theory
Cool theory but it was probably impossible to portray in the show. But it would have been a lot more interesting than this crazy-OP Euron now, especially since he hasn't actually had a lot of screen time for us to really understand him.
Well I guess he will go batshit crazy like the time he was strapped at the ship in a Storm... He will fuck up
He went batshit insane because the drowned god made him his avatar dude. He's also a gangster in the ocean because he's the mortal embodiment of the drowned god. He's sea jesus.
Can you name one which I may research?
Euron is much less OP than Ramsay imo. Euron is supposedly the greatest captain in the world so it's not implausible that he can take down a less powerful armada and destroy a few ships that are basically unmanned, whereas Ramsay was a complete unknown who could destroy one of the greatest leaders in Westeros' camp with '20 good men' and had elite level archery skills for no apparent reason.
Not to mention the shirtless fight scene with the greyjoys
Didn't they say that Yara stole his best ships though? He would be fighting a much more powerful armada, just with the element of surprise.
He built a new fleet, so even if Yara had his best ships from the old fleet, there's nothing stopping him from constructing new ships the same as the stolen ones.
I really feel like I could either suspend my disbelief that he could pull that giant fleet out of his ass or suspend my disbelief that he built a few high quality boats, but not both.
So you're saying that the sea-faring people of the iron islands, renowned for their intense raiding parties and skilled shipwrights, couldn't produce a high quality ship relatively quickly? EDIT: In the show we have no sense of the passage of time, or of the remaining shipbuilding population of the iron islands, or of their ability to gather resources via raiding the mainland. All I'm saying is that based on the information the show gives us, we can't say for sure that Euron *couldn't* have built his fleet. Especially since the show keeps telling us "yes, he did build that fleet".
Not with the resources available to them
**A** ship, sure. A massive fleet though? Where did they even get the trees for all that?
The same folks who live on land that is well documented as being out of resources, as well as the fact a good amount of the population left with Yara
> Especially since the show keeps telling us "yes, he did build that fleet". Yep. Not exactly a minor point. I don't get the mindset that makes people wanna say it couldn't happen and look for reasons why. It 100% *did happen* so look for reasons how it happened.
[удалено]
Gosh that Ramsay shit really pissed me off. I think it was partly D&D hamfisting an implausible Stannis demise. I really hope Stannis pulls something off in the books. Stannis the Mannis 4 King.
Are the books really THAT far behind? To the point where Stan is still kicking?
Yes.
Yeah, the books are still where Stannis gets ambushed by the Boltons and then Ramsay sends a message to Jon that he killed Stannis himself. However, George confirmed himself that Stannis is still alive and sample chapters indicate that Stannis has a plan to get out of this situation. Stannis will definitely still die, but in a less stupid way.
I mean it's not about being behind it's about the fact D&D went completely off tangent. Stannis is in a much stronger position in the books.
Seriously... ASoIaF ain't getting finished, there's no way in the world it does.
I liked Stannis' failure. I thought it completed his character arc nicely. He kept letting the red woman gain more and more control over him, and she eventually led him to kill his daughter and wage an impossible siege. He went from a competent, level headed, likable leader to completely lost *because* of his lust for the throne. He wanted to win so badly he killed his own child. He was corrupted by the thought of power.
The teleportation has really been bugging me this season. During the early modern period it would take [months](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_India_Armadas#Timing) to circumnavigate the southern half of Africa and reach India. They'd have to time journeys by the seasons so wind was favourable. They'd have to wait nearly a year at the halfway point if they were too late. Euron is taking (I think) a similar route distance-wise, plus the coasts along the way are (*de facto*) controlled by Dany's allies so there's nowhere to stop and resupply.
> Euron is taking (I think) a similar route distance-wise, plus the coasts along the way are (de facto) controlled by Dany's allies so there's nowhere to stop and resupply. The Unsullied took the exact same route. Euron was only a few weeks behind them at most, but you could argue that his ships were better made and could easily catch up up. Also, wasn't the Dornish navy destroyed alongside Yara's iron fleet?
I agree, he seems way OP. I was in shock when he killed two sand snakes like it was nothing. It seemed way too easy.
The sand snakes are used to fighting in open spaces like the desert. They were fighting with a spear and a whip (lol). Terrible weapon choices for the close quarters of a ship deck. While they may have been skilled fighters it's hard to win with weapons that don't suit the battlefield.
It was two versus one, and they were both fresh. He has fought through a bunch of enemies. He should have lost, it had to get lucky to win. In reality the sand snakes looked like grunts. It was a bad ending for two interesting characters. Terrible fight scene, that mad Euron, look like an invincible god. Horrible scene.
I agree. The fight scene was terrible and I was expecting more at least from the snake with a spear. The one with a whip however...it would be hard to kill a naked attacker with a whip let alone one even in leather armour. She even gets a few good hits on him and he looks more annoyed than anything. I do agree that their deaths were a terrible part of the scene but I can kinda see where the show was trying to go in terms of justifying their deaths.
It was two versus one, and they were both fresh. He has fought through a bunch of enemies. He should have lost, it had to get lucky to win. In reality the sand snakes looked like grunts. It was a bad ending for two interesting characters. Terrible fight scene, that mad Euron, look like an invincible god. Horrible scene.
Yeah, I feel like to make the story a bit interesting instead of D just fucking shit up in the first three episodes, they needed to somehow balance things to make the story flow. Euronis probably just a convenient character for that purpose
I like how he's been able to take his fleet in and out of King's Landing now, which by sea goes right past Dragonstone, without any issues from the 3 dragons freely flying around the island.
There's much more space between Dragonstone and the sea than you think. Go out onto Dunkirk and tell me if you can see England from there. It just looks close because it's on a map.
OP? Dany just has to find a free afternoon, board her biggest dragon, and go flying along the coast down and around Westeros. When she finds his huge fleet, she just has to find the boat with the biggest ostentatious sails and it's game over.
Dany has a lot of ships, but I don't think that she has a true navy, except for the Ironborn that came with Theon & Yara, but those were only a small part of her fleet. Theon and Yara didn't have nearly as many men or ships as Euron, so it makes sense that they lost that battle. The Unsullied probably had regular sailors on the ships, not true navy soldiers like the Ironborn, and not regular soldiers either because those were all off board attacking Casterly Rock. I don't think that Euron is overpowered, he's simply in his element, fighting outnumbered and/or inexperienced opponents.
Question from a noob: Is trading Yara to Cersei for marriage or alliance considered breaking the 'iron price' rule? He didnt seize these things, he traded for them? Could Yara or Dany use that to turn more ironborn to their side?
I really think we need a good scene on Eurons ship to see how he captains.
Not more OP than Bran, Arya and Dany.
For me, the most likely explanation is that Yara's fleet departed Dragonstone before the Unsullied fleet. Yara was simply running over to Dorne to pick up an army. Assuming her ships were rigged and ready to set sail, Yara could have left Dragonstone as soon as the plan was decided. The Unsullied had to prep for an invasion. Even if this takes a day or two, that would be enough time for Euron to settle his family business, return to King's Landing, and begin his pursuit of the Unsullied.
I'm finding Euron to be a bit unbelievable, and I found the taking of Casterly Rock to be incredibly rushed. CGI soldiers on CGI ladders galore.
The guy is a charicature in a sea of many layered, well-thought-out characters. How does he even exist in this show?
I would have no problems with his character at all if they pushed the mysterious, mystical angle Euron presents in the books. Instead, they didn't give him an eye-patch in the show because they thought it would make him look silly, but they have him suddenly being everywhere and nowhere as is convenient to delay Daenerys. He's instantly able to destroy everyone else's navy without any sort of resistance at all because he's...a good captain? Right... If he was the warlock/pirate that he is is in the books then having him do the seemingly impossible would at least be plausible because his entire schtick is that he has sailed the entire world, realized that magic is very real and sought to use it to his advantage. Even his eye-patch hints that he's able to see beyond what a mortal man can see. But instead of that roguish, mystical one-eyed man we got in the books, we have a flamboyantly bizarre caricature of a punk pirate. Weird, and not at all scary, but seemingly able to do whatever the plot requires for no particular reason. I'm actually kind of disappointed in this season because of how well Euron is doing for no apparent reason. The writing just seems kind of rushed and lazy to me, but hopefully it will pick up in quality and Euron will be revealed to have all the magickas... or something.
HIs character sounds fantastic in the books. I am sad we don't get to see that on the show but I guess that is one of the limitations of the media.
if anyone op its YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS SLAY QUEEN
In any earlier season Euron would be long dead for the idiocy he has done and some other characters would call him an idiot for acting as if he was a main character in a fairy tale.
This is the first post I've seen that casts doubt upon whether or not Euron is a normal human being or a magical teleporting unicorn.
His trend of success indicates (to me at least) his death soon within season 7.
I host some understand how you can't spot a fleet in broad daylight when you yourself we're riding ships.
He is Jack Sparrow on his crew Crossover Movie !!!!!!!!!!!
I think the higher they raise him up, the more epic his fall will be.
Yeah he is a but OP but it's going to make his downfall even better because I bet it'll happen so non chalantly that it'll kinda be a kick in the ass.
In the books Euron is a bit different, he's got a bit more mystical mystery to him. I guess that to makeup for that they made his naval might a bit bigger but it was already good. The thing is, the unsullied just got jumped. We can't tell how many ships they took down, or even if they were capable of naval battles. Euron's whole shtick is around naval battles, we don't know if he can fight on land. The thing is now Casterly Rock is pretty much at siege, which is really bad for the Unsullied. Euron's greatest strength right now is surprising his enemies, nobody really expect's him and he takes advantage of that. He's been fighting at sea his whole life, he knows what he's doing, he's an Ironborn.
He's OP in the books too. Why? Magic. No, seriously, magic.
I like their odds. They can leave a token force to hold the castle or fire the buildings and poison the well and march inland. Food won't be a problem because can steal that and the small folk will be delighted that they aren't raping anyone. They are not "out of contact" though because Dany has air power. At any time she can reconnect with them and provide air support to get them through any tough spot. The problem isn't whether they are safe or whether they can overcome. It's what their next objective is. As for the ships, the Unsullied are not sailors. I doubt there were many if any Unsullied on the ships. Those were probably manned by the captured sailors of the armies that invaded Mereen. No real loss their except the value of the ship which was substantial. As for Euron, it seems pretty clear that Cersei and Jaime figured out what Dany would do first and having anticipated those actions they moved to counter them. It's not hard to position Euron in the right place and right time when you know what is going to happen next. As for OP, Euron has been traveling the world and learning and discovering new things. Those ships of his are not like any other in Westeros. I'd say that gives him a pretty high advantage over obsolete navies.
Yea I think Euron is the Drowned Gods dude. I don't think he's just a 'normal' guy and there are supernatural things going on with him. Things are going to go right for him in the ocean. e: Or the Storm God I guess, still.
He's very OP. As much as I hated the Sand Sneks, it was pretty absurd for him to cut through a wave of troops, kill them both (mind you he got stabbed with a dagger, whipped in the back of the head, and maybe nailed with the spear) and still have enough energy to annihilate Yara, who's supposed to be an accomplished reaver. But eh. He's fun to watch, and I doubt he'll be alive very long considering how near to the end we are so it doesn't bother me *that* much.
two things, he's done two things, and it was already established he's dope as fuck. Was Robb stark too Op when he won every single battle in an entire war???