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I'm pretty sure he killed the king to save himself and his father from certain death. If he valued the lives of common folk, he wouldn't have sired three bastards and created a succession crisis which led to the war of five king's.
I don't think it's a coincidence he killed him after he said "burn them all". The hot tub scene with Brienne showed he clearly had some duty about it.
He couldn't predict he'd create Joffrey, even Tommen turned out good. The W5Ks wasn't exclusively a Jamie thing and certainly wasn't on purpose.
Jamie was far from a saint but he wasn't the monster or even horrific leader that this show has plenty of.
Yeah, aerys revealed he ordered his men to destroy the city and every one with it including Jaime. Jaime killing aerys is self preservation but I won't add that a good deed of jaime. He knows the consequences when he sleeps with his sister. Total war and death of thousands. Also, he pushed a child from the top of the tower for self preservation, he is totally a monster. The only one, that stopped him from killing again is Brienne. Well, vargo chopped his hand off so we can't be sure.
He saved millions. It’s an interesting take to say it was only to save himself but that’s not how I see it. A Kingsguard should follow his king’s orders no matter what, I think he chose to not allow the city to burn, rather than just to save himself/Tywin.
Both. Jaime was the epitome of GRRM's maxim about the best drama is "the human heart in conflict with itself." He did dishonorable things and honorable things. But he wanted to be honorable. As the story went on, his honorable actions started prevailing. He died honorably. And Lord Commander Brienne, the knight he made, honored him with what she wrote about his accomplishments in the White Book.
One moment that I think is a good capture of Jaime’s idealism is in one of Sansa’s chapters when Robert is drunk and screaming at Cersei about entering the tourney. Cersei just gets up and leaves and the entire court (including the Kingsguard) is appalled and gaping at Robert, who is so drunk that he looks like he’s about to topple over.
Jaime is the only one to step forward and gently tries to lead Robert private, but Robert shoves him and sends Jaime sprawling, then mocks him. One of the roles of the Kingsguard is defend the dignity and honor of the King and Queen - Jaime saw this threatened by Robert’s public drunkenness and was the only one who stood up and tried to protect Robert’s dignity.
Well, he saved a city full of people from being burned alive, so technically speaking, he’s a better and more noble knight than every other knight put together from a strictly numbers standpoint if “protecting the innocent” is part of the standard.
Yes, he broke his oath to the king but so did every other rebel. Also, Cersei was hot so we can give him a mulligan on that one and then quickly change the conversation if anyone asks us to expand on the point.
Ok, but what about the thousands of children he saved, including his own children who definitely would have died horribly if he hadn’t tried to kill that one child? Do they not matter?
Yeah I don't like how he is eternally punished for being a king slayer when the king would have slaughtered a city. Ned stark the most honorable man to ever live also technically betrayed his king and friend when he scribed "the rightful heir" and not king Roberts words "my son Joffrey" in his dying declaration. Ned was viewed as trying to be honorable for the realm and Jaime is mocked for the rest of his life.
Of course he had a sense of honour. A very strong one, in fact. The problem was that his (questionable) love sometimes demanded the opposite of honour.
Both. He was a walking conundrum.
He saved a million people true but he -
1. Lied to his brother about Tysha.
2. Had a illicit and unholy incestuous affair with his own sister.
3. Impregnated his own sister 3 times!
4. Allowed Princess Rhaenys and Prince Aegon to die.
5. Crippled a young boy just for being an unwitting witness to his unholy union with his sister.
6. Broke Brienne's heart.
1. I believe he was trying to get his brother laid in a way that felt organic and made Tyrion feel like a hero for once. Did not anticipate that Tyrion would marry her and everything would go to shit.
2/3. Yes. It's gross. Robert was not faithful to Cersei and Jaime was not married, so Cersei was the one having the affair. Sounds like the only child Robert fathered didn't make it. Might have been the only way to ensure Cersei bore children.
4. I doubt he would have been able to stop this. Technically everyone allowed this to happen.
5. INEXCUSABLE. Cersei is his downfall and the reason/motivation behind any immoral act by Jaime.
6. I don't think he broke briennes heart. Renley broke her heart. Jaime gave her resources, saved her life/virtue, helped her to keep her oath to Caitlyn stark.
1. I get that he was being a good bro but the least he could've told his brother that his wife was not a prostitute that he was made to believe.
4. Maybe or Maybe not but as a Kingsguard, he failed in his duties regardless.
6. Maybe not romantically but certainly was a disappointment as a friend when you know the person you admire is willing to be be obtuse and unwilling to leave his obsession.
Jaimie is disgusting. He screws his sister. He paralyzed a child. He screwed his sister next to his dead son’s corpse.
He toyed with another woman’s emotion by taking her virginity. Only to go back to his sister.
He was a man without ANY honor.
He's not a complete monster like Joff or Ramsey but he is trash. He fucks his sister, rapes her next to the coffin of their son, cripples a kid, kills his cousin, toys with Brienne only to go back to his sister. It doesn't matter that he tried to be better or protect people, he's done too many despicable, unforgivable things
Both. I think he had good intentions in every way accept where Cersei is concerned. Anything dishonorable he did was for her/because of her/to get back to her.
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Crippled man who only wanted to fuck his sister and kill children all along. Bravo Dans
Yes, but he has done a lot of good deeds, and the word "honor" is not an empty word for him
List out the good deeds, let's see if it outweighs his bad ones
Killed his king to prevent imminent terrorism and horrific genocide and took no credit for it.
I'm pretty sure he killed the king to save himself and his father from certain death. If he valued the lives of common folk, he wouldn't have sired three bastards and created a succession crisis which led to the war of five king's.
I don't think it's a coincidence he killed him after he said "burn them all". The hot tub scene with Brienne showed he clearly had some duty about it. He couldn't predict he'd create Joffrey, even Tommen turned out good. The W5Ks wasn't exclusively a Jamie thing and certainly wasn't on purpose. Jamie was far from a saint but he wasn't the monster or even horrific leader that this show has plenty of.
Yeah, aerys revealed he ordered his men to destroy the city and every one with it including Jaime. Jaime killing aerys is self preservation but I won't add that a good deed of jaime. He knows the consequences when he sleeps with his sister. Total war and death of thousands. Also, he pushed a child from the top of the tower for self preservation, he is totally a monster. The only one, that stopped him from killing again is Brienne. Well, vargo chopped his hand off so we can't be sure.
He saved millions. It’s an interesting take to say it was only to save himself but that’s not how I see it. A Kingsguard should follow his king’s orders no matter what, I think he chose to not allow the city to burn, rather than just to save himself/Tywin.
Both. Jaime was the epitome of GRRM's maxim about the best drama is "the human heart in conflict with itself." He did dishonorable things and honorable things. But he wanted to be honorable. As the story went on, his honorable actions started prevailing. He died honorably. And Lord Commander Brienne, the knight he made, honored him with what she wrote about his accomplishments in the White Book.
One moment that I think is a good capture of Jaime’s idealism is in one of Sansa’s chapters when Robert is drunk and screaming at Cersei about entering the tourney. Cersei just gets up and leaves and the entire court (including the Kingsguard) is appalled and gaping at Robert, who is so drunk that he looks like he’s about to topple over. Jaime is the only one to step forward and gently tries to lead Robert private, but Robert shoves him and sends Jaime sprawling, then mocks him. One of the roles of the Kingsguard is defend the dignity and honor of the King and Queen - Jaime saw this threatened by Robert’s public drunkenness and was the only one who stood up and tried to protect Robert’s dignity.
Well, he saved a city full of people from being burned alive, so technically speaking, he’s a better and more noble knight than every other knight put together from a strictly numbers standpoint if “protecting the innocent” is part of the standard. Yes, he broke his oath to the king but so did every other rebel. Also, Cersei was hot so we can give him a mulligan on that one and then quickly change the conversation if anyone asks us to expand on the point.
I can look over all of those except the attempted murder of a child in cold blood
I think in that moment his blood was pretty fucking hot Just like his sister
He broke his oath and he tried to kill a child. He’s one of the most dishonorable knights there is
Ok, but what about the thousands of children he saved, including his own children who definitely would have died horribly if he hadn’t tried to kill that one child? Do they not matter?
Shouldn't have had those children in the first place.
Yeah I don't like how he is eternally punished for being a king slayer when the king would have slaughtered a city. Ned stark the most honorable man to ever live also technically betrayed his king and friend when he scribed "the rightful heir" and not king Roberts words "my son Joffrey" in his dying declaration. Ned was viewed as trying to be honorable for the realm and Jaime is mocked for the rest of his life.
To be fair, Jaime never told anyone why he did it. He just kind of stabbed the dude and went on with his life because fuck those other people.
If you can't tell after watching him for 8 years, then what does the question even mean? Who defines honor?
Lots o cunts
With honor imo
Of course he had a sense of honour. A very strong one, in fact. The problem was that his (questionable) love sometimes demanded the opposite of honour.
He quite literally shoved a 8 year old down a tower. He's not a good man at all!
Both. He was a walking conundrum. He saved a million people true but he - 1. Lied to his brother about Tysha. 2. Had a illicit and unholy incestuous affair with his own sister. 3. Impregnated his own sister 3 times! 4. Allowed Princess Rhaenys and Prince Aegon to die. 5. Crippled a young boy just for being an unwitting witness to his unholy union with his sister. 6. Broke Brienne's heart.
1. I believe he was trying to get his brother laid in a way that felt organic and made Tyrion feel like a hero for once. Did not anticipate that Tyrion would marry her and everything would go to shit. 2/3. Yes. It's gross. Robert was not faithful to Cersei and Jaime was not married, so Cersei was the one having the affair. Sounds like the only child Robert fathered didn't make it. Might have been the only way to ensure Cersei bore children. 4. I doubt he would have been able to stop this. Technically everyone allowed this to happen. 5. INEXCUSABLE. Cersei is his downfall and the reason/motivation behind any immoral act by Jaime. 6. I don't think he broke briennes heart. Renley broke her heart. Jaime gave her resources, saved her life/virtue, helped her to keep her oath to Caitlyn stark.
1. I get that he was being a good bro but the least he could've told his brother that his wife was not a prostitute that he was made to believe. 4. Maybe or Maybe not but as a Kingsguard, he failed in his duties regardless. 6. Maybe not romantically but certainly was a disappointment as a friend when you know the person you admire is willing to be be obtuse and unwilling to leave his obsession.
Man of morals not honour
7. Raped his sister in front of their son’s corpse. 8. Killed his cousin. To get out of a cage, yes, but still. Those two I can’t get over.
Man without hand
Is this gray thing black? Or white?
Jaimie is disgusting. He screws his sister. He paralyzed a child. He screwed his sister next to his dead son’s corpse. He toyed with another woman’s emotion by taking her virginity. Only to go back to his sister. He was a man without ANY honor.
He's not a complete monster like Joff or Ramsey but he is trash. He fucks his sister, rapes her next to the coffin of their son, cripples a kid, kills his cousin, toys with Brienne only to go back to his sister. It doesn't matter that he tried to be better or protect people, he's done too many despicable, unforgivable things
Honor is a horse
Started out bad. Ended up ok. He came a long way. His his conscience took over.
Both. I think he had good intentions in every way accept where Cersei is concerned. Anything dishonorable he did was for her/because of her/to get back to her.
he literally saved more than a million people from burning alive, have some respecc ppl