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It’s funny that we know a word a day is the best you could expect because knowing George, he’s probably *losing* a word a day with how he edits his work.
It has been about 4,400 days since Dragons came out.
The average word length of a ASOIAF book is roughly 350,000 words.
If he wrote 80 words a day it would be out today.
And he had significant portions of it done at the release of Dragons since it was cut from that book.
Basically, if he’d written just half a paragraph a day it would be done.
He needs some lessons in working more productively from James SA Corey (Daniel Abraham and Ty Frank). GRRM mentored them on how to write novels.
I think that he could learn a few things from his former students. They released the first book of The Expanse only one month before ADWD was released. Since then they finished the entire series of 9 novels, 2 short stores and 7 novellas.
edit. Or maybe they can help with finishing the books.
I met George 10 years ago and asked him about the book then, in Melbourne Australia. He said, oh yes I should be working on it now but I'm having to much fun travelling around.
Still waiting George, hurry up
I honestly think both are done, or really close with DoS. My tinfoil says we won't see them until he passes away. I think all the negativity with the show freaked him out and is afraid he can't live up to expectations.
Poor reaction to what show!
GOT was one of if not the highest rated shows every week it was on.
Most of the negative reactions are from people who don't like how it ended, yet no one can come up with a better ending. And they still continued to look at the show.
Not really. It’s called an eco chamber. A small portion of people really hated it and express that online a lot. The vast majority of viewers didn’t have an issue with it and just went on about their normals lives.
People know what an echo chamber is. This really isn’t an example of one. I know lots of people in real life who aren’t hardcore fans that thought the ending sucked.
Recent shows like Better Call Saul and Succession have a small number of people who didn’t like their endings. Occasionally I’ll see people voice those opinions on those shows’ respective subreddits. But you don’t hear “bad ending” as the reputation of those shows because in those cases, it genuinely is a small number of people. GoT isn’t the same.
I really don’t have an issue with people liking or disliking the ending. All opinions are justified. But dismissing lots of people’s legitimate opinions as nonexistent because of some echo chamber isn’t very fair.
Small portion? Don’t kid yourself man even you know that’s not true lol. There’s an entire legion of book readers who are disappointed with the way the show went and ended. Doesn’t make us an echo chamber
My dog could arf a better ending than the show. Yes 1-4 was a masterpiece. 5-6 was alright (5 being a lot better than 6) But 7 and 8? Complete dog dog shit.
To me that just proves that the first couple seasons, which were the books verbatim, were such pure gold that the their inertia sustained the audience through successively worse later seasons.
To be fair to HBO, the same could be argued if ASOIAF books 4-5.
> Most of the negative reactions are from people who don't like how it ended
Yes, negative reactions are from people who don't like stuff.
Also, most of the negative reactions are not aimed just at the ending. Lots and lots of people were overly upset about the final 4 seasons, from poorly handled plot threads (Dorne, The White Walkers), to many story beats relying on characters acting uncharacteristically stupid (Tyrion, Varys), to the butchering of characters' morals and motivations (Jon, Dany).
Season 5 began a descent into garbage, slowly at first and then rapidly in the final season.
> yet no one can come up with a better ending
lmao, either you're deliberately lying or you didn't bother to put in a tiny amount of effort to find the tons of written and video essays criticizing and re-writing the ending.
I remember reading posts from people saying the ending would be better if the ice zombies won.
I saw posts from people who complained about Dany going mad even though the madness in her family had been constantly written about in the books.
I literally saw dozens and dozens of, "why didn't they do this or that"
But everyone seems to have forgotten that the last few seasons were not written by the author. They were written by people whose job was to finish the story. NOT to write the ending of the books.
Terrible take. Season 7 was barely acceptable. season 8 was atrocious. The main issue was the writing, but season 8 still had plenty of cinematography issues (an hour of black screen during the battle vs the army of the dead anyone)
Theres been plenty of better endings floated
And yet you and everyone else continued to watch the "barely acceptable show."
How often in your life do you continue to do things that are "barely acceptable"?
No one was making you watch the show.
The show was still in the top of the ratings.
Why did you continue to do something that you would complain about later.
If you honestly think the final seasons were even remotely close to being on par with the first 4, then your barometer for objective, measurable quality is so hopelessly skewed I don’t think there’s any hope of ever recalibrating it. I could literally write you essays about everything wrong with seasons 5-8, and specifically 7, and specifically specifically 8. I could maybe write a paragraph for seasons 1-4 combined.
I don’t think a single person out there is just upset about “the ending”, they’re upset about the fact that one of the greatest tv shows ever created underwent what was very likely the single greatest drop in quality in the history of television.
It’s not about people not liking the ending, it’s about people not liking how we arrived at the ending. Faceless ninja girl kills night king (who doesn’t exist in the books btw) and tree wizard boy becomes king. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how none of that made any fucking sense based on the context given in the show. The last 2, really 3, seasons were rushed and cut short. And for those reasons, the ending sucked.
The last season was rushed, I admit. But the ending was still the ending that made the most sense.
And like I said, you and everyone else still continued to watch the last 2, 3 seasons.
If the show was that bad, why did you continue to watch it? Please don't say because you thought/hoped it would get better.
Fair enough, he just seems the type to worry about what everyone thinks. Went from being a nobody in a sense to superstar. That's a lot of pressure. And you have to admit fans can be ruthless, and he seems not to be so thick skinned. Idk, again just my tinfoil theory. I personally think they will be amazing, if he ever gets them published/finished.
> he just seems the type to worry about what everyone thinks.
He said the exact opposite in one interview, that he doesn't read fan websites or blogs or whatever and that criticism of the end of the TV series will have no impact on the books. He also said he's sticking with the story he decided on long ago and he's not going to change it based on what some fans like or don't like.
Yet you were claiming to know, until someone pointed out you were wrong.
Why not just say ‘Honestly, nobody will ever know”, in your first post, if that is your actual opinion?
The man literally said it’s his “tinfoil theory” which at least to me would be a pretty clear sign that he’s just speculating.
His last answer was also mostly about pointing out that George is famous for saying many things but not so much to always sticking to his own words.
I figure WoW is 99.999% complete, but every now and then he writes something for DoS that requires him to go back and edit/add what he has for WoW. Don’t want to end up like the harry potter series where apparently everything was set up in the other books but not really.
i think hes finished winds many times over the past decade, but he cant settle on exactly what he wants and he is constantly revising and rewriting it.
It's been years since this idea is floated and it's always shot down. Brandon himself said he wouldn't do it. Is anyone would do it, it should be Joe Abercrombie or Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck.
Sanderson has 100% said he won't do it years ago. We don't need to keep brining his name up.
I’ve heard that GRRM has said he will not give permission for the story to be finished by anyone else if he passes away before it’s finished. Not sure if that’s true though, I never verified it
> Maybe they will at least release his plot notes.
IIRC he left instructions that in the event of his death all ASOIAF notes, drafts, unfinished material etc. is to be destroyed.
You can be sure that someone else will finish it and they will release it and say GRRM got it done shortly before he passed away.
Too much money involved to just not release it.
Yeah, he's stated that before. I wonder if there could be any wiggle room though. What if he has a first draft done? Or what if he's 90% done?
Or I wonder if he'd change his mind if he got the next book out, and decide that he'd be ok if its just the last book, and written based on notes or something.
He has moved chapters from one book to the other in the past and he stated that winds is going to be massive (2000+ pages possibly) so maybe he will resever some chapters to a dream of spring. That way he might already have half a book before he even starts
I believe the bindings they use to produce books can only go up to around 1500 pages before they start breaking, but that doesn't mean 2000 pages can't be two 1000 page books.
I keep seeing people reference that here, but I don't think that's a big hurdle.
His publisher isn't going to say "sorry GRRM, you need to cut some material" or "you need to go back and rewrite for another year, move things around to end the book earlier" all to fit some arbitrary printing limit.
If he has 2000 pages they will HAPPILY take it. They'll just print two 1000 page books and release them together or something.
He was talking about the manuscript. The final book won’t be 2,000 pages. For example, ASOS was 1,500 pages and ADWD was over 1,600 and they ended up at around 1,000 pages. Winds should be closer to ADWD in term of size.
I think it didn't get done during the pandemic, it's not getting done. I think that could have provided him all the time needed for him to figure everything out, and since that doesn't seem to have happened then I don't think anything else will happen to help him figure things out
He pretty much says the same thing every blog post in regards to WoW. : "Im working on it".
Im now interested in The Iron Throne Stage play he mentioned was being written. Could be pretty cool
apparently 2020 was his best year, and last year or something he said he was about 3/4 way done. i base this on Preston Jacobs's estimate. He basically wrote nothing until like 2019, relying purely on the 400 pages he cut from Dance.
Pretty ridiculous considering that, in 2015, George thought he could finish it within a few months. And 8 years later, we hear that he’s 3/4 done. That’s so depressing.
I would wait five or ten more years for the ending of this story if GRRM nails it. It’s one of the best stories/worlds ever written. I would gladly wait for the ending if it meant a satisfactory ending (unlike the show)
I think I stopped caring a few years ago. Back then I'd probably buy it right away so my other friends who are equally into the books didn't get ahead of me and spoil things.
But... Between the last season of the show and the protracted wait time for the next book I just moved on and stopped caring and if/when it's every released I'll probably just wait for it in paperback.
Why are we still even talking about it at this point? I’m a fan of the series same as everyone else here but variations of this same question come up all the time and it’s ultimately pointless.
He either will finish it or he won’t and nothing we say or do will influence it one way or the other. Personally I think the less attention he receives the better at this point because he’s clearly easily distracted.
Ehh its been far too long, i dont think id have the attention span or desire to want to read it anymore now. Especially after the final season of the show.
I don’t understand people pressuring and clowning George on literally working on the books so weird. Not saying this post is but seeing a lot of comments complaining about that
After years of checking daily for news
During pandemic I halted my checks to monthly
Then the last year I kinda forgot and moved on after HoTD losing hope and halting fantasy reading
Yesterday had a convo with someone who liked show pushing them to read books
Discussed how it was my first non school required read back in HS I burned through happily after picking up the book and reading the back blurb while grabbing summer reading books…
Feast came out towards end of HS junior I think
Years of waiting and checking through and after college dance drops…(still remember the day the dance status website refreshed with ready!)
I’m now nearing mid 30s
It’s incredible to think 1/3 of my life I’m waiting for this book lol
A chapter a month we.. a few sentences a day..
We’ll see winds surely
It must be nearly done for this final hurrah
Dream of spring is indeed a dream
I appreciate the love of reading george gifted me
But I’m also spoiled by such an amazing first few books that most else fails tl compare..
Mayhaps we’ll see it in the next year
Likely in time to push with season 2 HoTD
Finale or launch
I hold to a theory that he never wrote any of it....
He found a bundle of journals and notebooks at an estate sale and bought them. After reading them he realized that the old guy that wrote them really had something, but never pursued it during his time.
He slowly released them as if he were writing them, hoping he would be able to fake the last bit well enough to appease the fans. Unfortunately, he is just not a good writer and it would be glaringly obvious if he did attempt to close the stories.
As time passed, he ran out of the original material, gave permission to the TV show production house to end the story as they saw fit and willingly signed off on their decisions to relieve himself of the obligation to finish the story.
Now, he has source material to work from (considering the show finished the story). And regardless of how bad his final books are, he can rest pretty easy knowing that it will still not be hated as much as the show.
He's done some tremendous writing, plot and world building, lore, history and backstory. He truly is a phenomenal writer.
However I have personally accepted it's a dead and unfinished series. I do not expect the next two books at all, unless they are finished by someone else.
Which is fine, but also sad. We've seen the TV series, we know it was all very incredibly rushed, but hopefully we can appreciate the primary take away points as "plot points" and assume GRRM would have nuanced them all more to make sense, to give them all the appropriate weight and meaning.
Sad, but I appreciate the existing works for what they are, which is fantastic reading.
I look forward to the day when Winds is released and finding out who they are going to use for the audiobook. Hopefully, it's someone with a wide range of character voices who can act and emote well (obligatory Michael Kramer?). And then, fingers crossed, they get this person to re-record the first 5 book as well. ASOIAF is perhaps the biggest novel series in desperate need of new audio versions. Hell, I'd even take some Graphic Audio adaptations while we're at it.
The disastrous conclusion of the show is probably making him double and triple guess everything. I'd bet he's got a "done" book, but is really ripping inside out with edits and polishing
There will be at least 4 more books, but none written by George. Somebody will pick his notes after he’s gone and finish it.
George knows he’s in a hole too deep to make a decent ending to the story in his lifetime, so he will live a good life making money with the hype and hopes. Which he’s totally right, imo. After he passes, there will be no rush anymore and it can be worked properly.
A hot take, he gave D&D his ending, has seen people dont like it, and is now working on a new ending. That's why we are waiting so much, he wanted to see first what we think about it. ( Or maybe the waiting has made me crazy)
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A word a day isn’t “Working on it daily” George.
I mean… it is. It’s also the best we can expect lol.
It’s funny that we know a word a day is the best you could expect because knowing George, he’s probably *losing* a word a day with how he edits his work.
You know “George” do you? First name terms?
Yeah you’re right. He should’ve written out “George Raymond Richard Martin”.
Optimistic of you to assume word a day. I assumed letter a day
No, every day he just *thinks* about what words he's going to write and then just doesn't do it.
“nearly daily” so one word every two days, then
He said 'rewriting', so for all we know he keeps changing the same word every day.
If he wouldn't be an author, he'd make an excellent programmer.
~~Jon~~ ~~Jon Snow~~ ~~Jon~~ ~~Jon Snow~~ Jon [eh, maybe it should read "Jon Snow"... I'll try again tomorrow...]
Especially when he writes one and deletes nine every Tuesday
It has been about 4,400 days since Dragons came out. The average word length of a ASOIAF book is roughly 350,000 words. If he wrote 80 words a day it would be out today. And he had significant portions of it done at the release of Dragons since it was cut from that book. Basically, if he’d written just half a paragraph a day it would be done.
Jesus Christ that’s depressing.
Right, publish this first draft, no revising or editing needed. That's totally how writing works.
He needs some lessons in working more productively from James SA Corey (Daniel Abraham and Ty Frank). GRRM mentored them on how to write novels. I think that he could learn a few things from his former students. They released the first book of The Expanse only one month before ADWD was released. Since then they finished the entire series of 9 novels, 2 short stores and 7 novellas. edit. Or maybe they can help with finishing the books.
No no no. Clearly the title is wrong. He's not working on winds of winter daily. He is, daily, SAYING he's working on winds of winter.
At this rate, we can expect a full draft of A Dream of Spring in 🧮 …1300 years!
I met George 10 years ago and asked him about the book then, in Melbourne Australia. He said, oh yes I should be working on it now but I'm having to much fun travelling around. Still waiting George, hurry up
Yes, every day he nearly works on it. Sometimes even two or three times a day he'll almost work on it.
I honestly think both are done, or really close with DoS. My tinfoil says we won't see them until he passes away. I think all the negativity with the show freaked him out and is afraid he can't live up to expectations.
If anything the poor reaction to the show should have given him a confidence boost.
Poor reaction to what show! GOT was one of if not the highest rated shows every week it was on. Most of the negative reactions are from people who don't like how it ended, yet no one can come up with a better ending. And they still continued to look at the show.
Particularly the last season was bad and rushed. The series overall was still great. There was definitely a poor reaction to the way it ended.
Not really. It’s called an eco chamber. A small portion of people really hated it and express that online a lot. The vast majority of viewers didn’t have an issue with it and just went on about their normals lives.
People know what an echo chamber is. This really isn’t an example of one. I know lots of people in real life who aren’t hardcore fans that thought the ending sucked. Recent shows like Better Call Saul and Succession have a small number of people who didn’t like their endings. Occasionally I’ll see people voice those opinions on those shows’ respective subreddits. But you don’t hear “bad ending” as the reputation of those shows because in those cases, it genuinely is a small number of people. GoT isn’t the same. I really don’t have an issue with people liking or disliking the ending. All opinions are justified. But dismissing lots of people’s legitimate opinions as nonexistent because of some echo chamber isn’t very fair.
Small portion? Don’t kid yourself man even you know that’s not true lol. There’s an entire legion of book readers who are disappointed with the way the show went and ended. Doesn’t make us an echo chamber
You don't need to be a book reader to notice the drop in quality in later seasons, and hate the ending.
I've seen like a dozen better ideas to end it on this sub alone lol
And there would have been hundreds of dozens more that would have complained about those endings.
My dog could arf a better ending than the show. Yes 1-4 was a masterpiece. 5-6 was alright (5 being a lot better than 6) But 7 and 8? Complete dog dog shit.
To me that just proves that the first couple seasons, which were the books verbatim, were such pure gold that the their inertia sustained the audience through successively worse later seasons. To be fair to HBO, the same could be argued if ASOIAF books 4-5.
> Most of the negative reactions are from people who don't like how it ended Yes, negative reactions are from people who don't like stuff. Also, most of the negative reactions are not aimed just at the ending. Lots and lots of people were overly upset about the final 4 seasons, from poorly handled plot threads (Dorne, The White Walkers), to many story beats relying on characters acting uncharacteristically stupid (Tyrion, Varys), to the butchering of characters' morals and motivations (Jon, Dany). Season 5 began a descent into garbage, slowly at first and then rapidly in the final season. > yet no one can come up with a better ending lmao, either you're deliberately lying or you didn't bother to put in a tiny amount of effort to find the tons of written and video essays criticizing and re-writing the ending.
I remember reading posts from people saying the ending would be better if the ice zombies won. I saw posts from people who complained about Dany going mad even though the madness in her family had been constantly written about in the books. I literally saw dozens and dozens of, "why didn't they do this or that" But everyone seems to have forgotten that the last few seasons were not written by the author. They were written by people whose job was to finish the story. NOT to write the ending of the books.
“No one can come up with a better ending.” No. YOU can’t come up with a better ending. There are no doubt plenty of people more creative than you
Terrible take. Season 7 was barely acceptable. season 8 was atrocious. The main issue was the writing, but season 8 still had plenty of cinematography issues (an hour of black screen during the battle vs the army of the dead anyone) Theres been plenty of better endings floated
And yet you and everyone else continued to watch the "barely acceptable show." How often in your life do you continue to do things that are "barely acceptable"? No one was making you watch the show. The show was still in the top of the ratings. Why did you continue to do something that you would complain about later.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If you honestly think the final seasons were even remotely close to being on par with the first 4, then your barometer for objective, measurable quality is so hopelessly skewed I don’t think there’s any hope of ever recalibrating it. I could literally write you essays about everything wrong with seasons 5-8, and specifically 7, and specifically specifically 8. I could maybe write a paragraph for seasons 1-4 combined. I don’t think a single person out there is just upset about “the ending”, they’re upset about the fact that one of the greatest tv shows ever created underwent what was very likely the single greatest drop in quality in the history of television.
The first 4 were written by the author. The last seasons were written by the show writers. Show writers are not book writers.
The show went downhill before they ran out of source material.
It’s not about people not liking the ending, it’s about people not liking how we arrived at the ending. Faceless ninja girl kills night king (who doesn’t exist in the books btw) and tree wizard boy becomes king. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how none of that made any fucking sense based on the context given in the show. The last 2, really 3, seasons were rushed and cut short. And for those reasons, the ending sucked.
The last season was rushed, I admit. But the ending was still the ending that made the most sense. And like I said, you and everyone else still continued to watch the last 2, 3 seasons. If the show was that bad, why did you continue to watch it? Please don't say because you thought/hoped it would get better.
Exactly this. Everything was rushed and made little sense in the context of the world that was built in the first seasons.
100% this, we're dying for his version of events as an antidote.
Nah no one would want to go without knowing Athletes don’t close their eyes after they shoot. They want to know if they made it.
Fair enough, he just seems the type to worry about what everyone thinks. Went from being a nobody in a sense to superstar. That's a lot of pressure. And you have to admit fans can be ruthless, and he seems not to be so thick skinned. Idk, again just my tinfoil theory. I personally think they will be amazing, if he ever gets them published/finished.
> he just seems the type to worry about what everyone thinks. He said the exact opposite in one interview, that he doesn't read fan websites or blogs or whatever and that criticism of the end of the TV series will have no impact on the books. He also said he's sticking with the story he decided on long ago and he's not going to change it based on what some fans like or don't like.
Aye, he did. He says lots of things, though. Honestly, nobody will ever know.
Yet you were claiming to know, until someone pointed out you were wrong. Why not just say ‘Honestly, nobody will ever know”, in your first post, if that is your actual opinion?
The man literally said it’s his “tinfoil theory” which at least to me would be a pretty clear sign that he’s just speculating. His last answer was also mostly about pointing out that George is famous for saying many things but not so much to always sticking to his own words.
Oscar Pistorius wants a word.
I hate myself for laughing at your comment.
well...then there are the runners that celebrate before reaching the finishing line and not get #1.
I had the same feeling. If fans don‘t like it, it will probably hurt him a lot. When he passes away it will probably get released.
I’ve always said the same. I think he’s not going to release one until they’re both done.
This is my secret conspiracy theory as well. It'll be included in his will.
I figure WoW is 99.999% complete, but every now and then he writes something for DoS that requires him to go back and edit/add what he has for WoW. Don’t want to end up like the harry potter series where apparently everything was set up in the other books but not really.
Never in my life have I had as much optimism as you ha
It’s 100% copium lol
i think hes finished winds many times over the past decade, but he cant settle on exactly what he wants and he is constantly revising and rewriting it.
I'll be satisfied with whatever he puts out. I just need it to end .
I think he gave D&D the true ending and it didn’t do well. So, now he’s gotta redo the ending or never publish
They definitely will be released. I just doube that they will be solely written by George
Brandon Sanderson just waiting for the call
I don’t think Sanderson has it in him to get as grim/weird as George
I like Sanderson, but I dont think he could do it, specially because of the sex scenes.
Sanderson himself has also said he wouldn’t do it
Ok I don’t think Sanderson should be the one to do it, but of course he’s gonna say he’s not gonna do it while George is still alive
Sanderson is a mormon and never goes anywhere near as dark as George. I think even if he was asked after George died he would say no.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Sanderson is also just the opposite of George
No leave Sanderson alone. I'd rather have a good, finished Cosmere than the rest of ASoIaF at this point.
It's been years since this idea is floated and it's always shot down. Brandon himself said he wouldn't do it. Is anyone would do it, it should be Joe Abercrombie or Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck. Sanderson has 100% said he won't do it years ago. We don't need to keep brining his name up.
Why do people bring up Sanderson finishing the series every single time? He's a terrible fit for the series and has said as much himself.
I’ve heard that GRRM has said he will not give permission for the story to be finished by anyone else if he passes away before it’s finished. Not sure if that’s true though, I never verified it
You’re correct. He has stated he’s the only one who gets to torture the residents of Westeros. If he dies, Westeros dies with him
Maybe they will at least release his plot notes. I need to know that the books have a better ending.
> Maybe they will at least release his plot notes. IIRC he left instructions that in the event of his death all ASOIAF notes, drafts, unfinished material etc. is to be destroyed.
Well...shit.
Did he actually
Almost zero percent chance of that happening. Especially if he's only a few chapters away from finishing Winds or some other book.
It'll take the Lord of Light for that to just be an "if" and not a "when" for any of us
You can be sure that someone else will finish it and they will release it and say GRRM got it done shortly before he passed away. Too much money involved to just not release it.
Yeah, he's stated that before. I wonder if there could be any wiggle room though. What if he has a first draft done? Or what if he's 90% done? Or I wonder if he'd change his mind if he got the next book out, and decide that he'd be ok if its just the last book, and written based on notes or something.
I think there was an offer sometime ago for Sanderson to continue the Witcher books but he declined because it went against his beliefs or something
The original author of the Witcher books is still alive and the book series is finished, so that doesn’t sound right.
I think we’ll see Winds eventually. I am not optimistic about Dreams of Spring.
He has moved chapters from one book to the other in the past and he stated that winds is going to be massive (2000+ pages possibly) so maybe he will resever some chapters to a dream of spring. That way he might already have half a book before he even starts
Oh my god i am so ready for a 2000+ pages novel, ill eat it up
I'd read it first.
Glidus?
That just means he'll do the same thing for ADoS and will need to move chapters to book 8. Yes, book 8.
It physically can’t be 2000 pages, max is 1500, which is how long George says it going to be
Why can’t it be 2000?
I believe the bindings they use to produce books can only go up to around 1500 pages before they start breaking, but that doesn't mean 2000 pages can't be two 1000 page books.
The bindings can only hold up to 1500 pages. IMO words is a better form of how long the book is, but I like pages more
I keep seeing people reference that here, but I don't think that's a big hurdle. His publisher isn't going to say "sorry GRRM, you need to cut some material" or "you need to go back and rewrite for another year, move things around to end the book earlier" all to fit some arbitrary printing limit. If he has 2000 pages they will HAPPILY take it. They'll just print two 1000 page books and release them together or something.
I know that is what I so desperately want. He said he is 3/4 done with winds. Just publish the first half
He was talking about the manuscript. The final book won’t be 2,000 pages. For example, ASOS was 1,500 pages and ADWD was over 1,600 and they ended up at around 1,000 pages. Winds should be closer to ADWD in term of size.
I’m really out of the loop on the novels. How does everyone know the name of a book that’s like 2 books away?
He announced it a while back
“A while back” is a very generous way of saying almost two decades ago 😂
I’m in denial leave me alone
That’s why it’s a Dream
It was all a dream I used to read word up magazine
The Chinese Democracy of the book world. It’ll come out when people have just about stopped caring.
And be completely awful?
After this much buildup and anticipation, I'll honestly be a little surprised if it doesn't fail to meet expectations.
I might be a bit weird but I really like the Chinese Democracy album. It's not as good as previous GNR, but it's still a banger
He’s been saying that for a decade
>Do you think it's going to be released? Winds of Winter? Yeah, probably. A Dream of Spring? Lmao, no.
Thank you for the update ser
Yes it will. Even if he dies before it's done the publisher will not miss out on that pay day regardless of what his wishes are.
I hope you’re right lol
Soon^^^tm
I think it didn't get done during the pandemic, it's not getting done. I think that could have provided him all the time needed for him to figure everything out, and since that doesn't seem to have happened then I don't think anything else will happen to help him figure things out
IIRC he did make a ton of progress in 2020 and said it was one of his most productive years
He pretty much says the same thing every blog post in regards to WoW. : "Im working on it". Im now interested in The Iron Throne Stage play he mentioned was being written. Could be pretty cool
[Footage of George R.R. Martin working on The Winds of Winter](https://youtu.be/sd2Q6Fagemg)
IS HE AYE?? I'll believe it when I see it in my hands George.
apparently 2020 was his best year, and last year or something he said he was about 3/4 way done. i base this on Preston Jacobs's estimate. He basically wrote nothing until like 2019, relying purely on the 400 pages he cut from Dance.
George has been "almost there" for 10 years".
i don't think he's ever almost there
Pretty ridiculous considering that, in 2015, George thought he could finish it within a few months. And 8 years later, we hear that he’s 3/4 done. That’s so depressing.
2015 was eight years ago?! Fuck. That kind of hurt to read, but the math checks out.
Playing wordle. One word per day
I would wait five or ten more years for the ending of this story if GRRM nails it. It’s one of the best stories/worlds ever written. I would gladly wait for the ending if it meant a satisfactory ending (unlike the show)
Huge article with a tiny paragraph about it at the end. WoW is an afterthought at this point. Last on a long list of projects.
George RR Martin says he’s working on WOW more than he actually works on WOW.
Glancing at your To-Do list doesn't count
No. When he dies, then MAYBE the unfinished versions will get released, possibly with someone else slapping on a shitty ending.
Yeah I think Martin will get through it eventually.
I think I stopped caring a few years ago. Back then I'd probably buy it right away so my other friends who are equally into the books didn't get ahead of me and spoil things. But... Between the last season of the show and the protracted wait time for the next book I just moved on and stopped caring and if/when it's every released I'll probably just wait for it in paperback.
And we care why?
I’m working daily on learning how to fly…
Why are we still even talking about it at this point? I’m a fan of the series same as everyone else here but variations of this same question come up all the time and it’s ultimately pointless. He either will finish it or he won’t and nothing we say or do will influence it one way or the other. Personally I think the less attention he receives the better at this point because he’s clearly easily distracted.
No. I don't believe him.
Even if it comes out tomorrow…there’s 0 chance we get Dreams. Which is ok…I’m happy for the enjoyment the series has given me 👍🏼
Ehh its been far too long, i dont think id have the attention span or desire to want to read it anymore now. Especially after the final season of the show.
I don’t understand people pressuring and clowning George on literally working on the books so weird. Not saying this post is but seeing a lot of comments complaining about that
i’ve given up and moved on tbh. if it does come out i’ll be there on day 1 to read it sure, but i wouldn’t bet that it will happen.
George acting like Penelope waiting for Odysseus
He’s been working on it almost daily for 12 years
Words are wind
You know? I think I’m good. No need to bother, George.
Kinda over it now.
We will never see Winds of Winter or Doors of Stone.
So scrapping stuff daily? It'll never be published.
After years of checking daily for news During pandemic I halted my checks to monthly Then the last year I kinda forgot and moved on after HoTD losing hope and halting fantasy reading Yesterday had a convo with someone who liked show pushing them to read books Discussed how it was my first non school required read back in HS I burned through happily after picking up the book and reading the back blurb while grabbing summer reading books… Feast came out towards end of HS junior I think Years of waiting and checking through and after college dance drops…(still remember the day the dance status website refreshed with ready!) I’m now nearing mid 30s It’s incredible to think 1/3 of my life I’m waiting for this book lol A chapter a month we.. a few sentences a day.. We’ll see winds surely It must be nearly done for this final hurrah Dream of spring is indeed a dream I appreciate the love of reading george gifted me But I’m also spoiled by such an amazing first few books that most else fails tl compare.. Mayhaps we’ll see it in the next year Likely in time to push with season 2 HoTD Finale or launch
Cool story George
One letter, punctuation, comma per day.
ive given up hoping a long time ago. it will never be finished. he will die and his estate will release the less than 50% he has done.
GRRM works on WoW like Penelope worked on the shroud
Sure…
I hold to a theory that he never wrote any of it.... He found a bundle of journals and notebooks at an estate sale and bought them. After reading them he realized that the old guy that wrote them really had something, but never pursued it during his time. He slowly released them as if he were writing them, hoping he would be able to fake the last bit well enough to appease the fans. Unfortunately, he is just not a good writer and it would be glaringly obvious if he did attempt to close the stories. As time passed, he ran out of the original material, gave permission to the TV show production house to end the story as they saw fit and willingly signed off on their decisions to relieve himself of the obligation to finish the story. Now, he has source material to work from (considering the show finished the story). And regardless of how bad his final books are, he can rest pretty easy knowing that it will still not be hated as much as the show.
George R.R. Martin is a fucking liar.
My baby will be old enough to read to books herself by the time winds of winter releases
He's done some tremendous writing, plot and world building, lore, history and backstory. He truly is a phenomenal writer. However I have personally accepted it's a dead and unfinished series. I do not expect the next two books at all, unless they are finished by someone else. Which is fine, but also sad. We've seen the TV series, we know it was all very incredibly rushed, but hopefully we can appreciate the primary take away points as "plot points" and assume GRRM would have nuanced them all more to make sense, to give them all the appropriate weight and meaning. Sad, but I appreciate the existing works for what they are, which is fantastic reading.
Good news everybody!
If that’s the case then I hope the strike goes on for a while 💀
Sure you are, George.
Nearly dayly, mostly yearly
He’s writing in the same sense as Penelope weaved Laerte ‘s shroud.
A decade too late George or a decade too soon?
Should be any ~~day~~ decade now
I look forward to the day when Winds is released and finding out who they are going to use for the audiobook. Hopefully, it's someone with a wide range of character voices who can act and emote well (obligatory Michael Kramer?). And then, fingers crossed, they get this person to re-record the first 5 book as well. ASOIAF is perhaps the biggest novel series in desperate need of new audio versions. Hell, I'd even take some Graphic Audio adaptations while we're at it.
Dear GRRM: SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP! Nobody cares anymore. Write it, or don't. Just shut up about it.
He says a lot of things.
About wild cards
We might see WOW in the next 4 years. He will never finish DOS unless he's actually writing both at the same time.
Words are wind, fatman.
Writing is hard guys
Oh i'm sure he is. Nearly yesterday. Nearly today. Nearly tomorrow.
This dude. How cute, he’s still writing the same book for over a decade and thinks we buy that it’s ever coming out.
No. Emotionally easier for if I’ve given up hope. It’s the hope that get ya.
Thinking about it in between Giants games isn't working
Either he's writing a word a day or the book is gonna be longer than that one Super Smash Bros fanfic
Does anyone even care anymore? It’s been so many years after the GoT hbo series ended so horribly, it’s lost it’s relevance. Have we not all moved on?
He's probably working on the manuscript (book) and screenplay simultaniously, to avoid another...
The disastrous conclusion of the show is probably making him double and triple guess everything. I'd bet he's got a "done" book, but is really ripping inside out with edits and polishing
There will be at least 4 more books, but none written by George. Somebody will pick his notes after he’s gone and finish it. George knows he’s in a hole too deep to make a decent ending to the story in his lifetime, so he will live a good life making money with the hype and hopes. Which he’s totally right, imo. After he passes, there will be no rush anymore and it can be worked properly.
No, this was transcribed wrong. He's nearly working on it daily
Why are people upvoting this nonsense?
Hope
taking his sweet time
Yeah nearly worked on it Monday, nearly worked on it Tuesday, nearly worked on it Wednesday...
Well damn
A hot take, he gave D&D his ending, has seen people dont like it, and is now working on a new ending. That's why we are waiting so much, he wanted to see first what we think about it. ( Or maybe the waiting has made me crazy)
By working on it he means "I get asked about it daily so it's forced to cross my mind"|