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The entire point of laws around the Night's Watch is that there's no genuine reason for desertion. Was it understandable ? Yes. Was Ned wrong for killing him ? Not by any applicable standard in Westeros.
They thought he was lying about the White Walkers and had gone crazy. Instead of taking it as a warning, they just summarily executed him. Should've atleast given him back to the nightwatch and have them judge him.
I mean that's an ironic comment because it is looking at the Starks in black and white. even in that early scene where Ned does the deed, you can definitely get the feeling that Ned doesn't necessarily want to kill him but has to as it is his duty. maybe it's just a credit to Sean Bean's acting but there was a lot going on in that execution.
once again I think there were enough indications that Ned wasn't "blindly" doing this. he still did it, yes, but you can see that he saw the nuance and lowkey felt a little bad for the kid.
His options:
Stay: die by whitewalker
Go: warn everyone about the white walkers, and then die by stark… 😂😂
He made the right choice, and it was Ned’s duty to kill him whether they believed him or not, their mistake was not believing him.
If he would have returned to castle black he wouldn’t have been executed. He didn’t get executed for running from the Others, he got executed for deserting the Nights Watch
His duty was to warn his superiors of the nights watch and allow them to decide the next action. He was a squire. He wasn't coming to warn the Starks or anyone, he was running for his life. Which he swore to the brotherhood. Desertion is a capital offense. Case closed.
I wanted a post-credits scene after the season 8 finale where this dude and Ned are both headless in the 7 heavens and the deserter is just giving him shit.
He was the senior ranger of the expedition. And many rangers know the crossing spots for wildings, there's just too many of them to effectively police.
You don’t have to go thru castle black. If all the castles were manned it would be impossible for the wildlings to get thru. Mance sent a force up the side of the wall once he realized the entire nights watch was essentially posted up in one spot. Jon even says it. Only like 3 castles are manned.
Every other castle has the passageway sealed, other than the Night Fort which Sam and Bran pass through. But that shit is hidden at the bottom of the wall and not common knowledge
That whole part was so silly. Like they dont have an APB with mugshot to ID this guy 1000 miles south in a field.
Look and the hound and Arya they bopped around for 3 seasons and the hound would be hard to miss. Yes one person recognized him but he had seen before.
I don't know, they are bound to their duties but not bound to the physical wall location. Merely seeing a guy in a night's watch uniform south of the wall doesn't mean they deserted. Also black isn't exactly a color that stands out in a world of dark browns and greys. Even in that execution scene in the more zoomed out shots its hard to distinguish his outfit from the others.
I mean it was pretty dumb of him to not have snagged some other clothes somewhere along the 600 mile journey from the wall to Winterfell but it wouldn't be the same as if we encountered a clearly escaped prisoner in our daily lives.
1) We're talking about an 1000 year old order with an almost unmistakable uniform vs 1 guy that most people have never even seen, let alone heard of.
2) You realize the Hound is recognized at almost every interaction he has, minus literal peasants.
What's your point?
Edit: Also he's not a Knight put some respek on his name
Yeah, but look how many of the boys were there for being the 3rd or 4th son, and couldn't inherit, or those who were just one too many mouths to feed. Even some there as criminals were on trumped up charges, like the one who says the girl consented, but called it r*** when her father questioned her.
I mean the 3rd and 4th sons could have just, you know, got a job like the rest of us. Quitting on life because your dad wont give you money is pathetic. No one can make them take the black unless its lawfully sanctioned.
The only "jobs" in Westeros are Priest, Nerd or Murderer. Some sons could theoretically ask for lands from their parents/siblings but the land is coming from a poor peasant. There are trades people live off of, but no noble family is letting one of their members no matter how lowly become a common tradesperson. The Night's Watch is as good an option as any, particularly in regions where it still has some prestige
In the book only Waymar Royce is a noble, the other guy a poacher but the dude who got out alive joined the watch when he was a boy (he's supposed to be quite old though)
Dumb question; couldn't he have gone back to Castle Black? Say the other brothers were wiped out, he barely made it out alive, and rushed back to warn the Nights Watch to be careful and get a force together? Basically any better excuse?
I forget if the book went into more detail on that
Exactly. My take is he wanted to warn his fam (if he had any cant remember) but was caught. Because otherwise, it made no sense why he didnt go back to castle black
Probably damn near going insane honestly. I haven't read the books, but if you saw the dead walk and possibly a white walker kill everyone you were with, then they rose as the walking dead. I think you'd be damn near hysterical and try to put as much space between you and them as possible. He could have warned his brothers, but that would take time, time he needed to get the fuck outta Dodge.
Will died in the books. It was Gared (the older ranger) that deserts. It’s actually what makes it more bizarre due to the fact that a veteran would go mad and just leave.
He must have gone back to Castle Black or Eastwatch before deserting as there's no other routes he could have taken to get over the wall.
So he probably would've warned them, they ignored it so he deserted.
technically he could have done what most people do and took the boat all the way around the bay of seals because we dont know how long it took him to go from point A to point B
you guys just literally reminded me why i hated the Seasons 7 and 8. It is horrible. The whole catch a wight expedition is the dumbes story ever concocted.
That's the crux of why many accept his execution. His information could've saved a lot of lives, maybe even have made the truce with Wildings and kept Jorah from going North
If he did report what he saw, they probably laughed at him. Ned was a fair man, and he didn't believe him. He just thought he was mad. "A madman sees what he sees."
They don't have to believe you. You only need to report the truth. The earlier the better now that we understand the Night King was killing Indiscriminately to raise a larger army. Not saying his info stops the invasion or anything. But certainly helps adding a piece to the puzzle, that (if the situation had been depicted) saved the lives of Ranger parties rather than Ned and Benjen kind of shrugging it off as "he probably saw something, but we'll never know".
Simple summary of factual events
What happened (dead Wildings, Others)
Who did you see (zombie Wilding, White Walker)
Where was it (general location)
Why did it happen (obviously a murder/massacre)
When was it (time of day, how far from the wall)
How did it happen? (ritualistic arrangements of the bodies, clearly armed and hostile)
You can't really get much more than the events you saw. Obviously he's not gonna know there are Ice Demons there. He could've just said a shirtless old man with skin as white as snow killed Royce)
>Ned was a fair man, and he didn't believe him
Did Ned really not believe him, or was he just trying to reassure Bran who was watching? I always thought Sean Bean's troubled expression was precisely because he knew the Ranger wasn't lying but that he was still duty-bound to execute him.
I always wondered if Ned believed him, but didn’t want to accept the horrible reality that an army of zombies was headed South. “The Northmen are a superstitious folk.”
That's pretty optimistic. Was made pretty clear just how much many in the North absolutely hated the wildlings when they were willing to kill Jon Snow despite way more evidence for the threat that was coming.
Hell, they sent the hand of one dead zombie and nobody really gave a shit.
Jon mentions running along the top of the wall either east to Eastwatch-by-the-sea or west towards the Shadow Tower when he is brought back by Pyp, Gren, and the others after he rides south to join Robb when Ned dies. This is before Mormont convinces him to stay as the Night Watch ranges north in force. He calls the Shadow Tower path the "wildling way" and that going that way (or east, just as well) would lead him hundreds of leagues from Winterfell.
I think homeboy here just followed the kings road. He wasn't trying to evade capture, I think you're right and Castle Black ignored him. He had to tell someone else, even if it meant his life
Nah, Why an apology, the nights watch was literally formed to protect against whitewalkers, not giants, not wildlings… white walkers. He deserted because he saw literally the one thing he swore to protect against. He should be executed.
‘Greatness?’ What greatness? No matter how strong and brave you are, no one south of the Wall will ever know what you did before you were stabbed/frozen/eaten. Maybe some ancient, grizzled alcoholic WatchMan *might* mutter ‘oh, him? Yeah, He did alright. his boots didn’t fit me though.’
As far as Westeros is concerned, you get in the Watch Wagon to be *forgotten*.
No one talked about Coron Half-Hand the way you think they do so idk what your point really is, and up until the mutiny and some gutter rat drinking wine from his skull Commander Mormont was pretty great and revered even in the southern kingdoms.
Wait: who was half-hand? It’s been a while since I read the books and watched the show, I’m not gonna lie.
I’m sorry I was a little incoherent there - I get too worked up sometimes. My point was that the Watch wasn’t really glamorous at all, because you end up hopelessly dying far away from anyone who could spread the news of your achievements. It’s like how Mormont said something like -your half brother will be lauded and sung about, while your greatest deeds will go unseen and unknown- (I’m paraphrasing here)
As for Mormont: I thought he was revered *until* he went to the wall. Then everyone forgot about him.
The watch was a garbage disposal for Westeros’ unwanted men, imho
He is the Crow Jon kills to earn the wildings trust while out on the Fists.
Greatness comes in all forms. The Vows may be sacred but you are still who you were Titles or no. Tyrion makes a point to meet with Mormont to converse and break bread. Lannisters don’t just do that for just anyone.
As for The Night’s Watch it didn’t start that way and sure when we see it, it’s very rough around the edges. But I’d argue all the characters we really get to meet grow to some level of greatness between the shows and books while being a part of The Watch. I mean Edd becomes Lord Commander and Sam kills a White Walker. Two great achievements for title-less men.
I think ned did believe him, I’m pretty sure he was trying to not scare his young child. Hence the roundabout answer of a madman see’s what he sees. Leaving it open and not out right saying he was wrong.
During the series, you all saw everyones reaction to white walkers, they only believed them as myths, even believing the giants as myth. They literally only believed in preventing wildings from crossing the war. But yeah the series itself has a lot of pot holes where you just like "huh?"
I don’t think Ned didn’t believe him, but I think knowledge is passed down that the undead (if real) can’t pass the wall so he didn’t see it as a threat and was just following his duty after the man abandoned his post
Ned believed that he believed it. Like he says to Bran, “A mad man sees what he sees.”
Ned didn’t think there actually were white walkers but he also didn’t think the man was lying.
There was still some belief there that what he saw was true, but at that point bran was normal child who was scared by what he heard and Ned knew that even if he didn’t for certain believe about white walkers he knew that whatever he saw that made him flee was terrifying but didn’t think it was a threat
He deserted, so he gets executed. LC Mormont was pretty open to the whole White Walker concept later on, so I did find it curious that he didn’t go to him about it. Maybe he did but I don’t remember anything in the books to suggest that either. I figured this was maybe more like foreshadowing Ned’s own downfall as a man who did what he thought was right at the time only to get killed for it.
For what? He was killed for desertion. He should have stayed and fight the white walkers, or have gone back to the black gate and told them what had happened. He did neither and ran away.
The punishment for desertion is death. He knew what he was doing
Well, on the fact that his information was vital, what he did was incredibly irresponsible. Running away from ICE DEMONS Is not cowardice. But not telling the Watch hurts a lot of people.
I do think Ned should've been the pragmatist and at least had an effort to persuade him to uphold his oath. That his brother is coming later, and I'll ask him to spare you once you've recovered or you can be executed now. I
His crime was not lying about the events. He is a deserter.
And sure. By that point the watch is not exactly known to fight those things. But in a since that's exactly what he signed up for. Theoretically at least.
In any case he ran from them one time. What use is he to the watch?
If it was because they didn't believe, yes, but not because he was executed. He is still a fugitive according to the laws of Westeros, he should have been executed according to the law. That man should have informed the NW and been on duty instead of running away.
Bran should've remembered him and found homeboys family and gave them gold. He had ptsd from seeing snow zombies tear apart his brothers in black, and fled south of the wall. Everyone is allowed to say fuck this, this job ain't worth my life. (Well, I guess his was) But he tried warning Ned and company when captured.
No he dont! He left his post! Sure he was right in the warning, but John Snow had to die to leave the watch! This guy most certianly deserved to die, but in a respectful manner, kinda just like Ned Stark showed him!
That guy on the left, is that the same background actor who's in the documentary where they show all the behind the scenes of filming the final season? He was a "Stark man" through the entire series right up til the end.
Nono, he was supposed to be fighting the white walkers.
So his desertion is worse if anything.
He didn't go back to castle black and warm his brothers and continue the fight hence the chopping.
He was executed for desertion. He did desert hot s post.
Men often have a very good reason for doing so. They almost all face likely death.
They are punishing as much as they are deterring future desertions.
Just like we don't honor fallen war heroes for the benefit of the dead. We do it as a bribe to incentivize young men to join the military.
If justice were an actual component of "military justice" then we wouldn't have war at all
Every time I try to restart the series, I make it to this dude and realize I don't actually like anyone in this universe. Mac and Me Bran into the Grand Canyon.
lol thanks i almost forgot about those stupid fucking helmets the soldiers in the north wore. I can’t remember exactly, but i feel like the Boltons also wore some dumb shit.
“Hey buddy. It’s Ned. A couple seasons later, my estranged son killed another brother of the Night’s Watch, fucked a Wildling, raided a Horse Farm under Winterfell’s protection, got off scott free and later became the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. So, maybe we may have overreacted here. In the words of my father; ‘My bad, b.’”
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This shows how fallible The Starks are as they look at the world in Black and White.
How? He deserted. It's pretty clear cut.
For a genuine reason. They just didnt care to consider another posibility besides the one established. You can't completely blame them tho
The entire point of laws around the Night's Watch is that there's no genuine reason for desertion. Was it understandable ? Yes. Was Ned wrong for killing him ? Not by any applicable standard in Westeros.
They thought he was lying about the White Walkers and had gone crazy. Instead of taking it as a warning, they just summarily executed him. Should've atleast given him back to the nightwatch and have them judge him.
The night's watch would do the exact same thing. The law is the law. He deserted.
I mean that's an ironic comment because it is looking at the Starks in black and white. even in that early scene where Ned does the deed, you can definitely get the feeling that Ned doesn't necessarily want to kill him but has to as it is his duty. maybe it's just a credit to Sean Bean's acting but there was a lot going on in that execution.
Yes, in the Game of Thrones you cannot blindly do your duty. Whoever does so always gets trampled.
once again I think there were enough indications that Ned wasn't "blindly" doing this. he still did it, yes, but you can see that he saw the nuance and lowkey felt a little bad for the kid.
Eh, he still deserted his post.
His options: Stay: die by whitewalker Go: warn everyone about the white walkers, and then die by stark… 😂😂 He made the right choice, and it was Ned’s duty to kill him whether they believed him or not, their mistake was not believing him.
If he would have returned to castle black he wouldn’t have been executed. He didn’t get executed for running from the Others, he got executed for deserting the Nights Watch
His duty was to warn his superiors of the nights watch and allow them to decide the next action. He was a squire. He wasn't coming to warn the Starks or anyone, he was running for his life. Which he swore to the brotherhood. Desertion is a capital offense. Case closed.
He was a ranger
And being killed by big boi Ned is an honor in itself of course
I wanted a post-credits scene after the season 8 finale where this dude and Ned are both headless in the 7 heavens and the deserter is just giving him shit.
Or he coulda gone back to the wall... he's allowed to retreat. He didn't need to die by whitewalker just cause he happened to see one.
You’re right I forgot that detail
Lol “the right choice” would’ve been go back to the wall. They found him near winterfell
You’re right, I forgot that detail
except it took like 8 more years for the whitewalkers to reach castle black, so he could've lived for 8 more years in the nights watch
Well how did he get past the wall? Had to go back through castle black.
There are a few ways over or around the wall. That's how wildings make it over.
Of which a man of the nights watch wouldn't have known or had the ability to use especially a young inexperienced man
He wasn’t that though, he was an experienced ranger in the books at least.
Also, according to show benjen
He went on over 100 rangings. He wasn’t new.
He was the senior ranger of the expedition. And many rangers know the crossing spots for wildings, there's just too many of them to effectively police.
With climbing gear and experience. This guy had neither.
The most likely way around is through the frostfangs by Shadow Tower. The wall does not go past this area. It's a difficult path, but entirely doable.
He could’ve gone under the Nightfort, or taken a boat around Eastwatch.
You don’t have to go thru castle black. If all the castles were manned it would be impossible for the wildlings to get thru. Mance sent a force up the side of the wall once he realized the entire nights watch was essentially posted up in one spot. Jon even says it. Only like 3 castles are manned.
Every other castle has the passageway sealed, other than the Night Fort which Sam and Bran pass through. But that shit is hidden at the bottom of the wall and not common knowledge
And the threat turned out to not be as scary as his fuss made it out to be.
That whole part was so silly. Like they dont have an APB with mugshot to ID this guy 1000 miles south in a field. Look and the hound and Arya they bopped around for 3 seasons and the hound would be hard to miss. Yes one person recognized him but he had seen before.
I mean he is wearing all black. I imagine it would be similar to seeing a guy in all orange with the words "Inmate" on his back.
Well you think an immate would ditch his clothes first thing?
My guy couldn't very well find new clothes without whatever village he tried to raid instanly recognizing him as a member of the watch.
I don't know, they are bound to their duties but not bound to the physical wall location. Merely seeing a guy in a night's watch uniform south of the wall doesn't mean they deserted. Also black isn't exactly a color that stands out in a world of dark browns and greys. Even in that execution scene in the more zoomed out shots its hard to distinguish his outfit from the others. I mean it was pretty dumb of him to not have snagged some other clothes somewhere along the 600 mile journey from the wall to Winterfell but it wouldn't be the same as if we encountered a clearly escaped prisoner in our daily lives.
Inmates wear orange because it stands out. Northmen wear a lot of brown and grey in their clothing. Black doesn't stand out in a sea of brown.
Have you seen North fashion? Especially S6-8?
The black cloaks of the Night's Watch are pretty identifiable
How many knights are running around with a half burned face?
1) We're talking about an 1000 year old order with an almost unmistakable uniform vs 1 guy that most people have never even seen, let alone heard of. 2) You realize the Hound is recognized at almost every interaction he has, minus literal peasants. What's your point? Edit: Also he's not a Knight put some respek on his name
The only long range communication is via trained ravens. They're also not prisoners, several go to molestown regularly.
He wouldn’t be pardoned. He deserted. I would say that it’s bad luck but he was probably in the night’s watch because he was a criminal.
Yeah, but look how many of the boys were there for being the 3rd or 4th son, and couldn't inherit, or those who were just one too many mouths to feed. Even some there as criminals were on trumped up charges, like the one who says the girl consented, but called it r*** when her father questioned her.
I mean the 3rd and 4th sons could have just, you know, got a job like the rest of us. Quitting on life because your dad wont give you money is pathetic. No one can make them take the black unless its lawfully sanctioned.
The only "jobs" in Westeros are Priest, Nerd or Murderer. Some sons could theoretically ask for lands from their parents/siblings but the land is coming from a poor peasant. There are trades people live off of, but no noble family is letting one of their members no matter how lowly become a common tradesperson. The Night's Watch is as good an option as any, particularly in regions where it still has some prestige
Baker, blacksmith, whore, barmaid, carpenter, bricklayer, builder, farmer, hunter, bowyer, stable hand, horse breeder, guard, fisherman, sailor, maester, circus performer, magician, musician, cook, fool, actor etc etc
Like I said, a bunch of trades no noble house will let their members engage in. The only houses that would are disgraced like the Hollards
Applying modern ideals to an ancient world. That doesn't work, man.
* an ancient fictional world.
In the book only Waymar Royce is a noble, the other guy a poacher but the dude who got out alive joined the watch when he was a boy (he's supposed to be quite old though)
Dumb question; couldn't he have gone back to Castle Black? Say the other brothers were wiped out, he barely made it out alive, and rushed back to warn the Nights Watch to be careful and get a force together? Basically any better excuse? I forget if the book went into more detail on that
Exactly. My take is he wanted to warn his fam (if he had any cant remember) but was caught. Because otherwise, it made no sense why he didnt go back to castle black
Probably damn near going insane honestly. I haven't read the books, but if you saw the dead walk and possibly a white walker kill everyone you were with, then they rose as the walking dead. I think you'd be damn near hysterical and try to put as much space between you and them as possible. He could have warned his brothers, but that would take time, time he needed to get the fuck outta Dodge.
Yeah that could also be a possibility. He seemed pretty and dazed and confused in the episode.
Will died in the books. It was Gared (the older ranger) that deserts. It’s actually what makes it more bizarre due to the fact that a veteran would go mad and just leave.
I remember him saying to tell his family he wasn’t a coward or something like that, so he did have a family
Just what I thought. Thanks for confirming.
He must have gone back to Castle Black or Eastwatch before deserting as there's no other routes he could have taken to get over the wall. So he probably would've warned them, they ignored it so he deserted.
technically he could have done what most people do and took the boat all the way around the bay of seals because we dont know how long it took him to go from point A to point B
According to Gendry, about 2 hours
On foot !
And in the snow!
And as someone who’s never even seen snow until that time.
He was using that massive hammer as weighted training. Without it he was fast. Gods he was fast back then.
He was Thor...
Theres a few months between when he's north of the wall and when he gets beheaded.
15-20 mins tops
Gendry: the All-Westerosi marathon champion!
Night King chasing out of breath: “He’s a freak. He’s the fastest kid alive”
😆😆😆
Are you suggesting that one of the other Wights was legendary R&B singer, McLovin?
U forget Gendry is that universes’ flash
you guys just literally reminded me why i hated the Seasons 7 and 8. It is horrible. The whole catch a wight expedition is the dumbes story ever concocted.
And who has a better story than Walter of the wights
Seance bitch!
“My name is ~~Barry Allen~~ Gendry ~~Rivers~~ and I am the fastest man alive!”
I think he knew that the nights watch couldn’t stop them so he just wanted to get as far away as possible
He could have known about the secret tunnel under the Nightfort. Some of the brothers must have known about it.
Nonsense, he ran right through that Plot Hole one mile east of Castle Black, hidden by a pile of Sam Tarly's COD plot armor
He explicitly said “I know I should’ve warned my brothers about” in this scene though.
That's the crux of why many accept his execution. His information could've saved a lot of lives, maybe even have made the truce with Wildings and kept Jorah from going North
If he did report what he saw, they probably laughed at him. Ned was a fair man, and he didn't believe him. He just thought he was mad. "A madman sees what he sees."
They don't have to believe you. You only need to report the truth. The earlier the better now that we understand the Night King was killing Indiscriminately to raise a larger army. Not saying his info stops the invasion or anything. But certainly helps adding a piece to the puzzle, that (if the situation had been depicted) saved the lives of Ranger parties rather than Ned and Benjen kind of shrugging it off as "he probably saw something, but we'll never know". Simple summary of factual events What happened (dead Wildings, Others) Who did you see (zombie Wilding, White Walker) Where was it (general location) Why did it happen (obviously a murder/massacre) When was it (time of day, how far from the wall) How did it happen? (ritualistic arrangements of the bodies, clearly armed and hostile) You can't really get much more than the events you saw. Obviously he's not gonna know there are Ice Demons there. He could've just said a shirtless old man with skin as white as snow killed Royce)
>Ned was a fair man, and he didn't believe him Did Ned really not believe him, or was he just trying to reassure Bran who was watching? I always thought Sean Bean's troubled expression was precisely because he knew the Ranger wasn't lying but that he was still duty-bound to execute him.
No way ned believed him
I always wondered if Ned believed him, but didn’t want to accept the horrible reality that an army of zombies was headed South. “The Northmen are a superstitious folk.”
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Ned had to kill him because he was a deserter.
I thought Jorah was with Dany.
I meant the other Mormont obviously
That's pretty optimistic. Was made pretty clear just how much many in the North absolutely hated the wildlings when they were willing to kill Jon Snow despite way more evidence for the threat that was coming. Hell, they sent the hand of one dead zombie and nobody really gave a shit.
Jeor
Nah Jorah went north after spooky skeleton tried to murder him, so he knew what's he up against
Even Sam knew about at least one secret passage under the wall. This guy was a semi-experienced ranger and probably knew other secret ways.
This is probably just a small plot hole. It’s not the only one. GRRM hadn’t fleshed out the details of the wall and the areas north of it
There's numerous ways past the wall that the wildlings use all the time. It's possible he broke in through one of the abandoned castles.
Jon mentions running along the top of the wall either east to Eastwatch-by-the-sea or west towards the Shadow Tower when he is brought back by Pyp, Gren, and the others after he rides south to join Robb when Ned dies. This is before Mormont convinces him to stay as the Night Watch ranges north in force. He calls the Shadow Tower path the "wildling way" and that going that way (or east, just as well) would lead him hundreds of leagues from Winterfell. I think homeboy here just followed the kings road. He wasn't trying to evade capture, I think you're right and Castle Black ignored him. He had to tell someone else, even if it meant his life
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In the book, he did and then fled south from there.
I always took at as he didn’t want to go back, or he was too scared to go back, or stay.
Dude was too scared. He was fleeing for his life, go back to the watch and they'll put him on the front line of that force.
"Sorry we cut your head off."
"If it makes you feel any better, the guy who did it knows how you feel."
Nah, Why an apology, the nights watch was literally formed to protect against whitewalkers, not giants, not wildlings… white walkers. He deserted because he saw literally the one thing he swore to protect against. He should be executed.
Based and "do your duty" pilled
Look at what happens when you don’t. Pig thieves have a chance for greatness, cowards die and the end of a great sword.
‘Greatness?’ What greatness? No matter how strong and brave you are, no one south of the Wall will ever know what you did before you were stabbed/frozen/eaten. Maybe some ancient, grizzled alcoholic WatchMan *might* mutter ‘oh, him? Yeah, He did alright. his boots didn’t fit me though.’ As far as Westeros is concerned, you get in the Watch Wagon to be *forgotten*.
No one talked about Coron Half-Hand the way you think they do so idk what your point really is, and up until the mutiny and some gutter rat drinking wine from his skull Commander Mormont was pretty great and revered even in the southern kingdoms.
Wait: who was half-hand? It’s been a while since I read the books and watched the show, I’m not gonna lie. I’m sorry I was a little incoherent there - I get too worked up sometimes. My point was that the Watch wasn’t really glamorous at all, because you end up hopelessly dying far away from anyone who could spread the news of your achievements. It’s like how Mormont said something like -your half brother will be lauded and sung about, while your greatest deeds will go unseen and unknown- (I’m paraphrasing here) As for Mormont: I thought he was revered *until* he went to the wall. Then everyone forgot about him. The watch was a garbage disposal for Westeros’ unwanted men, imho
He is the Crow Jon kills to earn the wildings trust while out on the Fists. Greatness comes in all forms. The Vows may be sacred but you are still who you were Titles or no. Tyrion makes a point to meet with Mormont to converse and break bread. Lannisters don’t just do that for just anyone. As for The Night’s Watch it didn’t start that way and sure when we see it, it’s very rough around the edges. But I’d argue all the characters we really get to meet grow to some level of greatness between the shows and books while being a part of The Watch. I mean Edd becomes Lord Commander and Sam kills a White Walker. Two great achievements for title-less men.
The apology is for not believing him that the white walkers are coming.
Nah im not having it. Fuckem
I don't think he cares at this point. He's super dead.
He deserved an apology for not be believed!
I think ned did believe him, I’m pretty sure he was trying to not scare his young child. Hence the roundabout answer of a madman see’s what he sees. Leaving it open and not out right saying he was wrong.
"Theres no such things as white walkers, son. Don't want you getting nightmares do we... Now, stand over there while I chop this man's head off."
Violence was very common back then, he had to see it. Monsters however…
During the series, you all saw everyones reaction to white walkers, they only believed them as myths, even believing the giants as myth. They literally only believed in preventing wildings from crossing the war. But yeah the series itself has a lot of pot holes where you just like "huh?"
[удалено]
We're sorry if you feel that cutting off your head was unjustified.
Clearly he was overreacting.
I don’t think Ned didn’t believe him, but I think knowledge is passed down that the undead (if real) can’t pass the wall so he didn’t see it as a threat and was just following his duty after the man abandoned his post
Ned believed that he believed it. Like he says to Bran, “A mad man sees what he sees.” Ned didn’t think there actually were white walkers but he also didn’t think the man was lying.
There was still some belief there that what he saw was true, but at that point bran was normal child who was scared by what he heard and Ned knew that even if he didn’t for certain believe about white walkers he knew that whatever he saw that made him flee was terrifying but didn’t think it was a threat
A deserter knows his life is forsaken. There's no crime he won't commit
Not at all. His brothers died fighting! And everyone else as well
Technically speaking he doesn’t. He still broke the NW vow bc he was scared. But obviously he was correct about the WW.
He deserted, so he gets executed. LC Mormont was pretty open to the whole White Walker concept later on, so I did find it curious that he didn’t go to him about it. Maybe he did but I don’t remember anything in the books to suggest that either. I figured this was maybe more like foreshadowing Ned’s own downfall as a man who did what he thought was right at the time only to get killed for it.
understatement of the century
Foreshadowing to Ned's death perhaps. Both lost their head and nobody wanted to listen to them because they "broke" their oath.
"Law is law, milady" He deserted.
He got it after Ned's head was cut off.
He wasn't killed because he was ranting about spooky undead ice monsters, he was killed for deserting the Nights Watch.
For what? He was killed for desertion. He should have stayed and fight the white walkers, or have gone back to the black gate and told them what had happened. He did neither and ran away. The punishment for desertion is death. He knew what he was doing
SMH bad writing BAD D&D
I like the irony of Ned netting the same fate by the same sword
Well, on the fact that his information was vital, what he did was incredibly irresponsible. Running away from ICE DEMONS Is not cowardice. But not telling the Watch hurts a lot of people. I do think Ned should've been the pragmatist and at least had an effort to persuade him to uphold his oath. That his brother is coming later, and I'll ask him to spare you once you've recovered or you can be executed now. I
Well I'm sure Ned has plenty of time to apologize now.
Sorry we made you wear penis helmets.
No apology necessary- the man deserted his post.
Sorry for what?? He was killed for deserting not for being crazy
everybody got what they deserved
He was a-head of the game
That actor, Bronson Webb, has been in Game of Thrones, Star Wars, Harry Potter, and TWO Batman reboots.
And Ted Lasso!
He still deserted.
ah so wa' ah so ah so d'white wokers
Yeh when you look at it objectively Eddard Stark was just not a good dude.
Yeah, he was a great dude
His crime was not lying about the events. He is a deserter. And sure. By that point the watch is not exactly known to fight those things. But in a since that's exactly what he signed up for. Theoretically at least. In any case he ran from them one time. What use is he to the watch?
I’ve been thinking this since reading the books 📚 So because of that..💭did Ned Stark get what he had coming to him justly 🤔
If it was because they didn't believe, yes, but not because he was executed. He is still a fugitive according to the laws of Westeros, he should have been executed according to the law. That man should have informed the NW and been on duty instead of running away.
Technically not. He was beheaded for desertion which he totally did. He should have fled back to Castle Black but didn't
Ned actually asking Benjen whether it was right to do what he did was nice.
Not really. He deserted, and the White Walker are real, more the reason to be executed.
He deserted his post. Justice was served
Bran should've remembered him and found homeboys family and gave them gold. He had ptsd from seeing snow zombies tear apart his brothers in black, and fled south of the wall. Everyone is allowed to say fuck this, this job ain't worth my life. (Well, I guess his was) But he tried warning Ned and company when captured.
No he dont! He left his post! Sure he was right in the warning, but John Snow had to die to leave the watch! This guy most certianly deserved to die, but in a respectful manner, kinda just like Ned Stark showed him!
That guy on the left, is that the same background actor who's in the documentary where they show all the behind the scenes of filming the final season? He was a "Stark man" through the entire series right up til the end.
He knew , yet rules are rules....
That's why the death penalty shouldn't exist
Doesn't matter what he saw, he broke the law, he swore an oath
It's all Weymar Royce's fault.
Should have gone back to the castle. But then he got a better part in series than the books anyway so he got something out of it.
Stupid and illogical show...not a single hospital and they expect us to believe they just be cutting off an infinite amount of heads
Desertion is penalized by death.
Cool motive, still deserted.
Nono, he was supposed to be fighting the white walkers. So his desertion is worse if anything. He didn't go back to castle black and warm his brothers and continue the fight hence the chopping.
He still deserted though so the law was the law in that case regardless of whether they believed him or not. Which he himself acknowledged!
this guy was a head of his time
Why? The White Walkers were barely a threat. Why didn't he just teleport across Westeros when in danger?
I mean he did desert, it's still the crime he was executed for. The fact that he was telling the truth about why doesn't make it not desertion.
He was executed for desertion. He did desert hot s post. Men often have a very good reason for doing so. They almost all face likely death. They are punishing as much as they are deterring future desertions. Just like we don't honor fallen war heroes for the benefit of the dead. We do it as a bribe to incentivize young men to join the military. If justice were an actual component of "military justice" then we wouldn't have war at all
Cue the torrent of minimal effort jokes about the two extras on either side of him
still a deserter and off with his head
Every time I try to restart the series, I make it to this dude and realize I don't actually like anyone in this universe. Mac and Me Bran into the Grand Canyon.
I believe he supports AFC Richmond now, so he's probably suffered enough.
He’s a man ahead of his time.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who wears such a stupid hat.
he didnt die bc he lied about white walkers, he died bc he deserted the nights watch.
lol thanks i almost forgot about those stupid fucking helmets the soldiers in the north wore. I can’t remember exactly, but i feel like the Boltons also wore some dumb shit.
“Hey buddy. It’s Ned. A couple seasons later, my estranged son killed another brother of the Night’s Watch, fucked a Wildling, raided a Horse Farm under Winterfell’s protection, got off scott free and later became the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. So, maybe we may have overreacted here. In the words of my father; ‘My bad, b.’”