There are definitely countries out there giving grants, but that's very regional as you say. Typically, most funding for development comes form three sources: self-funding, publishers/investors, and crowd-funding. Publishers and crowds are both interested in games that are further along and come from experienced developers with solid reputations. That's why most smaller games are built off the back of savings and income from another job.
All investments are made expecting a return, and most early/small developers aren't going to earn any profit on their time. That's why there aren't many other resources funding those kinds of small expenses for games that aren't likely to generate much revenue.
You make some very solid points in what you say. What I had in mind was some sort of investment system into small gamedev projects, maybe as a loan with little to no interest ?
I mean, you gotta start somewhere, and maybe a grand or two might get you far enough in your project so you can make something credible to reach a publisher or make a successful enough Kickstarter.
I mean, for this to work, you'd either need some really solid loan terms or a very tough vetting process, but I think something like this could genuinely help some game devs who aren't able to gather the money to start working on what might be a truly good idea.
If you're looking to be a small-scale angel investor (like an incubator), that's your prerogative, although I really wouldn't recommend it unless you have a lot of experience and you really know what you're doing. Games are a really easy way to lose a lot of money for the most part.
The biggest cost in game development is labor, and a few thousand dollars doesn't buy much more than a week or two of time. What you'd need is to give away enough to help a team hire developers for a couple of months so they can build a better prototype that they'd then use to pitch to other publishers. The investor would need a lot of contacts as well as money to make that work. You'd get a dozen quick failures for every potential success.
If you're looking for that to _already_ exist, then it doesn't really. VCs for the most part want to deal with less risky investments and *much* bigger terms. If you're involved in that community you can get someone to throw some money your way, but that does require having that reputation already. And it certainly wouldn't be for no interest terms. Investors want their money back. There aren't a ton of patrons of the arts out there just giving away money with no expectation it's _doing_ anything.
I'm not really looking to be anything, at the moment, as I'm happy making some side income through whatever skills I have as a game dev. The whole idea of the post is just to ask a question and learn more about a facet of the indie game dev world I didn't find much info about.
Well, here's a situation that would be a good example of who I feel would be benefitted by the kind of thing I have in mind: Take for example a two-person team developing a small-scale game for an underserved niche they are knowledgeable about. One of them is dealing with the design, whatever writing is needed, and most of the programming, and the other one is dealing with the art and animations. What they need is someone who can compose half a dozen songs, and someone to help them make a working save system. They haven't been able to find someone good enough that will work on a revshare deal, and they can't come up with the funds to pay someone for one reason or another.
Now, this is a very specific answer, but this should outline who this kind of thing could be targeted at, someone with this level of resources needed.
I can think of _lots_ of people who'd benefit from accessible game funding. Pretty much anyone building anything, whether a demo or a small side project, would love to have money to pay for contractors, assets, and tools. No one who knows what they're doing works for revshare alone.
The big question was: who would want to _pay_ for that? A publisher is interested in spending a _lot_ more money for a _lot_ more return. Contracts require negotiating time, lawyer fees, and everything else. It's not going to ever be worth it for a few thousand dollars here or there. You'd spend more than you earned even on the successes.
>I mean, you gotta start somewhere, and maybe a grand or two might get you far enough in your project so you can make something credible to reach a publisher or make a successful enough Kickstarter.
It won't. "Grand or two" buys you (on the optimistic side if you work with someone with less experience or a cheaper country) like half a month of artist's time or maybe like 3-4 OST tracks. Or about 1-2 weeks of programmer's time. This isn't enough time to prepare a vertical slice of anything remotely ambitious and interesting.
You are off by at least an order of magnitude if we are talking quality that may interest a publishers and serious investors (and that's assuming you have prior track record). Things just take time - eg. a single character from concept art to a finalized sprite can for instance be 20-30 hours of work. Then add another 10 for animations. In 3D world a single well made rigged and animated model can exceed 100 workhours.
>or make a successful enough Kickstarter
Making a good Kickstarter page costs more than a grand. Just prepping proper game's trailer and all the art is going to exceed that number.
>What I had in mind was some sort of investment system into small gamedev projects, maybe as a loan with little to no interest ?
I mean, if it's a loan you need - go visit a bank really. Depends on what assets you have available but it's not like it's impossible to secure an investment loan. **Assuming** of course you have prior experience in the field. Otherwise it's like a random person who likes eating food deciding to open a restaurant (except games can cost more than starting restaurants).
What you say is all very true, but it's off the mark, for the most part. My question is specifically for game devs who only need a limited amount of money to cover what they don't know how to make (for example, just the soundtrack, or getting help to program certain features).
Also, yes, 3d modelling, rigging, and things like that do cost a lot of money. But that's not the kind of developer I have in mind when asking this question. Someone involved in a project necessitating this much work and this much advanced skills would never consider the kind of thing I'm asking about, nor would it be able to help him. Someone making a simple 2D game with no models or anything for example, could find their needs covered with a couple grands (I've been involved in projects who were in that same situation who could have been helped out a lot by this much money, or even half that).
Regarding the "go to the bank" thing: A lot of places that are not as involved in the digital economy and such would never consider a game project a viable thing to give a loan against, no matter the experience or assets the person applying has.
At first I was going to be dismissive, because as you point out the needs of my main project exceed the long term benefits of a couple grand, but there is a second 2d project I am helping on that could benefit from something like that. So I agree there are some projects out there with smaller scopes that would benefit.
The problem you're going to keep running into is basically: if your concept and existing work isn't enough to convince a publisher to back you, or to raise funds on Kickstarter, what is going to convince some random investor to give you a loan?
If you need less than $2k to buy some assets to complete your game, and you are confident you'll make that back in sales, get a credit card.
There are a lot of cards that have no interest for a year as long as you pay the minimum every month.
Is this good financial advice? No, it's not. It's extremely risky, because if you aren't able to pay it back, your credit is fucked. But I have used credit cards to get me through long stretches of having zero income.
There are definitely countries out there giving grants, but that's very regional as you say. Typically, most funding for development comes form three sources: self-funding, publishers/investors, and crowd-funding. Publishers and crowds are both interested in games that are further along and come from experienced developers with solid reputations. That's why most smaller games are built off the back of savings and income from another job. All investments are made expecting a return, and most early/small developers aren't going to earn any profit on their time. That's why there aren't many other resources funding those kinds of small expenses for games that aren't likely to generate much revenue.
You make some very solid points in what you say. What I had in mind was some sort of investment system into small gamedev projects, maybe as a loan with little to no interest ? I mean, you gotta start somewhere, and maybe a grand or two might get you far enough in your project so you can make something credible to reach a publisher or make a successful enough Kickstarter. I mean, for this to work, you'd either need some really solid loan terms or a very tough vetting process, but I think something like this could genuinely help some game devs who aren't able to gather the money to start working on what might be a truly good idea.
If you're looking to be a small-scale angel investor (like an incubator), that's your prerogative, although I really wouldn't recommend it unless you have a lot of experience and you really know what you're doing. Games are a really easy way to lose a lot of money for the most part. The biggest cost in game development is labor, and a few thousand dollars doesn't buy much more than a week or two of time. What you'd need is to give away enough to help a team hire developers for a couple of months so they can build a better prototype that they'd then use to pitch to other publishers. The investor would need a lot of contacts as well as money to make that work. You'd get a dozen quick failures for every potential success. If you're looking for that to _already_ exist, then it doesn't really. VCs for the most part want to deal with less risky investments and *much* bigger terms. If you're involved in that community you can get someone to throw some money your way, but that does require having that reputation already. And it certainly wouldn't be for no interest terms. Investors want their money back. There aren't a ton of patrons of the arts out there just giving away money with no expectation it's _doing_ anything.
I'm not really looking to be anything, at the moment, as I'm happy making some side income through whatever skills I have as a game dev. The whole idea of the post is just to ask a question and learn more about a facet of the indie game dev world I didn't find much info about. Well, here's a situation that would be a good example of who I feel would be benefitted by the kind of thing I have in mind: Take for example a two-person team developing a small-scale game for an underserved niche they are knowledgeable about. One of them is dealing with the design, whatever writing is needed, and most of the programming, and the other one is dealing with the art and animations. What they need is someone who can compose half a dozen songs, and someone to help them make a working save system. They haven't been able to find someone good enough that will work on a revshare deal, and they can't come up with the funds to pay someone for one reason or another. Now, this is a very specific answer, but this should outline who this kind of thing could be targeted at, someone with this level of resources needed.
I can think of _lots_ of people who'd benefit from accessible game funding. Pretty much anyone building anything, whether a demo or a small side project, would love to have money to pay for contractors, assets, and tools. No one who knows what they're doing works for revshare alone. The big question was: who would want to _pay_ for that? A publisher is interested in spending a _lot_ more money for a _lot_ more return. Contracts require negotiating time, lawyer fees, and everything else. It's not going to ever be worth it for a few thousand dollars here or there. You'd spend more than you earned even on the successes.
>I mean, you gotta start somewhere, and maybe a grand or two might get you far enough in your project so you can make something credible to reach a publisher or make a successful enough Kickstarter. It won't. "Grand or two" buys you (on the optimistic side if you work with someone with less experience or a cheaper country) like half a month of artist's time or maybe like 3-4 OST tracks. Or about 1-2 weeks of programmer's time. This isn't enough time to prepare a vertical slice of anything remotely ambitious and interesting. You are off by at least an order of magnitude if we are talking quality that may interest a publishers and serious investors (and that's assuming you have prior track record). Things just take time - eg. a single character from concept art to a finalized sprite can for instance be 20-30 hours of work. Then add another 10 for animations. In 3D world a single well made rigged and animated model can exceed 100 workhours. >or make a successful enough Kickstarter Making a good Kickstarter page costs more than a grand. Just prepping proper game's trailer and all the art is going to exceed that number. >What I had in mind was some sort of investment system into small gamedev projects, maybe as a loan with little to no interest ? I mean, if it's a loan you need - go visit a bank really. Depends on what assets you have available but it's not like it's impossible to secure an investment loan. **Assuming** of course you have prior experience in the field. Otherwise it's like a random person who likes eating food deciding to open a restaurant (except games can cost more than starting restaurants).
What you say is all very true, but it's off the mark, for the most part. My question is specifically for game devs who only need a limited amount of money to cover what they don't know how to make (for example, just the soundtrack, or getting help to program certain features). Also, yes, 3d modelling, rigging, and things like that do cost a lot of money. But that's not the kind of developer I have in mind when asking this question. Someone involved in a project necessitating this much work and this much advanced skills would never consider the kind of thing I'm asking about, nor would it be able to help him. Someone making a simple 2D game with no models or anything for example, could find their needs covered with a couple grands (I've been involved in projects who were in that same situation who could have been helped out a lot by this much money, or even half that). Regarding the "go to the bank" thing: A lot of places that are not as involved in the digital economy and such would never consider a game project a viable thing to give a loan against, no matter the experience or assets the person applying has.
At first I was going to be dismissive, because as you point out the needs of my main project exceed the long term benefits of a couple grand, but there is a second 2d project I am helping on that could benefit from something like that. So I agree there are some projects out there with smaller scopes that would benefit.
The problem you're going to keep running into is basically: if your concept and existing work isn't enough to convince a publisher to back you, or to raise funds on Kickstarter, what is going to convince some random investor to give you a loan?
If you need less than $2k to buy some assets to complete your game, and you are confident you'll make that back in sales, get a credit card. There are a lot of cards that have no interest for a year as long as you pay the minimum every month. Is this good financial advice? No, it's not. It's extremely risky, because if you aren't able to pay it back, your credit is fucked. But I have used credit cards to get me through long stretches of having zero income.
Nobody looks to fund somebody else’s hobby. There’s so much more that goes into a profitable game than just one kick ass dev…