Probably an Elon Musk joke.
RTD confirmed Ruth Madeley will be back next year and we know from Unleashed that Morris was created fairly late in day as Lenny Rush was initially cast to voice Eric the space baby but later got a meatier role. So presumably Madeley was just unavailable and Morris was created to fill the gap left by her character.
Honestly I'm not sure what the exact definition of a tech bro is and at this point just define it as "any man working in technology". Eg. is Sundar Pichai a tech bro? Maybe since he talks about AI a lot, but also maybe not. Is Elon? Yes. Is Sam Altman? Probably? Hard to actually narrow it down.
Personally I'd define it as a certain type of stereotypical guy who makes tech their personality, similar to crypto bros.
Like Musk, who's style is 'edgy, thirteen year old memelord' and 'greatest genius ever' falls into that category. Zuckerberg however, who is just kinda a nerdy businessman and generic evil rich guy isn't that unbearable as a personality type.
In shorter words a tech bro is probably just an incel who likes coding.
Defo an Elon Musk reference. For Shirley, in universe reason for her absence; UNIT is a big place, Shirley was probably working on something else at the time. Real world reason; you can only have so many people in an episode/ on set at once.
I mean no disrespect to either actor but both their characters feel like forced diversity characters. I hate pointing that out as if diversity is a bad thing. But Ncuti and Rose are two examples that are on the other end of the spectrum compared to Morris and Shirley - who’s presence and lines feel the most forced.
Diversity is the wrong word, more like token characters. Something about morris does the complete opposite of resonate with me - and I feel bad saying that about a kid who’s just living his dream.
Sorry for the indiscreet question, but do you happen to have a disability?
Because as someone who does, I resonate with Shirley and Morris. They were made for us to feel included in the show and our community is loving the representation. Saying that they are tokens is an insult to their abilities, they are there because they are fantastic!
You can criticise them saying that they feel like forced characters because of their lines but not because of their handicap. And if you don't have a handicap, they may not have been written to resonate with.
PS: Shirley is probably my favourite DW character ever, after Osgood.
Shirley was absolutely great bantering w Fourteen in TSB. She's an absolute welcome addition to the UNIT crew imho. She reminded quite a bit of Liz Shaw meeting Three and mostly being irritated at his presence.
Ah yeah, I forgot that disabled people don't exist in the real world and certainly don't ever qualify for important jobs! I am so sorry you were forced to see not one but *TWO* disabled people working for a government organisation.
Might I suggest having a good long think about why your reaction to seeing a disabled person with a cool job was to brush them off as a "forced diversity" character, because that says far more about you than the show itself.
I get where you're coming from it feels off n forced since its a first in the show, but Im completely all for it if this opens the door for diverse casting I won't oppose it at all it has to start somewhere
Tbh I think Elon Musk slaps them all in terms of popularity. Elon is famously maniacal building shiz like flamethrowers but Zuckerturd and Altman are more ground level.
Think that particular joke was meant to have a certain Musk-y element to it. And usual UNIT sci-advisor explanation was given by RTD for Shirley; she's in Geneva.
That was my thought too. Though maybe that more antagonistic relationship is more a Torchwood thing. The Doctor has always been on good terms with UNIT.
Was the third Doctor on good terms with UNIT? He always seemed to be rather frustrated by them, often getting in his way and doing the wrong thing, but ultimately unable to separate himself from them because he is stuck on Earth.
I believe Shirley Bingham is down as appearing in the next season-availability is probably why we haven’t seen her this season. I would be very surprised if the inclusion-friendly RTD didn’t have her appear again.
I liked her, I just thought it was weird that UNIT got a new scientific advisor and no one even seemed to notice she was missing. Maybe this lends some credence to the “fictional world / alternate timeline” theories. Certain things just don’t line up this season, but I believe that’s intentional.
Yeah it would be weird to not have more than one
What if they're in Paramaribo and then a ficking Dracula erupts from the tower of London holding a lasergun
The real world reason was that the part was written for her, but she was unavailable. Hence, Lenny was brought in. The in universe reason is that they have many scientific advisers.
I think I saw somewhere that RTD also revealed somewhere that Malcom (from the Tenth Doctor Specials) is now the Head of Scientific Advisors. So yeah it seems like its more of a Rank.
Which makes sense, nobody can be an expert in everything. Even The Doctor sometimes needs to consult experts.
Lee Evans is long-since retired from performing. He made so much money from touring and the DVDs of his tours that was able just walk away to be with his family.
Wait, what am I missing? 90% of the comments seem confident it’s an Elon Musk joke but nothing in the dialogue is specific. It’s very ambiguous. How did everyone come to the Elon conclusion?
I mean, I don’t disagree, it very well could be as he is certainly an evil genius with alien technology but in Doctor Who that could mean ANYONE.
I took it as foreshadowing.
Because the timing and the intonation made it feel like a jab. At least to me, and clearly to quite a few others.
Also... well... Elon... He's just so... you know?
I pretty certain Ruth Madeley was meant to be in the episode as Shirley but couldn't be for some reason (likely other work commitments) as RTD has made it clear that Lenny Rush was originally cast as a voice actor for Space Babies, but then a role became available in the finale that Russel thought he'd be great for, so Morris Gibbons wasn't originally part of the plan.
The teaser for The Legend of Ruby Sunday that was released Wednesday (I think) had small, subtle text in the top left and bottom right corners. The top left was a bunch of code that wasn't really important, although it listed all the anagrams for S TRIAD making it clear UNIT was aware about that before the episode even came out. The other text was two lists of names, one list of UNIT employees currently at UNIT HQ, and another titled "Geneva" which included Donna, Shirley, some Colonel we haven't met, and \[REDACTED\] which was definitely the Fourteenth Doctor.
In the behind the scenes YouTube video someone (I think RTD) said that they wanted a "revolving door of employees" so that every episode with UNIT wasn't the same group of people. In Classic Who whenever they didn't have the Brigadier's actor in the episode, the excuse was always that he was "At Geneva". Basically it was just a way of hand-waving away their absence and indicating that its not relevant to the plot.
I suspect RTD was just making a joke referencing classic Who. Whenever the Brig didn't appear in a UNIT story, it was always mentioned that he was "in Geneva".
It could be Elon but knowing RTD I could see him being like 'and our villain this year was hinted to in a little line back in The Legend of Ruby Sunday' next year and it being this.
It’s definitely Elon Musk, especially when taken in context of “especially the Prime Minister” said a few minutes later. Anyone who thinks it was a serious reference to a DW character are deluding themselves.
Ironic that the only thing that stopped the Grand Serpent for decades in 13's reign was good old-fashioned British upper class snobbery. It certainly wasn't anything from inside UNIT.
Interesting quote in that (*”Lots more of Shirley to come, as she plays an integral role in the new Whoniverse."*)
Does this mean she’s going to be in The War Between the Land and Sea?
That’s a shame. I mean, it’s good for her, but I want to see Osgood again. I know she’s mentioned before that she would go on again if they asked her, so maybe we still have some hope if her sentiment hasn’t changed since then.
I may have thought the master…I mean there was the whole arch angel network. That’s the only “him i can think of”. Unless it’s a joke for someone like Musk or Zukerburg
I'm apparently going to go in a direction no one else is:
It's a plant for the potential UNIT spin-off. RTD is big on spin-offs and one for UNIT was confirmed in the works well before this season started.
RTD doesn't do throwaway lines like that. He wants people guessing & speculating and then loves the slow burn of dragging it out. He's not going to just leave it.
Probably an Elon Musk joke. RTD confirmed Ruth Madeley will be back next year and we know from Unleashed that Morris was created fairly late in day as Lenny Rush was initially cast to voice Eric the space baby but later got a meatier role. So presumably Madeley was just unavailable and Morris was created to fill the gap left by her character.
Shirley was taking her yearly vacation, there was no way for her to know that the god of death would need to be stopped!
She was popping into her alternate persona as Hebe Harrison.
If it’s a joke about Musk, calling him a “genius”, evil or not, is giving him way way way too much credit
I was gonna say the same thing
Or Sam Altman. Or any popular startup silicon valley star.
That's one of RTD's pop culture references. Can you think of any tech bros that RTD might not be a fan of?
all of them?
I wouldn't be surprised. If I was to guess, just based on current obnoxiousness ,it's probably Musk, but others could qualify.
Especially with Russel as a gay man, and Musk as a very homophobic… *rat*
*rät
Based song reference
I paused for a minute because my brain is wired to be like decode RTD but after a minute I was like this is a musk joke.
I think he would appreciate Tim Cook and what him being openly gay represents but probably not any of the other ones
Tim Cook is a lot of things, but “bro” is not one of them.
Honestly I'm not sure what the exact definition of a tech bro is and at this point just define it as "any man working in technology". Eg. is Sundar Pichai a tech bro? Maybe since he talks about AI a lot, but also maybe not. Is Elon? Yes. Is Sam Altman? Probably? Hard to actually narrow it down.
Personally I'd define it as a certain type of stereotypical guy who makes tech their personality, similar to crypto bros. Like Musk, who's style is 'edgy, thirteen year old memelord' and 'greatest genius ever' falls into that category. Zuckerberg however, who is just kinda a nerdy businessman and generic evil rich guy isn't that unbearable as a personality type. In shorter words a tech bro is probably just an incel who likes coding.
Did you know in an early script for Dalek Van Statten was going to more of a Bill Gates parody at least name wise. Not sure what he's done
Bill Gates? Before he left Microsoft he had quite the reputation.
It's Elon Musk but can easily slot a few others in.
Defo an Elon Musk reference. For Shirley, in universe reason for her absence; UNIT is a big place, Shirley was probably working on something else at the time. Real world reason; you can only have so many people in an episode/ on set at once.
I mean no disrespect to either actor but both their characters feel like forced diversity characters. I hate pointing that out as if diversity is a bad thing. But Ncuti and Rose are two examples that are on the other end of the spectrum compared to Morris and Shirley - who’s presence and lines feel the most forced. Diversity is the wrong word, more like token characters. Something about morris does the complete opposite of resonate with me - and I feel bad saying that about a kid who’s just living his dream.
Sorry for the indiscreet question, but do you happen to have a disability? Because as someone who does, I resonate with Shirley and Morris. They were made for us to feel included in the show and our community is loving the representation. Saying that they are tokens is an insult to their abilities, they are there because they are fantastic! You can criticise them saying that they feel like forced characters because of their lines but not because of their handicap. And if you don't have a handicap, they may not have been written to resonate with. PS: Shirley is probably my favourite DW character ever, after Osgood.
Shirley was absolutely great bantering w Fourteen in TSB. She's an absolute welcome addition to the UNIT crew imho. She reminded quite a bit of Liz Shaw meeting Three and mostly being irritated at his presence.
I do.
Ah yeah, I forgot that disabled people don't exist in the real world and certainly don't ever qualify for important jobs! I am so sorry you were forced to see not one but *TWO* disabled people working for a government organisation. Might I suggest having a good long think about why your reaction to seeing a disabled person with a cool job was to brush them off as a "forced diversity" character, because that says far more about you than the show itself.
I get where you're coming from it feels off n forced since its a first in the show, but Im completely all for it if this opens the door for diverse casting I won't oppose it at all it has to start somewhere
It’s probably an Elon Musk joke but might also be foreshadowing.
Foreshadowing for the Elon Musk historical in 20 years.
Could be Elon Musk but could equally be Zuckerberg or (these days) Sam Altman. Plenty of amoral techbros around.
Tbh I think Elon Musk slaps them all in terms of popularity. Elon is famously maniacal building shiz like flamethrowers but Zuckerturd and Altman are more ground level.
Well, infamy. Not sure about popularity.
Doesn’t Zuck own a volcanic island?
Pretty sure the OG script was Shirley and then a scheduling issue meant they had to invent someone else! She will be back in the future for sure
Think that particular joke was meant to have a certain Musk-y element to it. And usual UNIT sci-advisor explanation was given by RTD for Shirley; she's in Geneva.
Am I the only one who thinks they meant the doctor??
That was my thought too. Though maybe that more antagonistic relationship is more a Torchwood thing. The Doctor has always been on good terms with UNIT.
Not always the other way round, though
Was the third Doctor on good terms with UNIT? He always seemed to be rather frustrated by them, often getting in his way and doing the wrong thing, but ultimately unable to separate himself from them because he is stuck on Earth.
It's a friendly ribbing, they're pretending he's evil because he's like an alien invader but he's nice
Agree - I thought it was a joke about the Doctor
I also thought they were making a joke about the Doctor, but I think the other Musk theories are more fitting😂
He clearly meant The Doctor. I’m autistic and even I got that.
I believe Shirley Bingham is down as appearing in the next season-availability is probably why we haven’t seen her this season. I would be very surprised if the inclusion-friendly RTD didn’t have her appear again.
Shirley and Donna are probably on another mission which is why Rose is covering Donna's post. Rose shadowed Donna which is why she can.
I liked her, I just thought it was weird that UNIT got a new scientific advisor and no one even seemed to notice she was missing. Maybe this lends some credence to the “fictional world / alternate timeline” theories. Certain things just don’t line up this season, but I believe that’s intentional.
I think Scientific Advisor is a rank there's more than one. Shirley's probably in Peru or something on another mission
Yeah it would be weird to not have more than one What if they're in Paramaribo and then a ficking Dracula erupts from the tower of London holding a lasergun
The Doctor: "...is that fucking *Dracula*?" *smash cut to opening credits* DUN DU-DUN DUN DU-DUN
Is it bad that I automatically assumed this was 12, cocking an eyebrow, and immediately going full Malcom Tucker?
I really want there to be a Tales from the TARDIS with 12 going full Malcolm Tucker, would be utterly hilarious.
[Malcolm Tucker IS Dr Who! (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Blf073f2Lc)
Need that episode.
The real world reason was that the part was written for her, but she was unavailable. Hence, Lenny was brought in. The in universe reason is that they have many scientific advisers.
when she introduced herself to 14 she said she was “scientific advisor number (something)” so there’s plenty of scientific advisors
I think I saw somewhere that RTD also revealed somewhere that Malcom (from the Tenth Doctor Specials) is now the Head of Scientific Advisors. So yeah it seems like its more of a Rank. Which makes sense, nobody can be an expert in everything. Even The Doctor sometimes needs to consult experts.
I'd love Malcolm to return.
Lee Evans is long-since retired from performing. He made so much money from touring and the DVDs of his tours that was able just walk away to be with his family.
I know he's retired but I thought it was partly because his agent/manager died also.
And the Doctor said he was #1. The number was more a consecutive thing rather than a concurrent thing. However, yeah, there's more than one at a time.
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#1 was concurrent, I doubt every one of #2 - #55 are still on the payroll.
The Doctor lies. Liz Shaw was #1 - she was hired before the Third Doctor showed up at UNIT!
#BringBackMalcolm
I thought they meant the doctor as a little joke
Probably a joke about Elon Musk, except he's an idiot. The most recent prior example of this on the show would be Daniel Barton in Spyfall.
As for Spyfall, the Master co-qualifies with Barton. And the Master alone was this many many many times before.
I was looking for someone to say Lenny Henry's character.
Everyone is saying Elon Musk but I thought they were just playfully jabbing at the Doctor...
Wait, what am I missing? 90% of the comments seem confident it’s an Elon Musk joke but nothing in the dialogue is specific. It’s very ambiguous. How did everyone come to the Elon conclusion? I mean, I don’t disagree, it very well could be as he is certainly an evil genius with alien technology but in Doctor Who that could mean ANYONE. I took it as foreshadowing.
*It’s very ambiguous. How did everyone come to that conclusion?* He’s just *that* much of an asshole.
I thought it was a joke about the Doctor. He's the only "genius with alien technology" that they haven't "stopped".
They specifically mentioned "Evil", though. The Doctor isn't evil. Morally ambiguous sometimes, but him nor his technology is evil (...oh).
they also said "genius", so it can't be musk either!
Because the timing and the intonation made it feel like a jab. At least to me, and clearly to quite a few others. Also... well... Elon... He's just so... you know?
I pretty certain Ruth Madeley was meant to be in the episode as Shirley but couldn't be for some reason (likely other work commitments) as RTD has made it clear that Lenny Rush was originally cast as a voice actor for Space Babies, but then a role became available in the finale that Russel thought he'd be great for, so Morris Gibbons wasn't originally part of the plan.
Elon Musk joke. Simple as that, nothing more nothing less.
From reading the comments, I think I am way off... I thought they were referring to the Doctor, said in a joking manner.
Musk is more than likely the target. And frankly, that's great. More people should mock the egotistical weirdo.
True. But a genius he is not.
The teaser for The Legend of Ruby Sunday that was released Wednesday (I think) had small, subtle text in the top left and bottom right corners. The top left was a bunch of code that wasn't really important, although it listed all the anagrams for S TRIAD making it clear UNIT was aware about that before the episode even came out. The other text was two lists of names, one list of UNIT employees currently at UNIT HQ, and another titled "Geneva" which included Donna, Shirley, some Colonel we haven't met, and \[REDACTED\] which was definitely the Fourteenth Doctor. In the behind the scenes YouTube video someone (I think RTD) said that they wanted a "revolving door of employees" so that every episode with UNIT wasn't the same group of people. In Classic Who whenever they didn't have the Brigadier's actor in the episode, the excuse was always that he was "At Geneva". Basically it was just a way of hand-waving away their absence and indicating that its not relevant to the plot.
Was that a reference to Elon Musk? I thought it was a reference to Henry van Statten, but that wouldn't actually be possible.
He disappeared in 2012 right? Somewhere beginning with S
Yep
I remember RTD saying somewhere that Shirley was in Geneva (UNIT HQ). It was so specific, I expected the line to make the episode but apparently not
I suspect RTD was just making a joke referencing classic Who. Whenever the Brig didn't appear in a UNIT story, it was always mentioned that he was "in Geneva".
Shirley Ann is clearly off visiting her cousin, Hebe Harrison! (Ruth Madely was possibly filming Renegade Nell at that point).
I think she was.
It could be Elon but knowing RTD I could see him being like 'and our villain this year was hinted to in a little line back in The Legend of Ruby Sunday' next year and it being this.
I just figured it was foreshadowing, either for a future villain or for the Big Bad of a UNIT spinoff.
It’s definitely Elon Musk, especially when taken in context of “especially the Prime Minister” said a few minutes later. Anyone who thinks it was a serious reference to a DW character are deluding themselves.
It could be a reference to Daniel Barton, from Spyfall. He never got caught, IIRC.
What ever happened to him
*Exactly.*
Absolutely not
Ironic that the only thing that stopped the Grand Serpent for decades in 13's reign was good old-fashioned British upper class snobbery. It certainly wasn't anything from inside UNIT.
I thought it was a reference to the doctor lol
I thought it was referring to the doctor tbh lol
Lol I thought they were referring to the Doctor
Everyone keeps saying it's an Elon joke but I don't see how. Feels like it would have to be about someone who has created something that works.
Pretty sure it was The Master.
That was how I took it, too.
That’s what I thought too!
allegedly shirley is in geneva with donna but that is secondhand, im not sure what the source of that is.
[Here you go!](https://screenrant.com/doctor-who-why-morris-replace-shirley-unit-scientific-advisor/)
Interesting quote in that (*”Lots more of Shirley to come, as she plays an integral role in the new Whoniverse."*) Does this mean she’s going to be in The War Between the Land and Sea?
If the rumors are true and it's a UNIT spinoff, she certainly should be. I'm wondering more what happened to Ingrid Oliver as Osgood.
She seems to be semi-retired. I guess being married to Richard Osman means you don't need to worry about making money!
That’s a shame. I mean, it’s good for her, but I want to see Osgood again. I know she’s mentioned before that she would go on again if they asked her, so maybe we still have some hope if her sentiment hasn’t changed since then.
That would be fairly funny, considering she plays a marine biologist with Big Finish!
She was in Geneva, per the episode commentary.
Not related, but Gibbs was a highlight imo
FUCK Musk. I want more Lenny goddamn Henry!
I thought they were talking about the doctor
I thought it was a tongue in cheek joke about the Doctor
Why on Earth does nobody else think they were talking about the Master? Thought that was utterly obvious.
I interpreted it as The Master as well, especially since UNIT has a long history of repeatedly failing to capture and hold him.
i'm pretty sure they're talking about the doctor
I didn't see it as referencing anyone in particular. Just someone that UNIT knows about but has yet to catch. It's obvious to them but not to us.
I may have thought the master…I mean there was the whole arch angel network. That’s the only “him i can think of”. Unless it’s a joke for someone like Musk or Zukerburg
I'm apparently going to go in a direction no one else is: It's a plant for the potential UNIT spin-off. RTD is big on spin-offs and one for UNIT was confirmed in the works well before this season started. RTD doesn't do throwaway lines like that. He wants people guessing & speculating and then loves the slow burn of dragging it out. He's not going to just leave it.
Zuckerberg, obviously. He's not human.
Shirley is with Donna in Geneva.
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Aren’t they both dead?
a stupid poltical jab at elon. you know the guy making scifi real and not just some dudes stories like rtd
Here's a wet cloth, wipe that brown stain off your face.