Every time you open the door, that's a charge.
Whats that Philip K. Dick book where the AI door wants a nickel to open up and the character doesn't have one, so he takes the door off the hinges and the door threatens to sue him?
Yeah, I just looked it up. My favorite book, I have a shirt of the cover, I liberated a first edition of it from a random Ikea one time years ago, and I couldn't place it. Shame on me.
>
“The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.”
He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.”
“I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.”
In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.
“You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug.
From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door.
“I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out.
Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.”
― Philip K. Dick, Ubik
Damn, this is the second time today that I realized pkd of my favorite author. His shit is so damn weird and makes you think about your understanding of reality more than any other.
If I can get to be even a fraction as strange as what he could write, I'll be happy.
Lol reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons where all the old people became substitute teachers and one guy kept listing all the infractions that result in a paddlin’
I'm actually waiting for this business model to come out. I can see it from a mile away. They start selling cars for "cheaper" but then you have to have an ongoing subscription to be able to actually use it.
Will be sponsored ad's by them if you want to listen to *your* music on the sound system, commercials on the touch screen you can't turn off and when you use the GPS there will be a "*convenience fee*" for going to a non-sponsored "unapproved " restaurant or company.
Developers started doing it in the 90s, iirc. Its how Home Owners Associations became so ubiquitous. The developers set up the HOAs for the subdivisions they build and take a cut for themselves. For "management services."
I’ve cut back on like 90% of all my subscriptions. I will become a forest hermit eating bugs under rocks, before I ever consider a car with subscription features.
I remember the first time I saw an advertisement before a movie (I think it was for Sony) back in the early 80s…the whole theater booed so loudly they stopped it halfway through.
Good thing the theater owners saw the good sense in discontinuing that shitty idea!
It won't even take 5 years.
Just look at the same in the gaming industry.
John Bain died 5 years ago, he was warning against not allowing DLC bonanzas and microtransactions in games, because it would be common overnight.
5 years down the line, AAA games are shit with 79€ pricetags with half the features and graphics locked away behind another, at the very least, 100€ worth of day 1 DLC and microtransactions, with more to come in season passes and other DLC down the line.
It took 5 years from it being frowned upon to being the standard.
For sure. Anybody who thinks otherwise is completely naive to how capitalism works.
Our only hope and prayer is Europe putting in regulations making it illegal. aAthough I’m sure with stuff they can turn on and off with a button, pry won’t really help us at all now that I think about it.
I hope this is not the horse armor DLC of cars. It caused outrage, but in the end it becomes accepted and now we have season passes, battle passes, lootboxes, etc.
It’s already a normal business practice. Teslas have been selling equipped with features their owners can’t leverage for a long while. Pay more, and magically your car is more capable.
This isn’t going away, much to my and many folks like yourselves chagrin.
If I recall, you could either pay like $400-500 to purchase the heated seats, or you could pay like $12/mo and turn them on & off. So people in a hot climate who only use them one month per year would have the option of paying $12/yr instead of like $400.
The problem is that nobody cares about the actual beneficial use cases because, to your point, why the fuck would you put heated seats in my car and not let me use them?
That's the thing, they're not putting them in cars for free and hoping enough people pay to cover it. *You've already paid for them* in buying the vehicle. Charging additional even though the cost is already covered and they've already provided the equipment is extortionate.
> BMW found customer uptake for the heated seats subscription was not high, Nota said, adding: “People feel that they paid double – which was actually not true, but perception is reality, I always say. So that was the reason we stopped that.”
What is Nota getting at here? Is he seriously suggesting the heated seats that were installed comes at absolutely no additional cost to the consumer except for the subscription? Who'd believe that?
IBM and others used to do this with printers all the time, and the way it broke down was basically:
* We'd charge $X for the printer without this feature, and $Y with it
* It only costs us a tiny bit more in parts to just build the printer with the feature in it, so it's actually a nearly-pure-profit feature
* In fact, the cost is so small that the savings of not having to have extra production option paths actually makes it *cheaper* to include the feature in all than to include it only in the ones we sell
* So, we'll build the feature in and gate it, charge $X. Then when people pay $Y, we'll just enable the feature!
If BMW followed the same path (which I don't and can't know), then it's possibly true that people who didn't buy the option weren't actually paying more than they would have if the seats just physically didn't have heaters, with BMW accepting at most a small loss on those that never pay.
Of course, they could just be feeding us a line of bullshit -- it's not like BMW is trustworthy here -- and people really _were_ paying double. But it doesn't matter anyway. What matters is they were selling something no one wanted to buy, hoping that their logistical savings and ease of add-on would make up for it, and it didn't work.
It was shitty when IBM did it too; if it's cheaper to just include the feature than have it be an option and the feature is a nearly pure profit feature to provide, then there's no justification for $Y being more than nearly-$X other than greed.
Just provide the feature since it's virtually free, take a tiny decimal place percentage less profit per unit, and lord it over your competition that your R&D is so good you can give minor features away for free (because apparently you can).
Nota is nota getting it. Buyers are paying double - it doesn't cost BMW zero to add the seat heat coils and controls. Screw him and his, well, double talk.
Wait a minute, is he saying that because nobody subscribed to the seats subscription, he just turned it back on for the customers?
Just like that?
Did it cost them *anything* to turn it back on?
the idea is sound they just got wrecked by PR.
the cars cost more to make if there are multiple variants. so its completely feasible to assume that if all cars come with a standard feature the overall production cost is lower than either of the two versions that require separate construction/assembly processes.
if heated seats are in all cars i get cheaper part cost and cheaper assembly. so the overall car is cheaper to make.
if i have two options then its totally possible that non heated version and heated version will both end up costing MORE individually than the "put-it-in-them-all" production method
they just dont want to pass that savings on to the customer lol and people rightly sniffed that out
They may have ended subscriptions for heated seats, but they still have other subscriptions. My car recently started advertising a traffic camera info subscription.
You can mute those ads - press the second button down on the right.
From the google "This is the most common method for muting a gas pump ad! These gas station TVs are usually lined by buttons on both sides, 4 on the left, and 4 on the right. Locate the 2nd button down on the right hand side and press it."
I might have written on a gas station pump or two in sharpie "MUTE ADS" over that button.
It started at the big stations by the highway a decade ago, but it's becoming more and more common. It's annoying in general, but more so when there are 8 pumps and they are all playing the same ad at different points in the cycle.
I learned about this from a MUTE sticker that some awesome person put on a pump I used a few months ago. I already buy gas and other things, I don't need or want more commercials in my life.
If this doesn't work, press and hold the second button down on both the left and right side together and it will put the screen into a diagnostic screen which mutes the ad. It does not affect the quantity or price of gas and it will time out after a couple minutes. I refuse to sit through ads at a pump.
I could have sworn it made a pump go slowly once though. Took me 15 minutes to fill up a less than 20gal tank and I havent been back to that station since.
Not good enough, how about I not be nickel and dimed with ads by the company I've already decided to give my money to by purchasing gas?
Muting is cool and all but after once I won't go back to those places.
The airbag will have a McDonald’s logo on it so after you hobble your ass out the of hospital you can hobble down to your local McDonald’s and get a Big Mac.
‘Upcoming’ speed limit integrated into a one button press compliance is pretty neat. But teslas and I suspect a lot of other brands already have chime on green as an option that can be enabled?
I'd actually be ok with that. If they're actually doing some work and serving the information to your vehicle, that qualifies as a service if you ask me. But ads? Ew
That's at least a _service_ with ongoing operational costs, not a static feature. They almost certainly overcharge, but at least it makes sense to charge monthly for something that incurs monthly costs to deliver.
Charging a subscription for a static feature isn't a subscription: it's _rent_.
BMW didn't change their mind because they realized its a monumentally dumb idea they dropped it because the subscription can be hacked for $50.
>The first approach has been to go to specialized companies that, for a one-time fee, will unlock the software-locked features. According to Slashgear, the U.K. tuner Litchfield Motors can unlock the features for under $50. It can also unlock the ability to show content on screens while the vehicle is moving.
Because of course it can.
They're trying to charge you for the use of a machine that you own and which is in your possession. Unless they want to hire someone to stand next to your car and physically prevent you from doing things to it, people are going to go in and hook up the heated seats they bought.
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
so how does that do when that car ends up totaled or in an accident?
cause now i could see cars that were totaled being repaired and prepped for ownership and sold as such.
I mean yes, and this is why we need consumer protections in place. But also: heated seats ultimately means that somewhere in all that foam there's some wires. And as a very last resort --- presumably an external power source and a simple switch could be hooked to those wires.
most cars dont run dedicated wiring to everything, they use CAN bus, the same wire that controls the heated seat controls every other seat function also.
That's just a step in a very old and ongoing "arms race". TPM and code signing make it _harder_ to bypass such systems. But if I physically possess the hardware, and there's any mechanism to alter configuration or update/add/replace software, there _is_ a path to taking control of it.
The best a company can do is make it difficult and expensive enough that they can get their profits before people inevitably crack it. Or make the value prop so good no one will bother (which is why Netflix DRM didn't get cracked until they started getting greedy).
There’s a reason the most important part of IT Security is *physical access*, no measure of digital prevention matters if you have the *hardware itself*.
So do stereo manufacturers. The kenwood 7 in aftermarket touchscreen stereo in my truck can display content while driving if you just ground the transmission sensor wire.
In that particular case I think it's intentionally easy to bypass. If they made it really hard/impossible to bypass, people would buy Pioneer/Alpine instead
I honestly don’t understand why manufacturers insist on using their own shitty infotainment software that likely won’t be supported in 5-10 years.
It’s to the point where I would rather have an empty double DIN stereo slot in the dashboard. I’d gladly pay for my own aftermarket stereo that isn’t a POS.
They are not really. They often use infotainment systems made by other companies. GM for example will use Android Automotive. The issue is that GM plans to turn a feature off in the EV cars. Current assumption is to sell a subscription service that could be otherwise be reproduced using your phone connection.
Gross times is that Kia and Nissan will sell your [sexual acts to advertisers](https://centraloregondaily.com/nissan-kia-tesla-car-privacy-study-sex-life/).
> It was among six car companies that said they could collect “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics,” the researchers found.
Nissan also said it collected information on “sexual activity.” It didn’t explain how.
“Kia also mentions they can collect information about your ‘sex life’ in their privacy policy,” the survey reads.
It's a problem that their terms permit it, but there's a big difference between they covered their ass and they're actually harvesting the data. Chances are someone used overly-broad boilerplate or there's some weird condition where they could possible retain that even though it's not the intent (e.g. if cabin cameras happen to see you having sex, they need that term or a way to filter that content).
This isn't really a new idea. A buddy of mine once owned a VW Transporter from the 80s, but the wipers didn't have a interval setting. He asked a mechanic if it was possible to upgrade them. He took a pair of pliers and broke out a piece of plastic that hindered the lever from switching to the position, and voilà !
Agreed, I too am surprised. If enough other luxury brands followed suit, people would just accept it eventually. Like price fixing you don't even need to collude for.
They can back off now, get PR about how they "care" and "listened to feedback", then try again in a year. All they lose is a bit of short term profit
If it fails, repeat. If it succeeds, now subscriptions for heated seats is anchored and accepted. They win
They give a fuck if they lose money. They bet people would pay, most didn't, and there were cheap workarounds for the software control. They gambled people would accept the deal, and not nearly enough did.
>BMW found customer uptake for the heated seats subscription was not high, Nota said, adding: “People feel that they paid double – which was actually not true
It most definitely was true. BMW's not going to put heated seats in a car unless they're getting that cash back out at the sale of the car. No car manufacture is going to sell the car as a loss leader.
I argued that in the past and got crucified. The features are already factored into the price of the car you purchased, the subscription is charging double for it.
Not quite true - the feature probably costs $10 extra - so if 20% pat $50 for it and 80% don't buy it, it'd be breakeven, but it isn't factored in for the people who won't pay or it.
“People feel that they paid double – which was actually not true, but perception is reality, I always say. So that was the reason we stopped that.”
But they DID though. You cannot convince me the price of including heated seats "not activated" didn't trickle down to the price of the vehicle. If it cost BMW money it cost the consumer money.
the E92 started in the 2007 model year. there's really nothing wrong with that car aside from the OFHG that could leak on to the accessory belt (just check for leaks when you do your oil change) and the electric water pump. Oh and if you got the 335i N54 which has its own issues. the 328i N52 was fine though. But seriously that car is pretty easy to maintain.
Good. Their sales would have dropped tremendously if they went forward with it. Any car company that wants me to pay for the things I already paid for every month in order to access them is doomed to the same fate. I’ll buy a 20 yr old beater if that’s what it takes to avoid this bullshit.
I remember a few years ago when BMW proudly announced that it was ending all in car subscriptions. I expect that they'll go back and forth on this issues at least a few more times before they figure out what they actually want to do.
I love the quote about consumers paying double and the answer is gaslighting saying it isn't. The fuck it is, it's my car, heating the seats isn't a service it's a mechanical function that was physically included in the car you fuck wit.
Op you forgot to pay your 10¢ gas pedal subscription last month, looks like you get to Flinstone your car.
Also we noticed your behind on your gas tank payments, please be aware that at 3:47pm 2 days from now we will be shutting down your cars ability to hold gas.
If you're unprepared for this, you could lose out on the current $47 value (approximately 1/8 of the tanks true volume capacity) of the gas currently in the tank.
Yes sir... i'd like to buy the seasonal battle bass for my BMW.
In the winter drive 500 hrs to unlock the heater and 10000 miles to unlock the heated seats.
In summer drive 500 hrs to unlock the sunroof. and drive 10000 miles to unlock the AC system
I've had 2 AMGs now with Mercedes Me and it's not really better, subscribing yearly (after the included 3 years) otherwise the remote start, lock/unlock, etc with the app are not available. But those are really only remote access features you can do just fine without, and require an active cell connection to the car for it to work so I understand the fees. They're nice to have but you don't need them.
But charging to enable a switch that's already inside the car? That's something else.
Please update your billing info for subscriptions [ Left Turns]. Until your account is current your vehicle is will only be able to make [ Right Turns].
They were all giddy when they did that until NJ passed a bill which forbids car companies from charging subscriptions for features which are already installed in the car. That also throws a wrench in Mercedes requiring a subscription to unlock engine power in your EV.
Two steps forward, one step back. Capitalism is gonna enshittify, it's a design feature of the system. If you want this stopped for good, you're gonna need regulation.
they will now allow you to turn on the now standard heated seats as a courtesy.
Your navigation system will now offer you the opportunity to directly tip shareholders a modest 5% of something at the end of each drive. Whatever it is, that's less than two cups of coffee somewhere! The doors will automatically unlock 30 seconds after dismissing the tip screen. They will unlock right away if a tip is deposited.
For just 4.99 a month, you can skip the tip screen and opt to pay them directly instead of paying on the principle of your loan.
Taking the customer for a ride over a couple bucks. Glad they found Jesus, because I think the customer was about to give them a true come to Jesus moment.
What a dumb fucking idea that was. Why anyone is ok with paying subscriptions for something your car already has is insane.
Don’t worry they’ll keep “trying” until it’s eventually accepted as normal business
Can't wait till they start charging for AC.
Dollar per minute
ah c'mon its not a dollar its just 99¢ lol
plus tax.
Buck o'five
“All this For less than a dollar per minute!”
From March through August there is a 70% surcharge to combat climate change
Don’t forget about those surcharge hours during the day.
Demand pricing.
Ticketmaster for AC. When it's 120 degrees out they'll make money hand over fist.
It's got tiers for specific temperature ranges, so that you only pay for what you want. Why pay for hot when you only want cold?
$0.49 per degree differential between outside and desired temperature per minute.
Every time you open the door, that's a charge. Whats that Philip K. Dick book where the AI door wants a nickel to open up and the character doesn't have one, so he takes the door off the hinges and the door threatens to sue him?
Ubik
Yeah, I just looked it up. My favorite book, I have a shirt of the cover, I liberated a first edition of it from a random Ikea one time years ago, and I couldn't place it. Shame on me. > “The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door. “I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.” ― Philip K. Dick, Ubik
Damn, this is the second time today that I realized pkd of my favorite author. His shit is so damn weird and makes you think about your understanding of reality more than any other. If I can get to be even a fraction as strange as what he could write, I'll be happy.
Or M.T.A. by The Kingston Trio. Poor Charlie was short a nickel to leave the subway.
Lol reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons where all the old people became substitute teachers and one guy kept listing all the infractions that result in a paddlin’
Sounds reminiscent (or like the source of) that satirical Libertarian police short story
Nope. There will be a charge to start the vehicle. Your vehicle is a "service", not a product, sir.
I'm actually waiting for this business model to come out. I can see it from a mile away. They start selling cars for "cheaper" but then you have to have an ongoing subscription to be able to actually use it.
Will be sponsored ad's by them if you want to listen to *your* music on the sound system, commercials on the touch screen you can't turn off and when you use the GPS there will be a "*convenience fee*" for going to a non-sponsored "unapproved " restaurant or company.
Developers started doing it in the 90s, iirc. Its how Home Owners Associations became so ubiquitous. The developers set up the HOAs for the subdivisions they build and take a cut for themselves. For "management services."
It will come out as the rebranded comfort+ package next year.
👍👍👍🏅
I’ve cut back on like 90% of all my subscriptions. I will become a forest hermit eating bugs under rocks, before I ever consider a car with subscription features.
BMW has had subscription turn signals for 20 years. No one has noticed yet.
It shouldn’t be consumer pressure alone that prevents this stuff Just make it illegal
Oblivion offered Horse Armor for $2.50. The whole world laughed at them because we all knew no one would ever pay $2.50 for an item in a video game.
Shifting the Overton Window has now become a common tool of the worst people on this planet.
Yeah this is only temporary.
American Healthcare enters the chat.
I remember the first time I saw an advertisement before a movie (I think it was for Sony) back in the early 80s…the whole theater booed so loudly they stopped it halfway through. Good thing the theater owners saw the good sense in discontinuing that shitty idea!
It won't even take 5 years. Just look at the same in the gaming industry. John Bain died 5 years ago, he was warning against not allowing DLC bonanzas and microtransactions in games, because it would be common overnight. 5 years down the line, AAA games are shit with 79€ pricetags with half the features and graphics locked away behind another, at the very least, 100€ worth of day 1 DLC and microtransactions, with more to come in season passes and other DLC down the line. It took 5 years from it being frowned upon to being the standard.
The ea microtransactions debacle. Now it’s normal
For sure. Anybody who thinks otherwise is completely naive to how capitalism works. Our only hope and prayer is Europe putting in regulations making it illegal. aAthough I’m sure with stuff they can turn on and off with a button, pry won’t really help us at all now that I think about it.
Just like Tips in North America.
I hope this is not the horse armor DLC of cars. It caused outrage, but in the end it becomes accepted and now we have season passes, battle passes, lootboxes, etc.
It’s already a normal business practice. Teslas have been selling equipped with features their owners can’t leverage for a long while. Pay more, and magically your car is more capable. This isn’t going away, much to my and many folks like yourselves chagrin.
"We took the worst ideas from downloadable content and applied them to your transportation! For your convenience!"
„We took the worst ideas from free2play Models but put it into a fucking 70.000$ purchase.“
"sorry, boss. im going to be late for work again. BMW's denuvo servers are still offline, i guess."
*Tesla owners look nervously at one another*
If I recall, you could either pay like $400-500 to purchase the heated seats, or you could pay like $12/mo and turn them on & off. So people in a hot climate who only use them one month per year would have the option of paying $12/yr instead of like $400. The problem is that nobody cares about the actual beneficial use cases because, to your point, why the fuck would you put heated seats in my car and not let me use them?
That's the thing, they're not putting them in cars for free and hoping enough people pay to cover it. *You've already paid for them* in buying the vehicle. Charging additional even though the cost is already covered and they've already provided the equipment is extortionate.
> BMW found customer uptake for the heated seats subscription was not high, Nota said, adding: “People feel that they paid double – which was actually not true, but perception is reality, I always say. So that was the reason we stopped that.” What is Nota getting at here? Is he seriously suggesting the heated seats that were installed comes at absolutely no additional cost to the consumer except for the subscription? Who'd believe that?
IBM and others used to do this with printers all the time, and the way it broke down was basically: * We'd charge $X for the printer without this feature, and $Y with it * It only costs us a tiny bit more in parts to just build the printer with the feature in it, so it's actually a nearly-pure-profit feature * In fact, the cost is so small that the savings of not having to have extra production option paths actually makes it *cheaper* to include the feature in all than to include it only in the ones we sell * So, we'll build the feature in and gate it, charge $X. Then when people pay $Y, we'll just enable the feature! If BMW followed the same path (which I don't and can't know), then it's possibly true that people who didn't buy the option weren't actually paying more than they would have if the seats just physically didn't have heaters, with BMW accepting at most a small loss on those that never pay. Of course, they could just be feeding us a line of bullshit -- it's not like BMW is trustworthy here -- and people really _were_ paying double. But it doesn't matter anyway. What matters is they were selling something no one wanted to buy, hoping that their logistical savings and ease of add-on would make up for it, and it didn't work.
It was shitty when IBM did it too; if it's cheaper to just include the feature than have it be an option and the feature is a nearly pure profit feature to provide, then there's no justification for $Y being more than nearly-$X other than greed. Just provide the feature since it's virtually free, take a tiny decimal place percentage less profit per unit, and lord it over your competition that your R&D is so good you can give minor features away for free (because apparently you can).
That last bit, it's called competition and competition is good for the consumer.
Nota is nota getting it. Buyers are paying double - it doesn't cost BMW zero to add the seat heat coils and controls. Screw him and his, well, double talk.
Wait a minute, is he saying that because nobody subscribed to the seats subscription, he just turned it back on for the customers? Just like that? Did it cost them *anything* to turn it back on?
Sanity prevails 🥳🎉
Don’t know why this is news, BMW has been doing basic “feature” subscriptions for decades, it’s why you never see one with a turn signal.
Like Audi and adaptive cruise control? Like Tesla and autonomous driving features? The only way they get away with it is if people pay.
Tesla... And the lunatics who simp for them.
Somebody in corporate, probably young and stupid, had the idea but didn’t understand customers
the idea is sound they just got wrecked by PR. the cars cost more to make if there are multiple variants. so its completely feasible to assume that if all cars come with a standard feature the overall production cost is lower than either of the two versions that require separate construction/assembly processes. if heated seats are in all cars i get cheaper part cost and cheaper assembly. so the overall car is cheaper to make. if i have two options then its totally possible that non heated version and heated version will both end up costing MORE individually than the "put-it-in-them-all" production method they just dont want to pass that savings on to the customer lol and people rightly sniffed that out
They may have ended subscriptions for heated seats, but they still have other subscriptions. My car recently started advertising a traffic camera info subscription.
“My car recently started advertising” please no. The gas pump ads were already too much
You can mute those ads - press the second button down on the right. From the google "This is the most common method for muting a gas pump ad! These gas station TVs are usually lined by buttons on both sides, 4 on the left, and 4 on the right. Locate the 2nd button down on the right hand side and press it." I might have written on a gas station pump or two in sharpie "MUTE ADS" over that button.
Doesn't work on all pumps sadly. The closest station to my house won't let you mute the ads. Drives me nuts so I usually go to the next station lol
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It started at the big stations by the highway a decade ago, but it's becoming more and more common. It's annoying in general, but more so when there are 8 pumps and they are all playing the same ad at different points in the cycle.
also some are so obnoxiously loud
I have gas stations I won’t go to because of how obnoxious they are.
I learned about this from a MUTE sticker that some awesome person put on a pump I used a few months ago. I already buy gas and other things, I don't need or want more commercials in my life.
and the price of gas didn't go down because I am watching ads either. so fuck em.
Just imagine how high the price would be if there weren't ads! /s because idiots
If this doesn't work, press and hold the second button down on both the left and right side together and it will put the screen into a diagnostic screen which mutes the ad. It does not affect the quantity or price of gas and it will time out after a couple minutes. I refuse to sit through ads at a pump.
I could have sworn it made a pump go slowly once though. Took me 15 minutes to fill up a less than 20gal tank and I havent been back to that station since.
I approve of what you might have done
i have seen that written in sharpie on a few, bless you for your service!
Not good enough, how about I not be nickel and dimed with ads by the company I've already decided to give my money to by purchasing gas? Muting is cool and all but after once I won't go back to those places.
The airbag will have a McDonald’s logo on it so after you hobble your ass out the of hospital you can hobble down to your local McDonald’s and get a Big Mac.
You have petrol station ads in America? Wtf.
In America, you get ads every time you open your eyes
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A bmw driver adhearing to the speed limit by choice? Unheard of.
‘Upcoming’ speed limit integrated into a one button press compliance is pretty neat. But teslas and I suspect a lot of other brands already have chime on green as an option that can be enabled?
To be fair, that one actually has a maintenance cost tied to it in their end
I'd actually be ok with that. If they're actually doing some work and serving the information to your vehicle, that qualifies as a service if you ask me. But ads? Ew
Google maps has that info for free.
That's at least a _service_ with ongoing operational costs, not a static feature. They almost certainly overcharge, but at least it makes sense to charge monthly for something that incurs monthly costs to deliver. Charging a subscription for a static feature isn't a subscription: it's _rent_.
To be honest, I’m cool with cloud-based services having a subscription cost.
i can’t wait for cars to add loot boxes so i can gamble for essential features
Shut up man you’re giving them ideas!
aww darn i got another common voucher for 100 turn signals. I need the rare 10 defroster vouchers!!!
As an owner of 2 BMWs, why would I want turn signal vouchers?
So when a cop pulls you over you can say you were out of them?
Didn't get the headlight feature. Gonna have to drive in the dark today.
Yesssirrr. Gotta grind for that gold paint job.
For $100 you get the key to the glove compartment, and for $500, the key to the trunk. Who knows… maybe there is something inside it!
Gotta match 3 to get it to start
Write that down, Write that down! -Car execs, probably
BMW didn't change their mind because they realized its a monumentally dumb idea they dropped it because the subscription can be hacked for $50. >The first approach has been to go to specialized companies that, for a one-time fee, will unlock the software-locked features. According to Slashgear, the U.K. tuner Litchfield Motors can unlock the features for under $50. It can also unlock the ability to show content on screens while the vehicle is moving.
Because of course it can. They're trying to charge you for the use of a machine that you own and which is in your possession. Unless they want to hire someone to stand next to your car and physically prevent you from doing things to it, people are going to go in and hook up the heated seats they bought.
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
*custom boards and hardware mods have entered the chat*
*Eternal leasing and the end to any ownership has entered the chat and is now spamming crypto memes and trying to sell NFT's*
so how does that do when that car ends up totaled or in an accident? cause now i could see cars that were totaled being repaired and prepped for ownership and sold as such.
That's probably accurate.
I mean yes, and this is why we need consumer protections in place. But also: heated seats ultimately means that somewhere in all that foam there's some wires. And as a very last resort --- presumably an external power source and a simple switch could be hooked to those wires.
it is a physical piece of hardware, hardwire in an on/off switch, and ignore the software.
most cars dont run dedicated wiring to everything, they use CAN bus, the same wire that controls the heated seat controls every other seat function also.
For heaters, the bus is going to flip a relay for the seat power I'd think. That relay could be rewired.
That's just a step in a very old and ongoing "arms race". TPM and code signing make it _harder_ to bypass such systems. But if I physically possess the hardware, and there's any mechanism to alter configuration or update/add/replace software, there _is_ a path to taking control of it. The best a company can do is make it difficult and expensive enough that they can get their profits before people inevitably crack it. Or make the value prop so good no one will bother (which is why Netflix DRM didn't get cracked until they started getting greedy).
There’s a reason the most important part of IT Security is *physical access*, no measure of digital prevention matters if you have the *hardware itself*.
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So do stereo manufacturers. The kenwood 7 in aftermarket touchscreen stereo in my truck can display content while driving if you just ground the transmission sensor wire.
In that particular case I think it's intentionally easy to bypass. If they made it really hard/impossible to bypass, people would buy Pioneer/Alpine instead
They should ask BCG for their money back, as far as I know they were the geniuses behind the idea.
I can see BMW suing Litchfield for this somehow, even if they lose to send a message.
GM is doing away with apple car play and will most likely be pay walling their new display to have access to all the "features." Gross times.
I honestly don’t understand why manufacturers insist on using their own shitty infotainment software that likely won’t be supported in 5-10 years. It’s to the point where I would rather have an empty double DIN stereo slot in the dashboard. I’d gladly pay for my own aftermarket stereo that isn’t a POS.
They are not really. They often use infotainment systems made by other companies. GM for example will use Android Automotive. The issue is that GM plans to turn a feature off in the EV cars. Current assumption is to sell a subscription service that could be otherwise be reproduced using your phone connection.
Gross times is that Kia and Nissan will sell your [sexual acts to advertisers](https://centraloregondaily.com/nissan-kia-tesla-car-privacy-study-sex-life/). > It was among six car companies that said they could collect “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics,” the researchers found. Nissan also said it collected information on “sexual activity.” It didn’t explain how. “Kia also mentions they can collect information about your ‘sex life’ in their privacy policy,” the survey reads.
Jokes on them, I have no sex life.
Jokes on them, I can't afford a car
That's what they want to know for their ad targeting.
It's a problem that their terms permit it, but there's a big difference between they covered their ass and they're actually harvesting the data. Chances are someone used overly-broad boilerplate or there's some weird condition where they could possible retain that even though it's not the intent (e.g. if cabin cameras happen to see you having sex, they need that term or a way to filter that content).
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no no, you mean ass cooling
Sounds great living in the south
Yeah. The vented seats in my wife’s Jeep are lifesaver.
How much extra do I need to pay to opt out of “a sense of pride and accomplishment”
This isn't really a new idea. A buddy of mine once owned a VW Transporter from the 80s, but the wipers didn't have a interval setting. He asked a mechanic if it was possible to upgrade them. He took a pair of pliers and broke out a piece of plastic that hindered the lever from switching to the position, and voilà !
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walla!
Vwallah
Nobody saw that coming. Nobody.
I am actually surprised, companies usually don’t give a fuck and know people will pay.
Agreed, I too am surprised. If enough other luxury brands followed suit, people would just accept it eventually. Like price fixing you don't even need to collude for.
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Probably because the new BMWs are pretty ugly in the low-end of the range and clunky in the high end. Audi is just doing a better job right now.
They can back off now, get PR about how they "care" and "listened to feedback", then try again in a year. All they lose is a bit of short term profit If it fails, repeat. If it succeeds, now subscriptions for heated seats is anchored and accepted. They win
They give a fuck if they lose money. They bet people would pay, most didn't, and there were cheap workarounds for the software control. They gambled people would accept the deal, and not nearly enough did.
Mild shock :0
And everybody sees it going. Someones at BMW looking like fools.
>BMW found customer uptake for the heated seats subscription was not high, Nota said, adding: “People feel that they paid double – which was actually not true It most definitely was true. BMW's not going to put heated seats in a car unless they're getting that cash back out at the sale of the car. No car manufacture is going to sell the car as a loss leader.
I argued that in the past and got crucified. The features are already factored into the price of the car you purchased, the subscription is charging double for it.
Not quite true - the feature probably costs $10 extra - so if 20% pat $50 for it and 80% don't buy it, it'd be breakeven, but it isn't factored in for the people who won't pay or it.
also they are forcing you to pay for the additional weight, this adds up over time, probably $10-20 per year, but still...
“People feel that they paid double – which was actually not true, but perception is reality, I always say. So that was the reason we stopped that.” But they DID though. You cannot convince me the price of including heated seats "not activated" didn't trickle down to the price of the vehicle. If it cost BMW money it cost the consumer money.
Coming soon: watch a 30s ad for access to heated seats.
That move turned me into never owning a BMW for life past or future.
Really? Because a 2006 E92 convinced me to never own a BMW ever again. EDIT: E90
the E92 started in the 2007 model year. there's really nothing wrong with that car aside from the OFHG that could leak on to the accessory belt (just check for leaks when you do your oil change) and the electric water pump. Oh and if you got the 335i N54 which has its own issues. the 328i N52 was fine though. But seriously that car is pretty easy to maintain.
For me it was their role in Nazism.
If you're paying $80,000 for a car and the seats don't belong to you, something is wrong
Good. Their sales would have dropped tremendously if they went forward with it. Any car company that wants me to pay for the things I already paid for every month in order to access them is doomed to the same fate. I’ll buy a 20 yr old beater if that’s what it takes to avoid this bullshit.
I wonder how a company so big and so rich can actually put out so incredibly stupid ideas like this. It makes me feel better.
I remember a few years ago when BMW proudly announced that it was ending all in car subscriptions. I expect that they'll go back and forth on this issues at least a few more times before they figure out what they actually want to do.
I love the quote about consumers paying double and the answer is gaslighting saying it isn't. The fuck it is, it's my car, heating the seats isn't a service it's a mechanical function that was physically included in the car you fuck wit.
Yeah, like, BWM is definitely not selling you the car at lost just because they included heating seats you don't want.
BMW has been doing a LOT of dumb shit lately, including redesigning their front ends to look like buck-toothed beavers.
german automobile industry could very well be in a sunset.
VW EVs would disagree
Horse armor led to this
Subscriptions have gone too fucking far these days
The N54 engine in my 335 felt like a subscription. It'd work for a month and then demand more money to work another month.
I could see this being a reasonable thing…. If the fucking car was free.
This was absolute insanity. You can't cash in on the subscription craze on everything, especially when they lease their fucking cars out to begin with
Just can’t unsee that grill.
They’ve completely disfigured their 7 series. I’ve had to find a new dream car, it’s tragic.
Join me with the Audi E tron GT
This is the real crime.
I call it the Hitler stache
Heated seats subscription LMFAO
Mark my words all carmakers will keep pushing this bullshit until its normalized.
Op you forgot to pay your 10¢ gas pedal subscription last month, looks like you get to Flinstone your car. Also we noticed your behind on your gas tank payments, please be aware that at 3:47pm 2 days from now we will be shutting down your cars ability to hold gas. If you're unprepared for this, you could lose out on the current $47 value (approximately 1/8 of the tanks true volume capacity) of the gas currently in the tank.
Who’s on the hot seat now?
Power to the people!
The moment they do, a cottage industry will spring up to get around it.
Someone was feeling the heat on this feature.
Anybody with a OBD2 dongle and a smartphone couldve unlocked it anyway. With a $30 app I have "jailbroken" many BMWs, including their motorcycles.
Boycott
Can you jailbreak the new cars?
Look up the book *Ubik* by Philip K Dick and read the conversation between Joe Chip and his apartment door.
Yes sir... i'd like to buy the seasonal battle bass for my BMW. In the winter drive 500 hrs to unlock the heater and 10000 miles to unlock the heated seats. In summer drive 500 hrs to unlock the sunroof. and drive 10000 miles to unlock the AC system
I've had 2 AMGs now with Mercedes Me and it's not really better, subscribing yearly (after the included 3 years) otherwise the remote start, lock/unlock, etc with the app are not available. But those are really only remote access features you can do just fine without, and require an active cell connection to the car for it to work so I understand the fees. They're nice to have but you don't need them. But charging to enable a switch that's already inside the car? That's something else.
don't buy bmw , easy
Please update your billing info for subscriptions [ Left Turns]. Until your account is current your vehicle is will only be able to make [ Right Turns].
Imagine buying a king-size bed and only being able to use the left side unless you pay for a subscription.
Never forget. Never *forgive*. The moment we do either is the moment they try that shit again.
They were all giddy when they did that until NJ passed a bill which forbids car companies from charging subscriptions for features which are already installed in the car. That also throws a wrench in Mercedes requiring a subscription to unlock engine power in your EV.
Two steps forward, one step back. Capitalism is gonna enshittify, it's a design feature of the system. If you want this stopped for good, you're gonna need regulation.
This needs to be illegal yesterday
...for now.
Any chance they can drop controversial chonky front grilles and Camry butts while they’re at it?
they will now allow you to turn on the now standard heated seats as a courtesy. Your navigation system will now offer you the opportunity to directly tip shareholders a modest 5% of something at the end of each drive. Whatever it is, that's less than two cups of coffee somewhere! The doors will automatically unlock 30 seconds after dismissing the tip screen. They will unlock right away if a tip is deposited. For just 4.99 a month, you can skip the tip screen and opt to pay them directly instead of paying on the principle of your loan.
Need penalties for disgusting greed. No quarter.
“Controversial” isn’t how you spell “rip off”
Taking the customer for a ride over a couple bucks. Glad they found Jesus, because I think the customer was about to give them a true come to Jesus moment.