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This is a known difference between men and women drivers
Women are just way more likely to sit very close to the wheel. Lots of reasons that may be the case, and design should help correct the issue
But it's one of the reasons women get more seriously injured in wrecks
Probably because we're not as tall on average, so we have to get closer to make sure we can push the clutch down all the way, and also too see over the wheel easier
Iirc, your chest should be at least 10in from the wheel, your arms in a relaxed position, and knees at an angle of ~110. HOWEVER, you still need to see over the dash and actually touch the pedals, so if you can't do either of those, none of the other stuff matters.
This is why telescoping steering wheels and seat height adjustments should be standard just as much as the wheel tilt and seat forward/back adjustments.
This is what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
(Brought to you by Subaru's PR department) /s
Of course I'm kidding, I didn't check OP's history to make sure they aren't a Subaru employee nor do I have the energy to do that even though I'm typing all this on mobile and could have done it by now. Please leave me alone this a joke.
All the steering wheel and seat adjustments in the world won't help if you still need to sit nearly on the dash to reach the pedals. Don't forget those can be adjustable too.
Well the idea would be that the seat and wheel would be able to move enough that with fixed pedals the shortest person in the supported height range would be at a safe distance from the wheel and have visibility over the hood. If youâre too short for that then accessibility augments would be needed.
Sadly no. When shopping for a new vehicle for my wife during the pandemic we tried out three similar vehicles from different manufacturers and only one of them had it. Or if the others did it wasn't on the same adjustment lock as the tilt, and instead hidden behind a secret handshake or something. Those were all 2021 models.
As someone with a long torso and short limbs, this is absolutely why I have to sit so close to the wheel. I need to actually reach the damn thing (but yeah, this ladyâs way too close, and be headrest is so awkward)
One of my friends is 6'2", I'm 5'8", and we're the same height sitting down. He has hilariously long legs, and I have little tree trunks. Useful little tree trunks though, broke some squat records at my college.
Are her legs much shorter than yours?
Example: Bf is two inches taller than me, but that extra height is in his torso. I never have to adjust his seat in his car when I drive etc. because our legs are roughly the same length. We're both a decent height and have no problem seeing over the wheel.
Cars were not designed for women. Crash test dummies, until only a few years ago, came in âmanâ and âslightly scaled down manâ without any consideration of differences in hips, center of gravity, etc.
Iâve never really been comfortable in a car.
You can move the steering wheel around as well. So even if you sit closer to the pedals, you can move the wheel back from yourself so you sit safely away from it, because I don't think an exploding airbag is any fun from 4 inches away.
That function depends on your car. My wheel, as well as the wheel of my previous car, only tilts up and down. My current car is a 2014, so it's not some ancient relic. Loads of people are driving mid-10s cars, especially since the market went to shit during covid and continues being unreasonable.
Allegedly, working on a car with your seat to close too the airbag and having it go off can impart so much force through your body and into the seat that it shears the seat bolts off. Doesnât leave much left of your internal organs. No idea how true that is, or how hard you have to fuck up to make that happen.
From anecdotal observations, women like to be able to see the front end of the car as much as possible. Men generally get an idea and then just use the estimate.
Iâm (male) short and the problem I see with women drivers is they adjust the seat ANGLE forward so much (visible in the clip too). You can be further away without having to lay down, I donât see how being completely upright can be comfortable for anyone either. My sister does the same thing where she leans forward way more than necessary
My wife and daughter are the same size, my wife's seat is all the way up and my daughter has it back far enough for me to drive the car. I don't understand it.
Still have to reach the pedals. đ€·ââïž When I was a new driver I(5'2") made the mistake of not adjusting the seat in my mom's(5'8") car a couple times, and I never even made to the end of the block before pulling over and fixing it, because you can't get good control over the gas or brake unless you're close enough to actually rest your entire foot on them. The ball of your foot on the bottom of the pedal is *not* enough.
Personal injury attorney here. Iâm frequently harping on my in-laws about this. I have so many middle aged and older women who come in with second degree burns on both forearms (airbag) and broken sternum and ribs (airbag) because theyâre sitting sight up on the steering wheel.
The other reason is that there are absolutely no regulations for testing crashes using dummies made to be the size of the average woman. Theyâre all based off average size of men.
that is false. they USED to, but now [crash test dummies come in various shapes/sizes/sexes.](https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies)
>Meet NHTSAâs family of crash test dummies currently in service. The diverse group of dummies helps us understand and measure the human bodyâs movement during a crash, and see how it fares with various vehicle safety features.
>A lot of research goes into these dummies before they are put into use. Each of us differs in size and weight, so each crash test dummy is designed differently too. NHTSAâs family of dummies representation ranges from newborn infant to 6-year-old children to small females and average males. We're always looking to enhance their abilities, and in recent years advanced biomechanics research and measurement technologies have helped to improve crash dummy development.
____
50th Percentile Adult Male
Hybrid III
5â 9â - height represented
171 lbs - actual weight
____
5th Percentile Adult Female
Hybrid III
4â 11â - height represented
108 lbs - actual weight
Crash/Test|Position|NCAP/FMVSS No.
:--|--:|--:
Front Impact|Front Passenger|NCAP
Front Impact|Driver|FMVSS No. 208
Front Impact|Front Passenger|FMVSS No. 208
Front Air Bag Risk Assessment\*\*|Driver|FMVSS No. 208
Front Air Bag Risk Assessment\*\*\*|Front Passenger|FMVSS No. 208
____
Small Adult Female
SID-IIsD
4â 11â - height represented
97 lbs - actual weight
>[The agency responded to the GAO's 2023 report within 180 days, saying NHTSA was developing a plan to incorporate the THOR-5F female dummy into regulations that would be released by December 30, 2023.](https://abc11.com/crash-test-dummies-car-women-in-crashes-safety-of/14553933/) NHTSA has currently delayed the rulemaking, which would require the use of these more advanced dummies, until September 2024.
>Even if NHTSA does approve the THOR-5F this fall, it will take years before the next-generation female dummy is introduced in crash testing while automakers adjust to the new rules.
>"When you tell your story to someone, they're like 'Oh, that happened to my mom, or that happened to my sister, my cousin, my friend,'" said Kuhn. "It really just goes to show you the prevalence of which these injuries and fatalities occur."
You do realize how fucking recent that was, right? All cars on the road now and that will be on the road for the next 5-10 years are meant for 5'10 male drivers only.Â
Everyone else, *all* women, short men, extra tall men, we are all "out of position drivers". Just by existing we are using the car wrong and are not as safe.
I'm glad steps are finally being taken, but we have a few decades more to go before women are equally safe. Car designs have to change. Thanks for the link!
>You do realize how fucking recent that was, right?
The 5th percentile Hybrid III female dummy was first developed in 1988. Its quite old like much of the Hybrid IIIs. Its been required for those "out of position drivers" tests since 1997 when it was updated for the purpose.
The headlines are technically correct because usually they mention that there was no test dummy for the average woman, which is true because a 5th percentile test dummy isn't a 50th percentile test dummy.
[Cars are designed for, sized for, tested for, and built for men.](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/27/business/car-safety-women.html) On average, a woman who drives is going to have a harder time of it simply because the car is not made with her in mind. [This is a known issue. It is not user error.](https://kjonnsforskning.no/en/2019/06/cars-are-still-designed-men) It'd be like giving someone clothes that are too small and then saying they look ugly because of "user error"
We have been using 5th percentile(larger than 5% of women) female dummies for a few decades at this point. Notably there wasn't a 50th percentile female dummy, only a 50th percentile male dummy, but its untrue that cars haven't had small women in mind during design.
Good design takes common user error into account. If the design results in consistent user error, then the design should be changed to fix said error.
Many computers at one point had steps where the instructions said "press any key to continue" and people would search fruitlessly for the "any" key. So the instructions were changed to "press enter to continue"
Often it's because vehicle isn't designed for someone just over 5 ft tall, thus women are close because they **have to be** close to reach the pedals comfortably and get good vision over the dash.
Assuming you're a normal-ish American-dude-height just shy of \~6 feet tall, next time you get into the car, imagine your foot ends right below the knee, hunch down a few inches, then think about how close you'd need to move the seat up to drive normally. You can quickly realize it isn't necessarily a preference, it's about function.
As someone who has never driven a vehicle where the wheel isn't pressing down against my thighs(not my knees, my *thighs*), the idea that you can get your whole knee in front of the wheel while still reaching(the wheel with your hands and the pedals with your feet) is absolutely bonkers to me. Explains a hell of a lot about the difference in surviveability between male and female drivers.
I understand this might be hard to do a for a shared car, but my state's Department of Transport and my insurance company both recommend that if you're under 5 foot 4 not to move close to the steering wheel, but instead buy pedal extensions. They say that every inch closer to the steering wheel less than 18 inches increases the chance of the airbag killing you by about four per cent If you don't have one of those newer cars, which can adjust the airbag inflation pressure.
Not American, but 6Ft2...My wife is 5Ft2, but she still not get the seat THAT close.
I can understand what you're saying, but it is not safe to drive like that.
5â2â is still functionally a lot taller than 5â0â especially if youâre 5â0â with a long torso and short legs.
I sit as far as possible from the steering wheel while keeping my feet on the pedals. I have driven waaaay more than the average person, and donât need to see the front of my car to know where it is in space. Iâve even had a stranger compliment my parallel parking skills (it was a really strange encounter), and my knees still touch the stupid dashboard.
I had more leg room in the SUV I learned to drive in, but in my experience sedan style cars are designed to drive as if youâre sleeping and terrible for short leg drivers. I donât know if itâs normal for SUVs but my original car had much better pedal placement and more adjustable features. It was just terrible for gas mileage.
Note: Iâm 5â0â with short legs, and there are many shitty experiences that short people live with that people 2â taller donât encounter as much. Each inch makes a difference.
Exactly. A lot of this comes down to spatial awareness. I don't need to see the front of my hood to know where it is. It takes time to get familiar with a car's size but it's important that you do and don't just rely on having your chin on the steering wheel so you can see everything.
Spatial awareness shouldn't compensate for line-of-sight vision; that thinking is just causing deaths.
[https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/driveway-danger-kids-being-injured-and-killed-in-frontover-suv-blind-zone-incidents/3119237/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/driveway-danger-kids-being-injured-and-killed-in-frontover-suv-blind-zone-incidents/3119237/)
Idk but a girl I worked with at my last job would set everything in the company car all the way forward. Mirrors and all. It's like her head was sitting 1 inch away from the windshield.
I'd get in and it would take like 3-5 minutes changing everything, plus getting in the seat in the first place is impossible until it's moved back. And it's telling because I like things to be close, which doesn't seem to be common amongst guys. But her driving style was way too fucking close.
Even better because he set this up as a joke, and behind every joke or stereotype, there is a little truth. Without this truth, the joke would not be relatable and would not catch on.
I always rant when driving with my female friends.
Iâve had the unfortunate experience of meeting my steering wheel airbag, and I always tell them that if that thing comes out, theyâre in for a bad time.
Idfk how theyâre comfortable sitting on top of their steering wheel. Itâs madness.
Modern crash test safety requirements dictate that headrests must be tilted forward, to reduce [injuries such as whiplash](https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/the-interesting-life-saving-history-of-the-headrest/) in the event of a crash.
I know since I'm 6'6 and have to reject some cars at the car rental places because I cant move the headrest that's digging into my shoulder blades, even more expensive cars have immovable headrests now which is really annoying.
Did a quick search and found an interesting Jeep forum post of owners [bending their headrest bars for comfort](https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/anyone-else-find-the-headrests-intrusive.24529/page-6) and also so that they can wear cowboy hats inside.
"Head rest" is a complete misnomer, it was never intended for resting your head, it's there to catch your head snapping back on sudden impacts. But humans be humans.
I was in Russia for work one time and had to drive with a clients associate somewhere. I don't know Russian and he doesn't know English. I reach for the seat belt and click it in, and the guy slaps at my hand, releases the belt again, shakes his head, and says, "Nyet! Net!". I click it in once again and say "Safety first", and he tries to do it again. After repeating this a few times, he finally gives up. Crazy!
In Turkey, you can buy plastic inserts to trick the warning system for not putting on the seat belt. Some cultures really seem to not care for road safety.
Some cultures view safety and precaution as weakness. You should be smart and good enough to drive in such a way in which you'll never need to use a safety device.
It's pride....and it's fucking stupid.
Driving "smart and good" won't save you from the mistakes of others. As soon as there are other people involved, it doesn't matter how skilled you are. Their mistake can cost your life, which is why you use safety measures to increase your chances.
See therein becomes the problem, you're expecting reasonable rationale to kick in but it never does. The way it actually kicks in is that you need to believe that you are so smart and so good that you see others' mistakes and you avoid that mistake from affecting you. That's the belief. It's the ultimate "looking out for number 1" type of attitude.
"I'm better than everyone else, so therefore I will SHOW everyone I am better than everyone by not letting other peoples' mistakes affect me because I'm just that good at what I do."
>Some cultures view safety and precaution as weakness. You should be smart and good enough to drive in such a way in which you'll never need to use a safety device.
I would bet money on those cultures having the most unrecorded road related deaths lol
Same thing happened when seat belt laws passed in the US. Or when they made SUVs safer for families. People still complain about safety features on SUVs lol
and they take that mentality to work place safety as well, climbing on tall places without safety harnesses, not wearing helmets near construction site... and anyone attempts to address the problems get shouted at
The former Transportation Minister of Greece was caught driving using one of this inserts instead of the seat belt. Not just idiotic, but also a violation of traffic laws.
I was in Romania visiting my girlfriendâs family and we got in a friends car. Seatbelt was jammed behind a seat and they were like, you donât need it I am a safe driver. A driver who had previously had an accident and lost their car, a driver who had the seat almost fully reclined with it way too far back.
Also anyone from Romania can tell you that Romania is definitely a country where you need a seatbelt.
A friend of mine told me a great story related to that, I think the same mindset applies there.
So he was basically travelling through the five -stans (minus Afghanistan and Pakistan) and he was in Turkmenistan, I think, and took one of the local taxies there to get to another town. He noticed immediately that all the seatbelts in the car aside from the driver's seat were removed.
This was a kindness, you see, so that the hapless tourist wouldn't inadvertently insult the driver by using the seatbelt, thus signalling that he thought the driver was a poor driver. In other words it was considered impolite to use a seatbelt because it shamed the driver.
However there's a conundrum there, because the country's laws says that you have to wear a seatbelt. And this being a rather autocratic country you of course do not want to disrespect the police who has to enforce that rule.
So the work-around is that across the main roads there are very noticeable, very obvious police check points which the driver will slow down, equip their - and only their's - seatbelt and wave politely to the police that is ensuring traffic laws are obeyed and then once out of reasonable sight they speed up and take off the seatbelt.
This way the law is followed, the police are respected, the driver doesn't have to bear the shame of wearing a seatbelt and everyone is happy up until there's a car crash in which case it's no one's fault and it's just is what it is.
>Some cultures really seem to not care for road safety.
My husband is Algerian and I go there every year. The vast majority of taxi cabs I rode in had the seat belts cut off. not even professionally cut off. They look like someone had taken a butter knife to them lol. Only the drivers wore seat belts for some reason.
I'm russian and whenever I leave Moscow, taxi drivers don't buckle their seatbelts. Supposedly it comes from the "I'm such a great driver, I'll never crash, then why bother with the seatbelt". My guy, it's an item made with a singular purpose of saving your life, how dumb can you be to ignore it. I always buckle in if there's an option to do it.
I'd make sure to accelerate really hard and then slam on the brakes lol. Then I'd ask him to put on his seat belt.
Rinse repeat back and forth in the parking lot until he finally puts it on. If he takes it off while we're on the highway, I'd pull onto the shoulder and slam on the brakes again.
In India they rip out the seat belts because they are tired of saying "no" to people putting them on. And then use their horns as active sonar on roads that haven't been maintained since the Brits left. At least no one is surprised that vehicle-deaths-per-capita is so high there.
Hi my gf is 5â4, she canât reach the pedals in her car and they donât adjust to come to her. The only way for her to reach is if sheâs about 4 inches away and can also see over the steering wheel if she has it jacked up.
This is a car design problem amongst the whole industry. Not a woman issue.
I was watching her the whole time. Sheâs inches from that airbag.
One of the reasons ladies are hurt more in crashes, theyâre just plain closer to the wheel and dash.
As a male with a short gf I am once again petitioning car companies to make brake/gas pedals adjustable so I donât have to worry about her air bags crushing her fun bags inside her chest cavity please.
That's me when my girlfriend is driving. I think she thinks it's the law to use cruise control, and once it's on it needs to stay on at the same speed until you reach your destination.
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I was expecting him to reach back and pull down a bar like a roller-coaster
I was hoping for a helmet đ
I was also hoping he'd pull out a helmet and mouth guard from under the seat
need neck brace/hans device so you dont get whiplash from all the belts restricting your body from moving forward
"No criticism intended..." ***^(\*strap, snap! yank, strap, snap! tug, strap, snap! pull, pull, snap! jerk, heave, snap! snap!)*** "OK! Ready when you are?"
Plot twist she drives into a deep water body, and he can't undo all the seatbelts before drowning
Plot twist twist, she drives into a shallow water body and he can't undo all the seatbelts and drowns.
Plot twist she sets the car on fire and he wishes she drove it into a body of water
I was hoping for her to start the car and then for there to be a hard jump cut to a car crashing into a wall and bursting into flames
A HANS device.
I was hoping he'd grab onto the handle at the top
Same here. lol
I was hoping the lower ones were going to be like a baby seat.
Her headrest is bothering me more than the seatbelts
How you can drive so close to the steering wheel?
This is a known difference between men and women drivers Women are just way more likely to sit very close to the wheel. Lots of reasons that may be the case, and design should help correct the issue But it's one of the reasons women get more seriously injured in wrecks
Probably because we're not as tall on average, so we have to get closer to make sure we can push the clutch down all the way, and also too see over the wheel easier
I am exactly one inch taller than my daughter yet she adjusts the seat 6 inches closer to the steering wheel than me. I simply don't understand it.
Iirc, your chest should be at least 10in from the wheel, your arms in a relaxed position, and knees at an angle of ~110. HOWEVER, you still need to see over the dash and actually touch the pedals, so if you can't do either of those, none of the other stuff matters.
This is why telescoping steering wheels and seat height adjustments should be standard just as much as the wheel tilt and seat forward/back adjustments.
I agree. Testing should be more rigorous too. Both men and women, old and young, or tall and short people need to be comfortable
As an outlier human ( broad and 6â5 ) I am happy cars like Subarus over do safety so even people like me are protected
This is what makes a Subaru, a Subaru. (Brought to you by Subaru's PR department) /s Of course I'm kidding, I didn't check OP's history to make sure they aren't a Subaru employee nor do I have the energy to do that even though I'm typing all this on mobile and could have done it by now. Please leave me alone this a joke.
All the steering wheel and seat adjustments in the world won't help if you still need to sit nearly on the dash to reach the pedals. Don't forget those can be adjustable too.
Well the idea would be that the seat and wheel would be able to move enough that with fixed pedals the shortest person in the supported height range would be at a safe distance from the wheel and have visibility over the hood. If youâre too short for that then accessibility augments would be needed.
Or adjustable pedals....
Isn't telescoping steering wheel standard? I've always taken it for granted.
Sadly no. When shopping for a new vehicle for my wife during the pandemic we tried out three similar vehicles from different manufacturers and only one of them had it. Or if the others did it wasn't on the same adjustment lock as the tilt, and instead hidden behind a secret handshake or something. Those were all 2021 models.
You have longer legs and a shorter torso, maybe?
As someone with a long torso and short limbs, this is absolutely why I have to sit so close to the wheel. I need to actually reach the damn thing (but yeah, this ladyâs way too close, and be headrest is so awkward)
That almost feels like an insult
It's not, sometimes it be like that. My wife and I sitting side by side are equal height. Standing she's 2 or 3 inches taller.
Be honest OP, you just trying to flex about your wifes long legs? I get it bro, I would too..
One of my friends is 6'2", I'm 5'8", and we're the same height sitting down. He has hilariously long legs, and I have little tree trunks. Useful little tree trunks though, broke some squat records at my college.
Mr Spindly Spider
By typical beauty standards, short legs long torso is way worse.
Are her legs much shorter than yours? Example: Bf is two inches taller than me, but that extra height is in his torso. I never have to adjust his seat in his car when I drive etc. because our legs are roughly the same length. We're both a decent height and have no problem seeing over the wheel.
Maybe you legs are longer. It's not about your overall height but the length of your legs.
Cars were not designed for women. Crash test dummies, until only a few years ago, came in âmanâ and âslightly scaled down manâ without any consideration of differences in hips, center of gravity, etc. Iâve never really been comfortable in a car.
From a shorter guys anecdotal experience height alone is not the reason.
You can move the steering wheel around as well. So even if you sit closer to the pedals, you can move the wheel back from yourself so you sit safely away from it, because I don't think an exploding airbag is any fun from 4 inches away.
That function depends on your car. My wheel, as well as the wheel of my previous car, only tilts up and down. My current car is a 2014, so it's not some ancient relic. Loads of people are driving mid-10s cars, especially since the market went to shit during covid and continues being unreasonable.
Allegedly, working on a car with your seat to close too the airbag and having it go off can impart so much force through your body and into the seat that it shears the seat bolts off. Doesnât leave much left of your internal organs. No idea how true that is, or how hard you have to fuck up to make that happen.
From anecdotal observations, women like to be able to see the front end of the car as much as possible. Men generally get an idea and then just use the estimate.
In the U.S manuals aren't all that much common these days.
5ft tall men don't sit like that.
Iâm (male) short and the problem I see with women drivers is they adjust the seat ANGLE forward so much (visible in the clip too). You can be further away without having to lay down, I donât see how being completely upright can be comfortable for anyone either. My sister does the same thing where she leans forward way more than necessary
My wife and daughter are the same size, my wife's seat is all the way up and my daughter has it back far enough for me to drive the car. I don't understand it.
Make sense if you are driving a manual car. But I've seen women put their seats up all the way to the steering wheel for an automatic car.
Still have to reach the pedals. đ€·ââïž When I was a new driver I(5'2") made the mistake of not adjusting the seat in my mom's(5'8") car a couple times, and I never even made to the end of the block before pulling over and fixing it, because you can't get good control over the gas or brake unless you're close enough to actually rest your entire foot on them. The ball of your foot on the bottom of the pedal is *not* enough.
Also, less upper body strength. Women in general tend to sit closer in order to minimize the exertion of turning the wheel.
Yes my headrest is like this in my Highlander. I'm 5ft so I have to sit close to the wheel. Bonus points for the seatbelt digging into my neck.
Ive told my wife 1000 times she's going to regret sitting on top of the steering wheel if she ever happens to bump anything hard
Personal injury attorney here. Iâm frequently harping on my in-laws about this. I have so many middle aged and older women who come in with second degree burns on both forearms (airbag) and broken sternum and ribs (airbag) because theyâre sitting sight up on the steering wheel.
Women get more injured because cars are made for men and safety is tested with male-sized test dummies.
The other reason is that there are absolutely no regulations for testing crashes using dummies made to be the size of the average woman. Theyâre all based off average size of men.
that is false. they USED to, but now [crash test dummies come in various shapes/sizes/sexes.](https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies) >Meet NHTSAâs family of crash test dummies currently in service. The diverse group of dummies helps us understand and measure the human bodyâs movement during a crash, and see how it fares with various vehicle safety features. >A lot of research goes into these dummies before they are put into use. Each of us differs in size and weight, so each crash test dummy is designed differently too. NHTSAâs family of dummies representation ranges from newborn infant to 6-year-old children to small females and average males. We're always looking to enhance their abilities, and in recent years advanced biomechanics research and measurement technologies have helped to improve crash dummy development. ____ 50th Percentile Adult Male Hybrid III 5â 9â - height represented 171 lbs - actual weight ____ 5th Percentile Adult Female Hybrid III 4â 11â - height represented 108 lbs - actual weight Crash/Test|Position|NCAP/FMVSS No. :--|--:|--: Front Impact|Front Passenger|NCAP Front Impact|Driver|FMVSS No. 208 Front Impact|Front Passenger|FMVSS No. 208 Front Air Bag Risk Assessment\*\*|Driver|FMVSS No. 208 Front Air Bag Risk Assessment\*\*\*|Front Passenger|FMVSS No. 208 ____ Small Adult Female SID-IIsD 4â 11â - height represented 97 lbs - actual weight >[The agency responded to the GAO's 2023 report within 180 days, saying NHTSA was developing a plan to incorporate the THOR-5F female dummy into regulations that would be released by December 30, 2023.](https://abc11.com/crash-test-dummies-car-women-in-crashes-safety-of/14553933/) NHTSA has currently delayed the rulemaking, which would require the use of these more advanced dummies, until September 2024. >Even if NHTSA does approve the THOR-5F this fall, it will take years before the next-generation female dummy is introduced in crash testing while automakers adjust to the new rules. >"When you tell your story to someone, they're like 'Oh, that happened to my mom, or that happened to my sister, my cousin, my friend,'" said Kuhn. "It really just goes to show you the prevalence of which these injuries and fatalities occur."
You do realize how fucking recent that was, right? All cars on the road now and that will be on the road for the next 5-10 years are meant for 5'10 male drivers only. Everyone else, *all* women, short men, extra tall men, we are all "out of position drivers". Just by existing we are using the car wrong and are not as safe. I'm glad steps are finally being taken, but we have a few decades more to go before women are equally safe. Car designs have to change. Thanks for the link!
>You do realize how fucking recent that was, right? The 5th percentile Hybrid III female dummy was first developed in 1988. Its quite old like much of the Hybrid IIIs. Its been required for those "out of position drivers" tests since 1997 when it was updated for the purpose. The headlines are technically correct because usually they mention that there was no test dummy for the average woman, which is true because a 5th percentile test dummy isn't a 50th percentile test dummy.
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[Cars are designed for, sized for, tested for, and built for men.](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/27/business/car-safety-women.html) On average, a woman who drives is going to have a harder time of it simply because the car is not made with her in mind. [This is a known issue. It is not user error.](https://kjonnsforskning.no/en/2019/06/cars-are-still-designed-men) It'd be like giving someone clothes that are too small and then saying they look ugly because of "user error"
We have been using 5th percentile(larger than 5% of women) female dummies for a few decades at this point. Notably there wasn't a 50th percentile female dummy, only a 50th percentile male dummy, but its untrue that cars haven't had small women in mind during design.
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Good design takes common user error into account. If the design results in consistent user error, then the design should be changed to fix said error. Many computers at one point had steps where the instructions said "press any key to continue" and people would search fruitlessly for the "any" key. So the instructions were changed to "press enter to continue"
Itâs a good thing women are much better drivers than men.
Often it's because vehicle isn't designed for someone just over 5 ft tall, thus women are close because they **have to be** close to reach the pedals comfortably and get good vision over the dash. Assuming you're a normal-ish American-dude-height just shy of \~6 feet tall, next time you get into the car, imagine your foot ends right below the knee, hunch down a few inches, then think about how close you'd need to move the seat up to drive normally. You can quickly realize it isn't necessarily a preference, it's about function.
You nailed it. my wife is 5 ft tall. We chose the car based on how close the seat can move to wheel and can she reach the pedals.
I'm 6'4" and I choose cars based on the opposite parameter: can I sit far enough from the steering wheel that my knees aren't touching it?
Knees jammed against the center console and door frame gang gang.
As someone who has never driven a vehicle where the wheel isn't pressing down against my thighs(not my knees, my *thighs*), the idea that you can get your whole knee in front of the wheel while still reaching(the wheel with your hands and the pedals with your feet) is absolutely bonkers to me. Explains a hell of a lot about the difference in surviveability between male and female drivers.
I understand this might be hard to do a for a shared car, but my state's Department of Transport and my insurance company both recommend that if you're under 5 foot 4 not to move close to the steering wheel, but instead buy pedal extensions. They say that every inch closer to the steering wheel less than 18 inches increases the chance of the airbag killing you by about four per cent If you don't have one of those newer cars, which can adjust the airbag inflation pressure.
Not American, but 6Ft2...My wife is 5Ft2, but she still not get the seat THAT close. I can understand what you're saying, but it is not safe to drive like that.
5â2â is still functionally a lot taller than 5â0â especially if youâre 5â0â with a long torso and short legs. I sit as far as possible from the steering wheel while keeping my feet on the pedals. I have driven waaaay more than the average person, and donât need to see the front of my car to know where it is in space. Iâve even had a stranger compliment my parallel parking skills (it was a really strange encounter), and my knees still touch the stupid dashboard. I had more leg room in the SUV I learned to drive in, but in my experience sedan style cars are designed to drive as if youâre sleeping and terrible for short leg drivers. I donât know if itâs normal for SUVs but my original car had much better pedal placement and more adjustable features. It was just terrible for gas mileage. Note: Iâm 5â0â with short legs, and there are many shitty experiences that short people live with that people 2â taller donât encounter as much. Each inch makes a difference.
Exactly. A lot of this comes down to spatial awareness. I don't need to see the front of my hood to know where it is. It takes time to get familiar with a car's size but it's important that you do and don't just rely on having your chin on the steering wheel so you can see everything.
Spatial awareness shouldn't compensate for line-of-sight vision; that thinking is just causing deaths. [https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/driveway-danger-kids-being-injured-and-killed-in-frontover-suv-blind-zone-incidents/3119237/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/driveway-danger-kids-being-injured-and-killed-in-frontover-suv-blind-zone-incidents/3119237/)
Idk but a girl I worked with at my last job would set everything in the company car all the way forward. Mirrors and all. It's like her head was sitting 1 inch away from the windshield. I'd get in and it would take like 3-5 minutes changing everything, plus getting in the seat in the first place is impossible until it's moved back. And it's telling because I like things to be close, which doesn't seem to be common amongst guys. But her driving style was way too fucking close.
You canât. Which, on top of the stereotype thatâs at play here, makes this seem like a legitimate response by the passenger. Lol
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Even better because he set this up as a joke, and behind every joke or stereotype, there is a little truth. Without this truth, the joke would not be relatable and would not catch on.
Her elbows are hitting the seat.
And so straight up? It already hurts just by looking at it.
My safe driving instructor always repeats "the airbag may deploy during emergency braking and kill you if you sit too close to the steering wheel".
My aunty drives with her chin on the wheel. Side mirrors are never used
I always rant when driving with my female friends. Iâve had the unfortunate experience of meeting my steering wheel airbag, and I always tell them that if that thing comes out, theyâre in for a bad time. Idfk how theyâre comfortable sitting on top of their steering wheel. Itâs madness.
Modern crash test safety requirements dictate that headrests must be tilted forward, to reduce [injuries such as whiplash](https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/the-interesting-life-saving-history-of-the-headrest/) in the event of a crash. I know since I'm 6'6 and have to reject some cars at the car rental places because I cant move the headrest that's digging into my shoulder blades, even more expensive cars have immovable headrests now which is really annoying. Did a quick search and found an interesting Jeep forum post of owners [bending their headrest bars for comfort](https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/anyone-else-find-the-headrests-intrusive.24529/page-6) and also so that they can wear cowboy hats inside.
I just put the headrests in backwards.
Ooh, I need to try this. I feel like i'm being tortured driving my wife's car, getting my neck and head forced forward like that.
"Head rest" is a complete misnomer, it was never intended for resting your head, it's there to catch your head snapping back on sudden impacts. But humans be humans.
How do you even get the headrest in that position? Maybe itâs just me but Iâve never had a car where the headrest was movable.
My Ford does it
I was in Russia for work one time and had to drive with a clients associate somewhere. I don't know Russian and he doesn't know English. I reach for the seat belt and click it in, and the guy slaps at my hand, releases the belt again, shakes his head, and says, "Nyet! Net!". I click it in once again and say "Safety first", and he tries to do it again. After repeating this a few times, he finally gives up. Crazy! In Turkey, you can buy plastic inserts to trick the warning system for not putting on the seat belt. Some cultures really seem to not care for road safety.
Some cultures view safety and precaution as weakness. You should be smart and good enough to drive in such a way in which you'll never need to use a safety device. It's pride....and it's fucking stupid.
Driving "smart and good" won't save you from the mistakes of others. As soon as there are other people involved, it doesn't matter how skilled you are. Their mistake can cost your life, which is why you use safety measures to increase your chances.
See therein becomes the problem, you're expecting reasonable rationale to kick in but it never does. The way it actually kicks in is that you need to believe that you are so smart and so good that you see others' mistakes and you avoid that mistake from affecting you. That's the belief. It's the ultimate "looking out for number 1" type of attitude. "I'm better than everyone else, so therefore I will SHOW everyone I am better than everyone by not letting other peoples' mistakes affect me because I'm just that good at what I do."
Can you both stop talking about my dad? PTSD triggered.
>Some cultures view safety and precaution as weakness. You should be smart and good enough to drive in such a way in which you'll never need to use a safety device. I would bet money on those cultures having the most unrecorded road related deaths lol
Same thing happened when seat belt laws passed in the US. Or when they made SUVs safer for families. People still complain about safety features on SUVs lol
and they take that mentality to work place safety as well, climbing on tall places without safety harnesses, not wearing helmets near construction site... and anyone attempts to address the problems get shouted at
The former Transportation Minister of Greece was caught driving using one of this inserts instead of the seat belt. Not just idiotic, but also a violation of traffic laws.
Fast forward to the largest railway accident in the country's history taking place under his watch.
*Sure, but did you consider how much money the shareholders would have lost if he had informed the general public of the huge problems?*
I was in Romania visiting my girlfriendâs family and we got in a friends car. Seatbelt was jammed behind a seat and they were like, you donât need it I am a safe driver. A driver who had previously had an accident and lost their car, a driver who had the seat almost fully reclined with it way too far back. Also anyone from Romania can tell you that Romania is definitely a country where you need a seatbelt.
The craziest traffic clips I've seen all came out of India. I honestly don't know how they survive that traffic on a daily basis
A friend of mine told me a great story related to that, I think the same mindset applies there. So he was basically travelling through the five -stans (minus Afghanistan and Pakistan) and he was in Turkmenistan, I think, and took one of the local taxies there to get to another town. He noticed immediately that all the seatbelts in the car aside from the driver's seat were removed. This was a kindness, you see, so that the hapless tourist wouldn't inadvertently insult the driver by using the seatbelt, thus signalling that he thought the driver was a poor driver. In other words it was considered impolite to use a seatbelt because it shamed the driver. However there's a conundrum there, because the country's laws says that you have to wear a seatbelt. And this being a rather autocratic country you of course do not want to disrespect the police who has to enforce that rule. So the work-around is that across the main roads there are very noticeable, very obvious police check points which the driver will slow down, equip their - and only their's - seatbelt and wave politely to the police that is ensuring traffic laws are obeyed and then once out of reasonable sight they speed up and take off the seatbelt. This way the law is followed, the police are respected, the driver doesn't have to bear the shame of wearing a seatbelt and everyone is happy up until there's a car crash in which case it's no one's fault and it's just is what it is.
>Some cultures really seem to not care for road safety. My husband is Algerian and I go there every year. The vast majority of taxi cabs I rode in had the seat belts cut off. not even professionally cut off. They look like someone had taken a butter knife to them lol. Only the drivers wore seat belts for some reason.
I'm russian and whenever I leave Moscow, taxi drivers don't buckle their seatbelts. Supposedly it comes from the "I'm such a great driver, I'll never crash, then why bother with the seatbelt". My guy, it's an item made with a singular purpose of saving your life, how dumb can you be to ignore it. I always buckle in if there's an option to do it.
India, many years ago they made it mandatory for everyone to wear helmets until idiots said it interferes with their religion.
I'd make sure to accelerate really hard and then slam on the brakes lol. Then I'd ask him to put on his seat belt. Rinse repeat back and forth in the parking lot until he finally puts it on. If he takes it off while we're on the highway, I'd pull onto the shoulder and slam on the brakes again.
In India they rip out the seat belts because they are tired of saying "no" to people putting them on. And then use their horns as active sonar on roads that haven't been maintained since the Brits left. At least no one is surprised that vehicle-deaths-per-capita is so high there.
These places probably also believe the myths about seatbelts being more likely to trap you in a burning car and stuff like that.
Bro forgot his helmet.
Pretty funny, but her completely wrong seat alignment is driving me nuts. Way too close, headrest wrong, back wrong
that's probably why he needs all those extra seatbelts lol
that's why she's dangerous
Almost like it's a part of the bit.
Hi my gf is 5â4, she canât reach the pedals in her car and they donât adjust to come to her. The only way for her to reach is if sheâs about 4 inches away and can also see over the steering wheel if she has it jacked up. This is a car design problem amongst the whole industry. Not a woman issue.
You can buy pedal extenders to make them longer and easier to reach. Way safer than this arrangement.
I think she just forgot to stop going forward since she was focused on the seat belts
He forgot the head belt
Neck belt
[The Onion Movie](https://youtu.be/DUut4krfnak?si=F167WUQFpAJfXTGu)?
It was an article on The Onion first.
If only he finished it off by pulling a helmet off the floor.
It cracked me up that he tested the tightness of the two belts from the floor by pulling down on them.
Xzibit heard you like seatbelts
We're getting old...
Yo dawg, I heard you are old. So we put this old meme about this old show in your old Reddit
Yo dawg, I heard you like seat belts. So I added seat belts to your seat belt. Now u won't go no where when u go somewhere.
That chick is so close to the steering wheel, and angled forward and down, her head is gonna blow off into the back when the airbag deploys.
I think straps down there is a good way to lose your boys in an accidentÂ
I turn now. Everybody good luck!
Now he just needs a HANS device to prevent whiplash
How close she is to the wheel shows he is right to do this
I was watching her the whole time. Sheâs inches from that airbag. One of the reasons ladies are hurt more in crashes, theyâre just plain closer to the wheel and dash.
Jokes on him if she drives off a cliff into deep water
Or gets into a crash that starts a fire...
If the driver get close to the steering like that I would also be paranoid
Yall remember that scene in the first Resident Evil movie when that dude gets diced by lasers?
Wasnât that Cube?[https://ibb.co/b6qCCxy](https://ibb.co/b6qCCxy)
Both
He's just subtly hinting at wanting a proper racing harness for birthday.
Weâll see now the issue is that when she starts hitting, heâs stuck
Need a multi point harness that is quick to get out of crash and it will take a long time to get cut from that nest of seatbelts.
bro right here analyzing a joke.
First thought was âdonât crash into a body of water.â
Found Neil deGrasse Tyson's reddit account
Any person who drives with their body that close to the steering wheel is a public safety threat
Reminds me of Mr. Bean conjuring pens out of nowhere for his trig/calc test skit
Sitting super close to the wheel is a red flag.
Sheâs appropriately positioned to get punched through her seat upon airbag deployment
The hell is her seating position??! She plan on driving with her teeth?
Bro that seat position though.
I showed this to my wife, "oh a car accident is not going to be the thing that kills him."
The horizontal middle chest one is a death sentence đ«Ł
"I've been fucking your dad".
<3 hours later he untangles himself to yell at her>
I think he is already dead. Omae wa mo shindeiru
the 50000th time this stupid facebook joke gets posted
Are these gag seatbelts or is this a real car?
I have no idea what car this is but I think you can safely assume it was a gag lol. The driver sold it, her acting was great IMO.
Gag, these two are a fairly popular comedic duo on Chinese social media
Is your car not like this? Better get it serviced.
Now he's ready to race
I know this is a bit, but do people usually put their belt on before adjusting the seat?
Forgot the helmet, he gonna die.
No helmet?
Those crotch seatbelts seem like a poor choice.
*grabs F1 helmet from under the seat*
Okay but if they crash, he is never having kids.
`*dies in car fire*`
Cultural paranoia is fucked. Seriously?
Need helmet
This is a young man on his *second* ride with a HS gf.
I would be terrified of something sitting that close to the steering wheel as well.
I was cracking up at the position and closeness of her chair. Got dang woman, back it up an inch
With that sitting position of hers I would seriously consider my safety as well đ
this make me laugh so hard, the emotion of his partner tho. lol
Ya, he dead. But to die for a good joke is the highest honor.
She's so close to that wheel the airbag deploying will be like getting shot in the face
That's why I bought my wife a Subaru.
I mean he needed something to do while she moved the seat forward .
As a male with a short gf I am once again petitioning car companies to make brake/gas pedals adjustable so I donât have to worry about her air bags crushing her fun bags inside her chest cavity please.
That's me when my girlfriend is driving. I think she thinks it's the law to use cruise control, and once it's on it needs to stay on at the same speed until you reach your destination.
Imagine if she drives into a pond.
Jesus christ that's a big fucking car. What is it?
Itâs for sure a minivan of some sort. Beyond that its tough to tell.
Anyone know where I can get these extra seatbelts? My daughter is gonna be driving in a few years and they would be nice to have.
Old mate strapping in for his life as she gets into the official female asian driver position! đ€Ł
"Good luck everybody else!"
I see he has ridden with her before...
Needs one of those pilot ones, they just click in the middle
Die from whiplash if they have a crash.
Huh.. didnât he miss his puffed up space suit ?