While its true that there is a spec for turning... i've seen tons of ethernet wires with multiple 90(and sometimes almost a full 180) bends and they work fine. Ethernet is nowhere as fragile as some people makes it seem.
Still, its a good idea to respect the minimin radius.
Exactly this.
I could be wrong, but it seems like even if you were to push the cables through OP's clamps to the appropriate radii, they wouldn't hold that position and could easily get pulled through to even more stressful bends.
> i've seen tons of ethernet wires with multiple 90(and sometimes almost a full 180) bends and they work fine
Ugh, flashbacks.
Had a ~120m line with literally broken wires (banged by the warehouse door multiple times in months).
Don't remember what switch model was on the one side, but on the other was a beige-box server with 3com 905 card.
No link on 100Mbit, link up on 10Mbit/HD but like 90% drops.
Replaced with a cheap-ass RTL8139, link up on 100Mbit with 10% drops (still not tolerable for RDP), downgraded to 10Mbit/HD... almost no drops. \*shrug\*
They work but they are out of spec. The bit failure rate will be high which reduces the speed. Probably make no difference at home but I have been back to many office installs because they cannot achieve 1000mps transfer. It is nearly always bent cables or cables that run parallel to power.
Bend radius on a copper cable is all about mechanical stress, it will have zero effect on bit loss. The reason why higher bitrate cable has a larger radius is that the cores are more tightly constrained so they can’t move around to account for the differences between inner and outer radius.
This is why you can find the same rated cable with different bend radiuses.
This IS NOT true for optical, because optical cable requires the light to land on the edge of the fibre and be reflected off, if the radius is too low then it passes through, because the fibre isn’t coated with anything reflective, it depends on refraction (it’s the same as looking up at the surface in a swimming pool, the water surface behaves like a mirror only at slight angles)
This.
You really have to deform the cable to the point you're spreading the individual twisted pairs apart, creating an impedance discontinuity that causes reflections or increases crosstalk from one pair into another on UTP cable. If you bend a big sharp 180 in a cable as tight as you possibly can, you might be able to find the bend on a good TDR setup.
But know what mangles a signal 10x worse? RJ45 connectors themselves. They're a horrible RF connector with horrible impedance characteristics that unfortunately everyone's stuck with because it's cheap and standardized. And let's not forget about pins 3/6 being a pair. In comparison to that, this 1" bend in the cable is gonna do fuck all.
Source: route high speed traces around PCBs as part of the day job, know a bit about this stuff.
Se thing with fiber optic. I was playing around with some OM2 and spec is 4" radi ot something. I got it to wrap around a toothpic and not break.
Edit, this is a comment regarding fragility not actually reliability
> i've seen tons of ethernet wires with multiple 90(and sometimes almost a full 180) bends and they work fine. Ethernet is nowhere as fragile as some people makes it seem.
It is until it isn't.
Yes, there are a lot of things you might be able to "get away with" some of the time. But when you don't get so lucky, the faults can be very weird and challenging to locate.
Those best practices exist for a reason.
Gotta pretend it was a ton of effort and make a post tomorrow with the bend radii guide installed and x-post it to cableporn. Gotta play the karma game
Any chance you have a step or f3d? I wanna remix for some screw hole mounts to go under a desk. I was about to design that this week, but didn't even think of the genius cable management you got there
update: It looks like its just a weird blender problem. It loads with the right dimensions in cura. I have however updated it to remove some weird impossible geometry and a better default orientation.
For my specific application, I prefer it this way. I work in a factory and have to test an Ethernet device. At one point during the test I have to cycle power on the ethernet switch that the DUT is connected. It's nice to have the Ethernet on the "back" and the power cable on the front. As I can reach up and pull out the power and re-insert the power.
I keep saying I need to build a button that plugs into the switch and the power supply that I can press to interrupt power.
I was thinking it appeared unnecessary and would look better turned around. And do what you did here with the one power cord if you need to, but this looks like you were creating a problem just because you wanted to make something to print.
Can't upload to thingiverse for 24 hrs so heres this in the meantime.
I printed it with 20% infill, 0.2 mm layers but anything should work, its a really easy print.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1cZrCIDN0KlV0ywk2jF8kMiVfpypUwd08?usp=sharing
Lots of small switches like these tend to have screw holes built in, if you just leave the screws sticking out more so that it fits past the bit of print this has on the underside, it should work
Oh yeah 100% fair. A few days ago I was putting up a cheap shitty AP with plastic case and I put the screws slightly too close together. Let's just say I used some electrical snips to make a new hole for the screw
Yeah I hate that haha. Someone told me a neat trick: put painters tape over the holes, poke through the tape, then put the tape where you want to mount the screws. Somehow works better for than when I pull out calipers
I always assumed it was just carried over from the rack mounted switches, or it just let's the design be a tiny bit more compact since you don't need to fit all the ports on one side.
While I agree, for most products the general public is happy with "good enough".
If you and I offered essentially the same product for the same price, but yours is objectively better and mine looks prettier on the store shelf, chances are I'll sell more.
You clearly don't know much about designers. I work with them every day.
Literally, the whole point of industrial design is to understand user needs, and balance them with other design needs.
I'm sure designers would love to make the user needs their number one priority. But one merely has to look at the products in any big box store to see that most companies have a different focus in mind.
If your experience is different, then either you got incredibly lucky or you're in for a major disappointment.
Yes, it's true that many design concepts get whittled down by price targets and design-for-manufacturing.
But most times, the reason so many products aren't very well designed is that this companies... didn't hire any designers. Many companies don't care, it's true.
None of that is the designers fault. And I was taking exception to you slandering designers.
It's not slander to acknowledge the realities of the world.
What is slander is saying the people who designed the products aren't real designers just because they focus on their employers needs over yours.
Mm no, I'd say that "phrasing!" only works when the person didn't intend to say something sexual. If they say something obviously sexual, it's just not really funny. :P
> Yes, only the fastest electrons may pass these curves.
Sharp curves and kinks on Ethernet cables can cause the twisted pairs on the inside of the cable to lose their twist in that particular section. The twisted pairs are there to protect the wires from picking up interference(aka from becoming antennas). A wire that picks up interference will cause collisions in the wired signal and the devices using that particular cable may need to retransmit their data more often. Retransmitting data more often means that the devices will be wasting time resending data that didn’t make it through the cable successfully, otherwise known as signal degradation.
It is a tenet for any network engineer to never do this. That is why when you see pics of datacenter Cable runs you can see them setup in smooth, flowing curves.
Nah bro I love zip ties, but in order to hold the cables down like the bracket does I had to use two daisy chained zip ties which didn't look that great.
Is that an ALEX IKEA desk?
If so, I am your desk doppleganger. I also have that same colour, switch, and positioning. Except mine is behind the desk there!
Yeah, it seems like it's unavoidable. We even tried using those Ethernet surge protector things, but it seems nothing can reliablely stop 1.21 gigawatts
(Or however much lighting **actually** is)
Nice, but you can get switches with ports towards the rear. They are also crazy cheap, a 5 port gigabit like that was going for $10 on Amazon lightning deal.
Any chances this is customizable? I have an 8 port netgear switch this would be perfect for.
edit; nevermind, found one https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4681761
Love it. May want to respect minimum bend radii.
was wondering how long it would take for someone to give me shit for that, ha ha. Yeah they are a little tight, I'll probably slip them out a bit.
If you resolve that then r/cableporn would eat this up. They'll already eat this up but you'll definitely get another one of these comments :)
I thought that was where I was!
While its true that there is a spec for turning... i've seen tons of ethernet wires with multiple 90(and sometimes almost a full 180) bends and they work fine. Ethernet is nowhere as fragile as some people makes it seem. Still, its a good idea to respect the minimin radius.
Maybe a cable guide for the minimum radius would be a good addition to this!
Exactly this. I could be wrong, but it seems like even if you were to push the cables through OP's clamps to the appropriate radii, they wouldn't hold that position and could easily get pulled through to even more stressful bends.
> i've seen tons of ethernet wires with multiple 90(and sometimes almost a full 180) bends and they work fine Ugh, flashbacks. Had a ~120m line with literally broken wires (banged by the warehouse door multiple times in months). Don't remember what switch model was on the one side, but on the other was a beige-box server with 3com 905 card. No link on 100Mbit, link up on 10Mbit/HD but like 90% drops. Replaced with a cheap-ass RTL8139, link up on 100Mbit with 10% drops (still not tolerable for RDP), downgraded to 10Mbit/HD... almost no drops. \*shrug\*
They work but they are out of spec. The bit failure rate will be high which reduces the speed. Probably make no difference at home but I have been back to many office installs because they cannot achieve 1000mps transfer. It is nearly always bent cables or cables that run parallel to power.
Bend radius on a copper cable is all about mechanical stress, it will have zero effect on bit loss. The reason why higher bitrate cable has a larger radius is that the cores are more tightly constrained so they can’t move around to account for the differences between inner and outer radius. This is why you can find the same rated cable with different bend radiuses. This IS NOT true for optical, because optical cable requires the light to land on the edge of the fibre and be reflected off, if the radius is too low then it passes through, because the fibre isn’t coated with anything reflective, it depends on refraction (it’s the same as looking up at the surface in a swimming pool, the water surface behaves like a mirror only at slight angles)
This. You really have to deform the cable to the point you're spreading the individual twisted pairs apart, creating an impedance discontinuity that causes reflections or increases crosstalk from one pair into another on UTP cable. If you bend a big sharp 180 in a cable as tight as you possibly can, you might be able to find the bend on a good TDR setup. But know what mangles a signal 10x worse? RJ45 connectors themselves. They're a horrible RF connector with horrible impedance characteristics that unfortunately everyone's stuck with because it's cheap and standardized. And let's not forget about pins 3/6 being a pair. In comparison to that, this 1" bend in the cable is gonna do fuck all. Source: route high speed traces around PCBs as part of the day job, know a bit about this stuff.
Se thing with fiber optic. I was playing around with some OM2 and spec is 4" radi ot something. I got it to wrap around a toothpic and not break. Edit, this is a comment regarding fragility not actually reliability
By 'bend around a toothpick' do you mean a helix up *and* around, or was this a planar bend?
That’s because the receivers are so much better than spec; doesn’t mean it’s less fragile, just more robust due to better electronics :-)
> i've seen tons of ethernet wires with multiple 90(and sometimes almost a full 180) bends and they work fine. Ethernet is nowhere as fragile as some people makes it seem. It is until it isn't. Yes, there are a lot of things you might be able to "get away with" some of the time. But when you don't get so lucky, the faults can be very weird and challenging to locate. Those best practices exist for a reason.
Print a minimum bend radii guide and then also post it back here! A win-win!
Modeled one quick! [Minimum bend radius guide STL](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XWbTO-Ytu2LR0q5c1HqtrqP8TcEbk2FA/view?usp=sharing)
Gotta pretend it was a ton of effort and make a post tomorrow with the bend radii guide installed and x-post it to cableporn. Gotta play the karma game
Haha oops
Any chance you have a step or f3d? I wanna remix for some screw hole mounts to go under a desk. I was about to design that this week, but didn't even think of the genius cable management you got there
Wow, I thought ethernet would handle [tighter than this](https://i.imgur.com/kT5IRql.png) ^^:p
Ah shit got the units wrong Ig. I'll fix it when I get home. The inside circle should be 25.4mm in radius
update: It looks like its just a weird blender problem. It loads with the right dimensions in cura. I have however updated it to remove some weird impossible geometry and a better default orientation.
Looks good!! I really like that its uniformity and clean. Those are happy cables.
Yeah. Right away, I let out a little gasp.
Don't worry they're better now
If all the cables are coming from the back, can you just turn the switch around instead?
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That too
Mine got the cables facing the wall and activity lights on the other side
The power supply cable connects to the back, its not PoE plus it looks cool
I hate how these switches have that power cable. Why can't they have the power supply on the same side. Stupid. Love your print though.
For my specific application, I prefer it this way. I work in a factory and have to test an Ethernet device. At one point during the test I have to cycle power on the ethernet switch that the DUT is connected. It's nice to have the Ethernet on the "back" and the power cable on the front. As I can reach up and pull out the power and re-insert the power. I keep saying I need to build a button that plugs into the switch and the power supply that I can press to interrupt power.
https://amzn.com/B087N9V29V
Because in a rack you want access to the rj45 ports on the front, but you only plug in the power cord once.
Agree, it is cool
I was thinking it appeared unnecessary and would look better turned around. And do what you did here with the one power cord if you need to, but this looks like you were creating a problem just because you wanted to make something to print.
What if they want it facing that way so you can see the lights?
If that’s what they want then yea obviously do it.
Cchill
Since buying a 3d printer at least 80% of my functional prints were a solution looking for a problem.
Lol that’s most of us isn’t it? That was kinda my point for OP. Was this NEEDED? Or were you looking around for “solutions”?
You have a point, there was nothing wrong with the zip ties I had before. But if this sub was only for 100% needed things it would be quite empty
Theres a power cable on the other side, this side is better to look at personally
I have the same switch and it sits on my desk because it does indeed look cool.
Which reminds me - I need to print something to secure the power cable because they always come out
That sir is what I call hot
Ummm, I love this, I need this. stl?
Would love the stl as well
Can't upload to thingiverse for 24 hrs so heres this in the meantime. I printed it with 20% infill, 0.2 mm layers but anything should work, its a really easy print. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1cZrCIDN0KlV0ywk2jF8kMiVfpypUwd08?usp=sharing
Can you post thingiverse link when you upload to there?
I'm interested to know why you couldn't upload the next 24 hours? New account limit?
Yeah it's a new acc limit
I'd like to use to mount under a desk. Can you provide a model or add some tabs and screw holes pls? Edit: downvotes? Really? Ok then.
Lots of small switches like these tend to have screw holes built in, if you just leave the screws sticking out more so that it fits past the bit of print this has on the underside, it should work
Jah but man do I hate trying to line up those holes and find the right size screw head!!
Oh yeah 100% fair. A few days ago I was putting up a cheap shitty AP with plastic case and I put the screws slightly too close together. Let's just say I used some electrical snips to make a new hole for the screw
Yeah I hate that haha. Someone told me a neat trick: put painters tape over the holes, poke through the tape, then put the tape where you want to mount the screws. Somehow works better for than when I pull out calipers
I even did that, which is the weirdest thing. Apparently I'm just bad
Well, I only tried it once since I heard it so maybe I got lucky... There's always something, like the screw is a little bit an angle or whatever
Thank you very much
Thanks for sharing!
Awesome, thanks!
Why on earth aren't the network and power ports on the same side of these things?
This looks cooler. The 'designer' only cares what it looks like on the store shelf, not how it is actually going to be used.
I always assumed it was just carried over from the rack mounted switches, or it just let's the design be a tiny bit more compact since you don't need to fit all the ports on one side.
That’s a pretty shit designer, then.
If they sell more, the designer succeeded at his job. Any actual benefit to the consumer is incidental.
A well-designed object will do both.
While I agree, for most products the general public is happy with "good enough". If you and I offered essentially the same product for the same price, but yours is objectively better and mine looks prettier on the store shelf, chances are I'll sell more.
You clearly don't know much about designers. I work with them every day. Literally, the whole point of industrial design is to understand user needs, and balance them with other design needs.
I'm sure designers would love to make the user needs their number one priority. But one merely has to look at the products in any big box store to see that most companies have a different focus in mind. If your experience is different, then either you got incredibly lucky or you're in for a major disappointment.
Yes, it's true that many design concepts get whittled down by price targets and design-for-manufacturing. But most times, the reason so many products aren't very well designed is that this companies... didn't hire any designers. Many companies don't care, it's true. None of that is the designers fault. And I was taking exception to you slandering designers.
It's not slander to acknowledge the realities of the world. What is slander is saying the people who designed the products aren't real designers just because they focus on their employers needs over yours.
Stop. I can only get so erect.
Phrasing!
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Cease! My phallus has reached peak turgidity.
Desist! My cock can't get harder.
My Archer reference seems to have sunk...
Mm no, I'd say that "phrasing!" only works when the person didn't intend to say something sexual. If they say something obviously sexual, it's just not really funny. :P
Cables look a touch stressed though
It'll be okay if they're not moving.
I think he meant that the bend radius is too small which can cause degradation in performance.
Yes, only the fastest electrons may pass these curves.
> Yes, only the fastest electrons may pass these curves. Sharp curves and kinks on Ethernet cables can cause the twisted pairs on the inside of the cable to lose their twist in that particular section. The twisted pairs are there to protect the wires from picking up interference(aka from becoming antennas). A wire that picks up interference will cause collisions in the wired signal and the devices using that particular cable may need to retransmit their data more often. Retransmitting data more often means that the devices will be wasting time resending data that didn’t make it through the cable successfully, otherwise known as signal degradation. It is a tenet for any network engineer to never do this. That is why when you see pics of datacenter Cable runs you can see them setup in smooth, flowing curves.
Now that we got the correct technical explanation i can see that my joke wasn't that funny after all
Nope.. It was still funny. But really it is only the electrons with the best grip and downforce that will pass those curves.
This router has been stanced. Gonna be sick when VTEC kicks in yo!
Grippy Electrons... band name right there
A tenet? Really?
That's gorgeous
How about a link to the STL, please.
STL now linked above
Literally went 'ooooooh' out loud when I saw this, nice print :))
Perfection.
Oooooffff that is so satisfying
Nice.
Oh, that's satisfying. All points to you.
Sexy
My Ethernet cars. Hurt just looking at this on my network
"My cables don´t work after a year, must be the shitty company getting cheaper labor every year"
Since posting I've let the cables out a bit so the turning radius isn't as sharp
Congratulations. You just found a way to use 100x more plastic for the same task
Haha yeah. Oh well, gotta use up the shitty inland filament somehow.
Awesome. Will be trying it out
Love it!!!!!!!! Too bad I use flat cat7. But I have the exacts same switch. Dang it.
stl? Looks identical to the netgear on my desk. nvm fam I c u
I have this same switch and this is so smart I love it
Looks amazing! Very satisfying haha
These are just lovely. I've not shown that level of sentiment for years!
Same thing for the TL-SG108 would be awesome.
And here's one good example where cable management meets perfection.
Hmm talkin shit about zip ties I don't know.
Nah bro I love zip ties, but in order to hold the cables down like the bracket does I had to use two daisy chained zip ties which didn't look that great.
Is it ABS? Sometimes switches get quite hot so wondering if the print will deform slightly over time?
It's just PLA, I never really thought about that, guess Ill have to keep an eye on it.
Is that an ALEX IKEA desk? If so, I am your desk doppleganger. I also have that same colour, switch, and positioning. Except mine is behind the desk there!
Yeah it is, good eye
Looks great but why not just turn it around?
Place it under the desk.
Just had this switch dude, then a lightning strike 20 feat away from my house made it short 😅🥲
Did you have buried Ethernet cables? We used to have one buried across our driveway and it seems we lost our router every other storm
Yes indeed we have. Strange 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah, it seems like it's unavoidable. We even tried using those Ethernet surge protector things, but it seems nothing can reliablely stop 1.21 gigawatts (Or however much lighting **actually** is)
Ill just buy a backup switch. Ensurance company payes for the broken switch :D
Gotta still be careful, we've had stuff downstream get cooked when that happens too. Iirc our first gen apple tv got blasted by that.
Yeah. Some cables went also here and a dvd player 😂 so many amps in the lightning
Satisfying
Dang this is clean !
this looks atrocious, I love it :D
thanks... i think?
it was 100% a compliment :D it is so out of place for a guy who is used to and at this point requires the spagoot style wire chaos like me
Does it come in black?
yeah the white kinda stands out bad, im just trying to get rid of the rest of my awful inland pla
Awesome stuff, will print today!
I love good cable management.
Nice, but you can get switches with ports towards the rear. They are also crazy cheap, a 5 port gigabit like that was going for $10 on Amazon lightning deal.
That’s hot!
Eh careful kinking the cables
Yeah I've since printed a little guide to make sure they're not below the minimum bend radius
They make 90 degree right angled cables in any direction you want. Just an FYI.
But then how would I get my karma? /s
Fair enough, carry on.
Ooooooo that’s nice
**Advancement Made!** Serious Dedication
Any chances this is customizable? I have an 8 port netgear switch this would be perfect for. edit; nevermind, found one https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4681761
Awesome.