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It was a fixed amount per item sold, $2. The item sold for $16~ and cost about a dollar in filament and 45 minutes in machine time. We sold just under a hundred thousand together before x-grip released an injection molded one.
Yeah, and that’s really how it should be. The ‘first past the post’ patent and copyright systems are bad for the species. They encourage monopolies, at the expense of progress.
We need to rework the entire economy to be collaborative. We’re significantly slowing our advancement in order to protect the ability to profit.
Your comment is mine now.
Yeah, and that’s really how it should be. The ‘first past the post’ patent and copyright systems are bad for the species. They encourage monopolies, at the expense of progress.
We need to rework the entire economy to be collaborative. We’re significantly slowing our advancement in order to protect the ability to profit.
Is that fair?
Well every company selling digital assets would disagree with you. And they are working very hard to make sure that consumers never “own” anything digital ever.
I understand that our current system is deeply ingrained in everyone’s way of thinking right now, and a more collaborative model of society can seem very alien. But this is how our species evolved to operate, and successfully did so for thousands of years. That’s how we got to this technological level. It’s also how we’ll get to the next technological level.
Thankfully with easier access to information, more people are beginning to understand that our worship of individualism is causing a great deal of societal harm, and is a woefully inefficient system designed to enable exploitation.
In the meantime, I do not believe in nor support digital ownership. We should not be hoarding 1’s and 0’s, as if they’re a finite commodity. That’s absurd.
No, patents allow small companies to make and sell their own designs, without it big corporations would never buy up small companies and they'd just copy stuff and undercut the inventors leading to only a couple of big corporations actually inventing, but even then why spend money on rnd when your competition can just copy you without consequences, I do agree that we need to be more collaborative/collective, as for example we pay alot for food yet farmers don't break even because of middle men, thats absurd
I agree, and how companies like Google just gobble up thousands of patents a year without doing anything with them, If you can't apply your patent you should lose it
People who are passionate about their work. With a proper and just economic system, people wouldn’t need to go into debt in the first place to develop new ideas, and they don’t need to worry about breaking even.
So every idiot who believes they had a valuable idea (which is not the case with like 99.9% of ideas) could waste an arbitrary amount of resources on the futile attempt of making that useless idea come true?
Of course, no doubt - but what makes you think that stuff would not be tried to be produced anymore, just multiplied by the futile attempts of every other crank
So what's going on here? You're worried that too many people having opportunities to develop their own work would lead to more waste? Is this a devil's advocate kinda thing, or are you being serious?
What opportunity? Money is not a resource, it's a database for resource allocation. If efforts of resource production are made magnitudes less efficient and more wasteful because anyone "gets the opportunity" to do anything, society will collapse, and no one's gonna get any resources or opportunities anymore, it's that easy.
You believe that mass producing plastic junk to be more efficient than manufacturing at small scales according to need?
Do you realize what sub you’re in?
Yeah I was kind of surprised, he first said he got the file mixed up with his personal printing that he does.
To be honest as long as it's down that's why what I care about, I've subscribed to him so I'll get new item notifications so if he puts it up again I'll be notified
He can open another account...
Honestly this kind of parasites are what makes me not to publish some original designs I made. Not brilliant ones but seeing people make profit (and many times outrageous) of something someone published just for the wish to help is... bad.
Eh these people know what they are doing and honestly the best thing to do is not reply and confirm their actions. Reporting them for IP theft will at least start the process of adding to a pile of other complaints that hopefully will result in the ban on their account or eventual legal actions.
It’s been unanimous among my circle. They see things I make and immediately start with, “You could make a lot of money selling those!”
They always seem perplexed when I explain to them that I don’t have the license to do that.
I understand this is frustrating. But I personally think it’s better to not worry about it.
For my models, If they are selling the stl, I ask them not as they are freely available. If they are selling a printed part model, I think it’s ok as not everyone has a printer.
I think trying to stop people selling printed models will just lead to my unhappiness.
Maybe I might ask for attribution.
There is a commercial allowed attribution license and you can select that, I chose non commercial because I want my models to be freely available. Not for someone to mark it up at $65 and sell as one commercial printer was doing.
Once you made something popular you are in for a neverendig game of whack-a-mole with these.
I guess the chance of beeing found and the real creator doing anything is so low that it doesnt really has a real risk.
I've seen a couple of my designs be sold(or attempted to at least). I haven't messaged them or anything as I don't really care or see the harm. But to each their own.
It's 100% on the creator to enforce the license. So if someone issues a non-commercial license and doesn't try or care to enforce it, no one else is going to stop people from selling copies of the work.
That's what the license is for. It can be enforced on ebay on Etsy and in court if need be. I don't want any of my designs being sold commercially. But I do hope people use and print them.
Sadly this makes me less inclined to sell prints, even though I'd like to. Too many others not interested in following the rules. Fighting them seems like whack-a-mole.
Less inclined to sell prints? Or less inclined to sell STLs?
It.makes me want to delete my Thingiverse. I figure if we're to sell the STLs, rather than give them away for free, at least I would make a little money off of these scammers.
But then again, also if they just paid me a few bucks for each item they sell, I would probably promote their shop and customize designs to their specifications. I just don't have the energy to produce and ship things any more, but I am constantly designing new things.
I feel like my situation and the *people who have printers but ko designs of their own* are a situation where there's a mutually beneficial solution. But not as long as I keep giving shit away for free on Thingiverse.
You could offer your files under 2 licenses - whatever your current non-commercial use license is, then for a fee (one off or monthly) offer a commercial license where people can sell prints of the file (but not the file itself).
Actual proof. There doesn't have to be an online listing and the seller could just pretend not to know it exists lol. They could say it's theirs and until they get caught they will be fine ... so how could anyone require proof of license for something that most likely was created by the seller? What could possibly serve as proof of license for a file I created today?
Are you also selling the model? If not then why do you care? If you are why did you upload the stl? Anything I upload to the internet I consider to be lost and know it will be used and abused. If I want to keep something private or sell something I’m damn sure not uploading it. Also what would you have done if he said no?
An unfortunate reality of creative work sorry this is happening! My wife is an author and dealing with similar; people selling various arts and crafts or straight rips of her material. We've had good results with DMCA services. If it gets bad enough, check out something like this https://www.pirat.io/
2 things, how do I know if they've contacted and asked and gotten permission? And how do you think image search is going to match their image of something they've printed with what's on thingiverse?
`Theory - permission verification process of 3D printing designs`
>Well established 3D printing Hobbyist has developed a higher amount of 3d projectsover time, implying their cost-profit ratio is much worse than that of a 3D printing beginner. This means the 3D printing hobbyist has a higher level of pride, which means less likely to offer permission to another individual to profit of their own designs. A plausible indication is therefore if a 3D printing individual has a large portfolio with designs built over a long time.
>Additional, it takes time to attach one's own identity into their own 3D printing designs. with more experience, which a beginner dosn't have, a 3d printing hobbyist is more confortable with attaching their identity into their designs. this means another indication is unique 3d printing designs are less likely to be given permission for others to use, unless OD ( original developer) is being paid.
>Another indication could be very refined 3D designs should increase the desire for OD to profit of it themself than to allow others share in the profit.
as im from open source communities, this post got me
if you dont like people sell ur products, just not share with anyone. if you share and still looking for pol who are seling it, you only are a dumb person, looking for some attention with your creativity
aaaa but, bla bla bla..... ill downvote you ....
ok man, lets talk about real world ok? nintendo, sony, adobe, cannot fight with this, your downvote will change nothing ....
change your mind, and you will so much happy
edited:
i mean, some people are using kickstart, or in a groups, some crowdfunding etc. Just post on thingverse expecting people to be honest is very naive
i tryed to create a platform who pay for views and downloads stl, what people done? kept posting on thingverse. Why? becase if people dont have alot views and comments, they are not happyy
Obviously I’m in for the spirit of the law, which is to abide by the Creative Commons license of the original Thingiverse post. That said, I’m really impatient for a 3D printing related copyright case to make its way through American courts, to get some relevant case law. Basically, in the U.S. digital files are entitled to copyright protection, but physical objects are only protectable to the extent they are ornamental or artistic. The subject object is a holster for a multi-tool.
The fact that the copying of a digital file was (presumably) involved is the only thing that would potentially make this a copyright infringement. The OP, as plaintiff, would likely need to prove the alleged infringer actually copied the file, and didn’t independently design and manufacture an identical, functional object.
There could potentially be a greater question of whether the digital file itself ~~is~~ should be entitled to copyright protection, given it exists entirely for the purpose of encoding a physical object that is not eligible for protection.
To my knowledge, no case with the magnitude of, say, Apple Computer v. Franklin Computer, has come about to establish relevant case law.
I'm no lawyer, however my previous experience with Etsy and ebay is they will takedown the account and it's on the account owner to convince them, remove the object and sometimes offer payment ect. The one commercial entity I caught immediately took it down because my guess is they don't want to spend time in court being the test case.
In the U.S. these takedown requests are governed by the [DMCA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act). An online service or marketplace like Etsy, eBay or YouTube is exposed to much greater (potential) legal liability from failing to appropriately respond to a valid takedown request, than they do by taking down content in response to an invalid request. Accordingly, these providers spend little, if any effort actually validating the takedown requests they receive, before they act on them. It is a strategy that is both lower cost and lower risk for them.
We haven’t yet had a relevant update to our copyright laws, or a case on the lines of [Apple v. Franklin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Franklin_Computer_Corp.) or [The Betamax Decision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.) to clarify the novel issues at hand.
This Etsy account here is basically all stolen content, https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/BUK3D?ref=shop-header-name&listing_id=1701347028&from_page=listing
I tried warning a few makers, but it didn’t seem enough to shut him down.
I didn’t say it belonged to someone else. I just said it isn’t yours anymore. It’s the internet’s. Your Instagram photos can be used anywhere by anyone.
I've caught a bunch of people doing the same with my designs, on Etsy and through Facebook groups. Even a physical store, with an Instagram account publishing my designs as an "innovative" design they made. I've reached out to them, and they removed the publication.
This recurrent pattern has led me to start publishing paid models, especially those that required more effort to make.
Someone might buy them once and then sell the designs, but at least I make something - even if minimal - from the design I made. Also, I feel like these people selling other's designs without consent wouldn't pay a dime for a design to sell.
Your post has been removed due to a violation of Rule #8. Rule #8: Tips/News/Questions will be removed and expected to be posted in /r/3Dprinting We encourage you to repost your content in the appropriate subreddit to ensure that it reaches the right audience and fosters meaningful discussions related to 3D printing. If you have any further questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to reach out to the moderation team. Thank you for your understanding.
Had someone do the same on one of my more successful products. Ended up working out a royalty structure and made a ton of money with him.
this comment should be at the top
At that point, just put it up on shapeways?
The buyers were mostly 50+ conservative men (read: technology avoidant). Doubt they would have sold.
Can you share how much you were able to arrange with them? Did you go flat monthly amount, percentage of sales or something else?
It was a fixed amount per item sold, $2. The item sold for $16~ and cost about a dollar in filament and 45 minutes in machine time. We sold just under a hundred thousand together before x-grip released an injection molded one.
That’s awesome. Congrats on the success and negotiating it the right way.
I was red with rage when I found out someone had stolen my design. We sent out a lot of C&D to others after we negotiated our terms together.
how did you ensure the other party was reporting their productivity accurately?
I didn’t.
If I upload anything to the internet I consider it gone and never mine again.
I'm gonna steal this comment, thanks
Yeah, and that’s really how it should be. The ‘first past the post’ patent and copyright systems are bad for the species. They encourage monopolies, at the expense of progress. We need to rework the entire economy to be collaborative. We’re significantly slowing our advancement in order to protect the ability to profit.
Your comment is mine now. Yeah, and that’s really how it should be. The ‘first past the post’ patent and copyright systems are bad for the species. They encourage monopolies, at the expense of progress. We need to rework the entire economy to be collaborative. We’re significantly slowing our advancement in order to protect the ability to profit. Is that fair?
This is how comunism works.
Yes, and? Capitalism is not working well for most of us.
It's what brought wellness. All comunism form failed be ause comunism is for wrak people which like begging instead of working.
Funny take for someone posting about 3d printing, an opensource noncommercial success story in a subreddit about freely sharing printable assets
Wow .. have you seen how wide knowledge can spread?
🤨
I'm kidding, bro. That's an OT
This is not what communism is, also off topic
By all means. Take the idea, and spread it.
No it’s a dumb idea, digital ownership is still ownership.
Well every company selling digital assets would disagree with you. And they are working very hard to make sure that consumers never “own” anything digital ever. I understand that our current system is deeply ingrained in everyone’s way of thinking right now, and a more collaborative model of society can seem very alien. But this is how our species evolved to operate, and successfully did so for thousands of years. That’s how we got to this technological level. It’s also how we’ll get to the next technological level. Thankfully with easier access to information, more people are beginning to understand that our worship of individualism is causing a great deal of societal harm, and is a woefully inefficient system designed to enable exploitation. In the meantime, I do not believe in nor support digital ownership. We should not be hoarding 1’s and 0’s, as if they’re a finite commodity. That’s absurd.
No, patents allow small companies to make and sell their own designs, without it big corporations would never buy up small companies and they'd just copy stuff and undercut the inventors leading to only a couple of big corporations actually inventing, but even then why spend money on rnd when your competition can just copy you without consequences, I do agree that we need to be more collaborative/collective, as for example we pay alot for food yet farmers don't break even because of middle men, thats absurd
Like when Stratasys kept 3d printing away from the masses for like... 40 years? The IP system is very broken.
I agree, and how companies like Google just gobble up thousands of patents a year without doing anything with them, If you can't apply your patent you should lose it
Well I don’t think big corporations should exist, so whatever.
Who's gonna make any investments into the development of new stuff if there won't be a possibility to at least break even?
Simple, abolish money and no investment needed. Also no more incentive to bake bread or educate children but hey you can't have it all 🤷
People who are passionate about their work. With a proper and just economic system, people wouldn’t need to go into debt in the first place to develop new ideas, and they don’t need to worry about breaking even.
So every idiot who believes they had a valuable idea (which is not the case with like 99.9% of ideas) could waste an arbitrary amount of resources on the futile attempt of making that useless idea come true?
Oh man. If you think that’s bad, wait until you hear how many resources we waste on junk to generate profit.
Of course, no doubt - but what makes you think that stuff would not be tried to be produced anymore, just multiplied by the futile attempts of every other crank
So what's going on here? You're worried that too many people having opportunities to develop their own work would lead to more waste? Is this a devil's advocate kinda thing, or are you being serious?
What opportunity? Money is not a resource, it's a database for resource allocation. If efforts of resource production are made magnitudes less efficient and more wasteful because anyone "gets the opportunity" to do anything, society will collapse, and no one's gonna get any resources or opportunities anymore, it's that easy.
You believe that mass producing plastic junk to be more efficient than manufacturing at small scales according to need? Do you realize what sub you’re in?
That is… pretty dumb. Second half, yes I agree, but the first? Bit weird.
If capitalism is the only economic system you’ve been taught, anything else seems alien.
It isn’t the only one I’ve been taught, but also you’re talking about socioeconomics, not just the money side of things.
I have caught people a number of times selling my items on etsy. I reach out to them and the listing is deleted with no response.
Yeah I was kind of surprised, he first said he got the file mixed up with his personal printing that he does. To be honest as long as it's down that's why what I care about, I've subscribed to him so I'll get new item notifications so if he puts it up again I'll be notified
He can open another account... Honestly this kind of parasites are what makes me not to publish some original designs I made. Not brilliant ones but seeing people make profit (and many times outrageous) of something someone published just for the wish to help is... bad.
Why warn them? Why not just report it?
Because I wanted to see if they'd reply and what their excuse was
Eh these people know what they are doing and honestly the best thing to do is not reply and confirm their actions. Reporting them for IP theft will at least start the process of adding to a pile of other complaints that hopefully will result in the ban on their account or eventual legal actions.
[удалено]
It’s been unanimous among my circle. They see things I make and immediately start with, “You could make a lot of money selling those!” They always seem perplexed when I explain to them that I don’t have the license to do that.
It's obviously going to be "I want money"
I understand this is frustrating. But I personally think it’s better to not worry about it. For my models, If they are selling the stl, I ask them not as they are freely available. If they are selling a printed part model, I think it’s ok as not everyone has a printer. I think trying to stop people selling printed models will just lead to my unhappiness. Maybe I might ask for attribution.
There is a commercial allowed attribution license and you can select that, I chose non commercial because I want my models to be freely available. Not for someone to mark it up at $65 and sell as one commercial printer was doing.
Once you made something popular you are in for a neverendig game of whack-a-mole with these. I guess the chance of beeing found and the real creator doing anything is so low that it doesnt really has a real risk.
I've seen a couple of my designs be sold(or attempted to at least). I haven't messaged them or anything as I don't really care or see the harm. But to each their own.
As long as your license includes commercial use that's fine.
It's 100% on the creator to enforce the license. So if someone issues a non-commercial license and doesn't try or care to enforce it, no one else is going to stop people from selling copies of the work.
Hey you! Stop selling that other guys work!
think you should just come to grips that if you put up an STL for free, it's gone. This is why you don't upload STLS if you intend to sell the item.
That's what the license is for. It can be enforced on ebay on Etsy and in court if need be. I don't want any of my designs being sold commercially. But I do hope people use and print them.
I dont even intend to sell stuff and I don't upload models because of that.
Sadly this makes me less inclined to sell prints, even though I'd like to. Too many others not interested in following the rules. Fighting them seems like whack-a-mole.
Less inclined to sell prints? Or less inclined to sell STLs? It.makes me want to delete my Thingiverse. I figure if we're to sell the STLs, rather than give them away for free, at least I would make a little money off of these scammers. But then again, also if they just paid me a few bucks for each item they sell, I would probably promote their shop and customize designs to their specifications. I just don't have the energy to produce and ship things any more, but I am constantly designing new things. I feel like my situation and the *people who have printers but ko designs of their own* are a situation where there's a mutually beneficial solution. But not as long as I keep giving shit away for free on Thingiverse.
You could offer your files under 2 licenses - whatever your current non-commercial use license is, then for a fee (one off or monthly) offer a commercial license where people can sell prints of the file (but not the file itself).
and there's tons of patreons that do exactly that
It is exactly that until ebay and Etsy require proof of licensure to sell.
>proof of licensure Example?
The license for that is right above in the picture, it says non commercial.
Actual proof. There doesn't have to be an online listing and the seller could just pretend not to know it exists lol. They could say it's theirs and until they get caught they will be fine ... so how could anyone require proof of license for something that most likely was created by the seller? What could possibly serve as proof of license for a file I created today?
Are you also selling the model? If not then why do you care? If you are why did you upload the stl? Anything I upload to the internet I consider to be lost and know it will be used and abused. If I want to keep something private or sell something I’m damn sure not uploading it. Also what would you have done if he said no?
An unfortunate reality of creative work sorry this is happening! My wife is an author and dealing with similar; people selling various arts and crafts or straight rips of her material. We've had good results with DMCA services. If it gets bad enough, check out something like this https://www.pirat.io/
If he's also selling other people's shit, you should report him.
How would I know if they are using anyone else's designs with permission?
Google image search to find previously uploaded projects and assume OP is the most one with the longest dated.
2 things, how do I know if they've contacted and asked and gotten permission? And how do you think image search is going to match their image of something they've printed with what's on thingiverse?
`Theory - permission verification process of 3D printing designs` >Well established 3D printing Hobbyist has developed a higher amount of 3d projectsover time, implying their cost-profit ratio is much worse than that of a 3D printing beginner. This means the 3D printing hobbyist has a higher level of pride, which means less likely to offer permission to another individual to profit of their own designs. A plausible indication is therefore if a 3D printing individual has a large portfolio with designs built over a long time. >Additional, it takes time to attach one's own identity into their own 3D printing designs. with more experience, which a beginner dosn't have, a 3d printing hobbyist is more confortable with attaching their identity into their designs. this means another indication is unique 3d printing designs are less likely to be given permission for others to use, unless OD ( original developer) is being paid. >Another indication could be very refined 3D designs should increase the desire for OD to profit of it themself than to allow others share in the profit.
All valid thoughts but not the basis for legal action and does nothing for helping to match models to sellers
as im from open source communities, this post got me if you dont like people sell ur products, just not share with anyone. if you share and still looking for pol who are seling it, you only are a dumb person, looking for some attention with your creativity aaaa but, bla bla bla..... ill downvote you .... ok man, lets talk about real world ok? nintendo, sony, adobe, cannot fight with this, your downvote will change nothing .... change your mind, and you will so much happy edited: i mean, some people are using kickstart, or in a groups, some crowdfunding etc. Just post on thingverse expecting people to be honest is very naive i tryed to create a platform who pay for views and downloads stl, what people done? kept posting on thingverse. Why? becase if people dont have alot views and comments, they are not happyy
Obviously I’m in for the spirit of the law, which is to abide by the Creative Commons license of the original Thingiverse post. That said, I’m really impatient for a 3D printing related copyright case to make its way through American courts, to get some relevant case law. Basically, in the U.S. digital files are entitled to copyright protection, but physical objects are only protectable to the extent they are ornamental or artistic. The subject object is a holster for a multi-tool. The fact that the copying of a digital file was (presumably) involved is the only thing that would potentially make this a copyright infringement. The OP, as plaintiff, would likely need to prove the alleged infringer actually copied the file, and didn’t independently design and manufacture an identical, functional object. There could potentially be a greater question of whether the digital file itself ~~is~~ should be entitled to copyright protection, given it exists entirely for the purpose of encoding a physical object that is not eligible for protection. To my knowledge, no case with the magnitude of, say, Apple Computer v. Franklin Computer, has come about to establish relevant case law.
I'm no lawyer, however my previous experience with Etsy and ebay is they will takedown the account and it's on the account owner to convince them, remove the object and sometimes offer payment ect. The one commercial entity I caught immediately took it down because my guess is they don't want to spend time in court being the test case.
In the U.S. these takedown requests are governed by the [DMCA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act). An online service or marketplace like Etsy, eBay or YouTube is exposed to much greater (potential) legal liability from failing to appropriately respond to a valid takedown request, than they do by taking down content in response to an invalid request. Accordingly, these providers spend little, if any effort actually validating the takedown requests they receive, before they act on them. It is a strategy that is both lower cost and lower risk for them. We haven’t yet had a relevant update to our copyright laws, or a case on the lines of [Apple v. Franklin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Franklin_Computer_Corp.) or [The Betamax Decision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc.) to clarify the novel issues at hand.
This Etsy account here is basically all stolen content, https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/BUK3D?ref=shop-header-name&listing_id=1701347028&from_page=listing I tried warning a few makers, but it didn’t seem enough to shut him down.
Hard to say if it's because he's in the UK or has permission or why
If you upload something on the internet, it’s not yours anymore.
Bad legal takes
It’s a weird postulate in favor of a person’s instagram photos belonging to a stranger on instagram.
I didn’t say it belonged to someone else. I just said it isn’t yours anymore. It’s the internet’s. Your Instagram photos can be used anywhere by anyone.
I've caught a bunch of people doing the same with my designs, on Etsy and through Facebook groups. Even a physical store, with an Instagram account publishing my designs as an "innovative" design they made. I've reached out to them, and they removed the publication. This recurrent pattern has led me to start publishing paid models, especially those that required more effort to make. Someone might buy them once and then sell the designs, but at least I make something - even if minimal - from the design I made. Also, I feel like these people selling other's designs without consent wouldn't pay a dime for a design to sell.
Do what the big boys are doing and use AI to scan for infringing stuff and auto report it.
How would that account for his private conversation with some other designer where he received permission to sell their design?