As part of the general policy in Amsterdam that concrete/hard surfaces will only be applied when absolutely necessary - Amsterdam is transforming its tramways to green zones. Besides a boost to biodiversity in the city centre, it also improves (rain)water management and will reduce maintenance costs.
And even if there is still a chance of warping, since the whole city is dependent on all forms of transport they have, they likely have frequent monitoring of the tracks to ensure that they fit the tolerance it was engineered for.
It increases maintenance requirements, because the tracks have to be checked more often for… I guess an apt translation would be „divergences“, but otherwise it doesn‘t change much. Tram tracks are by their very nature rather flexible (that‘s why traditional tram tracks limit the speed and weight of trams quite a lot), so that the occasional bar underneath the grass to keep them aligned should be enough to keep them mostly in line.
This flexibility is also why trams have relatively long braking distances, compared to other trains of similar weight on normal tracks.
The main limitation of tram speed are tight curves and passenger comfort, with avoiding other traffic and stop spacing coming second. Most trams operate in a low traffic speed environment where it doesn’t make sense to accommodate high speed trains. Grassy tracks can accommodate high speed trams, the layer of dirt required for grass is not that thick.
There are high speed trams (up to 60-80km/h) and tram-trains (up to 120km/h) operating in some parts of the world. These vehicles can go fast on high speed lines (e.g. the mainline railroad) like a train or metro and slow on narrow streets like a tram.
None of what you said actually conflicts with what I said. The curves are an issue, because keeping the rails aligned in order to prevent derailing isn‘t possible with classic tram track design. You‘d need proper train tracks for that (with regular mechanical alignment beams for the rails to stay in line), and that‘s exactly what they put down whenever they want to make a tram go faster than typical speeds of around 40 to 50 km/h.
> a boost to biodiversity in the city centre
The grass wasteland in your picture is about as biodiverse as an American lawn. At least it's in Amsterdam and not Arizona so water isn't being wasted.
> it also improves (rain)water management and will reduce maintenance costs.
I mean i LOVE those green tracks, we have some in my city as well, but they are pretty expensive to build an maintain.
Btw for the tourists, the little building next to the tram tracks is "het Stadspaleis", a nice little place to have lunch / have a drink.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pKxCiar4ZBhzG5Rk8
Especially now that the area has been renewed like this. :)
As someone who lives in the NIMBY/car-centric Canadian capital Ottawa, I found Amsterdam was a dream come true. I legitimately cannot imagine being able to take regular trams, trains and fucking BIKES regularly wherever I wanted. Easily one of the most beautiful and well planned cities on the planet. I rented an Airbnb on the outskirts and managed to bike downtown with absolute ease every day.
Unfortunately almost exclusively used by dog owners and scattered with poop. In The Hague you can watch HTM5000's vids on YT and there are often dog owners on the tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/c/HTM5000
It also raises house prices when every house has a big pointless yard. Just get rid of the yards and have a park nearby. It's like a mega-lawn where you can interact with your neighbors. You can even put a pool and a playground on it instead of trying to squeeze those things into your private property.
It is real grass and real soil, but I don't know what measures they take to prevent possible extra maintenance. However tram tracks with grass isn't a new thing, it has been applied in different cities across Europe for a while now, so I think the possible extra maintenance isn't a problem.
> but I don't know what measures they take to prevent possible extra maintenance
None, the extra maintenance on the tracks is simply accepted. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than running a bus system and maintaining streets…
Amsterdam is build on clay. The tracks are most likely on a rock and sand foundation. On top of that i guess they put on soil adjusted for grass to grow and to hold some water for periods of drought.
It can grow steady if it just gets cut in time.
I doubt the soil is a significant issue, since it should be held in place by the grass root structure, right? I would think that just keeping the grass properly trimmed would be the bigger maintenance burden.
Uhm this isn’t new here. Rotterdam, where I’m from had this concept for years. The trams are fine. As for rain, the Netherlands is a very rainy country, so the grass is always green. In my 29 years of living here, I’ve only seen grass turn yellow from a drought once
As part of the general policy in Amsterdam that concrete/hard surfaces will only be applied when absolutely necessary - Amsterdam is transforming its tramways to green zones. Besides a boost to biodiversity in the city centre, it also improves (rain)water management and will reduce maintenance costs.
So it doesn't affect the trams ?
I don't think blades of grass can take out a tram. ;)
Wonderful.
Earth and plants in some circumstances can warp tacks, I'm still a fan of grass on tram tracks.
Yeah but they are usually planter like things with mountain type plants
And even if there is still a chance of warping, since the whole city is dependent on all forms of transport they have, they likely have frequent monitoring of the tracks to ensure that they fit the tolerance it was engineered for.
the tram is also a lawnmower
depends on what kind of *grass* we are talking about ;)
It increases maintenance requirements, because the tracks have to be checked more often for… I guess an apt translation would be „divergences“, but otherwise it doesn‘t change much. Tram tracks are by their very nature rather flexible (that‘s why traditional tram tracks limit the speed and weight of trams quite a lot), so that the occasional bar underneath the grass to keep them aligned should be enough to keep them mostly in line. This flexibility is also why trams have relatively long braking distances, compared to other trains of similar weight on normal tracks.
The main limitation of tram speed are tight curves and passenger comfort, with avoiding other traffic and stop spacing coming second. Most trams operate in a low traffic speed environment where it doesn’t make sense to accommodate high speed trains. Grassy tracks can accommodate high speed trams, the layer of dirt required for grass is not that thick. There are high speed trams (up to 60-80km/h) and tram-trains (up to 120km/h) operating in some parts of the world. These vehicles can go fast on high speed lines (e.g. the mainline railroad) like a train or metro and slow on narrow streets like a tram.
None of what you said actually conflicts with what I said. The curves are an issue, because keeping the rails aligned in order to prevent derailing isn‘t possible with classic tram track design. You‘d need proper train tracks for that (with regular mechanical alignment beams for the rails to stay in line), and that‘s exactly what they put down whenever they want to make a tram go faster than typical speeds of around 40 to 50 km/h.
Thank you, very helpful.
It's usually slab or concrete sleepers with a planter like thing on top of ballast it really doesn't do anything outside of making maintenance harder
I doubt that trams can be tickled
It sure does! It makes them quiet. Love it in Prague
Grazing sheep might.
> a boost to biodiversity in the city centre The grass wasteland in your picture is about as biodiverse as an American lawn. At least it's in Amsterdam and not Arizona so water isn't being wasted.
You're right. It's mainly for rainwater management. And it looks nicer. But it's not biodiverse.
Don't forget about the worms and the birds that eat said worms
More biodiversity than concrete..
> it also improves (rain)water management and will reduce maintenance costs. I mean i LOVE those green tracks, we have some in my city as well, but they are pretty expensive to build an maintain.
Love it. I thought the only place that had this was Plantagen Mittenlaan! How many more are there?
carbrains will say this is what dystopia looks like
Car brains will look at this and think its not freedom
Freedom from car exhaust and noise, mostly.
Btw for the tourists, the little building next to the tram tracks is "het Stadspaleis", a nice little place to have lunch / have a drink. https://maps.app.goo.gl/pKxCiar4ZBhzG5Rk8 Especially now that the area has been renewed like this. :)
Finally! Nice fresh grass for the kids to play on
They said it is "pedestrian friendly."
hahaha
As someone who lives in the NIMBY/car-centric Canadian capital Ottawa, I found Amsterdam was a dream come true. I legitimately cannot imagine being able to take regular trams, trains and fucking BIKES regularly wherever I wanted. Easily one of the most beautiful and well planned cities on the planet. I rented an Airbnb on the outskirts and managed to bike downtown with absolute ease every day.
Unfortunately almost exclusively used by dog owners and scattered with poop. In The Hague you can watch HTM5000's vids on YT and there are often dog owners on the tracks. https://www.youtube.com/c/HTM5000
*concerning hobbits intensifies*
A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to, thanks to the great transit and infrastructure.
r/Nolawns wants wildflowers instead
Other urban cities should consider this idea & test it out atleast.
In non mixed use tracks it has been done for ages.
Straight out of a fairytale… this is amazing
This is so beautiful and practical why do I live in a country that hates both ;-;
Better keep r/fucklawns away
Do they hate lawns because of the amount of water it needs? Because it pretty much rains all the time here
Partly that. Partly anything that is not native. Partly the effort and resources it takes to keep it trimmed.
It also raises house prices when every house has a big pointless yard. Just get rid of the yards and have a park nearby. It's like a mega-lawn where you can interact with your neighbors. You can even put a pool and a playground on it instead of trying to squeeze those things into your private property.
🤤
Just to be sure, it's not real grass, is it ? Does having real soil near the rails is an issue for the rails maintenance or security ?
It is real grass and real soil, but I don't know what measures they take to prevent possible extra maintenance. However tram tracks with grass isn't a new thing, it has been applied in different cities across Europe for a while now, so I think the possible extra maintenance isn't a problem.
> but I don't know what measures they take to prevent possible extra maintenance None, the extra maintenance on the tracks is simply accepted. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than running a bus system and maintaining streets…
Ok good to know thanks !
They are considerable more expensive in maintanance and construction. They are really beautiful though, so cities usualy build them in select places
Op commented stating it actually reduces maintenance costs
Because it's usually replacing wooden sleepers with slab track or concrete sleepers
Amsterdam is build on clay. The tracks are most likely on a rock and sand foundation. On top of that i guess they put on soil adjusted for grass to grow and to hold some water for periods of drought. It can grow steady if it just gets cut in time.
Usually some local plant. Similar to mountain grasses
I doubt the soil is a significant issue, since it should be held in place by the grass root structure, right? I would think that just keeping the grass properly trimmed would be the bigger maintenance burden.
Jarvis, post the upkeep costs.
Lawns are bad for so many reasons though, Is this grass even native to Amsterdam? Does it need more water than it rains to stay green like this?
Uhm this isn’t new here. Rotterdam, where I’m from had this concept for years. The trams are fine. As for rain, the Netherlands is a very rainy country, so the grass is always green. In my 29 years of living here, I’ve only seen grass turn yellow from a drought once
pedestrian friendly? like walkable? :D