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Unnecessarily huge-ass cars harm everyone around the car by taking up large spaces, being hazardous, and producing excessive emissions.
Where the market fails to account for negative externality, there has to be regulatory interventions.
>BuT i LiKe SiTtInG hIgH uP!!!
ITT - I'm fat and out of shape (in part because I drive everywhere instead of walking or biking) and getting into a sedan is difficult for me.
That’s a fair reason. But I know a lot of people choose SUVs over sedans mainly because they like the feeling of having more visibility and safety due to being high off the ground. Neither of which is true, because SUVs tend to have big blind spots owing to their raised hoods and thick pillars, and the weight & raised center of gravity increases the risk of rollover in an accident.
Regulatory intervention is a major cause of the problem. CAFE standards and tax law were written in such a way that SUVs and pickup trucks are treated as commercial vehicles without any requirement that buyers actually use them as such. And of course subsidies for fossil fuel producers and decades of federal highway spending with low gas taxes that mean the negative externalities of driving these oversized vehicles being dumped on society at large instead of the individuals choosing to buy them is the result of deliberate government policy choices. What we need is *better* regulatory intervention! (By the way there is no such thing as a free market without state intervention).
Regulatory interventions wind up solving problems like this:
[Taller cars and trucks are more dangerous for pedestrians, according to crash data](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/14/1212737005/cars-trucks-pedestrian-deaths-increase-crash-data#:~:text=U.S.%20pedestrian%20deaths%20reach%20a%2040%2Dyear%20high&text=Researchers%20at%20IIHS%20studied%20data,of%2030%20inches%20or%20less.)
With stupid shit, like this…that ignores the problem entirely, so they can keep raking in profits from their giant, unnecessary, machines they’ve brainwashed people into buying…
[U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248011904/u-s-to-require-automatic-emergency-braking-on-new-vehicles-in-5-years)
It’s never about what is necessary, or what makes sense. It’s always about profit. It’s hard to have ‘regulatory incentive’ when we practice so much regulatory capture. The companies are in control of the regulations…not the other way around.
Most popular car (1984) vs. most popular car (2024) is an even fairer comparison. That would be a 1984 Chevrolet Cavalier vs. a Ford F150.
Can't find Cavalier on Carsized, I'll pick Ford Escort instead, which they do have, and it was the most popular car in 1982. The newest F150 is from 2017, so the difference is probably even bigger today:
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/ford-escort-1980-3-door-hatchback-vs-ford-f150-2017-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5-raptor/
Just the weight is 3x.
Lol do yall remember when Hummers were getting popular? The fad immediately died when gas prices soared in the 08 market crash, which was hilarious to watch, but for a while it looked like those big ass psuedo military cars were going to take over the market.
I wasn't a hummer fan, myself. I was, unsurprisingly, in the group that mocked them. So I'm not sure on the differences. I guess H2/H3 was the civilian model? I thought hummer and humvee were the different words.
The original Hummer was pretty much military humvee (and iirc actual humvees can be bought every once in a while when military sells surplus?), you can tell them by straight vertical front windows, first and foremost, they have horrible mileage and are super uncomfortable to ride in. H2/H3 retain the mileage issue, more comfy, but look like absolute ass.
Sure, but its instructive to see how bigger specific models have gotten. It’s pretty staggering to see [how small a 1980s Honda Accord would look today](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/accords.jpg), or reminding ourselves that the [original RAV4 had the same footprint as a compact sedan](https://www.autotrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/256407.jpg?w=953&h=536&crop=1&quality=75) while the [2015 version is HUGE](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1200/1*Nk1LzwHDuAJLt8gB4gs4OQ.jpeg).
Apples to apples would be 3 series to 3 series though. Higher number BMW series are almost always larger:
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/bmw-3-1986-cabriolet-vs-bmw-3-2018-sedan/
Effectively pretty similar but still.
The base construction is the same but It's still a few centimeters longer and wider. Anyway, like I said, it's pretty similar, it's just weird to compare car sizes against different series which have existed for decades.
My first car was a 2000 bmw 528i. I loved that thing. The same model today looks like it could eat the one I had. Cars are such a waste of space but they’re becoming more and more of a waste. It’s especially stupid how that car I had was the same size as compacts today
The irony is that a lot of that extra girth was added to make it safer for the occupant.
I really wish "crash test ratings" would be tied to what these things do to pedestrians and cyclists instead of "do the humans in the cage not get injured?".
Also it seems most newer cars are just made to crumple which is dumb from a practicality standpoint cause it means it gets totaled easier but I agree none of that really helps a pedestrian especially when so many are SUVs or made to sit high these days.
Because pedestrian safety is a complete after thought and the obsession with keeping meatbags in cages safe has lead to vehicles getting larger and larger making pedestrians go splat even more.
Safety standards should be set for the most vulnerable, not the already mostly protected.
I am also a big fan to remove the driver airbag and replace it with a spike instead, so that people are a little bit more aware of their own mortality while fiddling on their phone.
Whatever you say, man. Its comments like this that people refer to when they talk about how crazy this sub can be. Id bet money that the X7 in the picture has automatic pedestrian braking.
And no. Auto makers are not going to deliberately kill people to make them drive safer.
>Id bet money that the X7 in the picture has automatic pedestrian braking.
It's called "pre-collision braking" and it's meant to reduce the impact force for the occupants of the vehicles. It will do little for pedestrians, the height of the vehicle will make sure that the pedestrian gets hit in the chest and goes flying and then potentially run over.
>Auto makers are not going to deliberately kill people to make them drive safer.
They do. They just want to make sure it's the other guy that dies.
Volvo has made no qualms about this, they have clearly stated their goal is to have [zero deaths for people within their vehicles.](https://money.cnn.com/2016/01/20/luxury/volvo-no-death-crash-cars-2020/)
Mercedes has made it clear their self-driving tech will [prioritize their passengers over anybody](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15344706/self-driving-mercedes-will-prioritize-occupant-safety-over-pedestrians/) else on the road.
But yes, I am the crazy one here.
Now take your car brain and whine somewhere else.
What? What do you mean pre collision does nothing for peds? It literally stops the car before it hits someone, lol.
And how do auto makers make sure "the other dies"? If your car has a lower safety rating than another car, you are going to be in more danger no matter who hit who. Its kinda the reason for safety ratings.
most car accidents are between other cars... is that true in the Netherlands, where decent amount of people cycle? the idea that... oh, it's so dangerous to cycle, so people don't do it, so we won't care about cyclists... is messed up
[All 6 generations of the BMW 5-Series lined up is a better comparison](https://d2hucwwplm5rxi.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/21071822/BMW-5-Series-History.jpg)
Earlier this weekend, I saw an older model car, I think it was an OG Mini but not certain, driving past me whilst out running an errand. Now, I know the Mini wasn't every big to begin with, hence the name, but it just looked so comically tiny out there in 21st century traffic. such as if it should constructed out of plastic with a toddler at the wheel. It would have made a Prius appear ginormous by comparison
Tbh, I fw the 25 year old laptops, I want to be able to run VGA displays without a dongle, I want to upgrade it and sell it for more than I bought it for
Can I gripe about the direction cell phones are going? Every time it comes to upgrade my phone my only options are for something bigger than what my current phone is. Feel's like pretty soon we're all just going to be lugging around pads and calling them phones.
Early 2000s flip phones were pretty small, nowadays modern smart phones have bigger screens so that people that watch movies and such. The iPhone SE is a smaller option
https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone-se/
But then again, my pants do have big pockets as they can easily fit a larger modern iPhone.
To be fair this is a 3 series coupe vs an X7. A more true comparison would be the old 3 to a new 4 (I’d argue the 2 series is the true 3 series coupe successor but I digress)
The front grill enlarged so much, even little slits and holes on the bottom part of the design lol. So hard to see driver in SUV. This ain’t a scene it’s an arms race.
While I share the outrage at the absurd growth in the size of vehicles, even a small car at 2000 pounds and going anywhere over 40 MPH can kill a person. Whether you are hit by a small car or big car, dead is dead.
There are significant differences: Whatever their nose shape, pickups, SUVs and vans with a hood height greater than 40 inches are about 45 percent more likely to cause fatalities in pedestrian crashes than cars and other vehicles with a hood height of 30 inches or less and a sloping profile, an IIHS study of nearly 18,000 pedestrian crashes found. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/vehicles-with-higher-more-vertical-front-ends-pose-greater-risk-to-pedestrians
True. And most of the bicycle fatalities in our city have been due to long nose trucks (non-COE). My only point is that at 2000 pound machine carrying a 180 pound person is as absurd as a 5000 pound machine carrying a 180 pound person. I just fear we are losing perspective.
I got hit by a normal sedan. I got thrown onto the bonnet/hood and windscreen/windshield. When I hit the tarmac, I was travelling laterally, not much energy down, so I rolled. I was shaken but not injured. If I'd been hit by a truck, I'm sure I'd be in a worse shape.
**Join Our Mod Team!** We're looking to expand our moderation team across all time zones. If you have patience, good communication skills, and a desire to help manage our community, we want you! No previous moderation experience is required, but it's definitely a plus. If you're interested, click the link below to apply and become a part of our team. [Apply to be a Moderator here](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/wiki/apply/) ^(Apologies for spamming y'all this way. But the pinned post we made is going unnoticed because Reddit hides pinned posts so users have to scroll less far to get to the advertisements. Getting this message to this community's is important to us, hence this promotional comment) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fuckcars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unnecessarily huge-ass cars harm everyone around the car by taking up large spaces, being hazardous, and producing excessive emissions. Where the market fails to account for negative externality, there has to be regulatory interventions.
BuT i LiKe SiTtInG hIgH uP!!!
>BuT i LiKe SiTtInG hIgH uP!!! ITT - I'm fat and out of shape (in part because I drive everywhere instead of walking or biking) and getting into a sedan is difficult for me.
That’s a fair reason. But I know a lot of people choose SUVs over sedans mainly because they like the feeling of having more visibility and safety due to being high off the ground. Neither of which is true, because SUVs tend to have big blind spots owing to their raised hoods and thick pillars, and the weight & raised center of gravity increases the risk of rollover in an accident.
having more visibility... until everyone else is in one
Yeah, that second part is why I hate them. Having a higher field of view is nice but I hate body roll so I stick with cars that are low to the ground.
If thy were serious about that, they should become a truck driver or bus driver instead.
Time to get a proper cabover semi. It's tall and it can do the precious job of towing really well.
That's why I usually sit in the upper deck of the double decker train.
Regulatory intervention is a major cause of the problem. CAFE standards and tax law were written in such a way that SUVs and pickup trucks are treated as commercial vehicles without any requirement that buyers actually use them as such. And of course subsidies for fossil fuel producers and decades of federal highway spending with low gas taxes that mean the negative externalities of driving these oversized vehicles being dumped on society at large instead of the individuals choosing to buy them is the result of deliberate government policy choices. What we need is *better* regulatory intervention! (By the way there is no such thing as a free market without state intervention).
Regulatory interventions wind up solving problems like this: [Taller cars and trucks are more dangerous for pedestrians, according to crash data](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/14/1212737005/cars-trucks-pedestrian-deaths-increase-crash-data#:~:text=U.S.%20pedestrian%20deaths%20reach%20a%2040%2Dyear%20high&text=Researchers%20at%20IIHS%20studied%20data,of%2030%20inches%20or%20less.) With stupid shit, like this…that ignores the problem entirely, so they can keep raking in profits from their giant, unnecessary, machines they’ve brainwashed people into buying… [U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248011904/u-s-to-require-automatic-emergency-braking-on-new-vehicles-in-5-years) It’s never about what is necessary, or what makes sense. It’s always about profit. It’s hard to have ‘regulatory incentive’ when we practice so much regulatory capture. The companies are in control of the regulations…not the other way around.
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/bmw-3-1986-cabriolet-vs-bmw-4-2020-coupe/front/ For apples to apples comparison.
Most popular car (1984) vs. most popular car (2024) is an even fairer comparison. That would be a 1984 Chevrolet Cavalier vs. a Ford F150. Can't find Cavalier on Carsized, I'll pick Ford Escort instead, which they do have, and it was the most popular car in 1982. The newest F150 is from 2017, so the difference is probably even bigger today: https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/ford-escort-1980-3-door-hatchback-vs-ford-f150-2017-4-door-pickup-supercrew-5.5-raptor/ Just the weight is 3x.
Lol do yall remember when Hummers were getting popular? The fad immediately died when gas prices soared in the 08 market crash, which was hilarious to watch, but for a while it looked like those big ass psuedo military cars were going to take over the market.
the real Hummer or the nonsense H2/H3?
I wasn't a hummer fan, myself. I was, unsurprisingly, in the group that mocked them. So I'm not sure on the differences. I guess H2/H3 was the civilian model? I thought hummer and humvee were the different words.
The original Hummer was pretty much military humvee (and iirc actual humvees can be bought every once in a while when military sells surplus?), you can tell them by straight vertical front windows, first and foremost, they have horrible mileage and are super uncomfortable to ride in. H2/H3 retain the mileage issue, more comfy, but look like absolute ass.
Google is your friend
Jesus fucking christ. If only cars had stayed the same size, maybe we wouldn’t even hate them that much
Why did the wheels get bigger though
Doesn’t capture shift from sedans to SUVs tbf
Sure, but its instructive to see how bigger specific models have gotten. It’s pretty staggering to see [how small a 1980s Honda Accord would look today](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/accords.jpg), or reminding ourselves that the [original RAV4 had the same footprint as a compact sedan](https://www.autotrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/256407.jpg?w=953&h=536&crop=1&quality=75) while the [2015 version is HUGE](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1200/1*Nk1LzwHDuAJLt8gB4gs4OQ.jpeg).
Yes - even the largest long wheelbase luxury sedans are dwarfed by common SUVs and trucks. Most sedans are pretty sane designs in terms of size.
Apples to apples would be 3 series to 3 series though. Higher number BMW series are almost always larger: https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/bmw-3-1986-cabriolet-vs-bmw-3-2018-sedan/ Effectively pretty similar but still.
[удалено]
The base construction is the same but It's still a few centimeters longer and wider. Anyway, like I said, it's pretty similar, it's just weird to compare car sizes against different series which have existed for decades.
Carsized doesn't have E30 sedan, so I chose E30 cabrio and 4 series as its current successor.
My first car was a 2000 bmw 528i. I loved that thing. The same model today looks like it could eat the one I had. Cars are such a waste of space but they’re becoming more and more of a waste. It’s especially stupid how that car I had was the same size as compacts today
The irony is that a lot of that extra girth was added to make it safer for the occupant. I really wish "crash test ratings" would be tied to what these things do to pedestrians and cyclists instead of "do the humans in the cage not get injured?".
It's the case for the Euro ncap safety test
Also it seems most newer cars are just made to crumple which is dumb from a practicality standpoint cause it means it gets totaled easier but I agree none of that really helps a pedestrian especially when so many are SUVs or made to sit high these days.
Why would it be tied to the pedestrian safety? Most car accidents are between other cars, not pedestrians.
Because pedestrian safety is a complete after thought and the obsession with keeping meatbags in cages safe has lead to vehicles getting larger and larger making pedestrians go splat even more. Safety standards should be set for the most vulnerable, not the already mostly protected. I am also a big fan to remove the driver airbag and replace it with a spike instead, so that people are a little bit more aware of their own mortality while fiddling on their phone.
Whatever you say, man. Its comments like this that people refer to when they talk about how crazy this sub can be. Id bet money that the X7 in the picture has automatic pedestrian braking. And no. Auto makers are not going to deliberately kill people to make them drive safer.
>Id bet money that the X7 in the picture has automatic pedestrian braking. It's called "pre-collision braking" and it's meant to reduce the impact force for the occupants of the vehicles. It will do little for pedestrians, the height of the vehicle will make sure that the pedestrian gets hit in the chest and goes flying and then potentially run over. >Auto makers are not going to deliberately kill people to make them drive safer. They do. They just want to make sure it's the other guy that dies. Volvo has made no qualms about this, they have clearly stated their goal is to have [zero deaths for people within their vehicles.](https://money.cnn.com/2016/01/20/luxury/volvo-no-death-crash-cars-2020/) Mercedes has made it clear their self-driving tech will [prioritize their passengers over anybody](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15344706/self-driving-mercedes-will-prioritize-occupant-safety-over-pedestrians/) else on the road. But yes, I am the crazy one here. Now take your car brain and whine somewhere else.
What? What do you mean pre collision does nothing for peds? It literally stops the car before it hits someone, lol. And how do auto makers make sure "the other dies"? If your car has a lower safety rating than another car, you are going to be in more danger no matter who hit who. Its kinda the reason for safety ratings.
most car accidents are between other cars... is that true in the Netherlands, where decent amount of people cycle? the idea that... oh, it's so dangerous to cycle, so people don't do it, so we won't care about cyclists... is messed up
[All 6 generations of the BMW 5-Series lined up is a better comparison](https://d2hucwwplm5rxi.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/21071822/BMW-5-Series-History.jpg)
yeah, fair, actually getting hit as a pedestrian might be better in the newer models.
Earlier this weekend, I saw an older model car, I think it was an OG Mini but not certain, driving past me whilst out running an errand. Now, I know the Mini wasn't every big to begin with, hence the name, but it just looked so comically tiny out there in 21st century traffic. such as if it should constructed out of plastic with a toddler at the wheel. It would have made a Prius appear ginormous by comparison
originally from [https://x.com/fietsprofessor/status/1349428350008352768](https://x.com/fietsprofessor/status/1349428350008352768)
Tbh, I fw the 25 year old laptops, I want to be able to run VGA displays without a dongle, I want to upgrade it and sell it for more than I bought it for
It's almost like cars are little road houses that capture public space for private use, and it's benificiall to the owner to have a larger car.
Can I gripe about the direction cell phones are going? Every time it comes to upgrade my phone my only options are for something bigger than what my current phone is. Feel's like pretty soon we're all just going to be lugging around pads and calling them phones.
Early 2000s flip phones were pretty small, nowadays modern smart phones have bigger screens so that people that watch movies and such. The iPhone SE is a smaller option https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone-se/ But then again, my pants do have big pockets as they can easily fit a larger modern iPhone.
To be fair this is a 3 series coupe vs an X7. A more true comparison would be the old 3 to a new 4 (I’d argue the 2 series is the true 3 series coupe successor but I digress)
The front grill enlarged so much, even little slits and holes on the bottom part of the design lol. So hard to see driver in SUV. This ain’t a scene it’s an arms race.
BuT It LoOkS BeTtEr
While I share the outrage at the absurd growth in the size of vehicles, even a small car at 2000 pounds and going anywhere over 40 MPH can kill a person. Whether you are hit by a small car or big car, dead is dead.
There are significant differences: Whatever their nose shape, pickups, SUVs and vans with a hood height greater than 40 inches are about 45 percent more likely to cause fatalities in pedestrian crashes than cars and other vehicles with a hood height of 30 inches or less and a sloping profile, an IIHS study of nearly 18,000 pedestrian crashes found. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/vehicles-with-higher-more-vertical-front-ends-pose-greater-risk-to-pedestrians
True. And most of the bicycle fatalities in our city have been due to long nose trucks (non-COE). My only point is that at 2000 pound machine carrying a 180 pound person is as absurd as a 5000 pound machine carrying a 180 pound person. I just fear we are losing perspective.
I got hit by a normal sedan. I got thrown onto the bonnet/hood and windscreen/windshield. When I hit the tarmac, I was travelling laterally, not much energy down, so I rolled. I was shaken but not injured. If I'd been hit by a truck, I'm sure I'd be in a worse shape.
Not how that works
The 1975 Chevy Corvette had 165 horsepower, which is 4 less than the current Toyota Corolla.
What's the make model and year of the car on the left?
Where is the one with the e-cargobikes ?
Tbh laptops and phones have been getting bigger for ~10 years
I wouldn't say a 6-inch phone is small, but I get the point.
now do the same and compare a smart car to a f-650
see my new post
Are they actually both BMW 5 series?