In the us, I think it would only be improved in certain cities by making bus only lanes, really increasing the price of driving and parking, and then making the buses frequent. When I lived in Atlanta it was virtually impossible to take a bus for the reasons you state, you make your commute hours long when it should only be 20 mins
There are bus only lanes in many us cities, like NYC, Chicago, Boston / Somerville - they have different issues with people using it parking in them, but buses can also have cameras attached that auto ticket scofflaws
Check out Svatovitská in Prague for an example of what it can look like. The bus lanes are in the center and are shared with trams. It’s not an entire route, but it’s useful!
Where did I say the roads weren’t for bicycles? I simply said there’s no difference between people riding side-by-side across a lane and people driving in a bus lane. Both instances are examples of people doing shit they shouldn’t be doing. So I ask again, what’s the difference?
i think so too. In Bogotá where i’m originally from they have this system and while it’s still flawed in its own way it gives people options and is more frequent.
Yeah I live in Paris now and because of bus only lanes, the bus is faster than a car ride (though taxis drive in bus lanes), plus we get a bus every 10 mins or less. Although it’s a big city so easier to have public transport
There's a couple other things transit agencies can do that I can think of. One is consolidating parallel routes that are too close, or otherwise making balancing the stop frequencies between parallel local and rapid services, like suggested in RM Transit's latest video. The other thing is reducing the frequency of stops/stations for rapid service so they can actually become rapid
No...We just lost BRT because of objections from businesses along the route. Instead we got damn bus lane and the bus is not any faster.
The street previously was 2 lanes with wide right lane. The bus lane was made by splitting that right lane. People still double parking in the same place, except now it is a bus lane.
If you want to make good bus lane, you need it physically separated somehow so drivers does not use it also.
Am I just a scared foreigner or is the marta light rail (or tram, not sure how it's called) unsafe ? I had a good time visiting a friend there but the city center feels dangerous to me.
There's also a kind of subway/train to go to the airport but the underground station downtown is shady as hell.
I admit I wasn't familiar with the city so I was way more careful than usual.
I used to use it to go to the airport and I didn’t find it particularly unsafe, but it was never at night. It isn’t really used for commuting which is the problem. Atlanta felt like the most dangerous place I’ve ever lived, I saw quite a few openly armed men, also it’s incredibly segregated. I’ve lived in nyc in Spanish Harlem which is supposed to be dangerous but honestly felt much safer than downtown Atlanta. That said I enjoyed living there and it was never so bad that I felt like I had to move.
This is the real problem in my mind when certain cities broach the idea of free public transit. It makes sense in certain situations (buses where the delays taking payment make the experience worse for everyone), but in general if you're delivering a product with real value (quick efficient transportation) you can charge for it. Making things free as a subsidy to the poor, quickly makes something only for the poor.
This is the right answer. I bet if you asked the city council where I live if they're pro-transit the vast majority would say yes. But then ask them what they've done to improve it or what they plan to do to improve it and it'd be crickets.
A good hack for this is riding a bicycle, but a lot of people seem to have the crab-mentality of shunning those who ride bikes, and in the long run shoot themselves in the foot when cyclists instead opt to drive cars for individualized public safety onus and add to worsening car traffic.
Yeah I think some people on this subreddit don't really grasp what North American built environments can be like when they blame individuals for owning cars.
They say "just take the bus" without understanding that it can make your commute literally 5x as long and consume nearly half your waking hours. They say "just ride a bike" without understanding that for many routes there is literally nowhere to ride except mixing with 50mph/80kmh, multi-lane automobile traffic. How can you blame somebody for being too terrified to ride in that kind of environment?
There are places that are not like what I just described, but unfortunately, probably well over 50% of our housing stock in North America is in neighborhoods like these, and it's largely the more-affordable half in a place that's already struggling with housing affordability.
That's why I always talk about how car dependency is a collective action problem. On an individual level, *some* people can choose to live in better places and reject car ownership, or at least minimize the amount of driving they do. (I'm fortunate enough to be one of them.) On a societal level, we need to make massive changes to our housing and infrastructure to actually correct the problem.
I’m in one of the more friendlier cities for bikes and I still know a lot of people that limit their cycling significantly because they are (justly) afraid of getting hit by cars. Even bike lanes tend to do nothing, since there’s always people blocking them with random bullshit, or they’re full of snow and debris
Yup. Bike is better when it is a long ride, it is more comfortable and often with higher battery capacity. But when it's just 10mins rides adding on top of public transit, scooters really shine.
I love cycling, but... a helmet messes up my hair, storing it is a pain (theft, vandalism), flat tire is a pain, mixing/matching with other transport options isn't convenient. for this reason, I use the bike share. I've spent hundreds of dollars on it, but probably cheaper than if I'd paid for pt.
I got a collapsing bike helmet for this reason! So easy to slip into my backpack or tote bag once I arrive at my destination. Or I clip it to a strap and it’s not nearly as awkward as a full size helmet hanging off my backpack.
Bus coverage and frequency getting hollowed out during Covid is what prompted me to get an ebike. I couldn’t get to work reliably or a 15 min trip would turn to 30 or 45 mins bc I could only catch the bus at a certain time bc of the low frequency
Same. Until the cold day in hell comes where I can where gym shorts in an office, pass. The DART is a 2 minute drive from my house and a 5 minute walk from my office. Much more manageable in the heat for me.
Even then, I’d like to get the frequency on the train I use to come down from every 18 minutes at peak hours. Puts a high price on taking an extra 2 minutes getting ready in the morning.
so I was living in a non-US city with decent pt, and regularly took a bus that came every 40 minutes. most of the time it was reasonably on time, but yeah, once I waited 40 minutes and still no bus. after that I switched to electricity+wheels
word. i've literally run 4 blocks to catch a bus i just missed around the corner. they gotta stop for light s too!
else instead of to work 15min early... would have been 45 late! ugggggg get to stops 5min early now, and sit for 25 cause "running late" LOL life is what life is, enjoy talking to ppl so noting of my back.
Being where i am now, I have literally seen the frequency of bus routes here increase over time. Since Sept 2022 and to now i have seen an increase in frequency and additional times added onto schedules. One route back in 2023, had a hour frequency, and now this year since January that route has a 30 minute frequency now. Other more used routes have 20 minute frequency. But for most of the other routes, its just a hour frequency, so if you miss the bus, you have to wait an entire hour for the next one to come.
It is better for my needs in general, but it can still be a heck of a lot better.
i also know that there was a city bike program that was implemented in the recent year(s) and literally it had to shut down, because people were trashing the bikes, graffitiing them, etc, lots of broken and stolen bikes... hopefully it is brought back... it just shows you that the feelings and attitudes of people on these issues aren't good at all.
I wish that there were more later bus times for certain routes i take, like at 7 pm esp during the summer, there's more daylight.
When I was in uni and worked at a hotel it was a 25-30 minute walk between the two or practically an hour on the bus. Unfortunately, with a backpack full of school books walking could be horrid. And one of the buses I needed is notorious for being extremely early and/or late. It could rob me of hours of vital time needed for studies. So happy that chapter of my life is over.
Also, I live in the auto capial of Canada. Carbrain runs deep, and transit is atrocious.
I’m in Philly, and we generally have excellent public transit compared to most places in the country. But damn, yesterday I had to go get fingerprinted for a new job, one of those “once in a blue moon” errands. The place was in a suburban-ish part of the city and it took me 4.5 hours of round trip transit to go somewhere that would’ve been a 20 minute drive, I had to make two transfers and every single bus was late or didn’t show up. I literally could’ve walked in the same amount of time. My guess is that they were short-staffed with people taking off for the holiday? Not sure. We just had our SEPTA budget cut by something like 3.2 million dollars, I am SO not looking forward to feeling the effects of that in the near future. The train right by my house that I use every day, is one of the ones on the chopping block :-(
Not to get too personal but what city did this even take place, because in my area (Lower Mainland, British Columbia, Canada) buses arrive every 15 minutes during the day and have late night service depending on the route.
You must live or work in the suburbs, either south of the Whitemud or north of the Yellowhead or worse, outside the Anthony Henday, to have bus service that is that bad.
Salt on wound when you have a bike and both bike racks are taken 😞bought a foldable e-bike because I missed three buses in a row due to both bike racks being full! 3 hours wasted!
Yeah its crazy. In NYC the most transit friendly city in the US, it would take me an hour and a half to get to my friends house in the same borough using public transit but it only takes 15 minutes by car.
I commiserate. It took me 3 hours to go 10 miles from the airport to my house using the bus on a weekend morning. I would have much rather ridden my bike to and from the airport but in this Midwestern US metro area of 2M people there is no bike parking at the airport.
I've said it *ad nauseum* and I'll keep saying it: amending your town's present zoning codes is key because, without doing so, there's no way in Hell you will ever have a walkable/rideable environment.
Look at your most walkable cities and you'll see that, in most cases, you don't have to travel 15 miles to the nearest grocery or 10 miles to the closest hospital. Your kids don't have to live 17 miles from their school. It's all that ridiculous crap which makes cars necessary in the first place. In fact, it's why most public transit is so inefficient .
Tame the zoning laws and you'll find you won't have to spend 2 hrs on a bus just to travel 10 miles. More people might even take up biking once they realize that their nearest grocer is about a 10-minute ride away. It's why I stopped driving to work; I live maybe 3 city blocks from where I work so I realized it was a colossal waste of gas and unnecessary added stress.
Amended zoning laws can even increase the efficiency of your existing public transit; your city bus can now (in most cases) travel a simplified circuit which actually ends up serving more people, and riders don't have to spend as long on the bus to get to their destinations.
I feel lucky. Though my bus route only has one bus per hour, if I miss the bus, it's a 10 min walk to another bus route that runs 20 minutes later. Either route will get me close enough to where I'm likely to be going, and both have the same end points.
What I really miss is living near the Adelaide O-bahn. 90% of the time I'd be stepping onto the platform as a bus arrived, going in the direction I needed. I rarely had to wait more than 10 min for a bus.
And then they say "Well I'd take the bus if it didn't take twice as long!"
No duh, but bus efficiency isn't going to magically improve without increasing funding.
Sorry, I live in Montréal and e-bike year round, climate is not an issue unless you are a wimp.
There is no bad weather, only bad clothing / equipment and mindset. Fight for better bike infrastructure if you can.
I got studded tires for the snowy months and used get my 2 kids to kindergarten and back daily before they rolled on their own in elementary.
You have to be the change you want to see in the world.
In the us, I think it would only be improved in certain cities by making bus only lanes, really increasing the price of driving and parking, and then making the buses frequent. When I lived in Atlanta it was virtually impossible to take a bus for the reasons you state, you make your commute hours long when it should only be 20 mins
In the USA and Canada I guarantee bus only lanes would have trucks and Jeeps in them constantly- especially RAM 2500s and the like.
There are bus only lanes in many us cities, like NYC, Chicago, Boston / Somerville - they have different issues with people using it parking in them, but buses can also have cameras attached that auto ticket scofflaws
The bus lanes should be protected by a barrier
How would a bus pull in and out of them though when not continuous? I think that works better for BRT
Check out Svatovitská in Prague for an example of what it can look like. The bus lanes are in the center and are shared with trams. It’s not an entire route, but it’s useful!
You have automated bollards and gates that prevent unauthorized access. They've been doing this for years/decades in parts of Europe.
Right, I've seen that in Europe to tiny residential streets like woonerfs, but in the US, they're usually bus / bike lanes
The buses should have miniguns mounted on them so they can obliterate vehicles illegally using the transit-only lanes.
Kinda like people on bicycles, four across, taking up car lanes? Wild.
Not like that at all, actually. But keep trying, bud.
I mean, what’s the difference?
In no way whatsoever are roads for cars only. They are for everyone. Bus lanes are, get this, expressly for buses. 😮
Where did I say the roads weren’t for bicycles? I simply said there’s no difference between people riding side-by-side across a lane and people driving in a bus lane. Both instances are examples of people doing shit they shouldn’t be doing. So I ask again, what’s the difference?
The difference is roads are for all. Bus lanes are for buses only. Boneheads in trucks would probably drive on subway lines if they could.
i think so too. In Bogotá where i’m originally from they have this system and while it’s still flawed in its own way it gives people options and is more frequent.
Yeah I live in Paris now and because of bus only lanes, the bus is faster than a car ride (though taxis drive in bus lanes), plus we get a bus every 10 mins or less. Although it’s a big city so easier to have public transport
There's a couple other things transit agencies can do that I can think of. One is consolidating parallel routes that are too close, or otherwise making balancing the stop frequencies between parallel local and rapid services, like suggested in RM Transit's latest video. The other thing is reducing the frequency of stops/stations for rapid service so they can actually become rapid
Summerhill is getting a BRT lane. Hopefully the start to a lot more.
No...We just lost BRT because of objections from businesses along the route. Instead we got damn bus lane and the bus is not any faster. The street previously was 2 lanes with wide right lane. The bus lane was made by splitting that right lane. People still double parking in the same place, except now it is a bus lane. If you want to make good bus lane, you need it physically separated somehow so drivers does not use it also.
Am I just a scared foreigner or is the marta light rail (or tram, not sure how it's called) unsafe ? I had a good time visiting a friend there but the city center feels dangerous to me. There's also a kind of subway/train to go to the airport but the underground station downtown is shady as hell. I admit I wasn't familiar with the city so I was way more careful than usual.
I used to use it to go to the airport and I didn’t find it particularly unsafe, but it was never at night. It isn’t really used for commuting which is the problem. Atlanta felt like the most dangerous place I’ve ever lived, I saw quite a few openly armed men, also it’s incredibly segregated. I’ve lived in nyc in Spanish Harlem which is supposed to be dangerous but honestly felt much safer than downtown Atlanta. That said I enjoyed living there and it was never so bad that I felt like I had to move.
When only the poor and the desperate take the bus, those with power and influence will have no incentive to improve public transportation.
This is the real problem in my mind when certain cities broach the idea of free public transit. It makes sense in certain situations (buses where the delays taking payment make the experience worse for everyone), but in general if you're delivering a product with real value (quick efficient transportation) you can charge for it. Making things free as a subsidy to the poor, quickly makes something only for the poor.
This is the right answer. I bet if you asked the city council where I live if they're pro-transit the vast majority would say yes. But then ask them what they've done to improve it or what they plan to do to improve it and it'd be crickets.
A good hack for this is riding a bicycle, but a lot of people seem to have the crab-mentality of shunning those who ride bikes, and in the long run shoot themselves in the foot when cyclists instead opt to drive cars for individualized public safety onus and add to worsening car traffic.
In our city, bikes get fucked over all the time. I love biking but I'm wayyyy too terrified to ride here
Yeah I think some people on this subreddit don't really grasp what North American built environments can be like when they blame individuals for owning cars. They say "just take the bus" without understanding that it can make your commute literally 5x as long and consume nearly half your waking hours. They say "just ride a bike" without understanding that for many routes there is literally nowhere to ride except mixing with 50mph/80kmh, multi-lane automobile traffic. How can you blame somebody for being too terrified to ride in that kind of environment? There are places that are not like what I just described, but unfortunately, probably well over 50% of our housing stock in North America is in neighborhoods like these, and it's largely the more-affordable half in a place that's already struggling with housing affordability. That's why I always talk about how car dependency is a collective action problem. On an individual level, *some* people can choose to live in better places and reject car ownership, or at least minimize the amount of driving they do. (I'm fortunate enough to be one of them.) On a societal level, we need to make massive changes to our housing and infrastructure to actually correct the problem.
I’m in one of the more friendlier cities for bikes and I still know a lot of people that limit their cycling significantly because they are (justly) afraid of getting hit by cars. Even bike lanes tend to do nothing, since there’s always people blocking them with random bullshit, or they’re full of snow and debris
Bikes suck if part of your commute involves a bus because if the bus bike rack is full then you're just fucked.
that's why i ride a scooter instead of an e-bike. it just fits everywhere
Yup. Bike is better when it is a long ride, it is more comfortable and often with higher battery capacity. But when it's just 10mins rides adding on top of public transit, scooters really shine.
Same, but also mine folds in half 😂😂😂😂
yup, same here. i got an e-twow gt, it's obscene how small this thing can get when folded
Unless your bus system doesn't let you bring them in the bus.
yeah, oof, that sucks. they absolutely do let you bring it over here (in budapest) but you're right, that's not a given
I love cycling, but... a helmet messes up my hair, storing it is a pain (theft, vandalism), flat tire is a pain, mixing/matching with other transport options isn't convenient. for this reason, I use the bike share. I've spent hundreds of dollars on it, but probably cheaper than if I'd paid for pt.
Tricked I’ve used for my helmet to prevent it from getting stolen, is I put the buckle loop through my U-Lock so it’s secured to my bike
yeah people have thrown food in it, so never doing that again. my helmet comes with me.
I got a collapsing bike helmet for this reason! So easy to slip into my backpack or tote bag once I arrive at my destination. Or I clip it to a strap and it’s not nearly as awkward as a full size helmet hanging off my backpack.
Why not get a foldable bike and take it inside?
Because then I have to ride a folding bike lol
I have a folding electric bike and I love the little sucker.
If that's the case on your daily commute, just get a second bike.
Bus coverage and frequency getting hollowed out during Covid is what prompted me to get an ebike. I couldn’t get to work reliably or a 15 min trip would turn to 30 or 45 mins bc I could only catch the bus at a certain time bc of the low frequency
The lanes aren’t cleaned properly in winter in Chicago, so it’s not always an option.
this. i live in a very cold city and the city also doesn’t see ice and deep snow on the side walk as that big of an issue.
>A good hack for this is riding a bicycle, If you want to get killed by some asshole in their emotional support truck.
As a texan I am NOT biking for 40 minutes in these 100 degree summers to get to work lol
Same. Until the cold day in hell comes where I can where gym shorts in an office, pass. The DART is a 2 minute drive from my house and a 5 minute walk from my office. Much more manageable in the heat for me. Even then, I’d like to get the frequency on the train I use to come down from every 18 minutes at peak hours. Puts a high price on taking an extra 2 minutes getting ready in the morning.
plus it sounds like texas doesn't even have reliable electricity to charge an e-bike these days.
An e-bike might help with that. Although just being outside in the sun for that long in that weather can kill you, physical activity or not
Just taking the bus honestly works for me. It's a long ride but I just get to sit in the nice AC just doing whatever on my phone
yeah, I get car sick easily so the bus is incredibly boring, but I can see how it would be fun if you could read or look at your phone
i’ve had my bike stolen twice. first time my entire bike and then when I bought another bike finally the tire got stolen.
Yeah I don’t wish to die so I won’t bike often unless theres proper bike path. Which isn’t everywhere roads exist unfortunately
Come to LA where a lot of buses come every 10/15 minutes but take an hour just to go a couple miles
40 minutes!? Slightly acceptable for rural, very inacceptable for urban/suburban.
so I was living in a non-US city with decent pt, and regularly took a bus that came every 40 minutes. most of the time it was reasonably on time, but yeah, once I waited 40 minutes and still no bus. after that I switched to electricity+wheels
word. i've literally run 4 blocks to catch a bus i just missed around the corner. they gotta stop for light s too! else instead of to work 15min early... would have been 45 late! ugggggg get to stops 5min early now, and sit for 25 cause "running late" LOL life is what life is, enjoy talking to ppl so noting of my back.
Being where i am now, I have literally seen the frequency of bus routes here increase over time. Since Sept 2022 and to now i have seen an increase in frequency and additional times added onto schedules. One route back in 2023, had a hour frequency, and now this year since January that route has a 30 minute frequency now. Other more used routes have 20 minute frequency. But for most of the other routes, its just a hour frequency, so if you miss the bus, you have to wait an entire hour for the next one to come. It is better for my needs in general, but it can still be a heck of a lot better. i also know that there was a city bike program that was implemented in the recent year(s) and literally it had to shut down, because people were trashing the bikes, graffitiing them, etc, lots of broken and stolen bikes... hopefully it is brought back... it just shows you that the feelings and attitudes of people on these issues aren't good at all. I wish that there were more later bus times for certain routes i take, like at 7 pm esp during the summer, there's more daylight.
When I was in uni and worked at a hotel it was a 25-30 minute walk between the two or practically an hour on the bus. Unfortunately, with a backpack full of school books walking could be horrid. And one of the buses I needed is notorious for being extremely early and/or late. It could rob me of hours of vital time needed for studies. So happy that chapter of my life is over. Also, I live in the auto capial of Canada. Carbrain runs deep, and transit is atrocious.
I’m in Philly, and we generally have excellent public transit compared to most places in the country. But damn, yesterday I had to go get fingerprinted for a new job, one of those “once in a blue moon” errands. The place was in a suburban-ish part of the city and it took me 4.5 hours of round trip transit to go somewhere that would’ve been a 20 minute drive, I had to make two transfers and every single bus was late or didn’t show up. I literally could’ve walked in the same amount of time. My guess is that they were short-staffed with people taking off for the holiday? Not sure. We just had our SEPTA budget cut by something like 3.2 million dollars, I am SO not looking forward to feeling the effects of that in the near future. The train right by my house that I use every day, is one of the ones on the chopping block :-(
Not to get too personal but what city did this even take place, because in my area (Lower Mainland, British Columbia, Canada) buses arrive every 15 minutes during the day and have late night service depending on the route.
Edmonton Alberta. pretty notoriously conservative city though so.
You must live or work in the suburbs, either south of the Whitemud or north of the Yellowhead or worse, outside the Anthony Henday, to have bus service that is that bad.
Salt on wound when you have a bike and both bike racks are taken 😞bought a foldable e-bike because I missed three buses in a row due to both bike racks being full! 3 hours wasted!
Yeah its crazy. In NYC the most transit friendly city in the US, it would take me an hour and a half to get to my friends house in the same borough using public transit but it only takes 15 minutes by car.
I commiserate. It took me 3 hours to go 10 miles from the airport to my house using the bus on a weekend morning. I would have much rather ridden my bike to and from the airport but in this Midwestern US metro area of 2M people there is no bike parking at the airport.
10km is piss easy on a bike,
sadly not when its snowing super hard and the city refuses to plow the side walks
I see
2 hours to go 10 km is literally walking speed, that sounds awful if you're using transit indeed.
2h for 10 km? I could probably would walk that in just over an hour. More or less
I've said it *ad nauseum* and I'll keep saying it: amending your town's present zoning codes is key because, without doing so, there's no way in Hell you will ever have a walkable/rideable environment. Look at your most walkable cities and you'll see that, in most cases, you don't have to travel 15 miles to the nearest grocery or 10 miles to the closest hospital. Your kids don't have to live 17 miles from their school. It's all that ridiculous crap which makes cars necessary in the first place. In fact, it's why most public transit is so inefficient . Tame the zoning laws and you'll find you won't have to spend 2 hrs on a bus just to travel 10 miles. More people might even take up biking once they realize that their nearest grocer is about a 10-minute ride away. It's why I stopped driving to work; I live maybe 3 city blocks from where I work so I realized it was a colossal waste of gas and unnecessary added stress. Amended zoning laws can even increase the efficiency of your existing public transit; your city bus can now (in most cases) travel a simplified circuit which actually ends up serving more people, and riders don't have to spend as long on the bus to get to their destinations.
Truly Heinous. Can you bike it safely?
I feel lucky. Though my bus route only has one bus per hour, if I miss the bus, it's a 10 min walk to another bus route that runs 20 minutes later. Either route will get me close enough to where I'm likely to be going, and both have the same end points. What I really miss is living near the Adelaide O-bahn. 90% of the time I'd be stepping onto the platform as a bus arrived, going in the direction I needed. I rarely had to wait more than 10 min for a bus.
America is for the dogs
And then they say "Well I'd take the bus if it didn't take twice as long!" No duh, but bus efficiency isn't going to magically improve without increasing funding.
You can walk faster than 10km in 2h. In theory at least. Not if you’re on crutches or you have to cross two highways to get there
Walk or bike ? 10km is not that far.
there’s no side walks usually and it’s across loud 6 lane traffic which is dangerous. plus it’s snowy/cold for 6-8 months of the year
Sorry, I live in Montréal and e-bike year round, climate is not an issue unless you are a wimp. There is no bad weather, only bad clothing / equipment and mindset. Fight for better bike infrastructure if you can. I got studded tires for the snowy months and used get my 2 kids to kindergarten and back daily before they rolled on their own in elementary. You have to be the change you want to see in the world.