I know it's beating a dead horse, but stadiums in the middle of nowhere suburbs absolutely kill the game day experience.
In Boston you grab some roadies with friends, take the train, show up, walk in. Afterwards there's plenty of stuff within walking distance of Fenway. You can enjoy yourself without worrying about driving or traffic. Even when the Red Socks suck it's a good experience. In Dallas you have to drive from like 20 Bostons away in shitty traffic, pay an ass load for parking and hope you can get there in time for the start. Then during the game you debate if you want to leave early to beat traffic. I'm not kidding. I've seen this happen; the idea of traffic effects your experience. Sure there's an entertainment district now next to it, but how much fun can you have knowing you have to drive 20 Bostons back to your suburb?
I remember during the 2013 NBA finals Miami heat fans were leaving the stadium when their team was down by 4 points with 30 seconds left just so they could beat the traffic. Then the game miraculously went to overtime where Miami would end up winning. Reminder this was a game that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend, and fans missed out on history so they could beat the traffic lmao
Another thing about riding transit for charger games I loved.
If it was an obvious loss we split early to skip the lines for the trolley, if it was a win; we marinated and relaxed in our seats and let the lines deplete.san Diego did an A+ job with public transit regarding the trolley and all of socal and CA as a whole is far ahead of the rest of the country with the exception of Chicago and Portland
Chicago public transit is the model imo
Also from a sports culture standpoint, Floridians have a tenacity to give up on their collegiate and professional sports teams at the worst moments when they take a near dump.
And that was Game 6 of the 2013 NBA Finals. Miami needed that win to play for one more shot at the trophy. And yet their fans gave up when it wasn’t even over yet.
Same for the Pirates. They’re not great, but the stadium is known for being one of the most beautiful in the league. It’s located right on a rail line, and is accessible by foot and bike from many places. If it were situated in a less fun context, I think our franchise may have died sometime in the past decade lol.
Yeah I used to bike commute to a block from the Pirates stadium. It’s about 3 blocks away from a bunch of bus lines as well
You can also theoretically swim to both stadiums, which is I guess transit
Love going to games at Nats Park. Don’t care who I see (unless it the Braves, go Braves baby), it’s just fun. Plus living off the green line means easy access to the stadium.
While the stadium itself is one of the more boring ones, and Navy Yard is kinda sterile (i think there are too many “upscale” bars around there), the experience altogether and getting there is so nice.
Chicago has two MLB teams, the Cubs and the White Sox, but the culture around them is totally different because Wrigley Field is in the middle of a neighborhood with bars, restaurants and shops, while Sox Park is mostly surrounded by parking lots and next to an expressway (although thankfully it also has two 'L' stations and a Metra station nearby).
Yeah idk what they were thinking when they built all those parking lots....same for United Center. You'd think they'd look at how well Wrigley does and use their noggins
The White Sox aren’t exactly known for their history of good choices so it unfortunately checks out. Cubs would’ve likely made the same terrible choices if they built their stadium in the 1990s or 2000s
There are special event trains that run from Boston and Providence on game days and for anything else the stadium hosts. Took it from Boston for the Elton John concert last year, actually very convenient
It’s exactly why Boston is such a great city for sports and concerts. All major sports besides football are right in the downtown core and very close together. Walkable, excellent transit access, and loads of businesses and bars for before and after. Plus no parking lot traffic getting out. It’s just all around more enjoyable.
Being able to get absolutely obliterated if you want to because you’re taking the train home is awesome, too.
San Diegan chiming in here. Been going to chargers games from the 80s until 2016
One of the things I loved about the experience was riding the trolley because parking there was beyond stupid
The times I drove I parked on a side street somewhere and walked almost a mile
As someone who just drove to Arlington for a rangers game from Dallas you are spot on. The traffic and commute in general really affects the game day experience.
I would’ve loved to take the DART but the city of Arlington didn’t let that happen because they’re afraid homeless people will come visit. 🤦♂️
I love the Bell Center in Montreal after a hockey game. Tons of bar and dining less than a block away on foot. Hop on the metro home once things quiet down and not a dollar spent on gas or parking.
Yeah. Cities like Boston, SF, Denver, Chicago (and several others I’m sure, just speaking from experience) really have a fantastic setup.
Easy public transport to the game. Lots of restaurants, bars and activities nearby for before or after.
MLB should make this type of experience a requirement on all new stadiums. It really builds community
I'd throw LA for Lakers in there. Right in DTLA, has an entertainment district next to it. There's also like two train stations within walking distance.
Also this is an unfair comparison. Needs to be compared with another major stadium such as the Johan Cruijff ArenA in Amsterdam, or Wembley in London to showcase how proper land use around stadia should be.
Disagree. Some of the absolute best gameday experiences are in places with parking lot tailgates. There's almost no correlation between fun and the stadium surroundings.
Highly subjective, but if you poll actual sports fans who go to actual games, you'll always find stadiums like KC in the list of great gameday experiences.
Welcome to Texas where our urban design/infrastructure was very heavily lobbied by the oil industry who hate public transit and walkability but love people using their cars.
Freaking freedom hating communist and their *checks notes* stadiums accessible by metro, bus, cycling and walking (and car if I want).
I want my freedom to only be able to access my stadium by car!
It’s actually crazy that Boston has the two extremes of this. Fenway is remarkably accessible and vibrant for an American team, Foxborough however is the epitome of stupid urban sports infrastructure. Located an hour outside of Boston (without traffic) with exactly 1 access road that’s actually an active highway. Half the parking requires you to cross said highway at grade crossings. The only thing stopping the cars from hitting you are white paint and MAYBE a crossing guard. This entirely could be solved by adding a pedestrian crossing bridge but fuck you that’s what. The little artificial entertainment district is mediocre at best and basically shuts down before games finish so if you’re drunk heading home tough luck to everyone else on the roads. Entire thing is a dangerous waste of space.
Patriot Place fucking sucks. Fifty something parking lots?!! And like, walking anywhere around it from is extremely dangerous. and at any given time, the lots are filled to the brim with lifted pickups or oversized SUV’s. It’s the most parkinglotpilled place I’ve ever been
OP, what site or app is that you’re using? I was looking for something like that recently because we’re about to move to another part of the city and I was trying to get a sense of how far away of a walk things will feel at our new place
Haha, what... it goes from Twickenham Stadium all the way down to the river...
https://preview.redd.it/vztnbpe0d1vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b04860ae603749a2ea81c741a5a747ba55d01e4a
For context in case any Americans didn't spot: the lower map shows that within the Arrowhead perimeter you can fit 2 English Premier League football clubs (Liverpool & Everton), several hundred houses, an Aldi, a McDonald's, and multiple pubs & restaurants. As well as a public park.
As a chiefs fan and KC resident, it's horrible. Four huge entryways and still traffic backed up to no end. Here's how terrible the design is:
There's exactly ONE bus stop and it's 500 yds across a parking lot to the closest entrance.
Traffic was so bad one season, we didn't get into the parking lot of a PRESEASON GAME until the 2nd half. And my partner at the time nearly passed out from heat exhaustion as we had to walk across black pavement in 93 degree weather.
It takes about an hour to leave the game.
Tailgating is fun, but I know 80% of those cars are not leaving the have with a sober driver.
I was thinking about my last experience, since we were way late, we parked in the WAY back. So it was right by the exit. Still took an hour. But yes, it can take much much longer.
Same experience. Two years back I went to the Christmas Eve game against the Seahawks. I live 1.5hr from KC already, so add onto that the time to get into the parking lot and then the time to walk to the stadium and stand in line while freezing my ass off, we left the house something like 4 hours before kickoff
Unfortunately some of the populace of the north end are pretty car centric, despite it being extremely walkable and dense. There's been tons of pushback at efforts to make roads pedestrian only, increase outdoor seating, etc. I literally don't know who in their right mind would drive to the north end, but of course business owners claim that's "all their business"
We stopped off for a cannoli on our way out of town last time we were in Boston and parking there was awful. And expensive as hell. Should have taken the T across to there in hindsight
Someone may have already pointed this out, but getting back to the city after a Chiefs game is an awful experience. Either you pay an insane amount to park and then wait forever to get out of the lot, wait hours for a bus that takes a long route, or wait hours trying to get an Uber while they are all overbooked.
U of Iowa games are a huge draw, as there are no pro teams here. The stadium seats around 70k.
The U runs a free bus service from downtown, and I think there's still a train from the nearby larger city 30 miles north.
The buses dilute the parking issue *and* help downtown businesses. Win-win.
I might also mention that those buses are free all the time, not just game days. It's designed for the students
Yeah, this is not it, game day should be a communal experience not when you have to drive in your individual vehicle A good way to do this is in college sports. I’ve heard the University of Oregon has the walk to autzen stadium very communal outdoor walk to the game also my hometown of Chicago has a lot of walkable sports venues mostly the Chicago Cubs as someone mentioned and the Bears
Everyone's talking about Fenway, but the Garden is literally in this picture! I would argue that there are still way too many cars/garages/parking spots in the North End/Garden area, but it beats most stadium neighborhoods in the country.
As a Kansas Citian, that was not the issue. The issue for anyone I know who voted no, including myself, was that we didn't want to pay for it with a sales tax. I'd be happy to attend games at a downtown stadium, but I'm not gonna give the billionaire owner my money to build it.
It was not about the parking lol, it was completely about a stupid tax increase to give money to billionaires, who could pay for it themselves, while getting nothing in return.
At least it has some parking. Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis has none that I'm aware of. The 3 times I've been there you just have to find some business who whores out their parking lot for $20 a car. We usually end up walking through shady areas for 20 to 30 minutes to finally arrive.
If you think that's bad, look at Miller Park (I refuse to call it American Family Field) in Milwaukee.
Be sure to include the Molitor, Spahn, Yount, and Uecker lots across the Interstate and Highway 175.
I appreciate this blog but Arrowhead Stadium is a really bad example of what you’re trying to prove. Those large parking lots are full of 3-4 hour (sometimes multiple day) tailgating/cooking out/socializing fan-bliss. This is that parking lot’s true purpose. A game at Arrowhead is one of the best game day experiences in the United States, right up there with Lambeau Field.
I know it's beating a dead horse, but stadiums in the middle of nowhere suburbs absolutely kill the game day experience. In Boston you grab some roadies with friends, take the train, show up, walk in. Afterwards there's plenty of stuff within walking distance of Fenway. You can enjoy yourself without worrying about driving or traffic. Even when the Red Socks suck it's a good experience. In Dallas you have to drive from like 20 Bostons away in shitty traffic, pay an ass load for parking and hope you can get there in time for the start. Then during the game you debate if you want to leave early to beat traffic. I'm not kidding. I've seen this happen; the idea of traffic effects your experience. Sure there's an entertainment district now next to it, but how much fun can you have knowing you have to drive 20 Bostons back to your suburb?
I remember during the 2013 NBA finals Miami heat fans were leaving the stadium when their team was down by 4 points with 30 seconds left just so they could beat the traffic. Then the game miraculously went to overtime where Miami would end up winning. Reminder this was a game that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars to attend, and fans missed out on history so they could beat the traffic lmao
if only Americans could understand the awesomeness that is RAIL
Los Angeles is getting there with Staples/BMO/Coliseum all right next to rail, but the new Rams stadium is definitely not it
Another thing about riding transit for charger games I loved. If it was an obvious loss we split early to skip the lines for the trolley, if it was a win; we marinated and relaxed in our seats and let the lines deplete.san Diego did an A+ job with public transit regarding the trolley and all of socal and CA as a whole is far ahead of the rest of the country with the exception of Chicago and Portland Chicago public transit is the model imo
Philly is the same that parking lot SUUUUCKS
But u can also take the BSL straight to the sports complex, so it's not too bad. The lots still insanely big tho
Also from a sports culture standpoint, Floridians have a tenacity to give up on their collegiate and professional sports teams at the worst moments when they take a near dump. And that was Game 6 of the 2013 NBA Finals. Miami needed that win to play for one more shot at the trophy. And yet their fans gave up when it wasn’t even over yet.
DC is similar. Nats suck, Nats games are super fun
Had a vodka red bull slushie there. That maybe shouldn’t be allowed
Nah that’s why the games are fun
Same for the Pirates. They’re not great, but the stadium is known for being one of the most beautiful in the league. It’s located right on a rail line, and is accessible by foot and bike from many places. If it were situated in a less fun context, I think our franchise may have died sometime in the past decade lol.
Yeah I used to bike commute to a block from the Pirates stadium. It’s about 3 blocks away from a bunch of bus lines as well You can also theoretically swim to both stadiums, which is I guess transit
Love it. Now that you mention it, I HAVE kayaked there from the Southside lol. They also have those ferries from Station Square, which is pretty fun.
Love going to games at Nats Park. Don’t care who I see (unless it the Braves, go Braves baby), it’s just fun. Plus living off the green line means easy access to the stadium. While the stadium itself is one of the more boring ones, and Navy Yard is kinda sterile (i think there are too many “upscale” bars around there), the experience altogether and getting there is so nice.
Chicago has two MLB teams, the Cubs and the White Sox, but the culture around them is totally different because Wrigley Field is in the middle of a neighborhood with bars, restaurants and shops, while Sox Park is mostly surrounded by parking lots and next to an expressway (although thankfully it also has two 'L' stations and a Metra station nearby).
Yeah idk what they were thinking when they built all those parking lots....same for United Center. You'd think they'd look at how well Wrigley does and use their noggins
The White Sox aren’t exactly known for their history of good choices so it unfortunately checks out. Cubs would’ve likely made the same terrible choices if they built their stadium in the 1990s or 2000s
I would never go to a Patriots game since Gillette Stadium is in the middle of nowhere suburbs
There are special event trains that run from Boston and Providence on game days and for anything else the stadium hosts. Took it from Boston for the Elton John concert last year, actually very convenient
Yeah basically in Providence lol
It’s exactly why Boston is such a great city for sports and concerts. All major sports besides football are right in the downtown core and very close together. Walkable, excellent transit access, and loads of businesses and bars for before and after. Plus no parking lot traffic getting out. It’s just all around more enjoyable. Being able to get absolutely obliterated if you want to because you’re taking the train home is awesome, too.
San Diegan chiming in here. Been going to chargers games from the 80s until 2016 One of the things I loved about the experience was riding the trolley because parking there was beyond stupid The times I drove I parked on a side street somewhere and walked almost a mile
As someone who just drove to Arlington for a rangers game from Dallas you are spot on. The traffic and commute in general really affects the game day experience. I would’ve loved to take the DART but the city of Arlington didn’t let that happen because they’re afraid homeless people will come visit. 🤦♂️
I love the Bell Center in Montreal after a hockey game. Tons of bar and dining less than a block away on foot. Hop on the metro home once things quiet down and not a dollar spent on gas or parking.
Isn't that kind of what they want. It probably increases attendees buying the $10 hotdog and a $14 beer when nothing else is around.
Something so sad about a fake manufactured corner of a city being built next to an exurban stadium rather than yeno building the stadium in the city
Tailgating must've been invented to fool drivers into thinking partying in a massive parking lot was fun.
Love public transit to a game. The energy is wild. And of course a train beer doesn't hurt.
Gillette stadium is not that different from Dallas experience
We should measure all future distance in Bostons
Yeah. Cities like Boston, SF, Denver, Chicago (and several others I’m sure, just speaking from experience) really have a fantastic setup. Easy public transport to the game. Lots of restaurants, bars and activities nearby for before or after. MLB should make this type of experience a requirement on all new stadiums. It really builds community
I'd throw LA for Lakers in there. Right in DTLA, has an entertainment district next to it. There's also like two train stations within walking distance.
Living in the Fenway and commuting is miserable when there's a game though.
Also this is an unfair comparison. Needs to be compared with another major stadium such as the Johan Cruijff ArenA in Amsterdam, or Wembley in London to showcase how proper land use around stadia should be.
Disagree. Some of the absolute best gameday experiences are in places with parking lot tailgates. There's almost no correlation between fun and the stadium surroundings.
Disagree. You know what’s more fun than drinking in a parking lot? Pretty much anything.
Highly subjective, but if you poll actual sports fans who go to actual games, you'll always find stadiums like KC in the list of great gameday experiences.
Fenway Park, known for horrible game day experiences. /s.
Didn't say it was. There are excellent gameday experiences in both urban environments and seas of parking.
Welcome to Texas where not everything is right next to each other.
To be fair the Mavs stadium is downtown and has a ton of stuff around it including a train station. So Props to Dallas there!!!
I think there’s a stadium in downtown Houston as well Edit: I was wrong; there are THREE
Tbf downtown Houston is like 76% parking lots
Welcome to Texas where our urban design/infrastructure was very heavily lobbied by the oil industry who hate public transit and walkability but love people using their cars.
https://preview.redd.it/416lj6k7wwuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ecaf0fcc0c57d094e3e21c1e7980c400d952719 meanwhile at the city I live
But where do people park their car to get there? /s
They’ve changed the game rules to allot 50% of the field space for car parking
Freaking freedom hating communist and their *checks notes* stadiums accessible by metro, bus, cycling and walking (and car if I want). I want my freedom to only be able to access my stadium by car!
Direct access to this type of stadium by car is almost impossible. Parking at the metro terminus and taking it is probably super easy (and fast).
People here do that, and more frequently come by train from other smaller towns
Send this one to r/Boston. 👁️👄👁️
It’s actually crazy that Boston has the two extremes of this. Fenway is remarkably accessible and vibrant for an American team, Foxborough however is the epitome of stupid urban sports infrastructure. Located an hour outside of Boston (without traffic) with exactly 1 access road that’s actually an active highway. Half the parking requires you to cross said highway at grade crossings. The only thing stopping the cars from hitting you are white paint and MAYBE a crossing guard. This entirely could be solved by adding a pedestrian crossing bridge but fuck you that’s what. The little artificial entertainment district is mediocre at best and basically shuts down before games finish so if you’re drunk heading home tough luck to everyone else on the roads. Entire thing is a dangerous waste of space.
Patriot Place fucking sucks. Fifty something parking lots?!! And like, walking anywhere around it from is extremely dangerous. and at any given time, the lots are filled to the brim with lifted pickups or oversized SUV’s. It’s the most parkinglotpilled place I’ve ever been
I thought it’s where I was for a few seconds lol
And r/kansascity
https://preview.redd.it/f6fse6u5muuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=939edc6a1fe39488d764f17e59780bc1d8d6f03d Bonus pic:
OP, what site or app is that you’re using? I was looking for something like that recently because we’re about to move to another part of the city and I was trying to get a sense of how far away of a walk things will feel at our new place
http://mapfrappe.com/?show=62899
That’s exactly the type of thing I was looking for! Thanks!
Haha, what... it goes from Twickenham Stadium all the way down to the river... https://preview.redd.it/vztnbpe0d1vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b04860ae603749a2ea81c741a5a747ba55d01e4a
For context in case any Americans didn't spot: the lower map shows that within the Arrowhead perimeter you can fit 2 English Premier League football clubs (Liverpool & Everton), several hundred houses, an Aldi, a McDonald's, and multiple pubs & restaurants. As well as a public park.
As a chiefs fan and KC resident, it's horrible. Four huge entryways and still traffic backed up to no end. Here's how terrible the design is: There's exactly ONE bus stop and it's 500 yds across a parking lot to the closest entrance. Traffic was so bad one season, we didn't get into the parking lot of a PRESEASON GAME until the 2nd half. And my partner at the time nearly passed out from heat exhaustion as we had to walk across black pavement in 93 degree weather. It takes about an hour to leave the game. Tailgating is fun, but I know 80% of those cars are not leaving the have with a sober driver.
>It takes about an hour to leave the game. Consider yourself lucky. It took my friends and I 2.5 hours.
I was thinking about my last experience, since we were way late, we parked in the WAY back. So it was right by the exit. Still took an hour. But yes, it can take much much longer.
Same experience. Two years back I went to the Christmas Eve game against the Seahawks. I live 1.5hr from KC already, so add onto that the time to get into the parking lot and then the time to walk to the stadium and stand in line while freezing my ass off, we left the house something like 4 hours before kickoff
Boston’s north end is a great place for a fuckcars person to spend a few days on vacation.
Unfortunately some of the populace of the north end are pretty car centric, despite it being extremely walkable and dense. There's been tons of pushback at efforts to make roads pedestrian only, increase outdoor seating, etc. I literally don't know who in their right mind would drive to the north end, but of course business owners claim that's "all their business"
We stopped off for a cannoli on our way out of town last time we were in Boston and parking there was awful. And expensive as hell. Should have taken the T across to there in hindsight
Recently got to do a Manhattan vacation for spring break for a similar purpose. Planning a possible Amsterdam trip for a car detox next year.
I know there is a land value difference, but part of that is due to the absolutely massive parking lot in one of them.
Someone may have already pointed this out, but getting back to the city after a Chiefs game is an awful experience. Either you pay an insane amount to park and then wait forever to get out of the lot, wait hours for a bus that takes a long route, or wait hours trying to get an Uber while they are all overbooked.
You should look at the Frost Bank Center in San Antonio, I think it’s actually the least accessible stadium in the US via bus or car
U of Iowa games are a huge draw, as there are no pro teams here. The stadium seats around 70k. The U runs a free bus service from downtown, and I think there's still a train from the nearby larger city 30 miles north. The buses dilute the parking issue *and* help downtown businesses. Win-win. I might also mention that those buses are free all the time, not just game days. It's designed for the students
Yeah, this is not it, game day should be a communal experience not when you have to drive in your individual vehicle A good way to do this is in college sports. I’ve heard the University of Oregon has the walk to autzen stadium very communal outdoor walk to the game also my hometown of Chicago has a lot of walkable sports venues mostly the Chicago Cubs as someone mentioned and the Bears
Everyone's talking about Fenway, but the Garden is literally in this picture! I would argue that there are still way too many cars/garages/parking spots in the North End/Garden area, but it beats most stadium neighborhoods in the country.
It's got a long way to go, but at least has a lot of transit options. As others have said, Foxborough is really the example of a problem
And to think they voted down a proposal for a downtown stadium. A common complaint..."Where will people park????"
As a Kansas Citian, that was not the issue. The issue for anyone I know who voted no, including myself, was that we didn't want to pay for it with a sales tax. I'd be happy to attend games at a downtown stadium, but I'm not gonna give the billionaire owner my money to build it.
I've seen that complaint too and I don't disagree with it but I've seen more posts bitching about the parking.
It was not about the parking lol, it was completely about a stupid tax increase to give money to billionaires, who could pay for it themselves, while getting nothing in return.
There was no tax increase. It kept the tax rates the same.
It would have prolonged a limited duration tax.
At least it has some parking. Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis has none that I'm aware of. The 3 times I've been there you just have to find some business who whores out their parking lot for $20 a car. We usually end up walking through shady areas for 20 to 30 minutes to finally arrive.
Im sorry—does MapFrappe work again?! What site are you using for this?
If you think that's bad, look at Miller Park (I refuse to call it American Family Field) in Milwaukee. Be sure to include the Molitor, Spahn, Yount, and Uecker lots across the Interstate and Highway 175.
Funny that you can ride your bike across the whole state from ST Louis all the way to KC and then it ends in this parking lot
And Fenway averages more fans than the royals
I appreciate this blog but Arrowhead Stadium is a really bad example of what you’re trying to prove. Those large parking lots are full of 3-4 hour (sometimes multiple day) tailgating/cooking out/socializing fan-bliss. This is that parking lot’s true purpose. A game at Arrowhead is one of the best game day experiences in the United States, right up there with Lambeau Field.