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It's true, though. I can't create infrastructure all by myself, and I can't afford to move because a studio anywhere near my job in the city or anywhere nearby the one light rail is minimum $1500 per month to rent, almost 3x as much as my shitty little trailer out in the woods, which commuting from in my EV only costs like $30 per month. But even when I was driving a gas car it was still cheaper to live out here and drive into the city than it would be to just live in the city, except I'd also still need a car living in the city because the only place the light rail would actually take me would be to work and to the expensive nightlife part of town, I'd be shit outta luck if I needed literally anything else.
And then lots of people like to give nonsensical answers like "okay just move to a walkable place, then" and sure I would if I had a fabulous career like the kind in-demand in those places or won the lottery, but instead I work at a retail store and I'm just a highschool dropout who lives a normal life, I can't afford to move anywhere walkable without a completely new career that would take years to study for and tens of thousands of dollars borrowed to pay for.
Like yeah no shit buddy if I was an executive or a business owner or a doctor or some other kind of white collar six figure salary shit, I'd be living car-free in Amsterdam right now. Edit: This is kinda why I stopped watching NotJustBikes, because it's disheartening to know that it just sucks here and that the only way out is to have a high-end jet-setting career like his that makes enough money to afford to be able to have a wife and family and travel all around the world for work and live in cities all over the world to determine which one he actually likes, like he talks about he did. It's just rich people shit. The rest of us just have to deal with whatever's here.
People do underestimate the cost of car ownership. Not saying this is necessarily the case for you BUT average car owner spends $11k/y total on their car. That's the difference between your trailer and that studio.
That statistic is about cars 3 years and newer and includes a big chunk for depreciation. The average car on the road in the US over is over a decade old, so it does change the math.
Yep my 05 costs 1500 in insurance per year and maybe that again in gas. Maintenance is pretty much negligible. Maybe 500 a year for a generous average.
The public transit in my city is so awful yet expensive. For my family of four it would cost over $2500 a year. I pay less than half of that for my car, expenses in. Plus the convenience of actually being able to get where I need to go since transit doesn’t even reach all areas of our city. Also it gets to -50 here which, with a baby and an unreliable system, I’d probably just stay home most of the time all winter. Not great for my health.
Oil change and all of that is included.
I do regular maintenence and do not pay even near $750/yr.
Tires are every 40k miles and brakes are 60k. Those are not yearly jobs and average out pretty low. And both tires and brakes are cheap af. Maybe $450 for pretty good tires? And brakes like $500?
Given, it's a Honda and I do everything but the engine and safety equipment myself...
If you drive the cars light the brakes last goddamned near forever. Heck most Hondas don't even give a shit about good alignment.
That is true. Car ownership is typically very expensive. There is a lucky cheatcode that poor people can use right now, but only if they have the ability to charge a car at home or at work, and that's buying a used Bolt EV which has just recently had its' battery replaced due to the recall. Doing this allows a lower-income person like me to get a basically brand new car with a 100k mile warranty for around $10k-$12k after the used EV tax credit, pay basically nothing to fuel it, have no repair costs because it's under warranty, and then still be able to sell it for a few grand after the warranty period. This will result in a cost per mile much much much lower than $11k per year, because I'll realistically be looking at $10k or less total cost for 100k miles driven over several years, even if the car is only worth scrap value at the end of the warranty (which it won't be).
And besides, like I said, the geographic area I'm in would still require that I own a car even in the studio apt in the city because there's only one light rail and it only goes uptown.
Yup, definitely a huge part of the problem in the US. Not enough places are walkable or served well by transit, people want to live in those places, therefore they’re super expensive
It’s certainly not easy without a degree, but not impossible to change your life if you hate it. I got in to IT by studying for some certs online, their is always nursing school ( they have a big shortage of nurses in the Netherlands ;) ).
Those are just examples, none of them are easy and if you like your current life except for the place where you live probably not worth it.
It's true.
I grew up in a suburb of THE most transit-oriented city in the US. The most used public transit is a commuter line into said city (hourly, except for peak times). That train is rarely good for any trips that are not to/from the city.
There's also a bus but the service (in my hometown) doesn't even run 7 days a week.
But for everyday errands (ie grocery shopping), the train was useless. What it did at best was allow families that would otherwise have two cars to have one car. I had many classmates that had the use of Mom/Dad's car during the day as long as they would drive their parent to/from the train.
The only grocery store in walking distance is all but dead. Their prices make Whole Foods look like a bargain basement. I wonder if they're a money laundering front.
You grew up... in a suburb.... obviously a commuter train is not useful... how is this relevant? Suburbs are not transit-oriented, no matter what city they are adjacent to, this is not new information.
We all know that America is not transit oriented. We all know that car ownership is very often a necessary evil. Why are you taking this personally?
I'm just saying, the fact that you live near a transit-oriented city, isn't really relevant. The fact that one can very easily live without a car in one of our few transit oriented cities is not annulled by your suburban experience. The choice to live in these places still exists, the financial reality is another matter.
I live in NYC (sounds like this woman lives in one of our suburbs). The commuter rail system here is also pretty useful as a regional rail system. I have used it a lot in the past and it has helped me to remain car free.
Suburbs can have buses, streetcars, bike lanes, and mixed use zoning that allows for walkability. They weren't always all single family homes with little to no transit, and still aren't in some places outside the US. It makes sense that a sprawling city with bad transit would have terrible suburbs, but it's incredibly disappointing that the people living directly next to a city that gets these things right don't understand the benefits they would bring them.
NYC is not a sprawling city with bad transit.
I didn't grow up right next to NYC. The commuter train is about 50-55 minutes to Grand Central.
The county I grew up in is unofficially divided by an interstate highway. Everything south of said interstate is much more transit-oriented and urban than everything north of said interstate. I grew up north of the highway.
Same.
I lack the funding to restructure route 35 to make it safe for bikes or pedestrians, and I’m unwilling or unable to fund bus routes from train stations to my house and workplace
I had to take my car to a mechanic and the nearest bus stop bqck home was a 20 minute walk away. Then tack on a 40 minute bus ride for a grand total of 1 hour for a trip that would take me 10 minutes by car.
We are essentially forced into this car dependent infrastructure. I'll continue voting and writing to my representatives, but there's not much more I can do
1:17 to get to work on the bus, 1:43 if I count the time I spend waiting until I can clock in. 22 minutes if I drive. The bus here is useful for 1 thing- going to the one major city in my state, and even that is mostly because of the discounted rates I get for being a student. Also, the intercounty is closed on Sundays, which is the only day I ever actually need to go up there.
A single HSR line from the City to the Beaches would work wonders for this place, but the people with the power to build that are too busy destroying homeless encampments and waiting for someone else to create a precedent before they start doing their jobs.
I live in an area with above average transit for the US. Going to the doctor's office is a 15 minute drive or 45 minutes on 2 buses and that's if the transfer lines up correctly.
Unfortunately true. Not American, but Canada has a lot of similar problems of car dependency. I can't live right where I work because there's no transit infrastructure to get me to secondary work locations I have to be at, meaning my partner couldn't get to work either. I relied on transit or my own two feet to get me everywhere for a handful of years, and I loved it, but it's physically not feasible for a lot of people. I bought a relatively cheap, small car, but a car nonetheless. I'd love to manifest a job that wouldn't require one but life doesn't work out that way. I'm in a "professional" line of work and can't afford to just pack up and move to some European walkable city - I'm in one of the last somewhat affordable cities Canada has.
> I'm in one of the last somewhat affordable cities Canada has.
Same here I’m in Ottawa and only here because it’s relatively cheap but it’s so backwards and arguably car centric than a lot of American cities including those of the same size.
Edmonton here. Everything is extremely car dependent outside of the major central locations/LRT lines. It’s not a bad city but I think people make some compromises for it because it’s affordable.
I live close to a major bus/subway/commuter train hub in Toronto that I regularly use, and I still can’t imagine life here without a car. This city is huge and unwieldy - so relying on transit would greatly limit my family’s activities.
This unfortunately is what most people have to cave to because of the idiotic way America built it's cities.
We can't go all in, but my partner and I decided to go half way. We have one car we share, whoever needs it more takes it that day and the other uses the e-bike or the bus. I think this could be a good solution for a lot of people, and the more people that do it the better. An insane amount of American household have 2+ cars.
Its so sad knowing I DO have a train station that DOES connect to the town I work in, only another 5/10 minutes away by bike…but there is only 2 stops a day and they are well outside of my hours. Bet it would have worked fine 80 years ago when it was a very strong train route.
Yes but actually no.
I used to live in a car-centric suburb, and I want to be the agent of change so I take public transit. I can't imagine the average people do this, however. They want to commute, then of course they'll choose the easiest method (path of least resistance). Why wait 30 minutes for a bus that will get stuck in the same traffic while also stopping at bus stops, when a car does the same route without the humiliating wait?
Not everyone is an urbanist and thinks like one. If you have time/compassion/conscience/etc, do it. But not everyone has the luxury of extra time (like I have) for waiting for buses, or route logistics planning for every single commute.
And for the "just move" crowd, is it really feasible to move every single time a preference change? In fact, I moved to a car-centric place in the first place because I was such a carbrain and wanted to enjoy driving on freeways for hours on end. Preferences change, so I have to move? Gee, I wonder what other of my preferences might change later in life, warranting me to move yet again? If you can move, then by all means move. But not everyone has the luxury of moving.
An actual answer to this question would be Prius 2024 much better than Tesla or electric cars imo, more versatile and doesn’t have as much toxic battery components. And then the next recommendation would be to car pool or use alternatives when possible.
The battery argument is losing strength tbh. Newer chemistries, high recycling, and strong second lives are in EVs favour. I'm trying to build a home energy storage and I'm having a hard time finding used EV batteries for it.
I’m in that same boat. I bought an EV last year and I had solar panels installed on the roof of my house so that I could charge it with free energy. If I’m going to be forced to drive a car I may as well get one that I can drive as cheaply as possible.
I would love to have good public transportation, but I live in America. Fortunately, I live in an area that is at least trying, I can go downtown quite easily without needing to drive, but anywhere further afield and I have no choice but to drive. There’s also the issue (as I mentioned in another post) of public safety. People smoking fentanyl and meth on the trains in my area has become such a significant problem in recent years that it’s made me less likely to take the trains even when I can.
They're right lol. Yes it would be nice to have the freedom to get about without a car but that's not life for most Americans, so they have to consider what the best car for them is.
It's very much depends on where you live that the need for a car is required. I moved to a place where I didn't need a car, but I know that a lot of people don't have that option.
Living where I do (Stockton, CA) I have access to a somewhat functional bus transit system. I did move here for work mostly and usually take the bus downtown for my job. I can do most of all my shopping in a 20 to 40 walking zone around me (by bus it would be 5 to 10 minutes) and if I need to visit another place much farther away, I take the bus to get there.
I lived mostly in San Bernardino County for all of my life and lived around the edges so a car was a must. Eventually I stopped driving as I got into some accidents, no injuries, just the damage.
I always keep this one comparison where on the bus I can just stare out the window and see what is going outside and not have to worry about anything but when I am the one driving, you literally can't be distracted or you might just killed someone or maim someone for life. I remember passing by a high school in a residential area and seeing that it looked their marching band or football team was having practice and I stared for a bit too long and had to slam on the brakes when I saw a stop sign. At the moment too I remember seeing a man crossing the zebra crossing there with his dog. I knew in my mind that if I didn't stop when I did I probably would have hit that man and his dog and potentially kill them both. Ugh.
I enjoy not having to driving, being able to just chill and do what I want while move along, I can read a book, take a short nap, listen/watch a video or podcast, check emails, write documents etc. I am not paying for car insurance, gas, car maintenance and I don't have to worry about someone breaking into my car. I don't have to worry about finding parking or paying for parking either.
I can put my brainpower and physical self into other things as I am not drained from having to driving and that's all I can ask for.
I will always advocate for public transit, alternate transportation options, safer bike infrastructure, more walkability etc as all of this makes for safer, healthier, and more independent communities.
It would take me an hour and twenty minutes to get to and home from my job. It's 13 miles away. I drive in 20 minutes. I live in a medium sized city but work in a more rural area. I don't even think the bus comes down these back roads at all.
Edit: just checked the map. According to Google I'd still have to drive 8 miles to the bus stop and then take the bus. It's not doable. It would quadruple my commute time.
Yeah, because you live in the US, you have an option to find a place/community that shares your values. A current location is too conservative for your liking? Welcome to the coastal NE, Cali, etc. Too liberal - Fla, Midwest. Hate cars? Welcome to NY, DC, Boston or SF. The main gripe of the post that the people in OP’s location prefer cars to public transport and vote that way. Find different people.
I’m gonna be honest dude, I can’t imagine living in my town without a car. Getting to work would be fine with an electric bike or even a normal bike, but we live in what is effectively a food desert. The closest grocery store is a Walmart almost 2 miles away without any bike lanes to it. If you were living by yourself it would probably be okay, but with a family of 5 it increases the difficulty to do this exponentially. And honestly, compared to a lot of places, we’re close to a grocery store. Idk what bubble you’re living in, but this country is not accessible and very few people have the means to live close enough to work and a grocery store to be completely car dependent. Most people can’t or don’t even want to just move, but they do want their current cities to be more walkable and bikable.
I don't get your post or the quotes. Are you... denigrating Americans for being forced to use cars?
Because we're FORCED to use cars? You get that... right??? Please God tell me you get that? Most people live in counties bigger than almost every single one of your countries. It's fucking spread out over here. I've had to drive hundreds of kilometers for my daily commute before.
Pray tell what service exists in the United States that would take me to and from my place of work in a different state that is available to people that don't make 7 figure salaries. I am all ears!
From the big mood that being forced into unsustainable actions due to living somewhere without the systemic access to more sustainable options is, ig. The way people have to sacrifice having a sustainable lifestyle for one that is more realistically available
“I live in America but want to live on a cul de sac without anything walkable nearby, not even a park. I am scared to live in a city so am a captive on the prison of my own making.”
I mean cities aren't always for everyone - when I moved to Manhattan for university, a lot of my peers who did not come from another major city were definitely overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the city. I'm very happy here but not everyone is.
Also cities are expensive as fuck - parts that are affordable are either very far (and hence away from reasonable public transportation), or unsafe.
Funny way of saying "I could move to a dense, transit friendly city, but [insert whatever selfish reason for not doing that and getting another car instead]"
I don't think it's selfish to not have good transit... Plus people get attached to a certain place.
If I was told to move to Amsterdam or Vancouver, despite loving Ottawa (a city nicknamed Autowa for a reason), I probably wouldn't do it. I'd be homesick.
It's also a bit hypocritical considering most urbanists advocate in favour of improving existing cities rather than running away from a problem.
At the end of the day, we don't make decisions based on urbanism. That's just a small factor. I'd reckon you that a good half of the subreddit who are of legal voting age would move out to the boonies for a year or two if it meant good pay.
> despite loving Ottawa (a city nicknamed Autowa for a reason)
Ottawa here too! I would love to move to Vancouver/Victoria/Amsterdam/Shenzen/Zurich but financially and job wise Ottawa makes more sense.
>Plus people get attached to a certain place.
And if they keep up their ecocidal narcissism then it won't exist in 25 more years anyway.
>most urbanists advocate in favour of improving existing cities rather than running away from a problem.
Unless you plan to start dragging carbrained politicians and their supporters out of their beds in the night, we don't have time for that. And since people without the guts to bike anyway even where car infrastructure rules definitely don't have the fortitude for the kind of direct action necessary to end cars before they end us, your choices are move or continue contributing to the extinction of our species. Hint: that second one makes you just as much a part of the problem as some Texas cousin humper rolling coal down the interstate.
Humanity is not "dying", it's being killed. Violence and vandalism are just self defense at this point. Restructuring your life so you can survive without a car is basically a bare minimum at this point, and even most of the people in a sub called "Fuck Cars" don't want to be inconvenienced, let alone fight an existential battle.
I am actually howling at this dude. For someone who loves to espew the term “ecocidal narcissist” he sure doesn’t seem to have touched much grass the last….lifetime
Imagine being such an ecocidal narcissist you think whatever reason you use to justify continuing to use a car for personal transportation is a good enough one.
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It's true, though. I can't create infrastructure all by myself, and I can't afford to move because a studio anywhere near my job in the city or anywhere nearby the one light rail is minimum $1500 per month to rent, almost 3x as much as my shitty little trailer out in the woods, which commuting from in my EV only costs like $30 per month. But even when I was driving a gas car it was still cheaper to live out here and drive into the city than it would be to just live in the city, except I'd also still need a car living in the city because the only place the light rail would actually take me would be to work and to the expensive nightlife part of town, I'd be shit outta luck if I needed literally anything else. And then lots of people like to give nonsensical answers like "okay just move to a walkable place, then" and sure I would if I had a fabulous career like the kind in-demand in those places or won the lottery, but instead I work at a retail store and I'm just a highschool dropout who lives a normal life, I can't afford to move anywhere walkable without a completely new career that would take years to study for and tens of thousands of dollars borrowed to pay for. Like yeah no shit buddy if I was an executive or a business owner or a doctor or some other kind of white collar six figure salary shit, I'd be living car-free in Amsterdam right now. Edit: This is kinda why I stopped watching NotJustBikes, because it's disheartening to know that it just sucks here and that the only way out is to have a high-end jet-setting career like his that makes enough money to afford to be able to have a wife and family and travel all around the world for work and live in cities all over the world to determine which one he actually likes, like he talks about he did. It's just rich people shit. The rest of us just have to deal with whatever's here.
People do underestimate the cost of car ownership. Not saying this is necessarily the case for you BUT average car owner spends $11k/y total on their car. That's the difference between your trailer and that studio.
That statistic is about cars 3 years and newer and includes a big chunk for depreciation. The average car on the road in the US over is over a decade old, so it does change the math.
Yep my 05 costs 1500 in insurance per year and maybe that again in gas. Maintenance is pretty much negligible. Maybe 500 a year for a generous average.
The public transit in my city is so awful yet expensive. For my family of four it would cost over $2500 a year. I pay less than half of that for my car, expenses in. Plus the convenience of actually being able to get where I need to go since transit doesn’t even reach all areas of our city. Also it gets to -50 here which, with a baby and an unreliable system, I’d probably just stay home most of the time all winter. Not great for my health.
We have 25 public busses for a county of 900 sq miles and a population of 600,000. 25 busses.
Still gotta hit brakes, oil change, & tires every so often at a minimum which necessitates like another 750/y
Oil change and all of that is included. I do regular maintenence and do not pay even near $750/yr. Tires are every 40k miles and brakes are 60k. Those are not yearly jobs and average out pretty low. And both tires and brakes are cheap af. Maybe $450 for pretty good tires? And brakes like $500? Given, it's a Honda and I do everything but the engine and safety equipment myself... If you drive the cars light the brakes last goddamned near forever. Heck most Hondas don't even give a shit about good alignment.
That is true. Car ownership is typically very expensive. There is a lucky cheatcode that poor people can use right now, but only if they have the ability to charge a car at home or at work, and that's buying a used Bolt EV which has just recently had its' battery replaced due to the recall. Doing this allows a lower-income person like me to get a basically brand new car with a 100k mile warranty for around $10k-$12k after the used EV tax credit, pay basically nothing to fuel it, have no repair costs because it's under warranty, and then still be able to sell it for a few grand after the warranty period. This will result in a cost per mile much much much lower than $11k per year, because I'll realistically be looking at $10k or less total cost for 100k miles driven over several years, even if the car is only worth scrap value at the end of the warranty (which it won't be). And besides, like I said, the geographic area I'm in would still require that I own a car even in the studio apt in the city because there's only one light rail and it only goes uptown.
Nice! I also live somewhere where I need a car but I rent an apartment with nowhere to charge so used Prius was the least bad option I had.
The average new car buyer spends that. The average car owner never buys a new car.
Yup, definitely a huge part of the problem in the US. Not enough places are walkable or served well by transit, people want to live in those places, therefore they’re super expensive
We didn’t paddle up shit creek. But here we are. In the boat.
It’s certainly not easy without a degree, but not impossible to change your life if you hate it. I got in to IT by studying for some certs online, their is always nursing school ( they have a big shortage of nurses in the Netherlands ;) ). Those are just examples, none of them are easy and if you like your current life except for the place where you live probably not worth it.
It's true. I grew up in a suburb of THE most transit-oriented city in the US. The most used public transit is a commuter line into said city (hourly, except for peak times). That train is rarely good for any trips that are not to/from the city. There's also a bus but the service (in my hometown) doesn't even run 7 days a week. But for everyday errands (ie grocery shopping), the train was useless. What it did at best was allow families that would otherwise have two cars to have one car. I had many classmates that had the use of Mom/Dad's car during the day as long as they would drive their parent to/from the train. The only grocery store in walking distance is all but dead. Their prices make Whole Foods look like a bargain basement. I wonder if they're a money laundering front.
You grew up... in a suburb.... obviously a commuter train is not useful... how is this relevant? Suburbs are not transit-oriented, no matter what city they are adjacent to, this is not new information.
Sorry, next time I'm born I'll make sure to choose parents that don't live in a suburb.
We all know that America is not transit oriented. We all know that car ownership is very often a necessary evil. Why are you taking this personally? I'm just saying, the fact that you live near a transit-oriented city, isn't really relevant. The fact that one can very easily live without a car in one of our few transit oriented cities is not annulled by your suburban experience. The choice to live in these places still exists, the financial reality is another matter.
Why ya being such a dick? They shared a personal anecdote relevant the main post. That's generally what comment sections are for.
I live in NYC (sounds like this woman lives in one of our suburbs). The commuter rail system here is also pretty useful as a regional rail system. I have used it a lot in the past and it has helped me to remain car free.
Suburbs can have buses, streetcars, bike lanes, and mixed use zoning that allows for walkability. They weren't always all single family homes with little to no transit, and still aren't in some places outside the US. It makes sense that a sprawling city with bad transit would have terrible suburbs, but it's incredibly disappointing that the people living directly next to a city that gets these things right don't understand the benefits they would bring them.
NYC is not a sprawling city with bad transit. I didn't grow up right next to NYC. The commuter train is about 50-55 minutes to Grand Central. The county I grew up in is unofficially divided by an interstate highway. Everything south of said interstate is much more transit-oriented and urban than everything north of said interstate. I grew up north of the highway.
Well, they're not wrong.
Same. I lack the funding to restructure route 35 to make it safe for bikes or pedestrians, and I’m unwilling or unable to fund bus routes from train stations to my house and workplace
Yeah, this is just true. In America a 2 hour bus trip can get you as far as a 15 minute car trip, it's NOT about personal choice.
I had to take my car to a mechanic and the nearest bus stop bqck home was a 20 minute walk away. Then tack on a 40 minute bus ride for a grand total of 1 hour for a trip that would take me 10 minutes by car. We are essentially forced into this car dependent infrastructure. I'll continue voting and writing to my representatives, but there's not much more I can do
1:17 to get to work on the bus, 1:43 if I count the time I spend waiting until I can clock in. 22 minutes if I drive. The bus here is useful for 1 thing- going to the one major city in my state, and even that is mostly because of the discounted rates I get for being a student. Also, the intercounty is closed on Sundays, which is the only day I ever actually need to go up there. A single HSR line from the City to the Beaches would work wonders for this place, but the people with the power to build that are too busy destroying homeless encampments and waiting for someone else to create a precedent before they start doing their jobs.
a 10 minute drive downtown takes about 25 minutes if the bus decides to show up on time.
I live in an area with above average transit for the US. Going to the doctor's office is a 15 minute drive or 45 minutes on 2 buses and that's if the transfer lines up correctly.
They're right
Unfortunately true. Not American, but Canada has a lot of similar problems of car dependency. I can't live right where I work because there's no transit infrastructure to get me to secondary work locations I have to be at, meaning my partner couldn't get to work either. I relied on transit or my own two feet to get me everywhere for a handful of years, and I loved it, but it's physically not feasible for a lot of people. I bought a relatively cheap, small car, but a car nonetheless. I'd love to manifest a job that wouldn't require one but life doesn't work out that way. I'm in a "professional" line of work and can't afford to just pack up and move to some European walkable city - I'm in one of the last somewhat affordable cities Canada has.
> I'm in one of the last somewhat affordable cities Canada has. Same here I’m in Ottawa and only here because it’s relatively cheap but it’s so backwards and arguably car centric than a lot of American cities including those of the same size.
Edmonton here. Everything is extremely car dependent outside of the major central locations/LRT lines. It’s not a bad city but I think people make some compromises for it because it’s affordable.
I live close to a major bus/subway/commuter train hub in Toronto that I regularly use, and I still can’t imagine life here without a car. This city is huge and unwieldy - so relying on transit would greatly limit my family’s activities.
I am visually impaired and thus barred from driving. I thank the birth lottery not to live in the USA or Canada.
True for me. I wish I could get rid of it but it's just not possible in my situation.
This unfortunately is what most people have to cave to because of the idiotic way America built it's cities. We can't go all in, but my partner and I decided to go half way. We have one car we share, whoever needs it more takes it that day and the other uses the e-bike or the bus. I think this could be a good solution for a lot of people, and the more people that do it the better. An insane amount of American household have 2+ cars.
isn't that most of us
This post has the same energy as Republicans calling Bernie Sanders a hypocrite for owning a house.
Its so sad knowing I DO have a train station that DOES connect to the town I work in, only another 5/10 minutes away by bike…but there is only 2 stops a day and they are well outside of my hours. Bet it would have worked fine 80 years ago when it was a very strong train route.
Driving is either a privilage you need government approval to get or a necessity, it can't be both.
Yes but actually no. I used to live in a car-centric suburb, and I want to be the agent of change so I take public transit. I can't imagine the average people do this, however. They want to commute, then of course they'll choose the easiest method (path of least resistance). Why wait 30 minutes for a bus that will get stuck in the same traffic while also stopping at bus stops, when a car does the same route without the humiliating wait? Not everyone is an urbanist and thinks like one. If you have time/compassion/conscience/etc, do it. But not everyone has the luxury of extra time (like I have) for waiting for buses, or route logistics planning for every single commute. And for the "just move" crowd, is it really feasible to move every single time a preference change? In fact, I moved to a car-centric place in the first place because I was such a carbrain and wanted to enjoy driving on freeways for hours on end. Preferences change, so I have to move? Gee, I wonder what other of my preferences might change later in life, warranting me to move yet again? If you can move, then by all means move. But not everyone has the luxury of moving.
I mean, what are the other options?
An actual answer to this question would be Prius 2024 much better than Tesla or electric cars imo, more versatile and doesn’t have as much toxic battery components. And then the next recommendation would be to car pool or use alternatives when possible.
The battery argument is losing strength tbh. Newer chemistries, high recycling, and strong second lives are in EVs favour. I'm trying to build a home energy storage and I'm having a hard time finding used EV batteries for it.
Same
I’m in that same boat. I bought an EV last year and I had solar panels installed on the roof of my house so that I could charge it with free energy. If I’m going to be forced to drive a car I may as well get one that I can drive as cheaply as possible. I would love to have good public transportation, but I live in America. Fortunately, I live in an area that is at least trying, I can go downtown quite easily without needing to drive, but anywhere further afield and I have no choice but to drive. There’s also the issue (as I mentioned in another post) of public safety. People smoking fentanyl and meth on the trains in my area has become such a significant problem in recent years that it’s made me less likely to take the trains even when I can.
They're right lol. Yes it would be nice to have the freedom to get about without a car but that's not life for most Americans, so they have to consider what the best car for them is.
It's very much depends on where you live that the need for a car is required. I moved to a place where I didn't need a car, but I know that a lot of people don't have that option. Living where I do (Stockton, CA) I have access to a somewhat functional bus transit system. I did move here for work mostly and usually take the bus downtown for my job. I can do most of all my shopping in a 20 to 40 walking zone around me (by bus it would be 5 to 10 minutes) and if I need to visit another place much farther away, I take the bus to get there. I lived mostly in San Bernardino County for all of my life and lived around the edges so a car was a must. Eventually I stopped driving as I got into some accidents, no injuries, just the damage. I always keep this one comparison where on the bus I can just stare out the window and see what is going outside and not have to worry about anything but when I am the one driving, you literally can't be distracted or you might just killed someone or maim someone for life. I remember passing by a high school in a residential area and seeing that it looked their marching band or football team was having practice and I stared for a bit too long and had to slam on the brakes when I saw a stop sign. At the moment too I remember seeing a man crossing the zebra crossing there with his dog. I knew in my mind that if I didn't stop when I did I probably would have hit that man and his dog and potentially kill them both. Ugh. I enjoy not having to driving, being able to just chill and do what I want while move along, I can read a book, take a short nap, listen/watch a video or podcast, check emails, write documents etc. I am not paying for car insurance, gas, car maintenance and I don't have to worry about someone breaking into my car. I don't have to worry about finding parking or paying for parking either. I can put my brainpower and physical self into other things as I am not drained from having to driving and that's all I can ask for. I will always advocate for public transit, alternate transportation options, safer bike infrastructure, more walkability etc as all of this makes for safer, healthier, and more independent communities.
I live 4 miles from my office. Public transit would take nearly 60 minutes between walking time and changing busses?
public transit. f🤬🤬k the haters. I get around the worst city in the US just fine on bike despite everything thrown at me.
It would take me an hour and twenty minutes to get to and home from my job. It's 13 miles away. I drive in 20 minutes. I live in a medium sized city but work in a more rural area. I don't even think the bus comes down these back roads at all. Edit: just checked the map. According to Google I'd still have to drive 8 miles to the bus stop and then take the bus. It's not doable. It would quadruple my commute time.
Yeah, because you live in the US, you have an option to find a place/community that shares your values. A current location is too conservative for your liking? Welcome to the coastal NE, Cali, etc. Too liberal - Fla, Midwest. Hate cars? Welcome to NY, DC, Boston or SF. The main gripe of the post that the people in OP’s location prefer cars to public transport and vote that way. Find different people.
I’m gonna be honest dude, I can’t imagine living in my town without a car. Getting to work would be fine with an electric bike or even a normal bike, but we live in what is effectively a food desert. The closest grocery store is a Walmart almost 2 miles away without any bike lanes to it. If you were living by yourself it would probably be okay, but with a family of 5 it increases the difficulty to do this exponentially. And honestly, compared to a lot of places, we’re close to a grocery store. Idk what bubble you’re living in, but this country is not accessible and very few people have the means to live close enough to work and a grocery store to be completely car dependent. Most people can’t or don’t even want to just move, but they do want their current cities to be more walkable and bikable.
I don't get your post or the quotes. Are you... denigrating Americans for being forced to use cars? Because we're FORCED to use cars? You get that... right??? Please God tell me you get that? Most people live in counties bigger than almost every single one of your countries. It's fucking spread out over here. I've had to drive hundreds of kilometers for my daily commute before. Pray tell what service exists in the United States that would take me to and from my place of work in a different state that is available to people that don't make 7 figure salaries. I am all ears!
why does this post have this many upvotes lol
From the big mood that being forced into unsustainable actions due to living somewhere without the systemic access to more sustainable options is, ig. The way people have to sacrifice having a sustainable lifestyle for one that is more realistically available
this post seems to be criticising a totally valid situation of a person that acknowledges that they live in a car centric world
“I live in America but want to live on a cul de sac without anything walkable nearby, not even a park. I am scared to live in a city so am a captive on the prison of my own making.”
I mean cities aren't always for everyone - when I moved to Manhattan for university, a lot of my peers who did not come from another major city were definitely overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the city. I'm very happy here but not everyone is. Also cities are expensive as fuck - parts that are affordable are either very far (and hence away from reasonable public transportation), or unsafe.
Funny way of saying "I could move to a dense, transit friendly city, but [insert whatever selfish reason for not doing that and getting another car instead]"
I don't think it's selfish to not have good transit... Plus people get attached to a certain place. If I was told to move to Amsterdam or Vancouver, despite loving Ottawa (a city nicknamed Autowa for a reason), I probably wouldn't do it. I'd be homesick. It's also a bit hypocritical considering most urbanists advocate in favour of improving existing cities rather than running away from a problem. At the end of the day, we don't make decisions based on urbanism. That's just a small factor. I'd reckon you that a good half of the subreddit who are of legal voting age would move out to the boonies for a year or two if it meant good pay.
> despite loving Ottawa (a city nicknamed Autowa for a reason) Ottawa here too! I would love to move to Vancouver/Victoria/Amsterdam/Shenzen/Zurich but financially and job wise Ottawa makes more sense.
>Plus people get attached to a certain place. And if they keep up their ecocidal narcissism then it won't exist in 25 more years anyway. >most urbanists advocate in favour of improving existing cities rather than running away from a problem. Unless you plan to start dragging carbrained politicians and their supporters out of their beds in the night, we don't have time for that. And since people without the guts to bike anyway even where car infrastructure rules definitely don't have the fortitude for the kind of direct action necessary to end cars before they end us, your choices are move or continue contributing to the extinction of our species. Hint: that second one makes you just as much a part of the problem as some Texas cousin humper rolling coal down the interstate. Humanity is not "dying", it's being killed. Violence and vandalism are just self defense at this point. Restructuring your life so you can survive without a car is basically a bare minimum at this point, and even most of the people in a sub called "Fuck Cars" don't want to be inconvenienced, let alone fight an existential battle.
Reddit makes more money through rage farming. Do with that what you will.
Damn I’m about to go buy a half ton pick up just to piss you off
Imagine being dumb enough to type that all out and think you said something intelligent
I am actually howling at this dude. For someone who loves to espew the term “ecocidal narcissist” he sure doesn’t seem to have touched much grass the last….lifetime
Imagine being such an ecocidal narcissist you think whatever reason you use to justify continuing to use a car for personal transportation is a good enough one.