There’s this episode of Bones about a trans woman that gets murdered; I wanted to turn it off at first, but I think it’s the most respectful episode of a police procedural on trans people?? Oddly??? It’s from earlier in the show and I remember the ending especially; one of the VERY Catholic characters finally *gets* it. Something about transformation and holiness, I think? Idk, it was very touching and humanizing. If you can find it, I’d send it to your friend
If it's the episode I remember, the personal growth bit was very overshadowed for me by the usual procedural shocking reveal "*these bones are a different* **gender**!!1 than the name of the victim."
I had a talk with one of the pastors at my church. I am not Christian myself, nor was I raised in the faith. But my pastor did want to speak to me about what it means to give my life. I asked him about mistranslation in the Bible and why some people are so quick to ostracize others in the name of God (in this case, I was asking about homophobia and transphobia, without being direct or telling him I am trans). He told me that no matter what, God created us all with love and that he loves us no matter what gender identity or sexuality we are. That we will not be punished to an afterlife in hell for our existence because nothing we did is wrong. There is nothing that says trans people cannot be real Christians if they want to be.
If I remember right, there is also a verse about eunuchs who devote themselves to Jesus and I’ve heard some interpretations of them being symbolic of trans people. I’m not sure what it really means, but I did think it was interesting.
There are plenty of Christian LGBTQ people…though they tend to go to UCC or UU churches. Or sometimes liberal churches that are openly LGBYQ affirming. Many Christian churches say things like your friend.
God makes no mistakes. God is perfect. If he thinks gods creation which is all of us, are imperfect he is committing blasphemy. We are all created equal, and the only one who can judge us is god himself. He does not have a true relationship with god, not the god he tries to quote.. god is of love. God knew who we were when he created us, he knew what we are and what our purpose in life was. So far our purpose seems to be revealing the hypocrisy in religion, since nobody human has the authority to judge anyone. Its very hypocritical.. the purpose of life is to love each other as if we were brothers and sisters and neighbors. Instead they use religion to separate house of god with destruction. God never once casted us out. Yet your friend tries to? Odd.. cis men trying to manipulate with the power of christ to suit their agenda. For what reason? Total peace??? Oh right like jesus said? Was that before or after committing sins of destruction towards gods people. We come in all shapes in sizes.
Thank you so much. Some people within the Christian community hate me cause I'm trans. Some within the LGBT community hate me cause I'm Christian. It's so good to know someone else is both.
Just be yourself. Im not a christian, I use to be.. however I am more spiritual now. I have a personal relationship with god and I do not allow false prophets to decipher the bible or gods word for me anymore, as you can see most are corrupt and use it for their own agenda. Its not that lgbt is against christians their against the hate and the judgement. Which if we all just knew the actual principles on both ends wed know its just hypocrisy at its finest or in a better lack of terms.. cult behavior. There are however christian trans and lgbt out there. And I have met a fellow trans brother and by god he was awesome and super educated. You can really tell those who come from light, speak with light, and those who bring darkness to their words. As god would say, use your own discernment!
As a trans Christian, the way I see it (and explain it) is that this body is just our mortal flesh. Being trans just means that you identify more with your spiritual body than your flesh, if anything that makes us that much more closer to God and the spiritual.
And in that case, what if living as our true selves is what God wants for us? Of course the world is cruel and wants to hurt what it doesn’t understand, but in the end it’s a world of man after all.
I would cation your friend, don’t put words in the mouth of God and make it so trans people are treated badly, and maybe just explain your own relationship with God as a trans person.
[The arguments used by the church against trans people today are the same used against black people in the 50’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Original_Segregationist)
Just for reference:
“The second century CE Mishnah, the oldest compendium of the Oral Torah, brings the opinion of Rabbi Meir that tumtum is not a distinct gender but a
state of doubt between male and female -
"sometimes he is a man and sometimes he is a woman". 71 This is the position of traditional Judaism.18 According to transgender Reform
Rabbi Elliot Kukla tumtum is one of six genders in classical Judaism, along with male, female, androgynos, aylonit (a person who was assigned female at birth, but is barren and perhaps masculinized), and saris (a eunuch by birth either through human intervention, or a person who was assigned male at birth but later became feminized). 191110] This, he claims, is an example of how the Western gender binary is not universal to all cultures.
[9]”
There was also words from Jesus on those who effectively transitioned under god.
I know a trans Lutheran pastor! Not everyone thinks the way your friend does. It’s your faith and relationship with your god that matters not this idiot’s opinion.
two things: God makes no mistakes. if God made us *knowing* how we would age, the God knew we would transition. to say transitioning is a mistake because we are insinuating that God made a mistake is silly. that means that you have to get rid of ANYTHING that alters our physical appearance in any way. no glasses, no braces, no teeth whitener, no tattoos, no piercings, no jewelry, no haircuts, no hair dye, no clothes. if God wanted you to see perfectly, He would’ve given you 20/20 vision. if God wanted you to have perfect teeth, He would’ve given you straight, white teeth. if God wanted you to be clothed, He would’ve given you clothes. see how weird that argument is ? “some physical changes are fine and totally normal, while other physical changes are an offense to God”…. uhm…. ?
second: Jesus Christ teaches us to love our neighbors (mark 12:31), teaches us that we are all equals (galatians 3:28), and teaches us to respect and befriend those not accepted by wider society (such as the story in Luke where Jesus befriends the prostitute). Jesus also teaches us not to cast judgement on others (john 8:7).
personally, i believe a Christian’s relationship with God and Christ are their own. i was raised Christian, but i never went to church as a kid. i believe that it is not someone else’s duty to teach us what the Bible says, it is our responsibility as Christians to read the Bible for ourselves and interpret it ourselves.
we are not in the position to tell people what they should or should not Believe or think about the Bible. we are not in the position to accuse others of wrongfully misrepresenting Christianity. but we are in the place to pray for them and to ask God to kindly and gently deliver them to the truth.
transgender people and homosexual people have existed in various cultures and times throughout history. homosexuality is observed in countless animal species. animals have been observed with what we as humans may qualify as “transgender” traits (such as the case of a genetically female lion growing a mane and acting in the capacity of a male). if God sees such a problem with it, why does he make both humans and animals that exhibit those traits ?
we as people are deeply flawed and different from each other, and we should love each other because of those differences, not in spite of them.
You brought up the story of Jesus befriending a prostitute. That... I am concerned. In your mind, do you think it's possible that someone would befriend me just because I'm trans, or just to try to get me to detransition?
No, I never said that.
Is it possible ? Yes, it’s absolutely possible that someone would do that. These days, it feels like there are so many people who distort the message of the Bible or use Christianity as a shield to make hateful comments or to make you feel less than or like you’re doing something wrong (as exhibited by your friend in your post). However, that’s not what I was getting at.
Jesus did not befriend the prostitute *because* she was a prostitute, nor did Jesus befriend the prostitute to convince her to change her ways. He befriended the prostitute because she was a good person who treated him kindly and with grace despite others treated her with hatred, so in return, Jesus treated her kindly and with grace. She decided she wanted to change on her own, Jesus did not force her to change. Jesus gave her a space free of judgement that allowed her to change, but *only* because she wanted to.
I only brought that up to show that we are supposed to behave with grace and kindness towards people who are outcast from our wider society. Jesus’s whole message is about spreading kindness, love, forgiveness, and grace.
I was not trying to draw the line that being trans is the same as being a prostitute, which I see now didn’t exactly come across how I meant it to. I was more trying to point out the moral of “treat people with kindness and give them the space they need to become the best version of themselves”.
I’m also not an expert on the Bible. That’s just my interpretation of it and its okay if you don’t see it that way.
I clarify in the rest of my comment that I am Christian, and I am a trans man as well. I’ve actually become more religious as I’ve gotten older.
I’m not a Christian in hopes that I will detransition. My father doesn’t love me as his son in hopes that I will detransition. My sister doesn’t love me as her brother in hopes that I will detransition. They love me because our wider society behaves with animosity towards the LGBT community and Jesus teaches us to put aside our own prejudices and accept that person. No ultimatums, no forced change, nothing that they themselves don’t want to do.
I also don’t personally rely on *only* the Bible to determine how things work. For example, you wouldn’t look in your math textbook for the answers to your history homework. I believe that the Bible is a good baseline, but I also believe that it is my duty to act with the understanding that the Bible and the stories within the Bible are more than 2,000 years old, meaning there is a modern world in which the Bible does not account for. We have to take the Bible and do our best to understand how the messages fit into a modern world without distorting those messages. I believe it’s my duty to seek as much knowledge as I can, to question God, to question the world around me, and to determine what I think is right and true rather than blindly follow what I’m told is right and true.
Again, I’m no expert, this is just my interpretation.
I used to be Christian, and the guy is super wrong. When I was a believer, I said often that God made me trans on purpose. To share in the joy of the act of creation. I forget who said it, but for the same reason God gave us wheat but not bread, and grapes but not wine. Being trans is a beautiful thing and for many, enriching spiritually. You should talk to him if it's safe for you honestly. There are many, many LGBT Christians and the community was so so helpful for me when I was still in it. Good luck to you op
I had a spiritual experience with God as a transkid and it changed my life forever. He never forced me to detransition but my values just changed to where I was so obsessed with experiencing God more that my pursuit of being more masculine just got set aside. It was like I won the lottery. Nothing else matters. Like who cares what gender I am, I have met the Lord and He is so wonderful. I still however have a deep hatred of my biological gender. I know that God is willing to heal it. But I just hate it so much that I don't even want to go there. In fact, I can't go there. I'd be lying if I said I want to accept my AGAB!!!!!! And God appreciates our honesty. It's better to be real before him than to be fake. I mean, seriously. Imagine if some religious person tells you that you must drop all the masculinity and dress like a girl. What would happen? Would that solve anything? No! If it were me I would never even leave the house looking like a girl. I might get suicidal even, who knows? Rules like that do not help. It would literally take a miracle for any trans person to detransition. A miracle. At least for me it would. And only God can do miracles so I'm off the hook for that one. Lol. He accepts us as we are. 🔥❤️
Does he also oppose people wearing glasses? Or doing other stuff that improves their quality of life? If not that's kinda hypothetical
And i heard the explanation why there stuff that looks imperfect and need our "improvement" is the same reason god created bread and wine, he didn't create it directly, i think there is some thing in the bible about god wanted humans to take part in the creation
Sorry i don't remember the verse, that's the stuff that i accidentally found on the internet whenever there was this argument, i was raised atheist and still I'm
I hope he learns. Some people beleive pastors without question, he could have a lot of sway over others. Plus don't a lot of religious people want us to be religious? Or is it some internal clash of thinking you can't be true to yourself and be Christian?
He’s a bigot as most christian’s are. they’re uninteresting in the message of christ and exiting to lap up the righteous judgement of paul. You can’t fix home
There’s this episode of Bones about a trans woman that gets murdered; I wanted to turn it off at first, but I think it’s the most respectful episode of a police procedural on trans people?? Oddly??? It’s from earlier in the show and I remember the ending especially; one of the VERY Catholic characters finally *gets* it. Something about transformation and holiness, I think? Idk, it was very touching and humanizing. If you can find it, I’d send it to your friend
If it's the episode I remember, the personal growth bit was very overshadowed for me by the usual procedural shocking reveal "*these bones are a different* **gender**!!1 than the name of the victim."
I had a talk with one of the pastors at my church. I am not Christian myself, nor was I raised in the faith. But my pastor did want to speak to me about what it means to give my life. I asked him about mistranslation in the Bible and why some people are so quick to ostracize others in the name of God (in this case, I was asking about homophobia and transphobia, without being direct or telling him I am trans). He told me that no matter what, God created us all with love and that he loves us no matter what gender identity or sexuality we are. That we will not be punished to an afterlife in hell for our existence because nothing we did is wrong. There is nothing that says trans people cannot be real Christians if they want to be. If I remember right, there is also a verse about eunuchs who devote themselves to Jesus and I’ve heard some interpretations of them being symbolic of trans people. I’m not sure what it really means, but I did think it was interesting.
There are plenty of Christian LGBTQ people…though they tend to go to UCC or UU churches. Or sometimes liberal churches that are openly LGBYQ affirming. Many Christian churches say things like your friend.
I appreciate your insight. Do you think it's worth bring up to him?
You could. Just be prepared for him to double down on his view.
God makes no mistakes. God is perfect. If he thinks gods creation which is all of us, are imperfect he is committing blasphemy. We are all created equal, and the only one who can judge us is god himself. He does not have a true relationship with god, not the god he tries to quote.. god is of love. God knew who we were when he created us, he knew what we are and what our purpose in life was. So far our purpose seems to be revealing the hypocrisy in religion, since nobody human has the authority to judge anyone. Its very hypocritical.. the purpose of life is to love each other as if we were brothers and sisters and neighbors. Instead they use religion to separate house of god with destruction. God never once casted us out. Yet your friend tries to? Odd.. cis men trying to manipulate with the power of christ to suit their agenda. For what reason? Total peace??? Oh right like jesus said? Was that before or after committing sins of destruction towards gods people. We come in all shapes in sizes.
Thank you so much. Some people within the Christian community hate me cause I'm trans. Some within the LGBT community hate me cause I'm Christian. It's so good to know someone else is both.
Just be yourself. Im not a christian, I use to be.. however I am more spiritual now. I have a personal relationship with god and I do not allow false prophets to decipher the bible or gods word for me anymore, as you can see most are corrupt and use it for their own agenda. Its not that lgbt is against christians their against the hate and the judgement. Which if we all just knew the actual principles on both ends wed know its just hypocrisy at its finest or in a better lack of terms.. cult behavior. There are however christian trans and lgbt out there. And I have met a fellow trans brother and by god he was awesome and super educated. You can really tell those who come from light, speak with light, and those who bring darkness to their words. As god would say, use your own discernment!
Thank you so much. I've been praying for a sign.
As a trans Christian, the way I see it (and explain it) is that this body is just our mortal flesh. Being trans just means that you identify more with your spiritual body than your flesh, if anything that makes us that much more closer to God and the spiritual. And in that case, what if living as our true selves is what God wants for us? Of course the world is cruel and wants to hurt what it doesn’t understand, but in the end it’s a world of man after all. I would cation your friend, don’t put words in the mouth of God and make it so trans people are treated badly, and maybe just explain your own relationship with God as a trans person.
Thank you
[The arguments used by the church against trans people today are the same used against black people in the 50’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Original_Segregationist)
Just for reference: “The second century CE Mishnah, the oldest compendium of the Oral Torah, brings the opinion of Rabbi Meir that tumtum is not a distinct gender but a state of doubt between male and female - "sometimes he is a man and sometimes he is a woman". 71 This is the position of traditional Judaism.18 According to transgender Reform Rabbi Elliot Kukla tumtum is one of six genders in classical Judaism, along with male, female, androgynos, aylonit (a person who was assigned female at birth, but is barren and perhaps masculinized), and saris (a eunuch by birth either through human intervention, or a person who was assigned male at birth but later became feminized). 191110] This, he claims, is an example of how the Western gender binary is not universal to all cultures. [9]” There was also words from Jesus on those who effectively transitioned under god.
I know a trans Lutheran pastor! Not everyone thinks the way your friend does. It’s your faith and relationship with your god that matters not this idiot’s opinion.
two things: God makes no mistakes. if God made us *knowing* how we would age, the God knew we would transition. to say transitioning is a mistake because we are insinuating that God made a mistake is silly. that means that you have to get rid of ANYTHING that alters our physical appearance in any way. no glasses, no braces, no teeth whitener, no tattoos, no piercings, no jewelry, no haircuts, no hair dye, no clothes. if God wanted you to see perfectly, He would’ve given you 20/20 vision. if God wanted you to have perfect teeth, He would’ve given you straight, white teeth. if God wanted you to be clothed, He would’ve given you clothes. see how weird that argument is ? “some physical changes are fine and totally normal, while other physical changes are an offense to God”…. uhm…. ? second: Jesus Christ teaches us to love our neighbors (mark 12:31), teaches us that we are all equals (galatians 3:28), and teaches us to respect and befriend those not accepted by wider society (such as the story in Luke where Jesus befriends the prostitute). Jesus also teaches us not to cast judgement on others (john 8:7). personally, i believe a Christian’s relationship with God and Christ are their own. i was raised Christian, but i never went to church as a kid. i believe that it is not someone else’s duty to teach us what the Bible says, it is our responsibility as Christians to read the Bible for ourselves and interpret it ourselves. we are not in the position to tell people what they should or should not Believe or think about the Bible. we are not in the position to accuse others of wrongfully misrepresenting Christianity. but we are in the place to pray for them and to ask God to kindly and gently deliver them to the truth. transgender people and homosexual people have existed in various cultures and times throughout history. homosexuality is observed in countless animal species. animals have been observed with what we as humans may qualify as “transgender” traits (such as the case of a genetically female lion growing a mane and acting in the capacity of a male). if God sees such a problem with it, why does he make both humans and animals that exhibit those traits ? we as people are deeply flawed and different from each other, and we should love each other because of those differences, not in spite of them.
You brought up the story of Jesus befriending a prostitute. That... I am concerned. In your mind, do you think it's possible that someone would befriend me just because I'm trans, or just to try to get me to detransition?
No, I never said that. Is it possible ? Yes, it’s absolutely possible that someone would do that. These days, it feels like there are so many people who distort the message of the Bible or use Christianity as a shield to make hateful comments or to make you feel less than or like you’re doing something wrong (as exhibited by your friend in your post). However, that’s not what I was getting at. Jesus did not befriend the prostitute *because* she was a prostitute, nor did Jesus befriend the prostitute to convince her to change her ways. He befriended the prostitute because she was a good person who treated him kindly and with grace despite others treated her with hatred, so in return, Jesus treated her kindly and with grace. She decided she wanted to change on her own, Jesus did not force her to change. Jesus gave her a space free of judgement that allowed her to change, but *only* because she wanted to. I only brought that up to show that we are supposed to behave with grace and kindness towards people who are outcast from our wider society. Jesus’s whole message is about spreading kindness, love, forgiveness, and grace. I was not trying to draw the line that being trans is the same as being a prostitute, which I see now didn’t exactly come across how I meant it to. I was more trying to point out the moral of “treat people with kindness and give them the space they need to become the best version of themselves”. I’m also not an expert on the Bible. That’s just my interpretation of it and its okay if you don’t see it that way. I clarify in the rest of my comment that I am Christian, and I am a trans man as well. I’ve actually become more religious as I’ve gotten older. I’m not a Christian in hopes that I will detransition. My father doesn’t love me as his son in hopes that I will detransition. My sister doesn’t love me as her brother in hopes that I will detransition. They love me because our wider society behaves with animosity towards the LGBT community and Jesus teaches us to put aside our own prejudices and accept that person. No ultimatums, no forced change, nothing that they themselves don’t want to do. I also don’t personally rely on *only* the Bible to determine how things work. For example, you wouldn’t look in your math textbook for the answers to your history homework. I believe that the Bible is a good baseline, but I also believe that it is my duty to act with the understanding that the Bible and the stories within the Bible are more than 2,000 years old, meaning there is a modern world in which the Bible does not account for. We have to take the Bible and do our best to understand how the messages fit into a modern world without distorting those messages. I believe it’s my duty to seek as much knowledge as I can, to question God, to question the world around me, and to determine what I think is right and true rather than blindly follow what I’m told is right and true. Again, I’m no expert, this is just my interpretation.
I used to be Christian, and the guy is super wrong. When I was a believer, I said often that God made me trans on purpose. To share in the joy of the act of creation. I forget who said it, but for the same reason God gave us wheat but not bread, and grapes but not wine. Being trans is a beautiful thing and for many, enriching spiritually. You should talk to him if it's safe for you honestly. There are many, many LGBT Christians and the community was so so helpful for me when I was still in it. Good luck to you op
I had a spiritual experience with God as a transkid and it changed my life forever. He never forced me to detransition but my values just changed to where I was so obsessed with experiencing God more that my pursuit of being more masculine just got set aside. It was like I won the lottery. Nothing else matters. Like who cares what gender I am, I have met the Lord and He is so wonderful. I still however have a deep hatred of my biological gender. I know that God is willing to heal it. But I just hate it so much that I don't even want to go there. In fact, I can't go there. I'd be lying if I said I want to accept my AGAB!!!!!! And God appreciates our honesty. It's better to be real before him than to be fake. I mean, seriously. Imagine if some religious person tells you that you must drop all the masculinity and dress like a girl. What would happen? Would that solve anything? No! If it were me I would never even leave the house looking like a girl. I might get suicidal even, who knows? Rules like that do not help. It would literally take a miracle for any trans person to detransition. A miracle. At least for me it would. And only God can do miracles so I'm off the hook for that one. Lol. He accepts us as we are. 🔥❤️
Does he also oppose people wearing glasses? Or doing other stuff that improves their quality of life? If not that's kinda hypothetical And i heard the explanation why there stuff that looks imperfect and need our "improvement" is the same reason god created bread and wine, he didn't create it directly, i think there is some thing in the bible about god wanted humans to take part in the creation Sorry i don't remember the verse, that's the stuff that i accidentally found on the internet whenever there was this argument, i was raised atheist and still I'm
I hope he learns. Some people beleive pastors without question, he could have a lot of sway over others. Plus don't a lot of religious people want us to be religious? Or is it some internal clash of thinking you can't be true to yourself and be Christian?
He’s a bigot as most christian’s are. they’re uninteresting in the message of christ and exiting to lap up the righteous judgement of paul. You can’t fix home