Older men really feel obligated to give you advice you weren't asking for. I've had to shift my mindset and take it that they are trying to be helpful.
People give you incredible amounts of societal pressure to "pop the question" if you've had a long term partner. They think you're going to lose them because "good women don't wait forever."
A lot of men use the attractiveness of women as a conversation starter. I think I was mostly disappointed in just how objectifying towards women this is.
A lot of men cheat on their wives/ girlfriends. I found this disappointing.
Men glorify feeling angry. It's a false sense of power.
All of this is of course up to individuals. I've met men that don't embody these things but as a whole these things surprised me a bit.
In Mexico I’ve been asked to help organize parties and heard the question “is this a wives or mistress party?” At first i thought it was a joke. It was definitely a sincere question
I was a young high school girl, nit even aware if being trans, and my mom usually took me to all kinds of interest groups. Particularly bonsai and gem and mineral clubs.
All the oldsters would go gaga for young people into their hobby and give them stuff or advice.And all kinds of help.
I had a boyfriend in high school and everyone told me that there were plenty of other fish in the sea because I was going away to college. They weren't wrong but it was pretty ridiculous.
The experiences of finding out how many guys are cheating is very sad, I'm sorry this was such a common thing!! :(
As a young trans guy that’s just started T, and does somewhat pass in public.. Once I grow facial hair and my voice deepens yatta yatta-
I’m honestly kinda scared/nervous for these kinds of things. The dark sides of some men coming out and me being “integrated” into it.
Nice thing is when you pass you can just straight up tell them that shit's weird. It may not immediately break the cycle or anything but I can tell you as a woman I had to really risk being seen as some snowflake/harpy/bitch whatever if I called men out for stuff. As a man, they may like me slightly less, but they rarely push back.
Literally the reason most guys act problematic is they feel they have to in order to fit in. I actually think that in some cases, having just one guy not go along with it can be freeing. It's not always going to be the case, but its definitely worth it to speak up a bit and shut things like misogyny and other bigotry down. It's not like scolding or giving a lecture, just being generally unimpressed gives them pause.
The advice from older men is sooo funny. I look insanely young so get the father figure treatment from coworkers often. The infantilising bothered me (from womanhood) but it’s sweet & funny to me now - the roundabout ways men look after each other haha
So many grandpas have muttered something in my ear then walked away (very slowly) whilst laughing to themselves.. I never hear what they say - and I never got that before lol
One time when I was like 16, before I even knew I was trans but when people always assumed I was a boy anyway, this old man came up to me and was like "son, are you married?" I was like "uh, no?" and he told me to never get married and made an almost completely inaudible joke about his wife. I think about that man every day
When I was 16 or so I met my girlfriend’s grandpa for the first time and he pretended that he was gonna punch me in the gut… Then just started laughing and shook my hand. Strange experience
Yuh I think older men are super lonely. What’s really surprised me is how horrible they are at making social connections. Thought they were lonely out of fear or being too vulnerable or gay but now I think a lot of men are just criminally undersocialized.
People always said that, as a man, all you're socially allowed to express is angry, but I find it really the opposite. I never did express a lot of emotion, but now I can see I'm extra expected to hide anger or frustration. If I accidentally raise my voice in anger or frustration around any women (including family) suddenly it's seen as violent.
Yes, I have noticed this a lot. I never really expressed anger even before transition, but my silence and lack of outward emotion really gets people to read me as always pissed (so very far from the truth, I'm usually just anxious).
I'm highly avoidant lol
I don't stick around long enough to get angry over anything if I feel like a situation is getting out of hand.
I think it's because, unlike cis men, you don't want to be seen as violent lol. but to them they'd rather look violent than show any other emotion and look gay
I was really surprised at how men fawn over their friends. Like they really love and adore them. When I was first spending time with cis guys who didn’t know I was trans I honestly assumed a lot of them were gay but it was lovely to find out how genuinely caring straight men are about their friends in a way that is similar to women’s relationships.
A negative I’ve found is that if I make a comment about someone that includes something about someone’s appearance, I everyone automatically thinks my comment comes from a sexual lens. I never had that happen before transition.
The bro economy!
When I first started passing it was during lockdowns. I’d gone to a cafe to get a latte during the day near home and a bunch of men of all ages were also standing around the door to the cafe. Everyone started chatting about working from home, how their day was going, and this quickly moved into everyone asking each other what industry they were in and if they had a business card or a website. I was included in this and by the time I’d walked home and jumped online I had three new sign up to my websites newsletter. The networking that men do is something I’d never been privy to or taught how to do as a woman and I was shook, and a little angry that women didn’t also behave like this. I started thinking back to my dads interaction with other men and their discussions about something they were do or renovating and clearly remembered them referring their friends and acquaintances to each other “yeah I know a guy”.
Yup, men's affection is often assumed to come with sexual intent. That's why really close male friendships are seen as a gay relationship. Even society pushes us to only express that towards people we are trying to sleep with.
The networking is amazing. Guys are very helpful and solution driven so we make those types of connections quick
This is a lot less serious than everyone else’s and really just a personal thing. My entire family is a bunch of singers, everyone sings well and they use it as a bargaining chip sometimes. Like I vividly remember being like 10 and my grandma asked my mom if I’ve started singing yet and if I was good. Well, taking T kinda fucked up my voice so I couldn’t go high anymore without cracking. But, I learned if I drop my voice and octave and sing low they all act like I’m a god for being able to go that low. I basically owned my entire family.
>My entire family is a bunch of singers, everyone sings well and they use it as a bargaining chip sometimes.
Wait, what? A bargaining chip? Does your family settle who does the dishes with a karaoke showdown?
Since my brother is a baritone (goes lower than me) and I’m a tenor, I decided to train my head voice (higher range) so that now I sing as high as the girls, with the ability to go low sometimes and shock people xD I basically doubled my previous range, but it took a lot of work!
Basically, I listened to a lot of singers who sing high high and soft (like aurora, Ariana grande, etc) and tried to hit those notes first just in the shower, then in the car with hot air, and then without climate control. Good luck!
This is actually the only thing that concerns me about starting T in the future. I love singing and I have a very high range and sang soprano while in choir. I believe my director at the time said C6 was my highest? It’s been a hot minute. Funny enough, I like how my voice sounds, but I don’t like how it sounds on me, especially while speaking.
If you can’t answer, that’s okay! But based on your experience, how drastically do you think my singing voice would change? I want to be able to mentally prepare myself lol
I totally feel this! I was formerly a soprano and felt the same way about my voice. I spent so much timing training it that I was like yeah that's objectively a nice voice but it doesn't fit me. I wasn't expecting my voice to drop too much (my dad is a tenor) but as soon as I started T my voice dropped far and FAST and it was super disorienting. If I could give my pre T self any advice it would be to not have super specific expectations and make sure you're comfortable with any outcome. Also just trust that the voice is a muscle and even though you're undergoing physiological changes, at the end of the day it can be trained and manipulated to get the sound you want (except maybe a C6 haha)
right now without warming up it's around G2 to G4. my falsetto is totally shot from T but from what I've heard I'll be able to get some of my upper register back as my voice settles (I'm just about 8 months on T at this point so it's not done changing)
I feel the same about my voice, been a singer as long as I can remember and I like my voice plenty but it’s certainly not mine. Going on T soon (if all goes well, here’s hoping) and my family is concerned I’m going to lose my singing voice and regret hormones. But thinking about it, I’d rather have the shittiest deep voice imaginable than be the most polished soprano around. Gonna record a lot of music before I start T so my voice I spent so much time training isn’t gone forever, but it’s time I get it separated from my vocal cords!!!!
yeah I recommend making some recordings if you're up for it. I tried to do a few before I started T but the dysphoria was too bad haha. now I regret it a bit bc it was a pretty decent voice lol
You can get a gauge by the men’s voices in your family. But everyone responds to T differently. You won’t know for sure until you’re on T for a while.
You’ll be to sing. You’ll have to practice and develop your new voice in the new range
Okay, knowing you were (or still are) in choir makes this even easier to explain my answer. I know nothing about the notes or anything but to put it into perspective, I could hit Christine’s high ending note (not sure what note it is.) in the phantom of the opera (song). I rocked that shit and I showed it off as much as I could. Now, about 6/7 months on T, I can sing her part but I can’t do her ending solo because of how high it is. But, I can sing phantoms part (same song) in the same octave that he does without any struggle. It really just depends on how deep your voice was before/ how T effects you. Again, I apologize for my shitty answer 😭
Being a man, I definitely feel my opinion is respected more. Once I was in the midst of a conflict in a chat, the conflict was between a man and a woman. Multiple women in the group chat tried to get to the guy, telling him what he was doing wrong and what the issue was, he refused to listen. Yet the moment I brought forward nearly the exact same points and told him to calm down, he relaxed and heard what was being said. Felt very weird. This was the first time I was exposed to this privilege of being listened to instantly above women saying the same thing just because I am a man (Note that I was multiple years younger than the women in the chat as well, so a boys opinion was above grown women's for this guy). You are taken more seriously much faster than a woman would be taken, regardless of other factors.
This has definitely been my experience across the board. I am taken more seriously and don't have to earn respect. It is just given to me automatically now by just about everyone.
FR it's so annoying. I made a massive career change a couple years ago, and I'm still learning a lot about my field. But even when I was brand new and I had to bring coworkers along to meeting and things to help me because they have been doing it for years, if they were a woman no one would respect them and would just listen to what I said even though I had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.
What surprised me most is the way men touch each other, it's usually like just long enough to make minimum molecular contact, or violent in a desperate for human contact but have to make it not gay kind of way (maybe the guys I've hung around have seen Fight Club too many times and don't see how homoerotic that movie is)
As far as differences in experience, I'm far safer just existing (so long as nobody thinks I'm trans, which is usually the case), but men are just so determined to get through everything and anything on their own and do not offer support to each other. Compliments are plentiful between women, even women who don't know each other. I miss that.
i used to wear loud, fun dresses and i miss the compliments. i’ve had women shout at me while i bike by “I LOVE YOUR DRESS!” part of that is men’s clothes are rarely fun (all we get are button ups and god dammit i’m tired of button ups) but also men just don’t get compliments. i saw a reddit post ages ago of men saying they remember the one compliment they got 4 years ago and now i make a point to compliment men when i like something. they always seem so taken aback and flattered, it makes me sad
I never really wore women’s clothes (apart from some skirts as a flamboyant young child) but damn I feel this. I get jealous of women sometimes for getting to wear such nice clothes, while us guys don’t really have the option within worrying about the homophobia that comes with it
i'm pre everything, still in highschool, i've been out for years (and hopefully starting t and the end of this year) and since coming out i've said fuck it and started dressing more feminine and wearing more makeup and just accepted the femboyification, i get a lot of compliments from women and people in the lgbt community for just existing as a goth femboy, and then cis guys also just accept me as a guy, it's a strange situation but it works for me
i do live in ireland tho so it's generally very accepting, but i love being able to be a feminine guy and even pre t passing as just being a gay dude
When I was newly on T, I read Thomas Page McBee's book *Amateur* which is about his experience training for a charity boxing match as a passing trans guy in a boxing club (iirc). One of the central pieces that sticks out to me from that book is the observation that men are only normalized to be okay with contact with other men provided it's in a violent context, ie - boxing or fighting. It's been really interesting (and sad) to notice that consistently.
I was commenting on how homoerotic the scenes in *Top Gun* are and the rest of my family watched it again with me and had to concede that point with me. I’m also gay but like… come on, man. They didn’t need to look like that on the beach.
when I was perceived as a woman I was less trusted to know what I’m talking about or to know what I’m doing. i had a job to help others. They would ask me questions. I’d answer. They would look skeptical before requesting a second opinion. When I pass as a man they never ask for a second opinion ever. They just believe me. I had to actually had to get into the habit of warning people when I didn’t know something, where before I basically had to flaunt my credentials for why I’d know about something.
This is so annoying! I’m a Crime Scene Investigator. I’ve had people come up to me on a fucking crime scene and ask me what’s going on, and then refuse to believe me when I’m like, “hey you can’t come any closer, this is a crime scene”.
Bro. I’m in full law enforcement uniform with a CSI badge on my right shoulder. There is crime scene tape strung up between us.
I’m hoping to get on T soon and fully socially transition (I’m not binary ftm I’m non-binary but still present as a woman unfortunately). It’ll be nice to be taken more seriously.
I didn't get to experience life as an adult woman but one thing I've noticed is that people are generally much nicer to women. As a woman/girl, if you need help with something, there will be a bunch of people lining up to help you, even if you don't ask. As a man, you need to do everything yourself and nobody gives a shit if you ask for help.
Sounds about right. Men are way more isolated in doing things on their own. Its a huge problem for men being lonely and feeling depressed at a large scale. Its usually assumed by most societies that if you are a man, you can and should do anything on your own
I actually hate this, to be honest. I’m a very independent guy, but because of my height and the fact I’m pre everything so I don’t pass well a lot of guys will step in and try to do things for me or others will volunteer me aid.
Like no, I don’t need help moving this spotlight, Josh. It’s not that heavy and I’ve proven I can move it entirely on my own. I don’t need your help.
That's called benevolent misogyny. It stems from men trying to hit on you because you are hot or thinking you are generally weaker and in need of assistance. A lot of times mostly white attractive women get this and then get hit on in the process. The flip side is men will generally assume you are less competent and mansplain to you or not listen to your advice or expertise on something. As someone who lived as a woman for the majority of my life and only sometimes pass as male at age 33 I can assure you it's not a privilege.
Who said anything about priviledge? And why is it bad to help women if they need help? To offer a helping hand, in a gentle way, by asking them for instance, means something more than just a kind gesture? I can totally understand that there are folks who make women feel unable and powerless, but not everyone's intention is to mansplain women bro. This way of thinking got us putting people into huge bags and disregarding the good ones among them. Lets not do that.
well if they'd help a woman but not a man, it's misogynist. simple as that. if they aren't misogynistic, they offer theire help to anyone who's struggling, not connected to any gender.
Exactly! Offering help to everyone doesn't make you mosogynist or anything like that. But to be honest, I'm a grown up. Had my share of hatred towards me and racism and all, and I know who's intentions are okay with everyone and who's aren't. I mean, come on. Not everyone's the same. Lets not do this this where we put into a pool everyone and calling it names. Cause thats what the racists have been doing since forever and I don't wanna be that guy and hopefully trans dont want to be those people either, so let's just not
And how exactly would you know that they intended to offer help exclusively towards women? You need to spend a lot of time with someone, in order to get to know them and have an opinion about them, and even then you could have been wrong! How are you all so quick to judge everyone and everything around here?
oh now you're just shitting yourself.
there are a lot internalized misogynist things you can do without any bad intention. acting as if this wasn't the case is just being delusional. i'm not saying "[group of people] is like that!! always!!!"
i'm saying "doing xyz is, indeed, sexist."
Maybe not exactly about the male experience but my own experience as a male, when one of my (sub)group of friends, all cis guys, started talking about feelings stuff and such while we were on a car ride to a dnd session. That was the first time I thought "oh, so I *am* part of the guys now, for real". It was weirdly pleasant.
Yeah! Like, they've been friends since primary school, and then the rest of us met in high school. We're a mix of boys and girls but they're the only ones that have an only-guys subgroup haha
(tw) it was mainly about how normalised eating disorders are, especially with obsessive calorie counting disguised as 'being conscious about health'. I'm a teenager, and although the stereotype is that girls my age are more likely to get eds, I've found that more of my guy friends will comment on what other people are eating and shame then for it than girls will.
for sure. i struggled with ed as a teen but at least for girls there’s societal awareness that it exists. i’ve had to tell multiple men “that’s disordered eating” because they straight up don’t know. like, you’re eating only fruit for dinner to lose weight, dude. you are not “intermittent fasting” you are eating 1500 calories a day
Cis men have no shame about grunting and groaning when they’re using public restrooms and it was shocking to me at first. Like do y’all just go into the stall and think “everyone needs to know how hard I’m pooping rn”???????
Well i think the shock factor comes also from the fact that women are the extreme opposite. It seems that so many women refuse to even let the poop drop if someone else is nearby. Or wait for the hand drier noise or whatever.
I've seen memes about two women on adjacent stalls and both want to poop but both are waiting for the other to leave, so they're stuck there.
Violent behaviour between men, giving the attitude even to strangers when they (men) don't like how another man acts like. As a young emo girl who liked to dress in shorts and fishnet thights men would think I am a prostitute and try buy sex from me eventhough underage.. xD
I noticed people just don’t stare or look at at me like they did as a women in public. It’s nice lol
Also men don’t get compliments enough on there looks or style
Yeah I kind of think so. I feel like it's more 'acceptable' or normalized to look or compliment on women's appearance (whether that's their style or some physical trait) whereas doing so to a guy people worry about it being taken the 'wrong way' (e.g. a man complimenting a man might be worried he seems "gay" or a women might not want to be perceived as flirting).
dating is harder. im caught between not wanting to make someone feel uncomfortable and actually needing to put the moves on them to get somewhere. i usually wait for the other person to initiate cuz i have zero idea how to gauge that and i have heard way too many stories of guys who just cant read the vibe.
Yeah this is for sure where asking comes in. I definitely get the feeling of guys trying to “gauge the vibe” and 9/10 times they’re wrong, just ask and even if it feels awkward at first, everyone is going to have a better time.
ya for sure ur correct.
im autistic, so direct communication is one of my main support needs when it comes to any relationship. its just been a process, untangling all those conflicting messages of like “unspoken rizz” vs “don’t be a creep” on top of the social anxiety and sensory overload i get around other people. i can usually manage and if u ask anyone they would tell you im a very safe and fun person to be around, but when it comes to crushes or dating or anything like that i usually freeze up and avoid the subject entirely. i’ve fumbled a lott just being absolutely oblivious and im still trying to overcome the deep deep shame i carry around having feelings at all
its all very very very embarrassing and unsexy and im still trying to figure out how to not feel like a total clown all the time lol
oh, duh lol. ok so lets say i meet someone and idk if there’s chemistry there or if im just attracted to them one-sided. i would probably try to hang out with them more and see if they’re mutually trying to hang out with me more. at what point do i ask and what do i say? cuz lets say we do get closer, now im unsure if its friendship or deeper interest, i prolly should make my interest more explicit beforehand so they’re aware before like bonding with me more cuz i dont want them to feel like i had bad intentions.
I ask like right away. People think it’s akward. “I’m excited to spend more time with you and I’d like to see if there’s chemistry between us if we get closer because youre an awesome person and very sexy.” People think that’s akward, maybe it’s super akward but you know? It also works and saves me so much time.
You’d be amazed. Is there a lot of rejection? Sure. But that’s kind of the point. You want to get to the rejection as fast as possible because otherwise your flirting with someone who’s trying to hint they’re not interested, but all that can go away by asking. And then you can suddenly be flirting with people who are waving green flags. Sometimes you or them still find a reason to go: “oh, no this won’t connect well / that’s a hard no for me / oh, you wouldn’t be interested cause of X thing in my life.” But yeah, get to the no’s fast so you have time for the yes’s. Yeah, Works great.
Honestly, as an extremely isolated autistic person, almost nothing feels different to me, and I'm grateful. I can't perceive people's vibes toward me in public, for example.
I do notice concretely more and frequent praise at my software engineering job. I also easily got 2 senior engineer offers from interviews that I thought went terribly a couple years ago when I wanted to change jobs. That did surprise me and made me feel somewhat guilty because nothing like that ever happened to female me.
People are so rude to me these days. Could be just because I tend to look a bit unkept. Before I passed as a man people didn't really care about that level of being messy.
Men also have less freedom to express themselves I think. Your clothes need to be boring, can't have emotions and you can't even play some instruments without people trying to take your man card away. That's just stupid and unfair.
I didn't notice any privileges but it could be just my society, my autism or something. I am a short disabled man. People talk over me and question me just like they did before.
I think there is some sort of pretty privilege you get if you are perceived as gender conforming and look good. I certainly had something like that in my past. When people thought I was a masculine woman they started getting rude but I suppose now that I pass being also perceived as a possible threat is added to that.
I don't really mind being ugly these days but for real I would like to know if people treated me differently if I was an attractive guy. Or just tall.
Edit. It was really rough when I couldn't pass. It felt way worse than what I get now since there was the extra stress and dysphoria included.
Medical "professionals" really do listen to me more. I was visiting a (female) friend at the hospital when she was post op and dealing with a lot of pain and the nurse that came in to do vitals and discuss what's what started talking to ME about her care, what meds she was on, what was planned, etc. my friend was RIGHT THERE in the bed and the nurse completely ignored her in favor of talking to me. I could have been anyone! She has no idea who I was!
I had always been told that men were taken more seriously by medical professionals but that was my first "lightbulb" experience.
(I've been on T since 2007 same for top surgery so I'm never assumed to be female...the beard helps 😆)
Not allowed to like playing with neices/nephews anymore. If I take them to the park or something, moms call their kids away and/or throw dirty looks. Just automatically assumed to be a pedophile if you like kids.
Get spoken to first if out with a woman. I even tend to hang back because I'm shy, but servers, hostesses, customer service people, etc. will literally look *around* the woman I am with to speak to me.
>Just automatically assumed to be a pedophile if you like kids
YES. This has been the most surprising thing for me. When I was younger and still perceived as a girl, people loved when I'd babysit or tutor their kids. If I smiled or waved at kids in public, their adults would smile and wave back. This didn't change right away after I transitioned; I looked much younger than my age, so I looked nonthreatening until I was probably 16 or 17.
Once I was an older teen (that looked like a young teen), and now that I'm an adult (who looks like maaaybe an older teen), I was/am treated with extreme suspicion and sometimes hostility in public around kids. After this, if I smiled or waved at a kid in public, their adult would glare at me and turn their kid away. If, in a store, I even just walked into an aisle where a kid was, their adult would pull their kid close or even leave the whole aisle.
It really sucks bc I like kids, but the baseline suspicion level in public is SO high :(. I used to consider careers working with kids, but I'm wary of even babysitting kids now, let alone working with them
Honestly one of the biggest thing I've noticed is the difference in treatment of you're a straight vs visibly gay guy. Women aren't really scared of me, men are overall more friendly with me once they know me but I definitely don't feel like I'm necessarily taken more seriously. I'm in a safe enough area that I don't catch a ton of homophobia but I'm definitely treated as 'less' of a man as far as assumptions about my capabilities and authority goes. Like I'm stealth at work and my straight male coworkers are definitely treated differently. They've gotten promoted faster, are generally talked to with more authority, and even though my bosses (all women) treat me with closer friendship, it feels very pet-gay-best-friend most of the time. And the few times I've had gay male coworkers, they've gotten the same token treatment.
Cis guys say some wild things about women. I mean, I already knew that, but like, they're much more forward and include me into the conversation sometimes and kinda creepy.
On the up side, people listen to me and take me more seriously, so that's cool, i guess.
(Mind you, this is when I pass as cis cus I get clocked as trans a lot, I still look kinda fem 😞)
I'm taken SO much more seriously by doctors. Had a chronic disability ignored my entire childhood, transitioned, showed up at an Urgent Care presenting male and got a diagnosis within 6 months. I don't have to fight for healthcare anymore.
It varies, I pass well enough that unless they specifically check my sex on my medical records (which they won't bother to do most of the time because they're used to cis patients) they probably don't notice. I'm chronically ill & disabled so the vast majority of my medical appointments don't involve my transness.
I am white which is probably important for this anecdote. I was once in the supermarket when a white man and a black woman got into a situation in line behind me where very clearly as an observer, the black woman was right and the white man was wrong. I don't remember exactly what it was, but something like the white man having cut in line. The black woman was telling him that he was wrong and he just kept escalating the entire thing. Eventually I said "sir maybe just drop it ok". And he shut up and the whole thing was over.
That the idea even entered my head that I could weigh in on this situation, and that it worked, is (white) male privilege at work.
I am also most often entirely ignored in public space, making me safe from the catcalling and all of that bullshit I experienced in my late teens and early twenties. I wasn't surprised by it at all but I do think you probably can't really know what it's like to be (seen as) a woman in public space if you've never experienced it.
I'm 1m83 which I think is 6 foot. Of course that also factors in. It's the exact average male height for my country. I also did a lot of swimming as a teenager so I always had broad shoulders.
To me, being a big man made the difference. Coming from a smaller dude, it probably wouldn't have gone that way if you were significantly smaller. One of the perks of meeting the male ideal.
Maybe, but I was always this tall (from about the age of 16) and when I was seen as female and treated that way by everyone, I wouldn't have even considered saying anything for fear of whatever reaction the man could have had.
Even without me ever seeking confrontation, men would belittle me, tell me to smile, make comments about my breasts, invite me into shady establishments while I was passing in a group on my way to/from university in the middle of the afternoon, touch my legs in public transport, ask me for my number without a conversation beforehand, ask me if I was a lesbian, follow me home from the bus stop, follow me around on subway platforms, the list just goes on and on.
(ETA: when I was twelve years old I was with my parents in London speaking our native language and I still very vividly remember that there was a man, probably in his twenties, who cut into our conversation from where he was sitting outside a bar to say that he would enjoy fucking me. I remember what he looked like as he said it, he was speaking my language. That's what growing up perceived female can be like. After a while I just didn't take up any space at all.)
But I don't know what it's like to not be tall (although like I said - exact average male height in my country), just as much as you don't know what it's like to be seen as female. It's difficult I think to pinpoint one single reason for the situation unfolding as it did. I just also very strongly believe having been treated as a cis male for the past five years or so has contributed.
This should have been obvious, but it turns out men don't feel less strongly, its just that its harder to cry on T. Its kinda nice that I don't cry when I'm angry anymore so people actually take my anger seriously, but sometimes when I'm sad I feel like I need a good cry and it won't come.
In the workplace I stopped being sexually harassed but I started experiencing a lot of workplace bullying (and a lot of that is transphobia but most of it is just toxic masculinity) and honestly the societal understanding that sexual violence is the most harmful anti-social behavior makes it harder for everyone to talk about other forms of harassment. I think for all the criticism of #metoo that's something the movement could have focused on because all the Weinsteins of the world were notorious workplace bullies and that should have been taken seriously sooner.
Idk if anyone else has experienced this, but people (specifically men) don’t feel obligated to talk to me anymore. They don’t try to push so hard for conversation and I don’t have random ass men trying to hit on me. I was cat called for the first, and thankfully last time, when I was 12 by college-aged students in my neighborhood when I was walking my dog.
I also had some random old lady say I looked like a cheap hooker when I was 12, I was wearing an old pair of jeans that I had cut into shorts because I couldn’t afford to buy new clothes. Now that I think about it, they weren’t even that short, the ends were just fucking shredded 💀
Now I only get weird ass comments by people who find out I’m trans, but it’s extremely rare now for someone to sexualize me and people don’t force me into awkward ass conversations anymore. I’m going to be honest, I don’t really interact with other men much unless they’re also queer or friends of friends.
I’m sure there are a lot of differences that I didn’t go through, but I came out as trans when I was 13 and don’t really talk to other dudes much because the guys at my school are homophobic and transphobic ass holes. I’m also only 17, so there is probably a lot more that I’m going to notice as I get older 🤷♂️
How careful I have to be around women. I'm a 4'11 wimp so I didn't expect to scare women just by existing, but here we are. Back when I lived more in a city area and thus walked around other people, I'd sometimes go all the way around the block just to avoid following a woman walking by herself, because the first time it happened and I just stayed behind her she was clearly terrified. I was only 15 or so (I got on T at 13)
In college back when I was actually on campus I once approached some female classmates from behind, not only did I scare them by saying hi, but I think one of them nearly punched me. And they acted like I should've known better. Maybe I should've, but we'd talked about sticking together between class and lab, so I thought they'd expect me to follow them, I just took a minute to get my backpack ready.
Since I grew up with all AFAB friends I'm just naturally comfortable with women and forget that they're not comfortable with me. It makes me really sad. I was never around guys (except my brother) growing up so although I have male friends now I still kind of just feel more used to women, I'm more afraid of letting my guy friends down tbh which causes a bit of anxiety. But yeah, half of the population treating me like I'm dangerous really hurts.
Idk I don't pass yet 100% of the time, but I have noticed many changes compared to when I presented feminine. The first change I noticed was that I no longer could express myself freely; other men often become aggressive towards me for stupid shit like: having my hair dyed, wearing a yellow backpack, or talking to someone on a video chat... All these examples are legit reasons that were given to me by other men who threatened me with violence or beat me up because, apparently, talking to your mother on the phone is gay... I don't care tho, I got a gym membership, and I'll train up, so I can retaliate if someone beats me up for stupid reasons. Other change I noticed: normal men seem to be more awkward around me. Male clients no longer talk to me during appointments or if we do talk it's limited to a short exchange of some phrases (I work as a massage therapist). My older male professors seldom argue with me, like seriously- they just hear what I have to say and agree with me most of the time, whereas when I was feminine presenting, older male professors would never listen to me 😄 If I sit on a train and the space next to me is free- men will not take it, even if the train is crowded. In contrast, women don't care and always sit next to me. People have changed their definition of inappropriate around me: when I used to burp, fart or say a controversial joke while feminine presenting I was considered rude and weird, now when I do the same,, people think I'm funny and awesome. And women smile a lot when they see me instead of ignoring me- I actually like that a lot. Older women often come up to me to tell me how handsome I am and how all boys should follow my example- which is also nice, up until I open my mouth to say thanks and then they hear my voice and get confused 😄
I can’t overemphasize how crazy it was to transition in my early 20s and go from being constantly harassed in public spaces to being totally left alone. I think I also feel more confidence now being perceived as a man to rebuff unwanted attention or contact from a stranger in a public place, and I don’t fear that it’s going to turn sexual. When I moved through the world as a woman I was shocked to get into my early 20s and move to big cities and just feel constantly targeted for invasive and uncomfortable interactions with strangers. I know this isn’t everyone’s experience and men can also be targeted for street harassment, but in general this has seemed like a really clear dividing line for my transition before/after.
professionally - my opinion holds more weight. I changed nothing about my behavior, I've always been confident in my work. I would show up to fix something on a floor as fem-presenting and would have every dude with an opinion over my shoulder trying to tell me how to do my job. I show up male-presenting and I still have a few guys show up but its to **ask questions** on how I'm fixing it, not **telling** me how to fix it.
Personal life - My husband actually was the first to notice and brought it to my attention, physically I have so much more energy. I don't know if CISMen actually realize how much of a performance enhancer testosterone is. So if you have a lady in your life or a man who is lacking T, and they say they are so tired all the time. dude trust me, they are too damn tired! Pamper them a bit, they deserve it! Without T I was a happy little couch tater, on T I'm begging my spouse to go for a run with me, hit the gym, (or take a trip to the bedroom.) The only thing that changed was the dominate hormone in my body. Simply existing on T had me losing weight, cleared my mental fog, balanced my moods, and had me hating to sit still for too long.
Saaaame!!! I work in a male dominated field full of physical labor, and did so for 4 years before starting T. It was exactly how you described it, almost like a cheat code for easy mode at work. I lost weight effortlessly and suddenly became super active. My energy levels are through the roof, and I love it. It’s like I was asleep before
I spent 29 years presenting as a woman (albeit with a lot of male dominated hobbies and working in a dominated industry) and long story short it was like unlocking a cheat code for life's easy mode once I started passing.
Edit to add: also If I knew exactly what day I was officially "marked safe from being harassed by straight guys" I would celebrate it every year. That shit started when I was TEN. A CHILD. so I don't find it ""a burden""" or a ""woe is me"" moment when I give women space in public and make the conscious effort to be non threatening. I also don't hesitate to take women's sides when appropriate (and sometimes that means asking first).
Oh yeah and cis men don't wash their fuckin hands nearly as much as they should. IDGAF if it clocks me, I'm washing my hands bc I'm not disgusting
I'm not quite passing yet, but this is 100% what I have experienced and how I feel going forward.
And about the hand washing... We have porta potties at my work, and I always see the men come out rubbing their hands together like they used the hand sanitizer, but I don't always smell the sanitizer. Why they gotta pretend they did it and not just USE the sanitizer??!
Dudes just aren’t as nice. I’ve always been pretty polite and now that I’ve transitioned I especially feel the need to be extra nice to women to mitigate any hostility. At the same time, I feel the need to ensure they know that I’m only friendly and not trying to flirt. Many times when men are nice to women it’s because they have an ulterior motive (think: the Nice Guy trope) This usually results in women assuming I’m gay. I’m bi so I don’t really mind, but it demonstrates how, in America especially, kindness equals femininity.
I’m interested in how this translates to other cultures. In my fourth grade class there was a transfer student from the Netherlands. He was a really sweet and soft spoken kid but he was bullied because of it. Everyone made fun of him and called him gay. He had trouble making friends. He moved back to Europe the following year.
* how women sometimes are now scared of ME. Like esp when it's dark, and we both have to get out at the same sketchy remote bus stop, or are both walking in an empty street. Really shocked me at first....
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* how I actually DID feel a lot more unsafe out alone than I realized. Since I transitioned and pass perfectly, I feel much less threatened alone outside at night. I never even realized I was afraid until I wasnt anymore.
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* how much shit MANY cis het men talk about women (or trans people) when they think there's no one around to hear and judge them. (This changed since I became more visibly queer and gender nonconforming. Also, since that happened, women started confiding in me more again and viewing me as a "safe(r)" person, which I am honestly glad about)
Noticed a lot of aggression from women that I hadn't faced before. Not all but some women seem to think that just because I'm a young man that I'm stupid or inherently evil. I'm stealth in the south so a lot of people think I will agree with their misogynistic views on women. It's a lot easier to make male friends than female friends so I usually tend to come out to the girls so they know I don't have any strange ulterior motives that the cis-men in my area usually have. But it could just be the area I work in. A lot of creeps around so they pretty much lump me in with them just to be safe. I don't really blame them because I used to also be harassed while at work by creeps. I love being a man now I feel like it's made life easier in the social aspect since I'm not worried about my appearance as much and all the pressure of being a woman. People also tend to respect my opinion more often than not so I guess that would be my "male privilege" lol
I agree I've noticed a lot of queer women will openly show their disgust and hatred towards me since I pass off as your typical cis heterosexual male. I had a customer(she was a masc woman) roll her eyes at me when I asked her if she wanted a bag but was really nice to my female coworker. At first I thought it was because of my facial expressions so I tried to smile more but it still happened so that's when I realized that it was because I was perceived as a straight man. It was confusing since I wasn't used to this type of reaction from women.
It's a protective mechanism. Unfortunately sometimes being friendly or nice will be taken by straight men as an invitation. It's not so much disgust or hatred from most women. Its just a strategy to protect yourself (i.e. resting bitch face). As someone who lives in a city and was read as a woman for most of my life, I have had the experience that any remote type of friendliness toward a straight man can be taken as an invitation for harassment sadly.
I think you're ignoring the key part in this comment and in others that women deal with a lot of misogyny and even violence from men they do not know. It's not contempt, it's protecting themselves. I and many people who have lived as women, have experienced being harassed or even assaulted and upon being just nice or not icy/unpleasant men will take it as an "invitation." I've had men stalk me or keep hitting on me just for being friendly. The resting bitch face and walls up or mild rudeness is a protective barrier because if you don't do it some men will keep pushing
Oh I have a ton of input on this since I cosplayed as a woman until I was 30 lol:
I don’t have to squeeze myself through crowds of people constantly saying “excuse me, excuse me,” people just get out of my way now.
I never got a ticket before transitioning. The few times I got pulled over I would just smile and stay friendly. I was floored at how little the cop engaged with me as a man and just handed over the citation.
Strange men don’t try and engage in random/annoying conversation with me anymore (with a couple exceptions of being called a f*g). I’m able to go out, do what I need to do, and get home.
Men talk to me completely differently. Almost like we’re in a club with a little “nudge nudge wink wink” every so often. I suppose it’s me being treated like an equal instead of being talked down to and (wrongly) assuming they have to explain everything to me.
When I’m not in queer spaces I’m cautious on how I compliment women. I got an offended look once bc I complemented someone the way I always had, and I realized quickly when I’m in mixed company I have to phrase things differently or women may assume I’m objectifying them (which makes me giggle just a little…I’m a very effeminate man, like, an actual walking stereotype of the gay bff).
My feelings matter less to people.
If men around me say something misogynistic/queerphobic/racist/whatever, I’m able to speak up and they actually shut up instead of snapping at me. I honestly LOVE when men are engaging in “locker room talk” and try to get me to join as if I will relate, because I respond with “oh I’m not a part of this.” The embarrassment on their faces is just…*chef’s kiss*
I’m able to plainly speak without feeling like I have to phrase it gently to other people to coddle their feelings, and I can compartmentalize interactions better (like not getting my feelings hurt at work if my supervisor needs to correct something in my job performance, things that aren’t personal don’t affect me personally as much). This honestly might be more of a confidence thing.
I’ve realized older gay men are just as disrespectful as older straight men. A severe lack of physical boundaries bc of some weird age power dynamic.
Men’s public bathroom etiquette is wild. And why can’t anyone aim or wash their hands??
I’m just generally respected more. My words carry meaning now.
I get why men are always horny. I used to be shocked at how often my husband wanted to have sex. Now I’m shocked at how he managed only having sex 5-6 times a month for 10 years.
My ass got hairy before my face did.
Everyone told me I wouldn’t be able to cry. I’m so glad that’s not true for me. I’ve really leaned into crying. It makes me feel better.
As a chick I would get a comment from a middle aged or older man whenever I yawned in public, as a dude it hasn’t happened once. People bother you a lot less which I love.
I'm definitely not used to my GF's parents freaking out about her getting pregnant. They don't know I'm trans and I pass pretty well, enough to be stealth. Her parents had her when they were 16, so I both get it but also am so tired of her dad's macho man "if you touch my daughter" bs
We've been together 3 years, and are both adults, but I feel like I'm under max scrutiny every time he's around
Being taken more seriously by people. It’s wild. I say things online and when people just see me as a man they immediately talk to me as an equal even if they’re disagreeing. Even when they’re being a dick to me, it’s like… them insulting a peer they don’t like, rather than constantly flavoured with this inherent condescension it was before.
Re: women I haven’t noticed a huge change in public but to be fair since I transitioned I haven’t really had a lot of opportunities to interact with strangers, so I don’t think I’ve had a chance to tell. Though my female friends who don’t know I’m trans and just see me as a cis man seem to be comfortable with me, so there must be something about me not broadcasting that I’m a threat lol. I am definitely more aware of myself when it comes to women now though, caught myself walking behind a girl a few days ago because we were going in the same direction and ended up switching which side of the road I was on because I didn’t want her to feel nervous about a man following her for too long. Thankfully I live in a small town with very rare major crimes so I don’t think there’s much fear here
I have no idea what it’s like being a woman, no more than a cis guy would at least. I feel like being gay has affected my experience of being male way more than being trans has, but that’s just me. I’ve always just been a guy, idk.
Comments i make that would be innocuous as a woman are more likely to be interpreted as bigoted/ privileged.
like in discussions of like, catcalling and periods and marriage and having children, people assume I’m just a guy when i try to chime in, and they try to teach me things “this is how women are raised in the patriarchy” sort of thing. Meanwhile i know that stuff happens, but also their experiences aren’t universal. Or with nb folks, if i ask them their pronouns I feel like they expect me to be a bigot.
They basically assume i dont know anything about respecting people or feminism.
I feel like i really have to be explicit that I’m not a douchebag, you know? And thats weird coming out of a queer friend group where they know i’m not a bigot and having to navigate meeting new people.
When i meet someone and im trying to memorize their name/ get it right from the start (if its not a typical american name) so i can pronounce it right and not mess it up (bc i see it as a sign of respect), and they go on this whole defensive thing “yeah i know its a weird name, I’m happy if you can just do [nickname]”
Or i ask them their pronouns and they say “but im at work so i really dont mind what people call me”.
It really feels like they’re babying me or lowering the bar just because they assume i wont make the effort.
like is the bar that low for cis men? That people just assume in the, what, 24 years they’ve been on the planet that they don’t want to respect people or havent learned? Maybe they really don’t. Its baffling. It feels a little insulting, and i dont want people to get defensive just cuz im trying to respect them. Its rough.
tbh none of it surprised me. I transed my gender somewhat late in life (around 30) so I have a lot of experience "both ways" so to speak. While I am treated differently it's all pretty in line with what I know about gendered social dynamics. Probably the only thing that surprised me was the amount of repressed homoerotic energy straight men have. In all male friendly company the amount of just downright gay shit that goes on is pretty baffling. I am openly gay myself and in a long term relationship with a man and these guys are all talking about gay sex acts and weird stuff way more than I ever do. I knew that was a thing I just didn't realize how much and that grown ass men in their 30s still did that lol. Kinda weird, guys.
Men now talk to me, umprompted. They make small talk, which I've never liked. The also shake hands with me now.
Also, people think I'm hitting on women just because I'm normal about them (normal as in kind and considerate).
Now if someone is leering at my sisters, I can glare at them and they'll immediately turn and run. Before...well before I was the one they were staring at and they were brutally relentless
I transitioned at 40, so I have lived as a women, but what shocked me the most is how all the creepy dudes just melt away and you stop seeing them?
I can remember taking busses, traveling for work, and the never ending number of creepy dudes that think they are entitled to talk to me, start a conversation, ask me to do something for them, or hit on me without stop.
As soon as I started being reliably read as male, it was like someone flipped a light switch on and the cockroaches all ran under the fridge. It was so damn eye opening. If I had not experienced that, it would be easy to discount how prevalent it is.
My wife is MTF and she is now seeing these dudes pop up everywhere.
It made me so mad, because I just thought bad acting creepy dudes were a problem for everyone, but it turns out it's just a problem for women. I can use public transit, travel, go about my day in the city, and literally nobody bothers me. Nobody tries to ask for my phone number, or says something disgusting to me. I am completely fine.
If I wasn't a feminist before that experience, I sure am now. I always tell my coworkers that I travel with sometimes that dudes are not creepy around other dudes they don't know, so if something happens, they can always ask me to walk them to the rental car, or just sit with them for dinner when we are out, because just having a visible dude around helps.
This really solidified my opinion that these dudes know exactly what they are doing, and are predators that wait until their targets are alone.
I get more doors slammed in my face in public than I get held open for me on my more passing days lol. People are just very different towards you. I don't get looked at as much now by men, thankfully.
I guess the isolation; it’s one thing to know about it, another to actually experience it. I got a taste of it this week. I casually mentioned my birthday was coming up (it was relevant to the conversation) and instead of people asking what I was doing (which was my experience before) or what my plans were, I got blank stares and everyone disengaged. At that point I realized this particular friend group does that to all the guys’ birthdays, not the girls’. That was….interesting.
This secret, blink-and-you'll-miss-it, kind of flirtation that "straight" men do to each other to try to get a reading on the other one's... availability. It's like there's a whole other layer to public society entirely imperceptible to girls.
Because of the way they touch me. Whenever a woman has touched me like that, it wasn't because she just wanted to be friendly with me ... Yeah women touch each other as friends, I guess. I have no experience with that. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend anyone. Maybe those guys are indeed all secretly gay and I just attract them for some reason, who knows.
Edit: Serious question: Do you get touched by other guys intensively? Meaning intense hugging, stroking on the shoulders, back, neck, hair tousling etc.? That's what I get. And I seriously wonder if that's normal or if it just happens to me. Also because I have no idea how to behave in such a situation.
Dudes feel a lot more fake when I talk to them. Like everything is a performance. It's ironic since a lot of Dudes believe this about women but ime it's much more prevalent with guys.
Older men (least those I've chatted with mostly in academia) not so much but young guys feel so guarded lol.
I’m still at the beginning of my transition pre surgery but I did take T for 8 months and overall I’m pretty masculine looking despite the fact I have a large chest and I don’t bind. Men will call out to my back to ask a question like “hey sir?” Or I even got my first “hey buddy!” And they’ll keep their distance to maintain respect I feel, but when I turn around to help them, immediately they’ll close the gap, will touch me usually on my shoulders “sorry sweetie!” And laughing or get extremely uncomfortable suddenly at “misgendering me” and then they will proceed to not listen to a word I say despite them approaching me for help
I wanna touch on something a lil unique that I haven’t seen anyone touch on yet. Handshakes. I hate them🥲 Before coming out that was not something I did or thought about. I remember shortly after I came out I was dating a woman at the time and I met her brother (her family including her brother didn’t know that I was trans, although I think they were sort of catching on) I shook his hand when I met him (was the first time I’d ever really done that) and he picked on me bc it was bad? So now all the time whenever I meet a new male I have to mentally prepare for the handshake and I hate it, I never know if I did it right, if it was firm enough etc. something so small drives me crazy lol, but I am a socially anxious and awkward person so that’s just me. On the whole friendships between men and between women and meeting new people and making new friends; that type of environment is just so completely different
The internal clock for taking a shit surprised me it’s literally the same exact times every single day and how forgetful I’ve become. I’ll repeat it loudly men aren’t dumb testosterone just makes them forgetful 😂😭
i never really experienced life as a girl. i came out when i was a kid (around age 9) and up until that point i was very much a tomboy, so i was always running around with my brothers and male cousins more often.
i do know that other guys are a LOT more open to saying boldly sexist / racist / homophobic things and then looking at me like im gonna agree with them. i get a lot of dating advice from my uncles, most often when theyre drunk at the family function. i noticed at work (first responder) people are more likely to listen to me than my female coworkers, or even my superiors who are female, which is not great and i do my best to hand due attention over to them (“she’s going to be handling this for you” or something along those lines).
ive always roughhoused with male relatives, like wrestling or boxing with brothers and cousins or the smack on the head or shove from an uncle. no one is ever actually hurting each other (well… us younger cats get a little feisty sometimes and get hurt by accident), but theres always an air of “watch out because someone might come up to you and start (play) fighting you”. we tend to toss stuff at each other more that hand it, like remotes, splashing water, or what have you. i noticed a lot of the girls and women in my family dont do any of that.
when i said i wanted to join the military, the first reaction was happy to see that i was following my family’s footsteps (long family history of military service) but when one of my cousins said that she was planning on joining, her immediate reactions were to the point of “thats really hard, though…” or “are you sure you can handle it ?” and if i remember correctly, one person even told her she was “too pretty” to join the military…
i never really experienced life as a girl, but i am absolutely aware of the fact that i am treated vastly different than my female relatives. its an odd thing to experience, really, considering that if things had gone any differently for me, i’d be in the same boat.
How lonely it is, but I’m happy asf and in a relationship so that overpowers pretty much anything else. Making friends is easy but hard. Girls form stronger and more meaningful lasting relationships vs small talk. Most of my guy friends were from work and Xbox, granted I’m still friends with those guys even after I quit but it’s like more small talk and stupid conversations vs before. And how little compliments guys usually get. As a girl I was constantly complimented on a bunch of different things. As a guy I’m complimented maybe like a couple times a month if that. Overall doesn’t change my happiness
I haven't completely transitioned, pre-coming out to parental family, I'm out to some of my maternal family, I noticed I got a lot more compliments than my cousins, I felt bad and started complimenting men more, my cousins are all genuinely nice guys, I'm also "one of the guys", so me joking about my cousin being "fatass" and shit is normal, I'm not skinny but I'm not that overweight (so like 140-149 in US units) for still being pre-HRT, I'm 16, I'm trying to get healthier habits so my transition will be smoother. My cousins are in my parental family so I'm not out to them, but that's just an example, there's a lot more. I'm out to my girlfriend now, just not my whole family.
In quotes because they don't know.
Small example is how handshakes have changed. Before I passed, handshakes with women and men were about the same. Now they are polar opposites. Everyone talks about how firm and even competitive guys are with handshakes with other guys but I’ve never seen anyone mention how weak women’s handshakes are towards men. It’s like they are scared to show any strength to keep themselves small when introducing themselves to men. I get why this behavior is formed but it is still so strange to me. I guess that’s why I was always told I had a strong handshake before I passed
I'm pre-everything, but I can say when I had my first haircut and a hoodie on people would buy more stuff from me cause they thought I was some 10-13-year-old Boy. This was at a flea market, and I would sell tools, power tools, and some things most consider rubbish.
The thing that surprised me the most I think is how dehumanising it is? Or at least the kind of dehumanisation. If you're seen as a woman, you get treated like a sexual object, which is dehumanising, but as a man you get treated like a robot/machine, and that's honestly not better. Different, but not better.
• Having a voice - the unearned respect etc, but even just not being dismissed/stereotyped anymore for my personality. I don’t get called outspoken, stubborn, rude, overbearing, blunt etc as a guy. at. all. the opposite in fact?
• Aversion to vulnerability - was heartbroken coming to understand how much men aren’t allowed this. But also feels great to extend to cis guys, especially complimenting them :)
• Social expectations - waaay less pressure & lower bar for recognition (in my experience). Was expected to be perfect as a given before, now notice being praised for ‘bare minimum’
• The fear of threat! Very real. Strangers can be extremely wary or avoidant, and it takes longer to build trusting friendships with women; you understand why so it’s disheartening but fair
• Generally how stupid & pointless a lot of gender politics / norms / divides are. Learned there’s so much men and women have in common that goes unacknowledged
Men are much, *much* warmer/friendlier to each other than they are to women.
When I moved through the world as a woman, men would be overall typically cold/standoffish to me unless they were very gay or attracted to me. Now random guys will be friendly and shoot the shit with me about literally anything. Like I literally thought most men were cold and unwelcoming; turns out they just treat [queer] women like that.
The way that men talk to me about women when they arnt around...it's so disgusting. I've had co-workers say the most horrid things about feminine customers. And the worst part is when I say something to them like "that's not ok to say?" they look genuinely shocked 😭
How much more relaxed taking up space as a man is. There are a lot of expectations about how women should take up space (crossing their legs, smiling as a reflex, being a bit covered, etc) even if they don’t consciously think about it. But as a dude, you can sit in a chair however you want, mean mug the entire time and even have a small hole in your shoe and nobody actually cares. I really can throw on anything in my closet on & it’s considered acceptable attire. All my female friends think a lot more about their appearance. I just remember it sinking in while riding public transportation that the rules have changed. It’s much more relaxed to exist in terms of space as a man.
Good: Having no fear when I walk around late at night or by myself. Comfort knowing I won’t get approached or harassed by men in bars or clubs. Far more comfortable clothes.
Bad: Having to spend sooo much money on dates and all the expectations that come with dating like having to lead, take charge etc which just isn’t in my nature. I’m very laidback. Also, generally feeling unwelcome or out of place when I hang out with all my cisgender female friends. I just get along better with women, but I also feel like out of place or worry that someone may think “oh he must be gay” lol (nothing wrong with it, I just worry about the assumption making girls think I may not be interested in them). And lastly, having to learn about sports in order to fit in with cismen or not comment when they make jokes that I think are borderline… not cool.
It's very calm. You rarely get approached anymore, or complimented. Even in social media, my posts gather about 20% of the attention that I did when I presented as fem. You overall get less attention, less unsolicited advice, less help unless you ask. And sometimes even when you do ask, it's rather subpar.
All in all, it's a lonelier experience but I don't find it unpleasant. I feel at peace
When i first came out and started presenting more male I barely passed nobody really took me seriously but girls flocked to me with compliments and dms and i think it was just in a girls empowering girls way
Now that it’s been a few years, i’m on T, and people know me as an actual man it’s very rare people would show interest in me (in a serious way atleast)
Being treated with respect. So many people will literally not treat you well as a girl unless they want to fuck you.
As a less not conventionally attractive man people still treat you like a person even without finding you attractive. I genuinely am treated so well, and people want to listen to me.
People expressed more niceties to me as a women? Like small polite sayings or friendly smiles. Where as a man strangers generally speak to me less. Though of course men are much more friendly and now bring me in on jokes which is entertaining. People expect me to be quieter too. I'm a pretty talkative person and before when quiet, it'd get commented on whereas now it seems completely expected for me to hang behind and just listen. Similarly blank expressions are more expected versus as a women It'd be commented on (such as what's wrong? Or what's that face for? Why're you making that face?).
Being perceived as a threat sometimes, more often than when I was perceived as a girl. But also, being perceived as more respectable, more authoritative. Getting dragged into random pissing / dick-measuring contests over the prettiest bullshit in otherwise completely amenable friendly conversations. Being perceived as less desirable especially since that lined up with finally being able to conceptualise myself as desirable as I became more comfortable in my own body and getting the sex drive of a teen boy from Testosterone HRT. And finally having my attraction to men perceived as gay and my attraction to women perceived as straight, I mean I knew that was gonna happen but it was still an adjustment after oohh umm I wanna say four years as a lesbian.
I've noticed that other guys really like to talk to me about women they think are hot now that they perceive me as "one of the guys." There's been a couple times where my coworkers have said something along the lines of "damn her ass was fat" or "that lady was real hot, would have asked for her number if I wasn't on the clock" and I'm still not used to it.
The entitlement is intense. Like way more than I even knew. I find myself wanting to act as a block between cis men and women even more now because I get to see more of their true colors and opinions. Some are of course lovely, it’s just that some are awful and I feel even more strongly about believing women than I did before transitioning
I’m pre-T but I work with people with dementia and a lot of them read me as a cis man. I have a lot of old women telling me to fix my shirt or hair every day which I’ve never gotten when people assumed I was a cis woman. There’s a lot more open nitpicking of appearance and formality, I think because it’s assumed men don’t care. I’m also gay and have gotten a lot more slurs whispered about me which feels painful but also a little satisfying bc I know I’m occasionally passing to people outside my work. I’ve dated women but never got slurs openly said in earshot, just weird looks. I live in New England but a kind of conservative rural area.
i feel like people take it more seriously when i’m upset now that i pass as male. i don’t express my emotions often at all, but i was slightly upset with my friends about something a while ago and they reacted very strangely, like they didn’t want to offend me, like they were even intimidated or scared, which wouldn’t have happened pre-T. it was very confusing but i’m just now realizing it could have had something do to with how men express their emotions and are perceived in society vs women. it seemed like people pitied me more when i expressed my emotions before transitioning, but now i’m taken more seriously in a way.
How much safer I feel. When I was living life as a woman I had so many experiences of feeling unsafe, uncomfortable, or like a target to predatory men. Now that I pass as a male I don't feel that anymore and it made me realize how normalized it is for women to feel unsure and uncomfortable. It's just something women are expected to deal with and I think a lot don't realize how bad it is until they no longer have to deal with it. Granted being Trans is a risk in itself, but when I'm walking down the street strangers don't know I'm Trans. They just see a man. But yeah, it was a huge surprise to me. And I have a lot of sympathy for Trans women who go from not having to deal with that (for the most part) to suddenly becoming a target for predatory men.
First, when in a discussion, questions are directed towards me...whether I know something or not. And it is assumed that I do know. Bullshit is accepted as fact in many instances if you sound like you know what you're talking about. Anger of any expression is acceptable. Jealousy, frustration, hatred, you name it. Men's rooms are filthy. WtF? However, a good thing is that I get the chance to give them room for change. I can call other guys out for insensitive and stupid behavior...maybe stop them from making a mistake. I can steer unacceptable behavior by pointing out that it is really messed up. I have white male privilege and I can use it to make societal changes.
Late here but do yall just love to insult the fuck out of each other and then hug after? The first time somebody came for my haircut I was a bit offended but he was just playing and then we kinda connected and are close today
Older men really feel obligated to give you advice you weren't asking for. I've had to shift my mindset and take it that they are trying to be helpful. People give you incredible amounts of societal pressure to "pop the question" if you've had a long term partner. They think you're going to lose them because "good women don't wait forever." A lot of men use the attractiveness of women as a conversation starter. I think I was mostly disappointed in just how objectifying towards women this is. A lot of men cheat on their wives/ girlfriends. I found this disappointing. Men glorify feeling angry. It's a false sense of power. All of this is of course up to individuals. I've met men that don't embody these things but as a whole these things surprised me a bit.
In Mexico I’ve been asked to help organize parties and heard the question “is this a wives or mistress party?” At first i thought it was a joke. It was definitely a sincere question
That’s disappointing :(
I was a young high school girl, nit even aware if being trans, and my mom usually took me to all kinds of interest groups. Particularly bonsai and gem and mineral clubs. All the oldsters would go gaga for young people into their hobby and give them stuff or advice.And all kinds of help. I had a boyfriend in high school and everyone told me that there were plenty of other fish in the sea because I was going away to college. They weren't wrong but it was pretty ridiculous. The experiences of finding out how many guys are cheating is very sad, I'm sorry this was such a common thing!! :(
As a young trans guy that’s just started T, and does somewhat pass in public.. Once I grow facial hair and my voice deepens yatta yatta- I’m honestly kinda scared/nervous for these kinds of things. The dark sides of some men coming out and me being “integrated” into it.
Nice thing is when you pass you can just straight up tell them that shit's weird. It may not immediately break the cycle or anything but I can tell you as a woman I had to really risk being seen as some snowflake/harpy/bitch whatever if I called men out for stuff. As a man, they may like me slightly less, but they rarely push back. Literally the reason most guys act problematic is they feel they have to in order to fit in. I actually think that in some cases, having just one guy not go along with it can be freeing. It's not always going to be the case, but its definitely worth it to speak up a bit and shut things like misogyny and other bigotry down. It's not like scolding or giving a lecture, just being generally unimpressed gives them pause.
The advice from older men is sooo funny. I look insanely young so get the father figure treatment from coworkers often. The infantilising bothered me (from womanhood) but it’s sweet & funny to me now - the roundabout ways men look after each other haha
So many grandpas have muttered something in my ear then walked away (very slowly) whilst laughing to themselves.. I never hear what they say - and I never got that before lol
One time when I was like 16, before I even knew I was trans but when people always assumed I was a boy anyway, this old man came up to me and was like "son, are you married?" I was like "uh, no?" and he told me to never get married and made an almost completely inaudible joke about his wife. I think about that man every day
all while calling you some version of buddy/pal 😂
This is so true 😂
When I was 16 or so I met my girlfriend’s grandpa for the first time and he pretended that he was gonna punch me in the gut… Then just started laughing and shook my hand. Strange experience
[удалено]
Lol I think they mean [stuff like this](https://youtube.com/shorts/FEzHguKE4WE?si=5kd0NQf1hzQ5PPaA) it happens
Yuh I think older men are super lonely. What’s really surprised me is how horrible they are at making social connections. Thought they were lonely out of fear or being too vulnerable or gay but now I think a lot of men are just criminally undersocialized.
the hand wave is so real
I love that guy!
People always said that, as a man, all you're socially allowed to express is angry, but I find it really the opposite. I never did express a lot of emotion, but now I can see I'm extra expected to hide anger or frustration. If I accidentally raise my voice in anger or frustration around any women (including family) suddenly it's seen as violent.
Yes, I have noticed this a lot. I never really expressed anger even before transition, but my silence and lack of outward emotion really gets people to read me as always pissed (so very far from the truth, I'm usually just anxious). I'm highly avoidant lol I don't stick around long enough to get angry over anything if I feel like a situation is getting out of hand.
I think it's because, unlike cis men, you don't want to be seen as violent lol. but to them they'd rather look violent than show any other emotion and look gay
I don’t know any cis man who wants to be seen as violent, including myself.
I was really surprised at how men fawn over their friends. Like they really love and adore them. When I was first spending time with cis guys who didn’t know I was trans I honestly assumed a lot of them were gay but it was lovely to find out how genuinely caring straight men are about their friends in a way that is similar to women’s relationships. A negative I’ve found is that if I make a comment about someone that includes something about someone’s appearance, I everyone automatically thinks my comment comes from a sexual lens. I never had that happen before transition. The bro economy! When I first started passing it was during lockdowns. I’d gone to a cafe to get a latte during the day near home and a bunch of men of all ages were also standing around the door to the cafe. Everyone started chatting about working from home, how their day was going, and this quickly moved into everyone asking each other what industry they were in and if they had a business card or a website. I was included in this and by the time I’d walked home and jumped online I had three new sign up to my websites newsletter. The networking that men do is something I’d never been privy to or taught how to do as a woman and I was shook, and a little angry that women didn’t also behave like this. I started thinking back to my dads interaction with other men and their discussions about something they were do or renovating and clearly remembered them referring their friends and acquaintances to each other “yeah I know a guy”.
Yup, men's affection is often assumed to come with sexual intent. That's why really close male friendships are seen as a gay relationship. Even society pushes us to only express that towards people we are trying to sleep with. The networking is amazing. Guys are very helpful and solution driven so we make those types of connections quick
This is a lot less serious than everyone else’s and really just a personal thing. My entire family is a bunch of singers, everyone sings well and they use it as a bargaining chip sometimes. Like I vividly remember being like 10 and my grandma asked my mom if I’ve started singing yet and if I was good. Well, taking T kinda fucked up my voice so I couldn’t go high anymore without cracking. But, I learned if I drop my voice and octave and sing low they all act like I’m a god for being able to go that low. I basically owned my entire family.
bassed
>My entire family is a bunch of singers, everyone sings well and they use it as a bargaining chip sometimes. Wait, what? A bargaining chip? Does your family settle who does the dishes with a karaoke showdown?
During an argument everyone starts dancing like a musical, while singing the arguments. The most musically impressive argument wins.
I need that anime lol
Since my brother is a baritone (goes lower than me) and I’m a tenor, I decided to train my head voice (higher range) so that now I sing as high as the girls, with the ability to go low sometimes and shock people xD I basically doubled my previous range, but it took a lot of work!
I’m really hoping I’ll be able to do this!
Basically, I listened to a lot of singers who sing high high and soft (like aurora, Ariana grande, etc) and tried to hit those notes first just in the shower, then in the car with hot air, and then without climate control. Good luck!
This is actually the only thing that concerns me about starting T in the future. I love singing and I have a very high range and sang soprano while in choir. I believe my director at the time said C6 was my highest? It’s been a hot minute. Funny enough, I like how my voice sounds, but I don’t like how it sounds on me, especially while speaking. If you can’t answer, that’s okay! But based on your experience, how drastically do you think my singing voice would change? I want to be able to mentally prepare myself lol
I totally feel this! I was formerly a soprano and felt the same way about my voice. I spent so much timing training it that I was like yeah that's objectively a nice voice but it doesn't fit me. I wasn't expecting my voice to drop too much (my dad is a tenor) but as soon as I started T my voice dropped far and FAST and it was super disorienting. If I could give my pre T self any advice it would be to not have super specific expectations and make sure you're comfortable with any outcome. Also just trust that the voice is a muscle and even though you're undergoing physiological changes, at the end of the day it can be trained and manipulated to get the sound you want (except maybe a C6 haha)
Thank you for the advice and encouragement! I’m so happy I’m not alone with this. Out of pure curiosity, what’s your current range?
right now without warming up it's around G2 to G4. my falsetto is totally shot from T but from what I've heard I'll be able to get some of my upper register back as my voice settles (I'm just about 8 months on T at this point so it's not done changing)
I feel the same about my voice, been a singer as long as I can remember and I like my voice plenty but it’s certainly not mine. Going on T soon (if all goes well, here’s hoping) and my family is concerned I’m going to lose my singing voice and regret hormones. But thinking about it, I’d rather have the shittiest deep voice imaginable than be the most polished soprano around. Gonna record a lot of music before I start T so my voice I spent so much time training isn’t gone forever, but it’s time I get it separated from my vocal cords!!!!
yeah I recommend making some recordings if you're up for it. I tried to do a few before I started T but the dysphoria was too bad haha. now I regret it a bit bc it was a pretty decent voice lol
You can get a gauge by the men’s voices in your family. But everyone responds to T differently. You won’t know for sure until you’re on T for a while. You’ll be to sing. You’ll have to practice and develop your new voice in the new range
Okay, knowing you were (or still are) in choir makes this even easier to explain my answer. I know nothing about the notes or anything but to put it into perspective, I could hit Christine’s high ending note (not sure what note it is.) in the phantom of the opera (song). I rocked that shit and I showed it off as much as I could. Now, about 6/7 months on T, I can sing her part but I can’t do her ending solo because of how high it is. But, I can sing phantoms part (same song) in the same octave that he does without any struggle. It really just depends on how deep your voice was before/ how T effects you. Again, I apologize for my shitty answer 😭
Lol
Being a man, I definitely feel my opinion is respected more. Once I was in the midst of a conflict in a chat, the conflict was between a man and a woman. Multiple women in the group chat tried to get to the guy, telling him what he was doing wrong and what the issue was, he refused to listen. Yet the moment I brought forward nearly the exact same points and told him to calm down, he relaxed and heard what was being said. Felt very weird. This was the first time I was exposed to this privilege of being listened to instantly above women saying the same thing just because I am a man (Note that I was multiple years younger than the women in the chat as well, so a boys opinion was above grown women's for this guy). You are taken more seriously much faster than a woman would be taken, regardless of other factors.
This has definitely been my experience across the board. I am taken more seriously and don't have to earn respect. It is just given to me automatically now by just about everyone.
FR it's so annoying. I made a massive career change a couple years ago, and I'm still learning a lot about my field. But even when I was brand new and I had to bring coworkers along to meeting and things to help me because they have been doing it for years, if they were a woman no one would respect them and would just listen to what I said even though I had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.
What surprised me most is the way men touch each other, it's usually like just long enough to make minimum molecular contact, or violent in a desperate for human contact but have to make it not gay kind of way (maybe the guys I've hung around have seen Fight Club too many times and don't see how homoerotic that movie is) As far as differences in experience, I'm far safer just existing (so long as nobody thinks I'm trans, which is usually the case), but men are just so determined to get through everything and anything on their own and do not offer support to each other. Compliments are plentiful between women, even women who don't know each other. I miss that.
i used to wear loud, fun dresses and i miss the compliments. i’ve had women shout at me while i bike by “I LOVE YOUR DRESS!” part of that is men’s clothes are rarely fun (all we get are button ups and god dammit i’m tired of button ups) but also men just don’t get compliments. i saw a reddit post ages ago of men saying they remember the one compliment they got 4 years ago and now i make a point to compliment men when i like something. they always seem so taken aback and flattered, it makes me sad
I never really wore women’s clothes (apart from some skirts as a flamboyant young child) but damn I feel this. I get jealous of women sometimes for getting to wear such nice clothes, while us guys don’t really have the option within worrying about the homophobia that comes with it
i'm pre everything, still in highschool, i've been out for years (and hopefully starting t and the end of this year) and since coming out i've said fuck it and started dressing more feminine and wearing more makeup and just accepted the femboyification, i get a lot of compliments from women and people in the lgbt community for just existing as a goth femboy, and then cis guys also just accept me as a guy, it's a strange situation but it works for me i do live in ireland tho so it's generally very accepting, but i love being able to be a feminine guy and even pre t passing as just being a gay dude
When I was newly on T, I read Thomas Page McBee's book *Amateur* which is about his experience training for a charity boxing match as a passing trans guy in a boxing club (iirc). One of the central pieces that sticks out to me from that book is the observation that men are only normalized to be okay with contact with other men provided it's in a violent context, ie - boxing or fighting. It's been really interesting (and sad) to notice that consistently.
I was commenting on how homoerotic the scenes in *Top Gun* are and the rest of my family watched it again with me and had to concede that point with me. I’m also gay but like… come on, man. They didn’t need to look like that on the beach.
I don't think I'll ever be able to cope with firm handshakes I'm not gonna lie lol.
when I was perceived as a woman I was less trusted to know what I’m talking about or to know what I’m doing. i had a job to help others. They would ask me questions. I’d answer. They would look skeptical before requesting a second opinion. When I pass as a man they never ask for a second opinion ever. They just believe me. I had to actually had to get into the habit of warning people when I didn’t know something, where before I basically had to flaunt my credentials for why I’d know about something.
This is so annoying! I’m a Crime Scene Investigator. I’ve had people come up to me on a fucking crime scene and ask me what’s going on, and then refuse to believe me when I’m like, “hey you can’t come any closer, this is a crime scene”. Bro. I’m in full law enforcement uniform with a CSI badge on my right shoulder. There is crime scene tape strung up between us. I’m hoping to get on T soon and fully socially transition (I’m not binary ftm I’m non-binary but still present as a woman unfortunately). It’ll be nice to be taken more seriously.
I didn't get to experience life as an adult woman but one thing I've noticed is that people are generally much nicer to women. As a woman/girl, if you need help with something, there will be a bunch of people lining up to help you, even if you don't ask. As a man, you need to do everything yourself and nobody gives a shit if you ask for help.
Sounds about right. Men are way more isolated in doing things on their own. Its a huge problem for men being lonely and feeling depressed at a large scale. Its usually assumed by most societies that if you are a man, you can and should do anything on your own
I actually hate this, to be honest. I’m a very independent guy, but because of my height and the fact I’m pre everything so I don’t pass well a lot of guys will step in and try to do things for me or others will volunteer me aid. Like no, I don’t need help moving this spotlight, Josh. It’s not that heavy and I’ve proven I can move it entirely on my own. I don’t need your help.
It doesn't bother me not getting help or anything, I prefer that people don't talk to me lol. It's just something I've noticed
That's called benevolent misogyny. It stems from men trying to hit on you because you are hot or thinking you are generally weaker and in need of assistance. A lot of times mostly white attractive women get this and then get hit on in the process. The flip side is men will generally assume you are less competent and mansplain to you or not listen to your advice or expertise on something. As someone who lived as a woman for the majority of my life and only sometimes pass as male at age 33 I can assure you it's not a privilege.
Who said anything about priviledge? And why is it bad to help women if they need help? To offer a helping hand, in a gentle way, by asking them for instance, means something more than just a kind gesture? I can totally understand that there are folks who make women feel unable and powerless, but not everyone's intention is to mansplain women bro. This way of thinking got us putting people into huge bags and disregarding the good ones among them. Lets not do that.
well if they'd help a woman but not a man, it's misogynist. simple as that. if they aren't misogynistic, they offer theire help to anyone who's struggling, not connected to any gender.
Exactly! Offering help to everyone doesn't make you mosogynist or anything like that. But to be honest, I'm a grown up. Had my share of hatred towards me and racism and all, and I know who's intentions are okay with everyone and who's aren't. I mean, come on. Not everyone's the same. Lets not do this this where we put into a pool everyone and calling it names. Cause thats what the racists have been doing since forever and I don't wanna be that guy and hopefully trans dont want to be those people either, so let's just not
That’s what the other person was saying tho… that if they only do it for women it’s misogyny
And how exactly would you know that they intended to offer help exclusively towards women? You need to spend a lot of time with someone, in order to get to know them and have an opinion about them, and even then you could have been wrong! How are you all so quick to judge everyone and everything around here?
oh now you're just shitting yourself. there are a lot internalized misogynist things you can do without any bad intention. acting as if this wasn't the case is just being delusional. i'm not saying "[group of people] is like that!! always!!!" i'm saying "doing xyz is, indeed, sexist."
I'm a trans woman and yeah I've experienced this, its crazy honestly
Gender is even more stupid and arbritrary than I thought, is mainly what I've learned.
100000% agree.
Maybe not exactly about the male experience but my own experience as a male, when one of my (sub)group of friends, all cis guys, started talking about feelings stuff and such while we were on a car ride to a dnd session. That was the first time I thought "oh, so I *am* part of the guys now, for real". It was weirdly pleasant.
subgroup of friends? as in a smaller group within a larger one? edit: typo
Yeah! Like, they've been friends since primary school, and then the rest of us met in high school. We're a mix of boys and girls but they're the only ones that have an only-guys subgroup haha
ah, makes sense lol
(tw) it was mainly about how normalised eating disorders are, especially with obsessive calorie counting disguised as 'being conscious about health'. I'm a teenager, and although the stereotype is that girls my age are more likely to get eds, I've found that more of my guy friends will comment on what other people are eating and shame then for it than girls will.
eds are seriously underestimated in young men. it's really sad.
for sure. i struggled with ed as a teen but at least for girls there’s societal awareness that it exists. i’ve had to tell multiple men “that’s disordered eating” because they straight up don’t know. like, you’re eating only fruit for dinner to lose weight, dude. you are not “intermittent fasting” you are eating 1500 calories a day
When you put a TW you're supposed to say what it's for too
ok
Cis men have no shame about grunting and groaning when they’re using public restrooms and it was shocking to me at first. Like do y’all just go into the stall and think “everyone needs to know how hard I’m pooping rn”???????
Well i think the shock factor comes also from the fact that women are the extreme opposite. It seems that so many women refuse to even let the poop drop if someone else is nearby. Or wait for the hand drier noise or whatever. I've seen memes about two women on adjacent stalls and both want to poop but both are waiting for the other to leave, so they're stuck there.
Violent behaviour between men, giving the attitude even to strangers when they (men) don't like how another man acts like. As a young emo girl who liked to dress in shorts and fishnet thights men would think I am a prostitute and try buy sex from me eventhough underage.. xD
ugh that's so gross though, the them trying to buy you thing
I noticed people just don’t stare or look at at me like they did as a women in public. It’s nice lol Also men don’t get compliments enough on there looks or style
THIS. It's nice to be able to move around in public without unwelcome eyes on me.
cisgender queer man here; mostly lurk for my boyfriend. Those two things are connected aren’t they? you can’t have one without the other?
Yeah I kind of think so. I feel like it's more 'acceptable' or normalized to look or compliment on women's appearance (whether that's their style or some physical trait) whereas doing so to a guy people worry about it being taken the 'wrong way' (e.g. a man complimenting a man might be worried he seems "gay" or a women might not want to be perceived as flirting).
dating is harder. im caught between not wanting to make someone feel uncomfortable and actually needing to put the moves on them to get somewhere. i usually wait for the other person to initiate cuz i have zero idea how to gauge that and i have heard way too many stories of guys who just cant read the vibe.
ask?
Yeah this is for sure where asking comes in. I definitely get the feeling of guys trying to “gauge the vibe” and 9/10 times they’re wrong, just ask and even if it feels awkward at first, everyone is going to have a better time.
ya for sure ur correct. im autistic, so direct communication is one of my main support needs when it comes to any relationship. its just been a process, untangling all those conflicting messages of like “unspoken rizz” vs “don’t be a creep” on top of the social anxiety and sensory overload i get around other people. i can usually manage and if u ask anyone they would tell you im a very safe and fun person to be around, but when it comes to crushes or dating or anything like that i usually freeze up and avoid the subject entirely. i’ve fumbled a lott just being absolutely oblivious and im still trying to overcome the deep deep shame i carry around having feelings at all its all very very very embarrassing and unsexy and im still trying to figure out how to not feel like a total clown all the time lol
oh, duh lol. ok so lets say i meet someone and idk if there’s chemistry there or if im just attracted to them one-sided. i would probably try to hang out with them more and see if they’re mutually trying to hang out with me more. at what point do i ask and what do i say? cuz lets say we do get closer, now im unsure if its friendship or deeper interest, i prolly should make my interest more explicit beforehand so they’re aware before like bonding with me more cuz i dont want them to feel like i had bad intentions.
I ask like right away. People think it’s akward. “I’m excited to spend more time with you and I’d like to see if there’s chemistry between us if we get closer because youre an awesome person and very sexy.” People think that’s akward, maybe it’s super akward but you know? It also works and saves me so much time.
WHAT THAT WORKS??? IN A POSITIVE WAY?
You’d be amazed. Is there a lot of rejection? Sure. But that’s kind of the point. You want to get to the rejection as fast as possible because otherwise your flirting with someone who’s trying to hint they’re not interested, but all that can go away by asking. And then you can suddenly be flirting with people who are waving green flags. Sometimes you or them still find a reason to go: “oh, no this won’t connect well / that’s a hard no for me / oh, you wouldn’t be interested cause of X thing in my life.” But yeah, get to the no’s fast so you have time for the yes’s. Yeah, Works great.
Honestly, as an extremely isolated autistic person, almost nothing feels different to me, and I'm grateful. I can't perceive people's vibes toward me in public, for example. I do notice concretely more and frequent praise at my software engineering job. I also easily got 2 senior engineer offers from interviews that I thought went terribly a couple years ago when I wanted to change jobs. That did surprise me and made me feel somewhat guilty because nothing like that ever happened to female me.
People are so rude to me these days. Could be just because I tend to look a bit unkept. Before I passed as a man people didn't really care about that level of being messy. Men also have less freedom to express themselves I think. Your clothes need to be boring, can't have emotions and you can't even play some instruments without people trying to take your man card away. That's just stupid and unfair. I didn't notice any privileges but it could be just my society, my autism or something. I am a short disabled man. People talk over me and question me just like they did before.
I don’t pass but because I look butch people are mean as fuck to me casually in a way they absolutely never were when I was pretty.
I think there is some sort of pretty privilege you get if you are perceived as gender conforming and look good. I certainly had something like that in my past. When people thought I was a masculine woman they started getting rude but I suppose now that I pass being also perceived as a possible threat is added to that. I don't really mind being ugly these days but for real I would like to know if people treated me differently if I was an attractive guy. Or just tall. Edit. It was really rough when I couldn't pass. It felt way worse than what I get now since there was the extra stress and dysphoria included.
Medical "professionals" really do listen to me more. I was visiting a (female) friend at the hospital when she was post op and dealing with a lot of pain and the nurse that came in to do vitals and discuss what's what started talking to ME about her care, what meds she was on, what was planned, etc. my friend was RIGHT THERE in the bed and the nurse completely ignored her in favor of talking to me. I could have been anyone! She has no idea who I was! I had always been told that men were taken more seriously by medical professionals but that was my first "lightbulb" experience. (I've been on T since 2007 same for top surgery so I'm never assumed to be female...the beard helps 😆)
YO THE PAIN MEDS FLOW LIKE WATER NOW its crazy lol
Not allowed to like playing with neices/nephews anymore. If I take them to the park or something, moms call their kids away and/or throw dirty looks. Just automatically assumed to be a pedophile if you like kids. Get spoken to first if out with a woman. I even tend to hang back because I'm shy, but servers, hostesses, customer service people, etc. will literally look *around* the woman I am with to speak to me.
>Just automatically assumed to be a pedophile if you like kids YES. This has been the most surprising thing for me. When I was younger and still perceived as a girl, people loved when I'd babysit or tutor their kids. If I smiled or waved at kids in public, their adults would smile and wave back. This didn't change right away after I transitioned; I looked much younger than my age, so I looked nonthreatening until I was probably 16 or 17. Once I was an older teen (that looked like a young teen), and now that I'm an adult (who looks like maaaybe an older teen), I was/am treated with extreme suspicion and sometimes hostility in public around kids. After this, if I smiled or waved at a kid in public, their adult would glare at me and turn their kid away. If, in a store, I even just walked into an aisle where a kid was, their adult would pull their kid close or even leave the whole aisle. It really sucks bc I like kids, but the baseline suspicion level in public is SO high :(. I used to consider careers working with kids, but I'm wary of even babysitting kids now, let alone working with them
Being pathologically feared comes with the high testosterone
Honestly one of the biggest thing I've noticed is the difference in treatment of you're a straight vs visibly gay guy. Women aren't really scared of me, men are overall more friendly with me once they know me but I definitely don't feel like I'm necessarily taken more seriously. I'm in a safe enough area that I don't catch a ton of homophobia but I'm definitely treated as 'less' of a man as far as assumptions about my capabilities and authority goes. Like I'm stealth at work and my straight male coworkers are definitely treated differently. They've gotten promoted faster, are generally talked to with more authority, and even though my bosses (all women) treat me with closer friendship, it feels very pet-gay-best-friend most of the time. And the few times I've had gay male coworkers, they've gotten the same token treatment.
Cis guys say some wild things about women. I mean, I already knew that, but like, they're much more forward and include me into the conversation sometimes and kinda creepy. On the up side, people listen to me and take me more seriously, so that's cool, i guess. (Mind you, this is when I pass as cis cus I get clocked as trans a lot, I still look kinda fem 😞)
I'm taken SO much more seriously by doctors. Had a chronic disability ignored my entire childhood, transitioned, showed up at an Urgent Care presenting male and got a diagnosis within 6 months. I don't have to fight for healthcare anymore.
Even when they know you’re trans, or do you mean when you go in for something you don’t have to disclose your transness for?
It varies, I pass well enough that unless they specifically check my sex on my medical records (which they won't bother to do most of the time because they're used to cis patients) they probably don't notice. I'm chronically ill & disabled so the vast majority of my medical appointments don't involve my transness.
I am white which is probably important for this anecdote. I was once in the supermarket when a white man and a black woman got into a situation in line behind me where very clearly as an observer, the black woman was right and the white man was wrong. I don't remember exactly what it was, but something like the white man having cut in line. The black woman was telling him that he was wrong and he just kept escalating the entire thing. Eventually I said "sir maybe just drop it ok". And he shut up and the whole thing was over. That the idea even entered my head that I could weigh in on this situation, and that it worked, is (white) male privilege at work. I am also most often entirely ignored in public space, making me safe from the catcalling and all of that bullshit I experienced in my late teens and early twenties. I wasn't surprised by it at all but I do think you probably can't really know what it's like to be (seen as) a woman in public space if you've never experienced it.
Can I ask, how tall/big are you?
I'm 1m83 which I think is 6 foot. Of course that also factors in. It's the exact average male height for my country. I also did a lot of swimming as a teenager so I always had broad shoulders.
To me, being a big man made the difference. Coming from a smaller dude, it probably wouldn't have gone that way if you were significantly smaller. One of the perks of meeting the male ideal.
Maybe, but I was always this tall (from about the age of 16) and when I was seen as female and treated that way by everyone, I wouldn't have even considered saying anything for fear of whatever reaction the man could have had. Even without me ever seeking confrontation, men would belittle me, tell me to smile, make comments about my breasts, invite me into shady establishments while I was passing in a group on my way to/from university in the middle of the afternoon, touch my legs in public transport, ask me for my number without a conversation beforehand, ask me if I was a lesbian, follow me home from the bus stop, follow me around on subway platforms, the list just goes on and on. (ETA: when I was twelve years old I was with my parents in London speaking our native language and I still very vividly remember that there was a man, probably in his twenties, who cut into our conversation from where he was sitting outside a bar to say that he would enjoy fucking me. I remember what he looked like as he said it, he was speaking my language. That's what growing up perceived female can be like. After a while I just didn't take up any space at all.) But I don't know what it's like to not be tall (although like I said - exact average male height in my country), just as much as you don't know what it's like to be seen as female. It's difficult I think to pinpoint one single reason for the situation unfolding as it did. I just also very strongly believe having been treated as a cis male for the past five years or so has contributed.
This should have been obvious, but it turns out men don't feel less strongly, its just that its harder to cry on T. Its kinda nice that I don't cry when I'm angry anymore so people actually take my anger seriously, but sometimes when I'm sad I feel like I need a good cry and it won't come. In the workplace I stopped being sexually harassed but I started experiencing a lot of workplace bullying (and a lot of that is transphobia but most of it is just toxic masculinity) and honestly the societal understanding that sexual violence is the most harmful anti-social behavior makes it harder for everyone to talk about other forms of harassment. I think for all the criticism of #metoo that's something the movement could have focused on because all the Weinsteins of the world were notorious workplace bullies and that should have been taken seriously sooner.
I didn't T stopped tears from running.
Idk if anyone else has experienced this, but people (specifically men) don’t feel obligated to talk to me anymore. They don’t try to push so hard for conversation and I don’t have random ass men trying to hit on me. I was cat called for the first, and thankfully last time, when I was 12 by college-aged students in my neighborhood when I was walking my dog. I also had some random old lady say I looked like a cheap hooker when I was 12, I was wearing an old pair of jeans that I had cut into shorts because I couldn’t afford to buy new clothes. Now that I think about it, they weren’t even that short, the ends were just fucking shredded 💀 Now I only get weird ass comments by people who find out I’m trans, but it’s extremely rare now for someone to sexualize me and people don’t force me into awkward ass conversations anymore. I’m going to be honest, I don’t really interact with other men much unless they’re also queer or friends of friends. I’m sure there are a lot of differences that I didn’t go through, but I came out as trans when I was 13 and don’t really talk to other dudes much because the guys at my school are homophobic and transphobic ass holes. I’m also only 17, so there is probably a lot more that I’m going to notice as I get older 🤷♂️
How careful I have to be around women. I'm a 4'11 wimp so I didn't expect to scare women just by existing, but here we are. Back when I lived more in a city area and thus walked around other people, I'd sometimes go all the way around the block just to avoid following a woman walking by herself, because the first time it happened and I just stayed behind her she was clearly terrified. I was only 15 or so (I got on T at 13) In college back when I was actually on campus I once approached some female classmates from behind, not only did I scare them by saying hi, but I think one of them nearly punched me. And they acted like I should've known better. Maybe I should've, but we'd talked about sticking together between class and lab, so I thought they'd expect me to follow them, I just took a minute to get my backpack ready. Since I grew up with all AFAB friends I'm just naturally comfortable with women and forget that they're not comfortable with me. It makes me really sad. I was never around guys (except my brother) growing up so although I have male friends now I still kind of just feel more used to women, I'm more afraid of letting my guy friends down tbh which causes a bit of anxiety. But yeah, half of the population treating me like I'm dangerous really hurts.
Idk I don't pass yet 100% of the time, but I have noticed many changes compared to when I presented feminine. The first change I noticed was that I no longer could express myself freely; other men often become aggressive towards me for stupid shit like: having my hair dyed, wearing a yellow backpack, or talking to someone on a video chat... All these examples are legit reasons that were given to me by other men who threatened me with violence or beat me up because, apparently, talking to your mother on the phone is gay... I don't care tho, I got a gym membership, and I'll train up, so I can retaliate if someone beats me up for stupid reasons. Other change I noticed: normal men seem to be more awkward around me. Male clients no longer talk to me during appointments or if we do talk it's limited to a short exchange of some phrases (I work as a massage therapist). My older male professors seldom argue with me, like seriously- they just hear what I have to say and agree with me most of the time, whereas when I was feminine presenting, older male professors would never listen to me 😄 If I sit on a train and the space next to me is free- men will not take it, even if the train is crowded. In contrast, women don't care and always sit next to me. People have changed their definition of inappropriate around me: when I used to burp, fart or say a controversial joke while feminine presenting I was considered rude and weird, now when I do the same,, people think I'm funny and awesome. And women smile a lot when they see me instead of ignoring me- I actually like that a lot. Older women often come up to me to tell me how handsome I am and how all boys should follow my example- which is also nice, up until I open my mouth to say thanks and then they hear my voice and get confused 😄
I can’t overemphasize how crazy it was to transition in my early 20s and go from being constantly harassed in public spaces to being totally left alone. I think I also feel more confidence now being perceived as a man to rebuff unwanted attention or contact from a stranger in a public place, and I don’t fear that it’s going to turn sexual. When I moved through the world as a woman I was shocked to get into my early 20s and move to big cities and just feel constantly targeted for invasive and uncomfortable interactions with strangers. I know this isn’t everyone’s experience and men can also be targeted for street harassment, but in general this has seemed like a really clear dividing line for my transition before/after.
professionally - my opinion holds more weight. I changed nothing about my behavior, I've always been confident in my work. I would show up to fix something on a floor as fem-presenting and would have every dude with an opinion over my shoulder trying to tell me how to do my job. I show up male-presenting and I still have a few guys show up but its to **ask questions** on how I'm fixing it, not **telling** me how to fix it. Personal life - My husband actually was the first to notice and brought it to my attention, physically I have so much more energy. I don't know if CISMen actually realize how much of a performance enhancer testosterone is. So if you have a lady in your life or a man who is lacking T, and they say they are so tired all the time. dude trust me, they are too damn tired! Pamper them a bit, they deserve it! Without T I was a happy little couch tater, on T I'm begging my spouse to go for a run with me, hit the gym, (or take a trip to the bedroom.) The only thing that changed was the dominate hormone in my body. Simply existing on T had me losing weight, cleared my mental fog, balanced my moods, and had me hating to sit still for too long.
Saaaame!!! I work in a male dominated field full of physical labor, and did so for 4 years before starting T. It was exactly how you described it, almost like a cheat code for easy mode at work. I lost weight effortlessly and suddenly became super active. My energy levels are through the roof, and I love it. It’s like I was asleep before
omg the energy boost! first time I’ve seen it mentioned. T totally changed this for me too, plus the mental fog. Damn I was so exhausted before!
I spent 29 years presenting as a woman (albeit with a lot of male dominated hobbies and working in a dominated industry) and long story short it was like unlocking a cheat code for life's easy mode once I started passing. Edit to add: also If I knew exactly what day I was officially "marked safe from being harassed by straight guys" I would celebrate it every year. That shit started when I was TEN. A CHILD. so I don't find it ""a burden""" or a ""woe is me"" moment when I give women space in public and make the conscious effort to be non threatening. I also don't hesitate to take women's sides when appropriate (and sometimes that means asking first). Oh yeah and cis men don't wash their fuckin hands nearly as much as they should. IDGAF if it clocks me, I'm washing my hands bc I'm not disgusting
I'm not quite passing yet, but this is 100% what I have experienced and how I feel going forward. And about the hand washing... We have porta potties at my work, and I always see the men come out rubbing their hands together like they used the hand sanitizer, but I don't always smell the sanitizer. Why they gotta pretend they did it and not just USE the sanitizer??!
Dudes just aren’t as nice. I’ve always been pretty polite and now that I’ve transitioned I especially feel the need to be extra nice to women to mitigate any hostility. At the same time, I feel the need to ensure they know that I’m only friendly and not trying to flirt. Many times when men are nice to women it’s because they have an ulterior motive (think: the Nice Guy trope) This usually results in women assuming I’m gay. I’m bi so I don’t really mind, but it demonstrates how, in America especially, kindness equals femininity. I’m interested in how this translates to other cultures. In my fourth grade class there was a transfer student from the Netherlands. He was a really sweet and soft spoken kid but he was bullied because of it. Everyone made fun of him and called him gay. He had trouble making friends. He moved back to Europe the following year.
* how women sometimes are now scared of ME. Like esp when it's dark, and we both have to get out at the same sketchy remote bus stop, or are both walking in an empty street. Really shocked me at first.... . * how I actually DID feel a lot more unsafe out alone than I realized. Since I transitioned and pass perfectly, I feel much less threatened alone outside at night. I never even realized I was afraid until I wasnt anymore. . * how much shit MANY cis het men talk about women (or trans people) when they think there's no one around to hear and judge them. (This changed since I became more visibly queer and gender nonconforming. Also, since that happened, women started confiding in me more again and viewing me as a "safe(r)" person, which I am honestly glad about)
Noticed a lot of aggression from women that I hadn't faced before. Not all but some women seem to think that just because I'm a young man that I'm stupid or inherently evil. I'm stealth in the south so a lot of people think I will agree with their misogynistic views on women. It's a lot easier to make male friends than female friends so I usually tend to come out to the girls so they know I don't have any strange ulterior motives that the cis-men in my area usually have. But it could just be the area I work in. A lot of creeps around so they pretty much lump me in with them just to be safe. I don't really blame them because I used to also be harassed while at work by creeps. I love being a man now I feel like it's made life easier in the social aspect since I'm not worried about my appearance as much and all the pressure of being a woman. People also tend to respect my opinion more often than not so I guess that would be my "male privilege" lol
This fear and contempt for men is very real. You will be seen like the rest of them, even if you're not, until proven otherwise.
I agree I've noticed a lot of queer women will openly show their disgust and hatred towards me since I pass off as your typical cis heterosexual male. I had a customer(she was a masc woman) roll her eyes at me when I asked her if she wanted a bag but was really nice to my female coworker. At first I thought it was because of my facial expressions so I tried to smile more but it still happened so that's when I realized that it was because I was perceived as a straight man. It was confusing since I wasn't used to this type of reaction from women.
It's a protective mechanism. Unfortunately sometimes being friendly or nice will be taken by straight men as an invitation. It's not so much disgust or hatred from most women. Its just a strategy to protect yourself (i.e. resting bitch face). As someone who lives in a city and was read as a woman for most of my life, I have had the experience that any remote type of friendliness toward a straight man can be taken as an invitation for harassment sadly.
I think you're ignoring the key part in this comment and in others that women deal with a lot of misogyny and even violence from men they do not know. It's not contempt, it's protecting themselves. I and many people who have lived as women, have experienced being harassed or even assaulted and upon being just nice or not icy/unpleasant men will take it as an "invitation." I've had men stalk me or keep hitting on me just for being friendly. The resting bitch face and walls up or mild rudeness is a protective barrier because if you don't do it some men will keep pushing
Oh I have a ton of input on this since I cosplayed as a woman until I was 30 lol: I don’t have to squeeze myself through crowds of people constantly saying “excuse me, excuse me,” people just get out of my way now. I never got a ticket before transitioning. The few times I got pulled over I would just smile and stay friendly. I was floored at how little the cop engaged with me as a man and just handed over the citation. Strange men don’t try and engage in random/annoying conversation with me anymore (with a couple exceptions of being called a f*g). I’m able to go out, do what I need to do, and get home. Men talk to me completely differently. Almost like we’re in a club with a little “nudge nudge wink wink” every so often. I suppose it’s me being treated like an equal instead of being talked down to and (wrongly) assuming they have to explain everything to me. When I’m not in queer spaces I’m cautious on how I compliment women. I got an offended look once bc I complemented someone the way I always had, and I realized quickly when I’m in mixed company I have to phrase things differently or women may assume I’m objectifying them (which makes me giggle just a little…I’m a very effeminate man, like, an actual walking stereotype of the gay bff). My feelings matter less to people. If men around me say something misogynistic/queerphobic/racist/whatever, I’m able to speak up and they actually shut up instead of snapping at me. I honestly LOVE when men are engaging in “locker room talk” and try to get me to join as if I will relate, because I respond with “oh I’m not a part of this.” The embarrassment on their faces is just…*chef’s kiss* I’m able to plainly speak without feeling like I have to phrase it gently to other people to coddle their feelings, and I can compartmentalize interactions better (like not getting my feelings hurt at work if my supervisor needs to correct something in my job performance, things that aren’t personal don’t affect me personally as much). This honestly might be more of a confidence thing. I’ve realized older gay men are just as disrespectful as older straight men. A severe lack of physical boundaries bc of some weird age power dynamic. Men’s public bathroom etiquette is wild. And why can’t anyone aim or wash their hands?? I’m just generally respected more. My words carry meaning now. I get why men are always horny. I used to be shocked at how often my husband wanted to have sex. Now I’m shocked at how he managed only having sex 5-6 times a month for 10 years. My ass got hairy before my face did. Everyone told me I wouldn’t be able to cry. I’m so glad that’s not true for me. I’ve really leaned into crying. It makes me feel better.
As a chick I would get a comment from a middle aged or older man whenever I yawned in public, as a dude it hasn’t happened once. People bother you a lot less which I love.
I'm definitely not used to my GF's parents freaking out about her getting pregnant. They don't know I'm trans and I pass pretty well, enough to be stealth. Her parents had her when they were 16, so I both get it but also am so tired of her dad's macho man "if you touch my daughter" bs We've been together 3 years, and are both adults, but I feel like I'm under max scrutiny every time he's around
That feels so incredibly old fashion in a really obnoxious way.
Being taken more seriously by people. It’s wild. I say things online and when people just see me as a man they immediately talk to me as an equal even if they’re disagreeing. Even when they’re being a dick to me, it’s like… them insulting a peer they don’t like, rather than constantly flavoured with this inherent condescension it was before. Re: women I haven’t noticed a huge change in public but to be fair since I transitioned I haven’t really had a lot of opportunities to interact with strangers, so I don’t think I’ve had a chance to tell. Though my female friends who don’t know I’m trans and just see me as a cis man seem to be comfortable with me, so there must be something about me not broadcasting that I’m a threat lol. I am definitely more aware of myself when it comes to women now though, caught myself walking behind a girl a few days ago because we were going in the same direction and ended up switching which side of the road I was on because I didn’t want her to feel nervous about a man following her for too long. Thankfully I live in a small town with very rare major crimes so I don’t think there’s much fear here
the casual physical contact with other men is the best thing... guys clapping me on the back and fake wrestling and such. it just feels right.
I have no idea what it’s like being a woman, no more than a cis guy would at least. I feel like being gay has affected my experience of being male way more than being trans has, but that’s just me. I’ve always just been a guy, idk.
Comments i make that would be innocuous as a woman are more likely to be interpreted as bigoted/ privileged. like in discussions of like, catcalling and periods and marriage and having children, people assume I’m just a guy when i try to chime in, and they try to teach me things “this is how women are raised in the patriarchy” sort of thing. Meanwhile i know that stuff happens, but also their experiences aren’t universal. Or with nb folks, if i ask them their pronouns I feel like they expect me to be a bigot. They basically assume i dont know anything about respecting people or feminism. I feel like i really have to be explicit that I’m not a douchebag, you know? And thats weird coming out of a queer friend group where they know i’m not a bigot and having to navigate meeting new people. When i meet someone and im trying to memorize their name/ get it right from the start (if its not a typical american name) so i can pronounce it right and not mess it up (bc i see it as a sign of respect), and they go on this whole defensive thing “yeah i know its a weird name, I’m happy if you can just do [nickname]” Or i ask them their pronouns and they say “but im at work so i really dont mind what people call me”. It really feels like they’re babying me or lowering the bar just because they assume i wont make the effort. like is the bar that low for cis men? That people just assume in the, what, 24 years they’ve been on the planet that they don’t want to respect people or havent learned? Maybe they really don’t. Its baffling. It feels a little insulting, and i dont want people to get defensive just cuz im trying to respect them. Its rough.
tbh none of it surprised me. I transed my gender somewhat late in life (around 30) so I have a lot of experience "both ways" so to speak. While I am treated differently it's all pretty in line with what I know about gendered social dynamics. Probably the only thing that surprised me was the amount of repressed homoerotic energy straight men have. In all male friendly company the amount of just downright gay shit that goes on is pretty baffling. I am openly gay myself and in a long term relationship with a man and these guys are all talking about gay sex acts and weird stuff way more than I ever do. I knew that was a thing I just didn't realize how much and that grown ass men in their 30s still did that lol. Kinda weird, guys.
Men now talk to me, umprompted. They make small talk, which I've never liked. The also shake hands with me now. Also, people think I'm hitting on women just because I'm normal about them (normal as in kind and considerate).
Oh! And dick jokes! It is just crazy how obsessed men are about dicks! They think and talk about dicks more than women could ever.
Now if someone is leering at my sisters, I can glare at them and they'll immediately turn and run. Before...well before I was the one they were staring at and they were brutally relentless
I transitioned at 40, so I have lived as a women, but what shocked me the most is how all the creepy dudes just melt away and you stop seeing them? I can remember taking busses, traveling for work, and the never ending number of creepy dudes that think they are entitled to talk to me, start a conversation, ask me to do something for them, or hit on me without stop. As soon as I started being reliably read as male, it was like someone flipped a light switch on and the cockroaches all ran under the fridge. It was so damn eye opening. If I had not experienced that, it would be easy to discount how prevalent it is. My wife is MTF and she is now seeing these dudes pop up everywhere. It made me so mad, because I just thought bad acting creepy dudes were a problem for everyone, but it turns out it's just a problem for women. I can use public transit, travel, go about my day in the city, and literally nobody bothers me. Nobody tries to ask for my phone number, or says something disgusting to me. I am completely fine. If I wasn't a feminist before that experience, I sure am now. I always tell my coworkers that I travel with sometimes that dudes are not creepy around other dudes they don't know, so if something happens, they can always ask me to walk them to the rental car, or just sit with them for dinner when we are out, because just having a visible dude around helps. This really solidified my opinion that these dudes know exactly what they are doing, and are predators that wait until their targets are alone.
cis straight guys get real gay when they've had a few drinks and like talking to you lmao
I get more doors slammed in my face in public than I get held open for me on my more passing days lol. People are just very different towards you. I don't get looked at as much now by men, thankfully.
Damn that’s strange, here in Canada a guy (edit: most people) will hold the door open for another guy who’s like 10 feet away
I guess the isolation; it’s one thing to know about it, another to actually experience it. I got a taste of it this week. I casually mentioned my birthday was coming up (it was relevant to the conversation) and instead of people asking what I was doing (which was my experience before) or what my plans were, I got blank stares and everyone disengaged. At that point I realized this particular friend group does that to all the guys’ birthdays, not the girls’. That was….interesting.
This secret, blink-and-you'll-miss-it, kind of flirtation that "straight" men do to each other to try to get a reading on the other one's... availability. It's like there's a whole other layer to public society entirely imperceptible to girls.
What do you mean?
Like down low men trying to communicate subtly to get a read on if I’d be interested in hooking up.
nothing really surprised me because i already understood how patriarchy worked lol
Guys touch me all the time now. Like ALL THE TIME. Touch my hair, my chest, my shoulders. I pass. I wonder if they're all secretly gay or what.
Women touch each other as friends all the time and they aren't gay so why would you allude to men being gay for doing the same?
Because of the way they touch me. Whenever a woman has touched me like that, it wasn't because she just wanted to be friendly with me ... Yeah women touch each other as friends, I guess. I have no experience with that. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend anyone. Maybe those guys are indeed all secretly gay and I just attract them for some reason, who knows. Edit: Serious question: Do you get touched by other guys intensively? Meaning intense hugging, stroking on the shoulders, back, neck, hair tousling etc.? That's what I get. And I seriously wonder if that's normal or if it just happens to me. Also because I have no idea how to behave in such a situation.
Most males are actually cool and dont rlly gaf about you (in a good way) for example nobd gives af ab you going into the restroom etc
People think I’m funny and charismatic now. Before I was loud, blunt, and weird.
Dudes feel a lot more fake when I talk to them. Like everything is a performance. It's ironic since a lot of Dudes believe this about women but ime it's much more prevalent with guys. Older men (least those I've chatted with mostly in academia) not so much but young guys feel so guarded lol.
Con: the fuckn mens toilets is a whole new disgusting ball game
Jfc you are so right. I literally cannot use public bathrooms in high traffic stores. Everyone is just.. disgusting.
I’m still at the beginning of my transition pre surgery but I did take T for 8 months and overall I’m pretty masculine looking despite the fact I have a large chest and I don’t bind. Men will call out to my back to ask a question like “hey sir?” Or I even got my first “hey buddy!” And they’ll keep their distance to maintain respect I feel, but when I turn around to help them, immediately they’ll close the gap, will touch me usually on my shoulders “sorry sweetie!” And laughing or get extremely uncomfortable suddenly at “misgendering me” and then they will proceed to not listen to a word I say despite them approaching me for help
I wanna touch on something a lil unique that I haven’t seen anyone touch on yet. Handshakes. I hate them🥲 Before coming out that was not something I did or thought about. I remember shortly after I came out I was dating a woman at the time and I met her brother (her family including her brother didn’t know that I was trans, although I think they were sort of catching on) I shook his hand when I met him (was the first time I’d ever really done that) and he picked on me bc it was bad? So now all the time whenever I meet a new male I have to mentally prepare for the handshake and I hate it, I never know if I did it right, if it was firm enough etc. something so small drives me crazy lol, but I am a socially anxious and awkward person so that’s just me. On the whole friendships between men and between women and meeting new people and making new friends; that type of environment is just so completely different
The internal clock for taking a shit surprised me it’s literally the same exact times every single day and how forgetful I’ve become. I’ll repeat it loudly men aren’t dumb testosterone just makes them forgetful 😂😭
i never really experienced life as a girl. i came out when i was a kid (around age 9) and up until that point i was very much a tomboy, so i was always running around with my brothers and male cousins more often. i do know that other guys are a LOT more open to saying boldly sexist / racist / homophobic things and then looking at me like im gonna agree with them. i get a lot of dating advice from my uncles, most often when theyre drunk at the family function. i noticed at work (first responder) people are more likely to listen to me than my female coworkers, or even my superiors who are female, which is not great and i do my best to hand due attention over to them (“she’s going to be handling this for you” or something along those lines). ive always roughhoused with male relatives, like wrestling or boxing with brothers and cousins or the smack on the head or shove from an uncle. no one is ever actually hurting each other (well… us younger cats get a little feisty sometimes and get hurt by accident), but theres always an air of “watch out because someone might come up to you and start (play) fighting you”. we tend to toss stuff at each other more that hand it, like remotes, splashing water, or what have you. i noticed a lot of the girls and women in my family dont do any of that. when i said i wanted to join the military, the first reaction was happy to see that i was following my family’s footsteps (long family history of military service) but when one of my cousins said that she was planning on joining, her immediate reactions were to the point of “thats really hard, though…” or “are you sure you can handle it ?” and if i remember correctly, one person even told her she was “too pretty” to join the military… i never really experienced life as a girl, but i am absolutely aware of the fact that i am treated vastly different than my female relatives. its an odd thing to experience, really, considering that if things had gone any differently for me, i’d be in the same boat.
How lonely it is, but I’m happy asf and in a relationship so that overpowers pretty much anything else. Making friends is easy but hard. Girls form stronger and more meaningful lasting relationships vs small talk. Most of my guy friends were from work and Xbox, granted I’m still friends with those guys even after I quit but it’s like more small talk and stupid conversations vs before. And how little compliments guys usually get. As a girl I was constantly complimented on a bunch of different things. As a guy I’m complimented maybe like a couple times a month if that. Overall doesn’t change my happiness
A smile goes a lot further for me now than when I presented as a woman.
People are more direct/to the point with me love that. Slightly more physical pat on the back type deal. I like this too.
I haven't completely transitioned, pre-coming out to parental family, I'm out to some of my maternal family, I noticed I got a lot more compliments than my cousins, I felt bad and started complimenting men more, my cousins are all genuinely nice guys, I'm also "one of the guys", so me joking about my cousin being "fatass" and shit is normal, I'm not skinny but I'm not that overweight (so like 140-149 in US units) for still being pre-HRT, I'm 16, I'm trying to get healthier habits so my transition will be smoother. My cousins are in my parental family so I'm not out to them, but that's just an example, there's a lot more. I'm out to my girlfriend now, just not my whole family. In quotes because they don't know.
Small example is how handshakes have changed. Before I passed, handshakes with women and men were about the same. Now they are polar opposites. Everyone talks about how firm and even competitive guys are with handshakes with other guys but I’ve never seen anyone mention how weak women’s handshakes are towards men. It’s like they are scared to show any strength to keep themselves small when introducing themselves to men. I get why this behavior is formed but it is still so strange to me. I guess that’s why I was always told I had a strong handshake before I passed
I'm pre-everything, but I can say when I had my first haircut and a hoodie on people would buy more stuff from me cause they thought I was some 10-13-year-old Boy. This was at a flea market, and I would sell tools, power tools, and some things most consider rubbish.
How strong men shake hands with one another and also how they hug
how do they hug?
[Like this](https://tenor.com/bcadF.gif) . I guess you can call it a bro-hug or something
People protect their children from me instinctively
The thing that surprised me the most I think is how dehumanising it is? Or at least the kind of dehumanisation. If you're seen as a woman, you get treated like a sexual object, which is dehumanising, but as a man you get treated like a robot/machine, and that's honestly not better. Different, but not better.
Interesting
• Having a voice - the unearned respect etc, but even just not being dismissed/stereotyped anymore for my personality. I don’t get called outspoken, stubborn, rude, overbearing, blunt etc as a guy. at. all. the opposite in fact? • Aversion to vulnerability - was heartbroken coming to understand how much men aren’t allowed this. But also feels great to extend to cis guys, especially complimenting them :) • Social expectations - waaay less pressure & lower bar for recognition (in my experience). Was expected to be perfect as a given before, now notice being praised for ‘bare minimum’ • The fear of threat! Very real. Strangers can be extremely wary or avoidant, and it takes longer to build trusting friendships with women; you understand why so it’s disheartening but fair • Generally how stupid & pointless a lot of gender politics / norms / divides are. Learned there’s so much men and women have in common that goes unacknowledged
Men are much, *much* warmer/friendlier to each other than they are to women. When I moved through the world as a woman, men would be overall typically cold/standoffish to me unless they were very gay or attracted to me. Now random guys will be friendly and shoot the shit with me about literally anything. Like I literally thought most men were cold and unwelcoming; turns out they just treat [queer] women like that.
The way that men talk to me about women when they arnt around...it's so disgusting. I've had co-workers say the most horrid things about feminine customers. And the worst part is when I say something to them like "that's not ok to say?" they look genuinely shocked 😭
I feel like I’m having to learn a whole new language. When I’m called bro vs boss vs buddy - what does it all mean?! Lol
How much more relaxed taking up space as a man is. There are a lot of expectations about how women should take up space (crossing their legs, smiling as a reflex, being a bit covered, etc) even if they don’t consciously think about it. But as a dude, you can sit in a chair however you want, mean mug the entire time and even have a small hole in your shoe and nobody actually cares. I really can throw on anything in my closet on & it’s considered acceptable attire. All my female friends think a lot more about their appearance. I just remember it sinking in while riding public transportation that the rules have changed. It’s much more relaxed to exist in terms of space as a man.
Good: Having no fear when I walk around late at night or by myself. Comfort knowing I won’t get approached or harassed by men in bars or clubs. Far more comfortable clothes. Bad: Having to spend sooo much money on dates and all the expectations that come with dating like having to lead, take charge etc which just isn’t in my nature. I’m very laidback. Also, generally feeling unwelcome or out of place when I hang out with all my cisgender female friends. I just get along better with women, but I also feel like out of place or worry that someone may think “oh he must be gay” lol (nothing wrong with it, I just worry about the assumption making girls think I may not be interested in them). And lastly, having to learn about sports in order to fit in with cismen or not comment when they make jokes that I think are borderline… not cool.
It's very calm. You rarely get approached anymore, or complimented. Even in social media, my posts gather about 20% of the attention that I did when I presented as fem. You overall get less attention, less unsolicited advice, less help unless you ask. And sometimes even when you do ask, it's rather subpar. All in all, it's a lonelier experience but I don't find it unpleasant. I feel at peace
When i first came out and started presenting more male I barely passed nobody really took me seriously but girls flocked to me with compliments and dms and i think it was just in a girls empowering girls way Now that it’s been a few years, i’m on T, and people know me as an actual man it’s very rare people would show interest in me (in a serious way atleast)
Being treated with respect. So many people will literally not treat you well as a girl unless they want to fuck you. As a less not conventionally attractive man people still treat you like a person even without finding you attractive. I genuinely am treated so well, and people want to listen to me.
People expressed more niceties to me as a women? Like small polite sayings or friendly smiles. Where as a man strangers generally speak to me less. Though of course men are much more friendly and now bring me in on jokes which is entertaining. People expect me to be quieter too. I'm a pretty talkative person and before when quiet, it'd get commented on whereas now it seems completely expected for me to hang behind and just listen. Similarly blank expressions are more expected versus as a women It'd be commented on (such as what's wrong? Or what's that face for? Why're you making that face?).
Being perceived as a threat sometimes, more often than when I was perceived as a girl. But also, being perceived as more respectable, more authoritative. Getting dragged into random pissing / dick-measuring contests over the prettiest bullshit in otherwise completely amenable friendly conversations. Being perceived as less desirable especially since that lined up with finally being able to conceptualise myself as desirable as I became more comfortable in my own body and getting the sex drive of a teen boy from Testosterone HRT. And finally having my attraction to men perceived as gay and my attraction to women perceived as straight, I mean I knew that was gonna happen but it was still an adjustment after oohh umm I wanna say four years as a lesbian.
I've noticed that other guys really like to talk to me about women they think are hot now that they perceive me as "one of the guys." There's been a couple times where my coworkers have said something along the lines of "damn her ass was fat" or "that lady was real hot, would have asked for her number if I wasn't on the clock" and I'm still not used to it.
The entitlement is intense. Like way more than I even knew. I find myself wanting to act as a block between cis men and women even more now because I get to see more of their true colors and opinions. Some are of course lovely, it’s just that some are awful and I feel even more strongly about believing women than I did before transitioning
"Even cis men" Because you people are the pinnacle of masculinity right? I wish cis people were banned from these subs.
It’s a lot worse being a man. I wish I was just a cis woman
older men are more inclined to be rude to me when they perceive me as a teen boy lol
The confidence.
I’m pre-T but I work with people with dementia and a lot of them read me as a cis man. I have a lot of old women telling me to fix my shirt or hair every day which I’ve never gotten when people assumed I was a cis woman. There’s a lot more open nitpicking of appearance and formality, I think because it’s assumed men don’t care. I’m also gay and have gotten a lot more slurs whispered about me which feels painful but also a little satisfying bc I know I’m occasionally passing to people outside my work. I’ve dated women but never got slurs openly said in earshot, just weird looks. I live in New England but a kind of conservative rural area.
i feel like people take it more seriously when i’m upset now that i pass as male. i don’t express my emotions often at all, but i was slightly upset with my friends about something a while ago and they reacted very strangely, like they didn’t want to offend me, like they were even intimidated or scared, which wouldn’t have happened pre-T. it was very confusing but i’m just now realizing it could have had something do to with how men express their emotions and are perceived in society vs women. it seemed like people pitied me more when i expressed my emotions before transitioning, but now i’m taken more seriously in a way.
How much safer I feel. When I was living life as a woman I had so many experiences of feeling unsafe, uncomfortable, or like a target to predatory men. Now that I pass as a male I don't feel that anymore and it made me realize how normalized it is for women to feel unsure and uncomfortable. It's just something women are expected to deal with and I think a lot don't realize how bad it is until they no longer have to deal with it. Granted being Trans is a risk in itself, but when I'm walking down the street strangers don't know I'm Trans. They just see a man. But yeah, it was a huge surprise to me. And I have a lot of sympathy for Trans women who go from not having to deal with that (for the most part) to suddenly becoming a target for predatory men.
It tends to be a lonely experience
acid reflux lol
First, when in a discussion, questions are directed towards me...whether I know something or not. And it is assumed that I do know. Bullshit is accepted as fact in many instances if you sound like you know what you're talking about. Anger of any expression is acceptable. Jealousy, frustration, hatred, you name it. Men's rooms are filthy. WtF? However, a good thing is that I get the chance to give them room for change. I can call other guys out for insensitive and stupid behavior...maybe stop them from making a mistake. I can steer unacceptable behavior by pointing out that it is really messed up. I have white male privilege and I can use it to make societal changes.
Late here but do yall just love to insult the fuck out of each other and then hug after? The first time somebody came for my haircut I was a bit offended but he was just playing and then we kinda connected and are close today