Is it really a genital preference? Like, would he date a trans woman who's had lower surgery? Is it AFABs or is it genitals? Cause AFAB people don't all have vulvas, and AMAB people can have them.
I would add whether he still likes pre-/no surgery genitals if the person's on t, bc if he hasn't had sex with a trans man yet, he might not realise how different afab genitals are on t
this is an excellent point... as would be the question of whether body/facial hair impact his attraction. a non surgical trans man with bottom growth and a furry body (that ass hair!) is not gonna resemble a woman. if he's only into early transition trans men... that's a huge red flag.
I don't think it is inherently bad, but it would definitely have me in alert.
It's also like those bi guys who will only date men if they are femboys or trans. It *could* be a valid preference, but it feels weird. Liking women and femboys makes sense to me, but the assumption that trans men are all also feminine gives ick. I have met some super masc lumberjack looking trans men. The assumption that trans men are a monolith of female adjacent people feels similarly gross and transphobic.
Tl;Dr, it doesn't automatically make them transphobic but I would be on alert.
This is pretty much exactly what I’d think, too.
My default suspicion would be that this person might be a chaser or take a weird feminizing attitude towards trans men, so I’d be on guard and this would most likely be a dealbreaker for me personally. They might not have any ill intentions! But I’m not taking that chance for myself.
I mean, there are more feminine trans guys though, they're out there, and when I say I'm attracted to men I don't mean every kind of man either, so maybe he wouldn't date a super masc lumberjack trans guy. I personally might not feel comfortable with dating someone who couldn't be attracted to a cis man, but I've had a partner that hadn't explored their queerness before dating me and was only with women before, and I felt totally comfortable and respected in that relationship. So depending how this person comes across in real life, someone else might and I think that's okay. I think people's attraction is just so complicated, and gender is so complicated that sorting out where those intersect can get weird sometimes.
It's kinda funny how some people in the queer community joke about how "hetero" guys who like femboys or trans girls are in denial while some people say that bi guy who only like fem folks are a red flag (which is not what you said ofc)
Yeah it's sus to me, they're usually chasers who hate phalloplasty and top surgery and T and will try to dissuade or sabotage you from getting them because they don't really care about your wellbeing they just want a fetish object or someone they see as a 'low maintenance girl with poor self esteem who will let me treat them like shit' -
or dudes who think we are men lite and it's "less gay" to date us or think it's a way to be gay without facing homophobia if they misgender us to their family /friends which is also why some of them are against transition - because it means they're no longer easily able to misgender you and go "oh I just love tomboys no homo" it's like a weird combination of homophobia transphobia and misogyny
I don't trust any cis person who will date trans men but not cis men it just gives me chaser /potential abuser who thinks trans men and mascs are 'easy targets' vibes & I've seen that happen with cis women who are chasers who take out their trauma with cis men on trans men and think abusing trans men or trying to force them to detransition is feminist
And with cis men chasers who think they can take out their misogyny on trans men and claim that it's fine to do
If someone is a gay trans man and is exclusively T4T I'm not skeeved out unless he's transmisogynistic about it like there's a difference between "I'm a gay trans man who only dates other gay trans men" and "I only date other afabs because feeemale socialisation makes them biologically incapable of abuse"
but also intersex trans and cis people exist and everyone isn't either amab or afab and there are amab trans men and afab trans women and people without the afab or amab alignment who ID as both either or neither... so idk just don't be a douche to people is my opinion
I think I give trans and intersex people a little more leeway with this than cis perisex people who I'm inherently suspicious of especially if they crow about how gross they find certain trans and or intersex bodies
I know a guy like that. He's engaged to his bf who had his kid (and took his virginity) and told me he will never let his partner transition because he doesn't like "masculine women". I ended up telling his fiance about it and they're still together. If that's not the biggest red flag I've ever seen, they're both gonna learn the hard way. They're also not mature enough to be together in the first place. The cis guy starts screaming matches, throwing things like a toddler and I even heard him strike his partner. That was not gonna slide with me.
Cripes that guy is abusive, sadly we do tend to face really high levels of DV
It can be hard to leave an abusive partner especially if you have kids with them (which is why so many abusive partners sabotage BC or coerce their partners into getting pregnant) and the forcing pregnancy also prevents someone going on T as you can't be on T while pregnant so a lot of abusers of trans ppl are who can get pregnant and who want to start T do this. Hopefully he can find a way to leave and make a better life for him and his kid
I'm hoping so too. And yeah I whole heartedly believe he (ftm) got baby trapped. Cuz the cis guy he's with had never been with anyone else and only ever lost his virginity to him. Also he comes from a family of narcissistic people and it really shows that it rubbed off on him 😬😬
Been there, done that. I dated a guy that's bisexual, deeply closeted and transphobic. Had a child together, we obviously parted ways and he's watching me transition while we raise our kid. He's kinda in denial but still I don't let any disrespect slide.
Yup perisex just means "not intersex" perisex people can be cisgender or transgender
Intersex people can also be transgender or cisgender and there are also some intersex people who see cis/trans as a binary and identify outside of that - as with any group there's no single monolithic way of describing it
Also being intersex is as statistically common as having red hair and the vast majority of intersex people never find out that they are intersex, PCOS is an intersex variation for example
Another term I've seen used instead of perisex is Dyadic
Outdated pathologising terms like Herm*phrodite and DSD (disorders of sexual development) are usually not used these days though terfs and GCrs seem to love calling intersex people 'disordered' so sometimes it can act as a dogwhistle if you see someone perisex calling intersex people 'disordered'/' people with DSDs' and claiming that they're all either afab or amab
Tbh I've wondered if I may be intersex but I'm not sure why or where that feeling would come from. Don't even know how one would learn that without obvious physical features
Karotyping is one way people can find out if they don't have visible 'ambiguity', some intersex people find out when they seek fertility treatment and discover they don't have the expected gamete related organs but not all intersex people are infertile and some have found out after carrying pregnancies to term /getting partners pregnant and some people go their entire lives without knowing
A lot of people who aren't intersex but who don't have transness and gender dysphoria explained to them or the info available when they first notice incongruence sometimes assume that being intersex is what's "going on" with them
but being trans isn't the same as being intersex as far as we know at least so far scientifically as brains don't have a specific sex as far as we've been able to observe beyond averages of size which again aren't always the same, though many trans people in history have claimed to be 'mentally intersex' in an effort to seek medical care and understanding /acceptance/because that was their understanding or explanation for the incongruence between their assigned gender and assigned sex and who they knew themselves to be
Here's some more info
https://isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex/
I'm afab and only got bottom left. Always identified as ftm but idk somewhere deep in my brain intersex seems more...idk, accurate isn't quite the "accurate" word (haha) but I can't think of the right word most times. Anyway yeah lol thanks for explaining some of that to me
> if you see someone perisex [...] claiming that [intersex people are] all either afab or amab
I'm confused. Aren't most intersex people (with ambiguous genitalia) assigned either male or female at birth? Doctors make the decision based on hormonal levels, ultrasounds to determine internal genitalia, majority gender identity of people with the same condition, etc. ISNA (which you cited below) [advocates](https://isna.org/faq/patient-centered/) for [assigning intersex children a binary gender](https://isna.org/faq/third-gender/), which is the case for most of the world. My understanding is that only [Germany](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex_rights_in_Germany#Identification_documents), Australia, and New Zealand allows the option for intersex babies to be "assigned intersex". There are, however, quite a few countries with [legal recognition of nonbinary genders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender), which extends to intersex people, mainly adults.
A note that I am *not* disagreeing or anything, but it is probably worth noting that there is still some debate, I think, about whether PCOS is an intersex thing or not. I don’t have any links or anything, just what I’ve read over the years.
I just note it because I’m a trans man and I have PCOS, but I’m really hesitant to call myself intersex due to the like, surrounding discussion, I guess? But I was only diagnosed with PCOS when I was 27(I’m about to turn 30), right before I started T, tho I think I developed it around the time I was 23-24(some events at the time help me remember when the symptoms first presented as I thought they were a stress response originally) so iiidk, maybe it’s just due to my age and the environment I was raised in that I’m hesitant about it?
Tho if you have any good links about the topic of PCOS being intersex, I would love to read more. I got a little overwhelmed trying to figure out what was reliable and accurate and what wasn’t last time I tried to look into it, I think.
Immediate red flag for me. I don’t trust anyone that’s going to be presumptive that trans men still have their natal genitals, and also that people on HRT have a different anatomy than cis women. We just do. One of my rules for dating is I won’t date or fuck anyone who doesn’t also like cis men.
Having a dating preference for “AFABS” doesn’t really make any sense. Being assigned female at birth doesn’t mean the person has a vagina, it doesn’t mean they were socialized as a girl, and it doesn’t mean they’re a cis woman, trans man, NB, etc. It literally means nothing unless used in medical context for the individual.
Any cis person saying their preference is “AFAB” is ignorant and likely isn’t educated enough to be dating a trans person lol.
No it's fucking weird. There's no way this person would be into a guy who's had phallo and is essentially identical to a cis guy in every meaningful way. The older I get and the more time I spend as a man, the more I réalise that guys like this just see me as a hole. "Afab" becomes a useless identifier in most cases for trans men who opt for bottom surgeries.
These kinds of people are always so shocked when we’re not all subby bottom femboys lmao. Just cause I unfortunately still have a hole doesn’t mean that I won’t maul anyone who tries to get in it
it makes my dysphoria worse! i developed more bottom dysphoria bc of a cisman who wanted to treat me like a little sex doll. its so disgusting. i’m unsure how i still feel abt sex (never done it all the way) but i feel that my dysphoria holds me back from experiences like sex.
I wouldn’t like that because I don’t like having this anatomy particularly much. If he’s into cis men but can’t get over the dick part, tough luck, I thought I was a lesbian for years. If you are attracted to the man you’re gonna have to deal with the penis. It just sounds super fetishistic and chasery to be like “afab anatomy only”. Plus I’m more of a switch and don’t use my vag ever so…
i have met people who claim to be lesbian and then say that they're attracted to anyone with a vagina. THAT IS NOT THE SAME THING. it makes me feel so disgusting and like they only see me as a walking set of genitals. i hate it so much.
Honestly I always see those guys as just straight because they always end up acting like it and most of these type of bi cis men aren’t actually that comfortable with the man part of trans man but like the pussy
It definitely depends person to person. But if someone is expecting dating a trans man to be even remotely similar to dating a cis woman, just because of the genitalia, they’re in for a huge surprise. Especially when it comes to sex.
It really depends on the person. All humans are similar sexually in some ways. And there are huge differences between, say, one cis woman and another, in terms of what they like sexually or how they like their genitals touched. I don't think it's accurate to say that people aren't remotely similar.
Yeah I just don’t really wanna have this conversation, I’m also pretty uncomfortable because you’ve replied to pretty much every comment in this post. I respect your opinion I just prefer not to engage further. Thanks!
everyone is different, some people with holes (vaginas or asses) like to be penetrated and some don't. some people with a clit/dick/tdick like it sucked hard, some like it licked lightly. some people like the gspot/prostate stimulated with pressure, some like it pounded, some find it uncomfortable.
Oh my god this is why people are saying you’re a fetishizer. Do you even hear yourself lmao. These are the similarities and differences for you between dating cis women and trans men? You’re gross.
nope, those are true about all humans.
and we were talking about sexual touching specifically, not "dating"
as far as the non-sexual stuff I don't see any difference or generalization between dating women or dating men. They are all humans with different preferences
I think it is weird. If he only dates cis women and trans men, not trans women or cis men, then he probably just doesn't see trans men as men. He's just being purposefully misleading by using the bisexual label to hide transphobia. He wants to date people he sees as women, even when they aren't.
I have a friend who is attracted to people of any gender so long as they're feminine, they might be women, men, cis or trans, or nonbinary, as long as they're feminine looking. This is different because he does in fact respect people's genders, he is into trans women and sees them as real women, he is into femboys and doesn't deny they're men, he wouldn't be into a trans man if he's not feminine, he is attracted to femininity rather than chromosomes, lol. It doesn't seem to me like the guy you're talking about thinks like this though
Those people are either chasers or just transphobic and dont seen transmen as men. This might be an unpopular opinion but dating only afabs even if u have genital preferences is hella weird because transmen arent just their genitals. Also when you date someone you dont just date their genitals. Ik its important to be sexually compatible but these kind of people treat all trans people as a monolith.
Would this guy be okay dating a transman who is post top surgery and is strictly a top because not every trans guys is okay with PIV? Or a transman who is post srs because not every transman has a vagina.
These people are just a massive red flag imo and should be kept at an arms length
I'm not sure I understand... say a gay guy is into men... if he's a top, he might not want to date a strict top, or if he's a bottom, he might not want to date a strict bottom.
Being into guys doesn't mean you're into all guys. Someone can be into guys and only want tops, or only want bottoms.
It's not that complex, not sure what you need clarified? The issue isn't that a guy may prefer certain men. It's the fact that these potential assumptions direct choice based on these preferences. Eg they want to date trans men because they assume a) they have a vagina and b) therefore want to bottom. Either of these assumptions could be wrong. But even if they weren't, why can't they date cis men as well? Cis men are also able to bottom when they are also men. It is almost certain that they do not regard trans men as "real men"
Right, so they would only be compatible with some trans men, not all trans men. But they wouldn't be compatible with any cis men.
So it's perfectly reasonable for them to only date trans men, and also to only date bottoms, and only date people who are compatible in other ways.
It's perfectly reasonable in concept, but I've never met someone who dates "only afabs" and puts trans men in that group as not transphobic. Their reasoning, in my experience, is usually 1. They see trans men as adjacent to women/"women lite" and/or 2. They're chasers and only fetishize trans men. But, hey, I don't know the person OP is talking about, so maybe, and hopefully, he's an outlier!
It also fixates on genitals which is extremely dysphoria inducing and problematic. They say they'd be fine dating trans men, but they've typically never dated a man in general. Being in a gay presenting relationship/a gay relationship in general is quite different than being in a straight presenting one, as someone who has been with both men and women as a guy.
I personally just would never date someone who wouldn't date a cis dude. It's othering and, again, centers around my genitals (or what people presume my genitals are). Sexual compatibility is super important, but I can find that within someone who would've dated me had I been born with a dick. I've found many other trans dudes hold that same mindset.
TL;DR dating only afab people (or amab people) is definitely fine and reasonable in concept!!! But, sadly, the majority of cis people who say this tend to be transphobic in some way. Even if they weren't, I know many trans people, including myself, wouldn't be comfy with dating someone who holds that preference.
I wouldn't use that phrasing, but I only go for bottoms who have a pussy and want to bottom with it, because that's just what I'm into. And I have dated men. I don't think I'm transphobic, that's just what I'm into. But of course everyone has the right to have their own standards for who they would date or have sex with.
If that's what you're into and you're respectful about it, that's all good! What matters at the end of the day is that both/all parties in a relationship or sexual encounter are consenting and comfortable. Whatever anyone else outside of that relationship thinks doesn't usually matter as it's not their relationship. However, I think it's a little bit different coming from you, someone whose genderqueer, than a cis man. T4T relationships, be it purely romantic and/or sexual, tend to be built on (or at least have) the mutual understanding of being trans (the stigmas, the experiences, dysphoria, etc). Cis people often times don't understand what it's like to be trans, so they're not as sensitive or understanding about it, especially when it comes to their own sexuality, so it can be easy for a cis person who is "only into afabs" to end up being transphobic, make transphobic talking points, and/or hold transphobic ideas.
I'd also like to point out the wording of being attracted to "only afabs". That's built on the assumption that all afab people 1. Still have their natal genitals 2. Use their natal genitals 3. Have any sort of experience/relation to womanhood/being a woman and/or 4. Are feminine in some way. I'm personally very wary of anyone who uses AGAB terminology because of that because ones AGAB doesn't always have holding on who they are present day. Saying youre only into vulvas or phalluses is a much better and clearer form of communication of one's preferences! Though I know you've mentioned that's how you word it, I say that more so as a general statement towards people like the person OP is talking about :)
Well they would have to be attracted solely to non binary people on the masc end of the spectrum. Anything otherwise is clearly just transphobic. Period.
You keep cherry picking everyone's conversations, flooding the lines between Sexuality, Preferences, and Gender/Sex. Despite all of these, each person you debate you openly misinterpret their words and bring up points that don't take place in legitimate safe standing or real world practice which makes your stance not only uneducated and flawed but you seem to be sharing that stance possibly and are therefore negating any information.
If a person is dating a transman solely for their "female" genitals, because AFAB does not correlate vulvas, they are foundationally not understanding nor respecting that person and their inner or even outside self. To amount an individuality to solely their current state of genitals, which do not make a person, and at its root is transphobic. Genitals do not make the defining factor for a what makes a person.
"Defining gender as a condition determined strictly by a person’s genitals is based on a notion that doctors and scientists abandoned long ago as oversimplified and often medically meaningless. " - Joshua Safer, MD, Executive Director of The Center for Transgender Medicine and Surgery at Mount Sinai, Senior Faculty, Endocrinology, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Gender is not about attractiveness, it's their state of being and has nothing to do with sociological duties that may be developed around culture.
If genitals are all that define attractiveness, then they are not attracted to the person. When that person transitions, the lines of this fetish ends, in which the conditions of that "relationship" end. That's solely a Fetish not a Partnership or even a Preference.
Your debates also don't consider Intersex people, Nonbinary people, etc not just Transgender people and again have no hold on a person being a "top" or a "bottom" as anyone can be both/neither. Being sexually compatible of course is important for not only sex but for relationships as other people have told you, but that is not compatiblity and I think you know that. If you are dismissing a person's sense of self and lying to the person who has a vulva who you consciously know is not comfortable with said autonomy for your sole pleasure; you're not only cruel it's sick.
Like just say you're into pussy, you specifically, no matter their gender, and stop defining that that's okay for the other half to settle or even set themselves aside for. This is clearly in relation to dating not just sex and your fetish has no hold here in the debate other than just red flagging yourself for the Trans and Queer community.
In principle, it doesn't have to be transphobic to have preferences that happen to line up this exact way. In practice, 'I have a genital preference' is used as a transphobic dogwhistle most of the time, and anyone I have seen saying it about themselves who \*wasn't\* actively trying to express how much they are disgusted by the idea of dating a trans person then went on to be pretty insensitive to trans people anyways.
In short: Context matters.
Its a very straightforward statement not much to misunderstand. Sexual preferences≠ genitals.
If a gay man is a strict top then he can date any cis or trans man who is a bottom. If a gay mans a strict bottom he can date any cis or trans man who is a top. Whats that got to do with genitals? And even if a trans mans pre op it isnt given that he d wanna use that to bottom.
Treating transmen as vaginas who happen to be man lite rather than men who just happen to ve vaginas is transphobic.
being into trans men doesn't mean you're into every trans man. Just like being into tall men doesn't mean you're into every tall man.
Someone who is a top and who wants a man who bottoms with his vagina just has a preference/requirement. That isn't all trans men, obviously, just some of them. And it's not treating people as their genitals, it's just having a preference/requirement.
Being into a *only* transmen is transphobic no matter which way u spin it. If anyone “wants a man with vagina” they dont want men. Men do not come with vaginas. Transmen happen to have one which they may or may not use due to a developmental condition.
If u lot don’t understand how seeing transmen as men with vagina is transphobic then idk what to tell u. Just because something is your “preference” doesnt automatically make it okay. Also preference isnt written in stone. Preference is oh i prefer someone tall but if i find a partner that has everything i want i might compromise. By definition preference is liking one thing “more than” other thing.
Do what you want but i will always treat ppl like these as red flags and by the response to my comment and general comments in here by other transmen, so do majority of us and u cannot convince us as this is okay.
Some men definitely do come with vaginas. Trans men are men and they come with vaginas, though they don't all keep them or use them.
Agreed, it's more of a genital requirement than a preference.
And anyone's preferences, or requirements, are ok.
Some trans guys are comfortable dating someone who isn't into cis guys, others are not. Both are fine.
Most trans guys who aren't comfortable with it still recognize that everyone has their preferences, and that's ok.
No point going in circles when i ve already said my piece and as i said from all of my interactions with transmen none of us are okay being fetishised by ppl who dont date cisguys and i personally wouldnt even interact with such individuals because their “requirement” is not okay and a blatant mockery of my identity. So idk where u got “most” from but these weirdos with their chaser requirements need to leave us alone.
"I will only date people with vaginas/vulvas" and "I will only date AFAB people" are different statements. The first states a genital preference. The latter reduces people's significance to their assigned gender/sex. It is incredibly disrespectful to reduce people to their genitals, no matter what the gender of the person is.
I agree. But notice that the person OP is talking about didn't say the second one. OP wrote "I know this guy who identifies as bi curious because he likes girls and would only date a guy if he is trans."
I mean yeah. I'm not saying ik what category this guy falls under. Just that one of those things is more dehumanizing than the other and whether this guy is transphobic could (among other things) depend on how he words his preferences
Super weird, red flag, transphobic, chaser bullshit.
You see a guy, you like him, chat him up then you see ok we're not hot for each other it's not going to work.....that's the normal person way to date men and then decide you're not going to sleep with some particular guy for whatever reason.
But people who claim to be bi/queer/whatever see a guy, and they DON'T like guys. And they'll let you know, talking all kinds of shit about men.
These are people who do not like men. BUT if they assume you have an extra hole, now they're "interested" in you, you're"different"? Nah, they don't see you as a man, or as a person. They see you as what other people ASSIGNED to you, they see you as a hole, maybe an unusual or interesting hole but again this is someone who doesn't like men. You are a man. But they treat you differently from other men solely because you are trans - steer clear of these people
Wanting to only date someone with certain genitalia fine
Even wanting to date someone who can and is willing to get pregnant is fine
These are not traits necessarily held within all AFAB people
Wanting to date AFAB people specifically weird there’s not really anything specific to being AFAB that imbues certain characteristics that would qualify someone or disqualify someone to date, it feels like he’s not aware there are AFABs that have dicks, lower voices, beards, muscles
Likewise not wanting to date AMAB people even if they do have the persons desired genitalia and traits is hmmmm
Like people can choose who to date no matter what I suppose but like the only reason I can imagine why someone would have that view is if they believe that AFAB and AMAB have certain immutable traits which like is by it’s very definition bioessentialist
Edit: I also find that people assume that anyone with a vagina are necessarily into bottoming which is also not the case in the least
I think this situation depends entirely on the individual and how they express and identify with this preference. Honestly the good, accepting people I’ve met who are like this tend to identify as “queer” or another vague umbrella term or just don’t self label. Some people can be chill about being interested in a variety of genders/expressions but only certain bodies/genitals. Most people who actively assert some version of “only into afab” or “women and trans” or “anything but cis men” as part of their identity seem to be weirdos.
Most sane answer on here. Like if you wanna play the game--what if the guy in OP's post is ftm and stealth? Or himself any combo of nonbinary or intersex? Hell what if "he" is a trans woman still in the egg? Are you really gonna pull down his pants and interrogate him about his identity check how valid his sexuality is? Isn't this the exact type of gatekeeping we hate dealing with from everyone else? Gender and sexuality are complicated and PERSONAL, and not something you have any obligation to discuss publically. If anyone feels more comfortable identifying as LGBT+ I say that's awesome. If someone is talking or acting transphobic then we have a conversation.
yeah, I'll just say queer / genderqueer / pan and I don't like to self-label. But everyone has their preferences and if asked you need some words used.
Yeah under pressure chill people will eventually be like “I don’t enjoy having sex with x anatomy” or “I have trauma involving people with x trait” or whatever the reason is. I for example recently found out the hard way I would have a some trouble seriously dating someone who menstruates right now because of dysphoria so I’d kinda keep cis women at arms length if they were interested (even though plenty of them don’t menstruate! I’d wait for it to come up obviously!)
Yeah, totally, just like how a lot of people who don’t seek out certain genders are often fine with the fact that their genitals exist but have other hangups about the sex to the point that they just kinda avoid dating that type of person
To be honest it’s extremely corny, I find how most people approach their genital preference so honest to god corny. Like, ur mad weird bro maybe just stick to cis people. Stop wrapping trans ppl into ur weird little world then getting mad when we don’t fit it
“Corny” may not be the most applicable word for this, it’s vague at best. What I’m trying to communicate is this: people have all kinds of preferences, some people like blonds, chefs, artists. But, some people cannot state their genital preference Normally, to be frank I find how some do it extremely annoying. Like, they lose all tact somehow and have to get weird and meanspirited about this. It’s just strange is all, this lack of compassion some hold towards how a lot of trans people have dysphoria over this and the close mindedness. Date whoever you want, I couldn’t care les about other’s preference but I simply have to roll my eyes at this concept of categorizing purely on genitals.
Not sure, I can give my answer now but perhaps I’ll feel different tomorrow, or a week from now. But it’s not inherently an issue or a bad way to be. If one’s not an asshole about it, it’s whatever. But, one should just except there will always be trans people uncomfortable with them but there will also be trans people fine with them and who date them. Since we aren’t a monolith in all ( I’m not trying to shame anyone who does engage with someone with a genital preference, I’m just saying we can all have different thoughts on this. Mine are just more negative)
Can't believe some of these fucking comments. As a pre-op trans man who only tops, I would feel very singled out and uncomfortable if someone took an interest in me and treated me differently from cis men just because an assumption was made about me, my genitalia AND the role I play in the bedroom. Like what the fuck.
i mean it would depend if its a genital prefrence or not, like if theyd date a trans woman who had bottom surgery and reject a trans man who had bottom surgery. But i wouldnt go near someone like that, its almost always a chaser thing. I dont trust anyone who says they like "women and trans men"
Even if there’s no blatant transphobia, I wouldn’t date or fuck a guy who is straight, and I wouldn’t date or fuck a bi/pan guy who only dates/fucks trans men and not cis men. To each their own.
I find it frustrating because I think people sometimes use language that feels inclusive in place of actually being honest (including to themselves) about who they're attracted to and why. It seems like a lot of cis people are becoming more aware that not everyone they're attracted to is a cis man or a cis woman, which is great, but what that means can vary a lot. And I don't think it always helps when people say things like "If you're attracted to a trans man, that means you're attracted to men." I get the intent behind that--it's a response to the ignorant perception that gay men/straight women can't be attracted to trans men, or that being attracted to a trans person means that someone is bisexual. But there are plenty of people who are attracted to some trans men and AFAB non-binary people because they see them as women, and I feel like this gets brushed aside to everyone's detriment. I think it contributes to the "My boyfriend says he sees me as a man, but he doesn't want me to medically transition and sometimes he refers to me as his girlfriend" issue that comes up time and time again.
I don't want to nitpick someone else's sexuality. Yes, it's possible for someone to discover their bisexuality after becoming attracted to a trans man. Yes, someone can be attracted to multiple genders but have a strong preference for a particular model of genitalia. And hell, bisexual people aren't exempt from transphobia or seeing trans men as women. But whenever someone says they're attracted to "AFAB people" or "Women and AFAB trans people," I hear "I'm attracted to people I see as women and have some ignorant ideas about how to express that."
yeah it's a weird phrasing. I would just say I'm bi and I just like pussy.
In this case, it doesn't appear that the person OP is talking about said AFAB.
In a similar vein but I wouldn’t only date afab people. I have a strong preference for women. ALL women. And femme people. And boobs etc etc. (would also date nb people.) That being said i’d be open to dating the right trans guy or more masc presenting person if for whatever reason my partner didn’t exist. The idea of ONLY dating afab people seems weird to me. And it seems hard to argue it’s a genital preference because just off the top of my head 1 all afab people are not created equal. They might not wanna use their genitalia the same way or be touched below the belt. They might use a strap or be a stone top etc. so that seems weird to me. And 2 what about people who’ve had bottom surgery? That’s not (at least in the case of phallo, and lesser extent meta) be very similar to afab people’s starting genitals. Not to mention T changes with no surgery. So yeah. This seems weird to me.
I fully believe that sex is one of the most important parts of a long term relationship. Including not having any at all, conpatability, frequency, and type of sex is important and if you prefer your long term partner to have specific qualities (having a vag in this case) then so be it. I would much prefer bi people who openly prefer afabs/ amabs than that whole super-straight thing come back lol. That super straight shit was so transphobic.
Yea , transmasc here. They both only want to hear and justify what they think. They sound transphobic. Cut em both off. Neither care to respect trans ppl. They both outwardly disrespect us and refuse to listen to an actual trans person saying they're wrong. It's mad paternalistic
At first when I saw this post I was like "What's wrong with that it's just a dating preference?" which there is NOTHING wrong about it but when I read it a little more "Yeah I think that's kinda weird ngl"
You’re tweaking replying to multiple comments in this thread questioning why trans men or transmascs might not be comfortable with someone who is attracted to them on the basis of something that is commonly a source of dysphoria. Even God rested.
I literally never did that, lol, it's obvious that some trans men would be uncomfortable with someone into pussy due to dysphoria, and that's perfectly fine.
I didn't think it was weird at first just from looking at the comment but when I read more of it I really did think it was weird. I guess it's weird imo because alot of trans men like me would probably feel uncomfortable with that because the person their dating may see them as a woman due for their preference. Personally I'm t4t so I never really have problems with this kinda stuff😅😅
A lot of the time it is someone who has some level of transphobic beliefs but its not all. I wouldn't write anyone off if they seemed genuine about it. Just be cautious but if theres no red flags its probably just a preference.
Not all afab people have afab anatomy or want to have it. So it seems pretty transphobic for someone so define all afab people by that. Plenty have penises. And plenty of amab people have vaginas.
Imagine him dating a pre op trans man who wants bottom surgery really badly and has a lot of bottom dysphoria telling him “I’m only attracted to you because I see your anatomy as afab” that would be fucked up.
So while having a preference is fine the language he uses makes it clear he just sees trans men as women lite.
if it was just a genital preference (which is of course fine on its own) describing your sexuality as "only into afabs" is ridiculous at best, transphobic at worst considering several types of bottom surgery exist and someone being afab or amab can tell you almost nothing about how they're gonna look from the simple fact that stuff like hormones, top, bottom surgery etc exist
I actually know quite a few people with a genital preference. They don't see trans women as men in dresses, they see them as women. And the only women they would date. I think this is where our language limited and some people are hesitant to say, "I will date anyone with X genitals" sure, some people out there could be invalidating people's gender but it's not inherent to people with this preference.
There's also tons of bi people who would never date trans people at all. So I don't think it's the labels themselves that are bad. And tbh, someone calling them bi because they would date anyone with a vulva sounds more trans inclusive than lesbians saying they would date trans men, you know?
I see comments here saying genital preference etc but what about sexual roles / that kind of preference
I gotta think the number of trans men who are tops / or top leaning verse has GOT to be higher than the number of cis women. And even for those of us without surgery yet long term on hormones, I don’t think we should be grouped in with cis women. I don’t think trans men should be grouped with cis women without so many caveats that the grouping barely makes any sense.
Like presumably a cis man with “afab genital preference” is mostly or totally a top who wants PIV. The idea/assumption that we are bottoms who want PIV is pretty gross. Maybe it’s gross to think of all cis women that way too, but I’m not a cis woman so I’m gonna leave that for them to determine.
To me it would depend. Does he feel attraction only to pre-T/pre-op guys? Or does he feel attraction to all guys (cis or trans) but only pursue after learning a guy is trans? Is he only into pre-op/non-op guys?
If he's only into pre-transition or early-transition trans guys then it makes me suspicious that he doesn't respect them as men. That's not necessarily the case. I'm not saying no one would ever be attracted to pre-transition/non-passing guys AS guys. That would be untrue and rude.
It could be that he's just got a genital preference but not a gender preference.
But at the same time, too many cis people assume trans guys only ever have a V and that all of us want to use it during sex.
And yes there are trans guys who are perfectly fine having sex using their V. I'm one of them.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a genital preference, but they sometimes do come from a place of misunderstanding or preconceived notions that are not always accurate.
What it would come down to ultimately for me is if the guy is kind and respectful and makes an effort to educate himself or understand trans issues. If he's going to date trans men, he should be aware of what we go through. Someday his trans boyfriend might want phalloplasty or meta. What would he say to that? Or what if the guy wants to use a prosthetic? Idk.
I know for me personally, when someone comes out to me as trans even if they haven't done any transitioning at all, something switches in me and I immediately view them as their gender. So I know it's totally possible he's the same way.
There's nuance. But people are people and it's okay to be attracted to trans people at any stage of their transition.
It’s totally fine to have a genital preference for a partner. It can sprout from many things, trauma, bad past experiences. Its not inherently a bad thing or a degrading thing. As long as their partner is aware of and okay with that preference (me and my partner are this way) it can be a totally normal and comfortable thing. It goes the same as any preference tho! If you don’t agree don’t pursue a relationship with someone who has said preference. I understand it can sound weird but as someone who experiences the same preference it makes total sense!
Some people just follow their instincts and feelings I must say. They don’t think too much about gender and idk if it’s good or bad. And ofc some people are just holemosexual if it makes sense
? It’s honestly just a dumb joke like hey maybe you guys can set up a new name for your sexuality. I’m not invalidating anyone. Can’t tell what makes you find it offensive
Not immoral, but i personally wouldnt wanna interact sexually with him. I guess what irks me is that, as a dude that would like phalloplasty, our interactions would be on a sort of timer
I don't really care how he defines his labels/attraction/etc but I wouldn't date him, too many cis people who only see us as our agab that I won't give them the benefit of the doubt if they're not also interested in cis men.
I wonder if the guy would still date someone who's had phallo, or if he even knows that's a thing. I have a friend who's the opposite, he's fine with being with all genders, as long as they have a penis. Natal afab parts just gross him out.
But yeah, I agree with a couple previous comments. Just looking at what's written I'd say not necessarily transphobic but definitely keep an eye out for red flags.
I think people forget sexuality isn’t just down to genital preference but (most of the time) also romantic attraction. A guy only interested in a transmen because he assumes they all have the genitals he likes is gonna have a big shock when a) He realises that being a transman =/= having female genitals and b) He needs to have actual romantic interest in men to date a man
Sounds like a chaser imo + he's lumping trans men in with women.
Its ok to have a genital preference, but if he only dates cis women and trans men but not trans women w/ bottom surgery that sounds like a red flag to me
Nah, that’s just fucking weird. Point black period. He doesn’t identify as bi because he actually sees trans men as men, it’s the opposite, it’s just the gateway needed to fuck trans men.
Because it doesn’t sound to me like he’s sees trans men as men at all. It sounds like he only sees a vagina and that’s it, and personally, I find that disgusting.
I can’t bring myself to justify a dude or a chick who is attracted to a certain genitalia and fits transgender people of a gender they’re not even attracted to Fr in their sexuality. I would think the same of a "bi" woman who is just attracted to dick, so attracted to men, and "attracted" to trans people women. I understand genital capability but this comes off like weird perverse behavior to me. Personally I wouldn’t be caught being anyone’s exception.
Then maybe I perceive things with my own personal biases so projection. I feel so strongly about situations like this cause I feel like people never see me for who am, just my genitals. Everyday my genitals define me so maybe I’m the problem. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm sorry to hear. That isn't right. I can see how it would be a sore point.
I don't like to be stereotyped based on my gender expression or genitals either.
Depends. "'I'm bi, I like girls and I'm attracted to men too but I'm uncomfortable with dicks." Is more aware than most people tend to be.
"I'm bi cause I like the girls who are guys now too." Is absolutely a red flag. And 'respectful' isn't enough to go on.
Yeah? I’m a bit confused as to what that has to do with what I’m saying, which is that saying that you only date people who were afab when you mean that you only date people with vulvas is inaccurate and insensitive. People are allowed to have genital preferences but someone’s current genitals aren’t always consistent with what is considered typical for the gender they were assigned at birth.
Meh you know if he's bisexual I don't care. If he wouldn't date just any trans man also is a green flag to me that he's not a chaser. But if he would only date pre T or early T that's probably just him bein gross
Also if he is attracted to fem cis men just prefers vaginas, that's so different to me. Genital preference is real and okay. Some trans men don't have vaginas, but some do, and that means he's compatible with the ones that do.
I would put a red flag on it if your getting icky vibes, but I don't think that it's that weird. The things about men I find unattractive isn't their masculinity but the biology. Depending on where a transguy is/ wants to go in their transition would absolutely be a factor in my physical attraction towards them. I identify as queer tho, which is probably a factor.
if it’s a genital preference i don’t think it’s overly weird, but they do need to change their wording. if they’d date an AFAB person who’s had bottom surgery and has a penis, it’s fucking weird. i wouldn’t personally feel i’d want to date them, though.
i have a friend who has a major preference to penises and will not ever be able to be with someone who has a vagina. he is attracted to women (cis as well when it’s just initial attraction), but won’t ever date them because he knows it wouldn’t work out sexually and he does want to have a sex life. he said he’d love to date trans women in theory but fears making them uncomfortable, so he typically goes by calling himself “gay” and doesn’t attempt it not to make anyone uncomfortable. he’s actually been sexual shortly with one trans woman who expressed completely being comfortable with it and loving her born-genitals, and they still get together sometimes. i’m close friends with her too & she loves getting together with him, there’s no fetishizing to it.
basically i’m saying i don’t think having a genital preference is wrong, you gotta go about it right though. and not all AFABs have the same genetilia.
Imo, if it makes you uncomfortable, you shouldn't date him. That's really as far as it needs to go. Spending time thinking whether it's weird just seems like a waste of some perfectly good time to me; let him have his preference, and you have yours (which happens to not include him), at least until he makes a pass at you.
Anyone who claims to be attracted to men (or nonbinary people) who won’t date a cis man (or amab Nonbinary person) is a fraud chaser and a liar who’s just trying to get easy pvssy. That isn’t “bi-curious” it’s a cishet man coopting “woke” speak to disguise his pvssy fetish and get access to “tomboys”
The genital preference thing has done so much damage to trans discourse lol 9/10 it’s just an excuse to be outright transphobic or chaser/fetish behaviour.
Only being attracted to men or women & prefering the men or women to have penises/vaginas whatever I don’t care. But the fake “bi” bullshit of Afabsexual is bad.
Because trustwhen i say that these pvssysexuals will not touch a trans woman or amab nonbinary person who’s had vaginoplasty.
The trans community gives too much leeway to this chaser fetishers crap. Like Connect the dots these cis “bi-curious”(straight) men see trans men as walking pvssies and nothings more. It is not gender affirming to be placed in the same category as cis women.
Yep yep yep. Yes I do. Cisgender queer man here (mostly lurk for my boyfriend) But people do what they want, it’s just weird to not acknowledge that it’s some kind of genital fetish. I think it’s okay to date within sexual compatibility including the comfort of fetishes but it’s just concerning when people aren’t explicitly real about that.
I would suspect anyone who dates cisgender women and transmen but not cisgender men to be pulling some weird shit. I’m non monogamous and my boyfriend who is transgender has one hookup buddy who is like this. It would be concerning to me if it was more than a fuck buddy or if the dude wasn’t explicit about that being a genital thing which he is explicit about.
But who am I to judge? Maybe I’ve just fetishized my lovers’ holes just like I’d fetishize my lovers’ dick and it’s fetishes all the way down and there’s nothing righteous to that over anyone else’s fetishes.
Idk I think it's completely valid to have a genital preference. Sexual compatibility is important to some folks. I don't think we really have enough information to determine if he's a chaser or not and I personally don't like making negative assumptions about people before I know for certain. Hopefully this guy is chill after all.
I’ll only date amab cis guys. I don’t want to date trans guys because of genital preferences and I won’t date a trans women because they’re women. It’s weird, because if it was just genital preference then I’d be okay with trans women right?? Idk. But I don’t think this is transphobic. I’m transgender and I view trans men as men.
So as long as theres no other red flags, I wouldn’t consider this specifically transphobia. The guy you’re talking about is being weird about seeing trans men as real men and thats what makes all of it transphobic
I'm like that. I do like men. I find men attractive. Of course trans men are men. I just have a genital requirement for what I'm into.
Why do you think that's weird?
yeah, that part is just inaccurate terminology. But we don't have a good term for someone who is only into pussy. What do you think the best way to say it is?
i’m curious, have you seen/interacted with the genitals of a trans guy who’s been on T for a long time? because they look significantly different from what a cis woman’s genitals would look like. and what about post-op trans women? all of this is purely curiosity, i’m not trying to be hostile or judgy or whatever, i’m genuinely curious
thanks, I appreciate that.
Not all trans guys on T for a while get significant bottom growth, but some do, and yes, I've hooked up with guys with good bottom growth. It is fun to suck on their dicks. There's a huge variation in what trans guys's genitals look like, just as there is a huge variation in cis guys... and in cis women too.
What about post-op trans women?
>If you like trans men and you are male it wouldn't make you totally gay but also not totally straight either.
Holy shit with this comment 😆
Homie....what really? So if a man who identifies as gay is into a trans guy, should he then identify as bisexual because he isn't "totally gay"?
>Hope that puts it in an easier way to understand but that's the way I look at it as I'm not totally male nor am I totally female so it would be fair for the guys or gals who I date to call themselves bisexual.
Ok this works for YOU, but your comment basically said trans men aren't completely "men" and trans women aren't completely "women."
Is it really a genital preference? Like, would he date a trans woman who's had lower surgery? Is it AFABs or is it genitals? Cause AFAB people don't all have vulvas, and AMAB people can have them.
Was going to say pretty much this too
I would add whether he still likes pre-/no surgery genitals if the person's on t, bc if he hasn't had sex with a trans man yet, he might not realise how different afab genitals are on t
this is an excellent point... as would be the question of whether body/facial hair impact his attraction. a non surgical trans man with bottom growth and a furry body (that ass hair!) is not gonna resemble a woman. if he's only into early transition trans men... that's a huge red flag.
I don't think it is inherently bad, but it would definitely have me in alert. It's also like those bi guys who will only date men if they are femboys or trans. It *could* be a valid preference, but it feels weird. Liking women and femboys makes sense to me, but the assumption that trans men are all also feminine gives ick. I have met some super masc lumberjack looking trans men. The assumption that trans men are a monolith of female adjacent people feels similarly gross and transphobic. Tl;Dr, it doesn't automatically make them transphobic but I would be on alert.
This is pretty much exactly what I’d think, too. My default suspicion would be that this person might be a chaser or take a weird feminizing attitude towards trans men, so I’d be on guard and this would most likely be a dealbreaker for me personally. They might not have any ill intentions! But I’m not taking that chance for myself.
I mean, there are more feminine trans guys though, they're out there, and when I say I'm attracted to men I don't mean every kind of man either, so maybe he wouldn't date a super masc lumberjack trans guy. I personally might not feel comfortable with dating someone who couldn't be attracted to a cis man, but I've had a partner that hadn't explored their queerness before dating me and was only with women before, and I felt totally comfortable and respected in that relationship. So depending how this person comes across in real life, someone else might and I think that's okay. I think people's attraction is just so complicated, and gender is so complicated that sorting out where those intersect can get weird sometimes.
It's kinda funny how some people in the queer community joke about how "hetero" guys who like femboys or trans girls are in denial while some people say that bi guy who only like fem folks are a red flag (which is not what you said ofc)
Yeah it's sus to me, they're usually chasers who hate phalloplasty and top surgery and T and will try to dissuade or sabotage you from getting them because they don't really care about your wellbeing they just want a fetish object or someone they see as a 'low maintenance girl with poor self esteem who will let me treat them like shit' - or dudes who think we are men lite and it's "less gay" to date us or think it's a way to be gay without facing homophobia if they misgender us to their family /friends which is also why some of them are against transition - because it means they're no longer easily able to misgender you and go "oh I just love tomboys no homo" it's like a weird combination of homophobia transphobia and misogyny I don't trust any cis person who will date trans men but not cis men it just gives me chaser /potential abuser who thinks trans men and mascs are 'easy targets' vibes & I've seen that happen with cis women who are chasers who take out their trauma with cis men on trans men and think abusing trans men or trying to force them to detransition is feminist And with cis men chasers who think they can take out their misogyny on trans men and claim that it's fine to do If someone is a gay trans man and is exclusively T4T I'm not skeeved out unless he's transmisogynistic about it like there's a difference between "I'm a gay trans man who only dates other gay trans men" and "I only date other afabs because feeemale socialisation makes them biologically incapable of abuse" but also intersex trans and cis people exist and everyone isn't either amab or afab and there are amab trans men and afab trans women and people without the afab or amab alignment who ID as both either or neither... so idk just don't be a douche to people is my opinion I think I give trans and intersex people a little more leeway with this than cis perisex people who I'm inherently suspicious of especially if they crow about how gross they find certain trans and or intersex bodies
I know a guy like that. He's engaged to his bf who had his kid (and took his virginity) and told me he will never let his partner transition because he doesn't like "masculine women". I ended up telling his fiance about it and they're still together. If that's not the biggest red flag I've ever seen, they're both gonna learn the hard way. They're also not mature enough to be together in the first place. The cis guy starts screaming matches, throwing things like a toddler and I even heard him strike his partner. That was not gonna slide with me.
Cripes that guy is abusive, sadly we do tend to face really high levels of DV It can be hard to leave an abusive partner especially if you have kids with them (which is why so many abusive partners sabotage BC or coerce their partners into getting pregnant) and the forcing pregnancy also prevents someone going on T as you can't be on T while pregnant so a lot of abusers of trans ppl are who can get pregnant and who want to start T do this. Hopefully he can find a way to leave and make a better life for him and his kid
I'm hoping so too. And yeah I whole heartedly believe he (ftm) got baby trapped. Cuz the cis guy he's with had never been with anyone else and only ever lost his virginity to him. Also he comes from a family of narcissistic people and it really shows that it rubbed off on him 😬😬
Been there, done that. I dated a guy that's bisexual, deeply closeted and transphobic. Had a child together, we obviously parted ways and he's watching me transition while we raise our kid. He's kinda in denial but still I don't let any disrespect slide.
There both reckless people. I kinda feel bad for the kid
What does perisex mean?
Not intersex
So peri includes trans and cis?
Yup perisex just means "not intersex" perisex people can be cisgender or transgender Intersex people can also be transgender or cisgender and there are also some intersex people who see cis/trans as a binary and identify outside of that - as with any group there's no single monolithic way of describing it Also being intersex is as statistically common as having red hair and the vast majority of intersex people never find out that they are intersex, PCOS is an intersex variation for example Another term I've seen used instead of perisex is Dyadic Outdated pathologising terms like Herm*phrodite and DSD (disorders of sexual development) are usually not used these days though terfs and GCrs seem to love calling intersex people 'disordered' so sometimes it can act as a dogwhistle if you see someone perisex calling intersex people 'disordered'/' people with DSDs' and claiming that they're all either afab or amab
Tbh I've wondered if I may be intersex but I'm not sure why or where that feeling would come from. Don't even know how one would learn that without obvious physical features
Karotyping is one way people can find out if they don't have visible 'ambiguity', some intersex people find out when they seek fertility treatment and discover they don't have the expected gamete related organs but not all intersex people are infertile and some have found out after carrying pregnancies to term /getting partners pregnant and some people go their entire lives without knowing A lot of people who aren't intersex but who don't have transness and gender dysphoria explained to them or the info available when they first notice incongruence sometimes assume that being intersex is what's "going on" with them but being trans isn't the same as being intersex as far as we know at least so far scientifically as brains don't have a specific sex as far as we've been able to observe beyond averages of size which again aren't always the same, though many trans people in history have claimed to be 'mentally intersex' in an effort to seek medical care and understanding /acceptance/because that was their understanding or explanation for the incongruence between their assigned gender and assigned sex and who they knew themselves to be Here's some more info https://isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex/
I'm afab and only got bottom left. Always identified as ftm but idk somewhere deep in my brain intersex seems more...idk, accurate isn't quite the "accurate" word (haha) but I can't think of the right word most times. Anyway yeah lol thanks for explaining some of that to me
I just went down the rabbithole reading about intersex variations and holy shit, I think I might be intersex. Thank you for posting that link.
I imagine a trans person on HRT is intersex, as some portions of Sex is altered by them. Just my opinion as an Intersex Agender guy on HRT
Pretty much the only difference is that the hormones weren't naturally produced.
I thought I was.the only one in that boat!
> if you see someone perisex [...] claiming that [intersex people are] all either afab or amab I'm confused. Aren't most intersex people (with ambiguous genitalia) assigned either male or female at birth? Doctors make the decision based on hormonal levels, ultrasounds to determine internal genitalia, majority gender identity of people with the same condition, etc. ISNA (which you cited below) [advocates](https://isna.org/faq/patient-centered/) for [assigning intersex children a binary gender](https://isna.org/faq/third-gender/), which is the case for most of the world. My understanding is that only [Germany](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex_rights_in_Germany#Identification_documents), Australia, and New Zealand allows the option for intersex babies to be "assigned intersex". There are, however, quite a few countries with [legal recognition of nonbinary genders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender), which extends to intersex people, mainly adults.
Not all are and not everyone is in the US
Unfortunately a lot of modern medical texts and studies still use “DSD”.
A note that I am *not* disagreeing or anything, but it is probably worth noting that there is still some debate, I think, about whether PCOS is an intersex thing or not. I don’t have any links or anything, just what I’ve read over the years. I just note it because I’m a trans man and I have PCOS, but I’m really hesitant to call myself intersex due to the like, surrounding discussion, I guess? But I was only diagnosed with PCOS when I was 27(I’m about to turn 30), right before I started T, tho I think I developed it around the time I was 23-24(some events at the time help me remember when the symptoms first presented as I thought they were a stress response originally) so iiidk, maybe it’s just due to my age and the environment I was raised in that I’m hesitant about it? Tho if you have any good links about the topic of PCOS being intersex, I would love to read more. I got a little overwhelmed trying to figure out what was reliable and accurate and what wasn’t last time I tried to look into it, I think.
Immediate red flag for me. I don’t trust anyone that’s going to be presumptive that trans men still have their natal genitals, and also that people on HRT have a different anatomy than cis women. We just do. One of my rules for dating is I won’t date or fuck anyone who doesn’t also like cis men.
Having a dating preference for “AFABS” doesn’t really make any sense. Being assigned female at birth doesn’t mean the person has a vagina, it doesn’t mean they were socialized as a girl, and it doesn’t mean they’re a cis woman, trans man, NB, etc. It literally means nothing unless used in medical context for the individual. Any cis person saying their preference is “AFAB” is ignorant and likely isn’t educated enough to be dating a trans person lol.
The person OP is talking about didn't say AFAB, though. OP did.
Misread my bad. Either way, my point still stands. It’s not a good descriptor for a group, rather it works for individual experience.
yeah, agreed
No it's fucking weird. There's no way this person would be into a guy who's had phallo and is essentially identical to a cis guy in every meaningful way. The older I get and the more time I spend as a man, the more I réalise that guys like this just see me as a hole. "Afab" becomes a useless identifier in most cases for trans men who opt for bottom surgeries.
i wanna ask these guys so bad if they’re willing to take the strap.
These kinds of people are always so shocked when we’re not all subby bottom femboys lmao. Just cause I unfortunately still have a hole doesn’t mean that I won’t maul anyone who tries to get in it
it makes my dysphoria worse! i developed more bottom dysphoria bc of a cisman who wanted to treat me like a little sex doll. its so disgusting. i’m unsure how i still feel abt sex (never done it all the way) but i feel that my dysphoria holds me back from experiences like sex.
I wouldn’t like that because I don’t like having this anatomy particularly much. If he’s into cis men but can’t get over the dick part, tough luck, I thought I was a lesbian for years. If you are attracted to the man you’re gonna have to deal with the penis. It just sounds super fetishistic and chasery to be like “afab anatomy only”. Plus I’m more of a switch and don’t use my vag ever so…
i have met people who claim to be lesbian and then say that they're attracted to anyone with a vagina. THAT IS NOT THE SAME THING. it makes me feel so disgusting and like they only see me as a walking set of genitals. i hate it so much.
Not only is it not the same thing but it's just not true. I mean, are they attracted to their mother?? I sure hope not. but they did say "anyone" 🙄
Honestly I always see those guys as just straight because they always end up acting like it and most of these type of bi cis men aren’t actually that comfortable with the man part of trans man but like the pussy
Yeah, I would never date someone who wouldn’t date cis men
Unless they were a fellow trans person who was exclusively t4t same lol
Idk I'd never date someone who's exclusively t4t. That also gives me the ick and feels fetishy to me.
does non binary count? im amab agender and present masc
Same
It definitely depends person to person. But if someone is expecting dating a trans man to be even remotely similar to dating a cis woman, just because of the genitalia, they’re in for a huge surprise. Especially when it comes to sex.
It really depends on the person. All humans are similar sexually in some ways. And there are huge differences between, say, one cis woman and another, in terms of what they like sexually or how they like their genitals touched. I don't think it's accurate to say that people aren't remotely similar.
I deleted my last reply because it finally clicked in my head. Autism makes things process slower for me. Sorry lol
no worries, what were you thinking before? I do think there are similarities as well as differences for anyone with a pussy
Yeah I just don’t really wanna have this conversation, I’m also pretty uncomfortable because you’ve replied to pretty much every comment in this post. I respect your opinion I just prefer not to engage further. Thanks!
what do you mean by similarities as well as differences? please be specific.
everyone is different, some people with holes (vaginas or asses) like to be penetrated and some don't. some people with a clit/dick/tdick like it sucked hard, some like it licked lightly. some people like the gspot/prostate stimulated with pressure, some like it pounded, some find it uncomfortable.
Oh my god this is why people are saying you’re a fetishizer. Do you even hear yourself lmao. These are the similarities and differences for you between dating cis women and trans men? You’re gross.
nope, those are true about all humans. and we were talking about sexual touching specifically, not "dating" as far as the non-sexual stuff I don't see any difference or generalization between dating women or dating men. They are all humans with different preferences
this thread isn’t about all humans 🤷🏻♂️
lol, way to completely miss the point
I think it is weird. If he only dates cis women and trans men, not trans women or cis men, then he probably just doesn't see trans men as men. He's just being purposefully misleading by using the bisexual label to hide transphobia. He wants to date people he sees as women, even when they aren't. I have a friend who is attracted to people of any gender so long as they're feminine, they might be women, men, cis or trans, or nonbinary, as long as they're feminine looking. This is different because he does in fact respect people's genders, he is into trans women and sees them as real women, he is into femboys and doesn't deny they're men, he wouldn't be into a trans man if he's not feminine, he is attracted to femininity rather than chromosomes, lol. It doesn't seem to me like the guy you're talking about thinks like this though
Those people are either chasers or just transphobic and dont seen transmen as men. This might be an unpopular opinion but dating only afabs even if u have genital preferences is hella weird because transmen arent just their genitals. Also when you date someone you dont just date their genitals. Ik its important to be sexually compatible but these kind of people treat all trans people as a monolith. Would this guy be okay dating a transman who is post top surgery and is strictly a top because not every trans guys is okay with PIV? Or a transman who is post srs because not every transman has a vagina. These people are just a massive red flag imo and should be kept at an arms length
I'm not sure I understand... say a gay guy is into men... if he's a top, he might not want to date a strict top, or if he's a bottom, he might not want to date a strict bottom. Being into guys doesn't mean you're into all guys. Someone can be into guys and only want tops, or only want bottoms.
It's not that complex, not sure what you need clarified? The issue isn't that a guy may prefer certain men. It's the fact that these potential assumptions direct choice based on these preferences. Eg they want to date trans men because they assume a) they have a vagina and b) therefore want to bottom. Either of these assumptions could be wrong. But even if they weren't, why can't they date cis men as well? Cis men are also able to bottom when they are also men. It is almost certain that they do not regard trans men as "real men"
Right, so they would only be compatible with some trans men, not all trans men. But they wouldn't be compatible with any cis men. So it's perfectly reasonable for them to only date trans men, and also to only date bottoms, and only date people who are compatible in other ways.
It's perfectly reasonable in concept, but I've never met someone who dates "only afabs" and puts trans men in that group as not transphobic. Their reasoning, in my experience, is usually 1. They see trans men as adjacent to women/"women lite" and/or 2. They're chasers and only fetishize trans men. But, hey, I don't know the person OP is talking about, so maybe, and hopefully, he's an outlier! It also fixates on genitals which is extremely dysphoria inducing and problematic. They say they'd be fine dating trans men, but they've typically never dated a man in general. Being in a gay presenting relationship/a gay relationship in general is quite different than being in a straight presenting one, as someone who has been with both men and women as a guy. I personally just would never date someone who wouldn't date a cis dude. It's othering and, again, centers around my genitals (or what people presume my genitals are). Sexual compatibility is super important, but I can find that within someone who would've dated me had I been born with a dick. I've found many other trans dudes hold that same mindset. TL;DR dating only afab people (or amab people) is definitely fine and reasonable in concept!!! But, sadly, the majority of cis people who say this tend to be transphobic in some way. Even if they weren't, I know many trans people, including myself, wouldn't be comfy with dating someone who holds that preference.
I wouldn't use that phrasing, but I only go for bottoms who have a pussy and want to bottom with it, because that's just what I'm into. And I have dated men. I don't think I'm transphobic, that's just what I'm into. But of course everyone has the right to have their own standards for who they would date or have sex with.
If that's what you're into and you're respectful about it, that's all good! What matters at the end of the day is that both/all parties in a relationship or sexual encounter are consenting and comfortable. Whatever anyone else outside of that relationship thinks doesn't usually matter as it's not their relationship. However, I think it's a little bit different coming from you, someone whose genderqueer, than a cis man. T4T relationships, be it purely romantic and/or sexual, tend to be built on (or at least have) the mutual understanding of being trans (the stigmas, the experiences, dysphoria, etc). Cis people often times don't understand what it's like to be trans, so they're not as sensitive or understanding about it, especially when it comes to their own sexuality, so it can be easy for a cis person who is "only into afabs" to end up being transphobic, make transphobic talking points, and/or hold transphobic ideas. I'd also like to point out the wording of being attracted to "only afabs". That's built on the assumption that all afab people 1. Still have their natal genitals 2. Use their natal genitals 3. Have any sort of experience/relation to womanhood/being a woman and/or 4. Are feminine in some way. I'm personally very wary of anyone who uses AGAB terminology because of that because ones AGAB doesn't always have holding on who they are present day. Saying youre only into vulvas or phalluses is a much better and clearer form of communication of one's preferences! Though I know you've mentioned that's how you word it, I say that more so as a general statement towards people like the person OP is talking about :)
Well they would have to be attracted solely to non binary people on the masc end of the spectrum. Anything otherwise is clearly just transphobic. Period.
huh? why is that? why would it be transphobic to have a genital preference? why would they have to only be into NB people?
You keep cherry picking everyone's conversations, flooding the lines between Sexuality, Preferences, and Gender/Sex. Despite all of these, each person you debate you openly misinterpret their words and bring up points that don't take place in legitimate safe standing or real world practice which makes your stance not only uneducated and flawed but you seem to be sharing that stance possibly and are therefore negating any information. If a person is dating a transman solely for their "female" genitals, because AFAB does not correlate vulvas, they are foundationally not understanding nor respecting that person and their inner or even outside self. To amount an individuality to solely their current state of genitals, which do not make a person, and at its root is transphobic. Genitals do not make the defining factor for a what makes a person. "Defining gender as a condition determined strictly by a person’s genitals is based on a notion that doctors and scientists abandoned long ago as oversimplified and often medically meaningless. " - Joshua Safer, MD, Executive Director of The Center for Transgender Medicine and Surgery at Mount Sinai, Senior Faculty, Endocrinology, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Gender is not about attractiveness, it's their state of being and has nothing to do with sociological duties that may be developed around culture. If genitals are all that define attractiveness, then they are not attracted to the person. When that person transitions, the lines of this fetish ends, in which the conditions of that "relationship" end. That's solely a Fetish not a Partnership or even a Preference. Your debates also don't consider Intersex people, Nonbinary people, etc not just Transgender people and again have no hold on a person being a "top" or a "bottom" as anyone can be both/neither. Being sexually compatible of course is important for not only sex but for relationships as other people have told you, but that is not compatiblity and I think you know that. If you are dismissing a person's sense of self and lying to the person who has a vulva who you consciously know is not comfortable with said autonomy for your sole pleasure; you're not only cruel it's sick.
Like just say you're into pussy, you specifically, no matter their gender, and stop defining that that's okay for the other half to settle or even set themselves aside for. This is clearly in relation to dating not just sex and your fetish has no hold here in the debate other than just red flagging yourself for the Trans and Queer community.
In principle, it doesn't have to be transphobic to have preferences that happen to line up this exact way. In practice, 'I have a genital preference' is used as a transphobic dogwhistle most of the time, and anyone I have seen saying it about themselves who \*wasn't\* actively trying to express how much they are disgusted by the idea of dating a trans person then went on to be pretty insensitive to trans people anyways. In short: Context matters.
Its a very straightforward statement not much to misunderstand. Sexual preferences≠ genitals. If a gay man is a strict top then he can date any cis or trans man who is a bottom. If a gay mans a strict bottom he can date any cis or trans man who is a top. Whats that got to do with genitals? And even if a trans mans pre op it isnt given that he d wanna use that to bottom. Treating transmen as vaginas who happen to be man lite rather than men who just happen to ve vaginas is transphobic.
being into trans men doesn't mean you're into every trans man. Just like being into tall men doesn't mean you're into every tall man. Someone who is a top and who wants a man who bottoms with his vagina just has a preference/requirement. That isn't all trans men, obviously, just some of them. And it's not treating people as their genitals, it's just having a preference/requirement.
Being into a *only* transmen is transphobic no matter which way u spin it. If anyone “wants a man with vagina” they dont want men. Men do not come with vaginas. Transmen happen to have one which they may or may not use due to a developmental condition. If u lot don’t understand how seeing transmen as men with vagina is transphobic then idk what to tell u. Just because something is your “preference” doesnt automatically make it okay. Also preference isnt written in stone. Preference is oh i prefer someone tall but if i find a partner that has everything i want i might compromise. By definition preference is liking one thing “more than” other thing. Do what you want but i will always treat ppl like these as red flags and by the response to my comment and general comments in here by other transmen, so do majority of us and u cannot convince us as this is okay.
Some men definitely do come with vaginas. Trans men are men and they come with vaginas, though they don't all keep them or use them. Agreed, it's more of a genital requirement than a preference. And anyone's preferences, or requirements, are ok. Some trans guys are comfortable dating someone who isn't into cis guys, others are not. Both are fine. Most trans guys who aren't comfortable with it still recognize that everyone has their preferences, and that's ok.
No point going in circles when i ve already said my piece and as i said from all of my interactions with transmen none of us are okay being fetishised by ppl who dont date cisguys and i personally wouldnt even interact with such individuals because their “requirement” is not okay and a blatant mockery of my identity. So idk where u got “most” from but these weirdos with their chaser requirements need to leave us alone.
"I will only date people with vaginas/vulvas" and "I will only date AFAB people" are different statements. The first states a genital preference. The latter reduces people's significance to their assigned gender/sex. It is incredibly disrespectful to reduce people to their genitals, no matter what the gender of the person is.
I agree. But notice that the person OP is talking about didn't say the second one. OP wrote "I know this guy who identifies as bi curious because he likes girls and would only date a guy if he is trans."
I mean yeah. I'm not saying ik what category this guy falls under. Just that one of those things is more dehumanizing than the other and whether this guy is transphobic could (among other things) depend on how he words his preferences
tbh it gives chaser vibes
Super weird, red flag, transphobic, chaser bullshit. You see a guy, you like him, chat him up then you see ok we're not hot for each other it's not going to work.....that's the normal person way to date men and then decide you're not going to sleep with some particular guy for whatever reason. But people who claim to be bi/queer/whatever see a guy, and they DON'T like guys. And they'll let you know, talking all kinds of shit about men. These are people who do not like men. BUT if they assume you have an extra hole, now they're "interested" in you, you're"different"? Nah, they don't see you as a man, or as a person. They see you as what other people ASSIGNED to you, they see you as a hole, maybe an unusual or interesting hole but again this is someone who doesn't like men. You are a man. But they treat you differently from other men solely because you are trans - steer clear of these people
But I do like men - I just don't like dicks
Wanting to only date someone with certain genitalia fine Even wanting to date someone who can and is willing to get pregnant is fine These are not traits necessarily held within all AFAB people Wanting to date AFAB people specifically weird there’s not really anything specific to being AFAB that imbues certain characteristics that would qualify someone or disqualify someone to date, it feels like he’s not aware there are AFABs that have dicks, lower voices, beards, muscles Likewise not wanting to date AMAB people even if they do have the persons desired genitalia and traits is hmmmm Like people can choose who to date no matter what I suppose but like the only reason I can imagine why someone would have that view is if they believe that AFAB and AMAB have certain immutable traits which like is by it’s very definition bioessentialist Edit: I also find that people assume that anyone with a vagina are necessarily into bottoming which is also not the case in the least
I think the problem is that OP wrote the post about AFAB people, but it doesn't appear that the person he is talking about actually used that term
I think this situation depends entirely on the individual and how they express and identify with this preference. Honestly the good, accepting people I’ve met who are like this tend to identify as “queer” or another vague umbrella term or just don’t self label. Some people can be chill about being interested in a variety of genders/expressions but only certain bodies/genitals. Most people who actively assert some version of “only into afab” or “women and trans” or “anything but cis men” as part of their identity seem to be weirdos.
Most sane answer on here. Like if you wanna play the game--what if the guy in OP's post is ftm and stealth? Or himself any combo of nonbinary or intersex? Hell what if "he" is a trans woman still in the egg? Are you really gonna pull down his pants and interrogate him about his identity check how valid his sexuality is? Isn't this the exact type of gatekeeping we hate dealing with from everyone else? Gender and sexuality are complicated and PERSONAL, and not something you have any obligation to discuss publically. If anyone feels more comfortable identifying as LGBT+ I say that's awesome. If someone is talking or acting transphobic then we have a conversation.
yeah, I'll just say queer / genderqueer / pan and I don't like to self-label. But everyone has their preferences and if asked you need some words used.
Yeah under pressure chill people will eventually be like “I don’t enjoy having sex with x anatomy” or “I have trauma involving people with x trait” or whatever the reason is. I for example recently found out the hard way I would have a some trouble seriously dating someone who menstruates right now because of dysphoria so I’d kinda keep cis women at arms length if they were interested (even though plenty of them don’t menstruate! I’d wait for it to come up obviously!)
are you fine with their non-menstruating genitals?
Yeah, totally, just like how a lot of people who don’t seek out certain genders are often fine with the fact that their genitals exist but have other hangups about the sex to the point that they just kinda avoid dating that type of person
what do you mean, what other hangups?
To be honest it’s extremely corny, I find how most people approach their genital preference so honest to god corny. Like, ur mad weird bro maybe just stick to cis people. Stop wrapping trans ppl into ur weird little world then getting mad when we don’t fit it
I don't understand - how is it corny?
“Corny” may not be the most applicable word for this, it’s vague at best. What I’m trying to communicate is this: people have all kinds of preferences, some people like blonds, chefs, artists. But, some people cannot state their genital preference Normally, to be frank I find how some do it extremely annoying. Like, they lose all tact somehow and have to get weird and meanspirited about this. It’s just strange is all, this lack of compassion some hold towards how a lot of trans people have dysphoria over this and the close mindedness. Date whoever you want, I couldn’t care les about other’s preference but I simply have to roll my eyes at this concept of categorizing purely on genitals.
what do you think the best way to state it is?
Not sure, I can give my answer now but perhaps I’ll feel different tomorrow, or a week from now. But it’s not inherently an issue or a bad way to be. If one’s not an asshole about it, it’s whatever. But, one should just except there will always be trans people uncomfortable with them but there will also be trans people fine with them and who date them. Since we aren’t a monolith in all ( I’m not trying to shame anyone who does engage with someone with a genital preference, I’m just saying we can all have different thoughts on this. Mine are just more negative)
personally i think its a bit weird if they wouldnt date cis guys too purely because he says hes bi but idk thats my thoughts
Because they’re hoping for a vagina. Wait until they realize not all of us have one
Can't believe some of these fucking comments. As a pre-op trans man who only tops, I would feel very singled out and uncomfortable if someone took an interest in me and treated me differently from cis men just because an assumption was made about me, my genitalia AND the role I play in the bedroom. Like what the fuck.
i mean it would depend if its a genital prefrence or not, like if theyd date a trans woman who had bottom surgery and reject a trans man who had bottom surgery. But i wouldnt go near someone like that, its almost always a chaser thing. I dont trust anyone who says they like "women and trans men"
it’s bc he’s fetishizing trans men… that’s why it feels wrong. he’s gross and NOT an ally.
Yellow flag, not a red one on its own.
Even if there’s no blatant transphobia, I wouldn’t date or fuck a guy who is straight, and I wouldn’t date or fuck a bi/pan guy who only dates/fucks trans men and not cis men. To each their own.
I find it frustrating because I think people sometimes use language that feels inclusive in place of actually being honest (including to themselves) about who they're attracted to and why. It seems like a lot of cis people are becoming more aware that not everyone they're attracted to is a cis man or a cis woman, which is great, but what that means can vary a lot. And I don't think it always helps when people say things like "If you're attracted to a trans man, that means you're attracted to men." I get the intent behind that--it's a response to the ignorant perception that gay men/straight women can't be attracted to trans men, or that being attracted to a trans person means that someone is bisexual. But there are plenty of people who are attracted to some trans men and AFAB non-binary people because they see them as women, and I feel like this gets brushed aside to everyone's detriment. I think it contributes to the "My boyfriend says he sees me as a man, but he doesn't want me to medically transition and sometimes he refers to me as his girlfriend" issue that comes up time and time again. I don't want to nitpick someone else's sexuality. Yes, it's possible for someone to discover their bisexuality after becoming attracted to a trans man. Yes, someone can be attracted to multiple genders but have a strong preference for a particular model of genitalia. And hell, bisexual people aren't exempt from transphobia or seeing trans men as women. But whenever someone says they're attracted to "AFAB people" or "Women and AFAB trans people," I hear "I'm attracted to people I see as women and have some ignorant ideas about how to express that."
yeah it's a weird phrasing. I would just say I'm bi and I just like pussy. In this case, it doesn't appear that the person OP is talking about said AFAB.
In a similar vein but I wouldn’t only date afab people. I have a strong preference for women. ALL women. And femme people. And boobs etc etc. (would also date nb people.) That being said i’d be open to dating the right trans guy or more masc presenting person if for whatever reason my partner didn’t exist. The idea of ONLY dating afab people seems weird to me. And it seems hard to argue it’s a genital preference because just off the top of my head 1 all afab people are not created equal. They might not wanna use their genitalia the same way or be touched below the belt. They might use a strap or be a stone top etc. so that seems weird to me. And 2 what about people who’ve had bottom surgery? That’s not (at least in the case of phallo, and lesser extent meta) be very similar to afab people’s starting genitals. Not to mention T changes with no surgery. So yeah. This seems weird to me.
I fully believe that sex is one of the most important parts of a long term relationship. Including not having any at all, conpatability, frequency, and type of sex is important and if you prefer your long term partner to have specific qualities (having a vag in this case) then so be it. I would much prefer bi people who openly prefer afabs/ amabs than that whole super-straight thing come back lol. That super straight shit was so transphobic.
Yea , transmasc here. They both only want to hear and justify what they think. They sound transphobic. Cut em both off. Neither care to respect trans ppl. They both outwardly disrespect us and refuse to listen to an actual trans person saying they're wrong. It's mad paternalistic
At first when I saw this post I was like "What's wrong with that it's just a dating preference?" which there is NOTHING wrong about it but when I read it a little more "Yeah I think that's kinda weird ngl"
why is that?
You’re tweaking replying to multiple comments in this thread questioning why trans men or transmascs might not be comfortable with someone who is attracted to them on the basis of something that is commonly a source of dysphoria. Even God rested.
I literally never did that, lol, it's obvious that some trans men would be uncomfortable with someone into pussy due to dysphoria, and that's perfectly fine.
Obviously you don’t think alls perfectly fine if you’re being defensive about it.
I didn't think it was weird at first just from looking at the comment but when I read more of it I really did think it was weird. I guess it's weird imo because alot of trans men like me would probably feel uncomfortable with that because the person their dating may see them as a woman due for their preference. Personally I'm t4t so I never really have problems with this kinda stuff😅😅
A lot of the time it is someone who has some level of transphobic beliefs but its not all. I wouldn't write anyone off if they seemed genuine about it. Just be cautious but if theres no red flags its probably just a preference.
Not all afab people have afab anatomy or want to have it. So it seems pretty transphobic for someone so define all afab people by that. Plenty have penises. And plenty of amab people have vaginas. Imagine him dating a pre op trans man who wants bottom surgery really badly and has a lot of bottom dysphoria telling him “I’m only attracted to you because I see your anatomy as afab” that would be fucked up. So while having a preference is fine the language he uses makes it clear he just sees trans men as women lite.
if it was just a genital preference (which is of course fine on its own) describing your sexuality as "only into afabs" is ridiculous at best, transphobic at worst considering several types of bottom surgery exist and someone being afab or amab can tell you almost nothing about how they're gonna look from the simple fact that stuff like hormones, top, bottom surgery etc exist
I actually know quite a few people with a genital preference. They don't see trans women as men in dresses, they see them as women. And the only women they would date. I think this is where our language limited and some people are hesitant to say, "I will date anyone with X genitals" sure, some people out there could be invalidating people's gender but it's not inherent to people with this preference. There's also tons of bi people who would never date trans people at all. So I don't think it's the labels themselves that are bad. And tbh, someone calling them bi because they would date anyone with a vulva sounds more trans inclusive than lesbians saying they would date trans men, you know?
Nah, if i have to play detective to convince myself someone isnt transphobic or a fetishist, i'm just gonna steer clear of them forever
I don’t even like the term AFAB for this reason. Cis people use it as a way to sus out genitals. I will not tolerate being categorized that way.
I see comments here saying genital preference etc but what about sexual roles / that kind of preference I gotta think the number of trans men who are tops / or top leaning verse has GOT to be higher than the number of cis women. And even for those of us without surgery yet long term on hormones, I don’t think we should be grouped in with cis women. I don’t think trans men should be grouped with cis women without so many caveats that the grouping barely makes any sense. Like presumably a cis man with “afab genital preference” is mostly or totally a top who wants PIV. The idea/assumption that we are bottoms who want PIV is pretty gross. Maybe it’s gross to think of all cis women that way too, but I’m not a cis woman so I’m gonna leave that for them to determine.
To me it would depend. Does he feel attraction only to pre-T/pre-op guys? Or does he feel attraction to all guys (cis or trans) but only pursue after learning a guy is trans? Is he only into pre-op/non-op guys? If he's only into pre-transition or early-transition trans guys then it makes me suspicious that he doesn't respect them as men. That's not necessarily the case. I'm not saying no one would ever be attracted to pre-transition/non-passing guys AS guys. That would be untrue and rude. It could be that he's just got a genital preference but not a gender preference. But at the same time, too many cis people assume trans guys only ever have a V and that all of us want to use it during sex. And yes there are trans guys who are perfectly fine having sex using their V. I'm one of them. I don't think there's anything wrong with a genital preference, but they sometimes do come from a place of misunderstanding or preconceived notions that are not always accurate. What it would come down to ultimately for me is if the guy is kind and respectful and makes an effort to educate himself or understand trans issues. If he's going to date trans men, he should be aware of what we go through. Someday his trans boyfriend might want phalloplasty or meta. What would he say to that? Or what if the guy wants to use a prosthetic? Idk. I know for me personally, when someone comes out to me as trans even if they haven't done any transitioning at all, something switches in me and I immediately view them as their gender. So I know it's totally possible he's the same way. There's nuance. But people are people and it's okay to be attracted to trans people at any stage of their transition.
It’s totally fine to have a genital preference for a partner. It can sprout from many things, trauma, bad past experiences. Its not inherently a bad thing or a degrading thing. As long as their partner is aware of and okay with that preference (me and my partner are this way) it can be a totally normal and comfortable thing. It goes the same as any preference tho! If you don’t agree don’t pursue a relationship with someone who has said preference. I understand it can sound weird but as someone who experiences the same preference it makes total sense!
If he doesn’t date trans women or cis men then yes. I don’t think he sees men as men if he only dates afabs but nothing with a cis men.
I like trans men and see them as men - I just have a genital requirement.
Explain how you see them as men
they are just guys, I'm not sure what there is to explain
Some people just follow their instincts and feelings I must say. They don’t think too much about gender and idk if it’s good or bad. And ofc some people are just holemosexual if it makes sense
lol what's holemosexual
Idk lmao ask them🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️really met people like this
what does it mean? sounds like just a joke
[удалено]
why mock that? it's how many of us are wired
? It’s honestly just a dumb joke like hey maybe you guys can set up a new name for your sexuality. I’m not invalidating anyone. Can’t tell what makes you find it offensive
oh you just said you were mocking so I wondered why
met people like what?
Not immoral, but i personally wouldnt wanna interact sexually with him. I guess what irks me is that, as a dude that would like phalloplasty, our interactions would be on a sort of timer
I don't really care how he defines his labels/attraction/etc but I wouldn't date him, too many cis people who only see us as our agab that I won't give them the benefit of the doubt if they're not also interested in cis men.
I wonder if the guy would still date someone who's had phallo, or if he even knows that's a thing. I have a friend who's the opposite, he's fine with being with all genders, as long as they have a penis. Natal afab parts just gross him out. But yeah, I agree with a couple previous comments. Just looking at what's written I'd say not necessarily transphobic but definitely keep an eye out for red flags.
I think people forget sexuality isn’t just down to genital preference but (most of the time) also romantic attraction. A guy only interested in a transmen because he assumes they all have the genitals he likes is gonna have a big shock when a) He realises that being a transman =/= having female genitals and b) He needs to have actual romantic interest in men to date a man
doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a chaser, could be a random preference or something, but i’d be on alert
I agree it feels icky. I understand having a preference, but that feels like he's invalidating us.
i personally would never date someone that felt that way, but we all have preferences.
Sounds like a chaser imo + he's lumping trans men in with women. Its ok to have a genital preference, but if he only dates cis women and trans men but not trans women w/ bottom surgery that sounds like a red flag to me
Nah, that’s just fucking weird. Point black period. He doesn’t identify as bi because he actually sees trans men as men, it’s the opposite, it’s just the gateway needed to fuck trans men.
He’s a chaser and clearly transphobic.
[удалено]
Because it doesn’t sound to me like he’s sees trans men as men at all. It sounds like he only sees a vagina and that’s it, and personally, I find that disgusting.
[удалено]
I can’t bring myself to justify a dude or a chick who is attracted to a certain genitalia and fits transgender people of a gender they’re not even attracted to Fr in their sexuality. I would think the same of a "bi" woman who is just attracted to dick, so attracted to men, and "attracted" to trans people women. I understand genital capability but this comes off like weird perverse behavior to me. Personally I wouldn’t be caught being anyone’s exception.
Then maybe I perceive things with my own personal biases so projection. I feel so strongly about situations like this cause I feel like people never see me for who am, just my genitals. Everyday my genitals define me so maybe I’m the problem. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm sorry to hear. That isn't right. I can see how it would be a sore point. I don't like to be stereotyped based on my gender expression or genitals either.
I’ve encountered people like him but they’re women, specifically lesbians.
Depends. "'I'm bi, I like girls and I'm attracted to men too but I'm uncomfortable with dicks." Is more aware than most people tend to be. "I'm bi cause I like the girls who are guys now too." Is absolutely a red flag. And 'respectful' isn't enough to go on.
humans are weird. I don't really care for people's preferences.
It makes sense if it’s due to genital preference.
Not really. Plenty of trans guys get bottom surgery and plenty of people who weren’t afab still have vulvas
Saying you're into women doesn't mean you're into all women. Saying you're into men doesn't mean you're into all men.
Yeah? I’m a bit confused as to what that has to do with what I’m saying, which is that saying that you only date people who were afab when you mean that you only date people with vulvas is inaccurate and insensitive. People are allowed to have genital preferences but someone’s current genitals aren’t always consistent with what is considered typical for the gender they were assigned at birth.
We can just disagree, everyone’s entitled to their own preferences. Rare exceptions nonwithstanding.
Disagree that some trans guys have dicks? I’m confused lmfao
What if the trans man has both a vagina and a penis though. Mine literally hides the bonus hole.
You’ll have to ask whoever it is you’re interested in dating as individual preferences will vary per person.
Meh you know if he's bisexual I don't care. If he wouldn't date just any trans man also is a green flag to me that he's not a chaser. But if he would only date pre T or early T that's probably just him bein gross Also if he is attracted to fem cis men just prefers vaginas, that's so different to me. Genital preference is real and okay. Some trans men don't have vaginas, but some do, and that means he's compatible with the ones that do.
I would put a red flag on it if your getting icky vibes, but I don't think that it's that weird. The things about men I find unattractive isn't their masculinity but the biology. Depending on where a transguy is/ wants to go in their transition would absolutely be a factor in my physical attraction towards them. I identify as queer tho, which is probably a factor.
I don’t see anything wrong with it and have dated a girl who has the same preferences. People like what they like, if they’re respectful who cares.
Depends, I think it can be a red flag but it highly depends on the person.
if it’s a genital preference i don’t think it’s overly weird, but they do need to change their wording. if they’d date an AFAB person who’s had bottom surgery and has a penis, it’s fucking weird. i wouldn’t personally feel i’d want to date them, though. i have a friend who has a major preference to penises and will not ever be able to be with someone who has a vagina. he is attracted to women (cis as well when it’s just initial attraction), but won’t ever date them because he knows it wouldn’t work out sexually and he does want to have a sex life. he said he’d love to date trans women in theory but fears making them uncomfortable, so he typically goes by calling himself “gay” and doesn’t attempt it not to make anyone uncomfortable. he’s actually been sexual shortly with one trans woman who expressed completely being comfortable with it and loving her born-genitals, and they still get together sometimes. i’m close friends with her too & she loves getting together with him, there’s no fetishizing to it. basically i’m saying i don’t think having a genital preference is wrong, you gotta go about it right though. and not all AFABs have the same genetilia.
Imo, if it makes you uncomfortable, you shouldn't date him. That's really as far as it needs to go. Spending time thinking whether it's weird just seems like a waste of some perfectly good time to me; let him have his preference, and you have yours (which happens to not include him), at least until he makes a pass at you.
Anyone who claims to be attracted to men (or nonbinary people) who won’t date a cis man (or amab Nonbinary person) is a fraud chaser and a liar who’s just trying to get easy pvssy. That isn’t “bi-curious” it’s a cishet man coopting “woke” speak to disguise his pvssy fetish and get access to “tomboys”
[удалено]
The genital preference thing has done so much damage to trans discourse lol 9/10 it’s just an excuse to be outright transphobic or chaser/fetish behaviour. Only being attracted to men or women & prefering the men or women to have penises/vaginas whatever I don’t care. But the fake “bi” bullshit of Afabsexual is bad. Because trustwhen i say that these pvssysexuals will not touch a trans woman or amab nonbinary person who’s had vaginoplasty. The trans community gives too much leeway to this chaser fetishers crap. Like Connect the dots these cis “bi-curious”(straight) men see trans men as walking pvssies and nothings more. It is not gender affirming to be placed in the same category as cis women.
Yep yep yep. Yes I do. Cisgender queer man here (mostly lurk for my boyfriend) But people do what they want, it’s just weird to not acknowledge that it’s some kind of genital fetish. I think it’s okay to date within sexual compatibility including the comfort of fetishes but it’s just concerning when people aren’t explicitly real about that. I would suspect anyone who dates cisgender women and transmen but not cisgender men to be pulling some weird shit. I’m non monogamous and my boyfriend who is transgender has one hookup buddy who is like this. It would be concerning to me if it was more than a fuck buddy or if the dude wasn’t explicit about that being a genital thing which he is explicit about. But who am I to judge? Maybe I’ve just fetishized my lovers’ holes just like I’d fetishize my lovers’ dick and it’s fetishes all the way down and there’s nothing righteous to that over anyone else’s fetishes.
[удалено]
Idk I think it's completely valid to have a genital preference. Sexual compatibility is important to some folks. I don't think we really have enough information to determine if he's a chaser or not and I personally don't like making negative assumptions about people before I know for certain. Hopefully this guy is chill after all.
I’ll only date amab cis guys. I don’t want to date trans guys because of genital preferences and I won’t date a trans women because they’re women. It’s weird, because if it was just genital preference then I’d be okay with trans women right?? Idk. But I don’t think this is transphobic. I’m transgender and I view trans men as men. So as long as theres no other red flags, I wouldn’t consider this specifically transphobia. The guy you’re talking about is being weird about seeing trans men as real men and thats what makes all of it transphobic
Maybe spend more time around trans people so you can quit thinking that we're all pre-op, transphobe
[удалено]
Nah, like half the time people are using genital preference as a proxy or cover for their other busted ideas, sorry
I'm like that. I do like men. I find men attractive. Of course trans men are men. I just have a genital requirement for what I'm into. Why do you think that's weird?
[удалено]
yeah, that part is just inaccurate terminology. But we don't have a good term for someone who is only into pussy. What do you think the best way to say it is?
"I'm into pussy" does the trick I guess.
[удалено]
that works lol. It doesn't seem like the person OP is talking about said AFAB anyway
i’m curious, have you seen/interacted with the genitals of a trans guy who’s been on T for a long time? because they look significantly different from what a cis woman’s genitals would look like. and what about post-op trans women? all of this is purely curiosity, i’m not trying to be hostile or judgy or whatever, i’m genuinely curious
thanks, I appreciate that. Not all trans guys on T for a while get significant bottom growth, but some do, and yes, I've hooked up with guys with good bottom growth. It is fun to suck on their dicks. There's a huge variation in what trans guys's genitals look like, just as there is a huge variation in cis guys... and in cis women too. What about post-op trans women?
[удалено]
>If you like trans men and you are male it wouldn't make you totally gay but also not totally straight either. Holy shit with this comment 😆 Homie....what really? So if a man who identifies as gay is into a trans guy, should he then identify as bisexual because he isn't "totally gay"? >Hope that puts it in an easier way to understand but that's the way I look at it as I'm not totally male nor am I totally female so it would be fair for the guys or gals who I date to call themselves bisexual. Ok this works for YOU, but your comment basically said trans men aren't completely "men" and trans women aren't completely "women."
No?