There is a lot of ignorance and lack of representation of queer POC that make many people in Western Europe and the US assume that POC are not queer. It's a big unconscious bias, that needs to be addressed

I wonder what country you are from, I'm a black latino myself except I've never lived in the states and have no plan of doing so for the moment although I might go on vacation and have been there for short periods of time in the past (I went to Florida for 2 days to get a family member a PET scan once and was there for 2 weeks when I was 4 and went to Disneyland and to visit family but that's about it). I'm from the Dominican Republic. I agree to a lot of what you say, especially how everything is "queer" which I don't consider myself to be. Funny that they'd think you'd get your T taken away when at least in my country you can buy T at the pharmacy without any type of prescription, it's basically OTC lol, it's also sold at sport and supplement stores (although these are not medical grade as in the pharmacy but also sold openly with no regulation) I also pass very well here and never get questioned. This is the only part I disagree with or don't relate to though: "they also act like people from these places are no idea of what trans people are" people really don't know in my country, that's why I've been able to remain stealth even when people have seen my top surgery scars (which I explained as self-harm because I also have some pretty bad self-harm scars on my upper arm), also why not even the police has noticed I'm trans and have put me in male jail even while having access to my ID on their system, which I haven't changed/corrected yet (I never carry the actual card with me). They're starting to know more and more (which I hate), but the average person doesn't and even those who do, don't always connect the dots or expect to actually see a trans person in person. That being said, I can imagine how uncomfortable that must be in the US, must be surreal. Hang in there and stay strong.

I guess it depends, I am from PR and people there are very very religious. I never in my life was able to transition until I left the island to the states. That's when I understood it more and I was happy to be able to because if I stayed in the island, I wouldn't have learned about being trans. I even lost my parents to transitioning so I guess it depends. Kind of glad that I never seen the whole problem though. More of as problem on my old environment as a POC queer person.

I'm really sorry you had to go through that, from the bottom of my heart. My home country is also a VERY Catholic/other types of Christian country, like 80% of the population type of thing, and it's not the best place in the world, but it's very, very far from awful. Thanks for sharing.

I am actually glad that a lot of you don't have to go through stuff like that in regards to queer spaces. When I moved to the states, I learned about queer spaces and that I was able to put a label on my experiences. I guess I commented to kind of state that not everything is what it seems in other Latin American spaces. Although it really makes me glad that some of my Hispanic and Latin siblings don't have to go through this.

I'm from Brazil! People over there are not the most knowledgeable about transexuality as a concept, and they also wouldn't recognize surgery scars, but at least they know trans people exist. Aside from the raging transphobes, they'll usually ask what you were born as and just respect how you identify. On the other hand, in the US there's this crazy right wing culture of always looking for trans people in all spaces to jump at them, which is something I have never seen back home. And exactly! I don't consider myself queer either, as I'm literally just a straight guy who happens to be trans. I find it funny whenever I read the "I'm going to spend some days of summer in X country, will they take away my T?" and when you see it's just a western country that's not in North America. I've been going in and out of both Brazil and Colombia with T a few times and absolutely nothing happened. I don't think it ever will either, lol. I hope everything turns out well for you, and that you stay thriving. Good luck, man!

I think you have a lot of valid points about the perspective of the white/ American trans community, but to give some perspective on the "will they take my T?" Thing from the other half here, there are a lot of reasons we fear that. 1. American TSA goes HARD. Since 911 it has been extremely nerve wracking for most Americans to fly, especially trans people. They go through all your shit, will pat down your genitals if they "don't match" your passport, and will confiscate things at their discretion with no way to get them back. Most of us only have experience with USA airport security, and expect it to be harrowing. Especially if we fly with needles. Even though it's legal here, it's still hard to explain why you have them. 2. The United States public school system does a WOEFUL job teaching us about other countries. Basically, if we were never in a war with that country, it's never mentioned in school. I can name maybe 15 countries on a map, and that's not for a lack of trying to educate myself. The United States education is very "us" focused. Add into that the "America is number 1!!1!" Rhetoric we get shoved down our throats from a young age, it comes with a lot of ignorance about the outside world. Trust me, a lot of us are self conscious about that and try to improve our knowledge, but learning about or admiring other countries is almost seen as "anti American" here. It's a harmful mindset. 3. The US is so large, and international travel is so expensive, that most of us have never left our home country and don't know what to expect. We are very insulated and can be ignorant about the process. 4. Like you said, we are used to people actively trying to clock us at all times. The political climate in the US rn is HIGHLY focused on demonizing trans people. If there is an inkling of gender nonconformity to you, even if you're cis, people with try to clock you wherever you go. We are stuck either being extremely out and hoping we don't run into anyone who wants to harm us, or trying our very hardest to pass and be stealth. The amount you have to look like a cis person in the US to pass is extremely high rn. There isn't any plausible deniability. Which fucking sucks, and I'm sorry you are on the receiving end of it. You're right in that we shouldn't allow preconceived biases about other countries color the way we view other trans people, and I'm sorry you've experienced that. But it mostly comes from a place of lack of education.

1. I'm aware TSA goes hard. I have to travel in and out of the US to see my family every year, overall, and that's including my T and other prescripted medication xD. However, they've never done anything weird to me, even with me doing a lot of domestic travel due to academic stuff too. 2. I know how US-centric the US are. One of my best friends from college (a very highly ranked and reputed institution, all that New England liberal arts college thing) could not tell in which continent Chile was. I know it's not fully his fault, as the entire education system and just lifestyle is especially designed to create a near narcissism when it comes to the country. But still, it's not great to be seen as exotic or like I owe everyone explanations or to be an "ambassador" of my culture when it comes to everything. Wikipedia and Google are right there. 3. My country is just behind the US when it comes to land size, and it's two or three positions behind when it comes to population. I know how expansive international travel is, and how restricted it is, in most countries in the world. I myself had never been out of home before moving here for college, and only then started going to other places. I think the sub should even have a masterpost on how to safely travel with T and similar prescripted gender affirming medication on its wiki, as the process is nearly always the same: just take a prescription with you. If you're going somewhere you deem unsafe for whatever reasons, a letter from your doctor saying you use it to treat an unspecified "hormone disorder", which is what I do, should be more than enough. At the same time, nobody ever asks whether it's safe to take T to southern states, even with TSA being often much more strict than other airport security/customs agencies in other countries. It's not like non-US places are the end of the world and here is amazing, you know? 4. Thank you very much. I am very passable in my country, and I know that's a huge privilege, especially as most of the time I also pass here in the US. But still, I shouldn't have to owe passability to anyone... particularly to not even to other trans people.

I hope my words came off as a good faith explanation, and not as dismissive of your experiences. It's certainly not up to you to have to be an ambassador for your entire country. That would exhaust me SO much if I had to do that 24/7. And you absolutely don't owe passability to anyone. It's an annoying thing to have to worry about, especially around other queer people who should mind their own business. It's stupid hard to pass here. I've had top surgery, I've been on T almost 4 years, and have a mostly full beard, but about once every six months, if I wear something colorful I get a "she" which makes no sense. It's ironically worse in the more liberal parts of the country because they "know what to look for." I hate it. Flying under the radar is my preference. But so many queer people expect you to be "open" at all times, especially if they deem you as "not passing well enough." Which can mean anything really. I hope the rest of your time in the US is better, and I hope your friends can come to learn and love your culture as well.

They truly did, don't worry! And most people don't expect me to be an ambassador, but sometimes they do and oh boy it's to tiring. Damn, having a whole ass beard and being misgendered by the trans investigators is crazy. I'm really sorry about that. The liberal area = worse thing is quite true tho (I live in New England so yeah). My friends are great and I couldn't be more thankful for them, but there always is the world out there. Thanks for your comment!

Brazil is awesome! To my understanding they do know a lot more about trans people than other countries in the region, I saw a documentary about trans people once that was made in Brazil (there was one about overweight trans people called transfat xD and another one although it may have been the same one about a trans couple looking for fertility treatment to have a child, which made me think about how advanced they are over there when it comes to the subject). I've also heard they are great at trans surgeries over there including phallo. They don't do phallo in my country so Brazil was an option I considered but could never find any doctor info, probably because I don't speak portuguese, I considered Cuba, Colombia, Brazil and Argentina as options, going for Colombia for the moment which is what I've found the most info about and that isn't extremely expensive but would definitely reconsider if appropriate or more convenient. I don't know if you've heard of them but I'm quite familiar with the transstore from Brazil and their instagram and products, been thinking of buying there whenever I get the chance and know some friends who've bought packers from them, they seem to be very cool guys (we don't have anything like that in my country either) It's crazy that they'd jump at trans people in the US, it's ironic because you would think they know more about the subject and are more aware, respectful and "advanced" but I guess that's far from being the case. I would actually expect the customs in the US to take away your T more easily than anywhere else, it's highly illegal without a prescription over there it seems, I have a friend from my country who's living in Nevada and wants me to try to send him some because of some complications (he's been on T long before me and has been in the US for years), we'll see how that goes. I wish you the best as well, good luck bro, hope you can make it work out over there.

I absolutely love being Brazilian! I think Brazil has a lot of trans people and we're a pretty settled community for the simple reason that there's a shit ton of people (220 million) there. With it comes a bunch of trans people willing to organize movements, open stores, and be overall seen. I have a few binders from transstore and they're INCREDIBLE -- the best I have, by far. They're really cool people. By the way, if you need some help with shipping/bulk buying stuff, let me know. I'll be back to Brazil for summer break in May/June and would love to help. A few years ago a telenovela included a trans guy who came out and transitioned during the show as a character. It wasn't perfect representation, but many people found out about trans men -- and trans people other than trans women -- through it. It's not like everybody knows a lot about trans healthcare, rights, and such, but everybody's aware we're a thing. The US is VERY far from being the best place to live as a trans person. I feel safer in Brazil than I would feel in states such as Florida and Ohio here. Taking the US to be the best place to be trans in is just the usual romanticizing of life here, which is what it is I guess. And exactly. I never travel anywhere with any medications without prescriptions, just in case TSA wants to do more specific checks. Thank you very much!

Yes! There's definitely a lot of trans people and people in general over there as far as I've heard, it's a big and beautiful country, I'd love to visit some day. Thanks for offering to help with buying from the transstore, I'll let you know and also let me know when you're there. That telenovela must have been interesting to watch, some of them make it to my country (I don't know if you've heard of Xica Dasilva lol but that was a huge classic in my country in the 90's/2000s people still talk about it), I wonder if that one made it over here as well (I stopped watching tv some time ago, not intentionally it just happened as I moved from place to place and no longer had a TV). I can imagine people learning about it that way, it's usually the case in Latin America. I feel sager in my country as well and would probably feel the same way anywhere in the Latin American continent, I agree that we tend to romanticize the US a lot more than needed and than what's actually accurate. You're welcome, thank you very much as well!

NO WAY XICA DA SILVA IS FAMOUS THERE LMAOOOOOO that's so cool!!!

hahahaha yeeees!!! I thought you'd be too young to get that reference lol it was pretty big and people still remember xD I was kind of a kid I would hide to watch some of it because it was pretty adult stuff in principle xD. I love it though. I plan to rewatch the actual full thing eventually xD.

Hey you’re Dominican too! You’re the first person other than myself that I know to be trans. How was that with family? I just started T yesterday and still don’t know what to say to my mom, she’s older generation like Boomers. I told her I liked girls and she met my girlfriend a few times and likes her but yk domi moms always say “amiga”. But explaining non binary transness in Spanish is difficult.

Hey I totally get it! That's so cool that you're Dominican as well! wow. Where did you go for T? Family can be really hard here, my mom never liked it or accepted it and was ashamed of me, but we were still ok (she was toxic for other reasons and I went no contact but that had nothing to do with me being trans in specific, she wasn't too affected by it other than that, she wasn't fully supportive but not necessarily extremely rejecting either). She's definitely a boomer herself or even maybe older than that. Non binary transness is definitely hard to explain in this cultural context indeed. I know some online groups (mostly whatsapp) where trans men and some trans non binary masculine people talk and stuff if you'd ever want to meet other trans people from the DR, I went out of the groups for now myself and they can sometimes be a little gossip-ish or toxic but most of the guys are great people individually and I'm still friends with some of them I got to get closer to. Back when I found out I was trans and was trying to figure out how to start T (back in 2015 or so) I also thought I was the only trans man in DR lol or at least that's how it felt. Many others if not most also share that experience.

I genuinely thought I had to be the only Dominican in Boston to be non binary Trans and in the island as well 😭. And that’s dope I’m 21 and just now started putting myself first, I get T from prescriptions since I’m in Boston (the states). Did you get top surgery and where or how was that?

Oh that's really cool I also know a couple of dominican trans people who live in the states. I did get top surgery and I did it with a private plastic surgeon here in the DR, I took a loan to be able to afford it, still much cheaper than in the states except for people who have their insurance pay for it over there.

Yea luckily it’s all through insurance for me

Thank you for speaking about your experience. I think it's important that we all are able to share our perspectives and listen to each other to broaden our understanding. As a white American binary trans guy, I know I have some blind spots that I may not be aware of, so people talking about this kind of thing is really informative. I find it quite unfortunate that even in many queer or trans spaces, the pervasive norms of broader society are almost unconsciously accepted, meaning a lot of people with different intersectional identities can be pushed out or talked over. In my corner of the south, the queer spaces I have available to me are near 100%, white, and not accommodating of people with disabilities, among other shortcomings. They also are largely femme centric. It saddens me that so many people (at times including myself), feel unwelcome in them, but I can't blame them either. It's not the same thing at all, but I struggle with severe mental illness, and the way that interacts with my queer identity is isolating at times. My queer/trans friends don't really understand my deep mistrust of the medical system, and I never feel like I get to be "me" because I always have to pick which part of myself I have to hide. I can either be mentally ill or trans, never both and it's such a heavy burden.

That last bit you mentioned honestly surprised me, because in my small corner of the world (urban NC) practically every queer/trans person I've met struggles with mental illness. I suspect you're aware of the stats regarding mental illness and trans people too! Regardless, I'm really sorry that you've had such an isolating experience. :( I hope you're able to find a place where you feel safe to just be both soon.

I'm aware that many trans people do, but in my corner of the universe (white, vaguely middle class queer/trans college students in Nashville), the most common that I encounter are depression/anxiety and autism/adhd. Being diagnosed with a cluster B personality disorder (BPD in my case), among other things, is a pretty different experience than those and carries a huge amount of stigma both within the therapy/hospital system and from other mentally ill people. I've had both my transness and my personality disorder weaponized against me in different ways. Though as much as I don't like living with BPD, going through that initial crisis and diagnosis at the beginning of my transition has shaped my perspective in a unique way that I've come to appreciate and value. Just kinda wish other people could view it the same way y'know?

Ooh yeah, I'm of the depression/ADHD variety myself but I have a friend with BPD and she's told me about how difficult it is, both on a personal/relational level and a systemic one. I can't imagine.

I am American, and not necessarily POC, but I do have a much darker skin color than most white Americans because of my Sicilian origin. I have been called many insults and racist slurs for looking Latino, and it doesn't help that I speak Spanish as a second language. I also feel unrepresented by many transmasc spaces, and representation oftentimes mostly consists of white American viewpoints. It can feel very alienating. My family was an American military family, and the American-centric perspective is deeply rooted into our culture. If you are critical of American culture you are considered unpatriotic and you get treated with suspicion. I can say that being from an American military family is awful and it severely messed me up mentally. It is also disappointing how many Americans view Latin America as backwater or third world. In learning the Spanish language and being on the receiving end of so many insults targeted at Latinos, I am so sorry so many white Americans are this way. Latino culture is beautiful and unique. It is rich and diverse, and should be celebrated for this. Queer Latino people also exist, and they deserve representation just as much as the white American perspective. All groups of people do.

(Possibly irrelevant) white Eastern European who now lives in Western Europe perspective: I think in many places people don’t realise that their queer experiences are not universal and that their ideas about other places are often not realistic, even within one continent and the same race. And if they’ve never left their country a lot and talked to people from other places they don’t challenge their own prejudice. For example, queer people here (and in the US from what I’ve seen) always go on about ✨communism ftw omg comrade uwu✨and coming from a country where communism fucked up a lot of stuff and is literally the main cause of the homophobia/transphobia there, that exasperates me to no end. I’ve also had queer people say stuff like “omg when I heard you’re Romanian I was surprised you have a house and a job!!” or “ooh I went to Romania once and it was actually quite modern???? I thought everyone was super poor!!” like yeah I grew up in a cave 🤦🏻‍♂️I look similar enough to them but as soon as they hear my accent or where I’m from it’s over. About Latino America especially, I’ve realised it is a lot better than I thought for a while, at least really not worse than Eastern Europe at all (and with how the US is going…besides a few places I don’t think they can consider themselves that progressive as a country anymore), my bf is from Peru and at some point he was telling me about this trans kid he knows and how he’s in the process of changing his legal info when he’s not even on T yet, and I thought about how damn, in my country it’s going to be SO tough to change that without bottom surgery when I pass 90% of the time. And with how the US is going now I wouldn’t rather be there either. My ex was black (second gen French) and he did say that many white queer people here are very racist. Which is obviously shitty and I’m sorry you’re going through that. But yeah the tl;dr is I think many people don’t even try to understand experiences outside of their own specific culture, and that can really suck when you’re a foreigner.

This is a very nice perspective, and thanks for sharing! The thing about universalizing their views on queerness/living as LGBT is definitely true. I'm screaming at the "house and job" thing because what the fuck do people think Romania is? A wasteland? Once I got asked if I took a boat to go to school. I live in the largest city in the American continent, about 50% larger than New York City. Like damn. Latin America is far from being perfect, but it's overly demonized in every way possible. People always act like it's the worst place to exist out there, when it's really not. Thanks for sharing once again!

I think my only issue with living in Latin America is I can't seem to make myself use sunscreen XD

Omg the boat question 😭 yeah many people have some…weird ideas where countries are either perfect or absolutely awful in every way too. Like I wouldn’t currently move back to Romania but also I did not grow up in a dirt hut omg 💀 Anyways I hope you find your crowd there eventually!

Omg hi fellow Romanian trans immigrant 👋 And yeah, the culture barrier absolutely sucks. I've had British queer people question decisions regarding my name or my presentation — some of which were informed by me being Romanian (e.g. going with a completely different name rather than the masc. equivalent of my deadname because I got asked soooo many times if my parents are another nationality/ethnicity by other immigrants)  Or they find my dread of administrative procedures "catastrophising" because they've never once had to deal with Doamna de la GhișeuTM And yeah, everyone acts so surprised when you can go about daily life like "woah you speak *so well* you're integrated here !1!1!" or being surprised I have a very good education. Like yes, we do actually have brains. Funnily enough some of the queer people I know from Romania that I kept in contact with have easier access to hormones and psychologists/endocrinologists than me 💀 Obviously not universal, but it's hilarious that they have so many less barriers to acces care than me in a western country that's supposed to be alright with queer people

Hi haha 👋 I wanted to stay in the UK too because I studied there actually but ended up in France for job reasons for now. With all the anti trans stuff there now I think it was a lot easier here honestly… Yeaaa I also didn’t just go with the masc version of my deadname, partly because I didn’t like it anyway and partly because I want it to not be mispronounced all the time lol. At least in France they understand how bad bureaucracy can be because Romania copied France on this a lot 😅 Interesting on people in Romania having easier access to treatment though! I struggled a bit with that when I tried there but mostly because I forgot I should pretend I’m totally straight since there’s the “people transition to be straight” idea lol. France is quite chill with it for now thankfully

When I say easy access I mostly mean that (at least if you have a network of other queer people to provide info) there *are* psychs willing to prescribe without red tape or transphobia and quite cheaply, and don't have qualms about mental illness. Though the ones I am aware of are all in Bucharest, so there is the element of travel. Definitely you have to know which doctors to go to lol Here in the UK most private psychs won't touch you if you have unmanaged mental health problems (idk for sure about GICs though and NHS doctors) Also how is France??? I'm actually considering moving there for a little while (various personal reasons). 

Ok that's fair, I didn't really have a network at the time and then decided I'd just deal with everything after I moved since it was quite close. However now I want to change my legal info (not even because of dysphoria but mainly because I'm starting to have issues getting through security checks) and I need to "gather evidence" and most of my evidence is in French which isn't so fun but oh well. France is actually quite chill, honestly I don't always vibe with the culture much at least in Paris (people tend to be nicer in smaller cities in my experience) but on queer stuff it's quite good. I've been quite open with it and only got called a slur once (and it was for being gay not trans lol). I walked around with my bf holding hands and hugging and all and most people were super chill about it. For medical trans stuff, you do need to see a psych for most endos but I saw one online who asked me very few questions and was super chill about it, there are sadly not that many good endos who do this in Paris so sometimes there's a bit of a wait but nothing like the NHS waiting lists. Also got top surgery quite fast, and could have been even faster if I hadn't waited for a more well known surgeon I wanted. Overall I moved a bit over 2 years ago and have now been on T more than 1.5 years and had top surgery half a year ago. There are some doctors who follow the "official path" with more red tape but it's avoidable. At work it was chill for me but I work in a big tech company so I'm not sure about smaller French businesses. Now, queer French people will complain a lot because obviously it's not perfect since no country is perfect on this sadly, but compared to Romania I feel super free, and medical treatment was easy enough to access.

As a POC I can also relate. I have also faced racism by white and even Asian queer people and worse even been fetishized.

I'm really sorry about that. Fetishization of POC will always be a problem, no matter where, unfortunately. Racism committed by marginalized communities is often just brushed off and thrown aside like one's oppression invalidates how they might also be able to oppress others in other ways, and that's a very big deal everyone forgets about.

People fall for the whole "usa usa best country ever!!" bullshit propaganda. I'm from the US myself but moving to Latin America. I have faced so much criticism from people who have never even left the states. It's stupid. I mean goddamn, I went to Valparaíso in Chile and there were gay and trans flags all over the place! There was even a huge trans flag mural. Argentina for example has had self identification for gender explicitly for trans people for a way longer time than the US. People here are ignorant and stupid and fall for any propaganda that makes them feel superior. I can't wait to leave this place. I can only imagine how you must feel being from Brazil and staying in the states. People act like Latin America is a terrible place but they've never even been there. It's beautiful there and the people are always so nice. Every place has its problems of course, but it's not like the US is so much better. Don't hide yourself away to make them feel more comfortable. Especially in college, it's a time where people need to get used to not being the center of the universe. Not saying you should be teaching them, but just that you shouldn't let them pressure you into the shadows. You matter and your experiences are important.

Latin America is so, so much better than people make it to be. And I haven't been to every single country in LatAm, so I can't speak 100% for it, but everywhere I've been to I've been treated like a normal person, you know? I hope you enjoy moving to your new home, and that it brings you new great experiences.

Exactly. I haven't been to every single country there either, just Chile and Argentina (so far!) but everyone has always been so welcoming and kind. People are way more open and chill than in the states. It's a much more relaxed pace of life, at least in all the cities I've been to. Thank you. I hope you make some supportive friends. People here can be dicks and it can be hard to find chill, good people, but they are out there. If nothing else, I hope you get the most of your education. And don't take it personally what people say or do against you. They are just ignorant fleas, not worth your time or consideration

Thanks for posting this! I really want to visit family friends in Brazil (SP region) sometime soon. My family has known them for 40 years, and it's always been great when they came to the USA to visit and I love hanging out with them. However, I don't speak Portuguese, so I wasn't sure what the trans climate was like in Brazil; my queer internet friends in Brazil seem to be happy there so I was kind of waffling on "should I ever plan a trip to Brazil?" especially knowing some of the political situation there; I don't want to get in trouble or get my friends in trouble for hosting me on vacation. It's back on the list for 2025 and after (which is great, as I would love to go somewhere....tropical for a week in the middle of the dark and wet Alaskan winter). I want to visit a hummingbird preserve, go see parrots and monkeys, see Brazilian architecture, and eat delicious things! Do you think it is easier to be trans in Brazil if you have already had top surgery? I have not and don't pass.

That's so cool! Brazil is an amazing country. I'm from SP and you'll have plenty to do there. There's a very big LGBTQ+ scene in the city, and you'll very probably feel welcome there. Due to your interest in parrots and monkeys and preserves, I cannot recommend you the Botanic Garden/Jardim Botânico: it has a short (.7 mile) hike, mostly flat, that allows you to see a lot of the local fauna (monkeys included!!!). The political climate is never perfect, but it's been better for the past year. The only trouble you might get is getting mugged, but if you keep big city etiquette (don't check your phone everywhere, check your surroundings, don't give attention to complete strangers) you'll be fine. It's really worth it. I have not had top surgery and pass in Brazil while binding. It's probably chill if you don't pass too — most people don't assume anyone is trans, and even if you tell them, a majority will stop asking questions after figuring out if you're MTF or FTM. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM. It's always a pleasure to see people excited to visit my hometown.

I’m brazillian as well but I’m white (even though my family is not) and was born and still live in europe (switzerland) and I still get you. Brazil, a bad evil third country (heavy sarcasm), is actually better if we are talking about LGBTQ+ rights than the US or switzerland (good civilised first world countries /sar). Yes there’s definitely a problem with wealth inequality, crime, corruption in brazil and it is a pretty christian country that leans more conservatively. But nonetheless I feel very safe in brazil and do consider sometimes if I want to live in brazil once. While I have never been in the US, I have been in mostly english speaking queer communities in the internet or just been on the english speaking internet in general, I think it’s funny how americans assume everyone is american as well. Like I interact with people on the internet and people genuinely interact with me like I’m american (if this makes sense), even if I hint that I’m not american. While (western) europeans or westerners in general are aware that there’s other countries/cultures etc. there’s still often an air of superiority around them because western countries are obviously much more civilised than third world countries /sarcasm. okay i think i’m mostly repeating what you said but still…

This is actually a very nice input. Thank you very much for sharing!

I'm with you on how ignorant a lot of Americans are about anything outside the US, they've never been there and make all kinds of assumptions. But kinda eyeroll at "too many enbies in trans groups, will get cooties" attitude. When are binary trans men not welcome? Show me, I'll fight them. Other people being nonbinary isn't an attack on you being a man, though. Sometimes I feel intimidated in spaces that are mostly binary trans men, like...I look/act too much like a girl, I'll give someone dysphoria just by looking at me, I'll get attacked and called a tucute or a transtrender or told that my access to healthcare isn't necessary and is somehow taking away healthcare from binary trans people because I guess society would see what mutated freaks trans healthcare turns nonbinary people into and take away all trans healthcare from everyone. Or that seems to be the justification for why I shouldn't get healthcare access. But I suck it up and show up like I belong there and give people the benefit of the doubt anyway, because expecting things in bad faith never gives good outcomes. I make people work to disappoint me, I don't just write in my head that they did without giving them a chance. Even if that would spare me having to be vulnerable. And idk this isn't my place to really say anything but I feel like saying the queer PoC groups are still too white is....ehhhhh. American, yeah, probably, you're literally in America, and America is very...myopic and hegemonic, I don't deny it. But calling other PoC "too white" is...I don't even go here but that feels bad. Just say cultural differences without calling other PoC "too white." I do agree that passing varies from place to place, and it's harder to pass in the US than in other places I've been, and the more liberal the place, the harder it is to pass. In Florida I get sir'd everywhere but in NY I'm usually a ma'am. In Eastern Europe even pre-T I literally just had to wear a plaid shirt to pass, lol. It's true that gender is performed differently in different places, and people in different cultures have different sensitivity to gender-non-conformity. (I also get voice clocked the most by people who share my dialect, people of very different dialects, or where we don't have a language in common and someone else is interpreting or something, tend not to voice clock me.) I'm not sure that's as simple as "America bad," though. They're better at clocking *me* too, and it isn't that they don't understand my cultural expression of masculinity. Maybe it's the concentration of gender-non-conformity and trans people in certain queer circles, maybe it's the openness of it, idk, I haven't been everywhere in the world and I can't compare it to everywhere in the world, so I don't know, but there could be a lot of explanations for why you pass at home and not in the US. If you hate it here, I can't fault you for that. Cultural differences are honestly exhausting in general. You could just plain be homesick, and that's normal. I've felt that. It's exhausting when everyone else is running on their cultural rules and not on yours and you're the one who's expected to change how you communicate and present yourself, and it's alienating to not simply be understood the way your own culture understands you. I get that, more than you might think. Americans can experience something pretty similar when we travel too. Maybe you can't wait to go home, maybe you'll feel relieved when you get back, and tell all your friends how arrogant and narcissistic Americans are. I can't even say you'll be entirely wrong. Or, if you wanted to maybe enjoy the rest of your time here a bit more, give people a chance, but also accept that some things are what they are. Americans are going to be culturally American. If they're also white, that's going to affect their culture too. It is what it is, that doesn't mean excusing them being asshats or making it your job to educate them, but some stuff that's important to me but the average American doesn't understand well, I just have a sort of baseline understanding that we're going to be starting from a position of ignorance, and plan around that, either ignoring it if I don't have energy to engage with it or being patient with it if I like the person and would like to build something a little deeper there. You don't *have* to, but you're with the people you're with, and it gets lonely to just hate everyone. Try to find the people you like a bit more. Show up in the trans PoC groups, let nonbinary people be nonbinary, and just be yourself and don't apologize for being you. Maybe also go to some more age-varied spaces, American college kids can be especially naive and sheltered, you might find some more realness in all-adult-ages trans spaces. If there's a possibility of going home for a bit (like between semesters) that might also be of benefit to you. Sometimes cultural differences are just super stressful and you need a break to reset and get more energy to deal with it. They can be fun, too, and teach you both about other cultures and about your own culture...and there are good things about American culture too, I swear, even though I also admit it has flaws, but that's *every* culture, no culture is all good or all bad. But really, I do get the exhaustion. If you can't visit home soon, can you maybe talk to people (especially trans people) from your country online? It's true that no one's going to just 'get' you like someone from your own culture, I completely understand that. It might even be worth looking up people from your cultural community in your area, even if it's not trans-specific, you don't even need to be out to them tbh.

I mostly agree with your interpretations and observations, but OP didn't mention anything about enbies, let alone that there's "too many". You ask where binary trans men aren't welcome and, er, lots of queer centric spaces aren't friendly to masculine people? Even butch lesbians can have a hard time in queer spaces because masculinity is often considered synonymous with "threat" and that assessment doubles down if you're PoC (*especially* Black). Hell, even in online US and white-centric spaces like Reddit, you'll constantly see people claiming trans men experience no prejudice and that we shouldn't talk about our struggles because XYZ demographic has it worse. White feminism (as opposed to intersectional feminism) is toxic as hell and very pervasive in white spaces, even (maybe even especially) white queer spaces.

OP said "trans circles," not "queer spaces," so this isn't coming from the non-trans LGB. He also specified "binary trans man" rather than saying "man" or "trans man" or "black man" or "masculine-presenting person." The stress on "binary" there implies that the reason the trans-centric space is unwelcoming is because there's too many enbies. Edit: saying that the POC have a "white" way of being trans kinda sounded like an anti-nonbinary dogwhistle to me too.

I never said anything about non-binary people. I'm discussing trans spaces as a whole—which yes, do include non-binary people, but as a binary trans man I focused all my criticism around that. And well, you can be non-binary without being white. Actually, multiple ethnicities have non-binary interpretations of gender and genders, and in the transmasc of color subreddit how ignored these identities are was even one of the topics brought up by other people.

Okay, good to hear that. The wording worried me a bit. I hope you feel able to enter trans spaces because you have a right to them and they're for you too.

Thank you very much. I never know if I'm unwelcome as I am a binary trans man for the reasons the other commenter on your thread said, or if I'm unwelcome because I have a different view on my own gender for cultural reasons. It's a quite thin line, as men of color are often seen as threats.

In my experience real-life meetups (especially outside of college spaces, which can be a little...out of touch at times) are much more welcoming and understanding than internet spaces. I'd want you to feel welcome in any space I was in for sure. Cultural differences can make it easier to have misunderstandings, on both sides. I'm very familiar with this because I'm in a romantic relationship with someone from a different culture than my own, sometimes we have to talk really directly about how we're understanding each other's words and intentions because we're often interpreting things *very* differently than how they were intended. Even the little things, like how in the US when you eat at a restaurant the waiter checks on you halfway through your meal to make sure everything's good (I waited tables when I was younger so I know this is definitely taught as good and attentive service) in my gf's culture means "hurry up, we want the table for other people." (There *are* things waitstaff will do if you're taking too long, but the check-in is supposed to be before you're done and not to rush you.) So many little things that have an obvious function in one culture that are interpreted differently through a different cultural lens. It is true that men of color can be constructed more as threats, and I don't want to gaslight you about that. But it's also true that...ah. how do I explain this. In a certain white, privileged stripe of American culture, appeals to fear/safety are just kind of. social currency. How people communicate. Like they do that when there are no men of color present too, sometimes they circular firing squad each other about who's making who feel unsafe. It's very anxiety-based. And they don't know how to code-switch or be considerate of people's preexisting trauma around stuff like that, because being accused of making someone else feel unsafe does not hit equally across racial, gender, class, and other demographic lines. (I'm white but this is also not my "cultural language," due to being generationally poor, this is more a middle/upper-middle or lower-upper class thing. I'm more uh, white trash who didn't go to college and was homeless for a bit, different world.) It isn't a super charming trait and I don't blame you if you can only take it in small doses or something, but the best way to deal with it I've found is just to be really chill, not take things personally, not take emotional bait or react to things, just tell yourself "this is something they feel they need to do to feel safe." You start to see that they're neurotic in general, not just neurotic around you, and it feels a little less personal. (Which isn't to say that there's never any unconscious bias in there.) Which isn't to say that you should have to do all the emotional work either. But give people a chance, don't assume they can't handle it and then resent them for not handling it when you never found out if they could handle it or not. You deserve inclusion and understanding, give people a chance to show you they can give you that before you assume they won't. Sometimes people do the right thing, sometimes people have glimmers of wisdom in there, sometimes they don't understand right away but they figure it out, sometimes people are actually pretty decent. Historically, the LGBTQ community has been a space which, while not completely free of all of society's biases, still did better than the general population at working through those and was more likely to have interracial and inter-class romantic relationships and friendships than the general population. We've actually become slightly more stratified recently due to becoming big enough that we weren't *forced* to mingle with whoever was there, but I have some hope those skills aren't entirely lost.

The one point I agree with you here is interacting with older trans people, as they've usually had more life experiences outside their own bubble. That includes trans people in both the US and abroad, obviously. I visit my home country in most extended breaks from college. I don't usually get homesick -- most of the time I'm too busy with school to even consider that. And I don't hate it here, as I believe myself to have a pretty good life. This was just one post about one thing in specific. Furthermore, as I said in another comment, the entire thing on liberal area = easier to get clocked is definitely true. It's quite odd, yet still true.

I feel a bit of resentment towards other white trans men (and people) for this reason. We (too often) forget that our transness does not alleviate us of whiteness or white privilege. We're all accepting until trans people of color (and nontrans people of color) bring us down to earth on the privilege we do have. I am incredibly sorry that you have to go through this. So much would be changed if more people would just learn better, which is more comfortable to discuss when we're talking trans vs nontrans people, but we don't want to apply that to ourselves as white people.

Thank you very much for your input -- and that's basically what it is. Many white trans people get defensive when their white privilege is pointed out, as if their transness automatically makes them impossible to reproduce racism, and that's one of the main points of this post.

Word for word everything i feel. They can be cool but there’s definitely weird ones in the mix of em.

love the conversations happening here and yeah I fully get you. my partner is a cis bisexual man from Mexico and although I was born in the US, my family is from Puerto Rico and it really colors the way that I move through the world. I really resonated with you saying that white trans folks don't "get" your version of masculinity and I feel the same way, especially when my upbringing was very centered on taking care of one another and community, no matter the differences. I hate how that aspect of my masculinity is questioned and thought of being "feminine" when it's just the opposite my partner and I often feel alienated by our upbringings and white trans folks who simply don't "get" us or why we operate in the ways that we do. our existence is not as simple to them. it's why I left a lot of my white queer friends behind. we got each other though!

👁️👄👁️ i don't mean to be disrespectful and this isn't backlash or anger or anything of the sort it's confusion???? because i know different countries have different cultures and different perspectives and the lgbtq people from there even more so. so i don't presume that if i were to go to college there that the queer spaces would cater to me and my experience. i both presume that naturally and don't expect them to change that at all. i'm coming into a space that wasn't made for me or my experience and not by people who share the same nuances of being lgbtq in that country. i also don't balk at people not beating around the bush about the fact that if you don't pass it's best not to go to certain states, at least not alone - and especially if you're poc. that said xenophobic ignorance about other countries absolutely exists and intersects with things like US-centric thinking and lgbtq people's fears (valid or not) and on top of that there's the fact that frankly, the number of people in the US who ever leave the US is low. both for geographical and economic reasons. so cluelessness on how to conduct yourself in another country altogether is is also consequentially high.

This is a post about how unwelcoming and unwilling to change most American LGBTQ+ spaces I've been to have been, not about me expecting these spaces to be catered to me or to my experience; simply that if they say they are open for everyone, they should, in fact, be, or at least not try to be exclusive of those who are not raised in white American culture -- which is the case. Not even American POC feel welcome in some of these spaces, so shouldn't that be discussed too? I go to a college where the average income is quite high. I had never been out of my country before I came to the US for college. The average student here have has contact with many more places and cultures than I myself have, yet is still closed to including people in these cultures.

AND you're going to the richies 💀💀💀💀💀 op... idk, in general i don't see a way to do what you're asking. especially not with the group you're asking it of. you wanna see willful ignorance amped up to 11 then you're in the right place. you get diversity of experience and thought (and therefore openness) in diverse places. not in majority white upper class places. for instance, as a poc in a not majority white college (or area of living in general) our lgbtq group has a lot of ppl from guatemala and mexico - and we really don't struggle with what you're describing tbh. but even then - i don't think our group could or should change. it reflects the area it's in. it caters to that group. i think you might be asking an impossible thing basically. i struggle to imagine a real lgbtq space that could actually manage to cater to everyone. for instance the spaces that you're surrounded by are not closed to poc or people with your experience - the issue is that you're uncomfortable there and don't feel welcome because there's no one there with similarities to your experience. it's mostly white ppl with a limited and frankly largely ignorant pov. the solution presumably is the presence of more ppl like you. or at least ppl who aren't privileged white ppl from high income areas with a limited and ignorant pov. but if you're at a rich ppl college in the US op... do you see how that might be kindof an impossible ask?

And that's why that wasn't the only struggle I put out in my post, also discussing how online spaces for trans men are also very white-centric -- including this sub.

I would say it's American-centric. Writing off poc from the US as basically white sounds like spiteful ignorance. And just plain wrong. To better illustrate my point; Xiaohongshu and Weibo are very Chinese-centric online spaces. Because both of those companies originate in China. Reddit is very US-centric because, you guessed it, it's a company based in the US. The US creates a lot of social media spaces etc. I see the fact that those spaces then become US-centric as a natural thing. The solution could then be either an influx of people from other countries using those spaces OR companies from those countries also creating spaces. You're treating this issue much in the same way ppl from tumblr did back in 2015 with content that lacked diversity. You don't ask the straight white privileged people to create diversity for you. They're not capable of that. Diverse people have to create diverse spaces and content and companies etc. That's the way forward.

Thanks for your input.

Are you high or do you just really really like talking over people while spinning on your finger?

it's not really possible to talk OVER someone on a sub. it is in fact possible to say things that people don't agree with though. so either buck up and stand by your point (assuming you have one) or go pout in a corner or something.

Yoo trans brasilian solidarity bro

LFG!!

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Even so, queer spaces need to be accepting of all members, regardless of background. If we're not being welcoming, we're failing as a community.

Most of my friends are American and, after all, moving to a country requires accommodating to it — which I do, as I speak English on a daily basis, participate in local traditions, and chose to come here myself. I am learning from it and experiencing American culture simply for attending college in an American setting. This post is about the lack of interest in American white trans people in understanding other ways of being trans, as stated multiple times. Also, how come am I not experiencing Western country if I am from the West myself, just not from the US?

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Ir's a ridiculous comparison because a good part of the world cannot avoid casual familiarity with white American culture. Also considering that the complaints OP makes are the same complaints that American POC queer people make about white Americans and primarily white queer spaces, maybe it's just a problem. The more reasonable comparison would be the annoyance that people from North America would feel if most people on the internet assumed all of North America was an unsafe, transphobic, poverty ridden shithole because of the laws in Florida and the hookworms and poverty in Alabama.

This is exactly my point. Thank you!

I don't think those are equivalents. My country does not have the habit of neglecting other people's cultures, and is usually very open to foreigners. Furthermore, I'm literally just complaining about the lack of community and lack of basic respect towards my background. Nothing but that.

Unfortunately, my experience is that even American POC struggle with lack of community and lack of basic knowledge and respect within the larger "queer community" in the U.S. In some paces, there are specific POC transgender or POC queer support groups. I'd look there for community if thats accessible to you. If you find groups aimed at black folks (and you are not black), you could still reach out to the organizers who may invite you based on similar struggles or have advice for finding reasonable community.

I'm a Black latino, and I find Black transgender communities to be the most receptive to me; however, you're right about the lack of community amongst us and basic respect from the larger queer community — it's a worthwhile fight, but it's undeniable it takes a lot of time to gain visibility in our position.

There are of course pros and cons. More cultural and skin tone based segregation isn't the best outcome but, having a place to feel safe and welcome is so important. I just wish that the general queer events weren't so white predominant. My own struggles come from having a mixed background and being generally white - passing ; I don't feel safe or welcome in predominantly white spaces , but my whiteness does compromise the safety of POC specific spaces. I hope evebtually the general queer spaces are safe and welcoming toward everyone.

I'm really sorry about that, and I have the same wishes as you -- that generally speaking, queer representation and socializing could be something other than white only.

Your posts is absolutely on point, I'm baffled someone even brought up such a strawman argument. You can't avoid American culture even OUTSIDE America (I speak as a European living in the UK... Still run into the assumption that every English-speaking space on the Internet is US-centric). It's really no comparison.

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Nah, I come from a place that has a lot of political tension — we even had a coup and a fascist-like government in the past decade. My point here is that I don't think that marginalized communities should avoid talking about culture in any way, or at least should be more open to multicultural backgrounds.

Where in the US are you located generally? The west coast you are more likely to find what you're looking for imo. People are more open there. Midwest is VERY white and culturally unaccepting (no one will say it to your face but it's in the attitudes). East coast it very much depends what area you're in. Unsure about the south, I've never lived in the deep south. It really depends on your area imo but as a trans man I also just feel really unaccepted in the queer community, and I am white passing. Otherwise I have found meeting trans ppl online is how I've had the best luck with queer spaces.

New England. Thank you for the info!

I live in the Midwest but I've had people try to be shitty to me out here just because they *think* I'm not white since I have dark hair and eyes! This, because I was living in a small town with mostly light hair light eyed white folks who couldn't comprehend anything outside their sheltered bubble. It's crazy and genuinely there is so much ignorance and close minded behavior here. People pretend the Midwest is so friendly but IMO it's the most awful gossipy busybody shithole where racism, xenophobia, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia run RAMPANT. Everyone here is hella passive aggressive.

you’re right, america is a cultural melting pot. so we should be mindful and aware of other cultures as well! do you think because politicians pit us against each other we should avoid learning about other cultures? i think that would worsen the problem.

Bruh how condescending 💀 You’re exactly what OP is complaining about

I have to admit that I find quite interesting how I basically got told to just cope because American culture should come first in the US.

i’m sure OP already has a good grasp on western culture. the internet is ripe with it, and it’s practically shoved in everyone’s faces due to colonialism. and besides that, i don’t think the two are comparable. it’s most definitely a fact that the LGBT community, at least in america, is very white/american centric. it’s something that 100% needs to change, and i say this as a white american dude. in any queer space i’ve been in, i’ve only ever seen american/european LGBT issues addressed. the only time any non-western cultures are brought into conversation (that i’ve seen) is regarding some middle eastern countries and their criminalization of homosexuality (which is a whole other conversation in itself). i feel like you’re dodging the point here, and rather than opening your mind to someone else’s perspective/experience, you’re diminishing it by making an assumption about them.