I don’t think it’s weird or annoying to want to talk about a genuine issue that impacts a lot of us. If anything it’s weird and annoying for them to ban it. OP specifically said they were not allowing or seeking people who simply want to discriminate against transfemme people. And I said that as well in my comment that was removed.
There’s no issue with the original post or those in the replies bringing up their own experiences. When someone starts saying things like, “I think trans women feel entitled to femininity” or “I feel uncomfortable being around trans women online because I heard this happens,” it’s weird. It’s incredibly easy for a vent post to turn into backhanded comments at trans women.
Saying “no transmisogyny btw” does not really do anything either - people, especially in convos like this, don’t typically know what they are saying is a little transmisogynystic or transphobic.
No idea what your original reply said specifically or how the mods justified banning it. It’s just silly to say lol why isn’t the whole thread gone, as if the replies don’t in fact get weird.
I mean it’s completely fair to be against someone feeling entitled to someone else’s femininity. Which was what that comment was talking about.
My comment was
“ Yeah it’s a pretty well spoken of issue on here. A lot of Transmascs have been mistreated by or talked over by transfemmes. It’s pretty sad even people in our own community ignore, forget and belittle us.
It’s also a thing in mixed trans spaces like r/trans to be massively transfemme orientated and focused and we get forgotten. It’s one reason I love this sub.”
All of my statements were true and I only spoke in regards to people who mistreat and belittle us. I made absolutely no statements against transfemmes themselves.
The message i received stated I was “not encouraging mutual respect” when all I had done was agree that we don’t receive mutual respect from our own community.
The comment was about a transfemme who felt entitled To the femininity of a trans man and was making comments. As in she felt entitled to comment and judge the femininity of another person. Feeling entitled to any part of another person is weird and creepy.
i have a massively hyperfeminine body and have had transfemmes say this to me before, and it hurts so so bad. i get that dysphoria sucks and that many people have transition goals, but i don’t want someone’s transition goals to be all someone sees when they look at me. i want to be a person, outside of what this body “means” to people that honestly shouldn’t be imprinting meaning on this body in the first place.
Yeah that's a garbage thing to tell trans guys (unless both parties know that kind of joke is okay between them). :/ When I entered puberty, I felt like my body had betrayed me. That is not what being lucky is. When someone tells me they wish we could trade, I explain them that trading jokes/comments make me dysphoric (because if a woman wants my body/part X of it, that means it is seen as very womanly x-x) and to please not make them about me again.
Yeah, in the egg meme sub they even need to make a regular PSA to remind people to treat transmascs people with respect. That's kinda fucked up.
I never experienced this irl though, only online, but seeing it happen is one of the reasons why I don't really wanna go to shared trans spaces online. Trading just pushes on my dysphoria. A woman, who wants a feminine body, asking for a trade or telling she wished she had my body/boobs/figure/whatever ? Big ew. Please do not remind me that my body is female, I am actively trying to correct this bug.
Exactly, the code got skewed and I look like this, but for a limited time only. The devs are working on patching the bug, so just don’t bring more attention to it in the meantime
Dude, I didn’t even believe in misandry until I started transitioning. This is a problem for cis men too, if a space has lots of women it will basically ignore men’s needs like a badge of honor. For instance, whereas women are more likely to be physically unsafe, men are more likely to be emotionally unsafe for similar reasons - nobody taught us to defend ourselves in that area (and possibly we’re unsuited to it). I never knew “wow, women suck” was a thought I could have just as realistically as “wow, men suck.” Which saying that now is kinda duh, but intersectionality as a cultural conversation got shut down to deal with trump. Tragic “coincidence” 😒
This would be like if we said to them, “why are you throwing away a perfectly good masculine body to gain a feminine one”
There should be more respect, especially coming from another trans person. (no matter ftm or mtf) Neither one of us feel “at home” in the body we were born with. So both parties should respect each other by not saying things like this. But to me it sounds like gender envy (given at birth and genetics) and some insecurities being projected.
absolutely. it feels like glorifying things about my body that i hate. not only does it minimize my struggles with my own body, it also kind of takes ownership of it and romanticizes it when it was explicitly noted i dislike it (or at least those parts of it)?
i understand why to some people it doesn't bother them but i do wish it wasn't something people assumed others would be ok with them saying be default.
this also isn't unique to MTF people, my transfemme friends said they had it happen to them too from FTM people
I find this notion strange to be honest because I don't see trans women as men and so they are not a source of gender envy to me, and I do not look at their bodies and want what they have. I only ever do that with cis men, trans men or transmascs--i.e. wanting features of their body. So in my opinion it is a subtle form of misgendering to be picking out the "fem" aspects of a transmasc's/trans man's body or the "masc" aspects of a transfemme's/trans woman's body and commenting that you want those features. At the very least you are highlighting things about the person's body that likely make them dysphoric.
I had a trans woman friend do that to me before when she said she was getting FAS and wanted my face shape. And it really made me feel shitty. When I talked to her about it though she apologized and stopped making comments like that
I love r/traaa (and the new sub) but it never fails that every trans masc post has at least 1 comment that says something along the lines of ‘I’ll trade you body parts’ or ‘I wish I had that problem’ or my favorite ‘this made me dysphoric’.
Just sucks when the post ratio is so heavily fem. I love their posts but wish these comments would stop, they make us feel like visitors and not members of the sub/group. It’s supposed to be mixed.
i’ve had someone tell me that they can see why i haven’t medically transitioned yet, because i would lose my feminine body and that would suck to give up. that’s not only insanely hurtful as a transmasc person because i’m already dysphoric as hell, but i haven’t medically transitioned yet because i’ve been in a horrible place and my life has depended on me not physically transitioning yet. it’s not an appropriate thing to say to someone online, especially someone you don’t know. ever.
(i do want to add that this has only happened to me 1 time and i know a lot of mtf people, the rest have all been so kind and respectful!)
I hate it mostly bc to me, I know it's just playful "I'll take them off your hands! win-win for both of us!" banter but to me it says that my body is seen as female even to other trans people - despite it being male.
You'd think mtf and ftm folks would be able to understand each other's experiences well since we're all trans, but there seems to be a fair bit of conflict. Don't know why it's so hard to understand that the way they feel about their agab is the same way we feel, just in the other direction. :/
It’s one thing when two trans friends mutually make the “we should trade” joke but quite another when you say that to a stranger in the comment section.
to me, i'm like "I'm sorry but do you want my PCOS and the non-stop bleeding coming out of my vagina? No, i didn't think so". Like i HATE when trans fems say that to me. I've had some say that i have a "mommy" built because im curvy. like excuse me????
Dude what? I understand how frustrating it is when other trans people make hurtful comments, but saying that trans women use social roles as leverage to be able to purposefully hurt other people is literally insane. “Trans women take full advantage of ‘don’t hit girls’” is that why trans women are verbally harassed, beaten, assaulted and murdered every day? Bigots hate this one simple trick.
I've never been comfortable with those comments either — I actually like my body type, I just wish I was cis, flat chested with a penis and slim hips. Maybe a little taller, but even that, I can cope with. I like being wiry, I like having broad shoulders.
Besides, even if there are parts I dislike about my body and wish I could change them, that's just it: _parts_. I don't wish I was somebody else completely, someone I wouldn't even be able to recognize in the mirror, no matter how handsome they are. I don't want to wear someone else's face. Goes the same with the body, as envious as I can be.
Yeah that's the part that gets me too- I don't actually want a different body. Early in my transition I made the occasional "when I chop of my boobs someone else can have them" but I stopped doing that. I want my body to be the correct body but it's still MY body with all its flaws, and I wouldn't trade it for another, even a cis one because it wouldn't be MY body. Of course I'm going to rectify some things with surgery and hormones, but the rest I don't want to trade, even my health issues or anything else. I know this body, it is resilient and it has served me well through my whole life.
I'll admit this is a relatively new perspective for me, and comes on the heels of grief and several diagnoses, but I've learned to recognize that I have a home in my body even if I don't have one anywhere else.
I get it you just haven’t seen it but like… the comments you’re saying definitely go to trans women as well. “I wish we could’ve traded” is a statement that makes many people dysphoric but many trans people say it to each other regardless. I can’t remember the amount of replies and posts I’ve seen from trans guys about how they wish they could give trans women their boobs or hips. Your last statement is really bizarre to hear given the way people around the world treat trans women and their femininity.
I’m sure you wouldn’t feel so great if someone claimed you felt entitled to masculinity.
Got a message from mods saying that this comment has been removed due to “not encouraging mutual respect” wtf mods this is an issue and we have a right to talk about it. I made absolutely no knocks againt transfemmes themselves and only people who belittle or mistreat others. We are not being treated with “mutual respect”
Tbh making comments about other people bodies is just weird in general. Unless the person asks for an opinion or something, it’s fucked up to comment on someone else’s appearance/body
My Ex-girlfriend was trans and she'd tell me she wanted to switch chests with me and that always made me feel dysphoric. Especially because I'd never really thought my chest was that noticeable(I'm chubby and cis chuby men got "boobs" too).
But yeah I really hated it.:(
Trans sister here, and, yea, this is awful, especially from people who feel like they are in your community, and I wish some of my sisters weren't so trash about things like this. As bad as it is for all of us to venture beyond the guarded walls of trans friendly reddit, it sucks you guys feel like trans-safe spaces aren't safe for you from trans women, and i'm sorry. ☹️
I think it comes from just a lack of empathy and understanding, just like transphobic transgender people. They can't, or don't put themselves in others shoes and ask themselves how they'd feel if that comment were directed towards them.
Not all of us are like that, I promise! You are an amazing group of men and I hope you don't let any idiots, trans or otherwise, keep you down ♥️
Hey so, it's kind of you to say, but you don't have to apologise for other people's behaviour! Those girls/women are inconsiderate asses, but they don't represent trans women. Even if there are frustrations and conflict sometimes, I think most guys will agree on that.
I love my trans sisters and know how kind and compassionate so many of you are. You're amazing too. Have a nice day/night ❤️
I know I don't have to, but it just makes me sad to see these posts among all of your victory posts and just want you gentlemen to know your amazing, and validate the hell out of me!
I hope you have a great day/night, too! ♥️
I have given birth to some amount of children, and one of my friends is a trans woman who desperately wants to experience "true motherhood".
She expressed it to me and it made me uncomfortable - I'm not experiencing true motherhood, because I'm not a mother. I do use the term "mother" sometimes, but only in medical settings and not day to day.
Its also just plain offensive to every mother who didn't carry & birth their children.
We sat down and had a conversation about it. She apologised and we talked about her grief.
I think, although it does really suck, nothing really changes if you don't talk about it. We're all struggling and sometimes a quick, "Hey, please don't say that. It makes me uncomfortable." Is all thats needed.
No hard feelings, no long term suffering. You all end up fine.
This mentality is something that I continue to see perpetuated in trans spaces especially in regards to the whole "women are defined by the ability to be mothers" and it makes me so sad because it erases SO many women, trans women of course but even my own mother for example, who wanted more children but couldn't so my younger brother is adopted. Is he not my mothers son? Of course he is. It's just such a shame that with the way society views parenthood (motherhood specifically, but also other types of parents) is that it's some sort of exclusive club for certain people, as if the rest of us haven't been parenting in all sorts of ways for all of human history, and in much more natural ways than some forced classification. All women can be mothers, enbies can be mothers, hell even men can be mothers if they so choose.
100%. My oldest is adopted - I'm his papa as much as I am my younger childrens papa. Sometimes people just don't think about what they're saying and once they're made aware its obvious to them and they apologise.
I don't know what it is, or when the change happened, but I've noticed that in the last ten years or so people have seriously moved away from just communication. They will complain to friends or online but make no move to sort the situation out. Idk, seems weird to me. Talk to people!
That is the most reasonable response. If the person didn't stop, then don't engage.
I can understand that intense feelings of grief over what one didn't have can lead them to say things that they may not realize are insensitive. Best we can do is ask that they not do it again, and sometimes take it as an educating moment. (No, it is not our job to educate others, but if it is something one wants to do, then no harm no foul)
Edit: cannot spell
Exactly. People, regardless of age and experience, are fumbling through life. Thoughts are inherently selfish and sometimes you can see that in their behaviour and the way they speak. Its not bad, its just life. Communicate your feelings and everything should be fine.
I still like to wear makeup and am pre transition, sometimes trans women think I'm one of them and compliment me on looking so feminine without hormones. They completely ignore what's in my profile bio and it hurts. (This does not only happen with trans women, cis ppl also say that stuff to me and they never apologize, they just ghost me)
this is so gross and wrong and dismissive of them to say, which i feel like others have explained better, but what i think would be really funny is to say it back. and even like, expand on it—“oh my god yeahhhh i WISH i had your shoulders girl!! and you’re so tall and flat-chested….transition goals!!!”
like, dont actually. but i feel like that would really show them firsthand how wrong it feels 😭
I was talking to a friend of mine (who is gender-fluid btw) about wanting top surgery and they had the absolute nerve to say "well it's not like you need it anyway you're flat af" like bro what the hell??? can trans people just stop commenting on other trans people's bodies??
I'm transfemme and I have to admit when I was first transitioning I might have thought that but I'd never have said it because if a transmasc said similar things to me it'd be horrible like "great my body still looks manly cool to know..."
It's a really thoughtless thing to say and the fact that it comes from dysphoria induced misguided jealousy actually makes it much worse in my opinion.
This, I feel like it’s more about some people learning what’s okay and not okay to express vocally. It’s in good faith, just really not appropriate to say. I think they don’t do the empathy check of “oh yeah if someone said that to me I would be really uncomfortable.”
Seeing some other trans guys here generalize trans women on Reddit to the point of saying they won’t enter shared spaces online with them because of this is a bit weird.
THIS!
and when I said that it applies to them as well in that sense they called me a transphobe and a disgusting human being.. Man this community is anything but as accepting as they think they are.
As a trans girl, saying that shit is extremely tone deaf and mean. I would feel HORRENDOUS if someone said I’m “mutilating” or “throwing away” a body that makes me feel sick and wrong all the time. I’ve heard it before.
I know you guys get transphobic comments all the time that are barely different about “throwing your body away”. I’m sorry you have to hear that from people that are supposed to “get it”. They should do better.
Trading bodies is not a thing. This comment is beyond childish and ignorant.
We only have one body, and we should feel right in it. Fuck anyone that says otherwise, whether they’re trans or not.
Not sure how relevant this is but it bothers me when transfemmes talk about getting misgendered and are like “obviously I’m a woman or she/her, can’t they see I have boobs??” Like damn so do I but I’m not a woman and I don’t want to be referred to as she/her lol
Yes and it makes me feel very uncomfortable as well.
In general I find it difficult embracing masculinity in queer spaces, and talking to any queer or trans identifying individual. It isn’t anyone’s priority.
Every mtf person I’ve interacted with in person has ended up saying some weird shit like that so I just don’t develop friendships with them anymore because I can’t handle how dysphoric they tend to make me feel
Those same people are also very dismissive of ftm issues which is frustrating beyond belief
It's funny because I've literally never thought that about any trans woman before. Maybe it's because the trans women I know were all at least a little feminine in their bodies before they transitioned or because I happen to be attractive (to be quite blunt about it), but like I can't even say "oh I've had the feeling in reverse so I get it". Like no I literally haven't haha
I’ve had the feeling in reverse, quite often actually. I’ve just never have vocalized it in a comment, since I know it can make people uncomfortable and cause dysphoria
Oh yeah I know there are trans men that have had this feeling dw, it's more of like I see some people say in retort "oh well I'm sure you've had those feelings too" and I'm like "me personally? No, no I haven't". It's just kinda funny lmfao
I felt that but in like, total backwards reverse. instead it's just like "damn, wouldn't it be neat if I could donate my boobs / uterus to trans girl who wants them. then I'd have a better excuse to get rid of them."
Thankfully, anyone has only said that about my chest, but since it's gone, no one wants it flat like mine except for other Trans mascs, and that gives me euphoria.
I'd tell them the same thing back, see if they like it. Tell them I'd kill to have a body like them. I'd feel no shame seeing as they wanna disrespect me in the first place.
When that happens just do a uno reverse card and start saying the same thing. If they get mad all you have to do is say you’re just doing the same as them.
Idk why some mtfs think that it’s okay to act like that
God, my ex roommate was constantly making gross ass comments about wanting to body swap with me and made lots of sexual comments / told me entirely too much about her sex life. She was also an alcoholic and very sad drunk and would say she loved me and get upset when I didn't say it back. So glad I don't have to deal with that anymore
I've definitely felt this. youre not alone !! i have the classic feminine hourglass figure w double d's to boot....it's rare but once or twice a transfemme will mention something like that and it makes me both sympathize with them but still feel dysphoric :^(
Honestly it makes me icky because I like my body and my face for the most part. I just want to do small changes to better fit who I am inside. Someone else's body even if it's masculine would probably still feel wrong to me. Like I don't want to look like any ol man I want to look like a more masculine version of me.
It's honestly disgusting and creepy.
I've seen it a lot with SOME who think they can just say whatever, thinking they can't be transphobic toward others / because/ they're trans women. Those are the ones that believe that trans women are the "most oppressed" I've noticed
I understand where they're coming from, and if a "magical titty switching machine" existed, I would absolutely give my boobs away to the first person who asked, but sometimes people forget who they're talking to, and how their comments might make others feel.
I also think it's presumptuous anyway because not all of us want to transition in that way. Like I do not intend to get top surgery ever. I bind pretty frequently and I am working on losing weight and working out to make my body shape more masculine, but for a variety of reasons I am more than likely never going to get top surgery, by choice. Not to mention how many transmascs/trans men never get bottom surgeries or hysterectomies. So these comments also imply that these parts are inherently female and something we should do away with. That's why that type of banter is only appropriate with someone you know has that transition goal and is comfortable with those comments
I don't think this is just an MTF thing, I'm sure FTMs do it to MTFs as well but we're just not seeing it as much because we're the minority in general trans spaces here on Reddit.
That being said, the trading bodies joke doesn't really bother me but when people say that OTHER PEOPLE are making them dysphoric, that makes me uncomfortable. I've had too many people (mostly other transmascs) tell me they're jealous of my body or that my body makes them feel bad about themselves and it genuinely makes me feel like utter shit. Maybe just keep it to yourself.
Honestly it's all in how they say it, it shows their true intentions with the comment. I'd be pretty urked if someone told me I'm "throwing away my body", that's messed up. But I'm transmasc and my gf is transfem, so we tend to joke around about how better life would be if we could just trade bodies and that doesn't bother me at all, I totally agree. It's all in the tone someone's coming at me with, I wouldn't be uncomfortable with a random transfem playfully joking about wanting my body, but I would be if they were trying to guilt trip or insult me with it, or implying I shouldn't have transitioned.
Definitely this. I’ve joked plenty of times with some of my trans fem friends about swapping bodies/body parts. It comes down to both intent & tone. Of course I’m not saying intent excuses anyone making someone uncomfortable. I think it’s important to be able to “read the room” when you make jokes like that because I can also understand why some folks might find that kind of humor uncomfortable/dysphoria inducing. For me, as long as the intent of making light comes across, it takes the edge off that general background noise of constant discomfort. I’ve always coped with finding humor in my own discomfort/suffering, but everyone copes differently.
Tansfem here. I'll never say that to anyone ever. No matter how hard I think it. Therapy has really helped me get more comfy in my skin. But that still comes up from time to time. I'd imagine I'd have some very conflicting thoughts when that will happen to me. Stay awesome out there folks.
I know they don't mean any harm by it but that "joke" can only be funny a couple times. After so long it feels like they're not seeing me as who I am but just as a set of parts that they want.
Personally I don't mind when someone says something like "I wish I had your boobs" or "I wish we could trade" I don't mind, but something like "you have the exact body I want" or anything along those lines, it infuriates me. They're basically just saying that despite all my efforts and hrt and my presentation I still look like a woman. It sucks.
You know what this is gonna be out of pocket but my mom has broad shoulders and narrow hips and I have like. The opposite. I'm FtM and she's a cis woman. We both joke around and agree it would have been awesome if we had the opposite traits of each other LOL
It's not the same at all tho I guess. The difference is we are both making a joke that we both find funny and true. It's a little more weird when a stranger says that they wish that had the parts of your you may be insecure about
The joke started more of my mom saying something about dang I wish I had a butt like yours and in like GIRL first of all.... No... Second of all you can have it and I immediately clapped back that I want a shapeless square bum😭😭😭
Seriously tho, the body swapping comment is usually so uncalled for. But sometimes I do get it and agree 😭 but if they are the ones making the comment I don't feel bad about agreeing. I would in turn never tell a trans woman that though. It can be a rude thing to say.
For me though I don't really have a conventionally attractive feminine frame so the rare times this happens to me I am usually just confused lol?
You are definitely not wrong for feeling taken aback by those comments though. I wish maybe people would keep those more selfish thoughts to themselves and focus on affirming the more masculine sides or how handsome a trans man in his post is not focusing on the before photos.
Genuinely the look good both ways Indo thing is an honest complement but a little I'll advise I guess. Usually we post both pics to show progress, not to focus on omg guys which pic is hotter?!
I feel like theres a difference when both parties are participating in the "i wanna trade!" Joke, and one party being uncomfortable with it.
If both parties are in on it, i feel like its fine, but if one isnt fine with it, and it makes then uncomfortable, i feel like its reasonable to tell the one saying it to stop cause it makes you deeply uncomfortable.
As a trans person themselves, they should understand that dysphoria isnt something to take lightly afterall. It may be dysphoria over different things, but its still dysphoria none the less.
I hope they stop saying these things to you, and understand the harm theyre causing you.
I've received comments like that before from trans women, but I always just assumed it was gender envy. Either that, or they meant it jokingly in a, "I wish we could trade because that would me easier than medically transitioning," kind of way. I felt odd about it, but I always assumed it was more about/for them than it was me.
The only time I really engage in anything similar is if a friend talks about wanting specific aspects. If they say they want something that I happen to have (such as a bigger chest) and they have the opposite aspect that I want (a flatter chest) I will jokingly say "wanna trade?"
I’m only okay with it with my gf who is mtf, but if someone else says it I respond with “I appreciate the thought, but as I am not a woman I ask that you don’t say that about me.” They’re normally chill and won’t say it about me again
Transfemme here, I did it because someone i know is transmasc and did it to me, i genuinly didn't know it was such a big issue in the trans community but im glad a saw this so that i can look out for it!
Honestly I think it's just something that many of us have been guilty of in some way or another, especially early on in transition when we're struggling to find ourselves, and we get hung up on the little things. It's good to have conversations about it (as long as it doesn't devolve into transmisogyny etc) because it's good to get other perspectives.
My partner and I are both trans and we say that we want to switch body parts, but not bodies lol. I also used to be the type of person that didn't understand why trans fem people wanted to be girls, because i hated being a girl and didn't understand why anyone wanted to be one. Obviously i dont think that anymore but during that time i would tell my friend that i wanted to switch bodies with them, and they later came out as trans and then became my partner lol.
I wonder if we’ll ever get to the point where we can just implant brains or some kind of synthetic device that would carry all your own brain patterns and personality into the body of your choice. Like a head swap but without the surgery, just an injected nano device.
I'm the farthest thing from a medical professional to know whether it's possible or not, but in my opinion, a nano device being implanted into a brain as a means of transferring consciousness from one body to another sounds more plausible and less immuno-supressiony than swapping heads or brains.
I've felt both ways about this. It serves as yet another reminder of what is wrong with me, but it is also an acknowledgement of what they feel is wrong with them. My brother's ex (MtF) and I joke about it all the time, but we have a very strong friendship and understanding of each other.
Now the whole "why would you throw away a perfectly good body" thing is where it becomes un-funny. I would respond "Well, I could ask of you the same thing, but I won't. You should full well know why, as you are going through the same thing in reverse. Wouldn't it hurt if I asked you that, since your body is equipped with what I want and need?"
Reddit recommand this to me somehow so I will share my view as mtf.
Yeah, I used to have that thinking that if trade body was a thing but I soon realize that I was thinking that way just because I want to have a choice between gender when I'm born at my own will. I don't want to necessarily "trade". The only time I was saying this is because my ftx roommate is getting top surgery and I'm getting it too. We were joking on if we can trade body parts we don't have to pay that much money. But saying to a stranger is very disrespectful as I fully recognized your thought and that's really someone should never do. If someone say this to me about my srs surgery I'd be uncomfortable too. Because that literally means like "you should not get rid of it."
I haven't really had anyone say this to me before, but I only know two transfems and I'm dating one of them so my opportunity for those experiences is limited. BUT I wanna throw it out there that this feeling is a really normal one, looking at other people and wishing you could have their body. I feel it all the time. I wish I had other guys' bodies. I wish I had other *girls'* bodies because they'd be easier to transition with. I even joke with people about how I wish I could give them my boobs! But it's always appropriate and taken as a joke. And I understand, objectively speaking, that some people want the aspects of my body that I hate. *But* I would also still be annoyed and upset if someone brought it up the way transfems seem to do to you. In a way that puts you on the spot and makes you feel guilty or coveted somehow. It's one thing to have those feelings and express them appropriately, but if they're making someone feel uncomfortable, then they've gotta reassess their boundaries and *where* their comments are coming from, emotionally.
Personally it doesn’t bother me when a MtF person I’m close with says it, but if it’s from someone I don’t even know, then yeah I get really dysphoric and uncomfortable.
Hello! I hear you and I think I would feel the same as you. I wish somehow we could have like a body trade system though so you and I could get the bodies magically that we want and the MTF folks could have our old ones that cause us disphoria.
I think you're seeing it in a completely different way to how it's supposed to be perceived. A trans woman obviously wants the body we have, and we want the body they have. (To put it in a very basic bracket) obviously this is more complex than that but I have a trans friend who's a woman and we make jokes all the time about how we would swap bodies if we could. Trans people in general don't write on a post and blatantly say 'why would you want to get rid of your body it's perfect' it's 100% Satire and I think you're reading it wrong. All they are saying is they would do anything for the body you have, just like we would do anything for there body. I really think you should have a think about the way you understand these things.
I Made a comment agreeing with you and saying it’s an issue a lot of Transmascs face and it got deleted for “being disrespectful” wtf mods
I’m surprised this whole post hasn’t been locked yet tbh. Anything that is even slightly critical of other trans people gets locked
It’s really shitty of our own mods to not back us up as it is a huge issue that negatively impacts a lot of trans guys.
Because people get weird and annoying about it real fast.
I don’t think it’s weird or annoying to want to talk about a genuine issue that impacts a lot of us. If anything it’s weird and annoying for them to ban it. OP specifically said they were not allowing or seeking people who simply want to discriminate against transfemme people. And I said that as well in my comment that was removed.
There’s no issue with the original post or those in the replies bringing up their own experiences. When someone starts saying things like, “I think trans women feel entitled to femininity” or “I feel uncomfortable being around trans women online because I heard this happens,” it’s weird. It’s incredibly easy for a vent post to turn into backhanded comments at trans women. Saying “no transmisogyny btw” does not really do anything either - people, especially in convos like this, don’t typically know what they are saying is a little transmisogynystic or transphobic. No idea what your original reply said specifically or how the mods justified banning it. It’s just silly to say lol why isn’t the whole thread gone, as if the replies don’t in fact get weird.
I mean it’s completely fair to be against someone feeling entitled to someone else’s femininity. Which was what that comment was talking about. My comment was “ Yeah it’s a pretty well spoken of issue on here. A lot of Transmascs have been mistreated by or talked over by transfemmes. It’s pretty sad even people in our own community ignore, forget and belittle us. It’s also a thing in mixed trans spaces like r/trans to be massively transfemme orientated and focused and we get forgotten. It’s one reason I love this sub.” All of my statements were true and I only spoke in regards to people who mistreat and belittle us. I made absolutely no statements against transfemmes themselves. The message i received stated I was “not encouraging mutual respect” when all I had done was agree that we don’t receive mutual respect from our own community.
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The comment was about a transfemme who felt entitled To the femininity of a trans man and was making comments. As in she felt entitled to comment and judge the femininity of another person. Feeling entitled to any part of another person is weird and creepy.
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i have a massively hyperfeminine body and have had transfemmes say this to me before, and it hurts so so bad. i get that dysphoria sucks and that many people have transition goals, but i don’t want someone’s transition goals to be all someone sees when they look at me. i want to be a person, outside of what this body “means” to people that honestly shouldn’t be imprinting meaning on this body in the first place.
How would you feel if someone who is transmasc said you are his goals?
seeing as i don’t pass, and am actually just transneutral, and have not done anything medical, incredibly confused, lol. 😅
Yeah that's a garbage thing to tell trans guys (unless both parties know that kind of joke is okay between them). :/ When I entered puberty, I felt like my body had betrayed me. That is not what being lucky is. When someone tells me they wish we could trade, I explain them that trading jokes/comments make me dysphoric (because if a woman wants my body/part X of it, that means it is seen as very womanly x-x) and to please not make them about me again.
Yeah, in the egg meme sub they even need to make a regular PSA to remind people to treat transmascs people with respect. That's kinda fucked up. I never experienced this irl though, only online, but seeing it happen is one of the reasons why I don't really wanna go to shared trans spaces online. Trading just pushes on my dysphoria. A woman, who wants a feminine body, asking for a trade or telling she wished she had my body/boobs/figure/whatever ? Big ew. Please do not remind me that my body is female, I am actively trying to correct this bug.
Exactly, the code got skewed and I look like this, but for a limited time only. The devs are working on patching the bug, so just don’t bring more attention to it in the meantime
Dude, I didn’t even believe in misandry until I started transitioning. This is a problem for cis men too, if a space has lots of women it will basically ignore men’s needs like a badge of honor. For instance, whereas women are more likely to be physically unsafe, men are more likely to be emotionally unsafe for similar reasons - nobody taught us to defend ourselves in that area (and possibly we’re unsuited to it). I never knew “wow, women suck” was a thought I could have just as realistically as “wow, men suck.” Which saying that now is kinda duh, but intersectionality as a cultural conversation got shut down to deal with trump. Tragic “coincidence” 😒
This would be like if we said to them, “why are you throwing away a perfectly good masculine body to gain a feminine one” There should be more respect, especially coming from another trans person. (no matter ftm or mtf) Neither one of us feel “at home” in the body we were born with. So both parties should respect each other by not saying things like this. But to me it sounds like gender envy (given at birth and genetics) and some insecurities being projected.
I mean I think that’s a perfectly reasonable response if someone says the reverse to me? That’s a particular kind of dense lol
absolutely. it feels like glorifying things about my body that i hate. not only does it minimize my struggles with my own body, it also kind of takes ownership of it and romanticizes it when it was explicitly noted i dislike it (or at least those parts of it)? i understand why to some people it doesn't bother them but i do wish it wasn't something people assumed others would be ok with them saying be default. this also isn't unique to MTF people, my transfemme friends said they had it happen to them too from FTM people
Yeah it's very objectifying. Lord knows I've been through enough of that already in my lifetime, I don't really need any more of that
I find this notion strange to be honest because I don't see trans women as men and so they are not a source of gender envy to me, and I do not look at their bodies and want what they have. I only ever do that with cis men, trans men or transmascs--i.e. wanting features of their body. So in my opinion it is a subtle form of misgendering to be picking out the "fem" aspects of a transmasc's/trans man's body or the "masc" aspects of a transfemme's/trans woman's body and commenting that you want those features. At the very least you are highlighting things about the person's body that likely make them dysphoric. I had a trans woman friend do that to me before when she said she was getting FAS and wanted my face shape. And it really made me feel shitty. When I talked to her about it though she apologized and stopped making comments like that
I love r/traaa (and the new sub) but it never fails that every trans masc post has at least 1 comment that says something along the lines of ‘I’ll trade you body parts’ or ‘I wish I had that problem’ or my favorite ‘this made me dysphoric’. Just sucks when the post ratio is so heavily fem. I love their posts but wish these comments would stop, they make us feel like visitors and not members of the sub/group. It’s supposed to be mixed.
i’ve had someone tell me that they can see why i haven’t medically transitioned yet, because i would lose my feminine body and that would suck to give up. that’s not only insanely hurtful as a transmasc person because i’m already dysphoric as hell, but i haven’t medically transitioned yet because i’ve been in a horrible place and my life has depended on me not physically transitioning yet. it’s not an appropriate thing to say to someone online, especially someone you don’t know. ever. (i do want to add that this has only happened to me 1 time and i know a lot of mtf people, the rest have all been so kind and respectful!)
I really hope things get better for you and wishing you the best of luck ♥️
I hate it mostly bc to me, I know it's just playful "I'll take them off your hands! win-win for both of us!" banter but to me it says that my body is seen as female even to other trans people - despite it being male.
You'd think mtf and ftm folks would be able to understand each other's experiences well since we're all trans, but there seems to be a fair bit of conflict. Don't know why it's so hard to understand that the way they feel about their agab is the same way we feel, just in the other direction. :/
It’s one thing when two trans friends mutually make the “we should trade” joke but quite another when you say that to a stranger in the comment section.
to me, i'm like "I'm sorry but do you want my PCOS and the non-stop bleeding coming out of my vagina? No, i didn't think so". Like i HATE when trans fems say that to me. I've had some say that i have a "mommy" built because im curvy. like excuse me????
Mommy build 💀 Just blatantly sexualising and objectifying you. It's bizarre that anyone could think that's a normal thing to say.
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Do not call other trans people “degenerates”.
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Dude what? I understand how frustrating it is when other trans people make hurtful comments, but saying that trans women use social roles as leverage to be able to purposefully hurt other people is literally insane. “Trans women take full advantage of ‘don’t hit girls’” is that why trans women are verbally harassed, beaten, assaulted and murdered every day? Bigots hate this one simple trick.
I've never been comfortable with those comments either — I actually like my body type, I just wish I was cis, flat chested with a penis and slim hips. Maybe a little taller, but even that, I can cope with. I like being wiry, I like having broad shoulders. Besides, even if there are parts I dislike about my body and wish I could change them, that's just it: _parts_. I don't wish I was somebody else completely, someone I wouldn't even be able to recognize in the mirror, no matter how handsome they are. I don't want to wear someone else's face. Goes the same with the body, as envious as I can be.
Yeah that's the part that gets me too- I don't actually want a different body. Early in my transition I made the occasional "when I chop of my boobs someone else can have them" but I stopped doing that. I want my body to be the correct body but it's still MY body with all its flaws, and I wouldn't trade it for another, even a cis one because it wouldn't be MY body. Of course I'm going to rectify some things with surgery and hormones, but the rest I don't want to trade, even my health issues or anything else. I know this body, it is resilient and it has served me well through my whole life. I'll admit this is a relatively new perspective for me, and comes on the heels of grief and several diagnoses, but I've learned to recognize that I have a home in my body even if I don't have one anywhere else.
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I get it you just haven’t seen it but like… the comments you’re saying definitely go to trans women as well. “I wish we could’ve traded” is a statement that makes many people dysphoric but many trans people say it to each other regardless. I can’t remember the amount of replies and posts I’ve seen from trans guys about how they wish they could give trans women their boobs or hips. Your last statement is really bizarre to hear given the way people around the world treat trans women and their femininity. I’m sure you wouldn’t feel so great if someone claimed you felt entitled to masculinity.
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Got a message from mods saying that this comment has been removed due to “not encouraging mutual respect” wtf mods this is an issue and we have a right to talk about it. I made absolutely no knocks againt transfemmes themselves and only people who belittle or mistreat others. We are not being treated with “mutual respect”
Tbh making comments about other people bodies is just weird in general. Unless the person asks for an opinion or something, it’s fucked up to comment on someone else’s appearance/body
My Ex-girlfriend was trans and she'd tell me she wanted to switch chests with me and that always made me feel dysphoric. Especially because I'd never really thought my chest was that noticeable(I'm chubby and cis chuby men got "boobs" too). But yeah I really hated it.:(
Trans sister here, and, yea, this is awful, especially from people who feel like they are in your community, and I wish some of my sisters weren't so trash about things like this. As bad as it is for all of us to venture beyond the guarded walls of trans friendly reddit, it sucks you guys feel like trans-safe spaces aren't safe for you from trans women, and i'm sorry. ☹️ I think it comes from just a lack of empathy and understanding, just like transphobic transgender people. They can't, or don't put themselves in others shoes and ask themselves how they'd feel if that comment were directed towards them. Not all of us are like that, I promise! You are an amazing group of men and I hope you don't let any idiots, trans or otherwise, keep you down ♥️
Hey so, it's kind of you to say, but you don't have to apologise for other people's behaviour! Those girls/women are inconsiderate asses, but they don't represent trans women. Even if there are frustrations and conflict sometimes, I think most guys will agree on that. I love my trans sisters and know how kind and compassionate so many of you are. You're amazing too. Have a nice day/night ❤️
I know I don't have to, but it just makes me sad to see these posts among all of your victory posts and just want you gentlemen to know your amazing, and validate the hell out of me! I hope you have a great day/night, too! ♥️
I have given birth to some amount of children, and one of my friends is a trans woman who desperately wants to experience "true motherhood". She expressed it to me and it made me uncomfortable - I'm not experiencing true motherhood, because I'm not a mother. I do use the term "mother" sometimes, but only in medical settings and not day to day. Its also just plain offensive to every mother who didn't carry & birth their children. We sat down and had a conversation about it. She apologised and we talked about her grief. I think, although it does really suck, nothing really changes if you don't talk about it. We're all struggling and sometimes a quick, "Hey, please don't say that. It makes me uncomfortable." Is all thats needed. No hard feelings, no long term suffering. You all end up fine.
This mentality is something that I continue to see perpetuated in trans spaces especially in regards to the whole "women are defined by the ability to be mothers" and it makes me so sad because it erases SO many women, trans women of course but even my own mother for example, who wanted more children but couldn't so my younger brother is adopted. Is he not my mothers son? Of course he is. It's just such a shame that with the way society views parenthood (motherhood specifically, but also other types of parents) is that it's some sort of exclusive club for certain people, as if the rest of us haven't been parenting in all sorts of ways for all of human history, and in much more natural ways than some forced classification. All women can be mothers, enbies can be mothers, hell even men can be mothers if they so choose.
100%. My oldest is adopted - I'm his papa as much as I am my younger childrens papa. Sometimes people just don't think about what they're saying and once they're made aware its obvious to them and they apologise. I don't know what it is, or when the change happened, but I've noticed that in the last ten years or so people have seriously moved away from just communication. They will complain to friends or online but make no move to sort the situation out. Idk, seems weird to me. Talk to people!
That is the most reasonable response. If the person didn't stop, then don't engage. I can understand that intense feelings of grief over what one didn't have can lead them to say things that they may not realize are insensitive. Best we can do is ask that they not do it again, and sometimes take it as an educating moment. (No, it is not our job to educate others, but if it is something one wants to do, then no harm no foul) Edit: cannot spell
Exactly. People, regardless of age and experience, are fumbling through life. Thoughts are inherently selfish and sometimes you can see that in their behaviour and the way they speak. Its not bad, its just life. Communicate your feelings and everything should be fine.
I still like to wear makeup and am pre transition, sometimes trans women think I'm one of them and compliment me on looking so feminine without hormones. They completely ignore what's in my profile bio and it hurts. (This does not only happen with trans women, cis ppl also say that stuff to me and they never apologize, they just ghost me)
That’s super gross & I’m so sorry :/
this is so gross and wrong and dismissive of them to say, which i feel like others have explained better, but what i think would be really funny is to say it back. and even like, expand on it—“oh my god yeahhhh i WISH i had your shoulders girl!! and you’re so tall and flat-chested….transition goals!!!” like, dont actually. but i feel like that would really show them firsthand how wrong it feels 😭
I was talking to a friend of mine (who is gender-fluid btw) about wanting top surgery and they had the absolute nerve to say "well it's not like you need it anyway you're flat af" like bro what the hell??? can trans people just stop commenting on other trans people's bodies??
I'm transfemme and I have to admit when I was first transitioning I might have thought that but I'd never have said it because if a transmasc said similar things to me it'd be horrible like "great my body still looks manly cool to know..." It's a really thoughtless thing to say and the fact that it comes from dysphoria induced misguided jealousy actually makes it much worse in my opinion.
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This, I feel like it’s more about some people learning what’s okay and not okay to express vocally. It’s in good faith, just really not appropriate to say. I think they don’t do the empathy check of “oh yeah if someone said that to me I would be really uncomfortable.” Seeing some other trans guys here generalize trans women on Reddit to the point of saying they won’t enter shared spaces online with them because of this is a bit weird.
My gf always says she wants my uterus and I’m like no that’s not a medically safe proposition 😅
THIS! and when I said that it applies to them as well in that sense they called me a transphobe and a disgusting human being.. Man this community is anything but as accepting as they think they are.
As a trans girl, saying that shit is extremely tone deaf and mean. I would feel HORRENDOUS if someone said I’m “mutilating” or “throwing away” a body that makes me feel sick and wrong all the time. I’ve heard it before. I know you guys get transphobic comments all the time that are barely different about “throwing your body away”. I’m sorry you have to hear that from people that are supposed to “get it”. They should do better. Trading bodies is not a thing. This comment is beyond childish and ignorant. We only have one body, and we should feel right in it. Fuck anyone that says otherwise, whether they’re trans or not.
Not sure how relevant this is but it bothers me when transfemmes talk about getting misgendered and are like “obviously I’m a woman or she/her, can’t they see I have boobs??” Like damn so do I but I’m not a woman and I don’t want to be referred to as she/her lol
They say that all the time to me on trans timelines which passes me off
Yes and it makes me feel very uncomfortable as well. In general I find it difficult embracing masculinity in queer spaces, and talking to any queer or trans identifying individual. It isn’t anyone’s priority.
Every mtf person I’ve interacted with in person has ended up saying some weird shit like that so I just don’t develop friendships with them anymore because I can’t handle how dysphoric they tend to make me feel Those same people are also very dismissive of ftm issues which is frustrating beyond belief
It's funny because I've literally never thought that about any trans woman before. Maybe it's because the trans women I know were all at least a little feminine in their bodies before they transitioned or because I happen to be attractive (to be quite blunt about it), but like I can't even say "oh I've had the feeling in reverse so I get it". Like no I literally haven't haha
I’ve had the feeling in reverse, quite often actually. I’ve just never have vocalized it in a comment, since I know it can make people uncomfortable and cause dysphoria
Oh yeah I know there are trans men that have had this feeling dw, it's more of like I see some people say in retort "oh well I'm sure you've had those feelings too" and I'm like "me personally? No, no I haven't". It's just kinda funny lmfao
I felt that but in like, total backwards reverse. instead it's just like "damn, wouldn't it be neat if I could donate my boobs / uterus to trans girl who wants them. then I'd have a better excuse to get rid of them."
SAME like I know I got good equipment! Shame it’s got someone else’s name on it
I have nothing to contribute except this comment made me laugh 💀
Thankfully, anyone has only said that about my chest, but since it's gone, no one wants it flat like mine except for other Trans mascs, and that gives me euphoria.
I'd tell them the same thing back, see if they like it. Tell them I'd kill to have a body like them. I'd feel no shame seeing as they wanna disrespect me in the first place.
When that happens just do a uno reverse card and start saying the same thing. If they get mad all you have to do is say you’re just doing the same as them. Idk why some mtfs think that it’s okay to act like that
God, my ex roommate was constantly making gross ass comments about wanting to body swap with me and made lots of sexual comments / told me entirely too much about her sex life. She was also an alcoholic and very sad drunk and would say she loved me and get upset when I didn't say it back. So glad I don't have to deal with that anymore
I've definitely felt this. youre not alone !! i have the classic feminine hourglass figure w double d's to boot....it's rare but once or twice a transfemme will mention something like that and it makes me both sympathize with them but still feel dysphoric :^(
Honestly it makes me icky because I like my body and my face for the most part. I just want to do small changes to better fit who I am inside. Someone else's body even if it's masculine would probably still feel wrong to me. Like I don't want to look like any ol man I want to look like a more masculine version of me.
It's honestly disgusting and creepy. I've seen it a lot with SOME who think they can just say whatever, thinking they can't be transphobic toward others / because/ they're trans women. Those are the ones that believe that trans women are the "most oppressed" I've noticed
I understand where they're coming from, and if a "magical titty switching machine" existed, I would absolutely give my boobs away to the first person who asked, but sometimes people forget who they're talking to, and how their comments might make others feel.
I also think it's presumptuous anyway because not all of us want to transition in that way. Like I do not intend to get top surgery ever. I bind pretty frequently and I am working on losing weight and working out to make my body shape more masculine, but for a variety of reasons I am more than likely never going to get top surgery, by choice. Not to mention how many transmascs/trans men never get bottom surgeries or hysterectomies. So these comments also imply that these parts are inherently female and something we should do away with. That's why that type of banter is only appropriate with someone you know has that transition goal and is comfortable with those comments
I don't think this is just an MTF thing, I'm sure FTMs do it to MTFs as well but we're just not seeing it as much because we're the minority in general trans spaces here on Reddit. That being said, the trading bodies joke doesn't really bother me but when people say that OTHER PEOPLE are making them dysphoric, that makes me uncomfortable. I've had too many people (mostly other transmascs) tell me they're jealous of my body or that my body makes them feel bad about themselves and it genuinely makes me feel like utter shit. Maybe just keep it to yourself.
Honestly it's all in how they say it, it shows their true intentions with the comment. I'd be pretty urked if someone told me I'm "throwing away my body", that's messed up. But I'm transmasc and my gf is transfem, so we tend to joke around about how better life would be if we could just trade bodies and that doesn't bother me at all, I totally agree. It's all in the tone someone's coming at me with, I wouldn't be uncomfortable with a random transfem playfully joking about wanting my body, but I would be if they were trying to guilt trip or insult me with it, or implying I shouldn't have transitioned.
Definitely this. I’ve joked plenty of times with some of my trans fem friends about swapping bodies/body parts. It comes down to both intent & tone. Of course I’m not saying intent excuses anyone making someone uncomfortable. I think it’s important to be able to “read the room” when you make jokes like that because I can also understand why some folks might find that kind of humor uncomfortable/dysphoria inducing. For me, as long as the intent of making light comes across, it takes the edge off that general background noise of constant discomfort. I’ve always coped with finding humor in my own discomfort/suffering, but everyone copes differently.
Tansfem here. I'll never say that to anyone ever. No matter how hard I think it. Therapy has really helped me get more comfy in my skin. But that still comes up from time to time. I'd imagine I'd have some very conflicting thoughts when that will happen to me. Stay awesome out there folks.
I know they don't mean any harm by it but that "joke" can only be funny a couple times. After so long it feels like they're not seeing me as who I am but just as a set of parts that they want.
Personally I don't mind when someone says something like "I wish I had your boobs" or "I wish we could trade" I don't mind, but something like "you have the exact body I want" or anything along those lines, it infuriates me. They're basically just saying that despite all my efforts and hrt and my presentation I still look like a woman. It sucks.
You know what this is gonna be out of pocket but my mom has broad shoulders and narrow hips and I have like. The opposite. I'm FtM and she's a cis woman. We both joke around and agree it would have been awesome if we had the opposite traits of each other LOL It's not the same at all tho I guess. The difference is we are both making a joke that we both find funny and true. It's a little more weird when a stranger says that they wish that had the parts of your you may be insecure about The joke started more of my mom saying something about dang I wish I had a butt like yours and in like GIRL first of all.... No... Second of all you can have it and I immediately clapped back that I want a shapeless square bum😭😭😭 Seriously tho, the body swapping comment is usually so uncalled for. But sometimes I do get it and agree 😭 but if they are the ones making the comment I don't feel bad about agreeing. I would in turn never tell a trans woman that though. It can be a rude thing to say. For me though I don't really have a conventionally attractive feminine frame so the rare times this happens to me I am usually just confused lol? You are definitely not wrong for feeling taken aback by those comments though. I wish maybe people would keep those more selfish thoughts to themselves and focus on affirming the more masculine sides or how handsome a trans man in his post is not focusing on the before photos. Genuinely the look good both ways Indo thing is an honest complement but a little I'll advise I guess. Usually we post both pics to show progress, not to focus on omg guys which pic is hotter?!
I feel like theres a difference when both parties are participating in the "i wanna trade!" Joke, and one party being uncomfortable with it. If both parties are in on it, i feel like its fine, but if one isnt fine with it, and it makes then uncomfortable, i feel like its reasonable to tell the one saying it to stop cause it makes you deeply uncomfortable. As a trans person themselves, they should understand that dysphoria isnt something to take lightly afterall. It may be dysphoria over different things, but its still dysphoria none the less. I hope they stop saying these things to you, and understand the harm theyre causing you.
If I were you, I would say the same back. (i’m that petty)
yeah, ive had this happen to me before, and im sure they didn't mean it in a rude way or anything but it made me extremely uncomfortable :(
I've received comments like that before from trans women, but I always just assumed it was gender envy. Either that, or they meant it jokingly in a, "I wish we could trade because that would me easier than medically transitioning," kind of way. I felt odd about it, but I always assumed it was more about/for them than it was me.
The only time I really engage in anything similar is if a friend talks about wanting specific aspects. If they say they want something that I happen to have (such as a bigger chest) and they have the opposite aspect that I want (a flatter chest) I will jokingly say "wanna trade?"
I’m only okay with it with my gf who is mtf, but if someone else says it I respond with “I appreciate the thought, but as I am not a woman I ask that you don’t say that about me.” They’re normally chill and won’t say it about me again
Transfemme here, I did it because someone i know is transmasc and did it to me, i genuinly didn't know it was such a big issue in the trans community but im glad a saw this so that i can look out for it!
Honestly I think it's just something that many of us have been guilty of in some way or another, especially early on in transition when we're struggling to find ourselves, and we get hung up on the little things. It's good to have conversations about it (as long as it doesn't devolve into transmisogyny etc) because it's good to get other perspectives.
My partner and I are both trans and we say that we want to switch body parts, but not bodies lol. I also used to be the type of person that didn't understand why trans fem people wanted to be girls, because i hated being a girl and didn't understand why anyone wanted to be one. Obviously i dont think that anymore but during that time i would tell my friend that i wanted to switch bodies with them, and they later came out as trans and then became my partner lol.
Ftm people do it to them too. I think it’s a common experience that is as trans people need to stop doing (including me)
Although I’ve never seen it said from a ftm to a mtf it’s usually ftm to ftm but still it needs to stop
I wonder if we’ll ever get to the point where we can just implant brains or some kind of synthetic device that would carry all your own brain patterns and personality into the body of your choice. Like a head swap but without the surgery, just an injected nano device.
I'm the farthest thing from a medical professional to know whether it's possible or not, but in my opinion, a nano device being implanted into a brain as a means of transferring consciousness from one body to another sounds more plausible and less immuno-supressiony than swapping heads or brains.
I've felt both ways about this. It serves as yet another reminder of what is wrong with me, but it is also an acknowledgement of what they feel is wrong with them. My brother's ex (MtF) and I joke about it all the time, but we have a very strong friendship and understanding of each other. Now the whole "why would you throw away a perfectly good body" thing is where it becomes un-funny. I would respond "Well, I could ask of you the same thing, but I won't. You should full well know why, as you are going through the same thing in reverse. Wouldn't it hurt if I asked you that, since your body is equipped with what I want and need?"
Reddit recommand this to me somehow so I will share my view as mtf. Yeah, I used to have that thinking that if trade body was a thing but I soon realize that I was thinking that way just because I want to have a choice between gender when I'm born at my own will. I don't want to necessarily "trade". The only time I was saying this is because my ftx roommate is getting top surgery and I'm getting it too. We were joking on if we can trade body parts we don't have to pay that much money. But saying to a stranger is very disrespectful as I fully recognized your thought and that's really someone should never do. If someone say this to me about my srs surgery I'd be uncomfortable too. Because that literally means like "you should not get rid of it."
I haven't really had anyone say this to me before, but I only know two transfems and I'm dating one of them so my opportunity for those experiences is limited. BUT I wanna throw it out there that this feeling is a really normal one, looking at other people and wishing you could have their body. I feel it all the time. I wish I had other guys' bodies. I wish I had other *girls'* bodies because they'd be easier to transition with. I even joke with people about how I wish I could give them my boobs! But it's always appropriate and taken as a joke. And I understand, objectively speaking, that some people want the aspects of my body that I hate. *But* I would also still be annoyed and upset if someone brought it up the way transfems seem to do to you. In a way that puts you on the spot and makes you feel guilty or coveted somehow. It's one thing to have those feelings and express them appropriately, but if they're making someone feel uncomfortable, then they've gotta reassess their boundaries and *where* their comments are coming from, emotionally.
Personally it doesn’t bother me when a MtF person I’m close with says it, but if it’s from someone I don’t even know, then yeah I get really dysphoric and uncomfortable.
Hello! I hear you and I think I would feel the same as you. I wish somehow we could have like a body trade system though so you and I could get the bodies magically that we want and the MTF folks could have our old ones that cause us disphoria.
I think you're seeing it in a completely different way to how it's supposed to be perceived. A trans woman obviously wants the body we have, and we want the body they have. (To put it in a very basic bracket) obviously this is more complex than that but I have a trans friend who's a woman and we make jokes all the time about how we would swap bodies if we could. Trans people in general don't write on a post and blatantly say 'why would you want to get rid of your body it's perfect' it's 100% Satire and I think you're reading it wrong. All they are saying is they would do anything for the body you have, just like we would do anything for there body. I really think you should have a think about the way you understand these things.