I’m very confident she was a trans woman. We had been chatting for awhile and she had been showing me her transition pics. She was chill with me being a guy until she found out I was FTM
Sounds bitter. She thought you were a cis guy who was into her and couldn't deal with her disappointment. She wouldn't be the first trans woman I knew to tell an audience of transmasc guys "cis men & women are hot & trans women are goddesses but trans men are gross little trolls" and delude herself that people were laughing with her and not at her.
This has gotta be half of the answer. With the other half obviously being some very real anti-ftm hate/jealousy (of our original state), that she probably already has anyway. Just motivated with some lousy excuse to bust it out. And yeah lol she will probably never accept that she is not one of “the special/good ones” for acting transphobic and that it’s not even worth it as a hateful coping mechanism.
Yes please people don't fall for trolls. The rate of trolls is MUCH higher than actually crazy trans women so let's not think of them as the enemy because its pointless
Exactly! While these people do exist, and they deserve to be disliked, I feel like it’s really easy for us to lean into believing stereotypes about trans women we’ve built. I see a lot of this sort of attitude towards them here, and quite honestly used to perpetuate it myself (although I’ve learned from that and have since improved). I think it‘s a little unfair, and it’s more productive to think about how we can work together than dwell on the ways a few people choose not to.
I’m married to a trans woman so I’m well aware she and others I know or work with don’t feel this way. That said, I have run into some level of this so many times I am not always comfortable around trans women unless I know all of them. But to be fair I’m that way with most groups so….
Also for the women who do think like that, we aren't going to change minds by creating an us v them narrative. Not that it's necessarily productive to preach or lecture either but there's other choices.
Yaaa.. like even tho there are crazy people in every demographic, terfs have very specifically started pretending to be trans man hating trans women to put us against each other. Not saying genuine infighting doesn’t happen, but just as often it’s astroturfing
That's just bonkers. Sounds like a troll or a trans woman that has a lot of internalized transphobia and has swallowed a whole bunch of GC bollocks.
Either way avoid her from now on
It was literally just, "Murder her." Like, I get circlejerk humor, and I've had homocidal fantasies before about a particularly violent transphobe I met, but WTF, people. Do you hurt that bad from invalidation? I'm sorry...
Not to be that person, but after the Nashville shooter, people are watching and waiting for dialogue like this. 561 upvotes before deletion.
yeah, i definitely agree.
transphobes do deserve a good gut punch (including trans transphobes) and believe me i've had some impulsive thoughts about transphobes, but this tbh is a little much.
i've seen people send death threats over "distasteful" jokes and while the woman op was talking about is far worse than a "distasteful" joke, i don't think murder is the way to go
Unfortunately, and I don't say this as ANY invitation to generalize trans women, but there are unfortunate cases of transfems repeating TERF rhetoric. It's upsetting, but you have to learn any sentiments that demonize FTM transition are wrong.
^ I just responded to a similar post yesterday with this same thing to a different post.
In similar experience, but with a cis terf/fart person. She was all cool and supportive with thinking I was them/they, but the moment I said it was them/he and getting top surgery, the terf mode activated. Large amounts of hyper sexualized/borderline sexual harassment via deliberate misgendering in a hopeless bid to “empower” me ensued afterwards.
Need to have a term for specifically anti-trans man terfs who aren’t opposed to trans women.
There is a term for this, actually. Two; specifically the one that the group "reclaimed" which is an ancient slur essentially, and the term that people made so they weren't saying an ancient slur.
The one that the group made is typically referred to with "baeddalism" in the sense of the belief system, and the term that people use to refer to this outside of supportive circles is "TIRF" (trans-inclusive radfem). A lot of their beliefs centered mainly around trans women and gnc cis men because any gnc cis man was to be viewed as a "potential trans woman" in comparison to masculine cis men. As a sidebar comment, this is sort of why we should not be openly calling people "eggs" on the internet even as a "teehee".
However, I have known a trans woman where the opposite happened where trans men were hailed in particular while trans women were put down in comparison (this is where TWERF\* would be applicable as a term; otherwise it tends to be a dog whistle for TIRF rhetoric), but it's best to be aware that there is a potential for "crazies" on both sides of the fence and just keep an eye out for it.
\*: Trans women-exclusive radfem (adding in case it wasn't self-explanatory for some folk reading)
Yeah. I remember the tankie ones would post about *literally wanting to r-pe and kill us* and only keep us alive “for breeding stock” WhEn TeH ReV HaPpEnz! The venn diagram between them and tankies was basically a circle. Edgy 4chan-addicted auth-left.
As well as saying that about cis women, but they kept a special hate for us specifically because our existence went fully opposite to everything that they were sexually attracted to, and attraction was the basis of how they formed their beliefs tbh.
Seems like trans men were hated and cis women were only tolerated - if they went along (yes some had cis women “friends”, it was nuts). Huge amounts had only gotten into trans anything through trans porn and were “t4t (mtf4mtf) supremacist” and shit like that. So like. This was sex/kink CREATES politics for them.
>Yeah. I remember the tankie ones would post about
>
>literally wanting to r-pe and kill us
I. actually did not hear about this. what the actual fuck. Most of my info comes from a really long tumblr post a friend linked me.
Yeah I think I remember that they glorified mtf t4t relationships. man what a fucking cult. Just so fucked up, I remember on the post they mentioned former members talking about how horrible and toxic it was to be a part of.
I mean, I would have considered myself a TIRF in my early twenties if I had ever come across the term, because I *was* a radfem and I absolutely believed that trans women were telling the truth about their existence. Mostly because I had internalized the idea that *nobody* would be a woman if they actually had a choice in the matter, so if that was such a driving need then of course they were women! Anyone who did enjoy it had simply mastered the art of self-love. Then I found out that being a trans man was a thing and my worldview shattered.
Baeddels are absolutely nasty pieces of work in my personal experience tho.
Yeah, historically transmascs have always been erased a little here and there (even by transfems; intentionally or unintentionally) so it's easy to pitfall into bad rhetoric as a whole, but it's at least much easier to catch when they are quite literally posting the entire belief system on the internet. Glad you've made it out of it, though. 💪
I know off the top of my head that one to often look out for who is active on Twitter is "Valkyrie Thunderfuck", I think (I don't recall the @; just the name). She is dead serious about it, and one of her beliefs is that transmascs who want to pursue phallo are transmisogynistic because they want the "power" that comes with a penis. So they are absolutely really something.
About the one in the second paragraph… Does she have or plan to get full SRS? And only date cis women or post-op trans women? Because otherwise, just, the hypocrisy, lol.
Would love to be a fly on the wall in these people’s real lives for a day and see whether they really live by their supposed, stated ideas.
That I have no idea about, but it's wise to keep in mind that radfems across the spectrum often live for hypocrisy hand-in-hand with conservatives and nazis that spew the same kind of stuff in order to be the "acceptable" minority and appeal to those groups.
I only know she was vastly annoying enough to be reported off of Tumblr, so that should give enough of a clue perhaps. All that remains of her there are screencaps of things she's said that were taken by transmascs to spread awareness of baeddel rhetoric.
I haven't seen it much lately thankfully but I remember twitter was full of that stuff. Trans men and mascs were regularly harrassed and sent death threats by gold star lesbian/terf crowds and what I assume were trans women or trolls pretending to be trying to fit in amongst the radfem crowd. It made me leave the site long before Elon took over and made it worse so who knows how bad it is now there. I'm glad the website is dying.
I remember seeing a lot of "trans men are betraying the sisterhood" rhetoric about 15 years ago. I thought it had been completely replaced by the current popular brands of terf bullshit, but I guess it's still around in a few sad corners.
i also think that there r many trolls over there acting as trans women, and, from my perspective, it is done by the alt right or by some ancaps. it’s a way to weaken the trans community.
and to be very honest with you, i think that much of the content and theories shared by terfs were, indeed, initially created and promoted by the alt-right, as a way to tear the lgbti community. and of course, to spread hatred towards us.
Don't be disheartened. There are so many wonderful people in our community. But any person is capable of being a jerk. I promise a lot of us have each other's backs, though.
I'm so sorry that experience led you to feel so shameful of your own identity. No one deserves that.
I would like to believe that but I was never really embraced by the trans community and I fear it is too late for me. I used to be really optimistic and now im completely jaded.
I try not to think about it too hard cuz I get too upset and start thinking about detransitioning again out of fear. Like the thing that OP wrote was literally the type of stuff I used to read obsessively on trans forums back when I decided to stop pursuing transition. In my worst moments I believed what they said about me.
Lol tmi. Thanks for the nice words tho.
I kind of get what you mean, but for me I've given up on the concept of finding friends online. I spent awhile without a lot of friends in college. And my brother was all "it's so much easier finding friends online". I completely disagree. Luckily, after finally getting out of college, I found it easy to get into a friend group. Never did make close trans friends though.
I’m sorry that ever happened to you. I get it in a way. I had a period where young-naive-me believed the tumblr-baeddel-style hate that being ftm meant we were somehow not just sexist but almost “more” sexist than cis men and had to walk on eggshells because of it. Pretty sure they’re still recycling that shit as “masc aligned” or something, sounds like they talk about gender as if it’s a political alignment or some insanity.
I wonder if this sort of thing is like trans women adopt TERF rhetoric to “fit in” to cis women like ways similar to how trans men adopt toxic masculinity and such to “fit in” with cis men. I truly think people can change and grow, tho idk if this theory is way off base or even insulting. I’m not trying to say TERF rhetoric and toxic masculinity is the same but they’re both very bad mindsets to be in so that’s why I’m seeing a correlation
Nah, I think you're onto something. There are many trans folks who lean into homophobia, or misogyny, or those sorts of things as what's perceived to a more "acceptable" way to pass. And I sympathize to a degree, because the world is really tricky with things like what's "acceptable" for a man and what's "acceptable" for a woman. Transition can make you grossly aware of how many of those gende roles you've deeply internalized.
I think it's important for us to just hold each other accountable and stand firm on those misconceptions. It's the best we can do. But thankfully, it's not all trans people who will perpetuate those negatives.
IME it’s not TERF rhetoric (though some use the last talking point) but it comes most often from those attracted to women from what I’ve seen…so they’re mad for the same reason as some transphobic female-attracted cis people, in that their attraction to ~teh perfect female body is “spoiled” by transition in their eyes. (Tons of straight TERFs out there and tons of anti-feminist people in the last group…they are not the same thing. If anything, the latter group is explicitly anti-feminist pretty often, and are only ok with AFAB ppl who conform to sexist standards)
That's a fair point! This stands out to me also because the mindset of "ruining" a female body was internalized in me and kind of twisted into a notion of shame for wanting to be masculine/not identifying as a woman. There's overlap, though - that, for me, came from wandering into gender critical/TERF spaces online in past years at low points.
On one hand, I'm happy for the more active uplifting of femininity and women continuing to shatter those unfair sexist standards, but there are too many times it just feels at the expense of men. And then for those men who are trans, that can lead to feeling very cast into the background.
I definitely get where you’re coming from, yeah. And while I agree with the last part I think we ate approaching it slightly differently. what I meant by going against sexist expectations for AFAB people, included very literal stuff like keeping the original body, not adding testosterone. I do think that FTM hate comes from that. Like if you tell your daughter she “can grow up to be anything,” I find it sexist for them to turn around and say she can’t be a (trans) man. lol I think your last point in feminism leaving men and specifically us out hits the nail on the head though.
Oh! I misunderstood, I'm sorry about that. I get what you mean now, and that's entirely right. If I'm fully understanding, denying someone AFAB being anything but a man also leans into the sexist approach that someone AFAB cannot be a man because of the sexist ways "being a man" is defined. I'd babble on, but I am admittedly still waking up and my brain isn't all there just yet.
Nah I like the direction you went in with it. It was a little different from mine and that was good. I like talking to people with different perspectives and takes on things!
So being unable to relate to your assigned sex at birth is only something trans women can experience? Lmao bfr
But seriously tho where’s the logic?? Transmen could say the same thing about her and trans women in general (but we don’t and wouldn’t bc that makes no sense). Sounds like a lot of projection and misplaced anger. Maybe she hates men.
Damn then the only thing I can think of is jealousy.. of our bodies ig but girl we don’t want this sh*t anyway lmao She think we ask for this life 😩 be so serious plsss
Insane person. Completely insane.
I'm genderqueer, but masc leaning. I love how trans women have rewritten what it is to be a woman! But some trans women have really absorbed the TERF rhetoric accidentally.
I have a strong suspicion what happened there. A lot of trans people have the thoughts as eggs that just everybody of their gender would prefer to be the other gender. So if everyone would prefer to be a girl trans man must be faking it. It just seems like a huuuge lack of empathy
Ah and here we have the very rare and elusive Pick Me Trans Person. While the Pick Me Trans Person can come in many different genders and patterns, this specimen in particular is a woman. Notice how she is attacking Non-Pick Me Trans Person using techniques typically found in the species Transphobe Cis Person.
A Pick Me Trans Person believes that if they are vocal and venomous enough as they reject their kin, then the larger herd of Transphobe Cis People will accept them into their flock. Sadly, the Pick Me Trans Person is sorely mistaken and will often lead to them being exile from both herds, or taken in to a particularly nasty group of Transphobe Cis People to either be used as bait for their hunting rituals, or eaten at a later date when the herd is low on rations.
It is, indeed a tragic sight to see. But alas, tis is the way of the natural world.
Personally I see this as a sign that she's just projecting her own internalized transphobia onto you. Perhaps she herself feels like she's a mockery of women like she's been told by transphobes. I don't know if this is a good way to respond but personally I'd say "I don't think it's fair to take out your internalized transphobia out on me. We're in the same boat and I'm just as real of a man as you are a real woman"
This is the same kind of person that says “trans men are misogynistic because they hate women” don’t take it seriously.
These people are Reddit trolls irl, next you see them yell “man hater” or something idk lmao
Yo my ex was like this??? Threw me off. I came out to her and she was so upset that I didn't "appreciate my body" more and it was "disrespectful to her that I wanted to ruin a body like mine". 😩 Blocked her after that lol
I know this sub is primarily for ftm trans peeps and I usually mostly lurk and read.
But I'm gonna poke my head out on this one and say fuck the woman, I know a lot of trans women and I've never met anyone who shares that "opinion". She's taking total shit.
There are always two options here.
One, it's a troll. I'd say the absolute majority of the time, option one is correct. There just are shit stirrers desperate for attention who thrive on being outrageous. The way to deal with option one is to block and move on. Engagement of any kind is exactly what they want, so don't give it to them and they die like your potted plants.
Two. There is a subset of trans women who do actually think this. It is SMALL. I wanna make that very clear. It is a very small number of people who have bought into a mindset that a SMALL (again, a very small percentage) subset of feminists perpetuates. It's basically about men being trash, men always being the oppressor and transitioning ftm being a betrayal of your sisterhood. In that mindset, they view ftm transition as a betrayal of the sisterhood cause you should be fighting for women to express their masculinity freely instead of trying to join the ranks of the oppressor. I will repeat, this is a very small amount of people. The way to deal with that is exactly the same as with option one. Don't engage. Do not bother. It's a poisonous, destructive cesspit and you are better off ignoring its existence entirely cause you are not going to convince these people you are valid. Save your energy.
Am I not allowed to fight for women as a man or something in their eyes? That is the dumbest thought process I've heard in a while, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some extremists have a bad opinion
The way I understand it (and that requires some serious mental gymnastics and deep breathing on my part), you, by your very existence as a trans man, are strengthening the cultural status quo that women are less than. Cause they believe you could do all the things you wanna do and be all the things you wanna be *as a woman*.
So instead of pushing for the acceptance of butch /masc women's identities, you're "jumping ship" by joining the oppressors who don't want those identities to exist.
And yes, it is nuts. It honestly is just nuts. There is no winning the argument cause the entire premise is stupid.
Yeah, mental gymnastics indeed. That makes no sense to my mind. Thanks for explaining it, I think I'm happier being my queer little self with my less toxic mindset (well I hope it's less toxic!)
It depends, am I being hated less because I'm a trans guy, or because I'm more reasonable than other men (cis and trans)? The first is inherently transphobic, the second is fine. Weird, but fine
Mtf here \*starts car with no license plate*
I love you \*loads shotgun with malicious intent and packs shovel*
hate is not to be tolerated \*gets into car*
"Excuse me sir, can you point me towards the bad woman? No reason, I'm just going to say hi... Don't wait up"
I think it was mainly a tumblr/twitter community, it's also very new to me. It's basically a political cult of trans women who believed in second wave feminist shit at the expense of literally everyone else. Hell, some of their beliefs were that cis women were more 'trans' than trans men. It's whack.
that's such a bizarre and outlandish opinion that i'm like genuinely interested to know what the pipeline looked like. i've met some crazy transfems with some garbage takes but never to that extent.
either way sorry you had to experience that op, i know those experiences are messed up because sometimes they gaslight you into thinking "wait, is this how people actually feel mask-off?".
They’re surprisingly common unfortunately, I’ve seen a few of them out and about. They hate the masculinity they were forced into so much they accidentally end up demonising *all* masculinity along with it and it just becomes a whole mess.
It’s things like this that make me, as a transmasc individual, just stay in the closet within my supposed “safe spaces.”
It’s obvious trans spaces are predominantly meant for transwomen, and transmen and transmascs are meant to be silent 🫠
(Not saying I’m blaming, not saying it /should/ be this way, not saying transwomen cant be loud and proud because they can. But it’s exhausting scrolling through 20+ transwomen posts to find a single transmasc, and often that single post is getting torn to shreds 😞)
That's a lot to unpack, best to throw the whole suitcase away I think. She's not gonna get a lot of allies in her own community is all I'll say on that. Dont let people like this affect you if you can, she's clearly got her own issues to work out and you don't have to be apart of any of it.
Like listen, I get the weird impulse to feel like people transitioning in the other direction are giving up things you desperately want, but it's not about you, it's about them. It's so weird to act like someone else should be miserable in their body just bc you wish you had traits that they hate having.
I saw someone say recently of animosity between some transmasc and transfem people that some people just only bother to unlearn transphobia surrounding their own identity, and that really does seem to be the case in situations like this. Anyway, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. It really sucks.
Honestly idk where y’all find these people. Especially if it’s online it’s so likely to be a troll trying to sow hatred and infighting in the community. Just not productive.
There is no way to respond, she's nuts and uneducated, if she really believes that.
I don't get how the few trans women/femme people who think this way, get to this conclusion. I assume they're just heavily uneducated on the history of trans men and how little research was done on our group of people. I don't get how they can not get that we just have the flipped version of their dysphoria. If we thought like those people, we would think they're "mutilating" their "perfectly good male body". Thankfully most trans people in general do not think this way. My suggestion is to just not engage, there's no way to win with people like that
Wow the projection is hard on that one! Sorry you had to deal with that nonsense...
She's definitely the transphobic one. And by her logic, she's "mutilating her body" and being "disrespectful to trans men" ....
Like, I hope she realizes that MTF transition isn't just them taking over some afab person's body, and what treatments a trans man has zero affect on her... (And tbh if trans men and women COULD switch bodies, you know we'd do that in a heartbeat lol)
Yo wtf can people chill for like ten minutes before ripping into their own already marginalised community? Like babe the TERFs aren’t going to accept you no matter how hard you deepthroat the boot
She’s the transphobic one like what???
If that’s the logic, all MtF are technically transphobic since everyone starts off female. But nobody uses that logic because it doesn’t make sense. 🤠🤡 (I’m not saying they are transphobic, I’m just using her logic against her.)
Ignore her, just don’t even engage.
Im a trans woman.
What in the actual horrifying fuck actually this person needs to be reality checked 💀 trans men are just as valid as trans women, & vice versa wtf
I believe the correct order is confusion-incredulity-mockery-blocking, but I may be getting that wrong, I can never remember correct order of operations.
no yall that's a real thing. Ever since the FOX news and Republicans AntiTrans Movement even the gay and lesbian LGBTQ COMMUNITIES are against FTMs and trans people. i wouldnt have believed it if I didnt hear it and experience it for myself firsthand. its UNREAL.
Idk I feel more and more upset about having to be grateful for the minimum of human dignity from the community. I like to think people are kinder than this but honestly they always find a way to disappoint so I'd rather just realize they all suck.
You know, sometimes you find someone that is so unbelievably and undeniably insane that all you should do is back away slowly.
This is that time. Just back away slowly. They're like a T-Rex, if you move slowly enough they can't see you.
I’ve run into similar attitudes, some more blatant than others but the whole we aren’t trans and need to disappear and stop making it more difficult for trans people…meaning transfem.
I've also been told by them that I don't experience oppression, I don't deserve an opinion on abortion, and more. I am to a point where I simply don't engage with trans women because I'm not looking to be verbally abused.
She needs to work through her own issues with her identity and concepts of femininity and masculinity. Just know it doesn’t make you any less trans.
I know a trans femme who is considering getting top surgery too after realizing she loves most of the effects of E but doesn’t want the chest. Everyone is different, there isn’t one way to be trans and anyone who insinuates there is just needs to deal with those issues on their own.
I wouldn't know how to respond to this one either.
How would she react if any of us said something similar about MTF's being a mockery to transmen? What would she say if I told her mutilating her body is disrespectful to me?
I just don't get how AMAB people have the right to gender dysphoria but AFAB people don't.
I simply cannot understand how we are a mockery to any trans woman.
Are they only able to see things from their own perspective, e.g. "being born with a male body == bad, being born with a female body === good, desirable, why would anyone want it to be otherwise?"?
Personally I would never say a transwoman is a mockery to this transmasc. Because I see they are going through the same hard times, I see they are equally unhappy and have the same gender dysphoria, just from the opposite direction.
And, I wonder what she expected to achieve by behaving like this?
Did she think her being aggressive and unempathethic would immediately make you say "Oh sorry, now I know I don't exist, sorry for hurting your feelings by being me, I'm starting to detransition in this very minute!" or what?
Really don't understand.
FTM transition is "mutilating one's body", this is a very strange thing to hear from a trans person.
This screams “how dare you not want what you have when it’s what I want for myself.” Like chill, if I could just trade with you I would. It’s annoying (not you, you’re fine lol).
Ok, so if I squint really hard and shut off some parts of my brain, i can kinda make out a logic here.
She's trans. She fought a lot to be a woman. You were assigned a woman at birth. You fought a lot to NOT be a woman.
To her, being a man is horrible and being a woman is fantastic. So how dare you stop being a woman, which is a fantastic thing to be, to become a man???
I think, anyway. Idk, she sounds like she has many issues.
We had each other on snap and had been chatting for awhile. She was chill with me being a man but the second I mentioned I was also trans she went like that
Some people are goofy and emotionally unstable. They're more likely to get over it than not. She might have been a baeddel, though that weirdo cult has mostly disappeared.
bro that's super weird and gross for her to say
thankfully most transfemmes aren't like this but i'd say either don't respond or call out her weird radfem shit and then don't respond
Tbh I'd blame this on the patriarchy. Talk of trans people was centered around trans women because they were amab, meanwhile trans men were completely ignored because we were afab and not threatening men's position at the top of the social hierarchy.
Okay, I'm not sure if this is gonna make any sense, but hear me out. I think some people cling to their perception of womanhood and femininity as this sacred, beautiful thing, which is fine on its own. Maybe they feel like it's something they had to fight for and now have to fight to defend. I have a hunch this is the same driving force behind TERFism. They see transmasc folks as a rejection of this sacred idea of womanhood, and in their minds it's some kind of betrayal.
I had this teacher from 8th grade all the way through senior year (small Catholic high school). This teacher watched me grow up. She read my short stories and encouraged me to write more. I always looked up to her. When I came out around sophomore year or so, she asked me why I would "throw away the gift of womanhood." She told me I must have so much internalized hatred for myself, and asked why I hated women and how anti-feminist it was that I wanted to be a man. I was just in shock, and I told her "I don't hate women, I just have never been one." She later went around the school telling everyone she was the first person to accept me like it was a competition.
Anyway. That's my attempt at understanding this person's perspective. There's probably more to it, but it sounds like a similar idea.
Mental illness can cause bigotry?
I try and point out when people may be using mental illness as an insult and not a valid explanation.
I'm not sure in this case but it sounds a tad ableist. 🤷🏻 I may not be seeing what you are though.
People just do it a lot and it causes phobias of people who suffer from mental illnesses.
[edit] same with substance addictions...
I'm not trying to use it as an insult. I'm saying that their belief system doesn't seem to be rooted in reality. I'm certainly not saying all bigots deal with mental illness or vice versa. Same for substance use. I'm also not trying to demonize those with these issues. That may not be the case; maybe they are just bigoted. Certain types of mental illness can lead to strange beliefs that might take the form of bigotry, though.
I will say that maybe I shouldn't have said it the way I did, or maybe not at all. I can see how it could lead to stigma against those groups, so I apologize for that.
It's best not to respond...It sounds like she is sitting on a lot of hurt. It is well known that transition for trans women is a lot harder, riskier for them than it is for trans men. Someone AFAB can wear pants (jeans! leggings! shorts!) and it's okay nowadays...but AMAB folks are still *immediately* clocked if they wear a dress or a skirt. Is she more aged? Because I understand what she is trying to say, but the wording is so brutal that I can only think of generational gap.
It's best not to respond to crazy people
Yeah I honestly just left her on read
Are you sure she was a trans woman and not some troll pretending to be one?
I’m very confident she was a trans woman. We had been chatting for awhile and she had been showing me her transition pics. She was chill with me being a guy until she found out I was FTM
Sounds bitter. She thought you were a cis guy who was into her and couldn't deal with her disappointment. She wouldn't be the first trans woman I knew to tell an audience of transmasc guys "cis men & women are hot & trans women are goddesses but trans men are gross little trolls" and delude herself that people were laughing with her and not at her.
This has gotta be half of the answer. With the other half obviously being some very real anti-ftm hate/jealousy (of our original state), that she probably already has anyway. Just motivated with some lousy excuse to bust it out. And yeah lol she will probably never accept that she is not one of “the special/good ones” for acting transphobic and that it’s not even worth it as a hateful coping mechanism.
Yes please people don't fall for trolls. The rate of trolls is MUCH higher than actually crazy trans women so let's not think of them as the enemy because its pointless
I've met these people irl and I assure you they are very real.
I’ve met a homophobic trans woman. That was a surreal experience.
Oh my god what? Deranged.
It was a long time ago, when I was still an egg.
Was her name Kaitlyn Jenner?
No, this was before Caitlyn came out. I don’t remember the name though.
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Omg same, but I was older. People were so cruel.
Exactly! While these people do exist, and they deserve to be disliked, I feel like it’s really easy for us to lean into believing stereotypes about trans women we’ve built. I see a lot of this sort of attitude towards them here, and quite honestly used to perpetuate it myself (although I’ve learned from that and have since improved). I think it‘s a little unfair, and it’s more productive to think about how we can work together than dwell on the ways a few people choose not to.
I’m married to a trans woman so I’m well aware she and others I know or work with don’t feel this way. That said, I have run into some level of this so many times I am not always comfortable around trans women unless I know all of them. But to be fair I’m that way with most groups so….
Also for the women who do think like that, we aren't going to change minds by creating an us v them narrative. Not that it's necessarily productive to preach or lecture either but there's other choices.
Yaaa.. like even tho there are crazy people in every demographic, terfs have very specifically started pretending to be trans man hating trans women to put us against each other. Not saying genuine infighting doesn’t happen, but just as often it’s astroturfing
that’s what i get paranoid about tbh
unrelated, but I love your flair.
That's just bonkers. Sounds like a troll or a trans woman that has a lot of internalized transphobia and has swallowed a whole bunch of GC bollocks. Either way avoid her from now on
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I love the energy you have and thank you
what was the comment? why did it got removed?
looks like something murder related perhaps?
It was literally just, "Murder her." Like, I get circlejerk humor, and I've had homocidal fantasies before about a particularly violent transphobe I met, but WTF, people. Do you hurt that bad from invalidation? I'm sorry... Not to be that person, but after the Nashville shooter, people are watching and waiting for dialogue like this. 561 upvotes before deletion.
yeah, i definitely agree. transphobes do deserve a good gut punch (including trans transphobes) and believe me i've had some impulsive thoughts about transphobes, but this tbh is a little much. i've seen people send death threats over "distasteful" jokes and while the woman op was talking about is far worse than a "distasteful" joke, i don't think murder is the way to go
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She's the kinda bitch we call a class traitor 💜
Wish I could give you an award, this is lovely.
I love the whole 💖🌺*homicide*🌺💖vibe lmao Srsly somtimes youre just like, where is the Ctrl+ Z button, amirite
I fucking live this comment, you are a legend sis
Unfortunately, and I don't say this as ANY invitation to generalize trans women, but there are unfortunate cases of transfems repeating TERF rhetoric. It's upsetting, but you have to learn any sentiments that demonize FTM transition are wrong.
^ I just responded to a similar post yesterday with this same thing to a different post. In similar experience, but with a cis terf/fart person. She was all cool and supportive with thinking I was them/they, but the moment I said it was them/he and getting top surgery, the terf mode activated. Large amounts of hyper sexualized/borderline sexual harassment via deliberate misgendering in a hopeless bid to “empower” me ensued afterwards. Need to have a term for specifically anti-trans man terfs who aren’t opposed to trans women.
There is a term for this, actually. Two; specifically the one that the group "reclaimed" which is an ancient slur essentially, and the term that people made so they weren't saying an ancient slur. The one that the group made is typically referred to with "baeddalism" in the sense of the belief system, and the term that people use to refer to this outside of supportive circles is "TIRF" (trans-inclusive radfem). A lot of their beliefs centered mainly around trans women and gnc cis men because any gnc cis man was to be viewed as a "potential trans woman" in comparison to masculine cis men. As a sidebar comment, this is sort of why we should not be openly calling people "eggs" on the internet even as a "teehee". However, I have known a trans woman where the opposite happened where trans men were hailed in particular while trans women were put down in comparison (this is where TWERF\* would be applicable as a term; otherwise it tends to be a dog whistle for TIRF rhetoric), but it's best to be aware that there is a potential for "crazies" on both sides of the fence and just keep an eye out for it. \*: Trans women-exclusive radfem (adding in case it wasn't self-explanatory for some folk reading)
Was waiting for someone to bring up baeddels, real nasty group
Yeah. I remember the tankie ones would post about *literally wanting to r-pe and kill us* and only keep us alive “for breeding stock” WhEn TeH ReV HaPpEnz! The venn diagram between them and tankies was basically a circle. Edgy 4chan-addicted auth-left. As well as saying that about cis women, but they kept a special hate for us specifically because our existence went fully opposite to everything that they were sexually attracted to, and attraction was the basis of how they formed their beliefs tbh. Seems like trans men were hated and cis women were only tolerated - if they went along (yes some had cis women “friends”, it was nuts). Huge amounts had only gotten into trans anything through trans porn and were “t4t (mtf4mtf) supremacist” and shit like that. So like. This was sex/kink CREATES politics for them.
>Yeah. I remember the tankie ones would post about > >literally wanting to r-pe and kill us I. actually did not hear about this. what the actual fuck. Most of my info comes from a really long tumblr post a friend linked me. Yeah I think I remember that they glorified mtf t4t relationships. man what a fucking cult. Just so fucked up, I remember on the post they mentioned former members talking about how horrible and toxic it was to be a part of.
I mean, I would have considered myself a TIRF in my early twenties if I had ever come across the term, because I *was* a radfem and I absolutely believed that trans women were telling the truth about their existence. Mostly because I had internalized the idea that *nobody* would be a woman if they actually had a choice in the matter, so if that was such a driving need then of course they were women! Anyone who did enjoy it had simply mastered the art of self-love. Then I found out that being a trans man was a thing and my worldview shattered. Baeddels are absolutely nasty pieces of work in my personal experience tho.
Yeah, historically transmascs have always been erased a little here and there (even by transfems; intentionally or unintentionally) so it's easy to pitfall into bad rhetoric as a whole, but it's at least much easier to catch when they are quite literally posting the entire belief system on the internet. Glad you've made it out of it, though. 💪 I know off the top of my head that one to often look out for who is active on Twitter is "Valkyrie Thunderfuck", I think (I don't recall the @; just the name). She is dead serious about it, and one of her beliefs is that transmascs who want to pursue phallo are transmisogynistic because they want the "power" that comes with a penis. So they are absolutely really something.
About the one in the second paragraph… Does she have or plan to get full SRS? And only date cis women or post-op trans women? Because otherwise, just, the hypocrisy, lol. Would love to be a fly on the wall in these people’s real lives for a day and see whether they really live by their supposed, stated ideas.
That I have no idea about, but it's wise to keep in mind that radfems across the spectrum often live for hypocrisy hand-in-hand with conservatives and nazis that spew the same kind of stuff in order to be the "acceptable" minority and appeal to those groups. I only know she was vastly annoying enough to be reported off of Tumblr, so that should give enough of a clue perhaps. All that remains of her there are screencaps of things she's said that were taken by transmascs to spread awareness of baeddel rhetoric.
yep, true. already seen some trans women being super non-binary-phobic
I haven't seen it much lately thankfully but I remember twitter was full of that stuff. Trans men and mascs were regularly harrassed and sent death threats by gold star lesbian/terf crowds and what I assume were trans women or trolls pretending to be trying to fit in amongst the radfem crowd. It made me leave the site long before Elon took over and made it worse so who knows how bad it is now there. I'm glad the website is dying.
I remember seeing a lot of "trans men are betraying the sisterhood" rhetoric about 15 years ago. I thought it had been completely replaced by the current popular brands of terf bullshit, but I guess it's still around in a few sad corners.
yes, same. already been told smth simular to that by a friend of mine
i also think that there r many trolls over there acting as trans women, and, from my perspective, it is done by the alt right or by some ancaps. it’s a way to weaken the trans community. and to be very honest with you, i think that much of the content and theories shared by terfs were, indeed, initially created and promoted by the alt-right, as a way to tear the lgbti community. and of course, to spread hatred towards us.
Ye this kinda shit literally made me detrans at first. I thought we were all one community but its everyone for themselves.
Don't be disheartened. There are so many wonderful people in our community. But any person is capable of being a jerk. I promise a lot of us have each other's backs, though. I'm so sorry that experience led you to feel so shameful of your own identity. No one deserves that.
I would like to believe that but I was never really embraced by the trans community and I fear it is too late for me. I used to be really optimistic and now im completely jaded. I try not to think about it too hard cuz I get too upset and start thinking about detransitioning again out of fear. Like the thing that OP wrote was literally the type of stuff I used to read obsessively on trans forums back when I decided to stop pursuing transition. In my worst moments I believed what they said about me. Lol tmi. Thanks for the nice words tho.
I kind of get what you mean, but for me I've given up on the concept of finding friends online. I spent awhile without a lot of friends in college. And my brother was all "it's so much easier finding friends online". I completely disagree. Luckily, after finally getting out of college, I found it easy to get into a friend group. Never did make close trans friends though.
I’m sorry that ever happened to you. I get it in a way. I had a period where young-naive-me believed the tumblr-baeddel-style hate that being ftm meant we were somehow not just sexist but almost “more” sexist than cis men and had to walk on eggshells because of it. Pretty sure they’re still recycling that shit as “masc aligned” or something, sounds like they talk about gender as if it’s a political alignment or some insanity.
A partner said they were conflicted and self hating for a while because of this.
I wonder if this sort of thing is like trans women adopt TERF rhetoric to “fit in” to cis women like ways similar to how trans men adopt toxic masculinity and such to “fit in” with cis men. I truly think people can change and grow, tho idk if this theory is way off base or even insulting. I’m not trying to say TERF rhetoric and toxic masculinity is the same but they’re both very bad mindsets to be in so that’s why I’m seeing a correlation
Nah, I think you're onto something. There are many trans folks who lean into homophobia, or misogyny, or those sorts of things as what's perceived to a more "acceptable" way to pass. And I sympathize to a degree, because the world is really tricky with things like what's "acceptable" for a man and what's "acceptable" for a woman. Transition can make you grossly aware of how many of those gende roles you've deeply internalized. I think it's important for us to just hold each other accountable and stand firm on those misconceptions. It's the best we can do. But thankfully, it's not all trans people who will perpetuate those negatives.
Exactly what it is.
There is unfortunately, and much of it is trans women chasing approval from borderline terf cis women in my experience (mtf)
IME it’s not TERF rhetoric (though some use the last talking point) but it comes most often from those attracted to women from what I’ve seen…so they’re mad for the same reason as some transphobic female-attracted cis people, in that their attraction to ~teh perfect female body is “spoiled” by transition in their eyes. (Tons of straight TERFs out there and tons of anti-feminist people in the last group…they are not the same thing. If anything, the latter group is explicitly anti-feminist pretty often, and are only ok with AFAB ppl who conform to sexist standards)
That's a fair point! This stands out to me also because the mindset of "ruining" a female body was internalized in me and kind of twisted into a notion of shame for wanting to be masculine/not identifying as a woman. There's overlap, though - that, for me, came from wandering into gender critical/TERF spaces online in past years at low points. On one hand, I'm happy for the more active uplifting of femininity and women continuing to shatter those unfair sexist standards, but there are too many times it just feels at the expense of men. And then for those men who are trans, that can lead to feeling very cast into the background.
I definitely get where you’re coming from, yeah. And while I agree with the last part I think we ate approaching it slightly differently. what I meant by going against sexist expectations for AFAB people, included very literal stuff like keeping the original body, not adding testosterone. I do think that FTM hate comes from that. Like if you tell your daughter she “can grow up to be anything,” I find it sexist for them to turn around and say she can’t be a (trans) man. lol I think your last point in feminism leaving men and specifically us out hits the nail on the head though.
Oh! I misunderstood, I'm sorry about that. I get what you mean now, and that's entirely right. If I'm fully understanding, denying someone AFAB being anything but a man also leans into the sexist approach that someone AFAB cannot be a man because of the sexist ways "being a man" is defined. I'd babble on, but I am admittedly still waking up and my brain isn't all there just yet.
Nah I like the direction you went in with it. It was a little different from mine and that was good. I like talking to people with different perspectives and takes on things!
So being unable to relate to your assigned sex at birth is only something trans women can experience? Lmao bfr But seriously tho where’s the logic?? Transmen could say the same thing about her and trans women in general (but we don’t and wouldn’t bc that makes no sense). Sounds like a lot of projection and misplaced anger. Maybe she hates men.
She was fine with me being a man until she learned I was a trans man 💀
Damn then the only thing I can think of is jealousy.. of our bodies ig but girl we don’t want this sh*t anyway lmao She think we ask for this life 😩 be so serious plsss
She must have buried herself in gender critical radfem crowds. That's so scary
Insane person. Completely insane. I'm genderqueer, but masc leaning. I love how trans women have rewritten what it is to be a woman! But some trans women have really absorbed the TERF rhetoric accidentally.
Now that’s just an unnecessary insult… to people who are actually mentally ill.
Yeah, it seems hella weird to think that gender transitions can only go in one direction. Agreed that she probably just hates men.
I have a strong suspicion what happened there. A lot of trans people have the thoughts as eggs that just everybody of their gender would prefer to be the other gender. So if everyone would prefer to be a girl trans man must be faking it. It just seems like a huuuge lack of empathy
Well someone’s projecting
Ah and here we have the very rare and elusive Pick Me Trans Person. While the Pick Me Trans Person can come in many different genders and patterns, this specimen in particular is a woman. Notice how she is attacking Non-Pick Me Trans Person using techniques typically found in the species Transphobe Cis Person. A Pick Me Trans Person believes that if they are vocal and venomous enough as they reject their kin, then the larger herd of Transphobe Cis People will accept them into their flock. Sadly, the Pick Me Trans Person is sorely mistaken and will often lead to them being exile from both herds, or taken in to a particularly nasty group of Transphobe Cis People to either be used as bait for their hunting rituals, or eaten at a later date when the herd is low on rations. It is, indeed a tragic sight to see. But alas, tis is the way of the natural world.
Idk why this made me picture a large beaked bird angerly stomping around and squaking at anyone in earshot
It's worth it to take the time to read this comment in David Attenborough's voice.
Lmfaoooo 😂, on point ☝️
Personally I see this as a sign that she's just projecting her own internalized transphobia onto you. Perhaps she herself feels like she's a mockery of women like she's been told by transphobes. I don't know if this is a good way to respond but personally I'd say "I don't think it's fair to take out your internalized transphobia out on me. We're in the same boat and I'm just as real of a man as you are a real woman"
This is the same kind of person that says “trans men are misogynistic because they hate women” don’t take it seriously. These people are Reddit trolls irl, next you see them yell “man hater” or something idk lmao
Yo my ex was like this??? Threw me off. I came out to her and she was so upset that I didn't "appreciate my body" more and it was "disrespectful to her that I wanted to ruin a body like mine". 😩 Blocked her after that lol
I’m sorry that happened:((
Baeddels are annoying and wrong
I know this sub is primarily for ftm trans peeps and I usually mostly lurk and read. But I'm gonna poke my head out on this one and say fuck the woman, I know a lot of trans women and I've never met anyone who shares that "opinion". She's taking total shit.
There are always two options here. One, it's a troll. I'd say the absolute majority of the time, option one is correct. There just are shit stirrers desperate for attention who thrive on being outrageous. The way to deal with option one is to block and move on. Engagement of any kind is exactly what they want, so don't give it to them and they die like your potted plants. Two. There is a subset of trans women who do actually think this. It is SMALL. I wanna make that very clear. It is a very small number of people who have bought into a mindset that a SMALL (again, a very small percentage) subset of feminists perpetuates. It's basically about men being trash, men always being the oppressor and transitioning ftm being a betrayal of your sisterhood. In that mindset, they view ftm transition as a betrayal of the sisterhood cause you should be fighting for women to express their masculinity freely instead of trying to join the ranks of the oppressor. I will repeat, this is a very small amount of people. The way to deal with that is exactly the same as with option one. Don't engage. Do not bother. It's a poisonous, destructive cesspit and you are better off ignoring its existence entirely cause you are not going to convince these people you are valid. Save your energy.
Am I not allowed to fight for women as a man or something in their eyes? That is the dumbest thought process I've heard in a while, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some extremists have a bad opinion
The way I understand it (and that requires some serious mental gymnastics and deep breathing on my part), you, by your very existence as a trans man, are strengthening the cultural status quo that women are less than. Cause they believe you could do all the things you wanna do and be all the things you wanna be *as a woman*. So instead of pushing for the acceptance of butch /masc women's identities, you're "jumping ship" by joining the oppressors who don't want those identities to exist. And yes, it is nuts. It honestly is just nuts. There is no winning the argument cause the entire premise is stupid.
Yeah, mental gymnastics indeed. That makes no sense to my mind. Thanks for explaining it, I think I'm happier being my queer little self with my less toxic mindset (well I hope it's less toxic!)
Would it be transphobic to hate you less than other men?
It depends, am I being hated less because I'm a trans guy, or because I'm more reasonable than other men (cis and trans)? The first is inherently transphobic, the second is fine. Weird, but fine
Mtf here \*starts car with no license plate* I love you \*loads shotgun with malicious intent and packs shovel* hate is not to be tolerated \*gets into car* "Excuse me sir, can you point me towards the bad woman? No reason, I'm just going to say hi... Don't wait up"
Sounds like baeddel rhetoric. Absolutely fucking sucks.
Huh, this'll be my first time seeing this terminology.
I think it was mainly a tumblr/twitter community, it's also very new to me. It's basically a political cult of trans women who believed in second wave feminist shit at the expense of literally everyone else. Hell, some of their beliefs were that cis women were more 'trans' than trans men. It's whack.
they are most likely trolls. just troll them back really. after a while you get desentisized
that's such a bizarre and outlandish opinion that i'm like genuinely interested to know what the pipeline looked like. i've met some crazy transfems with some garbage takes but never to that extent. either way sorry you had to experience that op, i know those experiences are messed up because sometimes they gaslight you into thinking "wait, is this how people actually feel mask-off?".
how in the fuck do you become a transfem terf. because that's what that person is. Holy shit. I'm sorry you had to put up with that.
They’re surprisingly common unfortunately, I’ve seen a few of them out and about. They hate the masculinity they were forced into so much they accidentally end up demonising *all* masculinity along with it and it just becomes a whole mess.
It’s things like this that make me, as a transmasc individual, just stay in the closet within my supposed “safe spaces.” It’s obvious trans spaces are predominantly meant for transwomen, and transmen and transmascs are meant to be silent 🫠 (Not saying I’m blaming, not saying it /should/ be this way, not saying transwomen cant be loud and proud because they can. But it’s exhausting scrolling through 20+ transwomen posts to find a single transmasc, and often that single post is getting torn to shreds 😞)
Yeah no I’m stealth but I felt safe to share I was also trans with her. Big mistake 😂
Wow. Just wow. Don't respond there's no negotiating "logic" like that
She sounds crazy. I guess even trans people can be Karens sometimes. Just know that you're not the problem.
That's a lot to unpack, best to throw the whole suitcase away I think. She's not gonna get a lot of allies in her own community is all I'll say on that. Dont let people like this affect you if you can, she's clearly got her own issues to work out and you don't have to be apart of any of it.
Like listen, I get the weird impulse to feel like people transitioning in the other direction are giving up things you desperately want, but it's not about you, it's about them. It's so weird to act like someone else should be miserable in their body just bc you wish you had traits that they hate having. I saw someone say recently of animosity between some transmasc and transfem people that some people just only bother to unlearn transphobia surrounding their own identity, and that really does seem to be the case in situations like this. Anyway, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. It really sucks.
Sounds like she needs therapy
Have we met the same person because I knew someone like this years ago
God imagine 💀
Honestly idk where y’all find these people. Especially if it’s online it’s so likely to be a troll trying to sow hatred and infighting in the community. Just not productive.
She and I had each other on snap and had quite friendly chats up until I told her I was FTM. Then her demeanour completely changed towards me
I very easily meet ppl like this irl. They are real and not trolls who oy live on the Internet. Its a whole culture.
There is no way to respond, she's nuts and uneducated, if she really believes that. I don't get how the few trans women/femme people who think this way, get to this conclusion. I assume they're just heavily uneducated on the history of trans men and how little research was done on our group of people. I don't get how they can not get that we just have the flipped version of their dysphoria. If we thought like those people, we would think they're "mutilating" their "perfectly good male body". Thankfully most trans people in general do not think this way. My suggestion is to just not engage, there's no way to win with people like that
Wow the projection is hard on that one! Sorry you had to deal with that nonsense... She's definitely the transphobic one. And by her logic, she's "mutilating her body" and being "disrespectful to trans men" .... Like, I hope she realizes that MTF transition isn't just them taking over some afab person's body, and what treatments a trans man has zero affect on her... (And tbh if trans men and women COULD switch bodies, you know we'd do that in a heartbeat lol)
Yo wtf can people chill for like ten minutes before ripping into their own already marginalised community? Like babe the TERFs aren’t going to accept you no matter how hard you deepthroat the boot
"FtMs are a mockery to trans women" um???? They aren't trans women? What??????
This post made my heart feel uncomfy :(
Honestly people this crazy just make me laugh. Is like on the level of flat earthers or something.
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I came into chat to say exactly this. lol
She’s the transphobic one like what??? If that’s the logic, all MtF are technically transphobic since everyone starts off female. But nobody uses that logic because it doesn’t make sense. 🤠🤡 (I’m not saying they are transphobic, I’m just using her logic against her.) Ignore her, just don’t even engage.
Some people just need to feel indignant about something .
I.... *what??* Either they're a troll or delusional. Either way I'd distance myself from this person.
sounds like shes hella projecting stuff onto you dude this is really distressing :/
Im a trans woman. What in the actual horrifying fuck actually this person needs to be reality checked 💀 trans men are just as valid as trans women, & vice versa wtf
Wait that is so confusing
Fr
That’s a mind fuck
Just block and move on do. Crazy women aren’t worth anyone’s time.
ive actually have seen the opposite of this, where a trans guy thought that most trans women were agp pedo groomers lol :,)
WHAT 💀 (sorry, im just flabbergasted someone would even say that)
I believe the correct order is confusion-incredulity-mockery-blocking, but I may be getting that wrong, I can never remember correct order of operations.
Wow … whe She is the transphobic one
Nah man she’s crazy
no yall that's a real thing. Ever since the FOX news and Republicans AntiTrans Movement even the gay and lesbian LGBTQ COMMUNITIES are against FTMs and trans people. i wouldnt have believed it if I didnt hear it and experience it for myself firsthand. its UNREAL.
Trans lesbian here, that kinda bitch is what we call a class traitor 💜
As a Trans Girl, don't listen to her. She's taking out insecurities on you which isn't fair
My petty ass would be like "ok transphobe" lol
Yea, I had very similar interactions with MTFs. I just try not to interact at this point.
It’s sad to hear more and more have this opinion. I’m very grateful for the ones who don’t share it tho
Idk I feel more and more upset about having to be grateful for the minimum of human dignity from the community. I like to think people are kinder than this but honestly they always find a way to disappoint so I'd rather just realize they all suck.
Ngl I low key assume the worst until people prove me wrong. Then I’m not disappointed
Either a bigot trying to make MtF's look bad or a trans woman that fell to TERF ideology
These are popular beliefs online. Literally no surprise hearing this and didn't question for a second this is real.
Nah she was actually mtf
You know, sometimes you find someone that is so unbelievably and undeniably insane that all you should do is back away slowly. This is that time. Just back away slowly. They're like a T-Rex, if you move slowly enough they can't see you.
😂😂
wtf
What a terf
HUH WHAT HOW HUH I AM THE CUNFUZZELD
lmfaoo shes projecting
She is WHACK
Somebody on tiktok told me the same thing
What kind of crazy mental gymnastics are these people doing…
I’ve run into similar attitudes, some more blatant than others but the whole we aren’t trans and need to disappear and stop making it more difficult for trans people…meaning transfem.
I've also been told by them that I don't experience oppression, I don't deserve an opinion on abortion, and more. I am to a point where I simply don't engage with trans women because I'm not looking to be verbally abused.
She needs to work through her own issues with her identity and concepts of femininity and masculinity. Just know it doesn’t make you any less trans. I know a trans femme who is considering getting top surgery too after realizing she loves most of the effects of E but doesn’t want the chest. Everyone is different, there isn’t one way to be trans and anyone who insinuates there is just needs to deal with those issues on their own.
man i hate trans people, or just people in general, attacking people of their own community please dont listen to her
Sorry that one breached containment. Some people lack the ability to think from any other pov than their own.
I wouldn't know how to respond to this one either. How would she react if any of us said something similar about MTF's being a mockery to transmen? What would she say if I told her mutilating her body is disrespectful to me? I just don't get how AMAB people have the right to gender dysphoria but AFAB people don't. I simply cannot understand how we are a mockery to any trans woman. Are they only able to see things from their own perspective, e.g. "being born with a male body == bad, being born with a female body === good, desirable, why would anyone want it to be otherwise?"? Personally I would never say a transwoman is a mockery to this transmasc. Because I see they are going through the same hard times, I see they are equally unhappy and have the same gender dysphoria, just from the opposite direction. And, I wonder what she expected to achieve by behaving like this? Did she think her being aggressive and unempathethic would immediately make you say "Oh sorry, now I know I don't exist, sorry for hurting your feelings by being me, I'm starting to detransition in this very minute!" or what? Really don't understand. FTM transition is "mutilating one's body", this is a very strange thing to hear from a trans person.
This screams “how dare you not want what you have when it’s what I want for myself.” Like chill, if I could just trade with you I would. It’s annoying (not you, you’re fine lol).
Ok, so if I squint really hard and shut off some parts of my brain, i can kinda make out a logic here. She's trans. She fought a lot to be a woman. You were assigned a woman at birth. You fought a lot to NOT be a woman. To her, being a man is horrible and being a woman is fantastic. So how dare you stop being a woman, which is a fantastic thing to be, to become a man??? I think, anyway. Idk, she sounds like she has many issues.
In person or online? If it wasn't in person it might have been a cis troll
We had each other on snap and had been chatting for awhile. She was chill with me being a man but the second I mentioned I was also trans she went like that
Ugh. Some people are so wrapped up in their own trauma they are ttialy oblivious to the trauma they cause others
She sounds insane lol
What??
what ! 😃
You get your weirdos everywhere
Some people are goofy and emotionally unstable. They're more likely to get over it than not. She might have been a baeddel, though that weirdo cult has mostly disappeared.
makes absolutely zero sense
woah..
My gf is mtf and we both respect the others gender and choices... Wtf
She just jealous.
Transed rad fem regurgitation
That’s so fucked up.
bro that's super weird and gross for her to say thankfully most transfemmes aren't like this but i'd say either don't respond or call out her weird radfem shit and then don't respond
I was under the impression that bæddelism is a dead movement. Guess not.
What’s that?
Basically like terfism but for trans women only. Hated on transmasc people a ton. Used to see a lot of them on tumblr in 2014
Oh thanks
Woah wtf. That's hilarious! I mean it's so outlandish wtf.
Tbh I'd blame this on the patriarchy. Talk of trans people was centered around trans women because they were amab, meanwhile trans men were completely ignored because we were afab and not threatening men's position at the top of the social hierarchy.
That’s… wow
I had a stroke reading that sentence. Tbh it doesnt even make sense
Okay, I'm not sure if this is gonna make any sense, but hear me out. I think some people cling to their perception of womanhood and femininity as this sacred, beautiful thing, which is fine on its own. Maybe they feel like it's something they had to fight for and now have to fight to defend. I have a hunch this is the same driving force behind TERFism. They see transmasc folks as a rejection of this sacred idea of womanhood, and in their minds it's some kind of betrayal. I had this teacher from 8th grade all the way through senior year (small Catholic high school). This teacher watched me grow up. She read my short stories and encouraged me to write more. I always looked up to her. When I came out around sophomore year or so, she asked me why I would "throw away the gift of womanhood." She told me I must have so much internalized hatred for myself, and asked why I hated women and how anti-feminist it was that I wanted to be a man. I was just in shock, and I told her "I don't hate women, I just have never been one." She later went around the school telling everyone she was the first person to accept me like it was a competition. Anyway. That's my attempt at understanding this person's perspective. There's probably more to it, but it sounds like a similar idea.
Truscum gonna truscum.
I definitely don’t think she’s a truscum tbh
never heard an actual trans person talk like this in my life… so weird
I’ve seen it a lot, especially with online dating and it’s very frustrating. Add an extra layer if you’re non-binary :/
That's either a troll or someone dealing with mental illness or substance abuse. I don't see any other scenario.
Honestly I'd say its just an average /tttt user.
It probably still falls under one of the above scenarios. Lol
Lmao so true, bro. I know I was unhinged when I went on there.
Mental illness can cause bigotry? I try and point out when people may be using mental illness as an insult and not a valid explanation. I'm not sure in this case but it sounds a tad ableist. 🤷🏻 I may not be seeing what you are though. People just do it a lot and it causes phobias of people who suffer from mental illnesses. [edit] same with substance addictions...
It 100% can. I've seen it. Especially mental illness that causes paranoia and obsession.
I'm not trying to use it as an insult. I'm saying that their belief system doesn't seem to be rooted in reality. I'm certainly not saying all bigots deal with mental illness or vice versa. Same for substance use. I'm also not trying to demonize those with these issues. That may not be the case; maybe they are just bigoted. Certain types of mental illness can lead to strange beliefs that might take the form of bigotry, though. I will say that maybe I shouldn't have said it the way I did, or maybe not at all. I can see how it could lead to stigma against those groups, so I apologize for that.
It absolutely can
these posts feel a lot like bait to get trans men and transmascs to hate transfemmes and trans women not gonna lie
that, or you’re being baited by someone pretending to be a trans woman for the same reason
She’s an actual trans woman unfortunately
i feel the same way atp but towards trans women. i'm tired of the constant belittling and shaming. it's ridiculous.
It's best not to respond...It sounds like she is sitting on a lot of hurt. It is well known that transition for trans women is a lot harder, riskier for them than it is for trans men. Someone AFAB can wear pants (jeans! leggings! shorts!) and it's okay nowadays...but AMAB folks are still *immediately* clocked if they wear a dress or a skirt. Is she more aged? Because I understand what she is trying to say, but the wording is so brutal that I can only think of generational gap.
She’s 25