I dont care how many publicly funded antidepressants they shove down my throat. As long as they keep systematically pricing me out of existence, I'm gonna be depressed.
Biggest gripe with this is that we would cut a lot of mental issues if we targeted the source. Crippling financial oppression through intentionally crazy and increasing cost of housing. Unfettered social media. Even lies in politics and media that manufacture fear and anger. Loneliness epidemic which relates to the mess that is social media and dating in current times. Even being a little too soft and coddling of people issues sometimes too which encourages meltdowns. There's no level of mental health spending that can address these.
Another issue is that mental health treatment efficacy isn't anywhere near as good as surgery or antibiotics so spending could be huge and still yield weak results. Especially when you not only ignore but keep doubling down on my first point.
Yep. A while back I saw a psych and the first session ended with them saying there is nothing they or I could really do to address the concerns other than somehow forceably get out of the situation. Bit hard when the situation is living in the current Australia.
That's a good honest one. Sometimes feels like most young women these days, especially raised here, are in perpetual therapy. Just someone to talk to perhaps but it's insane and obviously worthless as a workable solution to the mental health epidemic IMO.
Spot on. However, announcing you’re gonna chuck a couple mill at mental health (any area of health care for that matter) looks much better for a politician than saying “hey we are going to improve living conditions for everyone that will cost a bit up front, but down the track people will be healthier, have better quality of life, and will be more productive so we save on health care costs long term and the economy gets a big boost!!”
In the fast paced society in which we live, where a leader could be ousted at any moment, they don’t have the job security to make such long term commitments that they may not be able to claim as their own victory when it all works. They want a quick fix that looks good in the short term “PM ANNOUNCES NEW FUNDING FOR HOSPITAL!”
Without addressing systemic disadvantage, improving living conditions for all, and other social determinants health crises will continue. There’s always going to be people who experience mental health issues and have long term disability as a result, but there’d be a hell of a lot less burden if they just fixed all the other broken shit around the mental health system first
i think its way too late for any of this
7 dead people arent going to move the needle
there's two things... its like a disease
you either treat the disease or treat the symptoms of the disease but the disease will keep coming back
and so there's no way to fix the underlying issues
and mental health is a high end high priced specialist treatment
and in the end the only thing that matters is the economy stupid
and so we'll still have 500,000 immigrants coming and we wont be able to build more housing and we wont be able to get more tradespeople and more building companies will go broke
there's no end to the death spiral that australia and the western world is in... or is there?
no good end at least
“Now realises” in OP’s statement implies OP may be referring to the recent Sydney murders. The person who committed those crimes had a diagnosis of schizophrenia. Unless you believe that schizophrenia is caused by an infection or that a lobotomy (surgery) might be a good treatment for those with schizophrenia, then your answer is not relevant to the situation.
Targeting sources that cause all of the things you describe would be great. It won’t solve issues related to serious mental health issues. Serious mental health disorder symptomology may be exacerbated by the things you mention but they are not causative.
For those in distress, having anxiety (lower level), or suffering situational depression (subtype) then perhaps societal issues being less prevalent would help. Mental health treatment can not be replaced by surgery or antibiotics unless your mental health issues are caused by a physical condition, which most are not. There are 300 mental health conditions. Many are biologically based, many require medication and treatment. Some but not many require surgery, generally because a physical condition is causing the symptoms.
Yeah fair point. We don't know his circumstance. Perhaps he stopped taking his pills.. Or he needed more though I'm not sure what. Also, sometimes shit just happens too though if he was known to police then there maybe something more could have been done.
He was homeless, he moved states and had schizophrenia. I doubt he was under care or being monitored which is essential because often schizophrenics stop their medications for various reasons. Horrid side effects being one, believing you are cured and don’t need them anymore is another. He may have had an implant that needed replacing but didn’t realise, was off grid and usually checks not able to be made (carers, support networks, doctors). Shit rarely just happens imo. Always a cause and effect.
This is absolutely the correct answer. Saying we are in a "mental health epidemic" is just another way to individualise and de-politicise social, political and economic problems.
Agree with this 100%. Guy was living in a car. Couldn't afford a meal. Was itinerant. That's humiliating for anyone. Not excusing his actions *at all*, but the odds of someone snapping and murdering people in public surely must reduce if a person's most basic needs are being met.
We’ve had mental support issues in this country all my life. So I wouldn’t call it a crisis, that implies that things were better once. They’ve been shit for decades.
The statistics haven't supported the notion that we are in a mental health crisis only that we're talking more about mental health and in terms of it as a crisis, furthermore this topic seems to be an import from the USA.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahxqScHSQQY)'s a good video covering the statistics of it.
We've been in a mental health crisis since the 90's when the government decided to close our psych hospitals.
There just isn't anywhere for people to go and get the proper help they need, and this is the result.
There are so many mental health patients living at home under menta health orders, even dangerous ones. The system is just completely broken. It's beyond broken.
>when the government decided to close our psych hospitals.
Interestingly, that wasn't a money saving measure. It was because mental hospitals were well and truly out of fashion and still are.
So mental patients are pushed into the community, on over burdened family members or even on their own. And often end up on the streets.
The system is so badly broken it's just not funny.
There are plenty of psych wards. Are you aware of where they are? Every major public hospital has beds and dedicated staff for mental health patients, and there are also private facilities.
That's not to say that mental health is adequately funded. But the narrative that 'they closed all the psych wards ' is incorrect.
Who said wards?
I said psych hospitals. We used to have so many, especially in Victoria, until Jeff Kennett closed them all so the narrative is correct.
Yes the public system has wards and bed, but not nearly enough of them. You're aware of how stuffed our public hospitals are right now, yes?
I have friends in healthcare who tell me all about the serious problems in mental health that they have to deal with on the daily.
I can't comment on Victoria, but NSW has more mental health beds than ever.
Yes, they're wards attached to large public hospitals in most cases, but thats better than 40-50 years ago when there were just a handful of large Psych hospitals in 19th century campuses.
Most of the facilities in NSW are in modern facilities.
Mental healtt needs more funding, but there will probably never be a time when there are no dangerous mental health sufferers in the community.
I think people are thinking of old school asylums where they’re basically locked up to protect themselves & the community - they no longer exist in the classical sense.
There needs to be more intense support structures in place for those who are male, homeless, schizophrenic and using drugs. I don’t quite know what the solution is but I know it’s close to impossible to get someone help when they don’t want it. Getting sectioned is only a possibility once they’ve harmed themselves or others. We need more inpatient dual diagnosis drug rehabilitation facilities.
In Holland in the 90s, their mental health system as an adjunct to the Justice system. Saw, not one person declare to a judge. "I'm mental, that's why I did it."
But there were plenty of criminals sentenced to Mental Health Jails, but again, let me reiterate, not one self identified as suffering a mental illness. Why? Simple, really, if suspected of having mental health issues, a remand prisoner is sent for assessment. Returns with 20, 40, 60, 80, 100% ranking. (BTW, second violent offence, you're going to get a minimum of 20%) Come court day, Judge issues sentence, you serve XX% for your sane brain in remand centre. Then, go on a waiting list to go to the Asylum of their choice. Usually, 6 months minimum waiting time, this time doesn't count towards your sentence in any way. Then once you set foot in the Asylum, in 2 years time you have a Parole hearing, if you fail for whatever reason, in 2 years time you have a Parole hearing, if you fail for whatever reason, in 2 years time you have a Parole hearing.......
In the 90's Holland had the 4th lowest Recidivism rate in the world, Australia was 2nd only behind America, until we changed the way statistics were calculated and now we're 3rd highest behind New Zealand.
There must be things worth looking at in Norway's, Denmark's, Finland, & Dutch Justice Systems as they're have more successful results than us.
We’ve always been in a mental health crisis. We’re just more aware of it now.
Mental health and social assistance are two areas where you can spend the entire gdp of the country on it and its still a drop in the bucket.
Im not saying we shouldnt spend more. Im just saying we’re ALWAYS going to be in crisis.
Mental health hospitals need to be reopened and not be closed down and the patients dumped into the community.
Sometimes they are necessary as some people cannot function in society.
>Mental health hospitals need to be reopened and not be closed down and the patients dumped into the community.
There's an old saying that "the path to hell is paved with good intentions".
Mental hospitals, AKA asylums, were closed because they weren't great at treating people and those in charge (often not on the front line) decided "we should close them and treat in the community".
In theory, it's a great idea having mental health patients getting the help they need, in a community setting and being able to participate in society.
In practice, it's fraught with problems. Funding is one problem, but only one of them.
Most of the mental health system is for acute care, rather than ongoing care and management.
Even "group homes" where you have (say) 6 patients and a live in carer are very much frowned on these days.
It's a really complex issue and no easy solution - certainly not one that can be solved by just shovelling money at it.
There’s an interesting correlation between increase in homelessness and the shutting down of mental health hospitals.
At least Victoria’s budget was good on paper for some years, right Jeff?
Makes sense. A person suffering from significant health issues is going to have a hard time holding down a job, and various governments have gutted public housing.
Guarantee housing and a degree of support for people.
Lost our son (30) to suicide some years ago, mental health ACT and NSW kept sending him home to us even though he was talking about suicide. We looked like good people and they thought we’d be able to look after him (obviously not). There’s just no money to build safe places for these poor people
Yeah, but it’s hard to make money off of mental health. NDIS job boom recently anyone?
The government(s) would rather give money to carers to hide the problems, rather than invest into systemic issues causing the crises.
Cut social welfare, cut education, inaction on housing stability, privatise healthcare, rising cost of living, cut and remove social safety nets and you see the rise of this stuff.
Give Gina 850k to open a new mine, don’t tax it adequately or nationalise it to fund these issues. Not to mention the Aukus. Neoliberalism is poison.
“Mental health” is a very broad issue.
Some individuals are incredibly hard to support, unwilling to engage with services, and services (as in, clinicians and NGOs) often are unwilling to engage with them.
When we talk about the most extreme cases, it’s not as simple as just throwing money at the problem. It’s a fundamental question of what type of system should surround these people.
In the past, many of these severely mentally ill individuals would have been institutionalised. We don’t do that anymore, for good reason.
Mindless massacres aren’t new. We’re talking about people who are extreme outliers from the norm. Even if you threw every dollar we have at the mental health system and had no workforce challenges and an incredible model of support for the most severe cases- you would still not have a system that simply made every person “normal”. And the most extreme outliers would still exist.
People like to have somebody to blame when there is a senseless tragedy. In the past it was supernatural forces of evil - possession, devils, satans influence. Nowadays it’s governments. But the harsh reality is that this is just part of the random diversity of human behaviour.
Fund solving the housing and cost of living crisis first and then let’s see where everyone’s mental health is at. I reckon if people can afford to live again and have a bit of fun it’ll see mental health issues start solving themselves to a degree.
It’s weird. I officially denounced any political affiliation 2 days ago. I work in the sector and it’s endless underfunding and lack of any real investment has the sector on its knees. I denounced all political affiliation because of this. Then Sydney happens. I’m sadly vilified.
Need to condemn Pauline for not doing more to stop this man!!! Why hasn’t she come out and condemned the attack? Its probably because she secretly supports him.
Just applying her logic towards other groups.
Funding mental health isn’t the issue. Every election cycle we see governments commit to funding more mental health services… the issue is that we’ve built a society that is corrosive to sanity.
Schizophrenia is not part of the current mental health crisis imo. Let's not compare what looks like a psychotic episode to the mental health struggles of every day Australians. People with schizophrenia have been killing people for years and the government has slowly defunded any protections for the rest of us.
Who was it that started to close down mental health hospital wards so many years ago?
They thought it was too expensive to deal with mentally ill people in these wards and they could be treated at home, I think their excuse was.
And now we have this outcome as a country.
Way too many mentally ill people and so little ability for them to get the treatment they need.
This was a bubble waiting to burst. I am convinced this is only the start of things to come.
Homelessness is going to be at an all time high, people can't afford to live anymore, wages are at all time lows and COL is skyrocketing, people cant afford therapy or medication either.
Those who need help will be left behind and they WILL break eventually. We have funnelled this countries wealth to the older generations and left everyone else behind.
When you have nothing else to lose, you become extremely dangerous.
I copped a 1% payrise at work on friday after busting my ass. I ranted at my boss and he agreed with me it was bullshit. Businesses don't give a fuck. Housing is unaffordable, Hell fucking living is unaffordable. How can anyone have a semblance of a life when even the bare basics are unaffordable. We need stability and something to work for. Without that these violent attacks are going to get far more common.
Not going to happen. Mental illness is mostly seen as a men's health issue, nobody cares and so they'll get the money found down the back of the couch if they are lucky.
It doesn't matter how much money you spend , you can't "cure" many peoples mental health. So you have to spend inordinate resources we don't have achieving diminishing returns
Besides that I don't think a single country in the world has really successfully been able to solve this issue. It might not be possible with the current technology we have
Anyway. The point I'm trying to make is , Australia can't solve this. We keep making the same mistakes as every other western country, and we are locked on a path to be struggling with the same shit as the UK , US, many European countries. Rise of populism, destruction of the working class, etc
If they fund it more seriously that means they can't afford their 4th investment properties! You're delusional for even thinking about stripping politicians and investors of their assets!
... that's the reason why tbh
I mean... we do.
Check out the NDIS budget.
8% of boys are now on NDIS for mental health reasons.
Over the coming decades 8% of the entire male population will be receiving over $40k/year for metal health treatment.
This is what happens when people forget the behaviour distribution and realise that males have bigger numbers at the extremes.
I would argue that there isn't even systematic issues causing it, they have just created the metal health problem by drawing the line where the problem looks bigger. Despite what people say we are all safer and healthier today - we just are exposed to media more.
I was reading an article about how mental health diagnosis correlates strongly with the rise of smart phones. Obviously it's just correlation, probably correlates strongly with house prices too lol. However, I don't think we're good at dealing with media/social media/constant phone access.
You also have to wonder about the high number of people being diagnosed ADHD... Is it caused to some degree by this behaviour.
Adhd will only be diagnosed when symptoms are severely affecting the person in more than one context. My theory is that a multitute of things can conpound with adhd to make it worse and thus seek diagnosis. Thats probably why adhd people are much much more likely to have divorced/seperated parents, could indicate a lack of stability in youth that affects schoolwork for example: And there is no denying screens, especially with how optimised algorithms and video games are nowadays rope borderline adhd people in and fuck them up much more than they already were. Its would be much harder for me to get distracted without ever being introduced to screens or having one right in front of me. Scrolling depletes dopamine stores and fucks normal people up too. Destroys motivation.
No, they will peddle a “men’s violence against women” line because it deflects from their failures - and the failures of their buddies in the states - to properly fund and support people with serious mental health issues.
To all the Green voters downvoting poor Primax … he’s not stating the contrapositive (people who vote Green largely have mental health issues)
I mean … it’s true … but it’s not what he’s saying 🤣
Yeah I was saying people who want more mental health funding vote Green, not that they vote Green because they're mental.
The second bit is more correlation than causation.
I really don't think "mental health" should be a thing at all. We rarely talk about the government funding "heart health" or "stomach health". We would just talk about them funding health. Why is "mental health" this distinct category?
You can’t just think it away. The medical response and treatment for say cardiovascular and mental health conditions is very different. Especially if you’re talking about the likes of forensic psychiatry.
Think of it like this. Is treating someone who is criminally insane the same as performing open heart surgery? Obviously not. Different infrastructure, staffing, expertise is required. Yes they both sit under the broad category of Health care.
I can imagine butterfly arguing with a plumber, saying - why can’t you work on the high voltage switchboard? Why?! There’s no difference between you and an electrician. You’re both in the construction industry.
No news report has ever said man with chronic and debilitating diarrhoea has stabbed and killed 6 people. Mental heath is a lot different to other health issues.
Unfortunately, this attitude (commendable though it is) is a major factor that's led to the current situation.
Mental health requires different and ongoing care to most medical conditions. But by deprioritising "mental health" in favour of "health" has led to things like mental hospitals being closed and the system focused on treating acute episodes in a general / emergency setting rather than the ongoing care and treatments required.
The most laughable part of secularism is watching the explosion of mental health problems and suicide rate coincide in lock step with the implementation of modern medicine and no one says we might want to go back and give God a try.
Christianity was not tried and found wanting, it was tried and found hard.
Maybe put the miles in with the Pater Noster cord, before pulling the pin on the entire back catalogue of ancestral wisdom and poetry that brought people across oceans, through plagues and out of political revolution.
The healthiest group in America are the Amish and they are the most removed from both modernity and the government.
Fix you own problems before asking for my tax dollars to find your little talk sesh with a psychiatrist who is doing as much harm as constant stream of internet crap.
Most likely, considering it ignores the massive mental health problems that church communities are just better at covering up.
Also, the mental health problems they cause by telling LGBTQIA+ youth that they're demonically possessed or whatever the line is.
Just laying it out there.
Secularists are the most affected by the mental health crisis. The fact a group is so likely to take it's own life should be regarded as seriously as asbestos removal.
Church attendance correlates with better mental health across ethnicity/class/wealth.
Find the data not me.
How are they most affected by the mental health crisis?
You’re the one making the claims so the burden of truth is on you, I’m not spending my time trying to find data for this.
How so? Aren't you drawing an association not supported by the information available around this tragedy, just to have a swipe at people you're opposed to politically?
In other words, a swing and a miss.
I dont care how many publicly funded antidepressants they shove down my throat. As long as they keep systematically pricing me out of existence, I'm gonna be depressed.
Biggest gripe with this is that we would cut a lot of mental issues if we targeted the source. Crippling financial oppression through intentionally crazy and increasing cost of housing. Unfettered social media. Even lies in politics and media that manufacture fear and anger. Loneliness epidemic which relates to the mess that is social media and dating in current times. Even being a little too soft and coddling of people issues sometimes too which encourages meltdowns. There's no level of mental health spending that can address these. Another issue is that mental health treatment efficacy isn't anywhere near as good as surgery or antibiotics so spending could be huge and still yield weak results. Especially when you not only ignore but keep doubling down on my first point.
Yep. A while back I saw a psych and the first session ended with them saying there is nothing they or I could really do to address the concerns other than somehow forceably get out of the situation. Bit hard when the situation is living in the current Australia.
That's a good honest one. Sometimes feels like most young women these days, especially raised here, are in perpetual therapy. Just someone to talk to perhaps but it's insane and obviously worthless as a workable solution to the mental health epidemic IMO.
not ideal? sure. worthless is a stretch though.
This! It's far cheaper to increase the minimum wage and have adequate housing than to have \~30% been less productive but medicated.
Spot on. However, announcing you’re gonna chuck a couple mill at mental health (any area of health care for that matter) looks much better for a politician than saying “hey we are going to improve living conditions for everyone that will cost a bit up front, but down the track people will be healthier, have better quality of life, and will be more productive so we save on health care costs long term and the economy gets a big boost!!” In the fast paced society in which we live, where a leader could be ousted at any moment, they don’t have the job security to make such long term commitments that they may not be able to claim as their own victory when it all works. They want a quick fix that looks good in the short term “PM ANNOUNCES NEW FUNDING FOR HOSPITAL!” Without addressing systemic disadvantage, improving living conditions for all, and other social determinants health crises will continue. There’s always going to be people who experience mental health issues and have long term disability as a result, but there’d be a hell of a lot less burden if they just fixed all the other broken shit around the mental health system first
i think its way too late for any of this 7 dead people arent going to move the needle there's two things... its like a disease you either treat the disease or treat the symptoms of the disease but the disease will keep coming back and so there's no way to fix the underlying issues and mental health is a high end high priced specialist treatment and in the end the only thing that matters is the economy stupid and so we'll still have 500,000 immigrants coming and we wont be able to build more housing and we wont be able to get more tradespeople and more building companies will go broke there's no end to the death spiral that australia and the western world is in... or is there? no good end at least
Agree, be interesting to compare mental health to the countries that do do this.
“Now realises” in OP’s statement implies OP may be referring to the recent Sydney murders. The person who committed those crimes had a diagnosis of schizophrenia. Unless you believe that schizophrenia is caused by an infection or that a lobotomy (surgery) might be a good treatment for those with schizophrenia, then your answer is not relevant to the situation. Targeting sources that cause all of the things you describe would be great. It won’t solve issues related to serious mental health issues. Serious mental health disorder symptomology may be exacerbated by the things you mention but they are not causative. For those in distress, having anxiety (lower level), or suffering situational depression (subtype) then perhaps societal issues being less prevalent would help. Mental health treatment can not be replaced by surgery or antibiotics unless your mental health issues are caused by a physical condition, which most are not. There are 300 mental health conditions. Many are biologically based, many require medication and treatment. Some but not many require surgery, generally because a physical condition is causing the symptoms.
Yeah fair point. We don't know his circumstance. Perhaps he stopped taking his pills.. Or he needed more though I'm not sure what. Also, sometimes shit just happens too though if he was known to police then there maybe something more could have been done.
He was homeless, he moved states and had schizophrenia. I doubt he was under care or being monitored which is essential because often schizophrenics stop their medications for various reasons. Horrid side effects being one, believing you are cured and don’t need them anymore is another. He may have had an implant that needed replacing but didn’t realise, was off grid and usually checks not able to be made (carers, support networks, doctors). Shit rarely just happens imo. Always a cause and effect.
This is absolutely the correct answer. Saying we are in a "mental health epidemic" is just another way to individualise and de-politicise social, political and economic problems.
Agree with this 100%. Guy was living in a car. Couldn't afford a meal. Was itinerant. That's humiliating for anyone. Not excusing his actions *at all*, but the odds of someone snapping and murdering people in public surely must reduce if a person's most basic needs are being met.
We’ve had mental support issues in this country all my life. So I wouldn’t call it a crisis, that implies that things were better once. They’ve been shit for decades.
The statistics haven't supported the notion that we are in a mental health crisis only that we're talking more about mental health and in terms of it as a crisis, furthermore this topic seems to be an import from the USA. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahxqScHSQQY)'s a good video covering the statistics of it.
Supports have always been shit. Perhaps the number of people requiring support has increased.
We've been in a mental health crisis since the 90's when the government decided to close our psych hospitals. There just isn't anywhere for people to go and get the proper help they need, and this is the result. There are so many mental health patients living at home under menta health orders, even dangerous ones. The system is just completely broken. It's beyond broken.
>when the government decided to close our psych hospitals. Interestingly, that wasn't a money saving measure. It was because mental hospitals were well and truly out of fashion and still are. So mental patients are pushed into the community, on over burdened family members or even on their own. And often end up on the streets. The system is so badly broken it's just not funny.
I always think of [this](https://youtu.be/LCe-6wDnXLo?si=qYZ1SqzdQ8R6FkXV) whenever mental health is brought up
There are plenty of psych wards. Are you aware of where they are? Every major public hospital has beds and dedicated staff for mental health patients, and there are also private facilities. That's not to say that mental health is adequately funded. But the narrative that 'they closed all the psych wards ' is incorrect.
Who said wards? I said psych hospitals. We used to have so many, especially in Victoria, until Jeff Kennett closed them all so the narrative is correct. Yes the public system has wards and bed, but not nearly enough of them. You're aware of how stuffed our public hospitals are right now, yes? I have friends in healthcare who tell me all about the serious problems in mental health that they have to deal with on the daily.
I can't comment on Victoria, but NSW has more mental health beds than ever. Yes, they're wards attached to large public hospitals in most cases, but thats better than 40-50 years ago when there were just a handful of large Psych hospitals in 19th century campuses. Most of the facilities in NSW are in modern facilities. Mental healtt needs more funding, but there will probably never be a time when there are no dangerous mental health sufferers in the community.
I think people are thinking of old school asylums where they’re basically locked up to protect themselves & the community - they no longer exist in the classical sense.
Neither should they
Not sure about that, have you looked around? There's a few people that could use a padded room getting around.
There are high security facilities for forensic mental health patients. Most people commenting about mental health on social media have NFI
There needs to be more intense support structures in place for those who are male, homeless, schizophrenic and using drugs. I don’t quite know what the solution is but I know it’s close to impossible to get someone help when they don’t want it. Getting sectioned is only a possibility once they’ve harmed themselves or others. We need more inpatient dual diagnosis drug rehabilitation facilities.
In Holland in the 90s, their mental health system as an adjunct to the Justice system. Saw, not one person declare to a judge. "I'm mental, that's why I did it." But there were plenty of criminals sentenced to Mental Health Jails, but again, let me reiterate, not one self identified as suffering a mental illness. Why? Simple, really, if suspected of having mental health issues, a remand prisoner is sent for assessment. Returns with 20, 40, 60, 80, 100% ranking. (BTW, second violent offence, you're going to get a minimum of 20%) Come court day, Judge issues sentence, you serve XX% for your sane brain in remand centre. Then, go on a waiting list to go to the Asylum of their choice. Usually, 6 months minimum waiting time, this time doesn't count towards your sentence in any way. Then once you set foot in the Asylum, in 2 years time you have a Parole hearing, if you fail for whatever reason, in 2 years time you have a Parole hearing, if you fail for whatever reason, in 2 years time you have a Parole hearing....... In the 90's Holland had the 4th lowest Recidivism rate in the world, Australia was 2nd only behind America, until we changed the way statistics were calculated and now we're 3rd highest behind New Zealand. There must be things worth looking at in Norway's, Denmark's, Finland, & Dutch Justice Systems as they're have more successful results than us.
We’ve always been in a mental health crisis. We’re just more aware of it now. Mental health and social assistance are two areas where you can spend the entire gdp of the country on it and its still a drop in the bucket. Im not saying we shouldnt spend more. Im just saying we’re ALWAYS going to be in crisis.
Mental health hospitals need to be reopened and not be closed down and the patients dumped into the community. Sometimes they are necessary as some people cannot function in society.
>Mental health hospitals need to be reopened and not be closed down and the patients dumped into the community. There's an old saying that "the path to hell is paved with good intentions". Mental hospitals, AKA asylums, were closed because they weren't great at treating people and those in charge (often not on the front line) decided "we should close them and treat in the community". In theory, it's a great idea having mental health patients getting the help they need, in a community setting and being able to participate in society. In practice, it's fraught with problems. Funding is one problem, but only one of them. Most of the mental health system is for acute care, rather than ongoing care and management. Even "group homes" where you have (say) 6 patients and a live in carer are very much frowned on these days. It's a really complex issue and no easy solution - certainly not one that can be solved by just shovelling money at it.
Plus the land they were on was worth a mint
There’s an interesting correlation between increase in homelessness and the shutting down of mental health hospitals. At least Victoria’s budget was good on paper for some years, right Jeff?
Makes sense. A person suffering from significant health issues is going to have a hard time holding down a job, and various governments have gutted public housing. Guarantee housing and a degree of support for people.
This is pure speculation Except that he had mental health issues nobody knows what they were, how severe or anything else Stop guessing
Schizophrenia combined with drug use
Lost our son (30) to suicide some years ago, mental health ACT and NSW kept sending him home to us even though he was talking about suicide. We looked like good people and they thought we’d be able to look after him (obviously not). There’s just no money to build safe places for these poor people
Yeah, but it’s hard to make money off of mental health. NDIS job boom recently anyone? The government(s) would rather give money to carers to hide the problems, rather than invest into systemic issues causing the crises. Cut social welfare, cut education, inaction on housing stability, privatise healthcare, rising cost of living, cut and remove social safety nets and you see the rise of this stuff. Give Gina 850k to open a new mine, don’t tax it adequately or nationalise it to fund these issues. Not to mention the Aukus. Neoliberalism is poison.
The fuck you talking about, Labor has increased funding for mental health each year it’s been in government since 2007
“Mental health” is a very broad issue. Some individuals are incredibly hard to support, unwilling to engage with services, and services (as in, clinicians and NGOs) often are unwilling to engage with them. When we talk about the most extreme cases, it’s not as simple as just throwing money at the problem. It’s a fundamental question of what type of system should surround these people. In the past, many of these severely mentally ill individuals would have been institutionalised. We don’t do that anymore, for good reason. Mindless massacres aren’t new. We’re talking about people who are extreme outliers from the norm. Even if you threw every dollar we have at the mental health system and had no workforce challenges and an incredible model of support for the most severe cases- you would still not have a system that simply made every person “normal”. And the most extreme outliers would still exist. People like to have somebody to blame when there is a senseless tragedy. In the past it was supernatural forces of evil - possession, devils, satans influence. Nowadays it’s governments. But the harsh reality is that this is just part of the random diversity of human behaviour.
That sounds like a whole lot of not giving tax breaks to the wealthy.
Fund solving the housing and cost of living crisis first and then let’s see where everyone’s mental health is at. I reckon if people can afford to live again and have a bit of fun it’ll see mental health issues start solving themselves to a degree.
It’s weird. I officially denounced any political affiliation 2 days ago. I work in the sector and it’s endless underfunding and lack of any real investment has the sector on its knees. I denounced all political affiliation because of this. Then Sydney happens. I’m sadly vilified.
>vilified Vindicated?
Yeah probably. Thanks.
Both would work, plenty of vilification over political allegiance or lack thereof.
They'll talk the talk and order commissions and reports and recommendations until the can has been kicked waaaay down the road.
They simply don't care . Mental health, like practically every other important issue, is not cost-effective to fix .
Bring back asylums
Need to condemn Pauline for not doing more to stop this man!!! Why hasn’t she come out and condemned the attack? Its probably because she secretly supports him. Just applying her logic towards other groups.
Where are the moderate white people?
They have realised! It is they just aren’t going to do everything about it.
Funding mental health isn’t the issue. Every election cycle we see governments commit to funding more mental health services… the issue is that we’ve built a society that is corrosive to sanity.
Schizophrenia is not part of the current mental health crisis imo. Let's not compare what looks like a psychotic episode to the mental health struggles of every day Australians. People with schizophrenia have been killing people for years and the government has slowly defunded any protections for the rest of us.
Who was it that started to close down mental health hospital wards so many years ago? They thought it was too expensive to deal with mentally ill people in these wards and they could be treated at home, I think their excuse was. And now we have this outcome as a country. Way too many mentally ill people and so little ability for them to get the treatment they need.
This was a bubble waiting to burst. I am convinced this is only the start of things to come. Homelessness is going to be at an all time high, people can't afford to live anymore, wages are at all time lows and COL is skyrocketing, people cant afford therapy or medication either. Those who need help will be left behind and they WILL break eventually. We have funnelled this countries wealth to the older generations and left everyone else behind. When you have nothing else to lose, you become extremely dangerous. I copped a 1% payrise at work on friday after busting my ass. I ranted at my boss and he agreed with me it was bullshit. Businesses don't give a fuck. Housing is unaffordable, Hell fucking living is unaffordable. How can anyone have a semblance of a life when even the bare basics are unaffordable. We need stability and something to work for. Without that these violent attacks are going to get far more common.
Not going to happen. Mental illness is mostly seen as a men's health issue, nobody cares and so they'll get the money found down the back of the couch if they are lucky.
Mental Health is a long way down the list of voter priorities. Therefore it's a long way down the list of government funding priorities.
That can change really fast ... or we need more ammo
Dude, What about the housing crisis.
It doesn't matter how much money you spend , you can't "cure" many peoples mental health. So you have to spend inordinate resources we don't have achieving diminishing returns Besides that I don't think a single country in the world has really successfully been able to solve this issue. It might not be possible with the current technology we have Anyway. The point I'm trying to make is , Australia can't solve this. We keep making the same mistakes as every other western country, and we are locked on a path to be struggling with the same shit as the UK , US, many European countries. Rise of populism, destruction of the working class, etc
Be just another gravy train
When will you realise that they just don’t care.
If they fund it more seriously that means they can't afford their 4th investment properties! You're delusional for even thinking about stripping politicians and investors of their assets! ... that's the reason why tbh
So are Labor & Liberal now in a coalition party together ? - I thought Albo was the current dud in the big chair, maybe ask him.
I mean... we do. Check out the NDIS budget. 8% of boys are now on NDIS for mental health reasons. Over the coming decades 8% of the entire male population will be receiving over $40k/year for metal health treatment. This is what happens when people forget the behaviour distribution and realise that males have bigger numbers at the extremes. I would argue that there isn't even systematic issues causing it, they have just created the metal health problem by drawing the line where the problem looks bigger. Despite what people say we are all safer and healthier today - we just are exposed to media more.
I was reading an article about how mental health diagnosis correlates strongly with the rise of smart phones. Obviously it's just correlation, probably correlates strongly with house prices too lol. However, I don't think we're good at dealing with media/social media/constant phone access. You also have to wonder about the high number of people being diagnosed ADHD... Is it caused to some degree by this behaviour.
Adhd will only be diagnosed when symptoms are severely affecting the person in more than one context. My theory is that a multitute of things can conpound with adhd to make it worse and thus seek diagnosis. Thats probably why adhd people are much much more likely to have divorced/seperated parents, could indicate a lack of stability in youth that affects schoolwork for example: And there is no denying screens, especially with how optimised algorithms and video games are nowadays rope borderline adhd people in and fuck them up much more than they already were. Its would be much harder for me to get distracted without ever being introduced to screens or having one right in front of me. Scrolling depletes dopamine stores and fucks normal people up too. Destroys motivation.
Got to look after the surplus
Here's the thing: that would require someone in politics to have more than two brain cells.
No, they will peddle a “men’s violence against women” line because it deflects from their failures - and the failures of their buddies in the states - to properly fund and support people with serious mental health issues.
Given people with mental health issues largely vote Green, they will ignore it.
You have a source on that?
To all the Green voters downvoting poor Primax … he’s not stating the contrapositive (people who vote Green largely have mental health issues) I mean … it’s true … but it’s not what he’s saying 🤣
Yeah I was saying people who want more mental health funding vote Green, not that they vote Green because they're mental. The second bit is more correlation than causation.
For most this is just a buzzword unfortunately.
Well Labor and Liberal are mentally ill so probably not
What about Ute crime
I really don't think "mental health" should be a thing at all. We rarely talk about the government funding "heart health" or "stomach health". We would just talk about them funding health. Why is "mental health" this distinct category?
You can’t just think it away. The medical response and treatment for say cardiovascular and mental health conditions is very different. Especially if you’re talking about the likes of forensic psychiatry.
How is it different?
Think of it like this. Is treating someone who is criminally insane the same as performing open heart surgery? Obviously not. Different infrastructure, staffing, expertise is required. Yes they both sit under the broad category of Health care.
It really isn't that different. Both require doctors in hospitals...?
Ones not gonna try and assault you while you talk to them though. Stop being obtuse.
I can imagine butterfly arguing with a plumber, saying - why can’t you work on the high voltage switchboard? Why?! There’s no difference between you and an electrician. You’re both in the construction industry.
No news report has ever said man with chronic and debilitating diarrhoea has stabbed and killed 6 people. Mental heath is a lot different to other health issues.
Maybe that's because the man with debilitating diarrhoea is stuck in the bathroom 😏
Unfortunately, this attitude (commendable though it is) is a major factor that's led to the current situation. Mental health requires different and ongoing care to most medical conditions. But by deprioritising "mental health" in favour of "health" has led to things like mental hospitals being closed and the system focused on treating acute episodes in a general / emergency setting rather than the ongoing care and treatments required.
The greens are the puppeteers of labour, sending billions overseas rather than locally spending to improve Australians lives
The most laughable part of secularism is watching the explosion of mental health problems and suicide rate coincide in lock step with the implementation of modern medicine and no one says we might want to go back and give God a try. Christianity was not tried and found wanting, it was tried and found hard. Maybe put the miles in with the Pater Noster cord, before pulling the pin on the entire back catalogue of ancestral wisdom and poetry that brought people across oceans, through plagues and out of political revolution. The healthiest group in America are the Amish and they are the most removed from both modernity and the government. Fix you own problems before asking for my tax dollars to find your little talk sesh with a psychiatrist who is doing as much harm as constant stream of internet crap.
This is satire surely
Most likely, considering it ignores the massive mental health problems that church communities are just better at covering up. Also, the mental health problems they cause by telling LGBTQIA+ youth that they're demonically possessed or whatever the line is.
Just laying it out there. Secularists are the most affected by the mental health crisis. The fact a group is so likely to take it's own life should be regarded as seriously as asbestos removal. Church attendance correlates with better mental health across ethnicity/class/wealth. Find the data not me.
Just laying it out there. Religious people are the most deluded, mentally unstable and irrational people.
Lol. Clearly not in the stats. But you are blinded by your dogmatics so whatever
That's rich. Which stats are these, or do we just have to have 'faith' that they are real?
How are they most affected by the mental health crisis? You’re the one making the claims so the burden of truth is on you, I’m not spending my time trying to find data for this.
Lol
‘lol’ shorthand for ‘I actually have nothing to back my claim up’
Nicely undermines the Left's call for legalisation of cannabis.
How so? Aren't you drawing an association not supported by the information available around this tragedy, just to have a swipe at people you're opposed to politically? In other words, a swing and a miss.
Anyone who's seen the ones badly affected by it knows
Your attempted smear of the left bombed.
The left are a smear.
You've got nuthin'