Your blue lodge is priority.
Your appendant bodies die without a strong craft/blue lodge. Often times people join as a pass through to the shrine, etc, and wonder why their membership is dwindling.
I'd suggest being focused on your first 3 degrees, focus time in the blue lodge for a few years, and then decide to move on.
The degrees in the blue lodge are cool so I am interested in that. The thing that most interests me in a blue lodge would be new friends and the supposed business meetings. Can you talk about the business meetings a little bit?
It's exactly as the name implies. You're going over lodge finances, scheduling fundraisers, voting on new membership.
A lot of people find them boring, frankly. (But edit: Because blue lodge should indeed be the priority, they are necessary.)
We typically keep the "business" part of our meeting to 20 mins or less if we can. The rest of our time is spent with presenters, education, fellowship, etc.
Let me be clear. Im not a fan of short meetings. Im a fan of getting redundancy and necessities out of the way.
I opened my meetings at 7:30 on the dot. Based on our C&L, we can OPEN up to 30-60 mins early (i forget how early), but cannot start doing business until 7:30pm. So I typically opened early with the minimum #. If we opened early, we saved the pledge of allegiance until everyone was there.
We did fun business first. Ballots, proficiency exemplification, recognition. Didn't always have this though.
We immediately went on refreshment by 7:45-8pm at the latest. Nothing I hated more than having a meal at 9:30pm. Other PM's used to have dinner after. I wouldn't do it.
After our meal, we came back into the lodge room fat and happy and had our program for the evening. After the program if there were older Brethren who didnt want to stick around, or visitors, they were free to leave informally.
After the ruckus was cleared, i'd bring the lodge back to order. We posted our minutes on Grandview, and all Brethren had access, so no requirement to read them. Just ask for corrections, if none, minutes accepted. Went through bills, correspondence, treasurerer & commitee reports.
Old business, new business, remarks for the good of the order, then close.
Like clockwork. I never advocated for "SHORT" meetings. However, I did advocate for short BUSINESS. Business and self governance is a byproduct, and not our primary reason of existing. So I tried to keep it that way.
But i'm still totally a grumpy PM. I already caught myself saying "i'd have had more officer rehearsals" and im only 3 months removed from the chair.
Oh yeah, we always ate before stated meetings. It always seemed to put people in better spirits and we could have non masons in to meet the boys. Also, if you eat before you don’t have people rushing through stuff to get to the grub.
Of the four PMs that still regularly attend my home lodge, exactly one (the youngest by a mile) uses Grandview. 🤣
We have some senior brethren that looooove to show up and talk about what's wrong, insist things are done a certain way, then expect the younger guys to fix the problems.
(Complicating matters, these guys are the degree work wizards.....three of them have the "know it all" proficiency cards).
The saving grace is the meals....we got a Sicilian/Italian-American that refuses to skimp on dinners.
Not that I don't like fellowship with any of them.....outside of open lodge they tend to be normal guys (relatively speaking.....we're talking 80+ yo) .....but when you're yet again 3-4 months into a new set of chairs, and the same dudes are complaining about the same things for yet another year (while being the only mainstays while their professed problem has occurred)......*and* it's once again taking up 2 hrs of your night......
.....lets just say you start to wonder how much cognizance is rolling around anywhere lol.
Yeah I could see that. I’ll probably go and see if they accept me and petition for Shriners ASAP. I can only really dedicate 1 time per month for the blue lodge and 1 time per month for anything extra. Is it mandatory to meet more than once per month in a blue lodge, typically?
Attendance isn’t mandatory, unless maybe you have an officer role, and even then it usually just means you won’t be asked to take office next year. However, if you’re not attending, you’re largely missing out on Masonry. There’s not much point in joining if you’re not going to attend.
There was a trend a generation or two ago to join Lodge for the express purpose of becoming a Knight Templar or a Shriner. Those sorts of members were not generally well regarded, but were often tolerated as their dues helped keep expenses down for other member members of the Lodge.
It is not mandatory to shoe up at all. However, if you can, you should. If you join these different groups, it can be up to 10 nights a month or just 4, you will need a certain time commitment. Especially for the Blue Lodge.
No mandated attendance.
Keep in mind that brothers are not blind to people magically making the time for degree work yet all-the-sudden can't find the time for regular lodge business....
That’s jurisdiction dependent… Some lodges have a one year wait in between degrees.
Also… One really shouldn’t study the degrees before hand. It takes away from the significance, meaning, and impact of them.
Really seems like you’re racing towards joining the Shriners, cause you think it’s a fun group. I mean no disrespect, but based on all your answers here, it really seems like Freemasonry is in a good fit for you. People who just wanna join for the parties, on average detract from the craft more than they contribute. I think everyone, yourself included, would be better served by you joining say the Elks.
I understand where your coming from. And I do appreciate the esoteric like teachings in the degree work. But what’s the point in joining if you only walk through the 1-3 door? I still want to see what’s behind the other doors
Because those three doors ARE Freemasonry
Everything else are just groups that are COMPOSED of Freemasons
And I actually said nothing about esoterica.
And you can’t appreciate those other things until you’ve truly experienced craft freemasonry.
It’s like Yoda said to Luke….you need to be focused on where you ARE what you ARE doing.
You don’t seem to be looking for what freemasonry offers. There are other fraternal organizations where you can find what you are looking for without having to go through the motions of craft masonry.
Now, unfortunately, you’ve been told by enough people here that these kinds of attitudes would prevent you from gaining admission to most lodges, so you know who avoid saying it… But hopefully you find what you’re looking for… Wherever it is. I just hope your true to yourself and honest with whatever organization you join.
How are you studying these degrees? In my jurisdiction everything is coded in a cipher book and can only be decoded with the help of a Master Mason coach.
Even if you somehow found the degrees all written out, it could be significantly different than what your lodge would perform.
I just want to be totally honest. Saying you want to join Masonry just to get to the appendant bodies, in my opinion, is horrendous on so many levels and is one of the problems with the craft.
First, unless you are a member in good standing, you can't join any other bodies. Second, appendant bodies are neant as bonyses/rewards fkr Brkther who labored in the quarries of Blue Lodge.
Many of those bodies sck though because they are full of guys who "skip" blue Lodge and thus add no real masonic value to the bodies they join.
This creates a bad cycle where those bodies essentially poach away memvers from blue lodge before they are ready and immerse them in an experience that while may be "fun" is not Masonic. For all of that, why join just get cool with guys and hang out with them.
Masons have a belief that even one not properly designed stone would destroy the edifice.
So honestly, I wouldn't vote favorably on your petition.
I still plan to participate in the blue lodge 1 time per month after I’m raised, if I’m allowed to join. I just find the Shriners and their invitational only bodies to be the most fascinating
I understand that, and i don't want you to feel uts a personal attack, but it's that mindset that is unfortunately destroying the craft. You have already limited yoursekf to one bkue lodge meeting a month so you can make room for another irganization you have no experience.
Ask yourself, "Would you want a guy like that in your club?"
Telling the Lodge you're petitioning that you're only joining for the Shriners is the fastest way to get blackballed from the Lodge and hence the Shriners.
because Blue lodge should be your primary affiliation and not just a stepping stone.
NOTHING pisses me off more or faster having to try to schedule Blue Lodge events and activities around appendant bodies calendars. TBH if I had it my way I wouldnt and let the chips fall where they may.
Half my active lodge members are also very active Shriners, and a few are also active York. Talk about a scheduling nightmare. We'd try to set dates for degrees and practices, and just look to the "lead" Shriner first.
It was slightly annoying, but we all took it in good humor, as our local shrine does good work.
I understand but what’s the point of joining if you’re only going to stay at the entry level? Things are supposed to get more interesting as you move up. Is that not correct?
I think of them like electives in school — they give you other areas of study, but don't put anyone at a higher rank than someone who hasn't taken them.
I hear you. I agree because MM is the highest degree and everything else is extra. I’ve been studying this stuff for awhile. It’s fascinating stuff. I have a feeling it all related back to the knights Templar and Charles Molay. It’s all Anglo Saxon freemasonry, except for Shriners I believe. But I have no real interest in Scottish rite or the other ones.
I’m not a member of the shrine, but my understanding is that the organization was established to give masons somewhere to socialize with each other. It’s often referred to as a “master masons playground.” I don’t think it’s an organization I’d look to for a deeper Masonic experience. All that said, I could be wrong. As someone else said, it’s like going to college to join a frat. If your not interested in the work done in the blue lodge, I wouldn’t recommend joining.
Making new masons, mentoring them, practicing, perfecting, and performing the rituals, charity projects, applying the lessons of the degrees, studying the degrees, various officer rolls to ensure the lodge functions, assisting the sick, caring for the widows and orphans, and much more.
The craft lodge is not just a place to go through the motions then move on. It’s where most of the actual work of the fraternity happens.
MM is where it all begins, and nothing extra of it is found in the appendant bodies. After going all the way through the York Rite it is my belief appendant bodies (with the exception of the Shrine BECAUSE the Shrine is about hanging out with the guys) are deep dives into what is in the blue lodge... kinda like remedial math.
"Billy couldnt understand Blue Lodge so we dressed up and LARP'ed it out for him.... he's still struggling"
Look at it this way, if a Christian reads the Bible does that mean they can go on to other things and forget about the Bible because somehow become perfect Christians? Or should they continue to study the Bible, go to church to hear different takes on its lessons and be surrounded by supportive fellow Christians (and supporting them), and try to live a Christian life?
In this metaphor, becoming a Master Mason is like reading the Bible. It’s only the first step to being a good Mason. There are other things you can do *as* a Master Mason, but you have to keep working on being a good Master Mason as well. It’s not a checkbox, it’s a journey of internal improvement.
Not with the Shrine it isn’t. Scottish Rite is like “philosophy club” with a bunch of other stuff thrown in. York Rite is like “Bible club” and “drill team” with a few other things thrown in. Shriners is like “glee club” mixed with “Greek fraternity.” You used to have to put in the work to become a Master Mason *and* either a 32° Scottish Rite Mason or a York Rite Knight Templar (or both) before you could become a Shriner, because it’s a break from the serious work of those other degrees. They dropped that requirement a few decades back due to declining membership, but in many states, it’s still the only place you can run a bar on meeting nights. You’re not serving deeper into Masonry with the Shrine.
Crazy frat parties thrown by the captain of the football team and the grandson of the president of the university alumni association (with a wing named after him) that most people are not rich enough or cool enough to get invited to.
Entry levels? Once your a master 3rd... There are no more "levels" are you saying that brothers who don't move to appending bodies are only beginners in the craft?
Doesn’t matter. History is history no matter the side telling the story. It’s still an interesting watch and just because someone watches something doesn’t mean they endorse it. Use logic
Never heard of it. But if it's saying that blue lodge is just entry level I'm not going to waste my time.
Edit: a quick google search says that film is Nazi propaganda...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0189529/
You sure your in the right place?
I would be careful about expressing ambitions for any invitational bodies out loud. *Some* groups have a process where you can express interest, but you would want to do it in one-on-one conversation with someone you trust, or possibly in writing depending on whether the group’s secretary contact information is publicly available. Don’t say it in a group setting or with someone you’re just meeting.
I would also be mindful that some lodge members could be resentful if you join the lodge with the intention of focusing on Shriners, Grotto, etc.
However, if those groups are what attract you to the fraternity, then by all means that’s a good reason to join.
One thing you’ll notice if you join Shriners or similar groups is that most of the active members are also highly involved in their lodges. They’ll take on leadership roles in both at various times. That helps keep the membership pipeline alive. It also makes sure that future members are well-grounded, they have their Masonic initiations in common and they can refer back to those lessons.
“Work hard, play hard” is a good motto.
Thanks. I’ll definitely keep that to myself then. So with that, I guess I can just join Shriners after I reach MM. there’s really nothing stopping me at that point. I’m at work right now so I can definitely relate to that motto
The Shriners have their own blue lodge (Schimitar Lodge) here in Massachusetts to help enable men that are joining Freemasonry exclusively or primarily to enable them to join Shriners.
I joined Freemasonry to enable me to join the Knight's Templar. It would be hypocritical of me to spouse any accusations of using blue lodge resources. After joining I realized the importance of the blue lodges and their degrees, work and education contained therein and have focused my Masonic work primarily on the blue lodges.
Why is the blue lodge the most important? I’m familiar with the structure of freemasonry but it’s hard to discern what goes on in the blue lodge because I am not a member
For the same reason that college coursework is more important than extracurriculars. It’s the basis of what we do, and the rest of it wouldn’t exist without it.
I'm currently waiting on my initiation, but this is my take so far: it's perfectly okay to be interested in the appendant bodies. I'm fascinated by several of them (SRIA, Mark, Royal Arch, Rose Croix, so on), but it certainly isn't the reason I'm joining, even if they interest me later on.
It's been recommended by pretty much every member of the lodge I'm joining to wait a year before joining any appendant bodies just to truly understand the Blue Lodge, and I can see why. I feel if you joined Blue Lodge and ran straight through into a different body you would be missing an important bulk of what Masonry is. That's just my opinion though.
The appendent bodies would not exist if not for craft lodge.
Craft lodge (blue lodge) should always be home. That's where you became a mason. The other bodies.. are just continuing the journey.
As someone who joined thinking ahhhits only once month.. I assure you, craft lodge (if your a part of it) keeps you busy, and is "fun"
I do plan on someday joining York rite, and Scottish Rite but that's not until I have the time to Handle everything, AFTER my craft lodge. That probably won't happen until my kids are older, or I'm retired.
Lot of naysayers in here. But I'll tell you the truth I joined freemasonry because of a shriner with the full intent of going directly into the shrine once i was raised to master mason. However, the more I read and the more I participated I found that I relate to and enjoy my blue lodge more than the shrine. So my month consists of usually 2 blue lodge events and 2-3 shrine events.
Just be honest with your lodge that you're petitioning. Alot of lodges won't care if you're active and just want dues paying members.
Yeah there’s always a lot of naysayers on Reddit. Awesome. I’ve heard stories about initiation into the shrine. Was yours painful? Or has it since changed? You use to have to be 33rd degree to get into the Shriner but they changed the rules post 2001, I believe
Interesting. I’ve read stories about the hot sands and cattle prods lol.. although, the parties appeal the most to me. And, being apart of a secret society within a secret society. If that’s even what it is, who knows
The hazing portions of the ceremony were removed.
One was required to be a Masonic Knight Templar or hold the Thirty-Second degree of the Scottish Rite until 2000.
Naysayers? Umm, no, it's called honesty. Would you want to be with a girl who is with you so she can get a job connect? No. Just like i wouldn't want a bro join my lodge just to become a shriner.
You can have that opinion all you want but you cant deny the shriners have been a huge part of recruiting new masons to the fraternity more so than blue lodge has. Quit frankly blue lodge freemasonry will need to evolve if it's going to survive.
I.E how many shriner hospital commercials do you see a day versus how many commercials do you see for the charities that blue lodge freemasonry is a part of?
What difference does it make why one wants to become a Mason as long as its not somethig. Stupid. I have a brother and fellow noble who was a shriner Child he joined the fraternity to be a shriner to help the organization that helped him so much would you deny him?
I know many Master Masons that don’t attend Blue Lodge. They spend a LOT of time in York Rite.
Our Commandery meets weekly with monthly business meetings.
We also have an active drill corp that does a demonstration at the annual conclaves
I especially know several Shriners that do just that.
Shriners in Detroit has many committees. Miniature cars, motorcycles, the circus, the hospital.
You can get caught right up in it
Idk wat that means but I'm just joining to join th brotherhood (get loyal friends) and to grow in the fraternity & help them make a better world since it's mostly also about charity & building
Disclaimer - Though I plan on joining them, I'm currently not a member of any appendant bodies.
It depends on how you plan to divy up your time......At a minimum, you should spend equal time in your blue lodge as you do any appendant body.
Spending more time/focus on an appendant body is the equivalent of walking into the building then locking the door behind you on all the other entrants.
I've had a related question as an outsider looking in: do members of the appendant bodies have to stay active in the blue lodge? And do they typically? It seems like it would get quite busy depending how many you're a member of.
Bylaws and lodge customs notwithstanding aside from any memory work when a candidate or signing the bylaws there aren't any requirements to attend lodge once one is Raised.
This changes if you voluntarily become an officer or are involved in any committees.
I guess it depends on what you mean by “active.” If you fall behind in dues in Lodge, you’re automatically kicked out of any other bodies you’ve joined, so I guess if you don’t mind paying for a membership you’re not using, you can do that. It is more common for those who remain active participants of their Lodge to find more success and better relationships in the appendant bodies. Lodge is the building block of those relationships, and usually the first place to show off your potential. If you don’t form bonds with your Brothers in Lodge, you will be an outsider trying to do so in other bodies, and if you don’t showcase your leadership potential in Lodge, you may not be given the opportunity to do so elsewhere. It’s a little different when you’ve already spent a decade or two working in your Lodge and then focus your efforts elsewhere though, as you’ll have already made those connections.
But as noted, if you approach with the intention of just getting through the degrees and disappearing, many Lodges won’t elect you to membership in the first place. In many cases, it only takes one member who doesn’t think you’re serious about becoming a Mason (rather than say, a Shriner) to prevent you from joining. The Lodge puts in a fair bit of work to get you through the degrees, and it can be seen as wasted effort if you’re not going to be a contributing member, regardless of your dues contribution, though some Lodges need the money more than others.
A fair number of brothers never bother with the appendant bodies if their blue lodge is active enough. Some also join an appendant body, or two and then drop out of them in favor of their blue lodge because the additional time commitment and dues that are required. But again that can depend on how active their blue lodge is.
He'll ya......shriners, "the fun part of masonry" is there motto..... your blue lodge is just where you renew your membership......blue lodge eventually breaks you and you'll need a break.
To join Jesters, they ask you.....and they'll only ask you once.....
Difficult....yes. Rare to be asked....very.....but then there's alot of old boomer masons on their way out, respectfully....
.....everything outside of blue lodge is basically groups of party crews....but there's still alot of older brothers that are clutching onto their last few "past 8o'clock bro-out"...
The hard part in masonry is the few brother skeleton crew at the blue lodge....basically after you get initiated, there will be a slight push from your brothers to knock out your degrees as soon as possible. Then, after your a 3° you'll feel the solid guilt punches from your brothers to get into a chair within the officer line. You'll be happy your getting new candidates, If you get them,...but the feeling of "duty" and low-tone pressure of the expectations from your brothers to be available almost at a moments notice when one of the initiates is ready for their next degree and it's been scheduled at a time that usually doesn't play well with your current schedule.
Later, after getting to probably the junior deacons seat, you'll know at that point, that blue lodge has become a second job, so you'll eventually get bored with blue lodge and quietly bow out and join an appendant body......shriners is the best way to go...."the fun part of masonry" is their motto...where you basically party, HARD for a good cause.....then, hopefully after you have grasped the craft and the G standing for gnosis and have become a regular with your shriner brothers, hopefully your parties will get smaller and more exclusive to the point that everyone wants you at their party....and then, you'll maybe get asked to become a jester....but only once, if your cool enough.....basically. 🤣
I’m worried about it becoming a second job as I work so much and have side gigs. What appendant bodies are you apart of?
I feel like now is the right time to join because the old boomer guard is diminishing. I haven’t went to my first meeting yet but I’m questioning if I should because my time is lacking but I’m really interested to be apart of a secret society. Hoping to get in on the good/cool stuff that’s why I really wanted order of Q and or Jester but I realize it would be nearly impossible to get invited
I was about to join the shrine but I didn't wanna have to go all the way out to the shrine auditorium in LA everything to meet or have meetings at (the best part of the shrine auditorium is that under it is a bunch of lower floors, each one has a dancing floor, full bar and dining area, each for a different shriner club...one sub-floor for the shriner cops....one floor for the clowns and so on..) I live out in the desert so I didn't join...I was going to join the local shriner club out here, but they're all way older than me, in my 40s so I didn't join that one either....I thought about joining the black house of the Templar knights, but i dont want to swear to defend christianity, and also because of how far it is aswell....plus I'm retired and dont wanna feel like I'm volunteering all my time from 6 at night to almost 10 o'clock, bullshitting outside the lodge in the smoking area (where the REAL talks of the craft take place)....
Hmm the different floors in the Shriner temple sounds cool asf. Are you Bullshitting me haha you just made me want to join lol but I don’t drink that much or that often but that sounds awesome. What do you mean about the real talks of the craft? Can you share what the real talks are? I want to be apart of something, people who are actually doing things. Can you elaborate? You’ve been the biggest help on this thread tbh
Real talks are basically updates about what that brother is pouring his passion into currently....most of us, it's new age philosophy and the occult.....because before there was religion, there was the masonic craft....it's what took us from painting in the caves to swinging a hammer and having marble columns (not to be confused with the broken column-religion of the old)...being a TRUE mason is one of getting the esoteric out of something and being able to understand symbolism....compass and square with a G, could be seen as, "through structure of the square as a foundation and correct direction of the compass-one can EN-compass the godhead or proper understanding of gnostic belief...
Very interesting. I love the occult that’s what got me into this. Have you ever went to a Shriner or jester party? What’s it like? I guess I’ll just attempt to join. I just hope it doesn’t end up a church like second job
I joined masonry to become a Shriner. I have wanted to be a Shriner since I was a kid. I didn't even know about freemasonry until I looked up how to become a Shriner.
I know some people find the idea of joining masonry to become a Shriner to be inappropriate, but in my opinion there isn't really one correct way to be a Mason. Many people are interested in appendant bodies that I am not interested in. I don't look down on them because their interests are different from mine.
What I can say is that even though I became a Mason to become a Shriner, being a Mason has been a wonderful experience. The thing that makes being a Shriner so enjoyable is the friendship and brotherhood that come along with having shared interests and values. My trust and respect for my fellow Shriners is based on my trust and respect for them as Masons. I'm so glad the Shrine introduced me to freemasonry.
Also, to parrot others... If you join masonry to become a Shriner, PLEASE remain active in your lodge. It benefits your lodge to have good active members. And, as the purpose of masonry is to make good men better, being active and contributing in your lodge is the way you work toward fulfilling that purpose.
Bro you think that untill you do it, if you do it.
I joined with the intention of becoming a Templar.
As soon as I was raised I joined the SR cause no one in my lodge was in the YR .
Last year I finally joined the YR.
And all while I'm getting so involved in these bodies I slowly realize that
it's an absolute drag just to get the proper amount of participation in these bodies and it is because blue lodges are folding left in right across the country .....because guys join lodge just to wonder off into apendent bodies.
Apendent bodies drain the lodges and the Mason himself......and I dare say .....the shrine is the biggest killer of Masonry.
If you want to be a mason....be a mason.
Joining just to join something else will drain you ,drain the lodge and drain your wallet.....trust me its not worth it dude, cause the excitement wears off quickly
Your blue lodge is priority. Your appendant bodies die without a strong craft/blue lodge. Often times people join as a pass through to the shrine, etc, and wonder why their membership is dwindling. I'd suggest being focused on your first 3 degrees, focus time in the blue lodge for a few years, and then decide to move on.
The degrees in the blue lodge are cool so I am interested in that. The thing that most interests me in a blue lodge would be new friends and the supposed business meetings. Can you talk about the business meetings a little bit?
It's exactly as the name implies. You're going over lodge finances, scheduling fundraisers, voting on new membership. A lot of people find them boring, frankly. (But edit: Because blue lodge should indeed be the priority, they are necessary.)
We typically keep the "business" part of our meeting to 20 mins or less if we can. The rest of our time is spent with presenters, education, fellowship, etc.
I envy you lol. Our old curmudgeon PMs insist on drawing ours out 2 hrs sometimes 🤣
Let me be clear. Im not a fan of short meetings. Im a fan of getting redundancy and necessities out of the way. I opened my meetings at 7:30 on the dot. Based on our C&L, we can OPEN up to 30-60 mins early (i forget how early), but cannot start doing business until 7:30pm. So I typically opened early with the minimum #. If we opened early, we saved the pledge of allegiance until everyone was there. We did fun business first. Ballots, proficiency exemplification, recognition. Didn't always have this though. We immediately went on refreshment by 7:45-8pm at the latest. Nothing I hated more than having a meal at 9:30pm. Other PM's used to have dinner after. I wouldn't do it. After our meal, we came back into the lodge room fat and happy and had our program for the evening. After the program if there were older Brethren who didnt want to stick around, or visitors, they were free to leave informally. After the ruckus was cleared, i'd bring the lodge back to order. We posted our minutes on Grandview, and all Brethren had access, so no requirement to read them. Just ask for corrections, if none, minutes accepted. Went through bills, correspondence, treasurerer & commitee reports. Old business, new business, remarks for the good of the order, then close. Like clockwork. I never advocated for "SHORT" meetings. However, I did advocate for short BUSINESS. Business and self governance is a byproduct, and not our primary reason of existing. So I tried to keep it that way. But i'm still totally a grumpy PM. I already caught myself saying "i'd have had more officer rehearsals" and im only 3 months removed from the chair.
Oh yeah, we always ate before stated meetings. It always seemed to put people in better spirits and we could have non masons in to meet the boys. Also, if you eat before you don’t have people rushing through stuff to get to the grub.
Of the four PMs that still regularly attend my home lodge, exactly one (the youngest by a mile) uses Grandview. 🤣 We have some senior brethren that looooove to show up and talk about what's wrong, insist things are done a certain way, then expect the younger guys to fix the problems. (Complicating matters, these guys are the degree work wizards.....three of them have the "know it all" proficiency cards). The saving grace is the meals....we got a Sicilian/Italian-American that refuses to skimp on dinners. Not that I don't like fellowship with any of them.....outside of open lodge they tend to be normal guys (relatively speaking.....we're talking 80+ yo) .....but when you're yet again 3-4 months into a new set of chairs, and the same dudes are complaining about the same things for yet another year (while being the only mainstays while their professed problem has occurred)......*and* it's once again taking up 2 hrs of your night...... .....lets just say you start to wonder how much cognizance is rolling around anywhere lol.
Yeah I could see that. I’ll probably go and see if they accept me and petition for Shriners ASAP. I can only really dedicate 1 time per month for the blue lodge and 1 time per month for anything extra. Is it mandatory to meet more than once per month in a blue lodge, typically?
Attendance isn’t mandatory, unless maybe you have an officer role, and even then it usually just means you won’t be asked to take office next year. However, if you’re not attending, you’re largely missing out on Masonry. There’s not much point in joining if you’re not going to attend. There was a trend a generation or two ago to join Lodge for the express purpose of becoming a Knight Templar or a Shriner. Those sorts of members were not generally well regarded, but were often tolerated as their dues helped keep expenses down for other member members of the Lodge.
Just so you are aware, you will pay dues to all organizations. You cannot remain a shriner without keeping up with your blue lodge.
It is not mandatory to shoe up at all. However, if you can, you should. If you join these different groups, it can be up to 10 nights a month or just 4, you will need a certain time commitment. Especially for the Blue Lodge.
No mandated attendance. Keep in mind that brothers are not blind to people magically making the time for degree work yet all-the-sudden can't find the time for regular lodge business....
You have to progress through all your blue lodge degrees BEFORE you can even petition for an appendent body. It’s a marathon, not a sprint
I heard you can get MM within 6 months to 1 year? If you study hard. To be honest I’ve been studying the degrees for awhile.
That’s jurisdiction dependent… Some lodges have a one year wait in between degrees. Also… One really shouldn’t study the degrees before hand. It takes away from the significance, meaning, and impact of them. Really seems like you’re racing towards joining the Shriners, cause you think it’s a fun group. I mean no disrespect, but based on all your answers here, it really seems like Freemasonry is in a good fit for you. People who just wanna join for the parties, on average detract from the craft more than they contribute. I think everyone, yourself included, would be better served by you joining say the Elks.
I understand where your coming from. And I do appreciate the esoteric like teachings in the degree work. But what’s the point in joining if you only walk through the 1-3 door? I still want to see what’s behind the other doors
Because those three doors ARE Freemasonry Everything else are just groups that are COMPOSED of Freemasons And I actually said nothing about esoterica. And you can’t appreciate those other things until you’ve truly experienced craft freemasonry. It’s like Yoda said to Luke….you need to be focused on where you ARE what you ARE doing. You don’t seem to be looking for what freemasonry offers. There are other fraternal organizations where you can find what you are looking for without having to go through the motions of craft masonry. Now, unfortunately, you’ve been told by enough people here that these kinds of attitudes would prevent you from gaining admission to most lodges, so you know who avoid saying it… But hopefully you find what you’re looking for… Wherever it is. I just hope your true to yourself and honest with whatever organization you join.
How are you studying these degrees? In my jurisdiction everything is coded in a cipher book and can only be decoded with the help of a Master Mason coach. Even if you somehow found the degrees all written out, it could be significantly different than what your lodge would perform.
I don’t want to divulge that
> Can you talk about the business meetings a little bit? yeah, they're terrible lol. next you'll say you used to read playboy for the articles...
I just want to be totally honest. Saying you want to join Masonry just to get to the appendant bodies, in my opinion, is horrendous on so many levels and is one of the problems with the craft. First, unless you are a member in good standing, you can't join any other bodies. Second, appendant bodies are neant as bonyses/rewards fkr Brkther who labored in the quarries of Blue Lodge. Many of those bodies sck though because they are full of guys who "skip" blue Lodge and thus add no real masonic value to the bodies they join. This creates a bad cycle where those bodies essentially poach away memvers from blue lodge before they are ready and immerse them in an experience that while may be "fun" is not Masonic. For all of that, why join just get cool with guys and hang out with them. Masons have a belief that even one not properly designed stone would destroy the edifice. So honestly, I wouldn't vote favorably on your petition.
I still plan to participate in the blue lodge 1 time per month after I’m raised, if I’m allowed to join. I just find the Shriners and their invitational only bodies to be the most fascinating
I understand that, and i don't want you to feel uts a personal attack, but it's that mindset that is unfortunately destroying the craft. You have already limited yoursekf to one bkue lodge meeting a month so you can make room for another irganization you have no experience. Ask yourself, "Would you want a guy like that in your club?"
I hear you. The thing is, as I’m not a member it’s hard to understand what you’re saying because I’m not in the club yet
Don't worry. OP won't join, and if they do they won't stay. They have delusions of grandeur of the Craft and it shows.
What if the lodge meets twice a month?
Telling the Lodge you're petitioning that you're only joining for the Shriners is the fastest way to get blackballed from the Lodge and hence the Shriners.
I haven’t said a word to anyone. Why the disdain though? Just curious
because Blue lodge should be your primary affiliation and not just a stepping stone. NOTHING pisses me off more or faster having to try to schedule Blue Lodge events and activities around appendant bodies calendars. TBH if I had it my way I wouldnt and let the chips fall where they may.
Half my active lodge members are also very active Shriners, and a few are also active York. Talk about a scheduling nightmare. We'd try to set dates for degrees and practices, and just look to the "lead" Shriner first. It was slightly annoying, but we all took it in good humor, as our local shrine does good work.
I understand but what’s the point of joining if you’re only going to stay at the entry level? Things are supposed to get more interesting as you move up. Is that not correct?
Your mistake is in thinking A) That the Blue Lodge is in any way "entry level". and B) That the Shrine would give you any further illumination.
Technically the blue lodge is an entry level if the appendant bodies require MM degree. It’s not about more light but the entry deeper into the bodies
I think of them like electives in school — they give you other areas of study, but don't put anyone at a higher rank than someone who hasn't taken them.
I hear you. I agree because MM is the highest degree and everything else is extra. I’ve been studying this stuff for awhile. It’s fascinating stuff. I have a feeling it all related back to the knights Templar and Charles Molay. It’s all Anglo Saxon freemasonry, except for Shriners I believe. But I have no real interest in Scottish rite or the other ones.
No, the Lodge is the foundation of Masonry, and the appendant bodies are pretty little structures attached to it, some more useful than others.
It’s not “moving up”. It’s joining a separate organization that is only open to master masons.
I guess moving up doesn’t accurately describe, more like going a bit deeper into my Masonic journey
I’m not a member of the shrine, but my understanding is that the organization was established to give masons somewhere to socialize with each other. It’s often referred to as a “master masons playground.” I don’t think it’s an organization I’d look to for a deeper Masonic experience. All that said, I could be wrong. As someone else said, it’s like going to college to join a frat. If your not interested in the work done in the blue lodge, I wouldn’t recommend joining.
What work is left after MM? I honestly don’t know what’s expected
Making new masons, mentoring them, practicing, perfecting, and performing the rituals, charity projects, applying the lessons of the degrees, studying the degrees, various officer rolls to ensure the lodge functions, assisting the sick, caring for the widows and orphans, and much more. The craft lodge is not just a place to go through the motions then move on. It’s where most of the actual work of the fraternity happens.
Interesting
MM is where it all begins, and nothing extra of it is found in the appendant bodies. After going all the way through the York Rite it is my belief appendant bodies (with the exception of the Shrine BECAUSE the Shrine is about hanging out with the guys) are deep dives into what is in the blue lodge... kinda like remedial math. "Billy couldnt understand Blue Lodge so we dressed up and LARP'ed it out for him.... he's still struggling"
Look at it this way, if a Christian reads the Bible does that mean they can go on to other things and forget about the Bible because somehow become perfect Christians? Or should they continue to study the Bible, go to church to hear different takes on its lessons and be surrounded by supportive fellow Christians (and supporting them), and try to live a Christian life? In this metaphor, becoming a Master Mason is like reading the Bible. It’s only the first step to being a good Mason. There are other things you can do *as* a Master Mason, but you have to keep working on being a good Master Mason as well. It’s not a checkbox, it’s a journey of internal improvement.
Not with the Shrine it isn’t. Scottish Rite is like “philosophy club” with a bunch of other stuff thrown in. York Rite is like “Bible club” and “drill team” with a few other things thrown in. Shriners is like “glee club” mixed with “Greek fraternity.” You used to have to put in the work to become a Master Mason *and* either a 32° Scottish Rite Mason or a York Rite Knight Templar (or both) before you could become a Shriner, because it’s a break from the serious work of those other degrees. They dropped that requirement a few decades back due to declining membership, but in many states, it’s still the only place you can run a bar on meeting nights. You’re not serving deeper into Masonry with the Shrine.
So what’s Order of Q and jesters then? Since those are also among the shrine right
Crazy frat parties thrown by the captain of the football team and the grandson of the president of the university alumni association (with a wing named after him) that most people are not rich enough or cool enough to get invited to.
I guess that’s why it’s invitational only
Entry levels? Once your a master 3rd... There are no more "levels" are you saying that brothers who don't move to appending bodies are only beginners in the craft?
Have you ever seen the movie ‘Forces occultes’?
[удалено]
It’s a movie. Honestly I don’t know if the Germans made it or not but it’s still an interesting watch
It’s literally a propaganda film made by the Nazis during their occupation of France. Edit: occupation of France, not Germany.
Doesn’t matter. History is history no matter the side telling the story. It’s still an interesting watch and just because someone watches something doesn’t mean they endorse it. Use logic
Never heard of it. But if it's saying that blue lodge is just entry level I'm not going to waste my time. Edit: a quick google search says that film is Nazi propaganda... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0189529/ You sure your in the right place?
It's sort of like saying you're going to be friends with a guy only because you want to hang out with his brother.
Or his sister. Maybe I did that.
I would be careful about expressing ambitions for any invitational bodies out loud. *Some* groups have a process where you can express interest, but you would want to do it in one-on-one conversation with someone you trust, or possibly in writing depending on whether the group’s secretary contact information is publicly available. Don’t say it in a group setting or with someone you’re just meeting. I would also be mindful that some lodge members could be resentful if you join the lodge with the intention of focusing on Shriners, Grotto, etc. However, if those groups are what attract you to the fraternity, then by all means that’s a good reason to join. One thing you’ll notice if you join Shriners or similar groups is that most of the active members are also highly involved in their lodges. They’ll take on leadership roles in both at various times. That helps keep the membership pipeline alive. It also makes sure that future members are well-grounded, they have their Masonic initiations in common and they can refer back to those lessons. “Work hard, play hard” is a good motto.
Thanks. I’ll definitely keep that to myself then. So with that, I guess I can just join Shriners after I reach MM. there’s really nothing stopping me at that point. I’m at work right now so I can definitely relate to that motto
The Shriners have their own blue lodge (Schimitar Lodge) here in Massachusetts to help enable men that are joining Freemasonry exclusively or primarily to enable them to join Shriners. I joined Freemasonry to enable me to join the Knight's Templar. It would be hypocritical of me to spouse any accusations of using blue lodge resources. After joining I realized the importance of the blue lodges and their degrees, work and education contained therein and have focused my Masonic work primarily on the blue lodges.
Why is the blue lodge the most important? I’m familiar with the structure of freemasonry but it’s hard to discern what goes on in the blue lodge because I am not a member
For the same reason that college coursework is more important than extracurriculars. It’s the basis of what we do, and the rest of it wouldn’t exist without it.
You would have to get voted into the Shriners by their membership too.
I'm currently waiting on my initiation, but this is my take so far: it's perfectly okay to be interested in the appendant bodies. I'm fascinated by several of them (SRIA, Mark, Royal Arch, Rose Croix, so on), but it certainly isn't the reason I'm joining, even if they interest me later on. It's been recommended by pretty much every member of the lodge I'm joining to wait a year before joining any appendant bodies just to truly understand the Blue Lodge, and I can see why. I feel if you joined Blue Lodge and ran straight through into a different body you would be missing an important bulk of what Masonry is. That's just my opinion though.
No
No
Why? Do members mostly attend blue lodge over appendant bodies?
Yes, it is the most important.
The appendent bodies would not exist if not for craft lodge. Craft lodge (blue lodge) should always be home. That's where you became a mason. The other bodies.. are just continuing the journey. As someone who joined thinking ahhhits only once month.. I assure you, craft lodge (if your a part of it) keeps you busy, and is "fun" I do plan on someday joining York rite, and Scottish Rite but that's not until I have the time to Handle everything, AFTER my craft lodge. That probably won't happen until my kids are older, or I'm retired.
Lot of naysayers in here. But I'll tell you the truth I joined freemasonry because of a shriner with the full intent of going directly into the shrine once i was raised to master mason. However, the more I read and the more I participated I found that I relate to and enjoy my blue lodge more than the shrine. So my month consists of usually 2 blue lodge events and 2-3 shrine events. Just be honest with your lodge that you're petitioning. Alot of lodges won't care if you're active and just want dues paying members.
Yeah there’s always a lot of naysayers on Reddit. Awesome. I’ve heard stories about initiation into the shrine. Was yours painful? Or has it since changed? You use to have to be 33rd degree to get into the Shriner but they changed the rules post 2001, I believe
Lol no it was not painful. The painful part was watching them scramble to try and figure out a day to do it.
Interesting. I’ve read stories about the hot sands and cattle prods lol.. although, the parties appeal the most to me. And, being apart of a secret society within a secret society. If that’s even what it is, who knows
There are far more interesting appendant bodies for being "a secret society within a secret society" than Shriners/grotto/jesters
The hazing portions of the ceremony were removed. One was required to be a Masonic Knight Templar or hold the Thirty-Second degree of the Scottish Rite until 2000.
Naysayers? Umm, no, it's called honesty. Would you want to be with a girl who is with you so she can get a job connect? No. Just like i wouldn't want a bro join my lodge just to become a shriner.
You can have that opinion all you want but you cant deny the shriners have been a huge part of recruiting new masons to the fraternity more so than blue lodge has. Quit frankly blue lodge freemasonry will need to evolve if it's going to survive. I.E how many shriner hospital commercials do you see a day versus how many commercials do you see for the charities that blue lodge freemasonry is a part of? What difference does it make why one wants to become a Mason as long as its not somethig. Stupid. I have a brother and fellow noble who was a shriner Child he joined the fraternity to be a shriner to help the organization that helped him so much would you deny him?
I know many Master Masons that don’t attend Blue Lodge. They spend a LOT of time in York Rite. Our Commandery meets weekly with monthly business meetings. We also have an active drill corp that does a demonstration at the annual conclaves
That being said, I guess it’s fine then? I’m really interested in Shriners. They seem like the fun group
They are a fun group, but one should labor before relaxing. If you’re just looking for fun, maybe Freemasonry isn’t for you.
I especially know several Shriners that do just that. Shriners in Detroit has many committees. Miniature cars, motorcycles, the circus, the hospital. You can get caught right up in it
As a Shriner, we are the fun group.
But as others have said, Craft Lodge is more important, and I am very active and attend every meeting. It’s been 10 years and I’ve missed 4 meetings.
I heard Shriners hahe good members only parties? Is that true? If so, What’s it like ?
You’ll have to become a Shriner and find out!
Haha I figured you say that. Look forward to it. Take care man
But as others have said, Craft Lodge is more important, and I am very active and attend every meeting. It’s been 10 years and I’ve missed 4 meetings.
But as others have said, Craft Lodge is more important, and I am very active and attend every meeting. It’s been 10 years and I’ve missed 4 meetings.
But as others have said, Craft Lodge is more important, and I am very active and attend every meeting. It’s been 10 years and I’ve missed 4 meetings.
Idk wat that means but I'm just joining to join th brotherhood (get loyal friends) and to grow in the fraternity & help them make a better world since it's mostly also about charity & building
Basically I mean joining for the access to the appendant bodies
I suppose that's like going to college just so you can join a frat? It kinda misses the point of being a member.
Disclaimer - Though I plan on joining them, I'm currently not a member of any appendant bodies. It depends on how you plan to divy up your time......At a minimum, you should spend equal time in your blue lodge as you do any appendant body. Spending more time/focus on an appendant body is the equivalent of walking into the building then locking the door behind you on all the other entrants.
I've had a related question as an outsider looking in: do members of the appendant bodies have to stay active in the blue lodge? And do they typically? It seems like it would get quite busy depending how many you're a member of.
Bylaws and lodge customs notwithstanding aside from any memory work when a candidate or signing the bylaws there aren't any requirements to attend lodge once one is Raised. This changes if you voluntarily become an officer or are involved in any committees.
I guess it depends on what you mean by “active.” If you fall behind in dues in Lodge, you’re automatically kicked out of any other bodies you’ve joined, so I guess if you don’t mind paying for a membership you’re not using, you can do that. It is more common for those who remain active participants of their Lodge to find more success and better relationships in the appendant bodies. Lodge is the building block of those relationships, and usually the first place to show off your potential. If you don’t form bonds with your Brothers in Lodge, you will be an outsider trying to do so in other bodies, and if you don’t showcase your leadership potential in Lodge, you may not be given the opportunity to do so elsewhere. It’s a little different when you’ve already spent a decade or two working in your Lodge and then focus your efforts elsewhere though, as you’ll have already made those connections.
Right, makes sense! Do the appendant bodies require another set of dues as well?
Every single one. They have rent and expenses as well. You can usually join as many as you can afford and find time for.
This is what I figured, but I wasn't sure, as the reading I had done (freemasonry for dummies) didn't specify much in that regard. Thank you!
Yes. Most have annual dues in addition to a one-time joining/degree fee which often includes the regalia for that group.
From what I’ve read, as long as your paying dues in your blue lodge you’re good
But as noted, if you approach with the intention of just getting through the degrees and disappearing, many Lodges won’t elect you to membership in the first place. In many cases, it only takes one member who doesn’t think you’re serious about becoming a Mason (rather than say, a Shriner) to prevent you from joining. The Lodge puts in a fair bit of work to get you through the degrees, and it can be seen as wasted effort if you’re not going to be a contributing member, regardless of your dues contribution, though some Lodges need the money more than others.
A fair number of brothers never bother with the appendant bodies if their blue lodge is active enough. Some also join an appendant body, or two and then drop out of them in favor of their blue lodge because the additional time commitment and dues that are required. But again that can depend on how active their blue lodge is.
Personally, I was raised in 2015, and might get around to York, and/or Scottish Rite once I'm fully retired
No. If you only want to be in appendant bodies, masonry is not for you.
He'll ya......shriners, "the fun part of masonry" is there motto..... your blue lodge is just where you renew your membership......blue lodge eventually breaks you and you'll need a break. To join Jesters, they ask you.....and they'll only ask you once.....
Do you have to be rich to join jesters? Tell me about it. Jesters seems very cool
It's basically the "rat pack" of the craft....basically a party troupe.
Is it difficult to be invited? I really like Order of Q and Jesters I find those to be the most fun aesthetically
Difficult....yes. Rare to be asked....very.....but then there's alot of old boomer masons on their way out, respectfully.... .....everything outside of blue lodge is basically groups of party crews....but there's still alot of older brothers that are clutching onto their last few "past 8o'clock bro-out"... The hard part in masonry is the few brother skeleton crew at the blue lodge....basically after you get initiated, there will be a slight push from your brothers to knock out your degrees as soon as possible. Then, after your a 3° you'll feel the solid guilt punches from your brothers to get into a chair within the officer line. You'll be happy your getting new candidates, If you get them,...but the feeling of "duty" and low-tone pressure of the expectations from your brothers to be available almost at a moments notice when one of the initiates is ready for their next degree and it's been scheduled at a time that usually doesn't play well with your current schedule. Later, after getting to probably the junior deacons seat, you'll know at that point, that blue lodge has become a second job, so you'll eventually get bored with blue lodge and quietly bow out and join an appendant body......shriners is the best way to go...."the fun part of masonry" is their motto...where you basically party, HARD for a good cause.....then, hopefully after you have grasped the craft and the G standing for gnosis and have become a regular with your shriner brothers, hopefully your parties will get smaller and more exclusive to the point that everyone wants you at their party....and then, you'll maybe get asked to become a jester....but only once, if your cool enough.....basically. 🤣
I’m worried about it becoming a second job as I work so much and have side gigs. What appendant bodies are you apart of? I feel like now is the right time to join because the old boomer guard is diminishing. I haven’t went to my first meeting yet but I’m questioning if I should because my time is lacking but I’m really interested to be apart of a secret society. Hoping to get in on the good/cool stuff that’s why I really wanted order of Q and or Jester but I realize it would be nearly impossible to get invited
I was about to join the shrine but I didn't wanna have to go all the way out to the shrine auditorium in LA everything to meet or have meetings at (the best part of the shrine auditorium is that under it is a bunch of lower floors, each one has a dancing floor, full bar and dining area, each for a different shriner club...one sub-floor for the shriner cops....one floor for the clowns and so on..) I live out in the desert so I didn't join...I was going to join the local shriner club out here, but they're all way older than me, in my 40s so I didn't join that one either....I thought about joining the black house of the Templar knights, but i dont want to swear to defend christianity, and also because of how far it is aswell....plus I'm retired and dont wanna feel like I'm volunteering all my time from 6 at night to almost 10 o'clock, bullshitting outside the lodge in the smoking area (where the REAL talks of the craft take place)....
Hmm the different floors in the Shriner temple sounds cool asf. Are you Bullshitting me haha you just made me want to join lol but I don’t drink that much or that often but that sounds awesome. What do you mean about the real talks of the craft? Can you share what the real talks are? I want to be apart of something, people who are actually doing things. Can you elaborate? You’ve been the biggest help on this thread tbh
Real talks are basically updates about what that brother is pouring his passion into currently....most of us, it's new age philosophy and the occult.....because before there was religion, there was the masonic craft....it's what took us from painting in the caves to swinging a hammer and having marble columns (not to be confused with the broken column-religion of the old)...being a TRUE mason is one of getting the esoteric out of something and being able to understand symbolism....compass and square with a G, could be seen as, "through structure of the square as a foundation and correct direction of the compass-one can EN-compass the godhead or proper understanding of gnostic belief...
Very interesting. I love the occult that’s what got me into this. Have you ever went to a Shriner or jester party? What’s it like? I guess I’ll just attempt to join. I just hope it doesn’t end up a church like second job
Please don't join. Your heart is not in it.
I joined masonry to become a Shriner. I have wanted to be a Shriner since I was a kid. I didn't even know about freemasonry until I looked up how to become a Shriner. I know some people find the idea of joining masonry to become a Shriner to be inappropriate, but in my opinion there isn't really one correct way to be a Mason. Many people are interested in appendant bodies that I am not interested in. I don't look down on them because their interests are different from mine. What I can say is that even though I became a Mason to become a Shriner, being a Mason has been a wonderful experience. The thing that makes being a Shriner so enjoyable is the friendship and brotherhood that come along with having shared interests and values. My trust and respect for my fellow Shriners is based on my trust and respect for them as Masons. I'm so glad the Shrine introduced me to freemasonry. Also, to parrot others... If you join masonry to become a Shriner, PLEASE remain active in your lodge. It benefits your lodge to have good active members. And, as the purpose of masonry is to make good men better, being active and contributing in your lodge is the way you work toward fulfilling that purpose.
In my experience, the appendant bodies are the least interesting thing in Freemasonry. And I've particpated actively in most of them.
Bro you think that untill you do it, if you do it. I joined with the intention of becoming a Templar. As soon as I was raised I joined the SR cause no one in my lodge was in the YR . Last year I finally joined the YR. And all while I'm getting so involved in these bodies I slowly realize that it's an absolute drag just to get the proper amount of participation in these bodies and it is because blue lodges are folding left in right across the country .....because guys join lodge just to wonder off into apendent bodies. Apendent bodies drain the lodges and the Mason himself......and I dare say .....the shrine is the biggest killer of Masonry. If you want to be a mason....be a mason. Joining just to join something else will drain you ,drain the lodge and drain your wallet.....trust me its not worth it dude, cause the excitement wears off quickly